You need to talk about the “yeah she’s popular but she’s not bringing anything to the artistic and cultural scene so she should not be considered an artist but a music-making corporation” thing that indie pretentious c-lister art bros keep throwing around because I’m losing my mind
The most chronically online thing about this whole discussion for me is how people are making it a feminist issue and how taylor isn't a "girl's girl" for doing this. Just a theory but I highly doubt people would say anything remotely similar if it were drake and kendrick battling it out for number 1. In fact I think people would encourage it.
@@byyouthgonewild what in gods name, this is the craziest neoliberal feminism i’ve ever seen in my life. “ruthless capitalism good cus a woman did it” “women are expected not to exploit and manipulate” like what 😭
@@byyouthgonewild which is sexist at its root. and Taylor is kind, as far as I can see supportive and collaborative. Now, if people continued to diss Taylor for not caring about the environment -- bring it on. I will join in with that critique.
Still waiting for red lipstick line 😂 i would buying her skincare if she sold product. Taylor face always maintenance great condition after almost 20 years since her debut at 16.
As Taylor said it herself “it’s all just fucking impossible”. If she doesn’t chase the charts people will call her a flop, if she does people will call her a fraud who wants the success to herself. At this point she might as well do whatever she wants and claim the world as her own, as she should
This! At the end of the day, it is a business and Taylor is doing what she can to promote her product to the world. Then again, Taylor doesn’t have to do much because swifties are very powerful lmao
EXACTLY!!!!! The UK chart site literally released the numbers proving this. There was never any shot of Charli debuting at number 1 that week. Her fans just made up a lie and ran with it.
@@user-tp6ho4un2ci am in a swiftie biased comment sections and while i am not a swiftie i am aware of her influence and popularity which she worked hard for and therefor wont discredit her but to comment this is not true - there is several updates during tracking weeks. one in particular that is severly telling is called the 'mid tracking week' which shows the estimated units that have been sold at that moment before the tracking week ends. this gives labels/artists the opportunities to try new strategies like a new vinyl, signed copies or other eligable album units to increase it. when the brat release week was happening and this mid week update was released by the UK chart, taylor nation announced the 2 new album editions with a live version / voice memo of a album track, specifically ONLY available to the UK (which proves that they were specifically targeting the tracking week for that region) due to the fact that updated numbers were showing that the poet album was not gonna remain #1 and be passed by BRAT. taylor wanted another week at #1, which fans believe is for a record of an album remaining for a 'insert numbers' weeks at the 1 spot. it was intentional, but not for the reasons charli fans believe. i do think it wasn't necessary, as taylor would easily return to number 1 the week after. the her being in UK and thats why she wanted the top spot that week is a reach tho @swiftologist
Terminally online people are convinced that their favorites are way more popular than they are. Even Chappell Roan is now outselling Charli in the UK 😂
@@tinyrat275 They might have well intentions, but the quality and content isn't there. Remember, they're selling a product, it's not about what they want, it about what the public/masses wants!
No one cares that it’s wanting chart success. It’s deliberately releasing new versions every week to keep artists away from getting to #1. She did it to Billie and she did it to Charli. It’s the fact that Taylor had her moment and was extremely successful for months already but she just couldn’t let someone else have theirs at the top of the charts. It’s weird how everyone defends that when it’s just not a good look.
all i will say is if a male artist did this nobody would bat an eye. no she isnt "blocking" other artists on purpose shes just doing her job and staying on top. and if a few live performances, voice memos and acoustic versions can block your album from the top spot ive gotten some news for you. she just wants to do well on the charts.
the problem is nobody else is doing this except her... can't excuse it with the "if she were a man" tidbit if men aren't and haven't done this before to the extreme extent that she's doing it - what're we at now like 66 variants? It's ridiculous
@@MccKaay nobody else is just a ridiculous sentiment. How many tiktok/sped up/slowed down versions are there of songs? How many remixes of songs are bundled with the single itself? Remember the sheer amount of versions of Havana by Camilla Cabello there were? You only notice the releases because Taylor Swift is the biggest artist. Saying "no one else" is doing this is factually incorrect.
@@bubblegumnnebula Except you're talking about single songs - TTPD variants are the entire album, I think we're now up to 72 with the variants released in the past couple days after the Vienna shows were cancelled due to you know what. Which is quite the show of goodwill towards her fans (/s obviously).
I have heard Taylor called a fake feminist because she did not let Billie and Charlie win. Since when did feminism in competitive arenas mean you don't try to compete?
A little while back I saw another YT video that even accused her of blocking Sabrina. Sabrina, her opening act for part of her huge Eras tour, whom Taylor has been so supportive of?? But the whole vibe of that clip was "Taylor will only be nice to other female performers as long as they're not a threat." 🙄🙄
@@elizabethkurth2069 Zach says so, but it doesn't make it a fact. Taylor giving her blessing to smaller artists might actually show that she does try to give a helping hand to those who need it. If that hasn't translated to success for some, it's not on Taylor, nor does it necessarily mean she's only nice to those who can't match or surpass her.
Exactly. And saying that women have to share their success to be feminist is actually sexist, ironically. Because we don't hold male artists to the same standard. They are allowed to be successful with no strings attached!
@@britneyfan9270 you pretending she's the only rich person in that room that can pay for a grammy is hilarious. are you saying the other music companies aren't trying hard enough? if all they care about is money literally anyone would be able to get a grammy... yet....
