1:22:00 I am in tears. I am currently a student at BYUI and this EXACT situation happened to me. He is outwardly such an "ideal mormon guy who can do no wrong", and my bishop (who is also his bishop) absolutely LOVES him. He r*ped me and I was way too terrified that my bishop wouldn't believe me if I told him that I just went along in my semester and never reported it. This happened this past summer. I carry that pain with my every day. My freaking accounting tutor even sexually assaulted me when we were hanging out after tutoring. OH and the best part: I have talked to so SO many girls with similar experiences at Byui. none of them report it in fear of THEM getting kicked out because "the boy was in their room and that's against the rules so it would also be their fault". breaks my heart.
I hope u find the courage to be able to leave that toxic environment. It doesn’t matter if the bishop believes u, because our Heavenly Father is is all knowing, and righteous god. He knows the truth, and will cast judgment those who have wronged u.
I think its important for you and anyone else going through something like this to know that, though it used to be the Honor Code's policy to punish students for breaking minor rules when reporting sexual assault, that is no longer the case. They will NOT punish you for anything, including drinking, being out late, etc. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not being honest with you.
I really appreciate the host of this show. I love how after people share really traumatic things he takes a beat to walk through their experience from an objective and rational perspective and really getting into the nuance of HOW and WHY what the church did to them wrong and then goes on to ask them how it made them feel and then validates those feelings. Idk if he's a therapist or just someone with a really high EQ (emotional intelligence), but I find listening to these podcasts very introspective and healing.
I'm not mormon, not even an English-speaker and I've binge-watched hundreds of episodes already. He is really good at it, and some of the guests are incredibly interesting and eloquent too.
...and, critically to the sentiment of the journey, is a great listener, feeler, reflector in what have to be monumentus moments in the lives of the faithful. Simply and only making thay distinction of "quality of listener" ❤ over "quantity of achievements" @@lizzybeary
I feel so so sorry for Chandler. She often laughs-off these horribly traumatic experiences as she recalls them. There is so much healing that still needs to happen for her and I hope she can someday find peace. She deserves peace & healing. And I am so proud of her for speaking out.
As a non-Mormon watching these videos for the past month has been so disturbing to me. As a mom to be so oblivious to your child coming home from school whether it be junior high /high school and not noticing the stress and anxiety and therefore not protecting your child is just absurd! Shame on these parents for being so out of touch. And for these young adults in most of these videos who are listening to their gut - and being able to question the religion/cult is so amazing and honorable. They are literally saving themselves from something they were put into by their families. I thank you for these podcasts and the work you are doing to give these people a form- I think it’s really healing❤
We have to remember many of the parents were raised or indoctrinated to this being RIGHTEOUS. It is tragic this culture and control is passed down generation to generation.
I went to school with both Sam and Chandler at BYUI. I was truly an invisible nobody, so I know they have no idea who I am, but I remember them from that time, and I am so so so happy that they are now out and away from the church and helping support others with such strength and wisdom!
I feel blessed. Lucky. Whatever you want to call it. I went against the grain and married someone outside of my religion. Also outside of my race and culture. That guy. Is my best friend. Early in our marriage, I was getting ready for a date with my husband after our first child. I was so excited to do something, anything but baby care, and to do it with my husband. We were going to a movie that serves dinner. He walked in on my doing the clothing test to myself in the mirror. I changed clothes several times. My body was different after giving birth and nothing looked or felt right. I finally settled on my outfit and we were getting ready to go when we walked outside and it’s the middle of June and I am in a long sleeved sweater. He asks me if I want a chance to change now that we both realize how it is. I grabbed a jacket! Thinking I needed more coverage. We had a fairly long conversation and it was really uncomfortable for me. He told me, regardless of how many layers or how covered my body was. It didn’t stop a man from “using his imagination”. That it didn’t have to be, solely men. Any person on this planet could use their imagination to think and fantasize about me naked. Regardless of what I wore. How I stood or walked and sat down or bent over. The realization hit me pretty hard that no matter what I did. I could never stop the imagination. So why have a heat stroke in June attempting to be overly modest on a date with my husband ((and we have just had a kid……so obviously we “did it”)). It made me realize that regardless of how much I tried to be invisible, I was no match for imagination. I felt free in that moment because there was never any way to be pious enough to keep the whole earth from using their mind. What those people may or may not have thought about me. Was their problem, not mine, or at least not any longer.
I’m a never-mo who has been listening to Mormon stories for a decade now. Still totally captivated by these stories and the bravery shown by those who share them.
John, I love these interviews with a female cohost. You are modeling appropriate behavior for the patriarchy, AND empowering young women. Double good!!! I love you, Carah, Samantha and for the work you do.
@@360playz7 - Why do you feel the need to minimize Sam’s equal role in co-hosting? Why do you feel it’s acceptable for you to make John into some misogynistic male w/ no ability or desire to equalize a woman’s skills & role in contributing separate from their friendship? Why can’t choosing Sam to co-host be primarily because she balanced what he brought w/ his own skills & gifts? That comment was seriously inappropriate. Do better please.
