Supercars don't make you superhuman! - The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 63 

Surely the GR86, BRZ, and MX5 need their own Carmudgeon episode on the basis that these represent the opposite of these expensive super cars.

watching this show as a german is always a treat 😅

I experienced something of the sort. The president of more money than brains club showed up at California Speedway with a 930 Kramer. He was an ok driver. At lunch time a kid in his early 20’s showed up in his MX-5 his wheels in the back of his girlfriend car. And proceeded to work most of the participants on the track that day. And I saw the guy that own the 930 give this kid the dirtiest look. He pulled in the pits Packed up his Porsche and went home. I think he heard us laughing

I thought Jason's Dad told the police it was a company car and who the hell knows who could have been driving it.

Derek pretty much encapsulated it when he pointed out that it depends what you find to be fun. It's hard for a lot of folks to unwind the interplay between the image the car projects to the world vs. how it makes them feel when they drive it. Where they fall in the balance says a lot.

The red blooded enthusiast rant by hyphen is so perfect. I love it. Jason's story about the rich assholes during the track day was epic too. Your passion for cars and driving is why I love listening to you guys regularly. Keep it up, and spread the gospel of douchebags in expensive cars versus real enthusiasts. #NeverStopDriving

I love how E30 talk always weasels it's way into every podcast. Makes me so happy!

It’s so frustrating being stuck behind someone who is faster on the straights but slower in the corners but not quite slow enough that you can get past them.

I think we all buy cars for a multitude of reasons that make them special to us. We have an F Type R because the first time my wife heard one drive by, she said “I want one”. While I’ll never drive it at 10/10, it brings a huge smile to my face every time I go up and down through the gears on a mountain road and I hear it pop and crack with every shift, then the gun shots that come out of the exhaust when you lift off the gas at 6000rpm.

Great show! 172 kph is 106.8808 mph (X 0.6214). Keep up the good work!

This is by far the most accurate podcast I have listened to my entire life. And I listen to A lot of true crime

I did a 'try the track' afternoon in single seater (similar to a Formula Ford) on a tight track and I barely scrapped the surface of what the car was capable of. I got to a point where everything was happening faster than my hands and brain could keep up with. I loved the idea of getting faster, but quickly learned it's an expensive (and time consuming) pursuit. Still love to be quick and safe on the road and maybe when I have the time -- and the means -- I'll try low buck opportunities like autocross or karting. And still prefer a slow, responsive car on the street (slow car quickly!)

Jason really cracked german pronounciation! You were totally understandable, which is no easy feat, because most foreigners f.up the vowels and the rhythm of the words. You didnt and i am actually more amazed of your show now than i already have been. Keep up the great work!

As a long-time fan who listened to this while washing his GT3 and looking forward to his first track day, I feel genuinely bad about myself.

I couldn't agree with your supercar assessment more. 99% of their pilots are in it for the vanity and will NEVER exploit the limits. Also, my kid was chasing down a 2020 Shelby GT500 in his NA Miata (good suspension, sticky tires, stock 1.6-liter engine) at ViR.

I gradually learned the evil of weight gain and isolation, and it really sunk in when I went from a rwd 228i to an M240i xDrive and started working from home. That BMW was a _great_ commuter but bored me to tears just driving to the store - much less fun than the 228i. Add to that the fact that my 14-year-old was embarrassed to be seen getting out of it, and it was a no-brainer to dump it. I'm having way more fun now in my far slower '22 Si.

There's also a satisfaction in being able to drive fast without much drama, that's what progress is. It's amazing to be able to take your car to a track day and then drive it home and be relatively comfortable.

28:05 is pure Gold

i see the problem .... secret to joy is car with small displacement revy engine, closely spaced gears, talkative steering, oversteer prone chasis that looks after you. yup kinda difficult to steer jason away from E30 325i. if you're ever curious about 2 wheelers, you should try out Kawasaki ZX25R.

Shout-out for Putnam Park, the tiny little road course surrounded by Indiana crop fields. My first trackdays were spent there as well, a perfect place to find the limits and go spinning off.

