I normally don't leave comments, but I just wanted to say that as a young man who is now converting to christianity, I've never clicked on a video faster. Jonathan's videos opened the door for me to come to Christ. And Tammy, more than anyone else, seeing how you and Jordan Peterson conduct yourselves has shown me that healthy relationships are possible, and as someone who came from a very broken home, it's given me something to strive towards being a part of in the future. Thank you both for the inspiration, it's helped me greatly.
Thank you for this insightful conversation. As a sidenote: I am always impressed by Jonathan's seeming joy or enthusiasm (or whatever it is that makes his eyes and face shine) even when talking about what he believes will be apocalyptic times ahead of us. I noticed this many times, and to me it speaks of a deep sort of courage and inner peace that I do not quite understand but certainly admire and long for.
Maybe it’s from his faith in Jesus Christ who said “be not afraid…I have overcome the world…remain in me and I will remain in you.” It is a teaching of the Orthodox: “rejoice…for 😊Christ is risen”
I love the way Tammy brings the human impact into the conversation and Jonathon lays out a wider impact that has resulted in the negative impact on families, communities and the possible long term outcomes. Brilliant joint effort. Thank you to both of you.
3:30 you’re describing the last twenty years of my life so well. Thank God that through your husband, Mr. Pageau, and others, I found Christ and joining the EO. The shifts within me are nothing short of miraculous. Literally saved from the jaws of eternal darkness and separation from God.
Wonderful talk! Thank you Tammy Johnathan for sharing your ideas. I do believe we all can contribute to the much better future , when we have understanding of what is going on, when we have good social networking and when we realize what is at stake. I do hope Jesus is leading us through these difficult times for some reason. God bless you!
Welcome home Tammy! I saw you twice in Melbourne when you came down under. If you see this, pray for my wife as I pray for your husband, both of whom remain outside the Catholic Church at this time. Thank you for everything you have done to support Jordan over the years, as a wife, a mother and moral support. I would have struggled to come back to faith and the Catholic Church without Jordan helping me over the years.
"Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed. Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art. Religion is the revelation to man of his divine and eternal destiny. Religion is a purely personal and spiritual experience and must forever be distinguished from man’s other high forms of thought, such as: 1. Man’s logical attitude toward the things of material reality. 2. Man’s aesthetic appreciation of beauty contrasted with ugliness. 3. Man’s ethical recognition of social obligations and political duty. 4. Even man’s sense of human morality is not, in and of itself, religious." The Urantia Book, Paper 195, Section 5. Thank you, Tammy Peterson and Jonathan Pageau. God bless you both!
As a teenager I'd travel about an hour every Saturday to our 'spot', knowing some friends would be there. We didn't call each other, we simply met up. We were into rock so our 'spot' was outside the then famous record shop 'Shades' in London. We'd have no idea how the day would go and we could end up anywhere in London. Just friends having fun.
The enlightenment is defined by the scientific method and reason, which is in turn a categorisation or identification. This could be understood as Adam naming the animals. If so, can post-modernism be imagined as Eve talking to the snake? In other words a breakdown of the categorisation.
I try to share Tammy's thought that people are surprising. Things may get more authoritarian, but I think the human soul has a finite capacity for glossing over injustice that can be pushed over the limit. The more the balance of power is skewed, the more possible it is for those on top overplay their hand. Opportunities for good can emerge under such conditions that you just never would expect. Hey, at least the trucker protest tells you that people can think "I've had it up to here," and cooperate. Btw, the protest in NZ was one of the most good-faith autonomous coordinated events I've participated in. Of course, we could lose.
I began a distance online relationship which initially meant we were able to connect through conversations, sharing thoughts ideas etc playing music together sharing our spiritual beliefs and experiences. We had become so close but it was only when we eventually met in person, when I could smell him and feel him and kiss him that I knew we were incompatible. He was a lovely man and we both tried our best to build a relationship and life together but 5 years down the track I had to finally walk away. My advice to those considering online dating is meet in person as soon asap before allowing yourself to construct a relationship without negotiating the necessary process of introduction and eventual intimacy.
Changing the Math also separates the family, in that parents do not understand the way answers are arrived at, making it difficult to help their own kids with homework.