Sam should become a therapist! She is so insightful. I think this story is a good example of why places like BYU are not safer. Rather than teaching people to act like adults and take responsibility for their behavior, BYU makes arbitrary rules like, “Don’t be alone with a boy.” And then when you inevitably break that rule, you’re told it’s your fault for being assaulted. Also, I don’t think frat houses are healthy either, or the only alternative to BYU. Most college experiences fall in between. I think it’s a common misconception of Utah Mormons that if you aren’t in the church, the only other lifestyle is complete debauchery
As a current BYU I student I can totally tell how fake, judgmental, and ignorant a lot of people are here. Another advice for anyone who wants to go to BYUI. Never ever confess anything to any bishop or leader. Look for help from other sources or people. Or keep everything between just you and God only.
Very good advice. If you need help you need to go see professionals. Not a random old man who uses a Mandela of gods authority to tell people what to do, for as well intentioned as any bishops may be. They are not counselors, therapists, or professionals in any area where they pretend to be. It’s so fucked up that the church acts like the god gives them special powers of unearned skill in these areas. It’s evil and harmful.
I once told a church leader I attended a Shabat meal with Jewish college students. and was involved in Holocaust remembrance week. He freaked out and wanted to take away my recommend.
I grew up in evangelical Christianity, but so much of this story is very familiar to me. The culture around purity and sex in the church (LDS and evangelical) is so damaging on so many levels. Huge hug, Chandler, and thank you for being so open. Hearing relatable stories is immensely helpful to myself and all the other women out there who have had similar experiences. We are truly not alone in these feelings, and by sharing openly, we can be a catalyst for change. Lots of love! 💛💛💛💛💛
It is not the young women's responsibility to save the Young men's thoughts and behaviors. We are responsible for our own thoughts and behaviors. We can only ask for forgiveness for our self.
Such a great interview - I relate to so much of Chandler’s story! Trauma at BYU, guilt over sexuality, eating disorder, early return mission, and too many douchey Mormon guys to count. Thank you for sharing so bravely and articulately, Chandler!
Because of your explanations John, this never-mo knows the terms and acronyms. You’re teaching every time ❤️ Another wonderful interview. Samantha was awesome ❤️
Sam’s emotional intelligence is off the charts. Amazing insights. John, as always, was on point and helped bring out the important connections between cause and effect with Chandler’s story.
My twenty year old niece attends this college in Idaho and my other niece attends BYU now that she's back from her two year mission. My brother in law is a Bishop of the youth ward here where we live in Alberta. My one daughter is also a Mormon convert and has raised my grandsons in the faith. I'm a Catholic convert where we practice confession as well. I can't even imagine a priest pressuring someone to reconfess something they've already confessed. I've never felt pressured during confession and always leave feeling so happy and fresh. Even though I have so many family members who belong to the LDS church and live in a community with an LDS church on almost every corner, I wasn't aware of so many of these things that happen in the church. I do know that the divorce rate among Mormons is very high and there is a lot of domestic abuse. I'm looking forward to listening to part two!
Another great episode. Thanks John, Samantha & especially Chandler. BYU I grad here, a lot of what was discussed resonated so much with my own experience. I love hitting on the importance of teenage dating too. So glad I always disregarded that advice as a teen growing up in the church.
Chandler... I feel so much of your pain. Purity culture with clothes was always something I was hit or miss with. On the one hand it felt normal for me because my mom would do the arms up/bend over check to see if shirts still fit propperly and if I needed new clothes at a very young age. But then, after I had a kid... I was at home, in my garments (which never fit and are NOT designed for curvy women) and a super baggy nightgown. And I was already upset because we were broke and couldn't afford for me to go try a new style of garments in new fabric or a new cut. And my skin was crawling and I just couldn't. I was in tears. God's clothing shouldn't be so impossible to wear. And then my kid, at 3, toddles up to me and says "mommy, you should pull up your shirt." You could see my cleavage, there's no getting around it. I could wear a turtleneck and you could still see cleavage. But those words came of my baby's mouth. I was pissed. As a baby feminist I turned to them and said "you don't get to tell me how to wear my clothes. My body. My rules." And that set a precedent in our house that sticks around to this day.
Graduated from BYU-I back in 2013 with History and Political science degree. Generally loved my teachers, but the place was psychotic. Perhaps ironically, the experience was the final catalyst that was my exit from the LDS Church a few years later.
I was given a bizarrely amazing patriarchal blessing. I was 14. I’m now 70. A great life. Also- Lived most my life in bars as a full time rock singer and guitarist. I played 6 nighters, 5 hours a night. Loved it. I still gig. I never broke the Word of Wisdom. Ever. Not once. When someone wanted to buy me a drink, the band guys would say - NOOOO. She’s wild enough!! If she drank, she’d fly into outer space!! It was our big joke. I lost loved ones to lung cancer from smoking. Lost friends in head-on dui crashes- so, I had zero interest in coffee, tobacco, alcohol, drugs. Whatever. My nose is really hypersensitive and I have life-threatening allergies to lots of things others can smoke, drink, eat. Just lucky. 😁
Chandler, thank you so much for sharing your story. There were so many parts I related to completely. Especially the anxiety part, which I still have issues with 25 years after finishing my mission. I also went to BYU-I (it was Ricks when I went). You're helping a lot of people by sharing your story.
