It's prison break time and we were not prepared for how much this episode would emotionally wreck us!! "One way out!" "Burning up my life for a sunrise I'll never see!!"
It's funny how this show recontextualizes the original trilogy. It's because of people of questionable morals like Luthen, like Andor, or even Mon Mothma who has to compromise her ethics, who set the table so that a bunch of "young plucky heroes" like Luke, Han, and Leia can come in and save the day and remain morally unscathed for the most part. The Rebellion needed heroes like them to look up to, to idealize, and follow behind. But none of that would be possible without Luthen, Andor, Mon Mothma there to lay the groundwork so our original heroes can remain pristine.
Counterpoint: because the rebellion was built on morally dubious or downright criminal actions, the republic was very weak and morally dubious and therefore crumbled almost immediately (which has also happened in real life - see French revolution for instance).
"And what do you sacrifice?" "Calm. Kindness, kinship. Love. I've given up all chance at inner peace. I've made my mind a sunless place. I share my dreams with ghosts. I wake up every day to an equation I wrote 15 years ago from which there's only one conclusion; I'm damned for what I do. My anger, my ego, my unwillingness to yield, my...my eagerness to fight, they've set me on a path from which there is no escape. I yearned to be a savior against injustice without contemplating the cost and by the time I looked down, there was no longer any ground beneath my feet. What is my...what is my sacrifice? I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy, to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see. And the ego that started this fight will never have a mirror or an audience or the light of gratitude. So what do I sacrifice? Everything!"
I bet there are no hesitations written in the original script. When Luthen stops and repeats a word I'm sure that is all Stellan interpreting the lines.
@@Quotenwagnerianer I read an interview with the director of this episode. He said they got out a couple takes that he liked but didn’t love, so Stellan asked for his thoughts and after thinking about it for a moment the director said it sounds like a speech. He said Stellan just smiled and said thank you then delivered the take that was used in the show
I looked up Tony Gilroy's portfolio and saw that he wrote the Bourne Trilogy. That explains why Andor is so good at depicting political intrigue and secret operations.
God I love this show and its little details. Like when the elevator first opens up to show Luthen, Luthen is shrouded in poor lighting obscuring his face. If Lonny hadn't been alone, whoever was with him wouldn't have been able to get a positive ID on Luthen's face.
This series deserves an Emmy, IMO. Or, at the very least, more exposure and recognition. I'm glad to see that they've decided to syndicate it to other channels. An unusual move for Disney, probably because they also think that it deserves more attention and appreciation than it's gotten.
Ikr? Both Andy Serkis and Stellan Skarsgård gave a master class in voice acting in this episode. They both possess the power of conveying so much with just their words. It was a treat to get not only one amazing monologue but two. It’s a great time to be a SW fan!
@@LauraCourtneyette I don't know if you're a Doctor Who fan, but Stellan's monologue was so reminiscent of a speech Peter Capaldi gave in season 9, episode 8, The Zygon Inversion. Powerful stuff.
@@jthomann71 I’ve been wanting to watch Dr Who cuz I’m a big fan of Sci-fi and time travel fantasy. I’ll have to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion!
I’ve never heard the phrase “ow now brown cow” used in the context it was in this reaction and it has completely opened my eyes to how many other similar phrases can be used in equally unexpected circumstances
Not to be negative, but you may be missing the point of Mon Mothma's struggles with the analysis of "privilege". Mon Mothma is trapped by her commitments/efforts to fund the nascent Rebellion, and her love for her child. The behind-the-scenes struggle for a "better future" may cost Mon Mothma the better future of her own family. She is in a rock and a *VERY* hard place with Davo Sculdun, and the clock is ticking. And he knows it. Now that she has tipped her hand towards him and her desperation, he can play that to his advantage to have their families "merged" through an arranged marriage of their children. Which Davo will surely use to advance his social status, and for him to control "family" resources for years. In short, she is marrying her daughter off to a well connected, well financed mobster who will take advantage of her daughter, and any kids and grandkids that may arise in the future. Mon Mothma has no way out that she sees, it's either getting her family indebted to this mobster, or facing the wrath of the Empire.
