STONE OF SCONE FACTS | Stone of Destiny history | What is the coronation stone? | History Calling 

Did you look up John Gray ?

Not yet. Just having dinner! :-)

It be belongs to the land from whence it came xxx

To answer your question above...Well if I was Indiana Jones, I'd say it belongs in a museum. :) But, I'd say it should stay home in Scotland.

@@Moebian73 I am Canadian. The Stone should remain in Scotland.

Hey there! I came across your comment and I just had to reach out and say hi. Your perspective really caught my attention and I would love to get to know you better. Would you be interested in chatting sometime? Looking forward to hearing back from you!

I suppose one of the arguments used was that from 1603 onwards the British monarchs have been descended from the Scottish Stuarts and so could legitimately claim ownership.

@@HistoryCalling by that logic, any of the English Crown Jewels /regalia from 1603 onwards could be claimed by Scotland…🤷🏼‍♀️

@@HistoryCalling the Stuarts didn’t own the stone though…

@@janice506 If the tale is true it should be returned to the Jews if it was truly the stone Jacob had his dream on don't you think? This whole story is a tale to make the people believe they had a God given King or Queen. 🏴‍☠

@@ordyhorizonrivieredunord712 the flaw in this arguement is that it is of sandstone quarried in Perthshire and not a stone which it is said Jacob had a dream on. However it is Scottish property and belongs to the people of Scotland as an ancient artifact. As to the hteory that the Scots did not know that Edward Longshanks would steal the precious artifact, he had a history of stealing artifacts of significance including items from Ireland, a thorn from the supposed crown of thorns placed on Jesus's head and a peice of the supposed actual cross on which he died. So Edward Longshanks was a thief of ancient artifacts and the Scots knew this, as it was it took Edward Longshanks 4 months to travel to Scone after the battle so a similar piece of stone could easily have been substituted and the real one hidden away. Some of the information in this video are dubious as they are written by Englishmen who had a vested interest in telling history from the English point of view, which as many know does not often reflect the truth.

Yes, I think returns for coronations seems like a fair compromise.

I am sorry but at the end of the day it was stolen by a tyrant , and should have been given back no strings attached. 🤨

It was stolen by a tyrant and should never ever be returned to England. I am offended it is being used

@@jimdonaldson64 Well, I suppose James VI and I could have returned it, don’t you?

@@jimdonaldson64 I don’t disagree, I absolutely don’t believe strings were necessary or fair, I don’t personally know the details of the arrangement (like, who suggested it and how amicable the whole arrangement was) but I think that, after all this time, if both parties can agree on a compromise like this that’s enough to lay a situation to rest. These are things I think, ideally, would be good for the people of both places to vote on and the outcome be calculated that way, but in the absence of that I think this is okay. Particularly since the monarch whose coronation it is *is* also the monarch of Scotland as of this time. The ethics of *that* are an entirely different conversation, but as it stands I can understand why it was set up this way.

Thanks Jeanne-Marie and you're right; some things are much more important that their price-tag might suggest.

@@HistoryCalling I agree about your channel! I too am a history lover (or, as most who know me say-NERD). I’ve always had this strong historical fascination, and you make your channel come alive! Not only do you separate fact and fiction-you tell it in a way that even a novice can get pulled into your rhythmic voice and interesting stories!

Is it a class 1 or 2

Hello how're you doing?

Haha, thanks Natalie. Yes, I have no patience with people who spoil history for everyone because it's the only way they can think of to get attention for themselves.

Thank you. I'm glad I got it right. It bugs me when people mispronounce Northern Irish and Irish names too, but this one had my head spinning a little as there are so many options out there. I looked up a Scottish person saying it on RU-vid though.

@@HistoryCalling Are you Irish? I am a foreigner (Spaniard ) and I have noticed some peculiarities in your vowel system as opposed to the so called R.P. It is very slight ( for me, I'm not familiar with accents ), but I think it's there.

At least we still have a monarchy to crown.....

@@darransykes2540 Not sure if satire or no'. Difficult to tell these days.

@@CruzSanchezRipa She's definitely Irish, Northern Irish I think. Could be wrong on the latter, her accent is very soft.

Thanks Kathleen. Yes I think the compromise solution is the best one too. If it was a stone from the Giants' Causeway that had been nicked, I'd want it back in Northern Ireland for instance. Yes, those thieves really were morons, as are those who applaud them. I have no time for people like that.

The English took it, we took it back. The English stole everything they could get their hands on including countries! It was taken back and a copy returned by my friend. Scotland is NOT the same country.

Sad, but probably true. One of Egypt's mummies has even ended up here in the Ulster Museum.