I totally relate to being LDS and dating someone who refuses the church. I absolutely loved this boy and it was an extreme struggle of fighting through my programming and my families opinions but it was the best decision I have ever made to choose true love rather than the 'one true church'.
I’m a 61 year old man. Converted to Mormonism at age 20. Mission to Japan and then straight to Rick’s College. LOVED my first year but by the end of my second year I was suicidal. I was an officer in Sigma Gamma Chi, Elders quorum President, Campaigned for Student body President, Ballroom dance team, ROTC, tons of committees etc. it was a time of stretching my wings and finding out what I was capable of, so there was some good in it. However, it was never enough. I was never good enough. I was trying to be perfect, but with each responsibility I took on it was one more thing to not be perfect at. I was soooo naive! I lived at Aspen Village apartments. One morning I started my walk down to the campus and on the lawn there was a pile of empty beer cans. I literally thought to myself “Now why would non-Mormons come up here to party!?” I thought Mormons were next to perfect and they all had a 20 year head start on me so I was killing myself to live up to people who were secretly feeling that they were not doing well enough too. I transferred to BYU and and by the end of my first semester my roommate walked in on me one night with my shotgun barrel in my mouth. If there ever was a case of divine intervention in my 13 years as a Mormon…… it was my roommate walking in to our room that evening. A feeling of total peace had come over me at the thought of the release I would feel at death. I went on to marry in the Manti Temple but she divorced me less than two years later when I started to express my doubts about several doctrines that I could not come to terms with. I was excommunicated four years later because after the divorce I had sex in a couple of relationships after the divorce. It really confirmed to me that I was not good enough and led to much more trauma over the next several years. Now at 61 I have so many mixed feelings. I had so many good experiences as a Mormon but it was all under a cloud of not being worthy. Still very confusing. Still so many things from “The Church” that influence my life. It’s only been the last year that I have come to realize for sure that the Church is NOT true. Mormon stories helped me enormously in coming to that conclusion. I am very appreciative.
Dating at BYU. That culture described by Chandler is very true. Back in the 90s priesthood class at BYU always brought up eternal marriage. Whatever the topic in the priesthood manual, marriage was always raised each week. Bishops would tell RMs they should be married within one year of returning from the mission. The pressure was so great that bishops would tell men to make a list (just like a shopping list) of women in or out of stake who were single Then the guy was to date each woman down the list until they found someone to marry. Less women went on missions then, and so there were 19 year female students getting married. Many men would tell the woman after 2-3 dates that the spirit told them this was the girl to marry. The woman believed it since after all he was an RM. Men who hadn't served missions had few dates with anyone since RMs were highly prized commodities. Children came not long after marriage. There was a whole student ghetto off campus with young looking women pushing baby strollers. Some were students, but many had dropped out of BYU to take care of children..
Not here to talk anyone out of what they have chosen. No judgment from me. We all need to live our own lives. What frustrates me is that people comment, using an incredibly large brush. What Scott says here may have been his experience, but mine and the vast majority experienced nothing like him. Yet he describes his experience as though it is everyone’s. That it is somehow planned. List? Never heard of it., etc.
@@shanejensen8484 Yes bishops told men to "qualify" women using a list. I know one guy out with nearly 200 women before the claimed to have found "the one." However i knew some guys who met a woman within a few weeks of returning and that was it. Marriages worked out for many while others divorced. I even know a couple who met at BYU, engaged after two dates and were married 45 years. I think John brings a valid point that many people can marry too quickly and if there is sexual abuse trauma like this case that baggage comes into the marriage.
@@shanejensen8484 - you do the same thing you call Scott out on. You state that you never heard of a list, and then go on to say “the vast majority experienced nothing like [Scott].” How do you know that you aren’t the outlier here? My experience at BYU was like Scott’s. There was a prophet at that time who was admonishing young Mormon men to marry as soon as possible, and begin making families too (whether one could emotionally or financially afford to). Young men were being chastised for failing to follow this advice. So, I guess since both Scott and me have BYU experiences that align, we can discount your experience too?
Although I didn't grow up in the LDS church, your story is highly relatable to me. I'm ex Roman Catholic (my first doubt of the church was dinosaurs too!) and shame and anxiety about not being good or righteous enough was so deeply ingrained in me and something I still struggle with today. At my Catholic university, I was raped while sleeping in my bed, the guy pled guilty to it, and I was still considered a pariah and 100% to blame for it amongst my peers. I'm so sorry that you had to go through your own assault alone as well. Thank you for sharing your story and know you are an insightful, articulate woman and I'm wishing you all the best!
