Brutal as usual but with the added ferocity of potentially the greatest cyclist of all time. I have never witnessed such domination in any Grand Tour. Highlight was Cav breaking the record and my favourite stage winner was Victor Campenaerts, a much deserved win for a great pro, especially his celebration.
@@oscardanson7127 It's not a gift in that case. If that's a gift then the team mater doing all of that work throughout the race is also a gift? Isn't that what quid pro quo means?
@@erichweggelaar1320 huh?....they've literally been the most cohesive unit around, set a standard for teamwork and has had 3 to 4 different riders in team winning stages at tdf and other huge races despite having mega leaders. So all the years of being true to their 'samwinnen' moto is nothing coz you decide to take a sample size of 1 week at the 23' vuelta as basically the definition of their teamwork....and btw, by your own statement they did learn from that mistake on the spot since they started supporting sepp to the line and he won it anyway....although funnily enough he himself wasn't sure he wanted to win or support ving and rog regardless.
Pagacar did the right thing by: (1) doing his job, (2) showing respect to his competition, the fans, the race, and the jersey by doing his best (3) honouring his team mates who put his success before their own (4) winning the prize money that's then shared out amongst his team mates who are not paid as well as him. (5) His victories boost team morale during the most gruelling, spectated sporting event (6) By rewarding his sponsors with the exposure that they are paying him for.
100% all correct. True gifting is reserved only to your own teammates who are in a position to win for the team without compromising your own GC. If you "let" any of the competition win, it's only because you don't have the legs or you're doing it strategically with other wins in mind later on, so that's not gifting, that's tactics and strategy.
Thanks for the great take on Pog winning stages. Anyone that suggests any professional in any sport should do anything but their best hasn't a leg to stand on. If other people think they deserve to win, then they can prove it. If you don't want the other team to score late in a game, play better defense, if you want to win a stage, ride your bike faster.
Right! Every opinion I've heard about him letting others win is from "couch critics" or plain amateurs. When pros are asked if he should, they all agree if they had his legs they'd win just as much.
9/10 for the tour. One of my highlights was actually when Alex Zingle did a bunny-hop over Mads Pedersen, which in my eyes didn't get enough atttention because of the win of Marc Cavendish.
There is nothing disrespectful in gifting a win. It should , however, NEVER be expected or requested. But refusing to take turns, after Jonas opened the gap to Remco, seemed a bit petty. If Tadej somehow thinks, that what happened at stage 9, compares to the last 4.4k of a mountain stage, he’s totally of. In general it’s frowned upon, if you sprint for the win, if you didn’t take turns in the break. “Gifting” can be disrespectful, but not to The Tour. Pantani felt he won fair and square, so when Lance claimed he had gifted the win, it was an insult.
8.5/10 it was a super entertaining 3 weeks of racing. Minus half a point for Roglic dropping out, I was looking forward to him fighting with Remco for the #3 spot. Minus 1 full point for Jonas not being at his absolute peak best. The only thing that would have made it a perfect 10 is if Jonas was closer to Pogi and the race came down to the final 3 days. But really, it was honestly the best TdF I have seen in the past two decades of watching. May the sharing of peanut M&M's be a featured event in every tour from now on.
@@StangspringDKwhy should Pocagar help Vingegaard over Rimco? His only job was to make sure Vingegaard didnt ride away, which is exactly what he was doing.
@@pepsino12000It’s true, that Pogi had no incentive to aid Jonas in the situation. However, he becomes even more guilty of what Jonas was criticized for, on stage 9. Despite that the situations are TOTALLY incomparable. Taking turns would make a perfect alibi to take the win. By failing to take turns, he comes of a bit petty, IMHO. I guess, some feel a win is a win. Not one word on greed, but how you win matters (to some, appearently).
@@StangspringDK i still dont understand the argument that Pogacar needs to spend extra, unnecessary energy at stage 20 after a grueling tour to help his rival so he can win the “right way”. I think he rather had a group finish at the top since the last stage was TT. But a win is a win.
