The reason is that customers are better informed and see no reason to pay high end prices for a movement that is identical to that in a far cheaper watch. So now that watchmakers are losing business because a cheaper watch is just as good they are looking to differentiate themselves in order to justify the exorbitant mark up.
He’s a legend and he hits the nail on the head. The abundance of information available makes the average watch collector much more knowledgeable than 30 years ago. Smarter collectors want exclusively and a deeper connection to their timepieces. It’s art, it’s about having an emotional connection. In house movements are simply more romantic, it’s not about “does it keep time as well as a generic watch.” As more people are educated, the demand for in house rises and we have the golden years of innovation happening right now.
An ETA-based Tag Heuer is realistically worth $1000 to $1200 full retail brand new. Everybody knows it. Tag Heuer has a real problem and this JCB guy is long gone now.
I like Jean-Claude Biver he comes across a an honest man a no nonsense guy who ,l feel has he best days ahead of him in watches and there designs a fine wine indeed
Isn't in house movements increasing the overall price also? Not everybody wants to spend over 2000 dollars on a watch, hehe using mass produced movements is good unless in-house movements are as affordable as ETAs etc
20 years ago a no date Rolex Submariner cost $4k USD. $1.5k 30 years ago and 50 years ago they cost a few hundred dollars..even after adjusting for inflation the rise in price of Swiss watches has been astronomical. When you start expecting consumers to pay eye watering price hikes, guess what - they may ask for more in return.
Todays consumer is more informed. Why pay for in house? The same reason we would pay a premium for a hand crafted piece of furniture or clothing or any luxury good. The real question should be: Why should I pay $10k for a watch with the same movement as a $500 watch? Barring precious metals, unless the dial was handcrafted (like an anOrdain) there’s no point other than the “prestige” of a brand name that has been marketed down our throats.
Well, the in-house Tudor Black Bay and the Seamaster 8800, are both in-house, but both are infinitely better movements than their ETA, or dare I say Rolex 3135 movements. Both have more accuracy and both are anti-magnetic., and both have longer power reserves 70 and 55 hours than the stock movements and longer service intervals as well!
Some ETA movements are actually antimagnetic because of the silicon hairspring. It's nothing revolutionary. It's all marketing. Still doesn't justify the price they charge just for being in house...
Not sure, the new powermatic 80s are as good or better - built on proven and tested ETA designs, 80 hours power. reserve, super accurate (within COSC), and many have silicon components rendering them anti-magnetic. I would any day trust a tried and tested workhorse from ETA/Sellita than a new "in-house" movement.
Maybe I misunderstood, but didn't JCB claim that the switch to in-house movement was important for the industry in the long term, in his HODINKEE interview? Seems to be contradicting that here
We should all understand something : The movement is the Hurt and Soul of the watch . ... in our days we dont buy an automatic watch necessarily to find out what the time is .. We buy that whatch as a pice of art , a pice of craftmaship , a pice of culture , we buy history , we buy heritage , we buy an avenue to express ourselves... I think would be SUPER normal that every brand to have their own IN House Movement !!! ....30 -40 years ago people were less informend ...Of course, Jean-Claude Biver would have agreed to do business with movements from other companies, he is a businessman ... but the client today is no longer a SUCKER like 30-40 years ago ... We got information , we got internet ...
Because automatic watches are not used to tell acurate time anymore. Ur timex or phone could do that. People didn’t care about in-house back in the days because automatic watch was actually used for time keeping and it was an important tool, because it was the only means to tell time portably. automatic movment watch are a luxury right now, so people wanted in house movement makes sense as a luxury purchase.
Seagull makes an in house movement. Sinn does not, they use ETA. Is Seagull a better brand and have better timepieces because it has an in house movement? The answer is clear.
Strangely, I always thought, that JC in JC Biver, stood for Jesus Christ (the Saviour of Heuer). I used to own Heuer (Leonidas) Monaco (3 dial manual wind) and Heuer (Leonidas) Carrera 1158 (the Brick) with 18ct gold bracelet. Both purchased from Schwartz Co. in South Africa in 1970+. I have 25 watches in my daily wear watch collection now. Rolex, Girrard Peregaux, IWC, JLC etc. but not one single Heuer. The key reason that stops me from buying new Heuer Autoavia or Monaco, is the TAG Heuer stamp on the "rotor of the watcb", not just the TAG Heuer on dial. I will always associate the TAG prefix with "dark period of Heuer watchmaking" ... e.g. basic ETA / Seiko movements, poorly designed bracelets and cases and indeed, the quartz movements in number of TAG Heuer models. If J.C. Biver wants indeed save the Heuer from extinction .... using in-house / El-Primero movements and dropping the pre-fix TAG in any form and guise, would be the good start. Otherwise Heuer can't compete against Longines, let alone Omega, or Breitling, that Mr Biver is trying to position Heuer against.
he is literally saying there is no difference at all (maybe because he's speaking on behalf of Tag Heuer, of course) 1:12 --> basically, he is saying that his company predicted that an era may come where a division between not in house and in house was gonna be made, as it did. It all comes down to entrepreneurship, know how to smarten up your story.