@@britneyfan9270 Taylor Swift didn’t buy her Grammys. The awards are decided by over 12,000 industry professionals who vote independently, just like the Oscars, where over 10,000 industry pros vote. Suggesting she paid off thousands of experts is just ridiculous and shows a complete lack of understanding of how things work. It’s easier to spread baseless rumors than to accept that she earned them.
no when people were saying she was "chart-blocking" billie i was like uhmmm you're either number one or not, if you can get to #1 you're going to try and stay there and i dont see why that's so suprising
also billie had a 10 song album and taylor had a 16 (31) song album. more songs means more streams. releasing a ten song album isn’t going to land you at number 1 no matter how good you are
The thing is Billie said she didn’t care about charts. Then she went on to release different versions as well. Slow down version, sped up version and I don’t know what else. So it was a fair battle. Yet everyone ignores that and says Taylor blocked Billie.
stan of both billie and taylor here! i just don’t understand why fans need to get mad when another artist is successful!!!! yeah i personally would’ve loved for billies album to reach no. 1, especially since it was her best selling album ever, but at no point am i going to deny that ttpd charted insanely fucking well. fans need to be proud of their artists success, whether or not the numbers show that they were the ‘best’ in the entire industry. just enjoy what you enjoy. it’s not that deep.
i keep seeing men in billboard's comments whining about taylor's chart success and saying she needs to give smaller artists a chance.. as if she controls the charts herself. great video im going to keep watching now
@@bastetowl3258It’s not really an issue though, it’s just a job that they have to follow. Their record labels want their artists to climb the charts as much as possible, if they don’t live up to their record label’s expectations then they are dropped. Simple as. Climbing the charts bring money, fame, and therefore more money. That is also money for the record label and money for the record label to pay their employers etc. That is how jobs work, you do things to bring as much income as humanly possible to help pay employees, and have enough money for yourself to simply get by and enough for luxuries as well. No disrespect to you but the thing is, the people we say the things that you say would do the exact same thing as these artists and their record labels do if you were in that position, you just say you don’t like it because you are currently not in that position. I don’t mean that in a way to call you out at all, i’m just trying to say that it’s everyone as well. It’s natural to think that way, it comes from a form of jealousy almost, even if you are not jealous you are still envious and that is natural. Again, if you were in the position those artists and record labels were in, you would encourage that behaviour and do it yourself to bring in as much money as possible. They have salaries they need to provide to employees, not only do they need to meet that amount of money to get enough to actually pay out, they need enough for themselves to.
One thing I find really ironic is people will say that Taylor Swift diesn't have any impact but then literally every hit tweet of theirs is related to her. I don't find any Charlie, Billie, chapell and sometimes even Sabrina related tweets without Taylor Swift being mentioned. Hell, today somebody was comparing Addison rae's new song to Taylor and saying Addison is makes better music than taylor. I mean what are we even supposed to say to that? 😂 All this just proves that she is the benchmark from where everyone is compared and ironically makes even more ubiquitous.
Actually yeah, i was watching Faouzia's music video on "Puppet" and the first comment on there is "Taylor Swift could never". I was like: meh? What are you on about? They're like.. different? I hate that cause it makes me not want to listen to a song even though I know that this is not an artist doing but like.. people can be weird
I know exactly what you mean, I like billie and Charlie's music but now I kind of have a bad impression on them because theres this narrative that they're victims of Taylor
It boils down to someone on a winning streak. No normal person is willingly going to say "I've had x amount of wins now, time to let others have a turn!" It's not "cheating" to use very obvious and allowed tactics to maintain a winning streak
Super agree. I just don't think artists are required to be the defender of other people's careers. You just can't. If it were me in her place and I just stopped trying to be #1 rather than falling out of the top spot organically, I'd always be wondering what I could have done if I had actually gone all in. There is no reason to not try to be the best. It would be one thing if she was trash talking these other artists or trying to bring them down. She's not. She's bringing her A-game and so are they.
Exactly. All I can think of when I hear all these accusations is "Even if it's true, that just means that it's a cutthroat industry & Taylor understands how it all works. Don't be mad because she knows how to play the game & you don't."
Yes! Imagine a sports person or team if they are winning they are going to keep trying at winning and it just means the other teams or people have to get better to beat them and if they beat them honestly it makes their victory even sweeter. Could you imagine winning the race but knowing you only won because the person on the winning streak let you 😅 you would be forever trying to prove you actually could do it all along, but wouldn't really know if you can
How can they be mad? Just admit you had no chance against Taylor , be humble, move on with your head high. But it's "brat summer". An excuse to act like brats basically.
They are all cut throat at Taylor. With comments like that Billie surely wasnt expecting Taylor to just sit back. Cmon billie. In my opinion, they calculated the album realse and the comments said hoping Taylor isn't occupying the entire music industry, even yes beyonce, so they can get get their turn. Oh but yeah they don't care for that 🙄
I think people don’t grasp that it’s not enough to be the coolest, cutting edge, hippest thing if you want to be the biggest in the world. You need to also appeal to children, their parents, and their grandparents.
You described it perfectly. Taylor has mass appeal that very few other artists have, doesn’t necessarily make her better or worse, but it is what makes her as successful and huge as she is.
I don't disagree with you, but to appeal that broadly is going to put a severe limitation on your ability to be creative and forward thinking. In all honesty, quite a number of people who haven't drunk the Swift Kool-Aid think that Swift the brand swallowed Swift the artist sometime ago.
@@trashpacker4500 When you do that, though, you put a damper on your ability to be experimental and take risks. To appeal that broadly you have to sacrifice some creativity.
They’re acting like other artists don’t also try to push their own music to get number 1. All the artists want to be successful. The reason they hate on Taylor specifically for doing it is cause it actually works for her
Are you really that dense? She releases variants of the same song over & over so she stays at the top. That's manipulating 101. I'm not joking about this, just go back & look at every time an artist she has had issues with releases an album or song she will release something shortly after. It's hilarious that an almost middle aged women is so intimidated by someone like Billie Ellish who has a few screws loose in her head as well.
@@daddynanners3944 many artists do that. They all release slowed up and sped up versions of the same song. But you only see taylor at the top because people care about her variants more than the other artists album. If people stopped streaming or buying her million variants she'd stop releasing them but that's not what's happening
@@sagelabyrinth8780 Exactly, I feel like Taylor does not owe anyone anything and she should be allowed to play the game like everyone else. At the end of the day if she would’ve not released the album variants and Billie and Charli would’ve gotten number 1 she would’ve still returned to number 1 the following week.
