Stop Using Wedge Anchors On Car Lifts! 

Just to clear this up: •I NEVER said you MUST go 15" deep with your anchors. I went that deep because I COULD. If you poured an extra thick beam under your lift, would you still anchor at the standard depth for a standard depth slab??? Not me! [This space reserved to address any further rediculous comments from members of the RU-vid comment crew]

I worked in the industrial robot industry for many years. Chemical anchors were the only anchors we recommended using. When customers would have issues with their robots coming loose from the floor, inevitably we'd find that they didn't use chemical anchors, or had inadequate concrete.

Typically there's a spec for initial install and then a checking torque. Its normally between 100-150 on initial install and somewhere around 80 thereafter. Continuously torquing the wedge anchors to the installed specification will cause them to pull out over time.

I work in the maritime industry and I have used Hilti brand epoxy to install mooring bits that secure ships to a dock. Four 1.5 inch x 20 inch bolts, and it would stand up to anything a ship or tug can throw at it. I've seen ships hit the mooring bits, and the anchor epoxy still doesn't fail.

When you were saying you were going to drill 15” deep I was saying to myself you’d bust through the slab for sure. Most slabs are between 4” and 6” thick unless you are on a beam. If the slab is poured with the expectation of installing heavy equipment the slab designer may have spec’d footings which could be deeper/thicker in those specific areas. But if you don’t install the lift right there, your slab will be thinner. Imagine the cost of a full slab at 15-18” thick! Another point that needs to be made for the viewers is a “Post-tension” or cable tension slab would be a little more scary to install these anchors as cutting a slab cable under tremendous tension can blow out the side of your slab with amazing force. Plus will weaken the slab’s integrity if cut. Not saying your epoxy anchors are a bad idea or even that they aren’t better than the wedge anchors, I just wanted to point out a few cautions here. When drilling of these holes, regardless of the type of anchor, it is best to use a core drilling rig vs. a solid hammer drill to get the most surface area for the anchor. A hammer drill will bust out the bottom of the slab as it nears the bottom surface effectively shortening the vertical length of the hole which the anchors are gripping. Another advantage to using the core drilling set up is you can see the core of concrete (recovered from the hollow bit) for each hole so you know exactly how thick the slab is for each drilled anchor!

I have worked on several sites where post lifts were going to be installed, and the County building department requires removal of existing concrete at a specified size for the lift footprint, excavation, compaction, dowel placement in existing slab, a rebar mat, and then pour back to flush. The depth requirement was based on lift capacity.

The installation instructions with my Rotary 12K lift specify 110 lb/ft as the installation torque for the 3/4" wedge anchors. They also specify 65 lb/ft for the periodic maintenance torque. If I was re-torquing them to 150 lb/ft every 3 months I wouldn't be surprised it they started to pull out of the concrete. I strongly suggest you verify the specs for your anchors before pulling out the torque wrench and cranking them down to some "if I remember right" torque.

Having anchored down a number of machine tools we always used epoxy concrete with a 50K psi compressive strength. These were punches and sheers and had high vibration. They never moved or loosened. Epoxy is always better than sleeve or wedge anchoring systems.

Flawed thoughts but I'm guessing you dont have 18 inch thick concrete. So you'll be drilling into gravel and dirt.

I've used wedge anchors 80% of the time and like others stated robots, lifts and other machines that have vibration or cycling movements its best to expoxy the anchors in. But if your concrete slab is thin or low psi specification your pretty much reduced to cutting out the slab and pouring deeper higher psi footers. A ex coworker built a 3 bay garage and in the last bay he formed and poured a deeper footer for a lift doung the construction.

I appreciate the strength of the chemical anchors and in some cases they are needed. I install car hoists and use wedge anchors most of the time. The diameter of the wedge bolt can make a difference. I see some installers using 16mm bolts. These are below hoist manufacturers standards. I personally use 20mm wedge bolts. They bite in much better than 16mm and I have not seen them pull out. I also service hoists and do safety inspections which includes checking the torque of the bolts. There is often a couple of the bolts on a hoist which will need re torquing. It ususally takes a 1/4 -1/3 of a turn of the nut. After a couple of years they usually don't pull up at all anymore. The ones which continue to need retorquing I keep an eye on. I never cut off the threads as then you don't know how much bolt is in the concrete. If they don't retorque then I will knock them through the slab and use a single chemical bonded anchor. The industry standard is to use wedge anchors, so there is no use going an extra mile with a considerable extra expense if what the standard specified works. If a DIYer isn't sure then by all means use chemical bonding. By the way I have seen some chemically bonded bolts come loose.