There are different types of auto enthusiasts. Some can and do go 10/10ths. Most I know simply cruise around in groups and get a kick out of their supercars that way-they are the 5/10th guys. Kinda glad they don’t try to push it in their supercars-almost all of them wound end up in freeway walls. I don’t judge-you do you. I daily Buick GN 997 turbo manual MKIV Supra E90 M3 & 500E and take out the 95 manual 355 on weekends to hear it sing through the Capristo. Have not made time to go try these cars at COTA yet. I’m probably missing out but not driving my cars at 8-10/10ths doesn’t make me less of an enthusiast-just a different one. Great show! 🍻!

The 997 GT3 RS 4.0 is my unobtainable dream car … They’ve gone to the stratosphere in pricing!

Second the shoutout for Putnam Park, which is about 30 miles west of Indy. Fun little track, kind of a Midwestern Lime Rock,; with 10 turns in 1.5 miles. Spent my first rack weekend there. Good thing about it as a starter track is that in a weekend you will probably get each corner right at least once.

Dropping off a Ferrari at a mechanic and just saying "fix it" is the equivalent of signing a check but leaving the amount blank.

I think of it as what % of the car can I use? In my Elise on a track, I can use maybe 80%-90% of what that car can do. But if you put me in a McLaren 720S, I'd only be able to use probably 20% of what it can do. On the street, the lower power cars make even more sense. Using an expensive car for 0.5 seconds when I get onto a freeway... I mean, that's not much exercise for my right foot.

Thanks to the Hogerty Padcost Network!

DTS is almost spot-on: 172kmh is 107mph. That Calibra would've needed to be travelling at 182kmh to attain 113mph.

I clearly remember David E Davis comments about the BMW2002, His comments changed my perspective of automobiles

The whole vibe of this episode just plucked at my heart strings

In 15 years, Dany and Johannes are the only two people who’ve ever touched my 328 other than me. Good dudes and super nice.

It’s surprisingly hard to find a car which can do the short-haul daily thing, the comfortable highway cruiser thing and be genuinely entertaining on a back road. Of the faster cars I’ve owned, a 1M Coupe probably came closest, but actually there’s a lot to be said for lower powered lighter cars - even superminis - with a manual box and only 100-130bhp, AS LONG AS THEY HAVE GOOD BALANCE IN THE BENDS! And so much of that really comes down to tire choice…

Echoing Sandler, I took my e30 to a POC track day and they were not willing to get out of my way. Last time running with them. Conversely the Alfa Club shows people that they need to get out of the way

Another great podcast, guys. Your rant about not being able to enjoy cars on the street is also an old rant. I remember a review of a Porsche 928 in the late 80s in Automobile by Robert Cumberford. He said the car was extremely competent. But, when he took it on a twisty road in the Napa/Sonoma area, he said it was positively boring. This was a "fun" road he'd driven many times years before in his Porsche 356 and had an absolute blast at the limit. The car needed a cool down for the engine and brakes afterword. For the 928? It was nothing. Absolutely nothing.

It's the best time of my day listening to the podcast and Jason's unexpectiness makes this episodes such a treat to watch

I only know the other ending to the "Nach dem Essen..." saying, which is "...bohr ein Loch und fick die Wand" - so Jason knows the older, even more offensive one :D

These people buying new cars for the wrong reason is a good thing. They get tired of them and sell them to true enthusiasts eventually. I think the bigger problem is when those same people that don’t know or don’t care buy the more hardcore older versions just because they’re a “better investment” or because they will be seen as “connoisseurs”. Then you have 996.1 GT3 RS going for insane money just to end up as an asset in a collection where they will never be driven in anger.

this makes Mondays so much easier to bare.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Perfect theme/feeling through the whole show.

This was a great episode

Cracked up so many times watching this. My most looked forward to event for my Monday commute. BTW Jason your kmh to mph math is way off! 106 mph…

Alot of what they said also relates to motorcycles. Every bike deserves a rider, but not every rider deserves a bike. Riding a 1000cc and getting passed at the track by a kid in a ninja 400.

What I wouldn't do to hang out with you guys for an afternoon. You just get it. Most "enthusiasts" just want a 700hp, paddle shifted, computer on wheels but they don't know (or realize) that Experience and engagement is everything. And of course, being able to exploit your car is the pinnacle to ownership. I say this all the time that 300hp is truly the sweet spot for a sports car on the street that you can exploit to a moderate level safely. And furthermore I detest people who just buy things as a flex for the gram. I post plenty on the gram but it's because I genuinely love the cars and want to share them (and my experiences with them) with others. And I drive the shit out of them.