I'm not so sure that an artist's legacy and cultural impact, in any creative field, is directly proportional to their peak popularity or the magnitude of their commercial success. It's impossible to predict how anyone's work, it's influence, or their image will be interpreted decades into the future. And those interpretations will keep shifting in relation to the culture that's dominant at the time. Taylor will be remembered as a generational icon, for sure. But for what, and whether that's what she hopes to be remembered for, is hard to say. Besides, I don't think most music listeners, outside of stan communities, make a habit out of looking up chart statistics. It's just something labels and artists care about that stans have now made it their business to care about because of their heightened parasocial obsession with their faves. I'd much rather stans as a whole diverted their energy towards fighting for a more equitable industry that would make it possible for all capable and talented artists to make a decent living off their art instead of championing and glorifying winning at capitalism. Capitalism ensures only those at the top keep staying at the top. That's never good for society or culture or creativity in the grander scheme of things, no matter how much anyone tries to tell you it is.
6:19 another example of culturally impactful but not commercially successful is Britney's Blackout. It wasn't that big when it came out and yet, it predicted the EDM boom and influenced the hyperpop artists that followed in the years to come.
Yes! Good example. And like, it's fine to be that artist. Not everyone can be Taylor. Just aim to be the best version of whatever your particular niche is (not that Britney is some niche artist)
Also Charlie was literally #3 how tf her fans think she got blocked also Ariana dropped 2 EP of remixes and 27 versions of yes and and Charlie have 16 vinyl and 3 deluxes but no one talk about it cause they flop
OH MY GOD QUITE LITERALLY. PEOPLE ARE LIKE "LETS ONLY ALLOW 3 SONGS PER ALBUM ON CHARTS... THATS NOT HOW IT WORKS? stay mad children, you have lots to learn. love youuuuuuuuuuu xx
It’s not Sunday until Swiftologist drops! I’ve been waiting for this one. I especially can’t stand the “omg Taylor is blocking another artist” discourse.
I've been an avid chart watcher ever since I was a kid. I guess you could call it my autistic special interest (yes, I'm on the spectrum). Some people love keeping track of sportsball statistics, I love keeping track of Billboard chart statistics. Over the years, I've learned that Billboard, while an overall reliable metric, isn't a flawless representation of a single's popularity. Their data in the mid to late 90s is just flat-out unreliable because of their stupid rule requiring that singles had to have actual physical single releases in order to qualify to chart on the Hot 100. During the 90s, record labels - especially for a lot of alternative rock acts - started eschewing this practice to push more album sales. This is why "Don't Speak" by No Doubt never charted at all despite it being their most popular song that peaked at #1 on the airplay chart. This is why NSYNC only had two #1 singles, why Backstreet Boys had none, and Britney only had 1 during her initial peak years. And speaking of Britney Spears, this is where it gets interesting. Despite being the biggest pop star of her time, Britney Spears only has four #1 hits: "Baby One More Time" (1999), "Womanizer" (2008), "3" (2009), and "Hold It Against Me" (2011). And she only has 13 top ten hits overall on the Billboard Hot 100. That's right. Despite being the defining pop star of the 2000s, despite having a ton of hits to her name, you wouldn't know just by looking up her Billboard Hot 100 chart stats. "This makes no sense," I hear you say. Well, there's a reason: Music industry politics. So backing up a little bit: Britney's debut 1998 single "Baby One More Time" was a certified smash, peaking at #1 for two weeks. She would go on to have two more top ten hits over the next year with "(You Drive Me) Crazy" and "Oops... I Did It Again". Several of her singles made the top 20, but with how big those first two albums were, you'd be surprised to know that the singles themselves didn't chart higher. "Oops... I Did It Again" only peaked at #9. Literally, how? Well, the reason was because Jive Records (her record label) pulled the single from store shelves in order to drive album sales. So that's partially the reason why Britney's singles at the time charted lower than they should have. They did that with a lot of their artists. But after that is when it gets a bit more messy. In 2001, Britney was getting ready to start her third concert tour in support of her third album "Britney", and Jive Records decided to partner with Pepsi to sponsor the tour instead of Clear Channel - which had previously sponsored Britney's last two tours. This decision would bite Britney in the ass. Clear Channel was the company that owned most of the radio stations at the time. And they were pissed that Britney's team went with Pepsi instead of them. It infuriated them so much that they more-or-less blacklisted Britney's music from all of the radio stations they owned. The charts were primarily influenced by radio play back then (by this point, the Billboard rule about physical singles was removed), so if the company that owns the majority of radio stations in the country suddenly decides that they don't want you played, then that severely impacts your chart performance. Even if you otherwise have the biggest song in the country and you're dominating TRL. So some of Britney's most legendary hits from that era ended up underperforming hard, like the album's lead single "I'm a Slave 4 U", which only peaked at #27. Several of the singles from that album never charted or only peaked near the bottom of the chart. "Overprotected" is considered a Britney classic, but it only peaked at #86. And it's not like the album flopped or that these songs weren't popular. Britney was still selling albums, she was still selling out stadiums, she was still dominating TRL, she was still dominating the public conversation. But none of that is reflected on the charts. She sold albums, but the Clear Channel blacklisting and Jive Records' priority on pushing album sales over physical single sales ended up costing Britney more charting hits than she otherwise would have had. The Clear Channel ban wasn't lifted until 2004, when her single "Toxic" started getting so much buzz and popularity that they were basically forced to start letting radio stations play the song. But even then, "Toxic" only peaked at #9. How crazy is that? "Toxic" was one of the biggest songs of that year, and it's still to this day regarded as one of Britney's signature songs. But it barely cracked the top 10. And it took Britney until 2008 to finally score her second #1 hit with "Womanizer". She would score two more over the next couple years with "3" and "Hold It Against Me" (two songs that let's be frank, you never hear anyone talk about anymore). This just goes to show you that chart data doesn't always determine just how popular an artist is.