10/10 TDF. Went in pretty neutral on Vingegaard, now I have massive respect for him. His performance was all heart. How we could have gotten to the point of a TDF winner winning "too many" stages is beyond me. Ludacris opinions. 1 bad day, or flat, or crash, and everything could have changed. Could he have let the TT go, sure, but why would he? He is paid to win. He did that. Honestly, the best part of the tour was the combatives. The grit and determination of the break aways this year was the 10/10 rating for me.
after suffering two tough defeats in the last two years, this year he came back stronger than ever. this guy has great mental strength as well as his legs. he is not afraid of challenges and always puts in an uncommon determination. how can you not love him? GOOO Tadej!!! Most
So many great stories from this years Tour de France…. A historic Giro/Tour double, first African green jersey winner, a historic 35 wins, retirements, a comeback, first Ecuadorian jersey winner… it’s great!
The team was riding almost every day, they out the effort in so they deserve to go for the win. Pogacar winning all these races us an inspiration for young riders and should be applied for giving his all
I agree with you on the 'gifting' thought and Tadej's comment that 'winning is what he's paid to do' - in fact Jonas even mentioned that he probably wouldn't 'gift' if he was in the same situation.
A far better Tour than I thought it would be. Great move by the organisers to throw in some big climbs early on, like the Galibier, to force the GC battle almost from the outset (like a team scoring early in a match). Lots of great stuff to keep it exciting other than the ultimately predictable GC race: first black African stage winner and Green jersey, the late battle for the mountains by Carapaz, Campanaert's emotional stage, the mad gravel stage, a mountains photo finish, stunning scenery as always, and of course, Cav's record-breaking stage win
Totally agree on no gifting. Pushing the limits raises the competitiveness for all riders. Watched every minute of the race and thoroughly enjoyed. So many stories!!!!
i think its no question at all if pogi is greedy or arrogant. he does what he's employed to do at the team. he just out-performs everyone. jumbo visma from last year won all three grand tours and nobody was talking about weather if they do too much or not. that's just the game. there always has to be a winner. it would be the same if saying cav won too many stages at tdf, didnt he get enough? i think the races are highly interesting.
What I remember is people criticizing Cavendish on a near constant basis and only in retrospect when he was suffering with some kind of chronic ailment and unable to get a contract did people show any sympathy for him at all. And then his big comeback was "special" just as Lance's return from cancer was regarded as such. I guess people are naturally envious and prefer to watch someone suffer. Only after enough perceived suffering do they have "social permission" to take the glory.
He had the first Giro/Tour double on the line, and with knowledge that he has blown on the last 2 tours, why wouldn't he do everything he could to ensure he completed the task?
I would understand discussion about gifting a win to a teammate. Riders today have a huge responsibility toward their teammates, support staff, team directors and sponsors. Imagine how a teammate that worked whole stage or a mechanic who had to work till midnight to prepare the bikes or a team director who needs to organize everything would feel when their rider would gift a win to a rider from other team. Cycling is very much a team sport, so all riders should respect their members of the team.
Pogi is on par to become one of the greatest cyclists of all time. Watching him dominate in the mountains, in the long flats and the time trials has this non-pro in awe. I pray he stays healthy so I can watch him climb that ladder of the greats.
LOVED this year's race - love Tadej and the way he races in the same way I loved watching Lance and the way he raced, but even more, it's like getting a chance to watch Merckx, who I missed out on watching. I hope he goes on to break all the records and keeps his obvious love of the sport, and pray to the Cycling Gods that it all doesn't end up like Armstrong.
Re : Pogacar. He said a few years ago- ' You can never have too much time on GC.' One crash , one ill-timed flat ,one bad day and it's all over. As for gifts , you would lose your job in any other sport. It's called ' Throwing the match.'. AS for rating the 24 Tour - 10/10 .
8/10 overall... 10/10 final week thanks to Pogi and Richie🔥🔥🔥.....Whoever is hating on Pogi's dominance should stop it and start encouraging others to work on their vulnerabilities and weaknesses....Pogi worked hard to improve his third week, Visma need to change tactics and find someone who can consistently attack like Pogi or train Vini to be less defensive and reliance on teammates and more aggressive
Have really enjoyed the Tour this year and living near the Tourmalet I was lucky enough to see a stage. Pogacar was amazing this year, and all this talk of being greedy is total nonsense …he was doing his job and did it brilliantly. Jonas had an amazing tour and brought our the best in Pogacar….their duel made it exciting….Chapeau.
Been a brilliant Tour. We were fortunate to visit from Australia and the spectacle is amazing! Great summary by you Dan! No Pogi is not greedy! Sport is meaningless if gifted and who knows when he can repeat this current form! Sounds like sour grapes!