Great reaction, girls! The music in this show always seems to know the perfect time to swell, doesn't it? Also Kino's ultimate fate being vague and undefined makes me think that somewhere out there Filoni is rubbing his hands and smirking with anticipation lol
I love this episode. Just when you're utterly reeling from the prison break and Kino's remarkable speech, the episode rolls straight into Luthiens absolutely sublime monologue. It's majestic. Starwars has *never* been this good. The writing, the acting, the set design, the score... I can't fathom how Disney accidentally made something so well crafted. I loved watching the looks on your two faces as the greatness of this TV show kept hitting you in waves 😁
Um. Existential vs the privilege of choice. Like most people, you seem to have missed that. Not surprised. You're probably privileged as well and what is inconvenience for you is life or death for someone else.
@@Iron-Bridge it is definitely a privilege, i never say it's not. yes, mon has a choice and she chose to be in the rebellion. i only mind when because she had this privilege, then her sacrifice is thoroughly discounted. also, i love that you assume you know everything about me.
@@vickylikesthisone thing I learned from serving in the military and even working in politics is everything is going to be compared because there is always someone who has sacrificed more and that needs to be acknowledged and respected.
I never thought of it that way, but you’re obviously right: Kino must have known all along that he would be stuck on that ledge. Powerful and heartbreaking. There’s an interview with Diego Luna where he gets low key upset with the interviewer for doubting whether Cassian would have tried to help Kino across the water, had he not been pushed off the ledge. He also hints that we might not have seen the last of Kino.
@@TheBenperri if you seen episode 11. Youll know he's an experienced warrior. His art dealer cover is 360 degrees away from who he truly is. I think he was part of the Empire forces. Probably a general. But got disillusioned. He's actually, the founder of the Rebellion. His 15 year old equation books that
You need people like Luthen to lay the groundwork so that later people like Mon, Hera, Kanan, Cassian, Ahsoka, Luke, Leia, etc can be the heroes to help the Rebellion cross the finish line and be ready in their most needed moment. It's almost playing into the western aspects of Star Wars. You need the lone gunslingers who come and give a town the opportunity to save itself even though they'll never be accepted or thanked. They're people who don't belong in times of peace and don't get to enjoy the things they helped to win.
I really enjoyed this episode, very good writing, I loved seeing it touch your hearts so passionately, I'll probably revisit your videos after the final episode to see your journey with the characters as it pulls you in! Be safe ladies, my fellow Rebels! :)
So the both of you briefly brought up a particular trope in your after-show discussion that I'm super glad you called out. The tendency to mishandle 'rebels' in media, whether deliberate or accidental on the side of the writing team, is one that I've only grown to loathe more and more whenever I see it pop up. It's all too common in video games and comics, the "if you use the weapons of your enemies, you're no better than them" rhetoric only growing more eye-rolling each time it rears its head, especially in the face of systems that refuse to change. (It's very shaky ground when it comes to superhero media, people love a villain and even more so when they're the underdog against the status quo. On the other hand, I heavily dislike the 'Murder Vigilante' archetype, it's a tricky thing to handle!) That said, it's even more aggravating when an in-story justified rebellion against an oppressive system often ends up being written as having a leader "who takes it too far" in their fight, reduced to kicking puppies so that the reader doesn't end up rooting for them. That isn't to say you can't have a revolutionary leader whose motivations aren't on the level, but often it feels like the fact that the writers made the leader an 'extremist' therefore nullifies the in-universe reason for the movement in the first place. The possibility of a second figurehead, one who will fight just as hard with maybe a little less disregard for life, is often just completely disregarded. Maybe at the end, the protagonist will feel bad about killing the 'villain', because maybe they did have some good points, but the abusive system is still in place. If there's any remnants of the movement, it's sanitized with the promise of things getting better in the future by protesting 'the right way'. It's emblematic of the issue that a fair few writers either don't understand what it is to struggle against an oppressive system or don't have the pull to be able to comment on it in their commissioned work. Really, I wish stories would just let us empathize with a rebellious leader, warts and all, without them needing to be killed or replaced. That's something I really dig about Lethen, that he admits to doing shady shit but that (at least so far) the writers on the show aren't tossing him in the garbage saying that "his methods go too far". Edit: Fixing up some typos and improper word usage. Added a little more now that I've thought on it a little!