Technically she has 5 with S&M remix but as a Britney stan i must be real and say it would hit 1 with only Rihanna too since she was huuuge at the time and it didnt even have a music video with her.
I can't believe the conversation is: she's blocking my fave, instead of being: my fave is being blocked by 3 voice memos. I think stans need to stop being so angry at taylor, she's mostly there because her fanbase is loyal af and buy what she has to sell, meanwhile stans complain and don't support the sales of their faves, at all.
i dont think charts matter (other then the publicity) because an album sells how its going to sell unless it gets overshadowed by something else like another album. Taylor releasing variants will NOT overshadow other albums. Charts are just for show and for fun. And if taylor wants to embrace that then good for her. Also EVERYBODY releases "variants" or "deluxes" or "remixes" its just the way of the game! I'm not a huge taylor swift fan anymore but I think that this cancelling is stupid.
Taylor's secret sauce is that she pays attention to what the fans want and mixes it with what she wants. Other artists do what they want and almost ignore what made them popular in the first place... Hence, they don't sell as much. Artists need to put on their business hats AS WELL as their creative hats. Taylor wears THE CROWN in this aspect. 👑👑👑👑👑
I love that you are pointing out the difference between flash-in-the-pan trendy music and how TTPD has a lot more substance. I feel like such a nerdy academia girlie.
I'm so sick of the "Taylor needs to let other artists shine!" Girl this is a BUSINESS not a CHARITY The world is gonna continue no matter if ur dropping a new album. It sucks yes but you can't expect people to revolve around you
Why do people want the number one artist in the world to stop trying to stay there? It feels like you’re allowed to be the best, but once you’ve hit that mark, then you have to let other people take their turn? Absolutely not.
4.5 million people have attended the eras tour and thousands of people are crowding outside the stadium. And they are more countries which she didn't go to (for ex: india where a lot of people love and listen to taylor) . Still people are questioning her number thinking she's paying for her streams.
It’s gonna be hilarious in 40 years when people are like.. music is so fake and shitty these days and how dare you compare your favorite artist to Taylor Swift.
Exactly 😂! It’s like how the Beatles were ridiculed in their time and are now seen as untouchable legends. How dare you compare your favorite artist to Taylor Swift, who people created a game after called 'Is It Taylor Swift or Shakespeare?' That might seem odd now, but perspectives shift over time. What’s dismissed today could be celebrated as groundbreaking in the future.
Why do people only care about charts now? I thought we had a moment where we collectively decided that the charts were not an arbiter of good music. I think that this is now just taylor hateration.
Such an amazing commentary. Also, do people not realize it’s the music INDUSTRY, it’s a business! Like, the chart battle with Taylor and Billie raised Billie’s sales between 70-90k more than initial predictions. Sza blocked Midnights for many weeks too, and both her and Taylor wanted the spot and tried to get it, and it was nothing personal between them, it really is just healthy competition
@@thesceptikal2102 I personally have SZA's Ctrl and SOS on vinyl and she is one of my favourite artists, but Taylor is more popular and that does not give you a reason to hate on her, hating on what is popular does not make you cool or different, grow up, stop with the hate, go see a psychologist and stop comparing Queens
The "Taylor needs to give smaller artists a chance" is wild because... not only does she not need to do that but she does? Do you really think Gracie Sabrina and even Olivia to an extent were not helped by Taylor??
@@Phoenix-kr5ylnot sure if when you used the word "case" you were implying there was a lawsuit, but this is just a reminder to everyone that there was no lawsuit with Cruel Summer and Deja Vu. The most we know about this situation is this quote by Jack Antonoff, who co-wrote/produced Cruel Summer: "I had never met [Olivia] and I had never been in a room with her. So it's interesting... because another song on that album, that was an interpolation of [the Antonoff co-written Swift song] 'New Year's Day'. But yeah, it came through the channels that the bit on 'Deja Vu' was inspired by that bridge and we were going to be credited, and I thought that was really cool."
@@cardiganweather Nono, I was not implying that. I don’t know if I made a mistake by calling it a “case”, but I’m Italian and English is not my first language. So please, be nice with me 😞😂
@@Phoenix-kr5yl I don't think using the word "case" was a mistake! You used it correctly. It tends to have a legal connotation though, and I frequently see people incorrectly state that there was a lawsuit between Taylor and Olivia. Sorry for the assumption!
I mean...I don't care, it's kind of annoying but... there's an obvious negative bias from other fan bases at play. Taylor does a lot of fan service, most faves are not like that and the stans are mad at that. Instead of coming for their faves for teasing visuals they'll never get...
I’m not a Charli XCX hater by any means but the “Brat” meme is significantly bigger than the album actually is in reality. None of the Brat social media hype is translating to ticket sales, album sales or high streaming numbers.
This is just not true, the Brat album is Charli’s most successful on streaming to date, she currently has four songs in the top 50 on Spotify US. The social media hype is certainly translating to real success for the album. Her arena tour with Troye is selling well contrary to early reports of low sales.
@@jauregukulele Streaming success is not the same as actual album sales. Not by a long shot. Let's not pretend like they have the same prestige, you can't make a living as a musician on streams alone.
*HATS OFF* to you zach I've *NEVER* seen a person work soo much and study soo much for a yt video and ik only *The Swiftologist* can do it and slay the house down, BOOTS!
i think framing it as “is taylor cheating the charts” isn’t quite accurate… the question is whether we want to normalize artists selling ten versions of the same album as a strategy for charting or if we should collectively decide that that’s wasteful/greedy and shouldn’t become an industry norm. ten years ago, taylor released all of the voice memos for 1989 (plus three bonus tracks!) in one deluxe version, now she’s releasing them all individually, behind a paywall. i think it’s a totally valid critique to say that it’s not a great look to milk your fans for a bunch of album versions just because you know they’ll pay. just because she can doesn’t mean she should. to me, it seems like taylor is treating her fanbase as a cash cow as opposed to earnestly wanting to give them new music or content, which i don’t think we should normalize.