I was going for Pogi or Roglic at the start. Sad to see Roglic not make it. But Jonas was amazing given the level he was at despite his crash and injuries. Remco too for similar reasons. Hope that everyone arrives 100% next year.
@@joeterzio7175 Honestly, I dont really care. Everyone at the top in every sport is roided the the eyeballs. I would be even more suspicious of Jonas. From hospital bed to pushing his best watts ever and not cracking once.
9/10 terrific parcours plan. Pog + other wonderful stage winnners + back stories with new gen giving us so much to look forward too. 10 with Roglic upright and without covid in peloton !
This is the first tour I have really immersed myself in and I absolutely loved it. I don't think I'll ever forget UAE's team performance in the Pyrenees - exhilarating to watch. Carapaz was wonderful, Jorgensen was great, Victor Campanaerts was a joy, Mark Cavendish a hero, Girmay a revelation and Remco is threatening. Pogacar was stunning: a pure racer. Vingegaard was all heart. The last few stages battling for second place, and watching Visma Leasabike try everything to break Pogacar and to see him use it all to his advantage - wow. This is truly what sport is all about.
@@ShimmyD-u7g We had 10 different winners for the first 11 stages; that was pretty impressive right there. And then some well-deserved breakaway wins on 17 and 18. Viewers got a bit of everything throughout the tour.
Gifting stages undermines the value of winning one. This makes me think that some riders that have won in the past weren't really worth of the accolade.
This was the best tour i've seen since last years tour. i give it a 10 out of 10. I do wish pogi would let breaks go or let the race come to him but on the other hand if his goal is to be the goat, which I think is possible for him to reach, then he needs to win as much as possible. People don't look back and criticize the best riders for giving away stages---they only know how many stages a rider won.
Dan, thank you for mentioning Lorena Wiebes wins, I have noted her amazing win rate, something even Cavendish would call a best year. Her sprints are brutal and dominating when she hits the line with room and energy to spare; her fitness this year seems to be at a career best. Can't wait to see what she does in future years.
It‘s again and again shocking how gullable the typical npc Poggi fanboys are. And at the same time abolishing Armstrong, Landis, Riis, Dr Ferrari etc. Just like little kids, which don‘t want to except that Santa Clause isn‘t real aka „but there is no proof that Poggi is on the hot sauce, so until there is no positive test, he has to clean hasn‘t he mom? 🤡😂 Imo this kid and his old buddy Mauro are getting protected to make cycling mainstream. It‘s just Like those US sports where there is always this super super Star, like LeBron, Jordan etc.
@@ion2763 He's shattering the records of well-known dopers which makes it even more baffling - if you're naive enough. I enjoy his style and talent as much as the next guy, but I take it for what it is.
9/10 - one or two stages for the classics riders would've been great. as for Pogi winning, the last 5 years have proven that you need to take every chance you got because there are no guarantees for next year.
I did think Tadej was a messy rider at the start of the Giro, particularly when in Pink he led the peloton in a last-moment catch of a rider near the finish. But in later stages of the Giro and throughout the Tour, he and his team played it mean and clean and what's a winner to do but win when you see a chance and take it. And Jonas was brave just to be there, let alone compete at the highest level, and same goes for other recently injured riders, not easy to get up off the mat and the hospital bed and get back to racing against all the other chaps with a serious need for speed. 😀
He's there to win... so that's what he's doing. Personally, one of the best tours I've watched since Lemond, Fignon (Rest his Soul) .. watched every stage bar one... all the talk about doping, gifting, motor doping etc... is what it is, I have only one thing to say, that was an amazing Tour. 👌 Winners Win and Hard Work Pays 🏆 Bini Girmay was my highlight.
The whole 'gifting' of victories reached a peak as a result of Indurain's dominance in the early 1990's . He never won a stage other than a time trial in all the Tour De France he won, and only two non-tt stages - in the TdF's he didn't. So 'gifting' stage victories to anyone - on any team - that dragged all 80kg of him up climbs was sensible. Obviously Armstrong and Contador who would have been fans were influenced, especially Armstrong who was another TT specialist that could climb. Though he got into a media storm for 'gifting' a victory to Pantani once.... However when Sky/Froome took the reins gifting was more or less consigned to history, other than to team mates or Stage vs GC deals.
