'Tango and Juliet' Cessna 140 Crash 

Any info. on whether they were in the pattern/approach at Clark?

7 and 19. Wow.

With that info, I am scratching my head.....

All I can think of is that they sold the 120 and bought the 140 because it had a larger engine, probably a Continental 100HP rather than the original 85 HP. The might have thought the extra power would get them out of situations more easily. But more likely, the aircraft's climb rate at that density altitude just didn't out climb the downdraft of some high winds ... If I had to pull a number out of my butt, I'd guess that the climb rate of that aircraft in those conditions was maybe 300 fpm. I've been in many aircraft with a lot more power where full power wouldn't keep me at cruise speed at my altitude. I remember many years ago being on the south side of the San Gabriel Mountains in California in a Turbocharged C-210 and only being able to maintain 90 knots. A C-140 wouldn't be able to fly in that downdraft.

What was the METAR at the time of the crash?

I hope Captain Pete sees this one day when he is old enough to appreciate what strength and "manliness' it took to not edit out that spontaneous and raw display of emotion.

@@paulloveless9180 Few things require more strength than allowing others to see our pain at close range. Juan teaches two lessons here, only one of which is about Density Altitude. Blessings.

agreed... yeah... I think we all feel it

Absolutely.❤

Genuine man.

Agreed. I love his channel for this. I hope one day I bump into him at an air show. Seems like a great guy to chat with.

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@@user-wv2rd4ll4u That ain’t looking good. Are you in control of your account? Any logged in devices you’ve forgotten about?

@@foowashere This is an impersonator. Please Report him.

yeah I bet at 70000 ft asl there's like no air at all

Density altitude. B17 pilot told me their runway was 2 miles long in England. "On a warm day we used every inch of it" when fully loaded.

@@LuvBorderCollies and those planes had FOUR turbo-supercharged engines making LOTS of horsepower EACH!

They looked so totally happy.What a tragedy. Condolences to family and friends.

I flew to Williams and peach springs many times 172 2 people summer never had a problem 2 people 4 I would run less fuel never a problem 160 hp 172 R

@@cooperparts Id have to check my logbook for time of year but I recall being slightly nose high and barely stopping a slow descent. This went on for maybe 20 mins.

I flew the 180 hp Skyhawks up there. Like stepping in mashed potatoes.

Big Bear Lake on a hot summer day...

Pilot report mashed potatoes

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@@coldchickenwings9437 its a fake account, report the comments please

Are all the other tragedies less deserving of demonetization though?

How lovely for you to have met them. May I ask you (understandably Juan will be unable to answer this question as he has so many comments) I'm listening to all he is saying, but I'm not a pilot) and I'm wondering, would Tim have initially encountered turbulence unexpectedly which threw him off? And if this was the case - is there anything a pilot can do to get out of this first sign of a problem? I think what I'm asking also is, let's say he knew not to grip hard and pull back, even though it's human nature and obviously an adrenaline based reaction? If he didn't pull back and cause a stall, why is it so hard to recover control?

​@@Brooke52528 The NTSB have more facts than anyone, I think it's all speculation from everyone else. Best to wait for the full report from the NTSB. Tim was pretty experienced, as far as I know, so I would imagine he did the right things. Sometimes, there's no way out.

@@JamesGood Thanks James, for your reply. Appreciated. Yes, the NTSB findings will give the facts and not the speculation. Juan has speculated, based on his knowledge and the small bits of information obtainable thus far. We have to wait, and see.

glad u made it

Learing to fly in So. Cal , my instructor required a landing and takeoff at Big Bear as one of his real deal lessons. For some reason we ended up substituting 29 palms on a warm day.

@@charlesoneil8559 He understood about Big Bear on a warm day.

