My Two Cents: *This is besides the obvious volume difference between the 2 plugins by default* SD3: The kick is exactly perfect, it sounds exactly like the album. The Snare isn't even close it doesn't have that super attack in the higher frequencies, however the room sound for it is pretty spot on so I think it would need a bit of tweaking to get just right. The toms are somewhat there, they have the same tone but don't have the same depth as the black album toms do. Also the cymbals sound more open and just overall more real as you would except from a program at the cost of SD3. SSD4: The kick is close but needs work. The snare is absolutely spot on here, I'd say almost Identical and by far is the closest out of the 2 and I think it's mostly because Slate Trigger has a black albums snare sample that must've been dropped into the plugin with minimal tweaking. The toms sound is definitely deeper but sound a lot more scooped in the mid range compared to SD3, I feel like a blend of both here would actually make them sound perfect. The cymbals are terrible in comparison and aren't really worth mentioning next to SD3. The room sound is pretty spot on, the decay is almost identical but the room tone is a bit off, again a blend of both here would suit the mix a lot. Overall SD3 is the closest but I as said a couple of times a blend of both plugins in places would really suit that Black Album sound, however with tweaking with it you could honestly get SD3 to sound just like the Black Album.
@@MikeLuke Also listening to it now, the drums on the black album seemed panned in audience perspective.But all in all I think SD3 could get really close with some volume moves and possibly some saturation to smooth out the cymbals and hats. Then maybe some, but I think that is by design right? They want to give you a tweakable kit?
143Chippy Yeah, I know. I mentioned this at the end of the video. However, I just wanted to show how both sound by default as all my faders within Reaper are set to 0. So that’s a first learning of the comparison: SD3 is louder by default.
Unfortunately volume makes a major difference... Thats one of the first things you learn in every audio engineering school : "Louder seems always to sound better.Don´t get tricked and always adjust the volumes"... I still think that the SD samples sound richer and by themselves better, but at the same time in the song more synthetic, so I still might prefer SSD
After hearing this, my opinion hasn't changed: to my ears SD3 is the best sounding library out there. Everything sounds so open and full! I play a TD30 and SD3 is the only one that really gets my heart pumping and makes me want to take the plunge into triggering. Thanks for doing this Mike -- you're providing the drumming community with an invaluable service!
I'm aware this is 5 years later, but this isn't the superior Drummer 3 library. It's the rock foundry SDX. Big difference. But I still agree that SD# has the library but it shouldn't surprise anyone that the man who created the sound in the first place recreates it best.
SD3 wins by far! The snare on the Slate drums sounds ok but as I saw someone else mentioned - the Slate drums sounds dead. The SD3 sounds surprisingly close to the black album. Remember, Bob Rock says himself these drums were KINDA recorded like the black album, not exactly the same, so with that in mind I think SD3 sounds very close...and they were recorded with the man himself. Also, would you really want a drum sound that sounds exactly the same? What would you do with that....a black album cover recording? If you want to record your own music you want a drum sound for YOUR songs. Not a drum sounds that is very identifiable with someone else's album. So, a huge thank you to Toontrack and Bob Rock for delivering such a great product!
In the video, SD3 sounds more hyped (the SD3 drums also seem to be mixed louder relative to the music than SSD4). However, A/B with the original Enter Sandman, and it becomes quite apparent that SSD is far closer to the original.
The superior drummer 3 with Rock Foundry SDX snare seamed to showcase WAY more dynamics in tone as the velocities changed, also liked HiHats much better. Thanks!
Well Pretty clear choice. Either Pick the guy that produced the album and knows exactly how Randy Staub mixed everything because he probably still has the notes from the sessions or a guy that made an effort to recreate the sound as closely as possible . The Superior Drummer 3 mixes I would go with as a no brainer. They would be far more authentic as Bob Rock knows the exact settings for EQ, Comp, Reverb the whole nine yards. Personally I'm so interested in the midi file for this as I am the learning the settings Bob Rock and Randy Staub used for this I think that's where the real gold is.
If you listen to the original Metallica recordings then listen to this demo the SSD4 sound much more like the record then SD3. Superior Drummer sounds like a cover band playing the tune, which sounds really nice but does not sound like the original recording. SSD4 wins this demo in my opinion.
Thin and flabby. I have both and SD3 sounds better; SSD4 is no slouch - surely better than Addictive Drums 2, but SD3 is a might tool with a host of ready drum sounds and excellent plugins in the mixer.