Common core math has been severely misunderstood. When i was a kid, they would say "you're not gonna have a calculator everywhere you go" so they tried to turn us into little calculators. Now that everyone has a smart phone, the point is to get kids to think about numbers in an abstract way. I didn't like it at first, but I learned how to do it to help the kids with homework, and it's quite intuitive for doing math in your head. IMO too many old people just don't like when something changes
Marshall McLuhan pointed out in the 50s that electronic media turns everybody in to signals, disembodied presences in others rooms. This creates for humans an energetic self able to be in more than one place at a time, thus superheroes and superpowers. He said this would confuse us over our identity creating glabal village, parochial groups alienated from others. This situation can be read quite differently.
In some ways, Tammy, your description of post modernism is what I experienced growing up in Madison, Wisconsin, university town. While, my father was a pension planner, and "marxist, communist" professors were all so happy to do investments for their retirement. My dad had a phrase, I try to remember: obnoxious, arrogant, hypocritical "communists"
Face to face human interaction also involves people serving each other. Giving refreshments, asking if they need the bathroom, respecting their time etc. When I was younger I learned alot about people through working as a survey interviewer in people's houses knocking on doors. Alot of these interviews included questions on voting habits, here I noticed something so revealing in how i was treated by people who voted a certain way that on that alone, I changed which party i voted for in elections.
@@mariecait I'm in the UK. Those with traditional and conservative opinions treated me much better in the sense that they respected my time. Asked if i needed a glass of water and if it was a lone woman in the house, she asked if I needed to use the bathroom. Not everytime of course but it was a pattern I couldn't help but notice. The more liberal or left voters were more friendly but would keep me all day if they could moaning and complaining. Almost like I were some sort of sounding board, not respecting my time. Anyway I did this job a good few years ago now.
@20:51 I wonder if the problem most people encounter is buying into the lie that you can self-identify, instead of receiving their identity from God and asking for him to help them embody that identity in service to his Kingdom.
Please please please do a talk on Derrida, Jonathan. This post Heidegger stuff is too important to pretend it isn't blowing up religions humanities AND sciences which rely on metaphysics. Go for it. As things stand we fall (Genesis) between analytic philosophy and the metaphysics of modernism.
I'd be interested to hear, how you came to the two visions of enlightenment, that are taken as soundbites right at the start. They're literally the competing ideologies at the bottom of every assassin's creed video game. This series posits two competing conspiracies ever present throughout the ages. Those may in reality not be actual groups but egregores or archetypal ideals. But I do find it striking that this dichotomy comes up here and in that video game series.
I am unconvinced that enlightenment rationalism is solely responsible for all categories in our world. Distinctions were made in many spheres long before the enlightenment.
It's more about the extremes, the atomic categorisations at every level. Categories in general are fine, but neatly packaging every single thing into a fitting category is not how nature works. We have spectrums and scales and fuzziness and chaos everywhere, it's just part of reality.
Metamodernism comes after PMism, taking the PM brakes off of the cultural dialectic and drawing our attention to our clear inability to handle the many crises we're facing. Covid revealed our incompetence; if we manage AI, war, and other crises as well as we did covid, we probably just won't make it. But covid also drew the whole world's attention to the same hyperobject. That created a baby version of a new kind of collective mutual awareness of each other. So far, this new layer of "consciousness" has mostly just wailed and screamed, but if we can help it grow up a bit, maybe we can find a new and better hyperobject that can call our attention and help us coordinate, like birds that coordinate by syncing up to the same magnetic pole. The whole metamodern cultural conversation has been completely inaccessible for more than 10 years now. But in the speech below, I've tried to make it as accessible and appealing as possible, and to fire it up with the hope it helps me feel: that we might acknowledge our need to level up in coordination as a species, and do it in time. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Y5AW9Gh6zs8.html
Isn't it about 70% of language is non-verbal? So we're definitely not connecting as deeply as we should for them to really be as meaningful as they're intended to be.
Just like no one could predict that something like birth control would lead to more abortions, I submit that ubiquitous privacy breaching technology will actually lead to much more freedom. I know that sounds crazy, but I truly believe that will be the eventual outcome. The reason the state always tries to grip harder is because it feels like it doesnt have the control it needs to protect itself and carry out its mission. When that fear is gone what will happen?