Biver is only salty because now TAG will need to actually deliver on the promise of their watches being worth a damn. A 200 dollar ETA movement is much cheaper to put in to your Watch and demand 4000 dollars for it. Watch companies liks Seiko with fantastic in-house movements are making some Swiss "giants" look like fools with their generic ETA movements and expensive price tags. I wouldn't want to be caught dead wearing a TAG. Also Biver says "normal person" what normal person can afford 2000+ dollars overpriced ETA watches with the "TAG branding on them?
I own Seiko but they are not quality. Tag heuer is way better quality. Everything from cases, dials , bracelets and yes even the eta movements are better than Seiko “ in house” movements. What good is having an in-house movement that loses 15 sec a day! Seiko in-house is nothing to feel proud of. I own Tag heuer and Seiko. I wouldn’t even compare the Seiko to Tag heuer. TH much better all the way around.
He is 100% correct. The in-house movement craze is silly. Brands are charging a lot more now just to have an "in-house" movement in the watch, even though it is usually more unreliable, of course not all the time
Such a great guy! Lets face it that people dont really think about the movement before. People just buy watch before to tell time. Thats the reason why the swiss watch making plunged way back due to quartz movement coz people wants their watch to tell them accurate time. Unlike now.
Lemme get this straight, the leader of Tag Heuer taking about Swiss movements wearing a smart watch...? Tells me Tag’s problem isn’t who makes their movements.
people calling the cal 1887 a seiko movement clearly do not do enough research. only blabbing on about this so called 'info' they've read in a post by a so-called "journalist". pathetic.
I wouldn't use Seiko making it's own movements as a sign of the times, Seiko has been manufacturing movements for a long time (fully since 1956) and are a major ebauche provider to watches worldwide through their subsidiary company Seiko Instruments Inc. (like ETA of Swatch and Miyota of Citizen Group). The fact they are so large and vertically integrated (errr.. in-house) is the reason they can provide quality watches at an affordable price point.
This guy Blither-Blathers for hours and says absolutely nothing. What kind of CEO gives an interview looking like this? Couldn't he at least put a jacket on?
LOL, Jean-Claude. Tag stopped making their own movements in 2000 and have been using Seiko movements since about 2009. This would come as a bit of a shock to Tag buyers given that they sell at about five times the price of a Seiko. I was on a major horological forum recently and members were asked to identify the most overrated brand. Tag had far more votes than any other watchmaker!
50 years ago... 30 years ago... even 20 years ago, a WATCH is primarily a device to TELL TIME. Today, a WATCH is primarily a piece of JEWELRY -- an article of workmanship and exclusivity for the owner to be proud of. Utility and reliability is no longer sufficient; pedigree and rarity is what you need if you are going to charge $1000 (or more) for a watch. Utility and reliability is that Smartphone everyone has in their pocket or that Apple Watch or whatever gizmo you can get for less than ANY TAG Heuer. Any watch maker executive who doesn't understand or appreciate that by now, you should be FIRED!
But when the "Big One" hits the West Coast or Cascadian Fault in the Pacific Northwest goes boom,you can count on power being down for days even weeks. When either hits,cell towers have only 4 hours or power reserve. Keep your phone charged at all times,that 4 hours of cell tower reserve will be crucial to communicate to family.
Yes there absolutely are... watch enthusiasts tend to forget that there are people outside of the community who don't care about the little details. There are many many wealthy people who buy $6000 +++ watches who don't care about things like movements at all. They are status symbols, and they are simply something to spend money on
I feel the TAG heuer have become lazy, they rely on salita movements and Eta movements, I have an f1 cal16 which is an ETA 7750 which you will find in brands like IWC and Hamilton, prices from £1000 for the Hamilton xwind £2500 for the tag f1 chronograph and 4500 for an iwc. I just bought a Tudor black bay with an in house movement for 2860, oozes charm and depth...... My tag is going to be sold. This guy needs to wake up...