Superior Drummer does sounds better. I"m working on my new video and I was thinking "lets make one using SSD4" But the sound quality was very disappointing, especially the cymbals. So it was very easy to choose SD3 again for my new video. By the way what a awesome sound you created with this unmixed examples my friend!
Because of the volume difference it is not a fair comparison. SD3 sounds better but would like to hear both at same volume to make a fair judgement. Thanks anyway for sharing!
Hi Peter, you are right. I talk about the volume difference at the end and I play both tracks without music, too. Maybe it's a first learning for anyone interested that SSD4 lacks of volume in its default setup (especially the cymbals), while SD3 works instantly. Thanks for watching.
Wow! What a difference Mike. I used to think the the Slate kit was dead on but SD3 blows it away in all categories. Sound quality, the toms are so alive and there is much more depth and realism from the SD3 pack. I'm pleasantly surprised. Really makes me want to run an
Mike, go for it. I already told you some months ago. Especially because your style of drumming and choice of songs, those drum sample software would fit perfectly.
Just stumbled across this video. We moved into a new place a few years back and have some older neighbors, so I've had to cut back on the noise out of respect for them and their early bedtime. I've been kicking around the idea of converting my X7 Maple kit to an electronic setup for a while now and after doing a lot of research on triggers, heads, cymbals, interfaces, etc.. software was the next thing to tackle. SD3 sounds amazing, very detailed. SSD sounds thin to me, not very well balanced at all. I'll keep looing before I make a final decision but it really looks like Superior Drummer 3 is, well... superior. Thanks for the video, the side by side comparisons were a big help.
Great video, great group, great album, great song! In a couple of months we'll see their live in Madrid!! In my opinion: Snare-SSD4, Kick-SD3, Toms-SSD4, HH- SD3, Cymbals-SD3
That's what I noticed the most about these samplers. To me, BFD3 kills (assuming it's for stereo only) all samplers in terms of how raw it is. Superior Drummer is a bit of inbetween. While it is a bit more processed, you still get a lot of room to do your own. Steven Slate Drums is pretty much pre-processed to the point where you are often working on trying to minimize the damage done.
Awesome comparison! I'm definitely partial to the Toontrack SD3 sound. I actually just picked it up and so far I'm really impressed. Now I'm interested in getting the Rock Foundry SDX as well. Cheers!
Hey Michael, thanks for watching. The Rock Foundry is definitely impressive in all possible ways. I mean, I own a lot of expansion packs, but this one really sets a new level in terms of rock and metal drums.
I bought Roland TD11 e-drums and were using Addictive Drums 2 and SSD 5. SSD5 is a real killer, the sound is amazing. In this demo SSD is killing it as well. SSD5 is a great tool for very affordable price. Works also like a breeze with my M1 Chip on MacMini with 16GB
SD3 all day. I just wish i wasn't a broke student so i could get it :( And i know presentation shouldn't matter, but SSD looks like some free plugin off the internet, just... ech.
this is a comparison on preset creation, not the software. If you play the real version, the cymbals are more in the foreground like the SD version and the SD is pitch corrected better to match. Slate could be made a little closer. It's splitting hairs at this point.
Toontrack drums really capture dynamics well. SSD tend to not have a lot of dynamic range. They sound a bit underwhelming. A max velocity hit just sounds like any other hit, only louder. Toontrack drums really ring out and sound like you're slamming them at max velocity. You can "feel" the rest of the kit vibrating and resonating. You just don't with SSD.
Superior Drummer wins in all categories but one... I think Slate got the snare more like the original sound than Bob Rock (On SD) did. Everything else on the SD kit is perfect though... So massively rich and powerful like the sound we knew on the album.
Hey Jay, I agree. Always liked the Slate snare on the black kit. It has the same dirty and trashy sound like on the Black Album. I think when you mix both sample packs, you'll get the perfect results.
SD3 wins hands down imo. I think "Nothing Else Matters" really showed that. Also when you had just the drums SD3 sounded a lot more solid. Well that's my opinion anyway :-). Awesome once again Mike. Great concept and keep the videos coming.
Great video. This drum sound is etched in my mind for almost 30 years and in your mixes, the Slate, mix ready sound is really close! Good job! The snare lets it down for me or maybe that's the loudness thing??? SD3 is a different beast altogether and the Black album sound will be easily obtainable from its vast library. I may be biased having just purchased SD3 though, hahaha. Subbed.
Hey, thanks a lot for your comment. Truth is, I didn‘t mix at all. I just opened the two presets as they are and ran the songs through it - to have a fair comparison. So what you see and hear is what you get, including the slightly lower volume of the Slate preset.