The events that led to the Holocaust began on October 31st, 1517. Once the protestant reformation started, creating tremendous fragmentation throughout Europe, things began falling apart in a multitude of ways. However, the one place where the reformation was very successful without the violence and decay seen in Europe, was in a brand new country called "The United States of America." In that country, the Jews found freedom and a way of life that greatly exceeded anything they could do in Europe.
does Mr. Pageau even understand what Hicks et al are explaining when they categorise the counterenlightenment? 'Enlightenment leaves gaps cos it doesnt encompass human experience thus springs the romantics', yes that is exactly what Hicks has said, that the counterenlightment arises in response and reaction to the enlightenment and its gaps... five minutes in and Mr. Pageau is disagreeing to disagree and just reformulating what others have said
Sometimes Tammy says something that sounds exactly like Jordan, haha - "They have to get rid of phones in schools. Well, they might have to get rid of schools"
While Common core did it wrong, applying methods for the exception to the rule; I understand the weird math grids from from this perspective: I was incapable of doing long division in my head until I started envisioning the numbers as physical numerals carved out of stone, primarily because I could not remember the numbers unless I introduced them into the realm of my imagination in this fashion (highly visual thinker). I think that common core was an attempt at creating a variety of "ways of thinking", and it failed because "more choice" is actually worse than "limited choice" when you are trying to teach basic concepts. Weird luciferian thinking.
Something about logic, reason and rationality has the properties of dividing things up to provide certainty, but all rationality reason and logic might be post hoc. That changes things siginificantly. Taxonymies are the result of wanting certainty, so you carve things up and draw boundaries without regard for relationship. I'm not sure post modernism has any good in it. While Jonathans point is excellent, they cannot draw any boundaries on anything. The solution is the drop the materialism, or rather, make material secondary again (make final cause great again) which allows you to seperate the material boundaries from the ethereal relationships and recognize that together that creates a unity. This avoids the so called 'neo Platonic' (so such thing at all, it's completely made up) one and many problem (real issue but due to dualism). I don't think you can weaponize post modernism, it destroys order all by itself and cannot build anything. The core problem there is that the post modernism is an easy concept, we'll solve the problem of 'conflict' by removing boundaries, so any conflict is a 'self attack' therefore, you shouldn't do it. Now, for any conflict, the solution is to recognize you are part of the 'whole' and just need to stop resisting being part of everything. The flip is right there. Of course, something has to be in charge, it's just never you and always the 'wicked smart person' that told you all this. Girard has a better way of talking about this, we took down the hierarchy (obsticle at the top) but now we have lots of smaller obsticles to deal with. This is the 'curse' of democracy. Stacking identities sounds a lot like a solution to that domicide John Vervaeke talks about. I don't think the enlightment leads to individualism unless religion also goes away. The state protecting is more about the government taking over the roles that the church keeps giving up. We have the relationship of performer to public because we are all on broadcast media, which is a flat (but also spread out and copied) version of ourselves. This is technically correct - but really not great. Missing the touch, smell, etc. is just the start, this is the flat online world, spread out, but flat, so you lose the quality of participation (participatory knowledge) entirely. This disenchants the world for us, but also we lose the ability to participate correctly because all of the information that isn't available online, the poetic way of informing the world, is now unpracticed. The issue with Covid is calling out evil and trauma and being lied to so that you can integrate it and get past it. People follow patterns, indeed, so COVID was all about establishing a new pattern for behavior because people get new participation from exemplifying patterns, hence all the dances and exemplification in videos. Yes, the ideal is the important part, because that is what you look up to, as an exemplar, to mimic in participation. The fact that we fail is not that important. Nor is the idea that the world isn't perfect and a margin exists.
Both the enlightenment and post modernism resulted dislike and aggression toward others. The human heart bends toward selfishness regardless of the philosophy in vogue. Its Cain over and over again. Evil is crouching at your door...