Simply FAB ! And same for GCN weekly recaps during leTour...we now know that there will be no more consideration given by riders, as JV did for TP in stage 18 of 2022 TdF...LOL...
I think you’re right about neither Tadej nor Jonas would be as good as they are without each other. Competing against those better than you makes you better
There is no such thing as greed when people are relying on you. When you’re the best, you’re the best. Do people want him to get a participation award😂😂😂😂. Agree with everything you said, very interesting. 🎉❤
@gmccmemberk summum became some. 'With a' became 'we're the'. Some of the subtitles make a perfectly grammatically correct sentence incorrect. I don't know how someone can be a native speaker yet understand less English than me.
Dan, in my opinion, you have a great voice for commentating, I think you should take Phil Liggett’s place to announce the TDF!! Thanks for all your efforts in sharing biking news.
Dan, your critics of Inios team is well said. Couldn't agree more. I was expecting more from the them as they were my favorite team. I also have a lot of respect for JV team (now JLAB!). I think they need WVA back in shape before they could be considered a treat to UAE anymore.
Matteo seems like he could be a strong GC leader on another team. Fully agree on gifting - I would hate to win a gifted stage, knowing it wasn't earned even if losing was a disappointment.
The 1989 Tour will always be the platinum standard for all the rest of the tours to be compared with. Thank you very much Greg, Laurent and Pedro for giving us cycling fans a Tour to remember.🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤😊😊😊
Pogajar on gear. Look at the times. Bit like saying Arnold Schwarzenegger was a natural if you know what that means. Having.said that it's wonderful to watch.
Pogi should win every stage he can and making a deal in exchange for a stage is a tactical decision and totally within his rights as a competitor. The whiners, TJ in particular, are ignoring the fact that Pogi was only three minutes a change ahead on stage 19. Not enough to be comfortable and on stage 20 he just followed wheels.
It's great time for cycling in my opinion. Really enjoying and like all cyclists and their different characters in same peloton. Tadej, Wout, Jonas, Jasper, Primoz, Bini, Remco and much more. Nobody is same or copy of any other.
I think pogacar just wants to have fun and to win as much as he can. And to also think both about legacy and physiological battles with Jonas. He wants to be the best rider so if he feels good and wants to win stages, let him do so. Also not to mention how Jumbo Visma(now visma LAB) “bullied him” in 2022 with roglic and in 2023 with all the team tactics. He just wants to get back at Jonas for what they did to him last few years.
Best moment: Tadej tearing down the mountain into Nice at breakneck speed. A thing of beauty. And never any need to apologize for being the best. Would Ali? Or Messi? Or Lebron James? No.
the idea of pogi trying to win too much blows my mind- like this is professional sport! him, the team, their friends and family work all year, miss seeing each other, spend weeks at altitude camps and recon etc etc, I think it would be a kick in the teeth to everyone if he was like 'nah, I'm good, I know I made you recon that TT route until you despise it Urska but I don't think I should try and win today so turns out we wasted all those hours' we might not see the behind the scenes, but at each stage someone will have worked so hard ahead of the race to give him the best chance
Ya that what it take to be professional athlete the sacifice but you wouldnt think him doing what it take to best by doping wouldnt be something he does as well just think about it not here to argue
@@ion2763You are here to argue with that poster above, otherwise you would not have brought up “doping”. The poster you replied to said NOTHING of doping. You pulled that b.s. out of your own tinfoil hat.
Cav's doing at least one TdF ASO city centre crit in Japan in November - He's in the Legends team with Froome and Sagan. He'll probably do others. Club events and so on. I doubt he'll compete in any more stage races for Astana though.
Astana's done, they will get relegated for lack of UCI points to remain at world tour level. However, Vino doesn't care, as he was vindicated by winning the huge gamble that Cav could make history.
@@oldtwinsna8347 I wouldn't write Vino off. They have a year before relegation at the end of 2025 + have done a deal with XDS Carbon tech for a 2025 season reboot and massive budget increase, in line with Jumbo and Lampre's - also If history is any judge Israel and Alpecin both thrived not having to go to ALL the world tour races and being selective. Seriously if Vino was Russian I wouldn't bet against him replacing Putin. He just won the Ironman world champs in 50-54 age range ...... Cav on the other hand is finished with them. So expect a whole load of new signings for 2025.
