I agree about Shiv, people talk like she is somehow the worst character but she's on the same level as the rest of them. Roman is particularly awful but people don't mind because they find him funny
I think it's a response. A lot of people discuss that Shiv is this smart-girlboss-winner, and that creates a response. Also, Shiv may not be the worst, but she is way more hyppocritical. Ken and Rome act like assholes all the time, but she is always taking moral high ground despite being the same. But if we talk about morals I believe they all are the worst characters, that's what I liked in show. They all are terrible people, and what's even worst - most of them are dumb and doing very dumb stuff.
@@alatielinara for the record i do think there is some misogyny involved bc kendall is absolutely a hypocrite in the exact same way shiv is with his “good person” thing. he even says it at the beginning of season 3 - “i’m the real you”
@@alatielinara That's also not true. Roman is the only one who is acting like asshole all the time. Kendall was just as hypocritical as Shiv and always claiming he was a good guy, or claiming (as Logan used to) that he was doing everything for his family (in the last couple of episodes).
Once i re-watched the entire series I realised the significance and impact of Roman being the only one who was *physically abused* by his father. His interactions with Logan always felt different to that of his siblings and his defence mechanisms always felt more intense and the knowledge that he was singled out in that way really makes his character make even more sense.
I’m really glad you touched on Shiv because I’ve seen a lot of people not bother understanding how her ending is just as tragic as the other two’s, and just how perfect it is as an end to her story. She was arguably the smartest and best player of the three, and in the end she has the opportunity to “win” in a sense by denying them access to power, but for all her scheming and plotting she herself is only granted access to that power by falling into place and sitting in her mother’s seat. Throughout the show Shiv is constantly given a real opportunity to be a better person than she is. She could’ve been honest with Tom or continued her career in politics with Gil or connected genuinely with any other female character that let her in against their better judgement because she’s a woman too, but she, like many white women before her, denies all of them in favor of trying to secure a spot at the top of the patriarchy ladder with the big boys. But at the end of the day, no matter how devoted she was and how many of her own loosely held principles she sacrificed, this life as a wife and a mother was the only option from the start. I think it’s fitting that the roy siblings get to talk to their dying father in the order they do - first roman followed by kendall, then we hear he’s already dead, then shiv, and then connor quite a bit later. As slim as the possibility was for Kendall and Roman, Shiv was never even a consideration.
Shiv DID have an opportunity but like Roman she was unwilling to do the work to prepare as Logan outlined, 3 years of training…he meant it but the second she pushed back, that was the moment she lost the crown. Like Logan said they are not serious people.
@@sophiasage1379 I don’t think Shiv was ever seriously considered. Again Shiv was essentially used as a pawn by Logan to further his agenda. I think he meant it when he told the kids that they’re not “serious people”. Again Logan has repeatedly made false promises to his kids simply to get what he wanted out of them. Nothing from the show suggests that Logan would have followed through on his word. Shiv was simply being used to thwart Gil and his campaign, to have a liberal leaning female face attached to help close the Pierce deal, and to ease the heat they were getting from the cruise scandal.
I totally agree. Pretty much everyone’s ending is beautifully tragic and poetic. Shiv gets everything she wants yet gets everything she doesn’t want all at the same time.
Only halfway through this video, but I don’t think the siblings’ sympathetic response to Kendall confessing to the waiter’s death was feigned - I think in that moment they really did feel for him and want to help him, but that just wasn’t enough to stop them from using it against him when they felt necessary. I think that’s why it’s so sad - it’s a moment of genuine connection for the three of them and symbolizes the hope that they can actually come together as a family, but in the end it isn’t enough.
There's another huge difference between Hamlet and Kendall. Hamlet does indeed idolize his father. He thinks his father was the best, the greatest man. In that regard, Roman is a much better match for Hamlet. Kendall, however? He was always torn between wanting to please his father and wanting to beat him and oust him, wanting to emulate him and believing he should cast him down and replace him because he is better than him. He admited Logan's force and ability to win, but he also thought Logan was a bad man, even an evil one, and a bad father. In S3 he told Logan "You are evil" and "I'm better than you" and Logan retorted by pointing out he was not that good by reminding him of the dead waiter. In S4, he realizes he is also a bad father and says "Maybe poison drips through". Him becoming just like his father in so many ways (only not by becoming CEO) was a tragedy - and it really would be even if he had succeeded in becoming the boss of that trashy outdated failing corporation.