The feel of the transmission.. the sound of the engine howling.. the smell of a hot rear axle ... the scratched porsche badge.. the strong brake pedal. Ahhh

I get the get what you want. As a junior sergeant I had a G8 GT. It had a minor fender bender so it I did a gxp front end swap. It had kooks full length headers livernois heads and cam. Gxp mufflers. Loved it to death. I used to drive 5 hours for the monthly g8 meetings just outside Houston. Good times.

You know who I was watching reviewing an S65 coupe? Jonny Lieberman. Why dont you guys have him on the show sometime?

Omg, I love your conversations. Even though you are American 😂 I still love them. I really need to teach Jason how to mimic an English accent though 😱

Oh fricken...now i must learn ze deutch

I used to drive my old MK4 Golf GTi until the brake pedal went long down county roads & loved it. I then bought an Miata (Actually a Eunos Roadster V-Special) a rare Japanese and thraped it everywhere. I eventually got enough money to buy a 986, then a 996! Also thraped those within an inch of their lives and blew the engine on the 996. Which was then replaced with a 190E 2.6 (6cyl) and I autocrossed it (Autosolo here in the UK) until it died. Then the same with an Alfa Romeo 147. I currently drive a new Mini Cooper S (192hp Manual 1200kg) which is a little pocket rocket. I like all cars but I like driving them hard and on the limit, I'm not rich I work a normal job but I compromised various other areas of life to buy stupid fast shit and I've loved every minute of it. I'd love to own a super car to do track days with but it's beyond my financial means, but I think a Caterham might be doable one day. I too wish more people who owned fast cars knew how to drive them, but I don't judge either, what ever makes you happy. But passing someone in a super car in an old shit box is one of life's true pleasures.

Nach dem Essen... I know that rhyme, but i never heard the rest after "gebrauchen" 😮. I mean i heard the rhyme when our secretary loudly mentioned it. (the lady was 3 years younger than me) When my working collegue stated "Nach dem Essen sollst du ruhen, oder 1000 Schritte tun." Wondering if i should translate the whole saying...

The "Supercar performance = Stratospheric repair costs" if you mechanically or body-wise damage it equation combined with the "more money than talent" old adage often result in the outcomes that Jason & Hyphen describe and many of us have frustratingly experienced on circuits or fast back roads being held up in our less powerful machinery. There's also a lot to be said for experience and track time and it often seems that those with Supercars arrive at their first track experience as cheque-book racers without having cut their teeth on cheaper, slower but semi-disposable sportscars in which drivers have developed some craft and capability and that includes experiencing mistakes (& recovering - or not) at relatively sane speeds. So in a sense it's a right of passage that builds the capability that often results in these embarrassing, ego bruising outcomes. And as always, the answer is Miata!

The reason I want a supercar Is to just absolutely fly on mountain roads In between 2:00 - 4:00 AM when no one's around at the absolute limit of both the road and the car whilst listening to the screaming or howling noise of the engine and I feel like every other reason you'd want a supercar would make you a douchebag, but could I blame you for those other reasons tho? I'm not sure..yet another great episode tho, felt like 10 minutes had passed Instead of an hour.

Tell Derek he can sit, relax, and stop flexing lol

Hey guys love the show, but can we tweak sound a little? Jason is mostly quiet and Hyphen quite loud, if it’s loud enough to hear Jason then Hyphen’s voice blows you out.

Shout out from Indiana, home of Putnam Park. :)

TBH you should stay in the middle lane left lane is for passing right lane is for merging in and out ideally middle lane will have a speed 5 to 10 over. right lane is speed limit or 5 over.

Makes me feel better about my s209. Over priced, under powered. Flawed from many conventional metrics but man, does it feel amazing when I get in to boost on a cool summer night on some backroads . Love this content

Thoughts on corvettes and vipers for backroad fun?

