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loot Talent is just a headstart for someone to be good at something. You may have a talent but becoming a pro is all hard work, dedication, and the willingness to learn.
5:15 I cannot stress how right he is here. There’s a saying: “Competition keeps you in condition”. You might be the big fish in a little pond but that doesn’t mean much when you decide to see how good you are in the ocean. You need people who can elevate your game, in and out of fighting games. You need people who understand that you’re trying to improve and help on that!
Muffin Man Uriah Hall used to say he learned MMA from playing, Tekken in the Arcades. 😂 I wish you the best of luck! Most fighting I would do is the gaming kind.
@@usernameluis305 yeah some friends are like that. I'm lucky my friends aren't they love playing fighting games and I'm the newbie and they love seeing me have my firsts in the fgc. I just went to a smash tournament with them and it was so fun. We just practiced against each other and were having fun watching each other's matches. And laughing at each other when we got our asses kicked. I got two wins by no show actually lol
Hell yea that’s why I’m playing ranked in apex legends. I’ve felt so much progress during my time playing that game and I love it. I’m trying to get to master rank and I’m in platinum rank.
Dood, I swear you could teach a class. Like, a legit classroom on fighting games. Desks and everything. Demonstrations, inspiring speeches, lectures on the craft of fighting games. You’re a teacher at the stuff. You emanate a natural charisma that is just unmatched.
I've watched fighting games for years, but I've only tried a couple of them because they're too hard to not completely suck at. If Max did a legit educational series of videos from the ground up, I would try again 100%.
"It's true, some are born with talent and those that aren't, but no one with talent ever made it on talent alone. They overcome. Find boundaries and break them. The only way to grow is the be challenged" -Kazuma Kiryu
Narrator: "At the age of 10, he first mastered the game of hop-scotch..Little did he know, this would apply later in his life when he discovered...Street Fighter!"
Not gonna lie, i got recently into fighting games a year ago and after months of progress i improved quite a lot. Because of this, it broken the barrier for me and now i wanna learn how to draw and will try to stay committed
"He lived there." You know...there's only so many things I'm willing to put that much time into. It's kind of sad to think about how some things I'll never grow because of how hard that path is. (For the record, currently working on drawing, everyday. Other things? Not so much.)
I'm drawing and playing drums. What sucks is I'm putting more work into drawing because I really want to become better while drumming is just a hobby, but I'm progressing more with my drumming. Might be because I've been doing it longer.
Yeah, not downing anyone, but I think it's nice to realize early on that you'll never be "great" at something because you realistically don't have enough time or inspiration to put into it. Anyone can be "good" at something, but landing top 500 in SFV ranked let alone a slot in Capcom Cup... it's a huge commitment!
@@LordBaktor You need to push yourself to grow. That does mean drawing more, and attempting things you haven't done before, but it isn't just that. It also means looking at what other people do. Learn their techniques. Be able to do what they do and see if you keep or discard that. Understanding what is possible helps you grow and practice helps you mature. To become great you need both.
@@LordBaktor thats got a bit to do with psychology, since drumming is a hobby you probably take it less seriously wich helps you get enjoymebt and learn faster. There a documentary by Jim Kwik about these things if you wanna check it out
I say this a lot on a lot of fighting game videos, but MK11 has one of the best tutorials in a fighting game I've ever played. It is divvied up and explains every mechanic thoroughly. There is no excuse not to know or understand something because the game isn't afraid to explain things to someone new to their game. Then there's other fighting games I've tried like Tekken and Dragonball FighterZ, where you get no tutorial and your only tutorial is sitting in practice mode fumbling around until you get bored. Or it treats you like you're an idiot by telling you "X X X X Y" is a combo and that is the entirety of the lesson. They don't teach you anything and if you question it or criticize it you're told you're just bad by the community and told to "git gud" or just to kill yourself. MK11 tells you what strings do what, what is safe, what isn't, what can be countered, the frame data for what's safe, not, gives you advantage, etc. If more fighting games adopted a friendlier tutorial setup that's actually, I don't know, nice and considerate to new players, instead of throwing them in the deep end and making fun of you while you drown, then maybe fighting games wouldn't be so niche. Not everyone got to grow up in the arcade playing MK2 and Street Fighter. Not everyone has been able or even wanted to play fighting games all their life, so don't belittle someone for struggling or not understanding something, when in reality the game itself should be explaining these things to newcomers better. No one wants casuals "mucking" up their games but then the games don't sell or the series dies or it takes ages for a new game to come out. People still throw a bitchfit over DBFZ having an autocombo system when it's about the most useless system ever because you won't see any pro utilizing them outside of some of some combo extensions they provide. No one is asking for your favorite fighter to be stripped of its identity for the sake of casuals. The least they could do is give proper tutorials instead of assuming everyone playing their game is SonicFox and plans on sticking with it for the rest of their life until they're good. I've noticed this is mostly a thing in Japanese fighting games, where they don't give a shit about new players. Just play and learn on your own or fuck off. This is why I dropped Tekken 7, because I had no idea what was happening, what moves did what, the inputs were too difficult, and the game couldn't be bothered to teach me anything, so I couldn't be bothered to play it. Sorry, I'm not spending 3 weeks browsing forums and RU-vid videos for help. At least Soul Calibur bothered to give written tutorials you can pause and read I think whenever you want. It's a fucking novella for every character but at least it's better than nothing. I don't know what the phobia with tutorials is, unless it's just a lack of care or effort. I know no one wants to admit it, but if DBFZ didn't have the DB IP, it wouldn't have sold as well as it did, and its shortcuts and shortcomings wouldn't have been so easily brushed aside. The IP sold that game alone, and they knew that. That's why it took 3 seasons before they even bothered to try to give proper tutorials with that game, which imo is too little too late, since I doubt there are people still flocking to that game in droves like they were when it first got released, but I could be wrong. I know updates bring people back, but never for long. TL;DR - Put better tutorials in fighting games that explain mechanics better, including advice and warnings, as well as frame data, and apply the latter to every single character.