@@HistoryCalling And a damn site more in the USA

Oh yes, that's on purpose. Want to get everyone in the mood :-)

If it was the actual stone it wouldn't be broken The earliest description of that stone sounds nothing like the stank cover Charlie will be sitting on😄

Hi AustensGirl love that🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹

You're not Irish

Do you dislike all Catholics? Or just Irish catholics. What about an American one? Just curious.

The stone was cracked when one of the suffregettes placed a nail bomb at the coronation chair which also damaged the chair. This common sandstone using the real stone of Destiny, Alexander II seals has the correct on it. The historical description was it was black, either a meteorite basalt or black granite and was intricately carved

Hey there! I came across your comment and I just had to reach out and say hi. Your perspective really caught my attention and I would love to get to know you better. Would you be interested in chatting sometime? Looking forward to hearing back from you!

@acole56 Totally 💯 % agree with you on the Elizabeth I and Queen Mary of Scots ordeal 😊!

Thank you. Yes, I have no time for people who destroy history. There are so many things we'd know or have now if earlier generations had acted differently (Cromwell destroying the English crown jewels springs to mind, as do all the times I've read about people stealing body parts from famous dead people).

It’s now in New York

@@HistoryCalling - Please don’t get me started on Oliver Cromwell 🤦🏼‍♀️😠. A regicide that tried to commit genocide of the Irish people. Horrendous monster.

@@shayakasharon 🤣 Is it doing a 'world tour'

Yes, I think that's the way the world is slowly moving now. I wonder how much longer all those Egyptian mummies in foreign museums will stay there?

Absolutely agree, the Australian Aborigines must be looking forward to getting their lands back at some point too.

Except in cases where the artefacts really cannot be looked after? War condition etc?

@@manuelhung7571 Just as aboriginal peoples all over the world would like that, but it's unlikely to ever happen.

@@HistoryCalling That's exactly what I was going to say. I bet theres loads of stuff stolen over the centuries and hidden away at the British Museum... Never mind what's being hidden at the Vattican...

Yes, this is true. We (meaning here in the UK) have gathered up a lot that isn't ours and I suspect much of it is going to have to go back to its country of origin over the next few decades. That certainly seems to be the way the wind is blowing.

Yes, I think this seems like the best compromise too.

Fundamentally disagree particularly since most Scots are now anti-monarchy.

Hello caroline, how are you doing?

Yes, I think it's the best compromise they could have come up with too and you can actually get to see it much closer up in Edinburgh Castle (like literally a few inches away) and in better detail than you could if it was still in the coronation chair.

Yes, I understand what you mean. You can certainly see their story when you look at them.

Eric it is only the actual Stone of Scone that comes from Scotland not the wooden Throne.

@@carolmckellar2791 I thought the stone belonged to India or Africa or came from Mars.

Yes, I think you're correct. It's terrible how indigenous/first nation communities have been treated all over the world by (usually) European immigrants.

Thanks Hillery. That's very kind of you to say. I'm glad you enjoyed hearing about the stone.

Haha, never say in Scotland that they're governed by England. :-)

@@HistoryCalling would they prefer being called a British annex?

@@princessjesstarca More like a colony, but with our own Parliament, albeit that our Government is severely restricted in what it can overlook. The fact is that the Scottish Parliament was never disbanded, but put in abeyance. That is why it was reopened.

England doesn't govern Scotland or anyone else. They are sovereign. If anything it's England that loses out. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales send MP's to Westminster but ALSO send MP's to their own parliaments/assemblies. They have 2 MP's. A luxury that the English don't have.

@@AV-fo5de gotcha! Thank you for explaining it to me! I’m aware of general history, but not the nuances that go with.

Thanks Bev. I suppose from the monarch's point of view, they're now the King or Queen of Scotland too so they have a good claim to owning it and of course Elizabeth II was half Scottish and Charles a quarter, so I guess that helps. Yes, the coronation is going to be in the middle of the night for you in Colorado (which I believe is where Boulder is off the top of my head?)

@@HistoryCalling Yes, it's Boulder, Colorado. I've gotten up before, but I was younger then. In fact I bought my first TV back 1973 so I could watch the Princess Royal's wedding in my bedroom and not disturb the rest of the family. Yikes! Just saw that the actual ceremony starts at 3 am my time and that's not counting the procession. That's more like never going to bed territory.

@@bevinboulder5039 I'm down the turnpike from you, in Denver. The struggle is real! I'm setting the DVR just in case I snooze too late on the day. 🙂

In Scotland, Edward is NOT looked upon as benevolent. His actions against the Scottish people. Being Invited is an apologetic comment . He had imposed many things upon the Scottish people and appointed his own vassal as "King". The monks knew that he was advancing on Scone and hurriedly had a stone cut out of the local sandstone, hiding the real stone. The original was kept hidden. It was reported to be of basalt, and carved with some images. Several ancient organisations are said to have preserved it - and still protect it.