Great tour. Most interesting podium ever with the four jerseys. Though not a Cav fan, big resoect. Pogacar should win whenever he has the opportunity. That's what athletes do. A gift to a teammate or in the circumstance you described is acceptable, but otherwise, it makes no sense. Although it's is perfectly acceptable for a viewer to feel badly that some young rider has a stage taken by an established GC guy, it is not fair to call such a will to win greedy. 9 out of 10
Glad to not see the comments filled with people saying "Vingegaard would have dominated Pogi if he hadn't crashed," which I've seen a lot on social media. Would it have been closer? Yes. Would Vingegaard have won? Maybe, but probably not. The Pogacar of this year is at a level we've never seen before.
People seem to forget that Pogacar raced the Tour with a Giro win in his legs and the memory of last year's "bonk" when he lost about 6 minutes in a single mountain stage in the last week. Pogacar would not feel certain of the GC win until the last mountain stage was taken with at least a 2 minute cushion. To do otherwise would be arrogant and stupid.
Hey, I really like the GCN racing news show. Any chance that this can be converted to a podcast? I think there are less visuals in comparison to the GCN show and would work well as a podcast
totally agree regarding vingegaard, i am surprised that he was able to heal completely let alone getting a podium finish at the tdf, this tells me that vinni might well have won it again, so if everything goes to plan next year then we are in for one hell of race at next year's tour de france, I don't mean to take away anything from carapaz but i don't think i would of named him as most aggressive rider
After so many decades of GC riders taking no risks, marking their rivals and only attacking in the last 400m, Pog is fantastic! The fact that he risks blowing the doors off to take time OR stages is fantastic entertainment. Despite his massive lead this tour, there was always that chance that he’d push too hard, crack, and lose 5 minutes. Just like he has in the past. I can’t praise him enough for taking these risks. I’m sure his team would prefer an old school Team Sky approach, he just wants to race. People moan about it being boring? They are just wrong. Would any other rider/team take risks on the final time trial descent when the yellow jersey was theirs to lose? That was fantastic entertainment.
9/10, spetacular tour!! Pagacar must win everything he can!!! Was Mark Cavendish greedy when he won 6 stages? should a sprinter "give" the stage for another sprinter because he won more than 4 stages? Of course not!!! Is disrespectul to another cyclist, to the public and to the sponsors!!! Chapeu Pogacar, we saw history this year!!!
Probably you fall asleep during giro 2023 and miss the tour because even as a tadej fan last year was superior by far. Stage 1-2-5-6-9 of the First week where pogi and Jonas Attack 5 times in First week then 2 week other 3 stages. Only "problem" was the lack of thrill for last week but still beautiful stages and the same for this year in the 3 week we already know Who was gonna win
No question that Pogacar is an exceptional athlete but lets get a bit of realism into the situation. It's not clear to me how it is possible to produce a prodigious physical performance one day and then totally recover overnight to the extent to which that feat can be repeated the very next day and then again the day after that. The fact that this occurred at the very end of an allegedly gruelling 3 week tour makes it all the more hard to credit. I don't think that there is anything illegal going on but to believe that his virtually superhuman powers of recovery are all down to his innate ability rather than the result of some kind of medical intervention is absurd. To repeat I don't think anything illegal is going on but neither do I believe that this situation is as straightforward as many people want to believe and perhaps we need to redefine what we mean by doping. In my opinion what we are seeing is the result of the ever more sophisticated application of sport science methods to counter the damaging effects of hard physical exertion and whilst producing exciting racing it is turning riders into little more than lab rats.
He like the dude from rocky 3 the russian guys yeah he got talent and charisma which is why the aso uci all these cycling body behind him but we all know the uae staff memeber are all guys from the past era doping era you dont thjnk with new technolgy the process would re happen or rehash it happening
Great Tour, i enjoyed every stage. As far as gifting goes, total rubbish. A gifted win is lesser value than a hard fought second place. Racing for 3 weeks, and losing by 5 minutes is small difference, even if it looks like a big margin because everybody is just so good. Chapeau to all riders!
I agree with you Dan, of course Pogačar shouldn't gift wins to riders from other teams, otherwise it wouldn't be a race and they might as not bother racing it. And as you say, he's paid a lot of money to win races - that's his job!
