Stop Defending Modern Players! [SH 110] 

That Ken player rage quitting was comedic gold timing.

My sentiment is modern is worse for pros generally, and is better for average sf players because of easier execution. Though instant supers are broken

I love modern controls, not because I use them, I still use classic, I love them because it gives my friends easier access to the game. They aren't serious players, they are just looking for casual fun.

The best use I had for modern players was they force you to stay on the ground. I got less scrubby learning to beat modern players because you can't jump on them until you really build up their mental stack because basically if you, on classic, could push jab before the opponent lands a modern player can DP or ever anti-air super you. It makes you develop your ground game.

You are 100% right Jimmy, but it is very frustrating to play against them tho xD those one button invicible supers are not fun to eat lol

The thing I noticed about modern players is that they don't understand neutral and are itching to use special attacks. Like a modern Lily, she ALWAYS goes for the command grab setup, DP everytime

I think modern is fine apart from the supers tbh. I think the supers should all need one qcf or qcb motion. This way modern serves as an entryway into actually using motion inputs and classic controls

If you are losing to one button DPs stop jumping and play the ground game first, then you can try jumping. We've had one button anti air since the start and people still stand there and just block.

He's in the middle of the rant and there's still ppl coping in the chat. Modern isn't cheating, if u lost the guy was better than you.

the Ken player rage quitting at the perfect time is pure gold

The thing most people dont know about modern. You only lose 20% damage IF you use easy input, if you do manual its 100% damage. Also there are hidden buttons, like modern guile his medium button is his MK, but if you hold the auto combo button press MK, it will be the MP, so he actually does have his both medium buttons, so he didnt lose half of buttons. And auto combo if you stop before super it does 100% damage also. Just test with guile hold auto button +heavy button he will do medium into hp into OD sonic boom for 2k damage, classic guile doing this combo does 2k damage also.

One button supers and DP is definitely an advantage. You can't tell me otherwise 😤 With that being said, obviously it has some disadvantages.

My only issue is how fast an instant their special are compared to the 1-2 seconds i would need to input mine. Boils down to the reaction part for me.

5:00 the entire 5 minutes is him defending this modern player then he does this 🤣 just wow

For me, agreed with other comments, M players forces you to stay on the ground. But I discovered some trick to bait their DP by jump in early when they knock down or 50/50 cross cut. They tend to do DP too late and get blocked because I’m already on the ground. So, nature of M players are that they are confident in their DPs but some are not accurate in timing and range.

Modern controls has been a blessing for me, since I used to be a professional sumo wrestler my left wrist got seriously fucked up during a competition which makes using the joystick pretty uncomfortable over long periods of time. I still like to use classics time to time, but generally not having to use motion inputs constantly has been much appreciated. Granted i'm mostly using modern because it's physically painful to use classic over extended periods of time, so it might be a bit different then most who use it.

I am a new player in SF6. And because I am very busy at work, I only play for leisure, and I do not use a joystick but a computer keyboard to play, so the modern mode has become my only choice. After all, the keyboard is small. If i use the classic mode,my hand will be very painful, and my reaction is not that fast, so the modern mode is relatively friendly to me to beginging the game. To be honest, the way i climb to mr 1700 as modern zaingeif,I also hate most of the modern players I encounter. Many of them are relying on using DI or OD. , I am a player who likes footsies, so I have to fight back slowly and patiently.sometimes its annoying,but theres still a lot of modern players that are really good tho

3:39 here's why, when someone beats you when you see they are using a mode or controls that actively covers their weakness, this will make the player using C controls angry because they know for a fact that had then been on a full 50/50 field in terms of controls odds would have been slightly more in their favor. This in turns add a layor of doubt that the loss was well earned. This also means some people shift up their playstyle on Site of a M player because fighting a M player isn't the same for most C players because most people playing any fighting game AREN'T at a pro level and for those who want to get to a pro level by training using the lab and rank, Losing to a M player hardly if not NEVER feels good. A non-video game Example is this, Go bowling and play someone for money, You have to blow normally, the other person can pick which rail he wants up but has to switch what rail stays up (so left then right then left again as an example) yes he can still get a gutter ball, yes he can still lose but if the skill gap is basically not there and you lose. Things start to look ALOT Different, and yes in that bowling example, you could have walked away and said no, in ranked we get what we get.