Interesting video! I think it's the concrete failing, not the anchors. My rule: "If it can move, it will move. If it starts moving, it will keep moving." That leads to the death of many things. In this case, the cement is crumbling under the compressive force of wedge, and retainer becomes loose repeatedly. Epoxy doesn't exert that force, so it stays solid. Now, will the cement survive the upward draw of the torqued bolt? Time will tell. Good luck!

I worked in the rigging industry, and we had plenty of stands, preses, and reelers that were anchored with wedged anchors. They'd get damaged with ... well, heavy equipment or large heavy reels of steel wire rope being moved around less than carefully. As part of our work we made spelter socket terminations on wire ropes. These used epoxy to hold the meticulously separated and treble-cleaned individual strands in a "broom" that sat in the epoxy mix that was set. These spelter sockets were engineered/design-rated to 100% the strength of the wire rope used. Each were tested too, to ensure they were good. The other splices or swaged ferrule splices on a wire rope end: only 60 to 80% of the rated strength. After those sockets were poured: we would ALWAYS mix more, and have some excess. Most shops I worked at, we filled/repaired spalls and cracks in our concrete floors with the leftover. This "off-label" use of the epoxy was FAR stronger than the concrete it replaced. I've seen 4000 pound reels of wire rope bounced atop repaired sections, and the concrete would give first. Clearly, anyone whining about epoxy bonded anchors, implying they're inferior to wedge anchors are talking out their arses. Concrete anchors and epoxy mixes designed for this use would be far, far superior, and worth the extra cost on larger drill bits and epoxy.

I'm interested in finding out the quality of the concrete . We have that very same 12,000 lift in our shop and it is primarily used for heavy duty trucks 3/4 ton and one tons . One time I did recheck the torque and they were plenty tight, [ within spec. ] . This lift was installed about seven years ago and everything is still mounted down solid.

I built my slab extra thick for the lift. Used wedge anchors without issues. Still good and tight. Your concrete likely is poor. Had mine tested to 3200 PSI. My slab is almost 16” deep in the area of the posts. Lots of rebar as well. Sure it was expensive but I know it will not pull out or break the concrete.

Something isn't right with your concrete if the wedges pulled up that quickly. They should tighten the first few times you do your monthly/whatever tightening on them, and then stop. That initial tightening is just individual pieces of aggregate or whatever in the concrete getting crushed, until the anchor actually hits truly solid concrete and then it should stop basically forever. This isn't the anchors failing, it's the concrete failing. Noticed when you were comparing the specs, you went for 2000psi concrete -- if that's what your actual concrete is, it probably isn't strong enough for a 2-post installed to factory spec. It's should fine with your overkill anchor depth, but you probably want to keep an eye on your concrete supplier.

I think you may have an issue with your concrete not being up to spec, most require 3000 psi minimum (higher than that for higher capacities). A couple of other things - I have always used hilti anchors instead of the ones that come with lift and have never had an issue, also in your video at least one of your posts has anchors that are less than 6 inches from cracks in the concrete which is a no-no. Perhaps your video title should be - "How I repaired my failed lift anchors"

Wow! Never knew 150 ft lbs was the tightening spec on those anchor bolts. I've been working in shops as a tech since 1988 and I can't remember any of my lifts having tight anchor bolts. Most were always loose a few days after snugging them up. And I've been to a lot of shops and used a lot of lifts. 14 actually. Fortunately, I never saw a lift fall. I have seen a couple of techs rack vehicles poorly and have them fall. Thanks for sharing.

If you try to remove wedge anchors from concrete, you should be aware that the concrete those wedge anchors are coming out of is TOO SOFT to begin with. Wedge anchors in the proper psi poured concrete should be nearly impossible to remove. Any lift installed on the wrong type and strength of concrete is a disaster waiting to happen. I would rather die of old age than being crushed to death under a collapsing car or truck lift. Please only take advise from experts not youtube amateurs. Your life will depend on it.