@@nazchoz798 hey you're very welcome, i should be the one to thank you for articulating what i love about this show, especially its finale! i'm now a subscriber and i'm looking forward to whatever you do in the future
hip hip hooray!! i love succession analysis i have so many thoughts about the show and you articulated loads of them and some other things i hadn’t considered!! epic and cool :D
Thank you for this interesting analysis. I think water for Kendall represents the amniotic fluid in the fetus, last moment of fusion with his mother. Same theme in Too much party with the reconstituted vagina of his mother. Among the ROY-ALS the ELDEST BOY inherits of power and girls are pushed aside. Shiv may have imagined that she would still pushed aside perhaps in favor of Stewy. Shiv changed her mind about Tom after he betrayed her and thus showed independence and more confidence in himself. He became more attractive to her. This last season : - she kept her wedding ring untiil the end, - she didn't divorce, - she didn't have an abortion even though she thought about it, - she "the girl inside Waystar" safeguard the "Tom of Siobban"s position at the head of ATN by establishing the Kill list for Matsson., - she played publicy at Bitey-> TOM WAMBSGANS FINALLY MADE ME FEEL SOMETHING ! In their last phone call, Tom agrees to an amicable divorce (Czecoslovakia->Velvet Divorce) and she didn't follow up this proposal. Tom notices : IT WOULD BE CONVENIENT BECAUSE YOU WOULD BE MARRIED TO YOUR HUSBAND and YOU'VE FALLEN IN LOVE FINALLY WITH OUR SCHEDULING OPPORTUNITIES. By her voting, she goes back to their original plan which was support him to become CEO. But now, she respect him more, because their balance of power is more balanced than ever. Their finale, which resembles the finale of The Graduate, is a sort of "armistice " to their marital fight. I think that if they go together, it's because it suits them perfectly. They're not really useful to each others anymore. Nothing forces them to do so. In the car, Shiv is on the verge of tears because the sale is heartbreaking and a defeat for her too. While they both know that it's thanks to her vote that Tom become CEO, Shiv "CONGATULATES" him because he won everything he wanted from the beginning : Shiv + CEO + Money + Child. He responds with false modesty : OH NO NO, while inwardly jubilant. With the billions from the sale, she can return to politics or or buy herself or create a business. The finale of this show is more bittersweet than tragic because they're definitively freed from their father's toxic influence. Now,they can make their own way and try to grow up a little. End of SCRIPT BOOK for Shiv and Tom in the car : An accomodation, an equilibrium that could last with a certain stabilty, proxy wars and detentes for many years to come..nothing needy from either side. Podcast HBO SUCCESSION "With open eyes" Part II with Mark Mylod (who directed 16 episodes) on RU-vid
I think Kendall was definitely the most qualified and businesswise was winning in season 4. And though we got the ending that was most fitting, it still didn't warm us to Shiv because of the spitefulness of it all. At least Roman and Kendall wanted to try and keep it in the family no matter what happened. But Shiv willingly sold out to a man that admitted he was going to sell off the company for parts. And while Logan rightfully labeled them as not serious people, Kendall did the same thing to his siblings in season one. Shiv was just leveraging for political power at the time, Roman couldn't get a job his father couldn't give him and Connor was in his own world.
I don't buy into the idea that Kendall or Roman really cared about keeping the company "in the family" - feels like that empty line Logan would recite about family being super important, they probably recognised that it was the best (and only) shot of them maintaining power. I do agree that out of the three, Kendall would seemingly make the most sense - but don't think that says a lot about his abilities! I think the whole show warmed us to Shiv's decision at the end. Everyone in the show is spiteful and toxic and I don't think Shiv is more egregious than the others - Kendall has pulled similar (and arguably, more dramatic) stunts throughout the show when he felt he was on the back foot. Edit: I also don't think Shiv's decision was a planned power move; the idea of Kendall being CEO was probably just too distressing to accept (re:big daddy issues/trauma).
I think the impact of major events (the rocket launch, election) is glossed over purposefully. The roy family is so big that they are not impacted by things that would have major repercussions for another entity. Obviously there is an outcome they want, but if they dont get it, they can still keep playing without having to re-evaluate too much because the hand they were dealt is so vast and they can always buy more chips if they need to. (at least, that is how they view the world because thus far it has been the truth)
Its just a small section, a birds eye view of the sort of people who run the world today. Or rather those who are striving to reach that position. They have most of the attributes, but need to slide even further down the slippery slope to the slime at the bottom to claim the prize, and be as much of a slime ball as their Father. Very entertaining but not dark enough to claim any hint of reality. The black eye was the nearest reference. What was happening in the basements? You just dipped your toes in, and played in the cat litter.
