Supernatural 15x17 - Sam is trying to stop Dean before he sacrifices Jack! Part 1 

Gosh, I didn't realize that. So amazing Thanks for this!

Huh, so the mistake of Chuck is Sam, same way as Lucifer once was. I mean, the one who always show the free will part, the one that ruins Chucks plans. Idk if that what you referred but was interesting

I do agree with all parts but s 4.... back there Dean only agreed to work with the angels to prevent his brother from turning into monster, it was because of his love for his Sammy.... any protective sibling/parent would do the same thing.

@@rahaa.sh_307Creo que en ese punto también se equivocó, cuando Dean decidió decir si Michaell fue porque el creía que era el único que podía detener a Lucifer cuando Sam diga que si, esto lo dijo el mismo Dean cuando estaba encerrado, Dean creía que el iba a derrotar a Lucifer-Sam y la muerte lo bajo dela nube cuando le dijo que solo Sam podía vencerlo, ni siquiera Michaell, aclaro yo amo los dos personajes, pero las cosas con como son.

Sam indeed always acted with free will. Whether it was mistakes, sacrifices for greater good or great things. Tho I didn't realise that Sam was the one why Chuck's or other power beings' plan didn't work.

minus the mommy pics, but extra brotherly love power 😂❤

Literally punched Sam after being possesed by Meg and I was like?? Wtf

@@rominahervas3397 Yeah true! And it's not like that was Sam's fault! Dean was just taking his frustration out on him or something idk

Dean let Sam jump into the cage with Lucy. This told me that Dean is not as loyal as he wants to believe.

What are you all saying dean have loved sam more than anyone he literally went to hell to save him are you all sure you watched the show I mean they obviously had ups and down but dean loves sam too much

Honestly what did Sam expect if he’s/there going to kill god. There was always going to be consequences, i would honestly hate to have a brother like him he’s annoying and never content.

@@silvermasktraveler1788 And yet if they had killed both than Billie would have killed Sam and Dean. And if killing God doesn’t send you to hell nothing does and also everyone resurrected and moved between worlds are returned to their original fate.

@@silvermasktraveler1788 , I’d much never want brothers like Dean, and I’d much rather want brothers like Luffy, Sabo, and Fire Fist Ace from One Piece, or Sam, Jack, and Castiel from Supernatural than brothers like Dean from Supernatural.

Dean doesn't realize but free will means people and will disagree with his plans. Dean has hated that the whole series. For someone into free will, he expects complete loyalty.

Well now he got some😭😫🥧

yup so sad 🥺😞

@ya skirt. This is different. Chuck isn’t forcing him here. Dean is being given a choice and he is forcing everyone else to go along.

I don’t think it’s more about specifically beating chuck, he just knows that with chuck dead he can be ‘free’ from everything and not just feel like a hamster on a wheel.

@@konnorpalmer8676 It’s not just Chuck. What about the fates? Death? Cupid’s? There are so many figures at play behind the scenes that even if Chuck was taken out of play, his life is still in the hands of the forces that be.

@ya skirt. That’s what I mean, no Chuck means no plan, which means rogue fates. Death doing what she is doing now. Basically All of the people Dean, Sam, and Cas have personally pissed off with now have free rein over his fate. There is always a hand, be it helpful or otherwise.

@@Crescentknight8189 He was not going to sacrifice Sam. His main reason for doing the plan was to give him and Sam a normal life that isn't controlled by Chuck. How would he do that with Sam dead? He pulled the gun out of desperation and frustration. There's no way he would have intentionally pulled the trigger.

Yeah except Dean used to be the skeptical in earlier seasons when it came to supernatural stuff. It makes me really sad that writers are taking so many great aspects of his personality away and only leaving the negative ones

@@natt2319 I agree, recently Dean has become much more two-dimensional. He learned to be forgiving, but he still can’t forgive Jack and doesn’t consider him family. And after everything they’ve been through he knows that nothing good comes of sacrificing friends. Dean always used to have the same internal conflicts and moral doubts that Sam did, and those doubts humanized him and made him a well-rounded character. Now, where he used to be selfless and caring he doesn’t care about who he saves or doesn’t save. Maybe this is intentional and meant to be the result of the years on the job hardening him and the reality of Chuck’s orchestration settling in. But intentional or not, it’s heartbreaking to see a complex character being stripped down like this.