Wedge anchors have been used for a long time in construction, a lot of large buildings have been built using them. I have never seen wedge anchors loosen up like the ones you show. However you have to use a proper quality anchor such as manufactured by Hilti, Philips, Simpson, etc. Also installation is very critical. If you drill the hole oversize you will have reduced capacity. Epoxy anchors are a more recent invention and have some advantages over wedge anchors for instance if you drill the hole a bit sloppy they can still work but they still must be installed properly. The manufacturers will state the requirements for cleaning out the holes and these must be strictly adhered to. I've seen epoxy anchors intentionally installed with some of the cleaning steps left out and the anchors failed at very low loads. In addition adhesive anchors are not good at sustained tension loads because the epoxy will creep and loosen up with time. There were some large failures at an underground traffic tunnel in Boston because of this. Some of the manufacturers now have adhesives that work better for tension applications. In addition you must use the drill bit diameter that is recommended by the epoxy manufacturer. The latest invention in concrete anchors are the screw anchors. These are very strong and a bit more foolproof to install but can still have a problem if the holes are sloppy, again you must use the exact drill bit diameter recommended by the bolt manufacturer. "All you do is drill a hole...". You must drill the proper diameter hole with the proper diameter bit. Did you buy the right bit at Home Depot? Did you wallow out the hole larger than necessary? Did you clean the hole properly? Even the cheapest wedge anchors should be performing better than the ones showed in the video so installation is questionable. Your interpretation of the Simpson load charts is incorrect. They give bond strength values for the anchors and yes a deeper hole achieves more bond strength but that doesn't make the steel bolt any stronger. You might not fail the adhesive at 45,000 pounds but the steel bolt would fail long before that, or the concrete would fail. An adhesive anchor can be stronger than a wedge anchor but not by the amount that you implied. The final strength of an adhesive anchor is the smallest of the epoxy bond strength compared to the concrete breakout strength compared to the steel rod strength. And another problem with anchor installation- OSHA now requires that you have a dust collection system to even drill the holes for the anchors. All of the main manufacturers sell systems using hollow drill bits and vacuums to do this. The fine dust that comes out of the holes contains very sharp particles that can injure your lungs.

I've used a lot of Hilti brand epoxy anchoring products, and several other brands, to anchor many different peices equipment over the years in industrial settings. I can tell you with the Hilti products, when used according to the manufacturer instructions, you will literally pull the all thread in two before you pull it out of the concrete ! That is if the concrete doesn't bust first !

Thank you! You spelled out all the concerns I had with the wedge anchors that came with my lift. I was constantly tightening them a bit after the first time I noticed they were loose. I think it happens with the weather as well as with use, as my lift is in my home shop, and does not see constant use. Once they loosened up, it bothered the heck out of me. I was absolutely considering making the move to Chemical anchors. I was a bit concerned with the lesser 105 foot pound recommendation. I think I'll be doing this in the spring.

When I installed my lift I threw the wedge anchors that came with the lift in the trash and used Hilti's. And there is always the option of using Tapcons which have better sheer and pull out than wedge anchors. A quality wedge anchor and concrete with the right psi you should never have a failure.

Use 4000 psi concrete 5" or thicker, and use Redhead anchors, you won't have that problem. When I built my shop I dug out an H 10" deep and put down rebar. Poured commercial grade 4000 psi concrete w/ fiber, and after 30 days I installed the lift with 8" Redheads. If something fails, it won't be the concrete or anchors.... Wedge anchors are perfectly fine when used and installed correctly.

I admire that you were taking the precaution. Doing nothing is extremely dangerous!

Diablo rebar demons (aka Bosch SpeedXtreme, same exact bit, different branding. Bosch owns Diablo) absolutely can drill through rebar. And they work better than the other style. I've punched through full 5/8" sticks with either. The core style bits were a much more exhausting process (leaning on the hammerdrill) and they never lasted as long. Rebar demons use diffusion bonding full head carbide, the other is just a brazed carbide insert. Water helps a lot with both in spite of the directions, but you have to obviously clean it for proper epoxy job. Also need to slow your RPMs. I ran an SDS Max setup so 300-400 RPM typical. People burn them up run too many RPMs on too large a bit on an SDS+.

The reason that your anchors are pulling up is because your concrete is below the required mpa. Car hoists require concrete which is rated at 30mpa. In Australia standard concrete is 25mpa but used to be 20mpa. Unless you ask the concrete company for 30mpa you will get the standard. If you use 30mpa you will never pull the anchors up out of the ground. They will tighten up and never pull the anchors up out of the ground. The epoxy system is for when your concrete is not up to spec or it is cracked etc.

Great video! I have three lifts using the same anchors that are installed by pros. They are just as loose as yours. No warranty with the pro installation. Go epoxy ❤

I installed elevators in High rises and we only used wedge anchors for the rail mounts and machinery , no epoxy. Commercial applications, the concrete is mixed correctly with exact PSI rating or they reject it. Residential or smaller commercial shops , the concrete is iffy . You have a concrete problem not an anchoring problem. Also of 2 posts , the outer anchors would give before the inner ones , so its not due to lift operation.