That's on the music industry/billboard to fix. I think an artist should be able to come out with only a certain number of variants or deluxe options that count (maybe like 2 or 3). But until the industry changes that, every artist is in their right to play the game. But like the video says the labels will find another way to work the system until billboard addresses that new strategy...just a vicious circle😂😂
Music industry is a BUSINESS, NOT A CHARITY WORK. They don't get it. Also thank you for mentioning about the topics like how the charts work, popularity and building a legacy. Always great content Zach. Really appreciate it.
So many valid observations but, although I like TTPD enough, I’ll be shocked if it wins AOTY because of the mixed critical response/how uneven it is. Then again, I didn’t expect Midnights to get it! Other three are COMPLETELY undeniable, however. No notes.
Ok so I'm not from usa I'm asian and midnights songs are like crazy when it released in my country (like YOYOK, bejeweled, anti hero) so I'm not surprised it did especially when anti hero was that big But either way I'll be shocked if TTPD won too
To be fair, Midnights’ singles achieved more cultural penetration; Anti-Hero in particular was massive, not just among Swifties but among everyone. I don’t think we can say the same about Fortnight, for example.
Telling Taylor to stop trying to stay at number 1 on the charts is like telling a reigning olympic gold medalist to stop trying and give their medal to someone else 😭
No it’s not. The Olympics, competitive sports, are about being the best, fastest, most technical athlete/team. It’s literally about placing in the top 3 for a medal and the glory. It’s purely based on completion. Music, is art. Yes, it’s a business and commercial success is important, however, the super ultra hyper capitalistic tactics that Taylor continues to do with the charts plays a role in keeping other artists out of the top spots, keeping their art from that glory as well. Notice how I said “plays a role” as it’s not entirely Taylor’s fault. But strategically waiting until your peers release their albums or singles to release limited edition and other versions of an album on/around their release dates is just overkill. Lastly, I’ll say I’m a Swiftie and I flew from the US to see her perform in Germany. But I’m not an apologizer of her when it comes to this topic. Like when is enough enough. She’s already “won”.
@@QueenSis13 you said it yourself. She’s already won. Why stop wining? That’s the same mindset most competitive people have, music or otherwise. For example, I’m a theater kid. If I got the lead role one year, why should I not try and go for the lead next year? Whether for fun or not.
@@TheUltimateGeek-cy8gsOk now imagine you’re trying to get the lead role of the play - you’re good, but not the best. So to up your chances, you bring goodie bags for all of the judges filled with their favorite things with promises of more. So instead of the most deserving & skilled audition winning the role, you get it because you manipulated outside factors. Now imagine instead of judges, it’s a cult-like fanbase you’ve cultivated that you KNOW will purchase the same album over and over. It’s not a 1 to 1 example, but I believe that the sentiment is the same. Other artists should not be considered less deserving of charting success just because they do not abuse consumerist cultures and the dedication of their fans. A cult is willing to do anything to get their cult leader to #1 - she knows this!!!
Taylor’s impact has become so interesting recently. As the general public grows to disdain her more and more there’s a bigger divide between fans and not fans than probably ever in her career. I think both sides are somewhat right in this situation, yes TTPD didnt make a cultural impact on the world but it didn’t need to because her fan base is so large it basically acts like a secondary general public on its own. It’ll be fascinating what people in the future think of this, is being the default number 1 to a great enough group of people really an indication of the musical landscape?
People just like to dunk on Taylor for having clear goals. It's stupid. She is working on her legacy, as you said, Zach. She's not competing with Sabrina Carpenter, ffs.
I for one am happy to be growing up in the Taylor Swift era of the 21st century. I know one day the bubble will burst or she’ll retire or something, and I’ll look back fondly on my years as a young adult and think “aah, those were the days”
I find the multiple versions of albums thing from all artists to be a bit tiresome, but then I’m not being forced to buy them, and nor are any of the people who are buying them for enjoyment. It’s all just market forces and Taylor is a juggernaut 🚀
The moment youve said most of you are unsubscribed, i just subscribed cause ive watched your recent videos and honestly youre the most sane swiftie in this platform because oh boy, as a swiftie myself its been rough 2 years post midnights for me around stan tw*ts (i said it) I even deleted Instagram and tiktok cause i am tired of this bullcrap. Your videos and analysis are amazing btw and well constructed ❤️🥰
What p*sees me off is that TS and this album in particular should not even have to be defended. She’s extremely talented by ANY measure and TTPD is a masterpiece.
Say it again!! Sometimes I'm genuinely baffled by the "TTPD is objectively bad" criticisms. Maybe its content is just off-putting for first-time listeners (aka haters) who will only listen once without digesting anything? It's an interesting thing to puzzle out. Once you sit with it, the layers continually reveal itself and it's just absolutely fascinating how the album interacts with all that Taylor is, both as a songwriter and a cultural figure. I feel like the haters just see the lines where Taylor is obviously joking, like "touch me while your bros play GTA" and discredit TTPD as a songwriting masterpiece. They can't comprehend that Taylor can make a joke because they're so deep in their hate
@@shar3859 It's not off putting just for the haters though, It's for a lot of people. It was for me for example at first but now I love it. It's the narcotics.
music industry is not a charity or donation campaign, in this convo taylor wants that #1 on chart and she get it bcs she give her all and swifties will eat it up, it's not her fault that she can sell 💁
“taylor should let other artist shine too” well what about you ask those artist to release more versions or variants? y'all keep talking this that but you're not even bother spending a coin to purchase their music, if they can't sell then that's their problems not taylor.
I think people fail to realize how curated their social media environments are as well. If Brat is "everywhere" in your social media environment, it is not necessarily the same for everyone else. I have a TON of Taylor content on my TikTok/X but I maybe see two or three Charli items here and there. If you are engaging with every Charli video (watching, liking, commenting) your algorithm is going to keep putting it in front of you, so you're going to get the sense that it's inescapable and really, really popular. It may not be as big as you think it is, though.