Extremely relatable to me. Coming from a man who grew up Mormon, "struggled" with being bisexual, developed sexual addiction from never being taught any healthy alternatives. I wanted to be good and do the right thing, I wanted my parents to be proud of me, and I tried so hard, then I would always slip up worse than the last time. Being a Mormon with a sexual addiction is like living a double life. I was so focused on trying to be a good Mormon, but at the same time I couldn't help myself. And instead of being in normal relationships where I could experiment in a healthy way, instead I was continually going on the internet and finding people to sext with or meet up with. People way older than me that took advantage of me. Did things to me I wasn't ready for. At the time I thought that's what I wanted. I kept that side of me secret because I was terrified of the consequences. I didn't want to get excommunicated. It wasn't till half way through my mission I confessed. Not because I felt bad, but because I met someone online (I was on an iPad mission) who helped me realize I dont belive and never really did. I just wanted my parents to be proud and happy. And so i came home and never came back to church again.
This one made me cry. I’m so sorry for what you went through, Chandler. I think you are amazing. Sending hugs!! So sorry the church put you in this position!
I was in the Christian church and my experience was difference, but I related to a lot of what you said. And purity culture and some of the church beliefs led to abuse for me. You are figuring it out a lot earlier than me. Hugs again
Thank you so much for this interview. Inspiring and empowering to hear Chandler's story. It's eye-opening to hear about her experiences and perspective.
As a never Mormon, the idea of going to a Bishop rather than your parent seems like breaking the parent-child relationship. My parents were my “go to” people for dealing with middle school and high school relationships and sexual matters. My parents wouldn’t have allowed the Church to interfere with the parent-child bond! Now as a parent with adult children, I can’t imagine having the open communication with my Son’s being subverted by Bishops. That really seems to be such an unsafe practice. How can someone that doesn’t know your child have any place in the raising of your child?
When I had sex for the first time I told my mom about it and she refused to talk to me about it and told me I needed to go talk to the bishop and repent. I wish I had the relationship you had with your parents. Sadly that’s not the case for most Mormon families. I’ll definitely be a safe place to talk about that stuff with my future kids since I never had that myself
This has been really nice to listen too. I’ve had a lot of similar traumas from the church (my sister is currently going through it with our family) it’s been helping me so much to know I’m not alone in who the church has hurt. I’m sorry all that happened to you.
I wasn't raised Mormon, but I was raised VERY overtly Christian and I relate so much to Mormon culture and the stories shared on here. This episode hit really close to home.
I went to BYU Idaho. It was pretty funny. Around 1994 or so. At the time I was shaving my head. Eventually I got called in to student life about it. The guy said I wasn’t allowed to do that. I told him I had some skin issues and he sent me to the dr, I went to the dr and he was like, what the…there’s nothing wrong with your skin! So I went back and he said “grow it out or I’ll see you back here for another conversation that won’t be pleasant”. The funny thing about BYU I is, everyone is sort of bought in to these ridiculous standards. The DR. Your classmates, roommates, testing center workers, there’s always a rat lurking somewhere. Minding your business was not a thing there. If you tended to stay out late often, or be alone with a girl often, you’re going to get called in eventually. It was inevitable.
John - Love that you chose such dynamic, skilled, compassionate, & intelligent women as your co-hosts. Margie & Sam are amazing & such excellent & natural collaborators. I’ve never seen you try to make yourself more important than your co-hosts & guests or to be controlling in any manner. I love your style, intelligence, calming manner, & how you always provide validation, honesty, genuine, compassion, & support for all of your guests, & especially how you empower all of them.
The issues of sexuality, growing up, puberty, religious belief, and requiring behaviors within the Religious community are all part of growing up, the faith of the individual and the peer pressure are real. The belief system and how these situations play out are truly individualistic. Most young people struggle with these issues, with or without the LDS influence. Everyone of us, makes mistakes,. As an individual you have to take responsibility, and move forward. It is not easy, growing up is hard.
I'm a current student at BYU Idaho. I had a roommate do something next to me in the living room while having a sleepover and it was with a boy. I had a crisis appointment at the counseling center and then the counselor had me talk to Title 9 the law office and the lawyer walked me to Honor Code office. They lied to me that nothing was going to be reported and it was. All of my roommates had to talk to Honor Code and my roommate who did that next to me was blaming me for everything. I became so suicidal. I have never been so suicidal in my life. I have to go back on January 4th and I do not want to. I wish my parents would listen to me. I wish I were financially stable so I could be independent from my parents and choose a better college. Hoping it goes better next semester.
I've always been overweight. In maybe my sophomore year at BYUi, I decided to try a 500 calorie a day diet, and it was torture! My self talk was so so distorted and unhealthy at that time, I remember telling myself that if I pushed through it, I would finally be good enough to be loved. I lost about 30 pounds in a month, and it made no difference. I didn't date at all in college, and it was really hurtful. Bigger girls just went unseen. I never felt good enough. Body positivy did not exist, and it was like, aggressively the opposite in the hyper church culture of BYUi.