The body posture dynamic in the scene with Mon, Tay, and Davo was interesting. Mon and Tay sat upright, rigid, in closed stances. Davo lounged, spread his arms, crossed his legs, drank his drink. He was in control of the conversation and knew it. I suspect he thought Mon was merely yet another politician sitting on a corrupt empire (as we've been many in the Republic). Her hands might have been clean, but there are probably many bodies interred with the foundation of the Mothma wealth.
I am raising a glass to you both, because I too have the problem of loving Cassian, who is such a problem Man to love. Argh! *drinks* I look forward to when you guys want Rogue One, so I can rewatch and weep. Diego Luna does such an excellent, understated job of making the thoughts through Andor's mind quite clear, and showing that he's smart and ruthless but still cares about people who hit his protective instincts. I'm only sorry he didn't get the Golden Globe he was nominated for, for this part. (Stupid Costner.) The epic, epic lines in this show-- I mean, real life is never this amazingly well-written, even more implausible than all the implausible action of 5000 guys breaking out. But that's what we're here for, excellent acting and incredible lines and then the fantastic images of men swimming away from that prison....
Malcom X and MLK Jr both contributed their parts to the movement. The simple reality of this universe is that it is not intrinsically "good". MLK gets the credit, but the truth is that he got what he got because of others' fear of groups like the Nation of Islam and the Black Panthers. Whether that fear was justified was irrelevant. It was believed, and that's all that was required. The carrot and the stick. Malcom and others like him held up the stick. MLK and his compatriots offered the carrot. The same is true of Ghandi, and really every supposedly "peaceful" uprising in history. They only work, when the alternative is unpalatable. And that is only ever true when the oppressors fully and truly fear the oppressed. They'll never understand the indecency of their oppression, and they'll never deal equitably even if they were to acknowledge the oppressed as equals. They don't even treat each other as equals. The oppressors can't be reasoned with. Not ever. The key, at the end, is whether or not a movement can transition away from the fear tactics it used to defeat its oppressors, and move on to build something better afterward. To-date, that has yet to happen even once. In all cases, all such movements have always either stalled, failed, or been corrupted from within.
As embarrassing as it is that the Empire doesn't know they have Cassian, There are thousands of planets to monitor. The same thing happens in real life all the time here...............
There aren't enough boots in the entire prison for even one floor's worth of prisoners. It's just not worth it to stop and put them on. They're not really going to help at this point. If they were to zap every floor in the place...less than a dozen men would survive on each floor. Easily enough for the guards to deal with then. The boots would just be a waste of time. Cassian knew that, and went straight for the command center instead.
The pseudo-sadist in me was really looking forward to this one (sorry). Poor Kino - he must have known he wasn't going to make it out but did anyway to help the rest.
I’ve been thinking about his sacrifice all week. Just the way his fear wasn’t about rebellion but about knowing he’d have to die to save his men. One way out, but not for him.
I'll be sure to watch "Under the Banner of Heaven" ... Denise is amazing, ever since I heard her voice multiple times a day through playing classic computer game "The Witcher 3", Then this Star Wars show was the only time I ever saw her for real - and I was AMAZED! Best villain since Darth Vader.
I would love to see you react to Severance on apple tv next. It's one of the most critically acclaimed shows this year, 97% on rotten tomatoes. It got 14 emmy nominations. It's smart and shocking and emotional. It would make a great reaction. At least try the pilot. I think you will be hooked after the first 6 minutes.