I also find it interesting how the twitter stans will celebrate if Taylor blocks an artist that is not their fave. selective outrage at its best - she is supposed to step aside for THEIR girl, but blocking other artists they perceive they're in direct competition with is fine.
If you want your fave to go #1 then WORK FOR IT!! Stream it. Buy the digitals. Buy the vinyls. Sitting in your bedroom crying about Taylor ain’t gonna do nothing. Taylor put so many efforts to get where she is today. Being at the top of each and every metric isn’t that easy. It took years and years of putting out GOOD music. Your faves have to do the same too, if they’re really ambitious.
As someone who has both Michael Jackson and Taylor Swift as her favorite artists and genuinely cannot choose between them, I'd say Michael's fans only get so butt-hurt about Taylor's success for three reasons: 1 - Some of them are old and fell victim to "Everything was better during MY teenage/young-adult years, kids these day only like trash" 2 - Some of them are sexist and cannot stand the fact that Michael's "sucessor for the crown" (for lack of a better term) is a woman that "just writes about break ups." 3 - A LOT of them (including me if I'm gonna be 100% honest) are very defensive over anything related to Michael because he was exploited from basically the moment his dad realize he could sing and because, ironically enough, before his retirement and tragic death right as his final tour was about to happen, he was being in treated the same way Taylor is now - nothing he did was considered "genuine", and he was constantly labeled as overrrated, a manipulative try-hard, and was MOCKED for calling himself the King of Pop. Now that he is gone people see how absurd and ridiculous that was. I suspect that once Taylor stops touring and releasing music, the discourse about her "cheating the system" will transform into praise for "her relentless drive and passion for the craft from a mastermind", much like Michael's "desperate attempts to stay relevant" were understood as "admirable, unwavering work ethic from a genius" once he was gone. People value an artist a lot more once their art goes from "thing we get every few years" to "limited supply that we are never getting more of." Michael was the biggest star ever... from the 80s up to 1993 (with some big moments after it) when the culture was different, and the very way of buying music was different. Taylor was born literally one year after "The year of Michael", and he is 30+ years older than her. He had already passed away when Taylor became THE popstar of the decade. Michael Mania and The Eras Tour are nearly four decades apart. His legacy is already pretty much set in stone, while Taylor's is still being built due to her still being active in the business. We might as well be talking about two different universes at this point. We will never know who would have been the bigger of the two if they had been making music at the same time, for the same people, and honestly we don't need to know. They both did revolutionary things. They're both in a category of their own. He was the king then, she is the queen now. And sure, like any ambitious artist, Michael wanted to be the biggest star the world had ever seen, and to remain on that spot forever. But even with his actual competitors at the time, like Prince, he always made his respect for their craft very clear. He praised younger artists like Britney Spears, Beyonce and his own sister Janet Jackson for their hard work all the time. He was constantly fighting to be in control of his own career and to have the final say on what could or could not be done with his music, and strongly believed every artist should do the same. He would NOT scoff at Taylor's success like some bitter stans do. Regardless of if he'd enjoy her music or not, he'd be impressed by The Eras Tour, respect the very concept of Taylor's Versions, and agree that Taylor is a force to be reckoned with.
@@tatanooki you said it yourself wouldn’t be the first time unfortunately, but in all seriousness and honesty Taylor somehow has and created out of thin air considering there’s no more monoculture anymore the last version of such a phenomenon with her. Society and culture has changed so much and too much already its a miracle it happened with her considering there’s been so few like her till now I don’t think it can happen again at this point or it would take a very long time there was somewhat of a proximity before with Elvis, the Beatles, MJ, Madonna and I think it dies with Taylor tbh
I think Michael would have been extremely supportive of the Taylor's version project and would love to see that there has been a lot of change in how record deals and masters agreements are handled. I think a lot of people forget that in Michael's era that level of exploitation of artists in the industry was considered incredibly commonplace and it happened to so many other artists through the 80s', 90s and 00s, from Mariah Carey to Prince to Britney Spears. Taylor was just among the only artists to actually take a stand in the late 2010s and try to do something about it. Even if one does not like her music, that has to be commended because so many up and coming female stars like Olivia have directly gone on record and stated that the sale of Taylor's masters out from under her caused them to be extremely cautious about what deals they sign and so forth.
I find it weird that the people saying "charts dont matter" are actively playing the charts game. Like billie....u obviously care. Brat is a good album but it is NOT ground breaking. Its a fun moment. The commentary on if TTPD has made a big impact is an interesting one in itself. I honestly feel like if The Eras Tour wasn't going on it wouldn't have had its stay power. Her changing the songs in that part of the eras tour also helped bring in the streams and keep the interest. Also taylors BEEN doing these marketing tactics SINCE she first started. Always having little extras and add ons for fans if they wanted. Shes just elevated that along with her career and the music industry. Ppl rlly do need to calm down.
@@thesceptikal2102 does everything need to be some big creatively innovating breakthrough? Can't something just be a good album that resonates with a large number of people?
@@thesceptikal2102 zero substance? Horrible lyrics? Um no. You can not like it for whatever reasons but dont just lie about it. Your comment comes off as if you've never even listened to the album.
Let's be honest, all this is just another case of the internet making an issue out of nothing simply because they're bored and wanna tear someone down 🤷🏾♂️
It's clear that the type of person who loves everything about Taylor Swift is the type of person who enjoys these competitive tactics. For some people this is off-putting and that's fine too. I really love Taylor's music but this chart approach hinders me from being fully invested in her and that's okay. I know that a lot of artists in Taylor's position wouldn't have cared to maintain number 1 during the Brat release... it was a choice that she made, and it either sits well with you or it doesn't. Both feelings are valid.
