I started transitioning into my Stranger Things phase maybe November 6 I mean I’m not sure. I started watching season one in early November but I don’t really know for sure but it would be cool if I started watching the first episode on stranger things day!
Idk if hes the main villain, but jes certainly the one in control. I personally believe that its kind of like a Saruman and Sauron situation. Henry does the planning and tht thinking (aka speaking through Billy in s3 and all that) but hes working under the Mind Flayer. I still think Henry will be treated as the main villain. It would feel so cheap if he was just a random secondary antagonist in S5.
I'm only a few minutes into this video so maybe something is said to prove this but from what I saw it was the other way around. Henry saw the particles and use his powers to arrange them into the shape of his favorite thing (spiders) and he even said when he found the particles "he finally realized a way to turns his dreams into reality" so by the looks of it, Henry is using the particles or whatever they are as a kind of brain control center to put them into things and control them (hence the hive mind as it all goes back to him) so from everything I've seen, Henry is the one in control but maybe I should actually watch the video first lol
Yes, my theory is that Henry and Vecna are 2 split personalities, the same way will had another much angrier personality when the MF was inside him. The MF is the main villain who is controlling Henry with Vecna and it will be patty who comes back to get Henry back who will inevitably be able to defeat the MF. There's a lot of talk about dimension x which is different to the Upside down.
@@archiepooley1287 I believe that it will be Will who ends the mind flare, mostly because it makes the most sense. Think about the mind flare kidnapped him, turned him into a puppet all of that when he was a kid. It makes sense if he is the one to end the mind flare.
Great Breakdown of the Prequel as it sounds pretty interesting as expected. Also, I would love to see a full timeline for the ST franchise in the future 😎🙌🏻🙌🏻
I think Henry fell through Dimension X when the gate first opened. When Eleven opened it a second time, I think she directly opened it to the Upside down, skipping dimension X, merging the upside down with Earth, making it a copy of earth OR Dimension X is the upside down before it became a reverse Hawkins
Or maybe they could’ve took an over a dimension similar to ours, which would add steaks showing that they’ve already took an over a similar dimension to ours
Great video. Why are you so underrated? I just subscribed to Chris’ patreon and am about to start watching stranger things with you guys. I’m 14 and am a movie/tv show FREAK! Love you guys!
@@cameronsilas I genuinely am OBSESSED with stranger things. I have watched every theory video for season 5 I have rewatched the whole show 5 times, about be my 6th. Max and Steve are my 1 A and 1 B. The way I would die to meet you guys. I could talk to you guys about stranger things for HOURS!!!
It would make sense for him to not be a reliable narrator if it is the mind flayer talking and using Henry's memories, that he misunderstands because he is not human. The "Key" is probably the Newby sister still being alive and showing herself to Henry, allowing him to turn on the mind flayer and help Will and Eleven fight him. And Bob Newby was already a character, who died, so it would make sense also that the sister would come back to get his things and get caught in the hubub of the upside down, and still not technically be a "new" character, because she was in the play.
Upside down was exactly how you explained dimension X when Henry was first sent there by eleven. It was orange, rocks were floating ig , and small demogorgans were roaming out there
Thank you for making this video, it looks like you put a lot of effort to make it 😊, just subbed. Btw there is this theory called birthdaygate, which basically talks about the fact that the Duffer brothers probably lied in the interview where they said that they forgot will's birthday was on march 22nd, the proof to back this up is : 1. In the interview they said that they forgot will's birthday and that they would go back and change it, BUT they never changed it and they also tweeted on twitter (from the official writer's twitter account) that they have never and will never change any scenes in stranger things. 2. They also talked about how watching season 2 before watching season 4 will give a lot of context for some scenes, and they also made many parallels referring to season 2 in season 4.Will getting possessed was a big part of season 2 and the fact that his birthday was on march 22nd was heavily talked about. 3. In season 4 in the rink o mania scenes if you look at the background you will notice tones of birthday decor everywhere, i think it is for a flashback scene that vecna will give will in season 4. 4. The word birthday pops up multiple times throughout season 4. 5. And as a cherry on top the writers official twitter account has been wishing will happy birthday every year, including this year ! Anyway this is just a theory but its very interesting so i just wanted to share 😄
It’s been a couple months since I saw the show, but for the 19:30 section, I vaguely recall in the show that the father woke up to Victor beside him believed to be dead. But Victor then escaped the guards after the father was taken away, and he went to the school. It’s a little silly, but I guess they needed to do something to get Victor to continue in the show. Otherwise his story would have ended abruptly, and the option they went with technically works for the canon.