The correct announciation is "Scoon" and not Scone that is a baked item consumed with jam and cream. As a Scot from Angus and having been to Scone many a time it is quite rude to refer to it as a tea cake, that would be like calling Winchester Whichester

Also Edward Longshanks was a brutal king to the Scots as have the many English kings that followed. His benevolence only ran to his own personage.

Haha, thank you and I'm glad I made you laugh. History is sometimes funny (if you have the right perspective at least).

Thanks Sabine and I'm flattered that you would show my video to your students :-)

Yes Jeff I read that too and that each Abbot at each monastery used a special stone seat for important official duties at times. Dont exactly know how true this was though.

It's still a fun story though, even if don't think it's true :-)

Thanks Stephen. Yes, the current compromise seems like the best way.

Thanks Nancy :-)

Thanks Sharon. I'm a good mix of Scottish and Irish myself, with a little bit of English and Welsh too, so I'm always invested in doing good research for my various countries (not that I throw my standards to the wind when looking at other countries of course).

Thanks Howard. Yes, I was so irritated when I saw how many people have glorified those thieves that I felt like I just had to point out how stupid and disrespectful they truly are/were. I'd have put them in prison.

@@HistoryCalling personally I would have done the same thing. Their collective butts should’ve been whipped up and booted into shape in a very long prison sentence. They desecrated several items of national importance and heritage. Their names should have been mud for their lifetimes.

@@HistoryCalling They were patriots of Scotland and demonstrated that whatever the English stole from Scotland would be returned to Scotland.Yes they were heroes God bless them.

You're very welcome :-)

Yes, it is a little surprising to me too that there's no coronation in Scotland, but I suppose it's not a separate kingdom any more and you could argue that treating it as such might encourage the independence movement. On the other hand, you could also argue that giving it a more prominent role in ceremonies like the coronation would further solidify it as part of the UK. It's probably one of those unwinable arguments.

Well as a Scot I do care as it’s actually ours not Englands .

Haha, thank you. Hope you enjoyed it :-)

It was returned on St. Andrew's Day, 1996.

You can't really swear without endangering monetisation, so I had to get creative :-)

@@HistoryCalling 🤣

Thanks Monica. I didn't know that much about it either, but it certainly has a great story.

Haha, you can write a letter to the govt. suggesting it, but I don't think the idea will fly :-)

@@HistoryCalling Indeed. We have to pay almost twice as much for electricity as Londoners do-and we produce most of it! It's mostly clean energy too.

@@chrisbanks6659 😂😂😂

She should have been Elizabeth I in Scotland, as we never had an Elizabeth before. England did.

Quite right. She was just Queen Elizabeth in Scotland. If I started talking about Elizabeth I though, I think people would get seriously confused.

Well I guess she was descended from the monarchs of Scotland as well though, so she could claim ownership in that way. Plus, she was half Scottish through her mother if that helps.

Timea I wouldnt say it's loaning really in my opinion we share The Stone, it usually resides in Scotland. It only goes down south to Westminster Abbey at Coronation times. Since Queen Elizabeth and The New King are descended from The Stuart Kings and Queens of old it's fine by me. It is nice to see others interested in the history of Scotland 😊

Yes, I think we have the best compromise now. It'll only be in England for a matter of days every few decades so that's surely not too objectionable to the Scots, especially as it gives the coronation a very prominent Scottish element too.

You're very welcome. Thank you for watching :-)

I know. It makes my blood boil when I see historical objects which are important to so many treated so badly. I think the loaning system in place now seems like the fairest approach as well.

What an interesting idea. I don't know if I could make a whole video on that, but perhaps I can work a description of it into another video?

Thanks Frances :-)

If it was up to me the stone would never be in England again & why should it after they’d had it for hundreds of years why wasn’t it returned after unification..?

Thanks Michelle. Glad you enjoyed hearing about the stone. Have a lovely weekend :-)

That would have been so interesting to see (PS Edinburgh is just beautiful. I'm jealous you got to live there. I always enjoy my visits to the city).

Hmm, if that happened the monarch could be crowned in Scotland too. They are descended from the House of Stuart, so have a good claim on the Stone as their property. I'm slowly working my way around to the Anglo-Saxons :-)

Excellent. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I enjoyed making it as it was something new for me as well.

Very true. I think the Marbles in the British Museum are going to end up back in Greece for the same reason.

Thanks David. Have a lovely weekend. :-)

Thank you so much :-) I hope you continue to enjoy them.

Thanks Mark :-)

Thanks Patricia. I'll have to bring some British scones too and then we can compare them :-)

@@HistoryCalling Nothing to do, most probably. But the experience would be definitely interesting 😂

Thanks James. Yes, it seems like the best compromise to me too.

