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Surfing Explained: Ep12 Choosing a Longboard Outline - Wide Point Back/ Center / Forward 

Surf Simply
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In this week's episode of Surfing Explained, Coach Will explains the differences between the three common varieties of longboard outlines, and how the position of the wide point determines its functionality with noseriding.
Script:
There are three basic outlines that are more commonly seen within the long boarding community.
Wide Point Back.
Wide Point Center, or a paralleled railed design as its sometimes referred.
Wide Point forward.
As we understand from previous episodes of Surfing Explained, the surfboard outline can be looked at in two halves, the front and the rear. With longboards we generally use the front half for speed, grip and stability when we engage the rail of the surfboard into the wave face, and then the rear half of the board for maneuverability and responsiveness, where we can lean our weight on the tail and lift the nose high out the water to disengage the rail from the wave face and pivot off the back foot to change direction.
The widest point is going to loosely define where the divide between these two controls sits and how the overall speed and grip or maneuverability and responsiveness is either increased or decreased by effecting the outline shape of the longboard.
Noseriding is a particularly desirable skill within longboarding, and such a skill relies on a combination of both maneuverability to manage the riders position on the wave, and then speed and stability to maintain enough support, security and grip for the rider to move to the nose, and so we’re going to use noseriding as our metric of performance when comparing these longboard outlines.
To put ‘wide point back’ into some context, we are talking about surfboards like Dale Velzy’s original “Pig” from 1955 which premiered the design, or the slightly more subtle wide point back of Nat Young’s Magic Sam from 1966, or the more recent Bing Pocket Knife. On all these boards the nose width appears more narrow than the width through the Tail
Boards in the 50’s were still constructed from solid wood, and so maneuvering the heavy boards was particularly challenging. Pulling the wide point of the board back increases the amount of curve through the back half of the outline, making the board easier to carve through turns and by narrowing the nose, and reducing the material and weight up front, the swing weight of the board through a maneuver was reduced, thus making the board more responsive. Equally by eliminating the width of the nose, it reduces the risk of catching the outside rail, and so encouraged surfing closer to the curl where the tight diameter of the wave curve previously made this difficult.
Although this all sounds positive, there is a trade off. With the rail line naturally pulling away from the wave face and less lift from the reduced surface area up front, the rider has less support from the wave, which means that riding on the nose on slower softer sections where the wave produces less lift is much more challenging. These designs therefore require a steeper wave or a more technically proficient surfer to noseride sucsessfully.
As we move the wide point further forward, closer to the mid point of the surfboard, we end up with a more balanced outline where the nose and tail are of a closer width. As the nose width increases so does the stability of the surfboard in trim. Creating more surface area to provide lift and thrust, which is particularly useful in either soft waves, or noseriding when speed and grip is particularly important to the success of the maneuver. This is probably the most common outline we see in modern longboards as it gives a lovely balance of manoverablity with stability on the nose.
When both nose and tail widths are widened further we see the standard outline of the classic “Logs” of the early 1960’s. More recently the Bing Levitator is a good example of what can be described as a “parallel rail surfboard”, where the length of straight rail that is available to the wave face is as long as possible, and so will provide more grip and hold in a straight line. This means that with both an increase in speed up front, and grip in the rails the surfer can potentially noseride in a greater variety of positions on the wave, and isn’t limited to the more technical steeper curve right against the curl - ultimately creating a more user friendly board and experience.
The downside of wider “Log” style boards is that those straight rails can be hard to break out of the wave face when you want to turn, and so boards of this style often use other features such as increased tail rocker to help the rider initiate the turn. They can also become quite hard to control in bigger, more powerful waves, when their abundant surface area can start to generate too much lift.
Finally an outline that has pushed the widest part of the board forwards of the mid point and continue on from what we mentioned before about increasing lift in the front portion of the board. Boards like Donald Takaya...WORD LIMIT REACHED.

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16 июл 2020

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Комментарии : 60   
@mikewagemann4129
@mikewagemann4129 2 года назад
Im going to play this for my wife, when she asks me why i need three long boards. Thank you for helping articulate and understand my argument better. looking for a pure nose rider, now I know exactly what i want. Add in a hatchet fin and I'm golden!
@tylerdurden5122
@tylerdurden5122 Год назад
Only three?😂😂
@frannois
@frannois 3 года назад
every week I impress the line up with my new found surf knowledge. People are so impressed that they sometimes even give me their waves. Thanks surf simply for making me a better surfer in and out of the water.
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Haha well that’s a bonus! Thanks for watching JF!
@nickcunningham7876
@nickcunningham7876 3 года назад
This is the best video on this subject. Thanks for referencing boards available today for each shape. Very helpful
@LongboardSessions
@LongboardSessions 2 года назад
Very helpful thanks! Exactly what I was looking for
@harrisonabry2280
@harrisonabry2280 Год назад
Man, this is amazing! Love the breakdown of the different shapes/styles
@wijakphu1983
@wijakphu1983 3 года назад
Oh, now i totally know why .... Huge thanks.