Ganz schwieriger Anfang Jungs :D

Insert line from Nick Cage Gone in 60 Seconds… “There's too many self-Indulgent wieners in this city with too much bloody money! Now, if I was driving a 1967 275 GTB four-cam...”

"some of my best friends are douchbags" lol

And I love Asian imports like the r34 not because I could drive it (mostly cause I'll never own it! 😹) . I watch y'all too get an understanding of the enthusiast area of car love. Like I've never been into Euro rides but from watching y'all I've grown to see the love for them.

DTS saying he is an angel always reminds me of this other guy who shows up on these podcasts, and rages about idiots in cars called hyphen.

As a serious comment: I am pretty sure i can't use 100% of the cars capabilities, and anyone who things is maybe overstting his/her abilities. But to me it also means there's a safety margin of the cars capabilities i am leaving on the table which could save my or someone elses ass if need be. I mean i never had the chance to drive on a racetrack. I usually rate my abilities on the car with how much experience i have in driving it on snow or slippery conditions. Because it shows how a car reacts at the limit on way slower speeds. (So before i have't at least done one real winter in it, i am more cautios as i can not really predict how it will react at the limit, and i don't want to find out when there is traffic and i have no safe space to not crash into something) And as for the big hp numbers: for a few years now i have an E63 (one of the last with the 6.2) and going up alpine roads, the 525hp means i have a safer chance of passing people who are not into driving in a spirited manner. With something like a Mazda MX5 (Miata) or GT86 i doubt that i could overtake them in the few safe spots there are. Because at those points "Grandpa" is going to floor it in his small Turbodiesel SUV to net let the idiot in the "flashy" sportscar overtake him, but the "old" big Merc i am blessed with on one hand doesn't look as flashy and "offensive" as a sporty car and on the other hand i can choose to not care if Grandpa floors it... High Power (to weight ratio) if used correctly can be a safety thing. Or not... I see Bikers quite often who overtake at times when i would rate it suicidal. Those specialists are not able to comprehend that someone driving like themselves could be oncomming traffic. Since i have such a fast car, before each time i overtake someone i think about someone like myself comming from the other direction, and then judge of there would be enough space to make it safely.

All I want is a Miata with 4 cylinders and just enough power to get me all the fun I need on the streets :D

I remember a guy in a GT3 at the Porsche experience center track in Atlanta going so slow that his instructor made him pull to the side because I was riding his ass in a 718 boxster, I embarrassed the fuck out of that guy.

There are two things that I don't understand about supercar owners - buy them to exclusively drive as a daily and buy them to show off to others. The new supercars are so competent that reaching 100% is nearly impossible. I don't have a problem for a person who never tracks the car but goes canyon carving reaching 70-80%

6:14 apparently the German saying needs to be updated, "Jason steering, gets expensive". At least for his dad that day...

been refreshing YT until this came up - thanks again for the language lessons #lonelyplanet

What about these: "How do you do in your Gummischuh?" or "Sleep very well in your eisern Bettgestell" or "I think I spider". :D

Great podcast. I felt a kindred spirit listening to you guys. I’m a hoarder like Jason. Last “supercar” I owned was a 991.1 GT3. Boring AF on the street. Thankfully me and two friends bought that car to do track days, and we did like 50+ in the 3 years we had it. My stable consists of cars I’m sure you approve of, and the douche Ferrari I have is an F430 spider which I had converted to a stick, for the reasons you guys mention. Totally different (better) driving experience for sure. Keep up the good work.

'How to douche proof your Ferrari' would have been a much better title.

You guys should have clips

If Derek's definition of fun is being "at or beyond the limit" then why does he like motorcycles? A device where you die if you exceed the limit

This episode feels like deja vu talking about the same stuff, lol.

The reason douches buy Porsche GT3s is because journos praise them to the heavens and warn them that this may be the last chance to buy such and such car with this magical internal combustion engine. They think they get instant cred for buying such a machine. Then they either daily it, or put it on jackstands in their garage that never sees ultraviolet light or temps out side of 72 degrees fahrenheit. Either way, the car is wasted on them. Damn, I wish I could afford one!

Okay so seriously, the second German saying the recited, whats the translation to English?

A beater porsche is my hero

Hope you cna do an episode for listener questions.