They also cut some scenes, which I understand were only shown a few times during the first previews. The most notable is when Henry interact with a Demogorgon. 7:53 has an image of this, and this is no longer in the show. I believe it was cut due to the show being too long, and the scene adding little narratively (plus the Demo costume does look a little clunky on stage). So only a few thousand people potentially saw the scene, and the play no longer literally shows Henry in the other dimension, it only mentions it. Maybe some day they will add back the scene (as early reviews praised it, and the show loved it enough to release it as the first image), but I highly doubt it at this point.
What if the Upside Down is like a hybrid of the real world and Dimension X. Like what if whatever happened on November 6th joined the two worlds together and made some sort of Dimension X/Real World hybrid world…
Thanks for that vid Cam! I watch Chris and yours videos about Stranger Things, actually Chris is my favorite RU-vidr! This video was very well done. Even that I am from Europe, it is quite difficult to travel to London since they are not in EU. So I just decided to listen to you! However I did not expect it to be that hard to understand. I had to put it on 0,75 speed because a lot of new terms and you speak very quickly. English is not my native language, but i never had to slow down video, but you are very excited story teller and speak quickly, chris speaks way slower :D Had to rewatch it more times! :--) it well trains my English. Thanks and wish you the best!
I think the reason it was released as a play is because it’s just a rough draft of a prequel series they are planning to produce exploring the past since the duffer brothers have said they were planning a new series
Which I could definitely see happening considering we also have The Suspicious Minds book exploring Terry Ives past. I think a prequel show exploring all the past characters would be amazing with the show ending with terry ives storming the Hawkins Lab
THANK GOD BECAUSE i’m so sick of people KEEP TALKING about how “oh it’s canon to the show” blah blah okay i didn’t see the theatre shit so SOMEONE explain!!!!! so thank you!!!! and so if the play is canon to the show does that mean it answers questions for seasons 1-4??? and spoils s5? so will they still answer questions from s1-4 for us in s5 or do they expect us to go to london and watch the play?
I’ve seen the play almost two months ago, and that’s a good recap ! I don’t remember very well the part when Victor found Alice and Henry dead in the play, but i don’t think it appeared to me as something incoherent with the depiction of the scene in the series. I can’t be sure because I don’t remember that part of the play very well, but the way i put it together in my head is that Victor finds Henry unconscious on the floor and thinks that he’s dead, but he gets arrested before finding out that his son is in fact alive. For the inconsistencies with the newspaper, I think it’s not a big deal, the Duffers must have thought that these weren’t reliable sources, hence the lack of care put in the articles. But yeah, the big reveals of the play that got me thinking when it ended were really Henry’s blood being used by Brenner and the way the Mindflayer is already there at this point of the timeline. The blood thing might be useful in season five, as it establishes that there is something linking Eleven directly to Henry (she has his blood in her veins ! Or at least, he is the origin of her power !). This really feels like something that can play a big role in the final season. Then there’s this Mindflayer thing that got me really confused while watching the play, as season four clearly seemed to establish that the Mindflayer is only a creation of Henry’s (I mean, we can see him shape the shadow monster). And this is the real game changer from this show, since it changes a lot of things. As you said, in the play the Mindflayer is presented as something that used Henry or took control over him, and we can see the shape of the shadow monster at some point while Henry is at Hawkins lab (Henry makes it appear on a TV screen). I think it could mean multiple things, but these are only theories at this point. Maybe the Mindflayer is a part of Henry himself that was awakened when he entered in contact with dimension X (and it’s slowly taking control, like some sort of schizophrenia). Maybe it was an entity that existed already, but needed Henry’s powers to get a physical shape, or that can’t act on its own and needs Henry to do the work for it. It might even manipulate Henry into believing that he is in control of himself, hence the speech in season four. Or (maybe it’s too far fetched), the Mindflayer is Henry coming back to the past, to trick himself into this path. He would use dimension X in season five or later to do it, which would work if we make the theory that it’s a dimension where time doesn’t exist the same way as here (or not at all). This would link dimension X with the fact that the upside down is stuck in 1983 (eleven would have sort of "anchored" dimension X it in time). Anyway, these are just theories but I think it at least proves that this mindflayer thing is a big deal. Finally, the play revealed something really important that you didn’t really spend time developing : the parents of the teens knew Henry ! It would be so weird if there isn’t a scene in season five where the teens ask their parents about him to get some information… they could lead them to go look for Patty Newby, which was still alive at the end of the show and which was Henry’s first (and only) love. Maybe she would be the key to defeating him ! I really hope that they release the play on Netflix or something. It was so good visually, and I’d really like to watch it again as I’m already starting to forget some pieces of it… plus, the way it’s written as real episodes of the series (there’s even title cards during the play) would make it fit really well on Netflix. And if you have any question about the play, don’t hesitate ! (By the way, sorry if I made some writing mistakes, english is not my first language.)