Correct me if I am wrong, but Seiko just licensed the rights to produce the movements, but does NOT manufacture the movements for Tag Heuer. With that said, Tag Heuer made the parts, assembled, and regulated in their own factory. So this is about as close to in-house as it gets. But in reality, Grand Seiko movements are some of the best made in the world and I would rather have that than some cheaper made in-house crap that the industry is trending towards.
This guy is a one trick pony all he will do for tag~heuer is make them bigger and more bling, shame that they ruined heuer heritage by joining with tag, the look on he’s face when he says perhaps to the omega comment by the interviewer. He was employed my omega when THIS happened this guy is a business man that only cares about short term success for the brand 😒 in house is very important my friends
I use to want a TAG watch. Then I started educating myself about the various movements and history. Today when I see a TAG watch I see just another Timex quartz with a very extreme price. I laugh when I see someone wearing a TAG now. When I find a watch I like I try to find which movement it has. Then I search for other watches that look very similar with same movement and compare price versus case features and material to actually separate the value. It is amazing how two watches using the same movement and same case material and same styles but different "brand" and be such large price difference between them. I think, like me, watch buyers are simply getting more educated and buying a $300 watch over the $1500 watch with the same movement. Watch manufacturers are simply trying to figure out how to get the customers to return to be willing to buy that $1500 watch over the $300 watch. I believe the consumer is going to be fooled again though when it becomes common knowledge that the manufacturers are maybe modifying one small aspect of a common eta movement that is insignificant and calling it "in-house"
Well I think majority of watch buyers buy for looks and name. Caring about the movement is 3rd. Atleast for me. Ive always wanted the Tag Carrera 01 skeleton. Its a real eye catching Automatic with a great name. Bottom line, its about how much money you have. I could never justify a Patek with a basic movement, if i was rich then I would. Id buy a Patek if i could afford one, why? Cuz its a Patek. But don't knock the guy who can afford a 3-5k$ watch cuz its not worth it to you. Tags are still very well built watches. I could go cheap and buy something for$50, so could you? 99.9% of the time we look at our cell phones for time.
@@rkwjunior2298 agreed. But realistically, I look at my smart phone about 60% of the time, to glance the hour. The remaining goes towards peeping my wrist watch.
There is absolutely quality difference in a $300 watch and a $3000 watch with an ETA movement. The case, bracelet, clasps quality and finishing. The movement grade and finishing done to the movement. But yes, the $3000 watch quality is not 10x better than the $300 watch. I believe its gets exponentially more expensive to improve the quality when you pass a $500~$800 price point. Many people talks about Tudor being similar Rolex quality but yet my Pelagos have rattling endlinks and slight misaligned bezel. I have also heard of BlackBay having rattling endlinks as well so yes, I think there is a difference in fit and finish between a $300 microbrand and a $3000 Breitling just like Tudor and Rolex albeit the difference may not be as much as we want.
Bullshit. Keep your overpriced crap. This isn't 30 or 60 years ago and all brands that are charging what your company does are using in house movements. $3600 USD (retail) for a Calibre 5 with a fucking SW200 in it don't cut it bud.
What a fucking joke. The 1887 "inhouse" movement is just a rebranded seiko. No hate on seiko, but don't try to pass an inhouse when it's not. This company is a scam as long as biver is on top.
The problem is that if you aren't absorbing the R&D and manufacturing cost of a proprietary watch movement then why am I paying 3-6k for your watch? Continue to have that attitude and you will continue to be the official overpriced fashion dude-bro watch brand.
It's E-T-A, not "Etta". And it's still ETA that does most of the custom finishes and all the so-called BS "up-grades" made to order for all these companies, do you really think for a moment that a company that would use their movements is really capable of doing that kind of work to something that's already built? And it's also ETA again that's making the new so-called "in-house" movements for its other Swatch Group counterparts, anything Swatch Group is in-house, you credulous dope! Stop believing the industry lies and their Swiss slight of hand.
No. It's pronounced how it's written, since ETA is not an abbreviation for anything. And I think M. Biver, who has worked at AP, Blancpain, Omega, Hublot, and now (obviously) Tag Heuer, would know how to pronounce ETA.
Well, Vacheron Constantin was always pretty damned good at finishing movements and until not so long ago, I don't think they produced any of their calibers, sourcing them instead from makers such as Jaeger-LeCoultre.