I really enjoyed your video, it was very detailed and now I have a clear vision on what anchors to use when I get my home garage built. As a quality control tech, I'm always researching in seeing what is the best product and or way of going about a task. I'm looking to have an 8 inch slab poured when I get ready to start my garage to make sure I have the thickness to install a two post lift and go with the epoxy instead of the anchors. I believe in being one and done and sometime you can't cut corners and go cheap , especially when it comes to something like installing a major piece of equipment that you're going to have thousands of pounds above you. Once again, thanks for posting that video and I will take heed of that information and use it well.

Wedge anchors are fine as long as the concrete and anchor install are both good. And that is the problem. As a former concrete contractor, I'd say that most concrete isn't done to spec. Just walk around your neighborhood, look at the concrete, and tell me that mud was done to spec. Then when you add a wedge anchor that is just a little bit poorly installed, you now have poor work on top of poor work. Stacking poor tolerances is how you wind up with an unsatisfactory well, anything, in the end.

The epoxy is great stuff, I definitely trust it above all else for anchors. If you do accidentally drill through the slab, you can push a small piece of foam backer rod or even a cork down to the bottom to prevent the epoxy from leaking out. Last time I looked at the specs, the steel rod was strongest, followed by the epoxy bond, followed by the concrete. If something fails on these types of anchors, it will be the concrete first. I don't trust wedge anchors for anything more than basic mounting with trivial loads. I have seen equipment mounted with wedge anchors get tagged by a forklift wheel and they don't survive.

You could go ridiculous overkill like I did. I built a 30 inch deep framework with a 1/4 inch thick steel base plate, through which I ran 3/4 inch grade 8 allthread inside conduit, all set inside 36 inch deep concrete footings. Once the concrete was cured, the lift was installed and the allthread was post-tensioned. That bad boy will never fail. Granted, the whole setup cost a couple thousand dollars, and that's with doing all the labor myself. I'd hate to think what it would have cost to pay someone to build all that.

On one side of my lift, the wedge anchors were slowly pulling out as well. I cut off the exposed anchor flush with the post using an angle grinder. Then used a steel rod and hammered the rest of the anchor out all the way through the bottom of the slab. I then re-drilled the holes for the next larger diameter anchors. Hammered in the new anchors. No issues since. The slab is around 5 1/2 inches thick.

I got my wedge anchor bolts from car lift parts, that are intended for car lifts. 2 years and 2 - 10,000 lb. lifts not 1 single problem, with 2500 and 3500 pickups and vans. 4000psi concrete 5" thick drilled 4-1/2". Not trying to argue, but lift companies install these this way every day and no problems. I have mounted equipment to concrete for 30 years using these and no problems. I suspect you got a bad batch of concrete.

Since I was starting from scratch I welded a large H out of used H-beam (surplus steel saves absurd money!) then bolted and welded my used lift to that. It's self-supporting and far stronger than concrete so if you pour a slab consider prepositioning steel (gross overkill is good). Fab it so it does not require the concrete to take the load and you can even place a lift outdoors with a railroad gravel base. If ever need to remove it an hour with my cutting torch would cut the bolts and gouge out the welds. I also boxed my shop foundation in large beam so not only did it not need an expensive wooden form but I could and do weld to it. If I ever have to place one on existing slab I'll rent a concrete saw and jackhammer then drop another steel H into that. Many mechanics don't know how easy surplus steel is to get from demo companies and scrap yard. Fecesbook Marketplace is another good source.

You have an inadequate slab

If you don't want to buy the gun, full tube of epoxy etc hilti makes a system with little packages (1 per anchor) that you put in the hole and "screw" the anchor into it to mix it

Hmmm, every single lift manufacturer that I've researched use wedge anchores. Yours definitely aren't biting into your concrete for some reason. Wedge anchores do work. I've seen concrete break before the wedge anchor pulling out. They should kinda create a little undercut in the area they originally bite into making it less likely to pull out. We have used threaded studs and a type of epoxy to anchor our large machine tools to the floor. Definitely a very strong method. You are correct, epoxy is a very strong joining method no doubt.

The problem is not the anchors. I installed my 12k lift 10 years ago and have lifted diesel trucks (9000 lbs) and Sprinter vans (8800 lbs). When I built my workshop, we used 4000 psi concrete and I wet cured it. Most garage floor use 2000 psi concrete and they air dry it instead of wet curing. That makes the difference. The problem you have is the concrete is too weak.