@@Kaliospectre no you wouldn’t. Because it sucks as a tutorial. It teaches everything but neutral, which is the real reason no one plays fighting games. Until a tutorial teaches you how to apply that knowledge instead of banking on getting that situation to happen for you every fg tutorial is fucking trash.
Love your attitude man so much respect for your work ethic too. I've been learning Japanese for over 10 years (I live in Osaka) and I still have so much to learn but there are plenty of people who never even try. You gotta keep pushing forward its the only way!
I remember the first time I actually remember when I first fought Max on SF3, I was ignorant I was pissed because people were better then me, but after like 10 years and learning with hardwork, and you putting out this video Max, I want to say thank you for what you do for the fighting game community you give people like us hope for us to be better.
@@17thknight Well some of us love the challenge man, for me it's fun and exciting to constantly learn and improve. Been playing fighting games since the 90's and it's still my favorite genre.
Lol, it takes a week in any fighting game to begin to learn to move. Fighting games are niche as fuck because the barrier to entry is My Everest and once you scale it you're still the worst player on Earth. It isn't worth it and it never will be. The genre is too obtuse. The very existence of the DP motion and similar dumb shit is the death of the genre
@@ooqan if it gets to the point where you can at least grasp something and move from there it should be good enough. One of the issues I have with fighting games is that a lot of things have convinced me that you cannot have fun with a game at all unless you want to be competitive. I don't give a shit about being competitive (I lose all the time to my one friend in Smash) but it makes me feel like I'm having fun wrong if I don't care about putting in tons of hours of work into a single game when I want to play a lot of different games. Skullgirls is my favorite fighting game of all time but I don't want to play it for the rest of my life. I want to play Guilty Gear and Smash and Mario Kart and Dark Souls and Persona, and throwing such a large amount into a single game makes me miss out on everything else that exists.
4:30 - if someone picks up on the concept of neutral quicker than others, wouldn't you say that person has more natural ability? I feel the talent vs hard work argument has been answered a long time ago and the answer is pretty simple: talent is helpful but isn't the end-all-be-all.
@Chris Villa I still don't think so. If someone picks up the concept of neutral faster, are they both practicing the same amount are they both watching replays? Are they both put in the exact situation? Maybe player 1 is up against a guy who keeps on jumping in so he learns anti-airs faster but not neutral while player tool deals with a patient player who is good at footsies. There is no replication. Which Wraps back around to the point at 5:15
@@andrewaguero2556 And that's exactly the point that makes the argument live on... . In the case of "Hard work (alone) VS Talent+Hard work", yes someone talented wins. Most people start by using "talent" as this miracle definition of geniuses that are the best even if they don't work, then the only argument to prove wrong people who disagree is to compare a totally different scenario aka the one quoted above. There's trhee scenarios, you can't just pick whatever fit best while the talk is about a totally different situation. . "Talent (alone) VS Hard work (alone)" loses since one will stagnate while the other player progresses. "Talent (alone) VS Talent+Hard work" loses, same reasons, more visible since both had a head-start. "Talent+Hard work VS Hard work (alone)" wins since the difference is something the other don't have. . What makes a player win over another, depends on what makes them different. Talent isn't a miracle answer. In fact, the third scenario, the one you talk about, is the only one is which talent plays a significant role. . But make the amount of hard work fluctuate (which happens all the time outside of pro level because "talented" people tends to think they can have it easy) and even the other player may end up above them as learning curve goes. (usually it's balanced since rivalry encourage the talented player to get back at training)
I agree. Some people do have a natural ability to grasp the mechanics of a fighting game more than others, but the truth is anyone can "git gud" with repetition, time, and dedication.