Was there any indication that Karen Wheeler will have a somewhat large part to play in either finding or killing Henry? Or was she close to Patty maybe?
@@chocobro77 I wish they did… even when you have actually seen the play, your memories inevitably start to fade out at some point. Plus, seeing how good it looked on stage it would be incredible on screen. We got a glimpse of what it could look like with the recent trailer, I hope it means we’re getting it on Netflix at some point !
@@sabrinawise7938 From what I recall no, Karen wasn’t particularly close to Henry or Patty. To the contrary, she was kind of a "popular" girl and was distant to them (she was bragging about being Ted’s girlfriend, which at the time was a popular jock). Joyce and Hopper would be the main go to for answering questions about Henry’s past since they literally investigated in his house. But again, Karen knew them too (like almost every parent of the show) so she could help with tiny infos. And yeah the most logical thing for season 5 after watching the play would be the kids asking their parents about Henry. That would logically lead them to go find Patty
I played the VR game and it goes into depth on Henry’s adventures when he’s sent to the upside down. There’s scenes where you play him and he jumps into alternate dimensions. I’m assuming that’s him trying to possess other dimensions he’s previously been sent to(?) Also Henry wants to control the entire upside down. It goes into how he feeds off dem meat, consumes all their brains and takes the dems in similar ways he took characters in the fourth season. He also controls the dem bats which infect people in the game, along with the flowers and vines. Not sure if it’s going to be the same in the show. But this makes a lot more sense.
Great video and really interesting to see the timeline from the play. I went to see it with my daughter in December when it was in its preview stage and really came out with more questions than answers. We would love to go back to see it and are trying hard to get tickets again! Just a couple of questions. One of the lines we picked up in the play's promo was that it 'may hold the key to the end,' which we have no idea about - I wondered if anyone else had any thoughts. Also, I may be wrong, but Patty Newby is introduced for the first time in the play and she isn't mentioned in the TV series at all, as far as I am aware. Any thoughts on whether she will make an appearance in Season 5 or not? She is a major character in the play and at the end it is teased that either she has powers or that Henry is watching her somehow from the Lab because the lights flicker where she is.
They accidentally called him Edward on that newspaper because Henry Creel is based on both Edward Crowley and Andy Kaufman. Instead of naming him either Edward or Andy they went with an inbetween name Henry. Crowley was born in 1875, and Kaufman was born in 1949 - instead of choosing either year/number combination they went with 1947. They couldve went with 1987, but thats the year the show ends and when he will likely die. Also his name was changed to Vekna because it’s akin to samaEl who was renamed Satan (-In Dungeons & Dragons, Vecna is a powerful lich, a spellcaster who defies death by magical means-)
I say the Stranger Things VR game did a great job showing Henry’s experience in Dimension X and the pull of him against the Mindflayer for dominate control. Henry succeeded
@@jarnold TRUE but I believe after that quote, it started begging Henry to work with him to take revenge after Henry almost absorbed ALL of his essence into his body, consuming it. But yeah, what you're saying can be true but I still think Henry is is full control but the Shadow keeps trying to lead him astray so it can take over him as it's new vessel.