Well, It would be a surprise if SSD sounded better than SD. It's clear that everything is light years better in SD. In direct comparison, like this, it sounds like SSD is recorded in a lower sample rate, lower bit rate and with blankets over the microphones...
@@MikeLuke thank you for getting back to me, i have the platinium version! al the xpansion librarie sand all, i just dont see any names for presets, is all just numbers! i also have SD3 with the Bob Rock xpansion,and it seems like SSD4 is better, at least to my ears
May be a question off target, being new to this world (e-drums) and a recent TD-17 purchaser. Wanted to know if either of these 2 software's allow the user to "build" the sound within the software THEN allow the user to download (import) it into a Roland TD-17 module (instead of using a laptop all the time)? This way I would not have to lug-around a laptop to get the sound I wanted, it would always be within the TD-17 (eprom) module under the "User Sample/Kits"? Thanks
Hey, thanks for watching and your question. Yes, technically it's possible, but there's one thing you need to keep in mind. When you use the software, it will determine how hard you hit a particular pad and will play the sound accordingly - as a snare sounds differently when you hit it soft or hard. So, when you extract a wav-file from those samples, which is possible, and then load it into the module, it will be just a so called "one-shot" sample. Which means, you'll hear always the same sound, or, to be more correct ... when you play softly, you'll hear the hard hit just played quieter - which is not the same as a softer played (!) hit. Hope this makes sense. Cheers!
@@MikeLuke Yes it makes perfect sense how you described it. Which was going to be a follow-up question I had regarding "position sensoring". Sounds like it wouldn't be able to manipulate into the Roland by itself (the Rim, Center Drum, Outer Edge Drum and cross-sticks). Thanks, really appreciate a lot of your videos (ie. drum triggers etc...). Also appreciate the efforts and time some of the youtubers such as yourself, 65 Drums (Justin), Vdrums Tips, and the rest in the "e-drum world", put out there for the rest of us to learn from. I've watched a LOT of videos in the last couple months and learned a Lot, a whole L-O-T. Regarding the mechanics and experiences involved with electronic drums build and playing, from those such as yourself. Thanks again!
Decision made. When I get home tonight I'm buying The Rock Foundry. And I'm going to spend the whole weekend playing my kit like it's going out of style.
I will assume that the drums themselves are not played by the same MIDI file (i.e. copy/paste), and that the drum performance on SD3 and SSD4 respectively has been tailor made to fit the velocity response for each rompler? Else it's not really viable, even if I always prefer SD3. You can get SSD drums to sound really good if you know how they feel under your sticks when you play the samples on your high-end digital kit. It's quite different compared to other drum software (SD, BFD, AD ...).
I am currently struggling with ssd5 I think the hats sound crap especially on open hat beats really bashy and clunky I also find the room mics really ridiculous and fake sounding .I will be switching the superior after this demo thanks
Overall, SD3 is the winner. I will say though that the SSD black snare is a little more spot-on for me than the one on the SD3. Has a bit more crack and attack to the sound, which is more like what you actually hear on the Black album. What is way off are the SSD toms. They aren't even close, and this may be more attributed to mid mapping, but when you hear Sandman, SSD is playing higher toms than the ones played on SD3. It's almost as if the midi on SD3 is more accurate, at least for that one song. I would love the SSD snare, with everything else from SD3 :)
I appreciate all of the work and diagnostics that Mr. Mike Luke has done for us. Where would we be if not for people like this who give us a comparison of products at a level more deep and granular than Guitar Center or some other store front retail outlets that just don't have the time to setup a proper sound room with a proper sound system (no offense meant really GC)! However, the drums and cymbals in SD3 sound very pleasing. The drums sound too thin and the cymbals just not clear sounding on the Steven Slate product. This looks like a case of "You get what you pay for".
Hey Mike. Auch hier wieder ein kleiner Verweis von mir an BFD3.Es gibt da das nette Expansionpack Black Album Drums. Aufgenommen im originalen One on One Studio,originales Set usw. Auch sehr geil.Ist momentan im Weihnachtssale für 57€ ;-)
Plenty of comments about SD sounding 'bigger and fuller'. True... but if the point is to match the sound profile of the black album, SSD4 wins hands down.