Talent is mostly(or should be) referred to as natural ability. People function differently so some things will always come much more naturally to others while plenty also struggle with some of the most basic of things. Talent is absolutely not this "gift of the gods" sort of thing everyone in the world makes it out to be. But you also can't deny that natural talent exists, because talented people can easily work just as hard as any normal joe-schmoe could and make progress that is ultimately world's apart from what a normal person could do. Its just always been about dedication, which is something that many, including myself, struggle to keep. I for one don't have any lasting dedication, especially for fighting games. I have thousands of hours in Smash throughout the entire series yet have only improved to a barely average level after years of playing and even practicing. But I also don't want to dedicate my life to one game despite my desire to want to be better. So I simply have to live with the disheartening fact that I'll never improve beyond my current level. This is the reality that literally numerous people have to go through with fighting games, hence why competitive players will never outweigh the causals. A well known common fact but is incredibly telling all the same. Fighting games are rough and while I do commend the players out there with sheer amount of will and dedication they've put into getting better and even going pro, talent or no, many people will hit the wall for one reason or another and never even see a glimpse of even the top of the average players
I know I already commented, but I freakin love the rant about playing footsies in real life. I'm a counselor and I'm probably going to use that at some point!
You have to really WANT to learn how to be good at something. If you're just focused on the end goal of being good and not the process of getting better and learning from your mistakes, you'll never have the motivation to actually get good. This is a great lesson, Max! Thank you!
I think theres games where yes, time put in is necessary, but theres that talent Especially in shooters, its like they were made for that, and in other genres FIghting games, i feel like theres not that many talent, its pure hard work and passion
There's no shortcut for anything in life leave alone getting good at FG's!! Usually the shortcuts land you in a worse possible situation than a regular one.
The physical element argument only works to a certain extent. You absolutely cannot compete in the NBA if you are in a wheelchair, for example. While there might not be natural talent or shortcuts to greatness in certain competitive games and sports, there are some elements of luck in terms of physical, geographical, and financial limitations. Michael Jordan is the best basketball player of all time, but he also grew up in a town that had a basketball team, got seen by the right scout to go to a college with a good team, had great coaches along the way, and ended up being 6'6"
Yessssss, but you can be given a template, you still have to use it. You can't make a cake without flour but just giving someone flour, eggs, milk etc. doesn't mean they can make the cake without practice and/or instruction.
You know that being a wheelchair have nothing to do with lacking talent, right? Both players could be equaly talented, or even the disabled player could used to be the more talented back when they could walk, but the fact they can't compete anymore have nothing to do with talent in this case you mentioned...The variable here isn't talent, it's that one can run and jump while the other is stuck in a freaking wheelchair. . People really need to stop trying to make their point by using BS in which the variable have nothing to do with the subject... . Other than that, I totally agree with the Michael Jordan part, the opportunities and hard work put in largely outweight his natural tallness alone. At same talent level it's hard work and learning capabilities that are the important variables.
@@arcengal Obviously that's true. Of course it's all of that plus hard work, but it's disingenuous to say that anyone who works hard can be successful at something.
SivartAuhsoj I mean, I’m legally blind. I could work hard to be good at basket ball as a pastime activity. If I play enough, I could get real good. But I still have bad depth perception. But also, that has nothing to do with skill. But it has to do with certain traits.
I've been learning since MK9, my friend showed me that game and I fell in love with it. I then got every NeatherRealm Game after that, getting better and better. I tried Tekken TT2 and loved it so much, my love for Fighting Games got bigger. I'm glad you were there to support and entertain along the way. Thanks Max
4:12 I feel the need to point out that, having seen some of those same programs and being a professional teacher, that most professional fighting game players are *terrible* teachers, *particularly* when their pupil is someone with no fighting game experience. Many who are at the top level of competition have forgotten what it even means to be that new to a subject and think that they are starting with basics talking about neutral, footsies, and bnb combos (see Woolie Madden's DBFZ video for beginners for an EXCELLENT example of this.) There is a concept in pedagogy called the Zone of Proximal Development that these approaches utterly fail at (look it up if curious.) All this to say: teaching something and being good at something are related skills, but not the same skill.
this is exactly what happened to me when I was trying to get better at DBFZ and was searching for forums and servers for help to see wtf I was doing wrong. People were as nice as they could be trying to explain mechanics and inputs for BnB combos and techniques, meanwhile I'm sitting here with a blank face not even comprehending half of what they're telling me, let alone being able to execute what they were treating as stuff that was stupidly easy, and when I said that I wasn't able to do certain "easy" things it sorta stopped them in their tracks. I mean I'll give them credit they tried helping me but if people are going to try and play teacher, they need to be more patient and understanding, remembering that not everyone knows fighting game terminology and not everyone has been playing since they've been able to hold a controller. You don't teach someone to drive in a Formula 1 car.
I've watched countless programming tutorials on YT, and they all still fail at proper tutorials. I don't need a history lesson, nor do I need to learn every non essential language. They just don't show you the basics of why/what/how/etc. Most of them are already experienced programmers, so they never look at how to deal with complete newcomers, and get way to tech savvy. I still haven't found anyone who knows their stuff, and can teach it properly to someone who knows nothing about programming. Maybe it's too hard, even for the smartest person in this field. I don't know. All I can do is take important bits here and there and try to figure it out for myself.