Eeeh, all the comments and this video literally tries to explain why what you are saying is based on wrong foundation. The point is, it was not some personal attack on Charlie XCX (who still wouldn't be number 1, even if Taylor Swift didn't release anything). Or anyone else really . Taylor Swift is competitive and was on streak. If for some reason someone doesn't like that, sure. But it doesn't make people morally superior or something. "It's clear that the type of person who..." I think you make too many assumptions for people here. I don't know anyone who loves everything about someone, not evening their own dog (but it's close). Most people are just indifferent and don't see the big deal. Also, yes. Feelings are valid, but our reasonings for said feelings are not always valid. That's why we need to search why we feel a certain way.
Billie and Charli, (while not directly related to this drama: Dua, Beyonce can be added to this point) all announced their release date of their new albums after TTPD. They all knew it was coming out on 19 April. Like any savvy business person would know, why would you release your best product right near your biggest competitor. They all had time reevaluate their release strategies and decided to execute. Instead we have ego. Billie knew it was a selling point for her to lean into any Taylor Swift backlash. With regards to Charli, I personally think the media/fans are to blame about the "Cheating the Charts" saga. I'd agree, anyone talking about "Brat girl summer" would only know about the Apple via TikTok.
Billie complaining about multiple Varients (that actually include exclusive and different, interesting conetn) and then selling ISOLATED VOCALS??? (every six year old could isolate vocals from a recording with a free programm) is actually insane and also kind of desperate to me, I can't help it
26:55 "Taylor does not need to create her best work to get a #1 because she has done so much great work already" Look what happened to Ed Sheerans legacy in the long run. He was incredibly overconsumed & towards his later releases the sound & formula of his albums all started blending together, making them indistinguishable. Flash forward to today & no one talks about or celebrates him anymore. Please don't take this the wrong way as I love your content & used to be the same level of stan that you were. You seemed incredibly defensive all throughout this video. Making music that stands the test of time is the real way to cemment a legacy. Records COME & GO. The records that Taylor's currently holding can easily be snatched by Drake, Adele, or even (ew) Morgan Wallen, if they work hard enough at promo. You're correct that Taylor shows no signs of slowing down anytime soon but as someone who liked Taylor's music for over a decade, I'd love to see her take more risks the way she did for 1989 & Folklore. She primarily focused on creating objectively good and COMPLETE bodies of work with 1 or 2 variants because she knew the work would speak for itself on the charts. And it worked. They acheived everything they were supposed to artistically and commercially. Putting out subpar work just because she knows it will sell will eventually backfire.
Even with folklore people on internet thrashed her for releasing a sleepy album without any hits You can never win with the stans But at the same Taylor swift listens to her critics and deliver according to it..the amount of backlash people have given to Taylor for a single album ttpd assuming she will do the same thing for the next albums is baffling One thing I have learned being swift is is always expect the unexpected with Taylor Who knew album like folklore will drop or even like midnights after folklore and evermore People don't know what the next album is gonna be like but they have already formed an entire opinion about the career till the end Btw I also agree with a lot of ttpd criticism but I just know they next album will definitely the opposite of ttpd
@@smitanjalisahu2682 My timeline at the time of Folklore's release was filled with nothing but praise from hardcore Swifties and actual music critics. The general public didn't seem to care that much. I'll be honest Folklore isn't even in my Top 5 of overall TS albums but I can appreciate the artistic integrity it has as an entire body of work. She wasn't out to break records or do fan service with this album but it propelled her career forward in a way no one saw coming. My ideal TS12 has 1989 & Folklore lyricism combined with Lover beats & production.
@@smitanjalisahu2682 My timeline was filled with nothing with praise from the Swifties and the actual music critics at the time of folklores release. The general public didn't seem to care that much. Tbh, folklore isn't even in my Top 5 of TS albums. But I can appreciate it as a body of work because of the artistic integrity it has. She wasn't trying to break records or do fan service but it propelled her career forward in a way that no one saw coming. My ideal TS12 would feature 1989 and folklore lyricism combined with Lover and 1989 beats and production. But at this point, I don't think she's interested in experimenting anymore. She's aiming for safe.
People are rooting for the outcasts, losers and underdogs. Everything is allowed until you actually succeed!!These days victim mentality is considered the highest form of morality, unfortunately… Taylor is the epitome of success, she shines like a diamond, a beautiful rich blond girl, and most people are annoyed by that, they can’t relate to her anymore…
@@dreamchaser7603 she was always a beautiful rich blonde girl and people still relate to her she was always hated on because and she always very loved this has been going on the whole time not arguing just saying that nothing changed
The swiftologist is here to serve cu- I mean truth, once again. Zach, idk if you're a fan of hers, but I'd love to see a deep dive of Carly Rae Jepsen music during early 2010s. I recently got back into her music, and her early albums are pop perfection imo.
The combo: a businesswoman killing it at work + "Of course, we are going to try to take her down." Two things that go hand in hand. (Kudos for your take, great work as usual).
i don’t think there’s anything artistic about gaming the charts but mainstream popstars are businesswomen and men first before they are artists. she’s just doing it more successfully than the rest. i’d rather mainstream artists didn’t encourage mindless consumerism though. and taylor’s album didn’t really seem to appeal to non-stans edit: also regarding the michael jackson comparison, there’s a difference between topping the charts/breaking records with physical sales vs the streaming era. you really had to be dedicated back then to buy an album. michael jackson inspires new artists to this day, and people still listen to his music (thriller, billie jean, etc). i doubt taylor’s singles will still be popular even 20 years later
i think the most annoying part about this whole thing is that these twitter losers always comment on taylor releasing new versions of ttpd or voice memos to "block" these other artists but they don't care about these other artists doing the exact same thing because well they aren't taylor swift so it doesn't matter! these people don't get that this is a competitive business and not some feminist "girl's girl" party
I think it’s completely fair and justified how TS is playing the game. She IS the moment. I’m a big taylor swift fan but I also have a lot of different artists and bands that I listen to on the regular. Taylor is, like you said, building/built a legacy. One that, at least in the form of charts and sales will not last forever. Other people will eventually persist and become that number one artist and from what I can tell, could face the same backlash. See: history repeats itself? Anyone?