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One of the problems with "hard-knocks" training, learning how serious those chances are from actually taking them, is that some won't get out of it okay even the first time. It is their first serious experience, but also their last. It is so tragic that it makes the urgency that we hear and feel from Juan in this aftermath very important for young students and pilots, especially, to grasp. For them, I especially think that it is worth every last penny to go take a course with a highly experienced mountain-flying instructor in the summer, and in a normally aspirated airplane. Few things can scare someone to respect the limitations of their machine and themselves more than those types of practical experiences while still remaining in safe hands. A fundamental pilot safety skill is always imagining that _something_ is making the margins of safety less than what we perceive them to be, and feeling determined to find it before it finds us.

@@ReflectedMiles Totally agree . We had a wife and husband in NZ that did specialty training , flying in mountains. Unfortunately they went flying with their 2 kids in the back of the 172 and were slammed into the mountain , loss all 4 . And we can never forget what happen to Steve Fossett in a high performance aircraft in when we now know was a down draft . Interesting that I also was caught in a down draft on the last leg of my pilots test . That was after I checked the weather which had incoming clouds but no notam's . This was over western Kentucky and as it turned out was a frontal passage that had a bad down draft , in my case 1200 ft per min . I was below the clouds and 1500 AGL . I got on the horn to the ATC and had the wits to do a 180 and fly to my pre-planned alternate airport where I waited it out and called in to the FBO to advise all was well. That was in 1976 ! As a 5 time National Rifle Champion I've studied winds on low levels, and have a good understanding of micro changes in terrain that have big impacts on issues including flight ,, now I see more of that in the NZ landscape than the US , this is a hazardous area and is well known for wind dangers .

I did this also in North Caralina on a very hot summer day out of 3000 ft of grass in a C152 with me and friend in plane. I was positive we were going into the trees but just barely made it over..............NEVER AGAIN.

Say no early and often ...

@Molly Rae Do you know a CFI in Sedona? I’ve searched but don’t know a lot of folks in aviation so haven’t had much luck.

@Molly Rae Thanks. I did actually find an instructor in Cottonwood, so was just wondering. KSEZ probably not ideal for a beginner like me anyway.

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Flying into Phoenix is always a rollercoaster once you come up on the mountains to the east.

Indeed. A flight in or out of KTUS is a turbulent experience.

Reno, Nevada - Even for Boeing 737's - turbulent as Hell as well.

@ Sure is. My home now.

@@user-wv2rd4ll4u Huh? (Head scratch)

It is not Juan. A different account that looks the same. Report it to YT to remove.

@@EOTBuk Thought he got hacked. You know your a hit on RU-vid when you have troglodytes like that making fake accounts to look like you.

@@On-Our-Radar-24News Yeah thankfully not hacked, but that is what I thought initially. Shame the lowlife thought it was a good idea on this tragic event! I have reported all the posts to YT as it appears the same has happened on several other posts.

@@EOTBuk Ya,truly sad they picked this particular post to be a subhuman.

Do not be deceived by this man, he did not know them. He doesn't deserve anything related to the Gills

Really? Is it that common? I guess when it's a small airplane crash not many people hear about it.

@@MeneTekelUpharsin It happens. I worked in air medical for 30 years.

Jim, Good meeting you there that day too.

Totally agree....The accident report stated that after turning left to base, their groundspeed had slowed to 42 knots. It also stated that the twilight conditions made it hard to recognize the horizon. I think Tim, while keeping an eye on the runway, just got nose high, too slow, and stalled. Obviously, the altitude and possibility of wind gusts didn't help. The only good thing was, it was all over in a matter of seconds.

​@@nealbraatz3911 You don't know that. Could have suffered in paralyzed agony for hours. Shut up.

@@User0000000000000004 I'm sure any family or friends of this couple, who read your comment, will be comforted by your scenario of their loved one's final moments as opposed to mine. Good job Marty!

@@nealbraatz3911 If they just delayed the flight till the morning likely be still making great aviation videos.

Thank you for your comments. Perfectly stated. I have time in gyroplanes and helicopters. The last time I flew a helicopter the CFI said I approach like a Pitts Special. Always trying to maintain extra airspeed and energy even when I didn't have too. Hard habits to break.