2 equally gifted players playing the same number of hours of SF on different control schemes - the modern player will be ahead for like at least a thousand hours. We know it's not the best at the highest level, but for 95%+ of the playerbase it is IMO

The M stand for Make believe

Just because something is perceived as easier. Doesn't mean that everybody's gonna switch over. Because you see that in everyday life. There are people that do things the same way for 50 years. Even though there is an easier and faster way to do it. They choose to do it that way because they are more used to doing it that way. They feel more comfortable again. Why would they all of a sudden? Learn a brand new way of doing things. If they're already comfortable with the means that gets them towards success. Now that doesn't mean that people that can come in and learn modern controls and Can't be more successful at it than other people. You just have to understand those people are just that damn good. But that doesn't mean that modern controls are superior as well. Remember, it's not the car. It's the driver. You can give anybody a gun, but not everybody can shoot something 50 to a 100 yd away. You see what I'm saying. Don't be surprised if in the near future. The Evo finals or the grand finals are littered with modern controllers. And I guarantee only then will they say. Maybe it might be unfair advantage. Now the fact that I just went online and got my ass whipped by a Jamie player using modern controllers. Might have something to do with my opinion at this current moment.But I still think it is a little cheap It's not anything

That ragequit was so funny lmao

as a Modern control player, not everyone is that stupid

Isn’t modern just MvC button style set up?

Complaining about Modern a year into the game is insane. If one button DPs/supers, one direction charge inputs, and largely suboptimal autocombos were so overpowered, it would be over represented in all levels of play.

If modern wasn't invented on sf 6 I wouldnt bought the game

complaining about modern in probably the biggest example of skill issue

That ken was hilarious KJLASHHJKSADFSA

My thoughts on modern: Modern is pretty fair because you get less damage out of it and some options are limited. You also still need some execution to do moves that are locked behind inputs like Jamie’s swagger step. It allows you to focus more on footsies and less on execution with the disadvantage of less damage.

Its almost like you dont want people to enjoy the game together. I say that because not everybodys good at fighting games let alone SF6. Ill use myself as an example. I(who bought the game and got decent enough to string a combo together) was playing with a friend of mine who used to enjoy SF but fell off and hasnt played since 2T, and at first he was getting frustrated because things werent "working" and felt he didnt know enough to keep up. Rather than suggest the always enforced, "get gud" mentality, i suggested there was modern with simplifies it down and makes it a little easier to enjoy. You know what? He enjoyed it. My wife and niece played together on modern(mind you they both have NEVER played a fighting game) and they were having fun. I say all that to say this: sometimes its just about enjoying the game. Not everybody wants to go pro and take the time to learn combos, frame rate, whiffing, etc... sometimes they just wanna pick up a game and enjoy it. Thats what modern is for.

Jimmy is absolutly right, modern is not good at all at high levels, but for the lower ranks, up to master it's totally fine. I've been playing modern ken for a bit cause my execution is TRASH never been able to do constant FADC combos back in 4 for exemple and I've trained a lot! But since I've been able to bring ken up to master, it was easier than I thought, cause up to diamond 3/4 it's rabbit land, players only want to either drive rush or jump on you, my response for both options was always to OD DP, then start offense. I have had some players rage quit on me on the way, or not rematch, both modern and classic. I've a ton of trouble with above 1600 MR masters though, but for lower than that I would say modern is good enough, classic is better if you have the execution :p

1 button dp is an advantage

I mean, for high level, I guess modern doesn't really matter, but for lower levels, damn that shit's annoying. It's like I'm playing the lottery 💀