I live in Asia my whole life and just a casual pop listener. It's been a long time since I've heard of Charli XCX. The last songs I heard from her are Boom Clap and Fancy. Even with this Brat album, I've yet to hear a single song. I'm actually surprise there's a lot of fans on twitter that talk about her album bcs people around me, who granted are even more detached to western/english pop music than me, have never heard of Brat or Charli XCX in general. I always feel like Brat summer is more popular toward english-speaking countries. I don't hate her or anything, but I feel like some fans overestimated the hype, especially fans that said that album is in the same category 1989 and Teenage Dream popularity wise.
True I am from Asia too The only reason I have got to know about Charlie's brat and chappel because reddit threads where their fans talk trash about taylor when any subject of their fave comes on I am not on Twitter or insta too But I love the chappell discovery but I don't understand brat hype maybe it's just wester people like electronics
@@smitanjalisahu2682 Yes. I love Chappel Roan. I think she's a very promising artist. Her next record will definitely have a more international recognition if she continues to make an album that is as good. I haven't listened to Brat, but considering that the genre is hyperpop, Chappel's sound is definitely more palatable than Charli's. I also don't like hyperpop or EDM in general, but I can imagine a lot of westerners liking that kind of sound, so I get what you mean lol
I've been thinking about this recently and I have a theory. The last time she as this relevant was when she released Boom Clap and Fancy, then she disappeared from the general public until her song for Barbie was released. So I understand why her fans keep coming her to Taylor and saying she's getting blocked, having her name in the same conversation with Taylor is literally the only way to draw people to listen to her. People are literally streaming her album out of hatred for Taylor and its funny. imo the album is more popular as a meme.
people need to realise that you can be competitive (because yk the music industry is such) and still support other artists, like what do they expect her to do? go radio silent and stop promoting her music so other artists can have a chance? that’s not support that’s more like spoonfeeding
don’t even play this album was so fkn boring idk how people can bear to relisten and im a swiftie. swiftie means i love her music, but it doesn’t mean that i have to defend everything she drops, and sorry, but this album was a flop and she really needs to get her stuff together if she wants to beat the declining allegations
@@Swiftie105 Well, yes. I mean, I myself don't enjoy Debut and Speak Now much, but I will not say those two albums are flop if it both aren't. We can talk on which part one doesn't like on each Taylor's album, like I'm fine with "she really needs to get her stuff together", which I assume that Taylor might need to change something in her next record, like changing producer, I very much agree on that. But saying "this album was a flop" when it clearly isn't? Does not sit well to me.
In 2019, Taylor said she knows how to write an album AND how to commercially get it to stay at the top - and that those 2 facts use different parts of her brain. The music industry is a business like any other, and this "you're greedy and unlikeable because you treat it like a business" stuff is ridiculous because it IS a business! People love to project their interpersonal moral values onto the music industry because they don't view it as an industry
Great Video!!! You made a bunch of valid point, but I feel like the main problem that people have with Taylor is just the fact that shes always there. I feel like a sense of boredom has settled on the non-swifty masses surrounding Taylors music, The fact that shes always up in the charts is kinda discouraging to all the fandoms, cuz we want to see our girl succeed. And I feel like that culminated in all the online discourse surrounding taylor hogging the charts, and it all coalesced in a really redundant manner, because people claim they're feminists, and then wrongfully accuse a female artist of "not being a girls girl" simply for seeking commercial success.
I was actually surprised (in a good way) that you decided to make this video defending her. I will never understand people hating on Taylor for releasing different versions and wanting to be at the top of the charts when this also aplies to almost every other artist...
This video is proof that your mode of argument will match the truth behind your message. Critical and thoughtful discourse from an thorough and clear researcher/communicator > misspelt tweet from chronically online stan ANY DAY.
you could have addressed the terrible argument that "she's a white feminist" or "she's a false feminist" bc she blocks other female artists 😂😂😂 like people reaaaalllly don't know what feminism is anymore and it's scary
If you need to explain in detail why your album has cultural impact, maybe it doesn't actually have any. Cultural impact speaks for itself. TTPD would be nothing without the cultural momentum from the Eras tour. The individual songs are hanging on for dear life on the charts, the only metric Swifties seem to value at this point.
If a Swiftie wants to gauge what cultural impact actually is, Kamala Harris used Brat imagery in her presidential campaign. The most important sociopolitical event in the US of the last few years, arguably still the cultural hegemon of the planet. Does TTPD have a moment that comes remotely close in terms of memorability or legacy?
Honestly, I don't understand why Swifties are acting deliberately obtuse about this cultural impact thing. Eras is probably the most influential tour of all time and for sure the music event of the decade! You could not escape her last year. She was the word on everyone's mouths. Now this year, it is different. The energy is undeniably different outside of her (admittedly gargantuanly large) fanbase. Moreover, the album reviewed terribly compared to Folkmore and underwhelming compared to Midnights. And it's reviewing terribly compared to albums you could argue are generating actual cultural buzz right now (Brat, Hard and Soft, Midwestern Princess). Y'all have a lot to brag about! It's okay to admit that she kind of missed with this one! You didn't have to pull out the whiteboard for this last year! That alone says a lot for me.
But where’s the cultural impact? It’s important to see things outside of our bubble. Her new album does not have any cultural impact and I’m sorry to say it. Not even 1 song is on the radio in the European country that I live in and no one is talking about her. Like apart from charts in the US and her humongous fan base which is also the bubble that I’m referring to, explain to me what makes you say that her latest work has cultural impact?
At least Taylor is giving us acoustic versions and voice memos. I can't just access those for free, however if I wanted to speed up or slow down one of Willie's songs I can just crack open an editing software and there I have it for free