@@theresat1776 as a Dean fan since the beginning, it’s indeed heartbreaking. I honestly think Dabb just hates dean or jensen at this point. In earlier seasons, everyone screwed up many times but they also had many heartfelt moments and that made them complex. Lately, the one who is wrong in every argument and acts like an asshole is always Dean, while Sam, Cas and Jack are portrayed as saints, with almost no negative emotions. It’s just not balanced anymore.

@@natt2319 @Natt • definitely yeah, it's almost like they're caricatures of what they used to be, like the people writing them don't truly understand them anymore. The lack of balance gets me too; another example is the thing with cas's "secret" about jack, where apparently dean was betraying sam for keeping it from him even though it wasnt long before he told him. Sam and dean are supposed to play off each other, not be polar opposites or enemies in every situation. I still have to hold faith that they'll get the justice they deserve by the end

yup. Basically took back control from Lucifer himself

So very true

Did you post it on Reddit?

Wow, your good

But it wasn't gonna happen because God planned it

@@TheBlackKakashi agreed.

...I thought they had matching handguns?

He's still Dean. Chuck manipulated the rage and desperation in him to a point he'd do the unthinkable. Whatever Chucks plan was, Dean was basically going to be his bullet.

@@selectman6352 he always wanted Dean to be the bullet

Chuck wrote it all. Remember Becky in Atomic Monsters: What you did to Dean, what you did to Sam? This was his perfect ending and again the Winchesters didn't play by his rules...

Dean wasn't going to pull the trigger. It's just like in Burn Notice [SPOILER ALERT!] Where Michael pulls a gun on Sam (funny enough) to catch Anson. Michael wouldn't have actually pulled the trigger.

Dean doesn't realize but free will means people can (gasp) disagree with his plans. Dean has hated that the whole series. For someone into free will, he expects complete loyalty. He's always treated Cas and Sam like shit if they had other opinions than his.

Season 12?

@@DarkHorseDanny cas died season 12 ending so basically he would stay dead if billie's plam worked out but it didnt.

@@KAZ-nn1lb Cas died in season 5 too by Lucifer

@@how2497 Wouldn’t it be Season 2 Episode 1 for Dean when he’s in the hospital, surely that would be his first death. I don’t remember any time him technically “dying” in Season 1.

totally agree w u he obviously went insane for a couple minutes but that is it!

I have hated Dean more and more each season and its not even his choices they all get in difficult world ending positions where choices are hard. It's the fact Dean is always portrayed as either right other characters give him a pass as the bare minimum apology or his actions are blamed on someone else and they go out of way to paint him as selfless

This is the way I understand it now ( maybe it helps :) ): Chuck wanted an ending where one brother kills the other. We saw from Chucks memories of other Sams and Deans in other universes that Chuck was successful in doing that there. However, this Sam and Dean are different, more difficult and Chuck has not been successful prior to season 15 with his plan to have one kill the other. So, he comes up with a new plan. Since he sort of let it slip that he wanted Dean kill Jack in 14x20, Sam and Dean know that he is not on their side. Chuck uses their knowledge of this in his own way when he continues to write the story in Becky's house. He repeatedly has them discover ways to supposedly kill him, only to let them fail and get them tired. He tries to destroy their hope. He succeeds in that with Sam in the what- happens-if episode featuring Eileen, but Sam has always been the Optimistic one who believes that he will find another way with enough research, so he gets back on the horse relatively quick.. Dean is less optimistic. His one mission is to keep Sam safe and he cannot do that with Chuck around. Chuck knows that and uses this desperation to push Dean to full on tunnel-vison mode. To a point that Dean does not see anything else but Chucks destruction. At the same time, Chuck lets Sam gain the knowledge that would put him in Deans way, in order to have that brother against brother situation, playing on the fact that Dean's tunnel -vision has grown strong enough to only see Chuck, not Sam. However, Sam manages to get through to Dean, using their connection and reminding him of the very thing that for Dean is his life mission: Him protecting Sammy. That is where Chucks plan failed and where he (for now) apparently gave up and left them with Jack. As for the parts with Amara: I don't think Chuck wanted to get trapped. He seemed a little bit to panicky then. But as soon as he was he played upon what he knew. He guessed that Dean did not tell Amara about his true plans for her and he used that knowledge against her, making her joining him so that he could break out of that room. Then he could leave without having to fear the bomb inside Jack.

Yeah the writers have ignored a decade of character development for both of the boys... it makes suspension of disbelief very hard doesn't it

@Nate Solo yeah I understand that, and his shunning Jack sorta makes sense after Mary. But telling him he's not family after calling him his kid? Idk Plus just the skill level of Sam and Dean fluctuating and them not putting pieces together that they would've surely been able to in earlier seasons is frustrating.