When Henry says "Humans are a unique type of pest." when he reveals his backstory to El. I thought it was almost an alien or something talking about humans. Makes sense that his blood is changed to be something other than human. Could've even been the Mind Flayer talking.
So I love the idea of a ST play like this but I wish it was not canon and instead they did a prequel spinoff series… would’ve loved to have seen that. Also that way it would’ve reached a much much bigger audience.
It seems that stranger things is trying to fix something they messed up. In both the vr game, and this play the mind flare is the big bad. I think it’s them telling us that Dustin was right about vecna being the five star general. Basically vecna is darth Vader and the mind flare is the emperor. Also it’s my theory that Will is going to fight the mind flare, and el is going to fight vecna because it makes sense for their character. Will fighting against the monsters who has hinted him most of his life, and el fighting against someone who she once called a friend.
A theory I’ve heard is that the Upside Down was essentially just Dimension X until 1983 (as we see when Henry first ends up there) and that *Will* somehow turned it into Hawkins when he was sent through (as a kind of protection/familiarity thing)… this obviously leads into a bigger theory about how powerful Will is but I think it could be a solid explanation
Alice surely can’t be 15… ignoring the newspaper and based on the actual actors, she seems to be the younger sister. I assumed she was like 10. Also if Henry is 12, he couldn’t be a freshman that year and would be six years younger than Joyce and Hopper not 3 years so yeah the timeline is definitely confusing
Oh I agree 100%!!!! The ages of Alice AND Henry just do not make sense to me! She’s also clearly younger than Henry in the play… the duffers need to give me answers’
I think the newspapers’ inconsistencies might be intentional. Newspapers get facts wrong all the time. Maybe that’s what contributed the Creel murders to becoming an urban legend
Woohoo yes!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 I had to read up on the play, I didn't care, I don't believe in spoilers, it's always different than you think when the show starts again 😃❤❤❤.
Great video! I learned a lot. But it's not pronounced McUltra like a cheese burger haha it's pronounced M.K. Ultra (a real life experiment- had many test subjects including Whitey Bulger!) but thank you so much for this video because I'm a huge fan of the show and actually didn't know a LOT of this. I don't know if I'm WILD about Henry's origin story with the cave system but hey it's something for now!
Not really, tenderclaws has went on podcast to say many of the plot decisions were made by themselves and not by any of the actual ST writers and it purposefully leaves things ambiguous like having a line where shadow Brenner says he will allow henry to think hes in control (which, if you ask me, manages to make it no longer ambiguous - but at the very least they want you to still be debating it going into S5)
If time is frozen in 1983 this is because this is the last time Vecna came to our world. The first scene of stranger things with Will disappearing is not a real scene in our world, this is Vecna in Will's mind, this is why the gun is not at the same place when Hopper comes to investigate for example. This is why he is "vanishing". He was never there, Vecna used his fear to attract Will in the Upside Down. He used the real world to influence Will just like at the end of season 4 he uses the real world against Max.
Not really but hinted in the play very strongly and it explains the title, the « vanishing » of Will Byers, the scene you are seeing at the start of episode 1 with Will grabbing the gun is only in his head, like Vecna did with Max in her mind
Do you have a camp half-blood bag?! I just noticed it in the background so I’m just wondering. EDIT: And I also just noticed a YANKEES BASEBALL CAP! If that is not Percy Jackson I will lose my mind!
I like it that the stage play addresses the question of how Henry got his powers, since he pre-dates the experiments that produced Eleven and the other children of MKUltra. However, I feel like the parts of the play that contradict the tv show are a let-down and a sign of poor planning on the part of the writers. In order for science fiction and fantasy stories to truly work, they all need to have a kind of internal logic that governs the system of magic/psychic abilities/advanced technology/otherwordly creatures and dimensions for the stories to make sense and for viewers to understand and accept the things the characters and creatures can do. We can suspend our disbelief to a certain extend, but if there's too much internal contradiction of the internal logic of the story, it makes us feel less like we're entering the world of the story and more like "it's just like this" because this is a cop out or the writers just decided this is how they want it to go without a real sense of how it logically fits in with the bigger story or world.