I tried installing some lifting connections on a few Jersey barriers with wedge anchors. These concrete barriers weigh 11,000 pounds and when I lifted them by the wedge anchor connectors, the top concrete just broke out. If I had used an epoxy anchor and put it deep, the force would be spread down into the whole body of the barrier. I have to agree with your opinion on this!

Hilti Kwik Bolt2 is a very good anchor. Make sure the expiration date on the epoxy. We had it set up too fast one time. Drilling it out and cleaning the holes is a nightmare.

I have always used 6 sack concrete mix 4000 psi . I think people get bids for their floors and dont ask what mix they get. I remember in 70s they had a 2 1/2 sack mix that had chemicals added to give it strength. If the floor is cheap concrete mix the bolts just make powder out of you concrete. Epoxy may help but weak mix will always break down under pressure. I would cut that floor and poor a 6 sack 4000 psi footing under the post.

Good vid ! 7 month update on the fix?? I'm thinking a stainless steel 1/2 plate (under the slab at grade) with the bolts coming through a new 6-8" concrete pour would be better . You'd have to have an exact template made to set the plates and bolts during the slap pour. .I 'm definitely pouring a deep slab in my lift area. This is concerning for sure. 150' lbs is not a lot

Most people install wedge anchors wrong. If you don't brush and blow out the hole before installing a wedge anchor it will pull up. Epoxy is the best though. Follow the instructions carefully.

Only problem I saw as a mechanic was your use of a torque wrench, 1 click your done, not 2 or 3 more clicks.

Thanks for this. I’m going to do it on mine. I’ve had the same issues. My footings under my lift are 24” thick so it will work great. Thanks again sir.

You are very smart using epoxy to replace those wedge anchors. So much torque on the bolts from the leverage of the weight pulling the towers over at an angle under load means you need superior anchoring. Be sure to create a pocket under the concrete and fill it with the epoxy priot to inserting the all thead rod. This will give not only an epoxy bond but will make the epoxy act like a wedge as well. Use a vacuum to remove some of the aggregate after drilling then fill. Get more than one container of expoxy. One will not do.

At 10:57 "the only thing you can do wrong" regarding using a wedge anchor...it's best to add, ...Not cleaning the drilled hole when using a wedge anchor can also cause premature failure of wedge anchors. Also my concrete guy never uses anything under 4000 concrete when cars are driving on it.

Did you drill through the concrete? If the flaring part of the anchor bolt is close to or below the slab bottom it will fail to grab properly.

Instead of blameing the anchor I think you might look at the concrert . I installed alot of wedge anchors and the only time I HAD A problem was when concret failed test specs. You can core drill a test sample and have the concrete tested . Be safe .

I did the same research years ago after the guy at our local fastener supply house told me about using Redhead T7 anchoring adhesive and pretty much saw the same data as you have shown. On smaller and less critical applications I have had some experience with pulling out the wedge type anchors.

I over saw the install of 2500 pieces of threaded rod in epoxy on the roof of the Pentagon for the life line protection system. We pull tested every single solitary rod to 4000 ft pounds. We did have a lot of failures with off brand epoxy but Hilti epoxy installed with screens is badass and won’t fail!!!!

Lots of good information about proper lift maintenance and it's appreciated. I wonder if you had a weak spot in the same area those bad anchors were? Good fix though!

Lot of time the drill bit may take out too much material not allowing the anchor to grip when its torque up

something is wrong with your floor. the anchors rarely fail unless there is an issue with the concrete. I have seen chemical anchors fail more than the wedge style. you said you will go deeper you won't gain anything after you exceed the shear strength. you said you had 2000 psi concrete that isn't enough to support that lift. what is the depth of your floor. these lifts require you have a concrete beam below where you mount the lift. you shimmed the floor plate but didn't backfill with no shrink mortar. when you don't fill the void the floor plate flexes that will cause problems with your anchor bolts. my opinion you caused the failure by not backfilling under the floor plate. if you fail to do this with your chemical anchors they will work loose too. you have to support below the floor plate.

I'll bet your concrete isn't up to spec. I installed one of those lifts in my shop. It's floor isn't up to spec. I didn't want to cut out the floor to pour new footings. I just made damm sure the holes were drilled true and brushed and rinsed clean. Then I guyed the lift towers to the roof trusses with 2x2x.25 angle.