Nothing triggers you geeks more than that orange M 😂

1:40 "Is it easier to win with controls, yes or no" Yes. Full stop. "Were do you see this? You see it in tournaments" No. 99% of the player base is not playing on tournaments. And 90% of the player base is not pro level masters. Stop using the "tournaments" and "pro" yardstick to measure this in. On lower levels, where NORMAL people play, you are dealing with someone that has an input accuracy higher than pros at 100% consistency, instant input speed faster than pros,, there is not even buffering for moves to try and increase your reaction time by seeing their input, and their reaction times due to thee reasons are also decreased thus faster than they would be. They also have a MUCH smaller mental stack. They have access to less moves, but become much more flowcharty and this is an easier gameplan. You are taking away from them half the skill needed to play the game. They don't need to worry about dropping inputs, they don't need to worry about input speed, and they don't need to worry about inputs period for their reaction time. They also need to worry about less moves. Their practice goes into their gameplan and their gameplan alone. Whilst other players are practicing a whole bunch of other stuff, Modern control players are getting a shortcut. At which point I really don't give a sht if on pro level they hit a wall because they reach a point where the other player has a pro level reaction time, input consitency and speed, AND all the tools of the character. On high level their advantage is smaller and smaller. On lower levels their advantage is clear. I don't see why I need to be fighting someone on lower levels that can input a lvl 3 super art so fast it can connect between a combo if I drop it by simply spamming a single button. Not even pros can do that kind of sht. Auto combos are the icing on the cake. If they find a means to punish you they have a free "mash these buttons" combo and job done. Meanwhile every classic control player before they even build muscle memory needs to think "oh fk, I got a punish, I need to capitalise on it" and until they manage to do this fk it up over and over. On which dimention are these advantages NOT important? On which plane of existence? Honesty, I give two shts on pro level how much modern controls suck. You are telling me I need to reach pro level to never have to come across a modern player that I feel is cheesing. No thanks. How about I stay on my skill level that I am enjoying, and play against people of equal skill. EQUAL skill. Me having to deal with double the work to do the same thing as you is NOT equal skill. Modern Controls are a great and amazing addition to the game. No exageration. I love them. It is such an intuitive way to get newcomers to play the game in a way that doesn't totally break the game. Allows for input commands as well to slowly learn the ropes, and honestly its amazing. They should NOT get rid of Modern Controlls. However, they do not belong in ranked. Full stop. Ranked is a level playing field. The more ways you introduce to play ranked the less level that playing field is. You are trying to asymmetrically create advantages and disadvantages. Modern controls belong in Battle Hub, Custom Lobbies and Casual Matches. Not ranked. And pointing out that you just wrecked a Modern Ken saying "is he hard?" means fk all. You do the same to classic players too. lol. I wreck most Modern Players as well. And? Its not until you come across someone that is taking proper advantage of the insta-spam and realise how unbalanced this is for ranked. How about you go up against a Ken with your level of skill on Modern. I would say the match could go both ways, and EVEN on your level were modern control advantages are mitigated. When you reach higher levels Modern Controls become less and less dominating, because first of all they become more and more predictable. Till you get to that point though they are a cancer you need to push through. And again, I have won 90% of my matches vs modern on lower levels. Before some cavetroll jumps around with "git gud"... I win mate, that is good enough. Its still cheesy idiotic gameplay. The fact I need to even change up my playstyle completely and act as if I am playing a different game is bad on its own. There no longer is a "lets see if we can throw this persons cool off so they can drop moves" for example. That interaction is completely gone. I play as if I am playing AI at that point. "Ok, don't jump EVER because they have single button anti air that is almost as bad as CPU reading you"... So much for trying to test their skill if they can pull a fast last second anti air. A completely different game. Again, leave MC in Casual Matches and everything else, its a great addition. Don't allow it in Ranked though. The decision to do this alone is absurd.

Capcom only needs to make an additional filter where we can choose to match with modern player or not in ranked or quick match. Problem solved.

Tourney players aren't playing their first Street Fighter. They already play classic at such a high level that to switch to a new control scheme with easier reactions at the expense of all their muscle memory isn't particularly viable. Moderns are using training wheels to accomplish techniques and reactions that classic players can't pull out as easily because we refuse to relearn the whole game. Any modern who tries to tell you it's not an advantage is either lying or an idiot, because they either are benefiting from it (an advantage) or they aren't and they use it anyway (like an idiot). Either way they get my absolute distain all the disrespect.

Stop complaining about Modern guys… come on! everybody here saw how a Modern player rage quits his match vs Jimmy… this is a proof that if you lose a match is because the other player is better than you… that’s it..! just continue playing, practice and improve your game.. me included.

moderne play is a poison

11:12 I didn’t know you could do that

Modern players rage quit and if they don’t rage quit they never rematch. Modern players are people that like to take shortcuts

Its crazy how people are trashing and swearing off of Modern controls, but can't hold a candle to Haitani who's got master rank on both Modern and Classical controls on all the characters: and I discovered that during Evo last year. The top tier competitors have a grasp of the controls to know what to expect. Meanwhile, you all are literally neutering your match-up knowledge because you think modern controls are a plague. Its just another control scheme. It loses buttons and has a 20% debuff on easy specials and supers. It has its own mini game built in that's fun to figure out and play. Stop being sticks in the mud and enjoy the game. Sheesh! Btw, I can play both Modern and Classic and loving it! 😂

M players on every level have one significant advantage, the speed it takes to do the moves. In a projectile war the M player will always have the edge

Nah Jimmy you wrong. 1- If one button reactions weren't OP then Capcom wouldn't balance it by nerfing damage and removing options. 2- judging something's strength by how it is used by the absolute best is like judging the economy's health by how well the 1%ers or the stock market are doing

So you think that because you have to move the stick (no Diddy) in a million directions just to do one move makes you good? Modern players are people who don’t like to over complicate things, or they are new to this type of game. I play modern myself but I’m slowly easing over to classic . Because I play with regular controls on tekken( not the SS).

honestly that looks like an honest disconnect

I want to give my perspective as a modern control player. This is my first ever street fighter, and as a full mortal kombat player I personally find the inputs of street fighter incredibly tricky. Im VERY slowly learning the inputs of this game but in the meantime i’ll stay in Modern. Is modern easier for me? Yes, it is from my experience easier. I know i didn’t explain much, but what im trying to say is that modern is probably picked up mostly by newcomers to street fighter, i hope.

modern controls are easier and advantaged at almost every level of play besides the very top level. Top level play isn't the only thing that matters.