This hurt me so much to read as someone who also had a food problems. Literally blew my mind when i learned literal 5 year olds should be eating at least 1200 calories, but every diet was telling me to eat half as much. Hope you're doing much better now 💕
At BYU-I, my lovely niece was told by her Bishop that she was too ugly to find a mate, but at least she should make more of an effort to attract someone. APPALLING! Who says that to another human being?! What organization thought it was a good idea to let this lame excuse for a leader hold the position of Bishop!?
@@maddexq9107 Omg! That's horrific behavior! Bishops should not be giving advice outside of their expertise. Although, that bishop sounds like an expert on being an ugly person, smh. No one is "too ugly" to find a partner. I can only imagine how that must have affected your niece. I hope she's doing well ❤️
I didn't date my freshman year at BYU. So OBVIOUSLY I was too fat. I weighed 120 in September; by the next September, I weighed 103. By the end of my sophomore year, I weighed 89 pounds. Dated all the time. I was a scholarship student so I studied and dated. Anxious? I would run the stairs at the stadium. It is a wonder that I just didn't drop dead. I was 16 during my freshman year so I was really young.
It isn't only Mormons who have this view and approach to children, teens and sexuality. Other conservative Christian religions tend this way and it's a generally old fashioned idea that was present in my atheist upbringing. It's great that you are having this conversation.
I’m Catholic, and don’t get me wrong, the Catholic Church can be pretty prudish about sex and sexual health etc. But we are not essentially trained to be like the KGB/Communist regime where you’re supposed to snitch on people who break the rules. It’s sounds like in more traditionalist LDS communities/families, you’re supposed to hold each other accountable for breaking church rules. And you have to remember, brow-beating people that anything sexual (masturbation included) for YEARS is the most extremely serious crime in the church, that is going to give people serious psychological problems around sex and anything related to it. Not to mention having to go into very inappropriate details with the bishop about it. Other churches don’t have people going into specific details about the sexual encounter. I have been to confession and I never ever confessed to sexual things. Because I am not comfortable disclosing that and sexual things are not bad. I refuse to treat it like a sin.
I’m so grateful for the vulnerability of all that share their stories. I just moved out of rexburg because it was AWFUL. I love that the overall feeling is empowerment and healing going through trauma. Faith crisis is horrible but mormon stories has helped me heal and feel resilience to keep going and to have a life worth living.
Listening to your experience at EFY makes me really appreciate the leaders I had in young women's. There were times I wore shorts too short for mormon standards to mutual, but my leaders just loved me instead of telling me I had to change my clothes. Eventually I realized that my shorts were shorter than the other girl's and made the change on my own - rather than making a change out of shame and fear from adult leaders. I was lucky!
Some people do get lucky - People at my church, the stake ward in Denver, were all pretty normal. No super hardcore Mormonism there, and I never felt weird being a half-black half Native-American Mormon, it just felt normal. There was also a girl my age who wore super super short shorts lol, way too short, especially when we went on a youth trip to the Rockies and they were sheer white when us young teens were walking down the middle of a river and we could all see her blue thong through the shorts. Kind of awkward at 13, but also turned all of us boys on at the same time haha ngl. None of our church leaders cared about the modesty stuff and not in a weird way. They just let people be who they are.
Great episode. Thank you Chandler for telling your story. It's amazing how actually strong you were the whole time you were abused, confused and especially misled. Bright future to you!!!
Okay, this is so weird. I went to BYU-I at the same time and the guest looks exactly like a girl I had a conversation with there about this same thing, which was anxiety around trying to be perfect. I suggested she look up “His Grace is Sufficient” by Brad Wilcox and for some super weird reason, it’s the first suggested video for me right now on RU-vid. Anyway, if you are that girl, I’m glad you made it out because I could tell that the church was toxic for you.
Thank you for making this podcast. It feels so validating to my own experiences I had growing up around my mormon family. I remember a few years ago, looking for content like this made me feel bad and guilty, and sharing that I was looking for answers and other opinions was a reason to get very hurtful comments by my family. Grateful for breaking free from that :)
Man, that tie John makes between our innate sexuality and the subsequent reliance on the church for our worth and our forgiveness and salvation….hit hard.
I’ll never forget the stress and fear I had my last semester there that someone would figure out my “sins” and that I didn’t believe anymore and tell the school on me. I’ve heard of people getting kicked out for not believing.
@@tedgarrison8842 That sucks, I'm so sorry. Were you able to transfer most of the credits? I heard it's hard transferring credits from there. It's really unfair how they do that since they allow never-mo's to attend. I've heard that those who stop believing are seen as "poisonous" to the minds of everyone there.
@@tedgarrison8842 honestly me too. The pressure of the Church kinda ruined my ability to be religious 😔 I don’t think I could go to another service without the PTSD from Mormonism
my wife was in the same situation with the middle school boyfriend thing. all her bishop said to her parents was that she just got a little scared. i guess being raped in Preston Idaho is just being a little scared. that young man was sent on a mission regardless.