Any statement that starts with "I am part of a Facebook group" is usually followed with the dumbest thing a person can interject for that topic. That being said, concrete anchors are time tested and proven in many applications, do they work and are they effective?...yes. That being said the concrete pull out cone that is established by the wedging effect of the anchor negatively impacts the holding capacity of the anchor. The wedge anchors really strive when they are used in applications in where the anchor is subjected to a consistent and continuous tension force. For a two post car lift base plate the tension value is neither consistent nor continuous. The tension forces are constantly changing with respect to lifting and lowering vehicles. This tensioning and relaxing causes the anchor to loose clamping force through the wearing away of the concrete it is embedded in. The anchors to the inside of the lift do not experience a tension force as they are directly adjacent to the pivot point of the plate when loaded. Those anchors are exposed to an out of plane combined point shear, they mostly just see a reduction in clamping as the compressive force of the plate trying to push through the concrete causes a reaction force. There are soo many variations of concrete anchors that could have been used here, epoxy is obviously the most superior second only to precast anchor bolts (not an option). The precision of the hole that is drilled for the epoxy needs to be on the tight side as the epoxy manufacturer specifies a tolerance for shear in the concrete/epoxy/fastener interface. If it is a concern hire an experienced engineer to inspect and sign off on your installation, just because a "pro" installed a lift doesn't mean a damn thing.

Or the absolute strongest way to place the anchors, is to make a template of baseplate,and bolt the L anchor to the wooden or metal template. For added strength, weld rebar,from one L anchor to another,to form a cage. Then place it when the concrete poured.

Cut 2 4x4 ‘ holes 1.5’ deep. Compacted 6” gravel. Welded thick wall tubing 1.25’ long matching baseplate pattern to a 1” steel plate. Welded rebar to bottom of plate and anchor eon concrete after aligning and leveling to opposite side. I epoxied rebar in old concrete aligning them and welded them to mounting tubes for support. Didn’t want tubing to move. Have 1’ of 4000 psi concrete. Week later cut tubing to concrete level bore & tap. This for a benpack movable lift. Gearhead here. Build my cars by myself. Not overkill. Safer. Good video.

While wedge anchors do have their shortcomings, in your case it seems there's also a problem with the quality of your concrete floor. I have a large four post car lift anchored with just four bolts on each post. I really abuse this lift on a daily basis. On the right side it is anchored with wedge anchors, the left side is held by an epoxy anchor system. Both do their job neither the epoxy nor the wedge anchors get loose. Reason might be a very high quality concrete floor with a hefty amount of rebar. However, I have to agree that epoxy anchors probably are a safer solution. Sometimes you have to deal with a floor of slightly questionable quality and this is where the epoxy system certainly is superior.

First off I highly doubt you concrete is more than 6 inches deep..secondly I think your cement is what is falling not the anchors that is falling.

No engineer but I've been anchoring heavy things to concrete for 30 years. Hopefully the epoxy anchor solves your issue but wedge anchors are fine. The site specific variables that defeat any anchor are the condition of the concrete, thickness of the concrete, original spec of the concrete and the condition of the holes drilled. If for whatever reason the holes for the anchors were out of spec, the anchor will fail. Could be because of the condition of the cutting edge, the drill spindle runout operator error. On and on.

We needed to hang a decorative facia over an elevator door. Problem was it was 10' high and weighed 600 pounds Each. There were about 18 of them for Chase Manhattan building. We had 3 teams of 2 people doing 3 sets of facia. Over the bucks were concrete block. Everything needed to be anchored with the epoxy tubes. A chain hoist needed to be mounted near the ceiling. One of the teams hit a hollow block with the epoxy. When they started to use the hoist, the anchors failed and a whole section fell. The sound was deafening. I was pretty sure someone got killed. Fortunately only the steel was damaged. When using the epoxy, you must be absolutely sure it is solidly packed with concrete inside the block.

That's what frustrates me about certain vehicle lift manufactures instructions. Those anchors should not be 150ft/lbs of torque. They're just supposed to be snug (60-80ft/lbs). All the anchors do is keep the posts from tipping. Torqueing them super tight is only going to cause them to start slipping out over time. Bendpak lifts recommends the same thing to only tighten the anchors snug. The force on the posts are not straight up and down, but the force on the posts tip inwards while under a load. Yeah, 150ft/lbs is way too much, and will only cause the anchors to keep pulling out over time.

You have to use wedge anchors with driving pin in top that drives wedge open and keeps it there

Great recovery method but watch out for air voids when inserting your rods. The best method is to wet set your bent/heavily washered anchor rods in concrete, right from jumpstreet. Making a plywood template with your desired bolt pattern is key.

Best anchor system is to have a base template of the lift your gonna install and put 3/4 inch bolts while the concrete is poured and have a square washer with a nut on the bottom..of course this only works on a new or redone concrete pour...it ill never need to be re torqued..