This is the truest shit I have ever heard. As a young jazz musician, I learned it pretty fast, but in this way. Rather than practicing 3 hours a day, I didn’t even count. Some nights I didn’t sleep. The nights where I did, I would listen to jazz and sometimes metronomes to build my internal clock and familiarity.Some nights my friends wanted to play games or go to Friday night magic, but I said no. I spent weekends away from my family. Because of that, I was able to get into the hs jazz band (beating jrs) in 7th grade. It also pisses me off when ppl talk about gear. I literally practiced parts on my knees until they bled during lunch and whenever I was away from my (very bad) drumset. Even now, I find completely incompetent in comparison to most people I encounter. Basically, everything max said was absolutely true and carries over to other fields.
I just started playing Granblue Fantasy Versus. I am very new to fighting games and it's clear to everyone online. There are so many levels to competition. It's fun:)
"It's an absolute myth that natural talent exists. Same thing goes for everything in life" I understand what Max is trying to say, but this has literally been scientifically proven wrong many, many times. That's literally, and I mean literally like saying "We all have the exact same central nervous system, genetic code, and epigenetic responses to environmental factors". Andy Bolton, the world record deadlifter, deadlifted 600 lbs the very first time he tried it. There are 4 year old kids that learn Mozart pieces after a month of playing. And no, I'm not talking about kids that are forced to do it. Google Emily Bear if you're skeptical. Another musical example would be perfect pitch vs. tone deaf individuals. Perfect pitch can't be learnt. It's impossible; you can only have very, very good relative pitch that's comparable. Sorry, that was just a ramble. But I'm a fitness coach and I've seen the data on this, so I have strong feelings about it (read 'The Sports Gene" by David Epstein if you're interested). That being said, I still think that working hard enough at something will most likely lead to becoming elite, but you'd better be working harder than the person with more talent. Period.
I agree. Talent and genetics are always a factor in everything one does in life. As does Luck. Saying those are myths and don't exist is naive at best and utterly foolish at worst. Talent can be ease of learning or being straight up good at something first try. If a talented person works hard to improve their talent, 8 times out of 10 they will always beat the guy who is not talented but worked his ass off to be at the same level. While the talented had to work arguably less due to natural affinity. But Max has a good point, you need to keep trying to get better and improve. Not letting yourself be discouraged by countless failures, which after a while it's very easy to become disillusioned and absolutely discouraged. The Dating scene is the **biggest** example of this. Some people are naturally attractive, and need less work to connect and get dates than others who don't, those people have to work their assess off, go through multiple rejections and have to deal with not being good enough for others multiple times. It's a straight up numbers game at that point. As is everything. Dealing with failure and moving forward is part of being human. Even when you fail when something isn't your fault and there legitimately is nothing to improve. (something very common in romance and dating, but people don't like to admit).
How about that Dr. Bruce Lipton about even DNA cells can changes (we just don't know how to "do it" directly)? I know we have some gifted skillsets, and after all we can't replace every damn cells in a day. So yeah, things take time and effort.
I'm mostly a casual fighting gamer, but there was only one game I really fell in love with and that was Blazblue, specifically the 2nd iteration Blazblue Continuum. At first iteration I enjoyed it for the chaos and the complexity of the matches. But once the second game out, I found a character that I truly enjoyed played, Hazama. At first It was all just casual feeling and just trying to figure out the game but I lost 100% of the time. I decided to put some time into the game, as I was really bad at 2D fighting game or any fighting game, even if I have played many other games before such as Street Fighter EX Alpha, MK1 on Snes or Tekken 2/3. But when it came to the strict feeling of doing hitconfirms, combos, tactical decision, fake outs, feints etc. I was clueless. It took me 4 months of training, constant training in training mode, fighting other people after 2-4 days of constant training and timing to the inputs of that hard as balls game to play. Blisters, bleeding thumbs, using a Ps3 controller, worn out controller inputs (Which was replaced), several hours constant focus to the point where I forgot to eat or sleep, or just became nauseous and collapsed infront of the game. And this was during my University years, so it was a heavy time investment ( University went fine though, Priority 1 still). But I still wanted to become good. And after 4 months of playing nothing but this game, I finally felt like I had a grasp and started to win against other players who played this for longer. And this is where I started to love the game and I will never not love this mainline series. And I never attend proper large tournaments, I just wanted to get good at a game that I had very little knowledge about, and today I can say I am a threat to most players no matter what skill level. I played a few sidetourneys and other players that played this for years and I still will with the latest iteration Blazblue Central Fiction. It was hell for my body and my hands, but I loved what came out of it. If you love a game, you will put time into it. And once you get a grasp of the game, you will always improve and have fun while doing so.
Talent is a myth? That is objectively false, things like high reactions, awareness, reflexes, stamina and memory are different for everybody and not everybody is born with all those traits, having a combination of all of those is basically what talent is. Talent is definitely a thing it's just depends on how far you are willing to take advantage of that talent.
That Rock Lee/Gaara fight in Naruto is basically this. For sure, hard work can eclipse gifted people who get lazy, but there’s also a point where somebody’s inherent gifts can still win out over hard work.