I grew up in Utah, in a super orthodox family, and I was a pretty invested in church, but Rexburg culture blind-sided me. This is the first time I’ve heard anybody else really acknowledge the hyper-orthodoxy that is prevalent there. It’s super toxic.
Around 1:52 My response is - Ahh, everyone is not smarter than you, Chandler! You deserve to assert your wisdom and intelligence onto people as you have here! It's a blessing to learn from others like yourself!
I love what she had to say about her brother who has autism, so precious!!🤗🥰 I have an adult daughter who has down syndrome and at the time of her birth we were attending a charismatic church and were made to feel as if we had some sort of sin in our life and that was the reason for her having Down Syndrome. I even had a friend tell me that she could be healed.😢 I have always felt that she was perfect just the way God created her. Only God can create things and if he created an extra chromosome in her body then he intended for her to have it. She has touched so many people with the joy that she brings to others throughout her life and so have others like her!!!🤗🥰💞💞💞
Oh man... it is great to know that I am not the only one. My adolescence was fraught with guilt, repenting, and more guilt. I did have one great bishop in college that , when we went to him for a recommend for marriage, said..."Ya mean she isn't pregnant yet? you bet!"
Consent and the church. Sex education is a real problem within the church. Many members are sheltered to begin with and then they go out into the world and situations arise where sexual predators take advantage. I feel the major reason why this occurs is that human sexuality is rarely mentioned in church. Aside from cases like the family proclamation or discussions of chastity, there is really no mention about sex. For John's idea of sexual consent to be openly discussed, members and leaders need the tools to do so, and be open to the subject. I raised this issue years back when we had an active young woman got pregnant. The father was a male a few years older. The ward and stake responded by telling her not to come to church. I proposed having a friend of mine who is a sex educator come and talk to the youth. The young women presidency thought it was a good idea. The leadership shot it down. They felt the parents would not go for it either.
I was nothing short of horrified after hearing about her experiences and especially after hearing about how often r*pes are reported (and I used to believe in the "false r*pe accusation" fear mongering when I almost fell into the manosphere rabbit hole back in college) but as usual I found some parallels to my experience as an ex-Catholic. I also very much loved and was loyal to the Church I was raised for years (I considered going to the the Catholic version of Bible colleges as I thought more mainstream ones like Notre Dame were too liberal) and in one of the cultier groups I was part of used new names as well (supposedly it was for security reasons and keep our identities hidden) so as a result I followed a high demand version of it, I also felt endless shame regarding my sexuality and confessed it to a guy in robes quite often so I sometimes wonder if anyone would want to date someone possibly broken like me now that I'm in my late 20's. Even then I feel like one of the luckier former believers as my straight, cis and male privilege within the Church is probably one of the things that made me stay longer than I should have. I wish nothing but the best for Chandler and thank you for allowing her to tell her story.
I grew up Pentecostal, and my whole life was controlled by the church. I struggled with anorexic and bulimia from ages 12 to 25. The biggest factor was’t wanting to be “beautiful” but that I wanted to be able to control something. My eating and my grades was all I could control, so I did. I fought to be valedictorian and weighed 80-90lbs on average at 5ft 4in.
I just want to point out the incredible dichotomy and tension in Chandler's story of the young women's activity where they're playing wedding dress up and being photographed in front of the temple picture... when they're 15 and not supposed to even be dating. They're not supposed to be exploring romantic relationships or their sexuality, AND they simultaneously are being specifically directed to think about their idealized marriage.
I remember how I watched the youth group got influenced by the purity movement. The purity movement was not as heavily engrained in the churches I attended but it was bizzare to watch and made me shake my head with what I heard. The thing with the key to your heart was the most bizzare thing I heard. I myself experience the youth group disintegrating leaving just myself and a friend to our own. I met my first girlfriend who I deeply loved and still have some feelings for but we both were smart enough to know that sex should wait simply because we knew we were not in a good position if a pregnancy occurred. So I was able to figure out on my own how I should conduct myself and not cause a problem for anyone,
This was so mind blowing for me, now understanding why I always felt like everyone knew more than me 🤯 I always felt so limited in my understanding and never understood why until this episode. Also her story is very relatable as a mormon young woman, including the sexual assault from garment wearing, return missionary men. I'm realizing A LOT right now.
My wife and I have been able to relate to Chandler so much. Being part of the same age roughly so many things she said were relatable. The things she was told by members, things she felt growing up, things she experienced in the church is exactly how we experienced it in the church this is a great interview thanks Chandler and John! Stoked to watch part 2!
I was same way. I have 8 brothers, hated dresses ect. Also my brothers got to do fun stuff and I was stuck in doing laundry, iron, cleaning ect ect. I fought back I wasn't having it...
