Super Saiyan 4 - Exposing The Big Problem 

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Tails were always one of my favorite design choices for dragon ball specifically in og dragonball with goku

The whole concept of ssj4 is just great. 1. The saiyan basically has to have access to the super saiyan transformation 2. They have to maintain their tails and consciousness while in great ape form. 3. Then transform into golden great ape (basically super saiyan great ape) and then transform into ssj4 So basically the combination of great ape + super saiyan = super saiyan 4 that is such a cool concept and brilliant writing. Better than ssj god and blue. The god forms had a decent concept but it was ruined by keeping ssj god around instead of leaving goku and vegeta with ssj blue.

Vegeta GT = 🐐

They should've just had Vegeta do what he did in the past and have him wrap his tail around his waist. Just have it above his belt. That would have looked good.

For real? They complained about it not being earned? Really. They complained about goku turning ss3 and blue and how they wished it coming out like super saiyan.

Goku didn't regrow his tail from magic. It was from grinding coffee for Elder Kai. There's a pretty sad reason that can be extrapolated from the Perfect Files for why Vegeta's tail is gone after he lost the form. Goku's "special case" within GT appears to be that he is the Legendary Super Saiyan.

Vegeta (GT) was shown to be one for self growth and not relying on others, if he can help it, to achieve greater heights of power. Plus the designs for both SS4 Goku & Vegeta are still loved, respected to transformations without any limits to their forms.

This was put together really well! I respect how you explained the connection of SS4 to the methods of getting it.

Another great video, Saiyan Scholar. I don’t have a lot to say about it, but it did intrigue me how much there is to Super Saiyan 4 and it’s requirements. It’s really fascinating.

I seriously wanted for Babidi to have used one or more of his Dark Magic Spells to have done Fission on Vegeta in a very similar manner to how Majin Buu had split himself in-between Good Buu and Pure Evil Buu, as it would have been much more interesting to have seen how different the rest of DBZ, DBS, and DBGT would have been if Babidi had permanently and without consequence separated Vegeta's good side from Vegeta's bad side. And with the personification of Vegeta's bad side pretty much being a Saiyan version of what Piccolo Daimaō and Pure Evil Buu actually are before becoming even more like an actual Demon from Babidi converting Pure Evil Vegeta the Demon Prince into Majin Vegeta the Demon Prince of Destruction too.

Vegeta always had superior base to Goku.

Kid goku regrew his tail twice People keep forgetting that

If we assume that Golden Oozaru is True Super Saiyan, and the golden haired, green eyed humanoid forms to be genetic glitches from turning super saiyan without a tail. I believe that the only reason why Goku and Vegeta were able to transform from Golden Oozaru to SS4 in the first place is because of their mastery of the earlier forms of SS Grade 1-6. Each grade tapping into more of the Golden Oozaru's power. Unlocked via training. For instance. Someone who transformed into Golden Oozaru without being able to transform into a humanoid Super Saiyan would have absolutely no chance of transforming into a SS4. SS4 is like True Super Saiyan Grade 2 in that regard.

I never understood people saying that vegeta and Goku cheating to unlock super Saiyan 4

I think had he not lost his tail Vegeta would have kept his as a sign of his sayan pride

There is one obvious potential explanation for the lack of tail post ss4 on Vegita. The clothing from ss4 is clearly created similarly to the clothing during fusion but when Vegita transformed back to base form he was back to the pants he had before that had no opening for a tail and the new appendage was just trapped under the clothing.

I think if a saiyan is able to have access to the oozaru state in their base form like Broly in dbs, he could go to ssj4 after having control. I think that would be the next step for Broly in the future of dbs.

love the omega and vegeta skit😂

Im gonna rewatch GT today.