I've worked with a lot of Germans and we would exchange offensive sayings in our native languages. I learned some good offensive Bavarian slang, while the Germans seem to love the word "redneck."

Is it is just me, or is the white balance cooler in this episode?

I think the judgements of others for their car choice says more about the judger than the car owners.

Loving you guys more after this video.

Is this a old episode or has jason told this story about his dads car before

Automatics in supercars brought the wankers and douchebags in, but they have since transcended supercars and are ruining the whole car scene. I grew up with a Countach poster on my wall, I obsessed over the McLaren F1 and as an engineer that loves to drive, I love Gordon Murray's ethos for designing great cars. He had a hard time selling his vision in the 90s, but quickly sold out of the T.50 today. Super cars used to be owned by eccentric rich people, possibly daring and not afraid of death by Lamborghini, and even at one point a used Lamborghini was obtainable for an upper middle class boomer. Now these once not super popular cars are bought by wankers to show everyone what exquisite taste they have by buying a pure drivers car. The manual 00s supercars that their transmission preference made rare are now in demand and big bucks. $1MM to have bragging rights for owning a manual Murciélago. And now Radwood has brought their attention to a whole new market of cars in which they can inflate their prices. I remember staring at $25k NSXs my junior year of college dreaming of owning one in a few years. Nope, "they" decided they are no longer underpowered and are instead the most pure driving experience with perfect balance. I just want to drive, let me have a drivers car. A discrete 911 is off the tables for me, a 997 C2S is twice the price it was a few years ago. So I bought a car that is not on their radar yet, an Evora 400. It checked all the boxes for me, great handling (while having comfortable ride), amazing steering feedback, manual, great sound, relatively low running costs, a great drivers car. And most people don't know what a Lotus is so people shouldn't think I am a snob, right? No. Non car people think it's a McLaren or a C8 Vette. They think I'm one of those super car guys. Did you know the 4 door Mini has the same wheel base as an Evora? It might be the only solution.

best episode ever!

You definitely told the speeding ticket story before.

I'll put this out here, being car "snooty" is both directions. You can hate a super car for being a bad driver, and the doucheness of being in a Miata and happy you beat bad drivers is the same...to me. I got a C8 and wanted the Z51 package. It will probably never go on the track and I don't drive it like I stole it. The idea of I can if I want to, is the same is I can but can't. You want to learn to drive and have the best corner speed....race Karts. You'll learn the line and how important maintaining momentum is faster. Half of racing is having no fear.

"Women steering? That's expensive" statistically true!

"Ford fusion rental car".... Ouch dts... 😭😭😭

Yes we heard the speed meter story before lol. I swear you guys just repeat old stories now haha!

DTS u should def k24 in miata

Ahh the Heckflossen some of my favourite Mercedes-Benz cars. Going rallying with basically an S-Class and winning in Argentina 4 years in a row 1961-1964. There is a neat little film (in German) about it here on youtube called "Jagd auf heißen Straßen" ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qvLEasWwDL4.html which some of you may enjoy. Another great little film is 1958 coupe des alpes ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PExBCwPrFpE.html similar sort of thing but here in Europe.

I modify the shit out of all my cars but very specifically and only tasteful. All my friends do too. B5S4 with catless downpipes is a dream same with my buddy’s 135i. It’s what makes it fun!

Thank you

I like my squeaky brakes, because it tells me when my lazy @$$ needs to wash the car. Squeaky brakes are also cool, because when you know...you know.

What was the fine for the speeding? 🥴

The American equivalent of the beginning bit would be something like "Woman drivers, no survivors."

If there were more race tracks in the USA then maybe more owners might at least attempt to track their supercars. But where I live it makes no damn sense to buy anything more than say, a Camry. But if I were rich enough to buy a +$150000 sports car while knowing I’m not driving for a day to go track it then so be it. To me it really comes down to $ and accessibility to tracks.

Anyone knows the sentence after "Hast du beides nicht zur Hand"? I think it starts with "wichst".

34:15 (ish): I attended a PCA Milwaukee Region event at Road America with my '92 GTI. Unlike the douchebags in the Chicago Region at the time, these charming cheeseheads embraced my GTI as well as my participation, recognizing that we shared a passion for cars and for driving - just at different price points.