Could the high school counselor be Henry Creels daughter possibly? Or some type of Creel family relative that may tie to her? I.e. the clock necklace she wears could be a charm to stop time? She could be another sister of Bob Newby, possibly? She really enforced to Max that she can’t help her unless she tells her what’s going on to unlock that clock necklace, and can’t say it herself ?
When you realize Vecna and Joyce could’ve been “related” in some way, bc Joyce dated Bob and Bob’s sister is Patty and Patty and Vecna liked each other- (But Bob died and Patty died). Buttt that never happened. 😅
The dimension x thing reminds me of the last fantastic four movie thunk they even called it dimension x looks pretty similar when they go there and after they retrieve the guy that got left behind that guy even looks a lot like vecna and has psychic powers like vecna lol popping heads not cracking bones but similar lol very funny lol his goal was to open a hole to our world and suck it into that dimension something like that lol kind of similar lol when did that movie come out lol lots of similar ideas to stranger thing lol
Just my take - but I really hope that the mind flayer isn’t the big bad of the show. We already thought that it was from 2017-2022 until Henry revealed he has been controlling it the whole time. I really hope they don’t retcon it
See I understand but an unreliable narrator is meant to show us things about the character psychologically, it serves a purpose and isnt a retcon (see; the lights flickering leading Henry into the bathroom in the flashback Nancy sees or the lights flickering around him when Victor is talking to Nancy and Robin) It adds to his character and tells us a lot about how broken he has become, that due to his powerlessness and the loss of his identity and all the other things Kate said she wanted to explore with his character, he just wants control over himself. And the influence from the mind flayer has seriously messed him up that he really thinks that he _is_ the mind flayer
At end of this video you capped the question as of why this play is only in England and not displayed globally to larger audiences who are fans of tv show....what was the Duffer Brothers thinking?? Im baffled!!
It sounds like something else was behind Henry turning bad, or someone else and maybe Brenner knew it and that's how he ended up after Henry, trying to use whatever changed him to change others 🤔🤔🤔🤔🥴🥴 i so want to know. It sounds like they were replicating real newspapers 🤷♀️🦘🇦🇺🦘👍.
But is Terry Ives really 11's mom? Seems like Terry Ives didn't particularly want to see 11 when 11 comes to see her; seems more like she sent 11 to go find her actual daughter. But 11, believing herself to be Terry's daughter, misinterpreted and thought Terry wanted her to go find that other girl who turns out to be 8. But why would Terry care about that girl? Terry's long-lost daughter finally returns to her many years later and she tells her "No, buzz off kid, go find that other girl that I only saw briefly once a dozen or so years ago". If 11 was Jane I would think all Terry would want would be to be with her.
@@stancartmankenny maybe but what's up with Kali's illusion kind of power ? I mean different specialities how ? There are so much things need to be explained
Am I the only one my one who is noticing some pretty major similarities between the Stranger Things Henry/Mind Flayer storyline and the FFVII Sephiroth/Jenova storyline? The two are extremely similar and it’s so fun to think about. The question people always had was “who was actually in control? Sephiroth or Jenova?” And now that’s the case with Vecna and the MF. I’m so intrigued by this. Also- the plan and end goal of both are similar as well: to remake the Earth how they see fit and absorb power wherever they can so as to become the ultimate being in control of it all. It’s kind of crazy just how many things are comparable between Stranger Things & Final Fantasy 7. Is Eleven somehow a genetic offspring or clone of Henry’s? Are they essentially the “shadows” we see in FFVII during the reunion storyline? Everyone has a number… just like in Stranger Things and they’re ALL genetically linked to Sephiroth because they’re essentially “failed clones”. This part of the comparison is actually crazy because it’s exactly what we are seeing in ST. Numbered humans with otherworldly powers, experiments, creatures… so is it too far fetched to think … clones? Or somehow otherwise genetically derived from Henry using his DNA? Is he her biological father? It’s so fun to think about the possibilities! See what I mean? I could go on and on citing the similarities between the two franchises!
there is also a VR game (we dont know if it is cannon, but chances are high) of st that shows that the mind flayer tried to control henry but he backfired on the mind flayer and took him over