I think what people are really misunderstanding is that making it easier to combo and having instant supers is only just part of the main problem. I think all the hate for M controls mostly comes from the fact that someone who hasn't played Street Fighter in their life can easily match up to C control players who have been practicing for months to years on end. It's basically the same situation BF4 had with the Phantom Bow. Players did the looonnggggg easter egg to unlock it and out of no where Dice decided to just give it away to be unlocked instantly by picking the bow up in a certain game mode. It's like one big giant slap to the face, me personally I don't care if people choose M controls or not.....my thing is that it should've been optional to only match up with other C control users in ranked if that's what you want, only natural or hard earned skilled players having the honor to hand you your L.

SF6 is my first street fighter. I play Tekken with a stick but 6 attack buttons is too much for my pinky so I use a controller with modern on SF6, I've made it to Plat with Jamie.

I mean regardless if ppl want to play modern they can it’s in the game for a reason, is neither a disadvantage or and advantage , some ppl can’t adapt to classic gameplay so capcom placed it for a reason. Play the game and if you lose to a modern player is cause he defiantly know his stuff as a modern player.

I’m defending classic players with my life, I’m 14, street fighter is my favorite game of all time, and this is my first time ever being somewhat good at it, I tried classic controls one time, almost burnt the skin off my fingers trying to do akuma flying gohadoken

1 button spezial anti air , Modern players is for scrubs

Dude im a modern player just cause i have a controller to play with and its not easy M controls dont have damage in them like classic so we have to hit twice as hard

Modern is cancer takes no skill to press one button and then on top of it they have no chance for input error doing moves or specials which is bullshit.

I genuinely hate the word "modern" these days.

Modern Zangief I have to say is a lot of fun. I run Modern Zangief when I'm just BSing and want to have fun, I run Classic Akuma when i'm actually trying to compete and get better.

it's the face ken makes the moment he gets hit in the gut and the player rage quits at the same time 🤣🤣😆😆🤣🤣🤣

5:02 Dude the switch up at this point

Modern players can dp and super easier of course they have an advantage over guys in ranked. Top players are cracked enough to react and input like it’s modern.

I think that the modern controls are good since if you are a good player you can say anything, and it also helps new people who arrive. I think we simply have to update ourselves and that's it.

Modern is good when you're beginning because you can easily throw supers into your game. I think the switch happens when you start wanting to pull off more complex combos that really do need the buttons to offer more variety.

As a modern controls user with cerebral palsy, I can definitely say that they help because certain characters Soopers are a nightmare to input cough cough Guile cough cough, also it's a lot easier on my muscles, I don't feel like I want to take a nap after every fight

I don't rematch modern. I'm not a pro and I'm playing at a disadvantage fighting someone with instant supers and 100% accuracy on all anti airs and cross cuts. I don't care what people think.

So the answer is Git Gud .... Cries when Beat em Up Games are about to die and have massive Player Drops.... Intelligence at its best People !

This guy KAM does this regualary, i played this fuck 2 times now and he ragequit BOTH thoose times when we fought eachother. He cant probally help him self tho since hes both Modern and a Ken player : )

I play both because I see genuine potential with modern, but classic is more fun ngl.

You telling me instant dps and Ca are not a clear advantage????

People here seem to forget that there are modern players with actual real life issues with their hands, and modern controls helps them play the game and have fun, just like we who do not have issues with our hands (yet and god forbid we ever do).

Sometime kindness is nothing but a slap on the face lmao

Dhalsim players are bottom of humanity, worse then modern control ragequitters

Does it matter which one? It's a fight, so strategy is the key, right?

I totaly agree, modern controls are bulshit. No honor at all

The fact that folks are still debating whether or not modern players have an advantage should be enough to conclude that there’s still no clear answer lol. If you feel strongly one way or the other, you’re biased because of your personal experience. End of debate. We’re all playing the same game and we all have the same options to choose to play modern or classic controls. I think that adding a new control scheme was smart because it’s allowing more folks to enjoy playing the game. The more the merrier!