Bruno Latour wrote a book called 'We Have Never Been Modern', 1991. So there can't be postmodern then. Do you believe in Latour's epistemological metaphysics? Anything is real (ontological claim) that anyone claims as a source of motivation for action. It is no good talking about postmodernism in the abstract, address specific thinkers, I use the word loosely, and their actual ideas and arguments that they lay out in their works. Hegel would, if he were alive today, and in so doing he'd expose the presumptions and sloppy reasoning.
No! Not "globalist communism", rather it's globalist fascism. The idea that post-modernism has been "weaponized" is also wrong, as postmodernism was a very aggressive and very evil movement from Day One. You can't weaponize what was already intended to be a weapon. One thing that Jonathan doesn't quite understand is that postmodernism is NOT to found in the texts of postmodernist philosophers, but in the movements and the actions of postmodern politics.
You are making claims without any actual arguments. What your futher analysis would be? Claiming that postmodern philosophers didn't formulate the ideas that were actualized later is wrong. Blaming only politicians for actualizing that ideas is wrong also.
It would be splitting hairs at this stage of the game to make distinctions between fascism and communism. Their overall characteristic is all pervasive totalitarian control.
I doubt anybody understands Derrida's recherch or comically abstruse writings. Countless students wasted innumerable hours trying to decipher his nonsense.
Governmental structure are reliant on a fatherless home. Religious structure are reliant on a lessfather home. What is this buzz all about? Those who are shocked or those or are (in)sects should start thinking about pestasides.
52:30 That’s not correct: 1492, first Spanish Grammar published, by Antonio de Nebrija, from Salamanca University. In fact, The Nahuatl Grammar, written by Spanish scholars, also precedes the english and french grammars. But you anglos always obviate that like it never happened. And here you are now, falling to pieces.
32:45 I disagree after spending time because of my occupation long hours on the internet I have come to the realization that 2 dimensional and 3 dimensional interactions aren't as different as it may seem besides the dimensional variety. Sensory experiences aside it's all the same acted out differently, but the effect/results are similar. If someone doesn't know you they ignore you and act coldly towards you. Getting to know people is not an easy process and only once that is achieved does the human recognition change beyond considering each other 'background noise' or potential enemy. Looking at the anonymity of the internet of randoms who don't seem like real people to you unless you have a parasocial obsession with them is equal in the real world viewing other humans as obstacles or natural foliage in a mountain scene unless somekind of social value is spotted. You might say "what about manners and social etiquette"? Well thats no different than treating others interested in the same topic as you online with a level of respect/comradery. There's no depth in those interactions none of those people 2D or 3D care about your existence. Superficiality is the norm everywhere all we are expected to do is do the social etiquette dance to avoid actually knowing someone as a fellow human being. We are a dancing culture, nothing substantial only loose fun. Then people wonder why they feel so alone after the ball.
It’s a pretty strange thing to suggest that there is something wrong with favoring friends. Almost anti-human. Just my view, I guess. Besides, nepotism only applies to family.
The nuclear family is a mistake. The nuclear family is what enables abuse. Humans were never meant to live in isolated families with just mom and dad. If you are going to use child abuse as a reason for the state to become more powerful, then you have to address the issue of what enables abuse, and going to a system that enables abuse even more is counterproductive. People are meant to live in communities where a child can have multiple trusted adults they can turn to besides their parents, and there would be checks and balances on how the parents do their parenting from the rest of the adults in the community.
I would add, that in community the checks and balances come from people who actually care for both the parents and the child. Many would argue that teachers, police officers, nurses fill a similar role in protecting children from abuse. The problem is that they pull kids out and put them in a corrupt institution with complete strangers and cut them off from people they know and love. It makes it hard for them to trust anyone at all.
@@PeterM8987 You are born into whatever family circumstances you have as a child, no child chooses the environment in which they grow up. So in fact in many cases we “forced” to grow up in Nuclear Families for the most part, at least that has been what we have “valued” or propped up as the ideal which should be strived for. This is especially true of western countries, at least in America & Canada possibly Britain and Australia as well. I believe the comment was pointing out that making the “Nuclear Family” the ideal model we are making a mistake. Obviously each of us can try to model our personal lives differently, we don’t have to accept the standard when we have our own families, its just not considered a value to live in a multi generational family setting where Grandparents aren’t living in retirement communities or confined to nursing homes and our society as a whole suffers as a result.