Superior Drummer 3's seems to have more punch and depth、but those cymbals are too washy in my opinion。Steven Slate's toms sound too high pitched from the real thing and their kick/snare falls plain in the mix【could be because of lack of compression or volume】。I have to commend Steven Slate's cymbals for sounding much better than superior drummer 3 though。SSD4's snare seems to be on the nickle with the snare reverb too。 SSD4 comes closer to black album's sound in terms of EQ curve【other than the excessive click】、but SD3 seems to come closer in terms of dynamics/punchーbut with a tad bit more processing I think they can both sound closer to the real thing。However、I see more potential in SD3 since the samples leave for more articulation than SSD4。
Thanks for your comment, I agree. When I used Slate's "Black Kit" in the past, I always added own processing. Maybe I'll do another video where I either combine both softwares to get the best of both worlds.
I agree the one area where SSD4 shines is the cymbals. I have yet to do a shootout between SSD4 cymbals and SD3 cymbals, but the cymbals from SSD4 tracks I've done in the past stood out; the skins not so much.
I have both SD3 and SSD4 (and the new SSD5); each has their strengths, but SD3 blows away SSD4 for features and sound quality overall. I haven't explored SSD5 yet. If you're looking for the drum kit that more closely matches the Black album, I leave that to you to decide (IMO, SD3 sounds better in this demo, but SSD4 would probably come closer with some mixing); if you're looking for a full featured monster of a drum emulator / composer / live kit / drum replacement tool, SD3 is the winner hands down (though I've been trying to replace some drums in a quirky funky progressive rock track my band recorded in 1989, and the tempo mapping is buggy - but the song has about 20 time signature changes and the drums were recorded very poorly, so it is an extreme case. I also just started working with SD3, so I may not be using the best workflow).
Ssd5 isn't much better . I bought this last year and really disappointed with it . The hats sound bashy and not musical and the rooms have that tacky la over the top sound . Individually the drum sound good but together they just don't sound cohesive .
Why does the music sound different in when you play the kit in Toontrack vs Steven Slate? The music in SS sound muddy and TT sounds more bright more processing in the sound of the music. I would think the music track should sound the same or very close if your trying to compare the two kits.
The music sounds exactly the same, Im pretty sure its the same tracks, the reverb tails of the drums do make it sound like certain frequencies change but I think the actual tracks are the same.
As a loyal Slate user, I still have to admit SD3 won this one. Should be no shock as the actual producer played a part in these samples. I’d still pick SSD over SD or any other drum samples tbh, I think they are overall the best. But in this case, they fell short.
Steven Slate Drums 4 obviously comes closer in this case by far. SD3 has some of the qualities for sure. HiHat on SSD4 is off but overall to me sounds the closest.
Slate Drums sound a bit "flat" to me when compared directly to the Superior preset, like they are lacking mid frequencies perhaps. With some small tweaking I have no doubt the Slate drums could easily match Superior. I know Slate will be the much cheaper and more simple interface for people that don't want to get too too deep in programming.
It’s hard to compete when Bob Rock can recall his presets versus someone trying to approximate it from scratch. I’m sure if Steven Slate paid Bob Rock he would probably have it dialed it just the same. Maybe you should look at what was done and make your own kit in Steven Slate for fun. The snare in Superior Drums looked like a brass snare versus SSD. I heard more reverb or a specific type and effects in superior drums vs ssd also. I’m not sure why people hate the sounds in ssd though. I do wish there was more cymbals but the sounds are not processed fully. I’ve made some very good snares and cymbals by just adding more reverb, eq etc. Same with VExpressions with Pearl Mimic Pro which has these sounds. I noticed the preset kits in ssd do not have all the bells and whistles programmed, just very dry to start. I do wish ssd would change that
SD has (in this example) a lot more volume, I tried SSD with the Metallica kit and it was virtually the same as the original tracks with very little tweaking, in fact I had to use a different set because it blended so well with the original that my playing faded , I don't think it is a very fair comparison with the volume difference...
The cymbals in the Slate kit are tucked back a lot farther in the mix than they are in the Superior kit. Whether that’s because the SSD cymbals are reacting with different velocities (or not), or just because they’re not sonically cutting through the mix is hard to tell here, but based on my own experience with SSD4, my hunch is that the Superior cymbals just sound better ( certainly more authentic). I have SSD4 and I’ve never been knocked out by any of the cymbal samples - HH, crashes and rides all sound subdued, even “fake” to me. I’m pretty picky about that stuff, though, as I spent years as a club and studio drummer. (LOL, I couldn’t begin to count the number of times I played “Sandman” in rock clubs, always a fun song to play for a drummer). From what I’ve heard here, Superior sounds better, pretty much all the way around, but the cymbals sound far better (certainly more authentic), than SSD ( to my ears, anyway). As of this writing, (Nov 2018) Slate has been promising SSD5 for well over a year now; it’s still not available. I suppose it’s worth mentioning that Superior is a lot more expensive than Slate’s drums ( almost double if you’re not basing it on upgrade prices), so, presumably, one would expect Superior to sound better than the current Slate/SSD4. Based on what I’ve heard here ( though I’m going to continue to check other samples) I would upgrade my old Superior 2 to 3. before I would upgrade from SSD4 to 5.