Sex education and sexual assault at BYU. What Chandler is describing is felt by victims whether they are LDS or not. I have taught this subject in my law class. Society and the courts typically blame the woman for the assault. The the BYU case I am not sure Chandler would have been sent home. The more pressing issue is that college campuses in the US have honor codes. Students agree to these when they register. In order to avoid public scrutiny for assaults on campus, colleges try to mitigate the problem with tribunals conducted in house. This means the offender and victim are heard and the penalty (if any) is decided by the college panel. The real story here is that universities need to get rid of such tribunals and have the police involved immediately. In Chandler's case there are sexual assault and stalking laws that could have dealt with the matter a lot better. I can guarantee this guy probably went on to assault other women.
I mostly agree with this, since there is ample evidence that universities are more concerned about CYA than protecting victims. That said, I had a friend in college who was assaulted at a party, and the sheriff deputies really were more interested in closing the case by denying the strength of her testimony and (perhaps unintentionally) victim blaming. Note that my friend and I both worked for the university police at that time, so she felt comfortable going to them first and felt betrayed by their response. The incident did end up going to the university tribunal, and because the perpetrator had other claims against him before, he was expelled and had to move back to his home town from his frat house. Not the best resolution, but just wanted to highlight that sometimes universities can do what law enforcement either can’t or won’t to protect the student population.
Yes The Police should be involved immediatly. Whether from someone at church or school the police should be involved. Serious crimes demand serious legal help. A school tribunal will not stop the abuser.
Chandler has it right. In Mormonism most guys see you as an appendage or/and an accessory ( the "trophy wife"). Looks matter more than character often. So sad! ( I did serve a foreign mission, & married After I left the church later in life. I have not regretted it!)
There's a lot I relate to. Talking about interviews reminds me of when I was interviewed for a temple recommend and they read directly from the list just "are you sexually pure?... anything that you need to confess?" And that's as deep as it got. And I said no, cause I'm ace and the thought of doing stuff didn't totally exist for me and he looked confused for a second, like he didn't expect a no and it's always struck me as odd. I'm sure me saying no was as odd to him as the thought of doing anything was for me
It's fascinating listening to this kind of story through this lens. It's interesting just how different everything isn't. The happy loving clean childhoods that still lead to the same problems and issues that everyone else has. Anxiety and guilt are not unique to the religious. Messy relationships are no less common. It's almost as if trauma will always be a permanent part of the human experience. That there will always be those that make the wrong decision and we all suffer the consequences. But life is still good. People are mostly good. And everyone is literally on the same path. How you interpret the best way is up to you.
This episode was super good, for me, for many reasons. I like this Chandler, I don't know the past Chandler, but this Chandler is so confident, assertive, smart, funny, it's hard to imagine she was ever anything else. As an ex-mormon male living in SLC, mormon men (especially in Utah) are super toxic. I was in the single mormon scene from 2014 to 2017, and I would hear men in the cultural hall talk about how if a woman doesn't make 70k+, went to a super good school, and if she doesn't look the part, they will not take her serious. That was quite sad and shocking to hear men talk about, no wonder mormon women here are super picky, because they have bad experiences with mormon men here. Also, the fact that she got called to serve early is weird, because I got called super early to serve too. I had to drop out of Highschool because my stake president felt prompted to tell me to drop out of school and serve a mission, horse radish I tell ya. Great episode, can't wait to hear more.
Hearing Chandler's heartbreak over the solid, non-mormon guy breaks my heart. I didn't know this was a common phenomena in Mormonism and Sam's comment of how the church caused her do "self-betrayal" essentially by leaving a guy she intuitively thought was good for her, (just not mormon.) And I just wanted to hug her when she opened up about her r*pe story... So terrible to hear how these bad things happen to good people who are then blamed for it. My heart really goes out to her.
My sister’s high school boyfriend was/is Mormon. He & my sister had a lot of sex in high school, which resulted in a teenage pregnancy for my sister. The purity culture does not stop the hormones. The hormones will have their say & often in really unhealthy ways if all you are taught is to repress them. This guy went on to do his mission & is still a practicing Mormon. I have no idea if his wife even knows he has a child from when he was 16.
So not surprised to read your story. I got pregnant out of wedlock by a Mormon guy and he paid me a bunch of money to go raise our son and terminate his paternal rights. The latter isn't legal in our case but he has chosen to never even meet our son and go on his merry way in Highland, UT. My son is better off but it still burns me that he gets to maintain his Mormon front (temple marriage with 2 women) and ignore his son.
@@jasminescameraroll - & a really appalling & patriarchal part of all this is that men can be sealed in the temple multiple times w/ different wives, but even if a woman has the same reasons for marrying again such as a spouse dying or divorce, she can’t be sealed again in the temple.
My husband and i were engaged and we made out quite a bit and we had to confess to the bishop. Very embarrassing! It is a bit ridiculous. We have been married for 24 years and we have not been in the church for 14 years and happy with it. We are still good people but with less responsibility.