Good morning. This vid was posted five months ago. I am sure u have checked how the bolts and clamping force is doing. And I bet they r all holding up perfectly!! When I installed my racks, just for fun, I boxed them in at the top with 2x6’s to the rafter ties. When the car or truck on the rack is unbalanced, it presents a large force on the bolts anchoring it to the floor. Capturing the top is much more effective force wise. Right? It’s just a little extra insurance.

Most of the wedge anchors fail because of how the wedge initially grabbed the surrounding concrete. A masonry bit creates an imperfect hole. That together with the way the concrete was poured and how it was cured can result to even more in the cylinder the wedge must grab. After the anchor has been in the basic/corrosive concrete, the wedge can no longer slide free to the point it will expand on the flared part of the anchor. At this point tightening the bolt only pulls it higher as the wedge continually is squashed thinner and thinner. It's kind of like you said, the hole has to be right to begin with. I always lubricate the flare just a bit so the wedge can slide nicely. If your anchor continues to slip do the trick with the drill chuck spin or the bottle jack and pull that puppy out. Blow out the hole with a compressor. Get a new anchor and flare the wedge a little bit and drip a little WD on it so the wedge can slide down more and expand further.

I've used the epoxy anchors to mount some really large equipment like huge gearboxes that make 1, 000, 000 foot pounds of torque for industrial wastewater treatment plants. I can't even imagine anyone using wedge anchors tor stuff like that. We had a bar screen in Trenton NJ in a tunnel so big that I drove a pickup and a backhoe in. Like 20 years ago they had a big storm and all kinds of crazy big stuff came washing down and blew the bar screen out, The epoxy anchors held and the steel of the bar screen tore. The plant operator said when it let loose the ground shook like an earthquake. He thought a train derailed

Needs 4000 to 5000 psi concrete

When I poured the slab for my shop, I paid extra for 3,500 psi concrete. I also let them know I would be casting test cubes and cure them by the book. 2,000 psi concrete is fluffy and flimsy by comparison. And if the truck got lost, or dropped part of a load somewhere else, and you got the 2nd half of the load, they might add a little extra water so it doesn't start to set up in the truck. It might not even be 2,000 psi. And all the numbers for concrete are compressive strength, not tensile. Given your situation, you did exactly the right thing. Totally secure overkill anchors are not really needed, until suddenly they are. Then it's too late. If your lucky, the worst part will be a damaged car.

This is a failure waiting to happen. You never drill thru a slab due to rusting. The debris must be vacuumed out because it acts like an abrasive around the drill bit and also gives you a false depth. Wedge anchors when installed properly is the choice, always. I will also call out that your concrete is not rated in strength and thickness to successfully support this. I have a Mohawk lift (best out there) and again, quality wedge anchors are used.

I watched the whole video and immediately subscribed. This gentleman is a genius. He thoroughly studied and executed the job like a scientist. Today I am moving my rack. Guess what I am gonna use. Exactly what he did. Thank u!!

It's unarguably sensible to use what's best. You don't need to simulate he'd say I'd say. It's your life, you only get one chance. Do it right.

In the 70's we used sulfur to anchor all thread in concrete to anchor equipment, you couldnt get it out, had to cut it off & grind flush to floor. You melt the sulfur in a coffee can & pour it around the all thread, the new epoxies are most likley stronger but who knows sometimes old school is the way to go.

I poured 10” deep. Ran standard hardware store wedge anchors at home shop. All other dozen or so lifts ice I’ve installed same Way… check torque about once then never a problem again. Not loose…

I only have 6 pin type anchors in each post and 100 psi is all the torque you want, your tearing the concrete apart at 150 foot lbs

I sure see the problem to. My answer was to take a same size base plate and weld bolts on it then pour 5 inch concrete over the whole thing . I plan to make a larger base plate to bolt to and ancor that to the concrete for the next one.

Sounds more like your concrete isn’t deep enough. These shouldn’t ever fail you. That being said, the ultra bond is a great alternative

I don't understand what is the thickness and psi of your concrete ? Since you are drilling down 15" is that how thick ur concrete is? I think like a previous person stated the original concrete was the problem . It does not make any sense why the outer anchors didn't fail as those would have the most pull on them???

Your neighbor here. I don't know why you had to throw me under the bus in this video. 7:39

I never considered vedge anchors with my lift you never get them all to bite). Stainless allthread with composite chem-anchor, with all stainless fastners including the washers topped with stainless acorn-nuts (because shiny). It's expensive hardware but in relation to the lift it's bugger all.