The cymbals, especially the hi-hats, are far more realistic with Toontrack. IIRC, their engine does a five sample “round robin” at every velocity value so you never hear the same sample repeated twice in a row, which is a dead giveaway for “fake” drums. That and their crazy, custom mic bleed options make for a very realistic-sounding kit. This is not to say SSD sound bad: in some instances, they sound more lively, on a hit-by-hit basis. Toontrack’s sounds seem to me a bit more controlled. But if the idea is to fool a listener into thinking these drums parts were tracked live, Toontrack is still king of the hill.
SSD is more for enhancing a pre-existing "live/real drum kit" as enhancing what's already there with less volume on the samples. Whereas Superior drummer is more for emulating more of a live and real player. Which I think was both of the creators intentions.
Right out of the box Superior drummer sounds good, but i think that Slate might be better if you process it. (Im un-biased I own none of them). Though it quite hard to tell
SD3 are more detailed, pronounced of course, but if you ask me - SSD are actually much better in capturing the original essence of The Black Album. They sound in-line with the rest of the instruments, they almost sound "mastered" and well into the mix. So I guess from the drummer's point of view SD3 is much better, but from the musical perspective SD3 is a remaster\cover, while SSD sounds "true".
Nice and right conclusion. I feel that Slate's snare is a almost 100% copy of the original album. However, the cymbals and toms on SD3 are much more alive.
SD3 Slays! SSD4 is old now though but SD3 sounds way less like samples except that hihat, all the cymbals in SSD4 sound like one shot samples not like a kit though,
SSD4 clearly wins in the shootout if you want the sound as close as Black album as possible. SD3 if you want better overall drum sound. However, tracks are poorly made (no dynamics at all), and with a couple of tweaks it could be much better.
Hi Nikolas, thanks for watching. Well, it would be easy just to decrease the volume of the cymbals in the mixer. However, I think the cymbals cut nicely through the mix and are more noticeable than in SSD4.
I've owned Superior Drummer for a couple years and I keep finding the snares not being that great. There's also a default room sound on a few of the kits I'm not into. The rest of the shells work, but for the money, you should get double the number of snares you get, and more of them should be winners, when there's only a couple that are even useable, and many of them are not in the CORE kit. Superior Drummer is also a resource hog.
SD3 is a beast man. Slate can't hang with them as far as drum triggering goes. Toontrack has been in the game way too long and has it perfected. Now Slate on the other hand, with their analog modeling plug ins, is another story altogether. Nobody beats them on standalone plug ins. UAD with their separate external processing engines that doesn't use your computer memory is the only thing better. Good job with the comparison
Agreed! I love Slate's plugins. Haven't gone on the UAD path yet - their plugins sound really good, but I don't think it's convenient to run an additional interface just to be able to run UAD plugins. The difference to my ears ain't that drastic, so I didn't want to spend another 1,000$ just for an interface while I love my Slate plugins.
The black kit isn't from SSD4, so this video is comparing a 10 year old plugin with a brand new, high end plugin. Just wait til SSD5, I'm sure your opinion will change.
Hard to know what to think considering that Superior Drummer 3 is FOUR TIMES the cost of the Slate Drums. Other than that, the Slate Snare is absolutely spot on. Like scary. The kick drum from SD3 isn’t right. The Slate kick drum would be perfect if a big wide band of low end was added. All the cymbals are wrong. From both plugs. The toms were poorly chosen on the SD3 set, and even more poorly chosen AND TUNED on the Slate set. If I had 10-minutes to get the drum mix matching ten times better - I’d take the Slate set.
SD3 destroyed here. The snare sounds a *bit* closer on Slates but everything just sounds better on SD3 and SD3 has the compression sound right to make the kit pop like it does on Black Album. Slates just sounds flat in comparison.
I luv ur drum play, u must connect both SD3 and SSD5 thru your edrum and play. Then no comparison video is needed to prove the effectiveness of SD3.., I mean SD3 would be winning hands down