It’s only a select few with raw talent that’ll be able to pick something up and be good at. If you put in the time, nobody with that talent will be able to beat you at the thing you trained hard for. Talent and knowledge are two different things. While gaining knowledge you also learn new skills. Sometimes people with talent don’t want to be the best at things, so they don’t try super hard
Honestly, i think natural talent does exist, but there's millions of people who are naturally talented at fighting games that don't play them. The difference that 'talent' makes up is like half a percent. The difference that physical ability makes up is half a percent. But hard work and loving what you're doing is the rest... and community. "Fighting games are something so great"
Dude... it is this kind of talk that Max brings and his overall understanding of how life works and giving your best, even at tough times, is the kind of stuff that really makes me feel like Max is going to be the best dad ever. I already felt this way, but damn... really powerful stuff he said here.
I am one of the suckiest players when it comes to Smash Bros but I try to at least get 1-2 hrs of play time before or after work with K Rool so I can burn it into my head what is a good option and what is a bad one. I don't focus on combos or anything fancy because I have to be good at fundementals before graduating to the upper tier of the game.
If you try purely to understand the game, playing a fundamental character is better, so you focus more on more.. purist concepts like neutral, spacing, even walking and stuff.
Art Golem, while you're at it, you may as well use others characters. focusing on one character is good, but if you do as you say, wich is to learn fundamentals and options, learning what other charaters can and can't do is such a good information to gain. It's so important in Fg to understand match ups, and smash bros is specially hard on it considering the size of the roster.
"Its an absolute myth that natural Talent exists" This just isn't true, At least not entirely. You silghtly proved why at 4:30 in the video. People are born with different brains and brain chemistry. Sure, Nobody is going to come out of their mothers womb playing Mozart but people definitely are born with a higher ability to learn how to do so at a young age. You brought up a few players physical with disabilities like Brolylegs and Wheels. Players like these legends in my eyes for being able to play at such a high level despite their physical disabilities, however (as far as I know) they still have high functioning brains. Their hard work and determination is definitely a factor and is a major reason they're so good but they also have brains that allow them to Adapt, Learn, and Overcome certain obstacles. You don't need to have high dexterity or be able to do max damage combos to do well in fighting games, But you do need is the ability to process information quickly. Reactions are one thing, but being able to take note of your opponents patterns and quickly make proper adjustments to take advantage of that requires brain power, brain power that not everyone has.
I think there is also the element of you play what you played as a kid. If you didn't play fighting games as a kid it is VERY hard to get into them later in life. When you are younger you usually only have 1-2 main games you play, and you play them, a lot. For me it was third person action styled games. I have those skills down to muscle. Put me in front of a fighting game and almost everything I know about controlling a game goes out the window. I can play enough to get through the story mode then I stop having fun. If it is not fun I have trouble to keep playing. It is like learning a language in a way. If you learn it young you can learn more later in life, if you learn it when you are older it is VERY difficult.
@@account7164 that is an excuse. If you put everything you have you can do ANYTHING. But that does mean sometimes sacrifices are necessary. Like not playing other games, or sometimes not having fun but keep playing cuz u wanna be the best
It's a myth that "Talent" exist, at least when it comes to the definition from people who use the word all the time. Talent is having better capabilities to do something at a base level, which translate into the skills learnt along the way. It's a head-start. Someone who learn to read perfectly an opponent after a round or less may be skilled to learn on the fly. Someone who get what their options are at a fast rate may simply have a better memory than someone who need to "hard-code" them options like a kid preparing for a test at school. In that sense, yes, talent exist. But "Talent" as people use it all the time is disgusting. And as an artist I hear double the amount of that utter BS about how "you succeed because you're talented, totally needed no training for that. Oh I wish I was talented and I could even try to do the same." Sounds familiar? Yeah... "Talent" as used by the masses is just an excuse to look away from the hard work and training, like if you were a freak who can make it happen by magic and bonus points for "I don't even try because I can't compete against guys like you out there". Like seriously, nobody is born a pro painter or a pro player, and not everyone have to strive for being n°1 at what they do. Using talent as an excuse to not put in word AND make the ones who did invest time in a craft feel bad? It's just disgusting... Someone without talent but who puts alot of hard work daily will always surpass a genius who work a day per year on their stuff. May take years, the odds are crushing and discouraging, but it WILL happen as long as they keep up long enough. EDIT: What's with youtube deleting spaces between paragraphs lately..? That too is somewhat disgusting xD
Natural talent is definitely a thing. You just have to hone it into sharp skill. To say it doesnt exist is pretty asinine. There are definitely people who are good at things without ever having done them and they wont be top tier but they'll be damn good for some reason. Even reaction times change how good someone will be.