14:19 in fact, I think Vegeta losing his tail once he lost his SS4 transformation makes sense. I mean, they are artificially reviving a limb he has lost a long time ago. It's like using prosthetics: you need that prothesis to replace that limb you lost. The prothesis in this example are the Blutz Waves. And I have to add that they were using an experimental method, that (as you said) was the only thing they were allowed to do at the moment (and Vegeta has Baby to thanks for the knowledge and technology for this, ironically). Perhaps, with more time for research, Bulma would have been able to device a way to fully revive his tail, but they didn't had that time. And Vegeta's situation was different to Goku's. We can guess that Goku recovered the potential to regrow his tail thanks to Pilaf's wish, that magically transformed Goku into the child Pilaf remembered, including his ability to regrow his tail. Vegeta was basically forcing his body to regrow a lost limb from nothing. As for the tail just disappearing, well, saiyans are shapechangers. I mean, they can turn into great apes. Their body is weird like that, lol And we know that by the time of the events Heroes, Goku and Vegeta Xeno (who are highly implied to be the same GT individuals, with just some extra adventures on their record) learned to regrow and "hide" their tails at will, losing any disadvantages their tails gave them, while gaining the ability to go SS4 at will. Great series of videos, anyway 😊

Makes sense to me 😊

so does that mean vegeta has to repeat the whole blutz wave process every time he wants to go ssj4? or will his tail just pop out everytime he transforms?

Honestly, I actually really like the SSJ4 transformation (one of the very few good things about GT), I just don't like it as SUPER SAIYAN 4. I think the callback to the mostly forgotten Oozaru form is fantastic, and it's a great looking design, it just has no logical progression from the standard super saiyan forms. And besides that, it just being the next super saiyan form is boring! It's a far more interesting concept for them to be going back to an older form and using their new powers to uplift it to something better. Basically, I prefer the idea of 'super saiyan 4' as an evolution of the Oozaru form, NOT as the next stage of super saiyan. There's even precedent for this becoming a thing in canon material, because of DBS Broly. His power is said to have a focus on his Oozaru state, so he could be a key player in bringing the SSJ4 form into canon, just as something slightly different. I'm sure this won't actually happen, but I'd love to see it, because I DO like the design and think it'd be a shame if it was just locked away in GT obscurity for all eternity.

SS4 Gogeta is awesome 😎

100% I see Gt haters use this too say Gt vegeta is worse than super when they are just blatantly wrong

These super saiyan 4 vids are epic scholar thank you for this cant wait for more content

I can't remember, did they address why they couldn't use the dragonballs to wish Goku's tail back?

You can't say Vegeta cheated and in the same breath Goku earned it all. Goku's had special training several times throughout DBZ. Vegeta never had help. The only time he did was for SS4.

When baby said he has taken over the mightiest saiyan, that wasn’t synonymous of him saying vegeta is the most powerful. Remember he knows vegeta as the prince of all saiyans, and of course we know he was always portrayed as the most powerful saiyan. So that’s what baby was referring to when he said he’s secured the mightiest of all the saiyans. Vegeta is the prince so he knows because of that he’s also the most powerful. Also for some reason when baby takes over your body you somehow become more powerful? Imagine if he had taken over Gokus body? That’s why they wrote him to be in space when baby invaded

I’m just gonna say this, I do not like this form as a super saiyan transformation. I wish it was something completely separate (which technically it is) but just attaching SS4 to it never made any sense to me. Call it Super Ape Goku or Mastered Ape or something like that idk. But this is not a form that follows the regular saiyan branch of transformations.

Ssj4 makes more since as the legendary transformation seeing as most saiyans back then had tails idk makes sense to me

you know, i've watched all of DB Z and Super but haven't done GT yet. i really should. you've convinced me.

Vegeta doesn't have his tail in base form he could only transform from blutz wave Cannon. He doesn't actually regrow his tail in base form like Goku does.

The talks about "cheating" are most probably from the echos of message boards and forums of yesteryear that would always coin everything Vegeta did as "cheating". Used Oozaru against Goku? Cheat. People assumed he cheated to get Ssj2 with the Majin boost but that was only to match Gokus Ssj2. And then the Ssj4 BS. People use to talk BS saying the bluntz wave machine Instantly turned Vegeta Ssj4 for years before GT even came out in the states. The Vegeta hate and Goku wanking was real then.