@surfielgil7348
@surfielgil7348 3 года назад
Very well explained greattt video guys !! Awesome!!1
@HappyChillmore
@HappyChillmore 3 года назад
Sick thank you for this. I just bought a wide point back board
@StokedForTravel
@StokedForTravel 3 года назад
Awesome breakdown guys - much appreciated 🤙
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Thank you for watching!
@shugo33
@shugo33 3 года назад
Thank you for sharing!
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Absolutely, and thanks for watching!
@marcuspotter1265
@marcuspotter1265 2 года назад
Probably best video I’ve watched, hands down
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 2 года назад
Thank you Marcus
@nannaulse6256
@nannaulse6256 2 года назад
Awesome video since I want to step up from my fun board and get properly into longboarding. Thanks to this video, I have found 2 options. One is a 9’0 triple stringer made out of PU that is fairly new, and the other is a 9’6 epoxy triple stringer that is about 10 years old and weighs a bit more. What would you recommend for a fairly novice surfer like me? I really hope to hear from you 🤞🏻🥳
@GregPentecost
@GregPentecost 2 года назад
Excellent video! It's funny that you title this about longboards... It seems to apply to a broader spectrum of boards that just longboards. I seem to like the wide point forward on my longboards (Tyler Riddler, etc.) and my mid-length boards (Aipa - Big Boy Stinger, Dewey Weber - Feather Fastback, Torq - Don XL, etc.) Not that I didn't LOVE my Velzy Pig! It was just a different experience. It also appears that many of the shortboard shapes are wide-point back or maybe middle. Would love to hear your take on this regarding mid-length, fun and short-boards. Thanks! Been watching SS for over a decade.
@leobuss8350
@leobuss8350 3 года назад
Thanks Will!
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Thank YOU Leo, hope you’re getting some waves up in Sebastian. How is the banana crop doing?
@stellet00
@stellet00 3 года назад
amazing video!!!!
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Thank you Mateus!
@drunk3n_m0nk12
@drunk3n_m0nk12 Год назад
I wish I would have had this recommended a week ago. I just picked up my first longboard. I rode short boards growing up but I'm coming back to surfing after a 15 year break. I'm rusty overall but a total beginner when it comes to longboards. Thankfully, through blind luck the board I picked up has the wide point forward.
@joaoluis3678
@joaoluis3678 3 года назад
Hey Surf Simply!! First of all, huge congratulations about what you have been doing for the last years.. Would be nice to see a video about: - hunting zone - the difference between take off on white water and green waves - some techniques to do a pop-up more consistent (my feet never land in the right place :p) - 2 ways pumping / linking target / Vertical bottom turn Maybe it was too much.. ahah Aloha from Portugal ;)
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Thank you for the suggestions João!
@displanroyer
@displanroyer 3 года назад
Thank you Will! Knowledge is barrels!
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
So true Jim! Hope you got some waves during the California swell recently!
@scottybeegood
@scottybeegood 3 года назад
good stuff
@markm7632
@markm7632 Год назад
Great explanation, thanks for sharing this info. I was thinking about a pig outline, but now understand this won't be suitable for my ability or wave type
@happinessandmoney4842
@happinessandmoney4842 Год назад
Helpful
@pierswoo76
@pierswoo76 3 года назад
Great information really clearly presented! Love longboarding when its 2ft glassy and just breaking - theres nothing like that glide, don't love trying to strap 9ft + of board on to my scooter though! I see far too many inexperienced surfers on longboards nowerdays I think they should be looked at as the same experience level as HP shortboards (for many reasons including danger to other surfers 9ft board 9ft leash = 18ft foot of heavily glassed carnage), too many learners jump straight on to a longboard and just want to learn to cross step (I guess instagram is to blame here) and never get good paddle power, turning ability, wave reading ability and confidence in bigger and/or steeper conditions. I think if you can shortboard fairly well longboarding is fairly easy to pick up and so much fun - theres no coincidence that really good longboarders also rip on small boards too!
@Goomer
@Goomer 3 года назад
Thanks
@josemiguelsanchofonfria7104
@josemiguelsanchofonfria7104 3 года назад
Hi!!! Very interesting videos!!! 🤔 I have a question... Moving the wide point of the board front or back we are modifying the position of the center of gravity of the board that defines the mecanics of the board. Moving the wide point of the board we are changing the outline of the board too but what about keeping the same outline but changing center of gravity position by using different core materials or by adding some balast? And what about doing the same thing on a short board?
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
By the time we add a rider and total the weight of both rider and surfboard, the boards actual weight/ center of gravity is a tiny percentage of the total so it's impact is very little.
@Durtydee904
@Durtydee904 2 года назад
Damn good video
@rantes100
@rantes100 3 года назад
Have you seen the Meyerhoffer longboard? I’ve had the “peanut” for close to 10 years and it is a delight! It has a wide nose, a narrow waist, a wide tail that ends in a sharp pin tail... It carves like a short board and nose rides like a champ!!! You should look it up online, it is a true masterpiece!