I'm a commercial general contractor primarily building dry ice manufacturing plants nationwide. There is not a single spec that allows wedge anchors on my projects. Not even the TP holder. Did you test your concrete? 2000 psi is really low. Our sidewalks are 3500 psi. We primarily pour anchor bolts in the slab for the giant equipment and the smaller stuff we use Tapcons from 1/2" to 2" diameter. Tapcons are the way to go unless you can pour anchor bolts in. Tapcons are not cheap. You may need to cut out a chunk of concrete and pour a pier. I'm sure you will figure it out. Here is a helpful tip. If you can get a little space under your lift put some non-shrinking grout under it and let it squish out. That will give your bottom plate more bearing, spread the load and stop any flexing. I also drag race so you know I know what I'm talking about. Thank you for the video and thank you for your time.

Work in at a RAM dealer. Every single one of our lifts has "loose" anchors. You have to realize that the concrete and steel expand and contract at different rates. They will eventually "loosen" up over time. Nothing you do will change this because these bolts aren't torque to yield. Like others have states there is probably a checking torque which is much lower for that reason. This is something that you should be doing during annual inspections, and its pretty normal... I can tell you they didn't install all 14 racks wrong!

Tech Red, can you tell me the part number on the rods from McMaster-Carr ? Thanks for some awesome info.

Do you know how thick your slab is? The spec for the concrete is 3,000psi, usually a 5 sack mix. If the slab is weak, then epoxy may not help that much. Though it’s probable going to be better. I would definitely check the slab.

6 month updates? are you still alive?

Curious if this would work for 4 1/2"- 5" concrete? What would be the minimum thicknes for a threaded rod be ? I believe Rotary includes Epoxy along with the wedge anchors with there lifts now. I just installed a Mohawk 9k lift this past weekend and the specs call for only 80 FT Lbs of torque Great video by the way it gets people thinking

I used drop in anchors for my lift, not a problem. If all you do is drill a hole and drop them in you will have problems. a long bottle brush in a drill down the hole, blast it out with the air gun and vacuum the dust, then drop it in.

My slab is only 6” thick. I drilled all the was through and that way I can drive the bad anchor all the way through and then install a new one. That diablo bit will easily grow through rebar with a Bosch hammer drill too. I wish I had your concrete depth!

Pull the anchors out, clean the holes with a bottle brush, get some Hilti epoxy fill the holes about 1/2 way up and push the bolts back into the hole. When it dries tighten them up.

Cheap Hydraulics 39 years this epoxy I've used but I've used an anchor with it it's oversized you get it underneath the concrete with the epoxy also this epoxy needs to be tested for at least 20 years before I would use just threaded anchors am I work for a a couple of years would I wouldn't put it on all of my anchors also you should check the type of concrete you have and also check if your floor is balanced you might need wedges underneath your anchors to balance it right any questions just call

either your concrete is bad, you bought cheap anchors and bits, or you yourself caused them to fail by over-tourquing your anchors. when you set your wrench you stop at the first click. each additional click increases the torque on the anchor, which in turn causes concrete to fail around the anchor. you're also using an extended length ratchet and not a torque wrench. These were designed and specd by engineers, not mechanics. Read the installation instructions and maintainance instructions again, and follow them

I doubt I will ever use anything else when anchoring into concrete. I was a little concerned about the cost. I can be cheap at times, BUT! I clean out my mixing tip with the garden hose and water. You can save what is in the tubes and salvage the tip for the next project.

I suspect it was more the concrete failing than the anchor, but the results are the same. We use exclusively wedge anchors in the nuclear power houses, however the concrete recipe, and rebar placements, are much different than a garage floor. If I put a lift in my garage, and I have room for it, I would have to core hole where the lift pads would be, make the holes 3' deep, and have a strong batch of concrete poured.

I had the same problem with my 11k lift. I devised a way to extract the factory 3/4” wedge anchors with no damage to the concrete. I then purchased some B7 grade 5/8” threaded rod which has a higher tensile strength than the normal 3/4” anchor. This gave me the 1/8”oversized hole for the epoxy anchoring. No more problems. If you want to k ow how to remove wedge anchors without damage to the concrete, let me know.

3 problems with this video. I just installed my 2nd bendpak 2 post. They require 3000 psi concrete minimum, not 2000. Recommended Torque for 3/4” anchors is only 85-95 lb-ft, not 150! And last it is not a simple as drill and install. You MUST remove all concrete dust or it will act like a lubricant and prevent the anchors from biting.

Have you loosed the nut and pounded down the bolt then retighted the bolt