It’s finally here

In order to become a ssj4 you need a tail, be able to become a great ape, and be able to master said great ape form. So why didn't Vegeta go ssj4 in the Saiyan saga? He met all the requirements way back then.

UnrealENT's excuse of saying "Vegeta cheated to get SS4" was always brain dead to me. These idiots really expect Omega to stand still and let Vegeta get stronger. LMAO

14:19 I agree! i believe the blutz wave should've let him keep his tail! Sheesh even SS4 goku Had to destroy baby Vegeta tail

I feel like if it turned out they wished their tails back right after end of z no one wouldve batted an eye and thats technically cheating too so them getting them back the ways they did doesnt matter and people should just put some respect on the wukong form.

SS4 is the Goat form

I'd argue is it really cheating when there was literally no other option for them to regain their tails under normal circumstances.

I NEED THE THIRD PART ALREADY

I can only imagine how much of a problem a super saiyan 5 would have

Pt 2

I wish vegeta would wish for his tail back to give him a unique multiplier like gokus kiaoken

Mustache Mustache 🎶

Oozaru would not have been useless on Namek. Base times ten, alongside Kaiohken times ten, would have been a 100x multiplier, even if short lived. 100 is higher than 50.

Wait I just thought of something why trunks never had a tail ? He’s vegetas first born just like gohan was gokus first

Even for the tails , they have every right get their tails the way they can , it's supposed to be a natural part of their body which they had from the start but got cut off by artfifical means , only fair they get it back by the same if they need to . I will say , i'd want Vegeta's ssj4 introduction to be as climactic as Goku's too, if Omega interrupted it'd be better , but saying he cheated at all is simply pointing the finger at the wrong thing and exgagerating the issue way too much. And this " machine 😭 " thing people keep repeating , by that logic he's been cheating his whole life , HTC , gravity chamber any sort of external help is apparently cheating . It's cool how even by different means , they made the narrative perfectly fit with both . Golden ozaru being a combination of and clash between the saiyan nature and human nurture , by the transformation being triggered by a human element , the exact things which primarily turned them into the characters they are now , in Goku's case it was earth overall , in Vegeta's it was Bulma .

In other words they didn't want to draw giant apes anymore or tails anymore so they created a bulshit story of why they can't go em back

What is the big problem with you not making a video on False Super Saiyan? We might never know.

Well said

So turn into a super Saiyan 4 you combined the ape form and the super Saiyan then you have to control the ape form then it happen so why he gold when he turn to the ape form

There's nothing wrong with how they got their tails

Goku didn't cheat since he was wished back as a kid to before his tail was removed. Old Kai saw this and came up with a plan to accelerate it's growth. You can argue the reason his tail could grow back is because Goku's kid body wasn't mature (or strong enough) to sustain his power. So his body starts to grow a tail in preparation for a stronger base form, the Oozaru (SSJ cannot be a base form because it's a ki based transformation and Oozaru is a body/base transformation.)

I think they cheat to get the tail but they did not cheat to get ssj 4

I'll say it for u since u forgot to, GD

If you rip off SS4 Gogetas tail, would he defuse or just return to base?

I do want to know, if old Kai can regrow a tail, can he technically regrow an arm?

Still better then MR super saiyan but blue

220 views in 20 minutes bro fell off

So trunks and Goten can’t use ssj4?

👍🏻😊👍🏻

Would they skip ss4

can i b the namekian scholar 😝👉👈

4 is mid

lies tails do grows back goku's tail was cut off in dragon ball and then he fight master roshi at the world martial arts tournament it growned back.

I love the design of SS4, but i hate it when people say "super Saiyan 4 better than super Saiyan blue and ultra instinct🤓" cuz its just wrong and that kinda makes it kinda less appealing to me

Theres dbz blood in the water And everyone can sense it. Dbz is about to break the internet again. But it would be foolish if dbz came out side by side with bleach. Cause they're the last horsemen Of anime