@@sonja5058 yeah they've turned Dean into a one note meathead who's constantly angry and treats Sam and Castiel like his servants. Sam, who used to be rebellious and assertive, acts like a total wimp now who can never stand up to Dean. But at least he's still likable. Dean is just an ass now

I know that he's always had anger issues, but I was okay with that ... until he was reduced to "practically foaming at the mouth," angry. Actually, I think my strong dislike for Dean began when he wanted to kill Jack because of who his biological father is. All I can think when I watch those episodes is: "No, Dean. Jack isn't the monster. *YOU* are."

@@saimcheeda93 : Here's the irony: When the series started, Dean was my favorite and I really couldn't stand Sam because he came across as whiny and entitled. But as the series progressed, I came to like Sam and I still liked Dean. But thanks to Dean's anger issues being increased to "practically foaming at the mouth," levels, I can no longer say that (beginning with Jack's first episode) Dean is on my list of favorite characters. I can barely stand him. I'm sure the writers are very proud of themselves for demolishing this character.

Well.... Dean was crowned as the ultimate killer by god in 15x19 so the killer motive is in both of the shows...

Yeah Jensen has expressed many times that he’s disappointed with the way Dean was treated, but he didn’t have much choice. Dabb clearly hates Dean and doesn’t even try to hide it anymore

Not only dean but they've completely sidelined sam the entire season and set him up with eileen. The one thing jared has always disliked is bringing romance into the show which is about two BROTHERS. I feel like in some way this whole season is a revenge on J2 for not doing anymore seasons after this. In 18 episodes so far this season, dean has done so many OOC things, sam is just in the background either nodding along to a plan, getting kidnapped or knocked out. Honestly, I'm glad it's ending. Jared & Jensen deserve way better than this crap, they didn't put in 15+ yrs of blood, sweat & tears for the Winchester brothers, for this crap they call script.

yeah even after watching him pull that gun, i knew he would NEVER make that shot

@@savannahhamblin6867 Exactly. I feel he pulled it out as more of a threat. Not actually doing anything because he loves his brother too much to do that. He threatened Sam back in Season 8, not that he pulled a weapon out but he did say he’d put a bullet to Sam’s head if he followed him

It’s not out of line, there’s been times when Sam gets in the way and Dean threatens him to get out of the way.

@@AlViNoChaosKing Yeah I realized after I commented that Dean has threatened Sam more than just that time but it’s not as though he’s ever actually pulled a gun on Sam and that was weird. Usually it’s just a threat, not him actually pulling a weapon out on Sam

@@Wastedsorrow a gun? No but he did pull a knife/blade on him. But when Dean is at his lowest and he’s pissed/livid, he’ll stop at nothing to make sure the mission goes through, and here comes Sam trying to calm him down and think things through. “Equally balanced, as all things should be” I like this episode because it shows that how balanced/unbalanced these pair of siblings are. Dean angrily wants to get the mission done one way, Sam calmly convinces him there’s another way. Amara wants balance and share the reign of the universe with God, but God’s only wants total control and power of everything and everyone.

This was one of the best episodes in the entire series IMO.

@@tulips3243 I agree it's also the best episode of the final season so far.

Yeah he's the best character this show has ever seen!

Yeah, for once he was actually scary, instead of acting like some weird regular dude.

It's really easy when you have magic powers 😥

and the irony is that if he killed Sam, he would never have defeated Chuck. because this is exactly what Chuck wanted, his perfect ending

@Kxnetic and sam and dean have abuse the system expecting themselves to always have special treatment and get resurrected for every failure they have.

@@camgeorge6222 Yeah... but abusing the system is how they stopped the apocalypse. They go overboard with it haha but it's sorta the point of their characters and it's written in the Winchester Gospels 😄 The universe has screwed with them as much as they've screwed with the universe

@@sonja5058 the apocolypes they started in the begining no it's more of if I can't get my way I will make a bigger mess ad complain until I do and act like I deserve it and didn't do anything wrong that's the winchester mentality and ideals old death was complict with it .but new death is a stickler for the rules and seems better and more concerned with Creation than god does so her ruling doesn't seem so bad .

yes and we saw what happen after that in that other world

I thought that was about to happen when Dean pulled that gun on Sam and swung on him. Remember, Dean is the vessel of/for Michael, while Sam is the vessel of/for Lucifer. Also, Chuck Really wanted them to fight. I think he still does.

I like this thought. Would jack be more powerful if he would be son of Amara?