Mechelle Winslow That’s the thing you don’t need to belong to a religion to tell you right from wrong. I’m sure leaving Mormonism has probably strengthened your marriage more than it would’ve if you stayed in.
It is SO difficult to be a young female in the “church”/cult. Her self-esteem is low because worth is superficial, based upon appearance. Her value depends on an upbeat disposition and demeanor; it must always be positive, outgoing and righteously motivated. Period.
I was a child during the 1960s and my parents could send us on our own to church (catholic ) - I was six and my sister was three and it was a very hot summer day so we had on sleeveless shirts with the matching cotton pedal pushers pants & we’re babies. We got singled out in church because they said my sisters top barely met the waist of the pants but they did because my parents would never send us out to church looking anything but presentable and again we were children and this was a hot summer. We got scolded in front of the whole congregation and needless to say we were crying so we went home and told our parents and my father had a fit and he ran up to the Monsignor & gave him an earful and asked how he thinks a three-year-old and a six-year-old could sexualize anyone and if that’s the case then there’s some sick thinking going on in the monsignors head, it really was a form of shaming the woman for a man’s impure thoughts. From that day forward my father refused to ever step foot in the Catholic Church again, although he still believes in God and had a personal relationship in his heart, we were never forced to go sit in a brick and mortar building. I did not realize how similar that story is true the stories I hear what is the Mormon religion for the job the family religion where it is the woman’s responsibility and job to make sure they’re not wearing some thing that would make men having pure so much. I tried to go back to church when I had my child and had him baptized Roman Catholic but he was then diagnosed with high functioning autism which later was diagnosed as Asperger syndrome but when he was six (2002) he had to get ready to attend classes so he can make his first holy communion the following year but due to his learning disability, I needed extra help for him and spoke with the church and they refused and the reason was that if he cannot understand it on his own then he was not ready to make it and would have to do it a few years later & would need to understand what it is that he’s told to believe in. My son with his condition has a photographic brain so he could’ve definitely memorized everything including the meaning of what he just read but he wouldn’t understand what it meant and I felt if you’re going to belong to church you’re in, you should really understand what it is that we are supposed to believe in. I was so angry because he had a right to make his first holy communion like everybody else but they would not give me the extra assistance he would need so that he understood what it was he had to recite so between that and then remembering what happened to us when my sis & I were little, I never stepped foot in the Catholic Church again nor did I raise my son in any form of structured religion except having a spiritual relationship with Jesus from his heart and to this day my son does have a personal relationship with Jesus but it comes from his heart and not a building or a man (our case it’s a priest), claiming to be the one that Jesus speaks to. Of course we all know what happened years later with the scandal of improper behavior of the Catholic Church priests. Did not realize that there are extremist in every religion, including Roman Catholics. I found your channel by accident and love it. Wishing you and your family a happy and healthy new year.
I grew up RLDS and my grandmother did my pre-baptism classes and at the end I told her I didn’t want to because if it was such a big promise I didn’t feel comfortable making it. I swear I was 20 before she didn’t look somewhat betrayed that I rejected her religion.
I was forced to go to church at 7 years old after my dad married my stepmom. I didn’t want to go I had no clue about anything and never asked about it because of the control my step mother had over me. I wouldn’t have dared. Meanwhile, why she’s abusing me with neglect and cruelty, she’s wearing her little garments and thinking she’s better than the rest. Her whole family is like that. Fast forward- they have 6 kids (I’m my dads only child with my biological mom) and I’m basically banished from living in my own home other than my bedroom. Hardly dared to get any food unless she was gone. So they have 6 kids… they have their family pictures taken- mind you, I’m living in this house- and they took them WITHOUT ME and it still hangs on their wall… followed by two more portraits without me. What did I do? I was a kid. I wasn’t hers. And the best part… they’re all sealed together…. Never once asked me… never from the moment I met that lady was I ever a part of “their family”. And it’s hurt me beyond my entire life. There was something always “wrong” with me, and I was forced to do all the crap I had to do because I had NO voice. It’s followed me to this day and only recently have I come to terms with the fact that I’m not a bad person for not believing in this religion- especially the Book of Mormon. I’ve met many kind people for sure… it’s the religion and the segregation and the judgement I HATE. This girl is truly a brave girl for even having the courage to stand up for herself in her Mormon community. Her “ward”. Bless her heart!
The one girl I knew who was LDS growing up (I was Catholic) left the Mormon church at 18 years old SOLELY based on her interactions with bishops (sometimes panels) regarding sexual experiences and explanations. The questions that were asked of her were totally inappropriate. These men sounded a bit prevented to me. Of course we had to admit things in confession but NOTHING like what this Mormon CHILD was required to talk about.
I was baptized Mormon back in 1969 when I was eight. I lasted ten more years before I finally started to figure out how silly the whole thing was and started doing my own research, which in 1979 wasn't easy, as we didn't have computers of any sort. That process took about seven years, and the reading of dozens of books on Mormonism. I had myself excommunicated as an Elder in 1986 and never looked back.