The only advantage modem players have are DPs. I have yet to play against one where I've landed a clean jump in. And I guess frame 1 supers

Modern controls are like an inverse skill multiplier. The worse you are, the better they assist you. That's why people get frustrated. Using modern might take a rookie to silver, but it won't take a diamond to master.

Modern does a great job of getting you into the game and is better for players up to masters. But it has no advantage at that point so it is working as intended

I understand the hate for modern controls (very surprised that it hasn't died down a year into the game tho), but people are talking about it like they're some cheats that only certain players have access to. Like... bro. If they're supposedly so superior and give you such an advantage then why don't YOU just use it too? We used to put people on ScrubQuotes for whining about modern, I don't get why that sentiment has flipped now

Modern is fair it’s just you need to approach them differently. I’m a 1600MR master AKI, seems like In that rank you need to bait reversals. And be careful at full screen because they can react with supers and such a few frames faster. Now at pro level… I believe it’s a disadvantage to use modern.

Modern is only really annoying for low ladder players since modern players don't have to worry about their inputs messing up. That being said, relying on your opponent to mess up inputs it's a great way to learn the game anyway since people will naturally stop making those mistakes. Edit after seeing the ending: Why are Modern players so salty? They always one and done without fail.

I’ve played that K.A.M before, they raged quit on me after I hit them with a Manon CA because they wouldn’t stop pressing buttons

I tell people all the time, modern players are at a big disadvantage. If you are complaining about modern, you're just bad. Plain and simple.

I use modern controls for a simple fact, I have a real job...not everyone is a "content creator", "youtuber" or "influencer" or spent hundreds of hours to play games.

I think modern controls would be better balanced if they had it do more damage than it does atm but add at least some startup to supers

idk man why i should do 10 button press to do 1 move?

Wait weren't Modern Marissas and Modern Chun-Lis successful in tournaments? (Might be out of the loop I haven't played for a while)

0:49 yeah I wish my friends who played with me in this game could subscribe to this mindset. Their new so its understandable but they would get stomped by a modern player and go "moderns so broken". Their are trade offs to modern and depending on the player could be worse. If you get smoked by someone using modern its probably because their just better period.

This is how i break it down to people. Lets say you could double your running speed but at the sacrifice of losing both of your arms Do you have an advantage over someone with regular speed and two arms? yeah sure you have an advantage at running but do you have an overall advantage at life? most people would say no and if you lost a fight against someone who is really fast but has no arms would anyone feel like it was unfair? the advantages you get from playing modern do not out weigh the COST you have to pay when you pick modern.

complaining about M controls is just a skill issue imo. You didn't lose because they have a 1 button DP. You lost because they were better than you, The only real character IMO that wins from M controls is Gief

tbh assist controls in any fighting game are generally bad and the people who complain about them are usually scrubs who werent winning their games anyways.

I use modern Ryu and I’m just so used to it. But I admit classic has more fundamental controls and better move sets than modern it just all depends people comfortability to play the game on which ever control sets. There’s no such thing as corny controls or what controls is better and which is trash it’s just the matter how to use it and how to fully give your potential

At 42, my hands aren't where they used to be with all the arthritis... some of us use modern for medical reasons

Jimmy I'm one more star of being a Master Rank in this game any tips of getting better and yes I only use Classic Controls.

Man, Jimmy is still on this topic? I personally don't mind modern players, but having the streamer constantly bring this up and downplay modern controls just doesn't feel very nice - reason as to why I have not been watching his streams lately. Just my thoughts, no hate though I still love Jimmy's Ryu. Downplaying just kills my vibe.

SF6 is my first fighting game, I can't play in modern. Needing to do special with 2 different types of inputs and do some normals with the assist button are annoying. I'd rather sit in the lab and keep doing the same motion input for half an hour whenever I open the game.

Well i'm low plat with modern Zanguief and high silver with classic Akuma. I played againts my brother who is diamond on classique honda, he dodged all my shopspe and countered all my focus attack ( gard breack ) with his option select. I'm kinda sure it is easy for me to climb with modern cause for now without practice I often miss my combo in classic when it is garanted in modern.

Mad respect for this Jimmy.

tbh if i get better i think i would steam roll every modern player i get on matches, but for the time being i just get boddied by morden controls xd

It just occurred to me that Jimmy never charges for Denjin Hadouken. He'll charge for Denjin Hashogeki if the opponent is dazed. But that's it. I guess because he plays Ryu as a rushdown player. Hmmm.

I love modern controls, I don’t have to waste my time training, I take what I know., use modern controls and destroy classic players and hear them cry like babies then, have them act childish and name call, yet they can’t beat someone who has a disadvantage in the game.