Yeah, I agree with this sentiment heavily. It's gonna take ages and ages to get good, and even then, once you *are* good, you have to keep playing in order to stay good. I just got back into FighterZ once UI Goku came out, and I spent 95% of my time in training mode figuring out things, fighting and testing out different matchups, and I finally thought I was ready to go online. Got waxed every single match. You gotta put TIME in if you want any consistent wins at all. As for the whole "arcade stick gives you an advantage" thing - BULLSHIT. If anything, it's a hindrance if you're not used to it. Learning to use stick also takes time, and you probably won't be able to do it for all games. I learnt how to use stick in BBTAG, my main fighting game that I actually AM somewhat good at, and it made me worse at first. It takes weeks or even months to build up new muscle memory for that shit. And that's not even counting button layouts, which you'll want to keep as similar as possible. I literally can't play FighterZ due to the assist buttons being in an awkward spot with the layout I try to build muscle memory with (UMVC3) so I went back to pad and I'm getting better with that. It literally doesn't matter what you use, as long as you can use it WELL.
I disagree that there’s no “natural talent.” There is natural talent. But, more is required. Basically someone can work hard putting in 40 hours a week on a skill for 25 weeks (they say it takes 1,000 hours to become an expert..) and still not be good enough. Someone with natural talent can put in less time and be just as good, but not good enough. You kinda need both natural talent and hours and hours of work. Basically nearly everyone of the 360 players in the NBA works hard regularly and has been working hard since they were young. But this extremely exclusive club has many who never touch foot on the court and some who can dictate trades (like Lebron James). Lebron is definitely a hard worker... he’s also very tall and has natural talent that allows his hard work to pay off even more that the 12th man who’s only gonna touch the court if a few people get hurt or they have a 30 point lead near the end of the 4th quarter. That guy also works hard. But, he’s not as talented as the rest of the NBA starters. Basically you need hard work to succeed. But natural talent along with that will help you become the best.
I watched your vid titled REAL TALK: Understand How To Get Better At Fighting Games a while back and it was eye-opening for me. I loved a few fighting games over the years but I was never good enough to beat ppl multple times and never quite understood why or how to improve. Then you broke the system down so effortlessly, I almost sh*t myself at how naive I was back then. Life lessons to take away from here is a fact of life. You find something you can be truly be passionate about because, if you wont love doing it, you wont put in the time, effort and care to research and understand the ins and outs of it. You wont learn and grow at all at something if you are not deeply passionate about it enough to care.
Me being born with bad hand-eye coordination and bad reaction time that I went to school for a lot, I've tried practicing for the better part of a few months and I still just barely am able to get the most basic shit down, and it's very frustrating but it's all about continuing to try, plus this is just me getting into fighting games at 18
Damn great quote literal have never heard it before. It so unique and clever I'm sure you thoutgh if yourself because I've never heard that one before.
Also there is several other factors like good teachers, passion, also opportunities. Its not talent vs hardwoking alone that make u successful, those other parts also play important roles.
As much as I would like for this to be true, it's not. If someone has innate talent and puts in the same amount of repeated hard work and effort they will always beat someone who puts in that effort but without the innate talent. I was a tutor for math and some of them tried a thousand times longer and harder than I ever did, but they couldn't even approach the level of math processing I could do in a minute. I can't even blame them for not trying. I cannot imagine fighting games would be an exception. That's not to say that you shouldn't work hard, of course. Talent only goes so far.
@@kodosquea1994 u yourself are creating this huge wall. Saying u can't do it cuz this or that. But anyone can make it to the top if it has what it takes. And that means hours upon hours of sometimes even not having literally any fun but just for the sake of being the best
@@kodosquea1994 You just checkmate yourself there, mate! . *If someone has innate talent and puts in the same amount of repeated hard work and effort they will always beat someone who puts in that effort but without the innate talent* . Yes, indeed, at same level of hard work someone talented beats someone who isn't. That's the point, talent is a head-start that translate into the skills you learn along the way. But that's it. . The saying of the original comment, about how hard work beats talents, is how hard work alone beats talent alone. As in someone training daily for years will reach the same level as a "genius" who work a day per year on their stuff. Can't really deny that, right? . Your exemple is someone talented who work hard, what makes them super good at what they're doing right now, but that doesn't mean they always had this level right at the start. They too had a progression curve. They too had their losses, and had to learn. . Sure, they did learn at a faster rate than random players, and practice enough to keep their level, but at this point it's their own hard work that pay off more than talent alone. Talent is good to learn faster and that's it. Once at the top, only the amount of hard work makes one be n°1 instead of top-5, because that's the variable in there that counts "at equal talent level".
@@superxdish Nope, I am speaking as someone who has made it to the top in other fields that I won't mention here. I put in a lot of hard work too, of course. But I have seen people put in a lot of hard work and fail to reach even near where I did, because they did not have the talent.
100% agree with you Max. Definitely a concept that applies to everything in life and not just fighting games - something i realised a few years ago. If you want to get good at anything (be it; working out at the gym, getting good at a video game, learning a language, building a business), you have to be willing to put the work in and be super consistent. Consistency is key ladies and gentlemen 👏.
honestly, this goes further than just fighting games. you can apply this advice to almost anything in life. hard work truly pays off. for some it may take longer, but if you love something you will find a way.