I agree that the English had no rightful claim on it up to 1603, but all monarchs since then have been descended from the Scottish Stuart family, so I would be inclined to support their ownership of it today. It helps that Elizabeth II was half Scottish too and Charles III is a quarter (through the Queen Mother).

@@HistoryCalling But for quite some time, weren't the monarchs of Britain German and not English or Scottish at all? I understand the more recent ones have Scottish ancestry, but not so for a long time.

I did not. I'll have to look him up :-)

​@@HistoryCalling I think it's funny how the last American revolutionary veteran is name Grey;the same last name of queen Jane grey.

My thoughts exactly and that's how you know you have a good compromise.

Thanks Ann. I'm a bit of a sucker for the material objects of history myself, but each to their own. I think there's also a lot to be said for not getting so caught up in material possessions as well.

@@HistoryCalling I really love examining the significance of the objects and I deeply appreciate your enormous skill in analyzing them, but I suppose I'm rather detached because I've learned to let go in my own life. That said, I actually have a collection of those cool replica spoons you can buy at the English Heritage sites, including a copy of the one used for the chrism at coronations, so I'm not entirely disconnected from the symbolism!

Brexit was about constitutional matters. It was set up by Jean Monet to be run by elites for elites. It's merely a cartel. In '75 in the Referendum to stay in or not, a Community bureaucrat deplored it being held because it was "Too important to be left to housewives". That is their total arrogance. Unelected judges have power over elected politicians. Can you imagine the US not being able to vote for the Senate or President? Of course not but that is what pertains in the EU. The only two bodies with legislative initiative, able to enact laws, are the EU Council and the EU Commission. They are bureaucrats without public elections. It's not an oversight it was planned that way. The public are not allowed to vote for candidates to be the President of the Council and the President of the Commission. The latter is chosen via the Spitzenkandidat process. Like most EU decisions, behind closed doors. The public are held at arms length. They are only able to vote for the EU Parliament which is weak having no legislative initiative and scrutinizes legislation from the other two bodies. It is alien to the Anglosphere. As is the judicial system. The English Common Law, 12 person juries, is used in around 85 countries. The English Parliament dates in it's present form to around 1265 and is the mother of parliaments elsewhere. The politicians who joined admitted they never read the small print and thought they were joining a trading-bloc. What trading-bloc anywhere else in the world demands a share of your fish? UK was just another star on someone else's flag. 1 0f 28. It wasn't constitutional. Now only two countries, Germany and France, have any real power the others effectively being vassal states. The eurozone is basically the deutschesmarkzone. The others have given up their financial independance to Frankfurt nominally but really Berlin. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales send MP's to Westminster but they send another MP to their own parliaments or assemblies, when they're sitting. The English have no such luxury as a parliament or assembly of it's own. Scotland was not forced into a union with the English. Quite the contrary. They embarked on a Scottish empire - the Darian Scheme. It was a disaster. They chose a malarial swamp in Panama. Sadly many people passed-away. Scotland was bankrupt. England stepped in to pay their bills. They united the parliaments in Westminster, Scotland got to keep it's own Church, it's own Education System and it's own Legal System. Scotland got an excellent deal. They have even got their Edinburgh parliament back. Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales currently lose money and are subsidised by England. Scotland loses £15 billion p.a. For the record the entry maximum for the EU is a 3% Debt to GDP ratio. Scotland is running 7% and currently wouldn't qualify. We have heard much from nationalists elsewhere, what they want etc. They take up all the bandwidth. Rarely listened to is what the English nationalists want. Brexit was the first time their voice was heard. They are here to stay. Sovereignty matters. For nostalgic reasons I prefer the U. K. as a Union. If other countries want to leave that is their choice and English tax-payers will be the biggest gainers. Moreover if anyone is given an independance referendum it should be the English. The Scottish have already had one and made a mess of it.

You're welcome. Thanks for watching and commenting. :-)

You're welcome. It's certainly an interesting story.

Statute of limitations?

Yes, I think we have the best compromise now as well.

Haha, yes, I'm definitely guilty of that. I had to tone down my annoyance at that actually (for RU-vid). :-)

I agree. Edward should have left it where it was (which I say as someone with both Scottish and English ancestry and of course a bit dollop of Irish and a little bit of Welsh - basically I'm a British Isles mongrel). 😅

@@HistoryCalling we have that in common HC I'm part Irish part Welsh and English to could say I'm a mongrel to. 😊😊

Haha, I'm glad to get a break from the Tudors too, though those videos do tend to do better than the others which is why I have to keep going back there. Gotta keep my income up :-)

😄

Hello how're you doing?

Thanks Joe :-)

Thank you. Like yourself, I actually didn't know that much about the Stone when I started (I didn't think the video would be this long for instance). It's a fascinating tale though.