@davidgough3512
@davidgough3512 3 года назад
Me too. Riding it feels like cheating. Tons of lift and pivot in the back. The tail extension is weirdly loose yet holds like an extra, "horizontal fin". It's a super wide board, but the narrowed middle makes it easy to carry, straddle and paddle. I love it.
@berniehughes4422
@berniehughes4422 2 года назад
I agree! I have the Meyerhoffer XYZ which they have cut the fat off the nose to reduce the swing weight on turns. It turns on a dime as they say. It may look strange and I have replaced the super light epoxy version with a fibreglass board but it is a lot of fun!
@codyborn99
@codyborn99 2 года назад
I've been surfing the 9'6"Tipping Point by Meyerhoffer. Highly recommend.
@ppg612
@ppg612 3 года назад
LOVE this channel! Big thanks for sharing!! Question: @5:20, what's the difference between a pivotal turn and a carving turn? I kind of mixed up >"
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Hi Tzu, a pivoting turn is made with the board mostly staying flat on the surface, where as a carving turn leans onto one rail which grips the wave face. Carving turns maintain more speed and are more technical so are typically more desirable. For context, performance shortboards and professionals are only doing carving turns, so when you see John John Florence making a big cutback, he is on the rail doing a carving turn.
@ppg612
@ppg612 3 года назад
@@SurfSimply Got it~~Thank you for the detailed explanation!!
@tonybeatbutcher
@tonybeatbutcher 3 года назад
Ohh yeaah, my topic!!! 🥳🥳 🤙🤙
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Tha is Tony! Glad you enjoyed it!
@tonybeatbutcher
@tonybeatbutcher 3 года назад
​@@SurfSimply Question: When you noseride, what does a larger tail fluent dynamically do? At noseriding the back of the board is covered with water, with a clasic longboard the tail is lager plus it can be concaved on the tail at the top of the board, the bottom of the tail is than belly. Does it hold's more water like that ? Also I'm wondering less drive makes the board better noseride ?
@brett7794
@brett7794 2 года назад
My break is a East Coast fast close out beach break with some gems but u have to be fast enough to get in them and stay out Infront of them what board would do better
@jamesdiola4773
@jamesdiola4773 2 года назад
Hi. What do you think about the outline of the stewart redline 11 vs takayama in the pink? Im a beginner surfer looking to improve my skills. Surf typical beach breaks here in NJ. Thank you so much.
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 2 года назад
Hi James, as a beginner I would recommend the one with the most volume, rather than getting tangled up with outlines. You want paddle efficiency and stability most of all and a larger board will provide that. Plus the more waves you catch and have the chance to ride the faster you will progress. Once you become more focused on maneuvers/ maneuverability over speed/ stability; then think about outline - and at that point a wide point center will give you a helpful mix of both. Good luck with your progress, Coach Will.
@jamesdiola4773
@jamesdiola4773 2 года назад
@@SurfSimply thank you so much for the input. As both boards are a bit pricy, i wanted to make sure i make the right purchase. I pretty much am able to catch all the waves that i paddle into using my 9ft odysea soft top with single fin and trim down the line. I think im leaning more towards the in the pink 9’2 as an all rounder here in my loca surf breaks if that makes sense. Thanks again coach and i appreciate the input.
@richardbrown986
@richardbrown986 2 года назад
Will a width forward longboard still have a lil rocker ?
@barclaysauers255
@barclaysauers255 2 года назад
And then you have the very unique hydrodynamic rail of the long lost but not quite forgotten 'Morey SWIZZLE'. God Bless Tom Morey!
@nathantotman6663
@nathantotman6663 3 года назад
White Point front noserider Tennille 3 1/2 inch thick it's for my stroke that's why?
@ccoovvii
@ccoovvii 3 года назад
Please do this topic on midlengths!
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 3 года назад
Thanks for the suggestion ccoovvii!
@jamesrosen2634
@jamesrosen2634 2 года назад
hello SS. If I only use a center fin on my longboards, is there any advantage of choosing a new board with just a single fin box? In other words, do unused side fin boxes create a disadvantage? Thanks
@SurfSimply
@SurfSimply 2 года назад
Hello James, an unused fin box wouldn’t make any real noticeable difference.
@patriciabeekwilder155
@patriciabeekwilder155 7 месяцев назад
Hi there, I would suggest you to not use acronyme here... as the one you used is making a reference to a Nazi corps. I guess you did not realize it. This is still a big subject in my area so that it why I reacted ;)
@madsteeez
@madsteeez 2 года назад
Wide point back with lots of rocker ❤️. I don't want to do nose rides.. I want to do turns
@gsmarin1
@gsmarin1 2 года назад
If Mike Casey is still shaping on the North Shore of Oahu, fly there im-fucking-mediately and have him shape you a single fin, square tailed 9’2”. He learned from Brewer & Diffenderfer. My board from him would flex off bottom turns and snap with acceleration and practically throw you onto the nose where it would lift you up thru sections and accelerate yet again. It was insane at Rocky Point, small Pipe, Makaha, and in Town.
@beachsidebooy
@beachsidebooy 20 дней назад
Thanks
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