As a BB,DBFZ,KOF and Smash Player,Figuring out the basics took me around months, same as mistakes ,same as learning characters, matchups and dealing with the chesse any game has, is totally Fun Im not even good in any of those , Getting my ass whooped more and less every time is more worted than just rush and expecting consistency, like so many people desesperely wants.
You might be born with talent, but it's hard work that makes you famous and better than other talented people. Hard work is the great winner of battles.
@@SonnyBA1 Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. The thing is tho Talent will always beat only hard work when Talent works hard! If someone has talent and they bust there butt off. They will beat people who don't have that talent. Its just how it is
"Talent VS hard work: Is there shortcuts to X" In art, we say that talent is a Head-start, the only "shortcuts" are to understand early how important the fundamentals are instead of ignoring them, and of course to find the right way for you to learn instead of pushing toward a method you're not fully compatible with. There's no magic recipe of succes aside of "fail till you can make your creation acceptable". The same apply everywhere, doing nothing but trying to find shortcut will make you invest time in sub-optimal stuff at best, wasteful stuff most of the time. Sure, someone more skilled at learning on the fly will read their opponent better after a round or two, and someone with a better memory will memorize their options and the opponent's faster than someone who needs to hard-learn them ilike a kid in school. But that's it, talent alone is just a head-start, not an easy mode. Train your fundamentals, aka learning how to deal with most common situations, and you'll beat that guy with a perfect exec but who always go for "that one combo" all the time. Find your way to train and compete in an environment that make you progress rather than an oppressing one and you'll not "rage-quit or just come back once a year to the game" making progress slowly but at a steady pace. "Never use it and you'll lose it", just like learning a new language and never using it outside of classes. There's no magic recipe and once skills in previous games may transfer partially to others of the same genre, anything involving memory or muscle memory is like sports. You need to practce to stay in shape no matter how talented you are or if 20years ago you were the talk of the town. I wish I could get back in fighting games...But art is a demanding mistress, I don't play much anything nowdays because of this timesink... ^^"
man, I have wanted to make a fighting game, (the art for it rather) for a while now, its not gonna happen anytime soon maybe never, but its videos and people like max that makes me want to ask them "can you help make a good fighting game?" from people who actually play these games all the damn time. so inspiring.
Agreed. One of the best pvpers on my WoW server was a guildmate and he had use of two fi gers on his left had, 3 on his right, and had 50% head movement. Dude OWNED in the arena
Max, You are awesome Man. I have been watching your channels since MVC 3 was really popuplar. I really just wanted to give you shout for the gratitude I have in what you taught me in fighting games, and the insipration you inspire in me to get better at these games I love. You Rock! Your content is really good keep it up! IF Marvel vs Capcom 2 is a thing in the free MVC 2 movement - Please try to get the old cast back together for lets play! That was so much fun watching those videos for MVC 3 ultimate. I am still waiting for the day Vergil made a entrance into the Fray!
But... Some people DO have quicker reaction times, are stronger, taller, more genetically prone to be muscular and this DOES give them an edge. Yes sometimes you can overtake these people by putting in 100s of thousands of hours but if they put in the same amount of practice as you they WILL beat you.
So? Is that an excuse for not putting in the time? If the 'talented' person put in as much time as you training then they deserve to beat you, they worked for it. There will always be someone better than you, even when you think that there isn't, someone will beat you, the faster people get that in their heads, the better they'll be. But that doesn't mean you can't be better than someone. If you train harder and you put more time than someone who you think has 'innate talent' but doesn't practice as much, you will surpass them, no question.
Thanks to you Max, I now see fighting games (or heck even games in general) from a completely different perspective. The 1st mins of the vid where you explain how it's like to be good at fighting games, I agree 100% with you there. You must admit at times that if you are forging a playstyle in X game, you still can improve it instead of feeling bad because you lost 2 or 3 times. By looking at what was done wrong in the previous matches you will notice what needs to be fixed on your own playstyle.
"Some people pick it up faster" ...so, talent? Ofcourse talent is a thing, everyone who ever played sports as a little kid knows that all to well, some people just had a natural affinity for a ball or a certain sport and picked it up immediately, and they couldn't have worked hard at it... because they were children! Saying talent is not a thing is a HUGE disservice to the people who work their ASS off to get great at something they dont have a natural affinity for. Now arguing that it's ALL talent, that ofcourse is just dumb, just like we've all seen people with talent, we've also seen those people just throw it away, and not work hard, and get passed by the people who DO work hard, usually the top of the top are people with talent, who ALSO work incredibly hard and have fantastic work ethics.
Amen. I've played tekken since tekken 3 onward, and not on a professional level, but even playing friends throughout the years it takes dedication to learn play styles and moves. Fighting games are very much about muscle memory and adapting to opponent's playstyle, and then breaking it if you can.