I think Cyril will kill Dedra in the last episode after Cassian gets away again, and he finds out she had him and didn't know it,- shattering the perfect picture of her beauty and competence in his mind.
Something I think is missed whenever discussions of morality get boiled down to oversimplistic catchy things such as "if you do what they do you're the same as them", is that not all "dirty tactics" fall under the same category. There can still be lines you won't cross on moral grounds, and there can still be things you won't do because that's what separates you from them, even if you push some other of your lines to some extreme or other - and more than just a difference in where they are, there can be a difference in where they would be were they not forced to be there (and indeed will be once they no longer are). So say you have here the example of 50 people sent to die so 1 important person can live. I can see a quality of person who might in a future time absent that necessity still perform the same kind of sacrifice because hey, they've done it before, heaven ain't getting any nearer (so to speak). Then, I can see a quality of person who would in that same future time say no, I would never do such a thing, even though I have done such a thing - I would now not do such a thing, and hopefully the things I've done will serve to ensure nobody need ever do such a thing again! With that sort of factor you garner a difference between the idea of needing a monster to hunt monsters, and the idea of a non-monster pushed to a temporarily monsterous state, not even necessarily to kill any monster, but only when the situation demands it. I think the vast majority of us without knowing it, however moralistic or not, would do an extraordinary thing if pushed to it, and a horrific thing as much as a daring one. However I think there's also probably a side to everyone where the concept of a definitive "no" does in fact exist, even in those situations. It's just that the hardest no and the "brittle" breakable no, don't need to both happen to achieve the end goal. Just need one. And the breakable no might even be "I let myself die" or "I allow the cause to fail in this instance"... but it need not necessarily nor only be that. Yeah I do think a spymaster is significantly distinct from a terrorist, even though they can obviously overlap, and even though I absolutely hate the concept of 'necessary secrets' and believe that if there were none then there would be no need for any. But I do get that you cannot necessarily achieve that end goal in one simple snap. Maybe a character like this, even agrees with me on that being what should be the end goal... but finds his position nevertheless needed. The thing about saying "you're trapped"... they'd be words that come easy from familiarity.
Ok ladies holidays are upon us. Here are some holiday movies I would love for you to watch. 1. Home Alone 2. Home Alone 2 lost in New York 3. Die Hard 2 4. Christmas Vacation
Gotta say, I thought there would be a bigger reaction to Mon Mothma selling off her daughter for the rebellion. EDIT: I've heard that this was a common thing on Game of Thrones. It's pretty odd on Star Wars though
you don't know how many of those guards were just guys trying to make a living, how many of them were conscripts even forced into service, they are not all bad guys.
I think, somewhat ironically, that Davo Sculdun is one of the few that Mon Mothma actually CAN trust. I'm sure he's someone willing to get his hands quite dirty, with zero remorse, when the need arises; but he's just too patient, too calm, too intelligent and discerning to just be a petty thug type. He's actually a lot like Luthen, really. Frankly, I'm willing to bet that he's already got his fingers into the rebellion here and there, and he suspects that's what Mon is up to as well, and he genuinely wants to help. After all, smugglers and such were something of a backbone of the rebellion, what with the black market military gear they were buying and so on. But he also sees an opportunity... Not to get one over on her, because the reality is that an arranged marriage of his son to her daughter doesn't actually benefit him much, if at all. If he's already handling Mon's money...what the fuck would he need the leverage of her daughter for? Yes, she's far more important to her than the money on a personal level, but that much money, for such an important cause as the rebellion, is a plenty big-enough bargaining chip for him to hold over her. He's not doing it for himself, or to somehow get one over on Mon Mothma. He's trying to do something good for his son. He's trying to get his son out of the life he's in. He doesn't want him "taking over the family business". He's going to help Mon stay safe...and in return, he wants her to keep his son safe. Davo Sculdun is ruthless, calculating, patient, resourceful...and a loving father. Remember, one of the core aspects of this show is that nobody is simply what they appear to be. Davo is no different in that respect.