You know the mentality behind talent not existing is good. Working hard gets you places and that’s a healthy mentality. But no amount of working hard will make you as good at swimming as Michael Phelps or as good at basketball as Lebron James and the same applies to games. No amount of hard work is going to make you think like Sonicfox or block like Go1. You’re not going to hit confirm like punk does unless you’re born like that. These are exceptional people and they are capable of what they do because they work hard and are talented. I feel it’s unhealthy to just right off their talent as “well they just work harder than me I could be as good as them if I wanted to but I just don’t (insert excuse here) enough.” So appreciate the talent of these great players. They don’t come around that often.
Lol i know it's been 2 years but this comment just doesn't make sense. Just convolutional on the word "talent" with examples of people that got defeated by other players too. "Amazing people must have talent, if not they would not be amazing." "Talent" is just the word people use to describe the part of the learning process that they don't understand. And it makes them feel better. That's it.
I'm a year into playing fighting games in 2022. I could even do a quarter circle motion. But just now am I starting to understand neutral and anti air and spacing. I'm really in love with fighting games. It does take a while
There doesn't exist any activity where you can be good without effort. Any sport, game, hobby, etc, will require commitment. Pick something you're passionate about and give in to the grind.
Pretty much, sadly its why fighting games arent more popular. If tou want to be good at COD you just need to play and acctually try for 2-3 hours a night for like 2 weeks you will be pretty good. Not a pto, but good.
@@outlaw451 Another reason is because unlike most shooters you don't have teammates to help you out in a game and if you lose you can't shift the blame onto your teammates
This reminds me of when people ask me how I'm so good at art, or compliment my art by throwing their own under the bus. Like, I have been drawing since I was 2. I'm 27 now. That's a lot of time and effort put into my craft. I've put in *years* of practice and studying of the fundamentals to get where I am. It's not a natural talent I was born with. I was just lucky that I was born into a family that values and appreciates art and they let me make it into a career. But other than that, anyone can do art. It just takes practice and time.
“compliment my art by throwing their own under the bus” finally someone else is calling this shit out. god i fucking hate seeing that shit, people really don’t know how to complement others without putting themselves down anymore, ESPECIALLY with art. fuck outta here with that “i can’t even draw a circle” bullshit
Hey max, I just want you to know that this hit me hard and in the right moment, Ife this couple weeks has been a challenge and hearing all this gives me more motivation to get things done and work myself towards my goals
Max, I truly hope someone makes a docuseries about you one day because of shit like this. You have such a gift when it comes to reaching people in terms of entertaining them as well as creating content that can truly resonate with people whether that’s in terms of raw hype, bringing people in close and making them feel like it’s just the two of you, whatever the case may be in that moment, you are incredible. Shine on and much love.
This was the EXACT thing I didn't know I needed to say TODAY, YESTERDAY AND TO REMEDY THE BLUES IVE BEEN HAVING FOR WELL OVER A MONTH NOW!! Note: blue being part of clinical depression. So I'm very grateful for this video being translatable from fighting games to LIFE IN GENERAL. It really helped my state of mind by triggering the releases in my brain!! Thanks man!! GRATITUDE APLENTY
As an illustrator who constantly hears people talking about talent, this video is exactly my point. You wanna make nice drawings? You gotta invest a lot of fucking time during years, you gotta study theory, you gotta collect references and you gotta challenge yourself. I've seen a lot of people who just went and bought a drawing tablet, downloaded some good ass softwares, got expensive pens and markers and top quality paper and then they were disappointed when their first drawing turned out not like they expected. You gotta grind.
This is inspiring. I was just about to reroll my main weapon (Charge Blade) in MonHun because I feel Im not good enough after how long Ive been playing. But I'm going to keep at it because I love the weapon. Thanks Max.
Max is such a great communicator. I’ve never seen him live but I’d be very interested to see if he carries this integrity and charisma into a live situation.
nice speech dood, i agree to all of this, i too learned that a lot of what you said translates to real life, it started to kick in for me when i played through the dark souls games
Fighting game knowledge kind of does spill into real life. It's amazing how applicable the concepts are for actual martial arts / combat sports: Footsies, spacing, conditioning, yomi, neutral, combos... it's almost all there in competitive fighting. =)
The nature of talent is that it's, at best, a starting point. It's true that some folks can pick up a fighting game for the first time and already have a slightly better grasp on neutral than their friend, perhaps because their brain just so happens to work in the right way for it to make some sense. But without the hard work to refine it, it will never get better than that. Without the effort, the active work to learn, improve, and advance, talent will get you no further.
I love your vids man, I am not even a fighting game fan, but I listen to you talk and I know you are being 💯 percent real every time on every video. I am going through some difficult health issues right now, but something you said reminded me to to keep fighting for that, that I love. Thanks man, keep up the great job
This was probably my favorite video from max. This was better than alot of motivational speeches. Talking about the last dance and Michael Jordan to telling the truth that if u want to be really good at something you have to put the time in. That's it. No bullshit! Much Respect max.
Thank you max. I have a visual impairment that is taking my vision called retinitispigmentosa. Video games have always been a passion but it has become harder to play then over the years. You helped me realize that I can still play these games, I just need to be better at adapting. Thank you so much man I really needed to hear this today.
