6 MONTHS! Time really flies. I hope you enjoy our long Zelda discussion, and please share your own thoughts on the game now that it’s been half a year. Check out Andres’ channel: www.youtube.com/@UCvA9RiP4JwuO77dVPTgezYA
about the trade off about same map, but way different abilities. i will just say that in time, BOTW will badly aged while TOTK will age like wine. the abilities in TOTK are so unique and the game force used these abilities everywhere with quite original ideas most of the time. TOTK gameplay wise is probably legendary.
@@Ruleof2Review its mostly that if really what people liked about BOTW was its map exploration, well, right now, our hardware is getting so powerfull that close to anyone can make a good map if they have the talent, they need less the programming know how. meanwhile, TOTK abilities are just used in so many ways that the problems lies more with the ideas in design than just plain old map design... hence why i see a lot of companies able to do great maps in the futur but a lot wont even think to try the kind of abilities TOTK pulled off.
@@Ruleof2ReviewHi. Im a newb and very interested in zelda games. What are the top 2 or 3 consoles would you recommend ? I would like to use my PC monitor if possible. I've never played it before.
It is objectively the closest any game has gotten to perfection. It simply has the least number of flaws. Regardless of how the Zelda cycle affects the sheep, this will never change
Truth is the honeymoon phase passes faster for some more than others, I'm sure as the years go by your opinion will change for this game the same as it has for botw
@@eletralad I’ve looked at this game very thoroughly. There’s almost nothing to complain about. Every time I see a “why TOTK is actually bad” video, I click on it wondering if they’ll have anything new, novel, or most importantly major to complain about, and they never do. It’s always a combination of overly exaggerated nitpicks and their own stupidity preventing them from enjoying it. The worst part is, since the majority of the population is made up of NPC’s that don’t actually have their own opinions, people will just agree in the comments. All you have to do is scream something that sounds original really loudly and the majority will agree with you.
@@minecrafter3448 I don't think totk is bad however the game didn't really meet certain expectations to where I can say it does not have flaws. These are personal to my love of Zelda lore and I know the majority of players either don't care for it or know so the lack of older zelda tropes like the triforce I can't complain about. Most people that dislike this game dislike it because they think everything is there but it isint deep enough. If a lot of people agree on shortcomings I'm the game I think that those opinions should not only be validated but also empathize.
@@eletralad the overwhelming majority of people that don’t like it fall into 3 categories: 1. Contrarian. This is the least common, but by far the loudest because of their basic nature. They’re behind all of the “why TOTK is bad” videos, with nothing to actually complain about but a whole lot of things to pretend to complain about. 2. The old Zelda fans, wanting another remake of ocarina of time disguised as it’s own game. Like twilight princess. These people are much more subtle and better at disguising their bias. They seem like they take a balanced approach at critiquing the game until you take a closer look. 3. Sheep. These are the most common. They’re fairly quiet, only chiming in when one of the first two shows up and makes some noise, just parroting what they’ve seen other people have said. They’re easily fooled, every single one of them loved it at launch, before the contrarians showed up and changed their minds. There’s even an embarrassing number of them that actually haven’t played the game, only seen reviews.
@@minecrafter3448 Its actually quite easy to make a "perfect" game. Its much more difficult to make a masterpiece. I remember vividly when Twilight Princess came out. Every said, "its just like Ocarina, but better!" Now, maybe you still feel that way, but the vast majority of others dont. Most people realized that despite Ocarina being "objectively" worse in many ways, it was still a better work of art.
People who didn't like Breath of the Wild are the most vocal about their "disappointment" with Tears of the Kingdom. They can't acknowledge anything positive about the game and would rather go through great lengths and mental gymnastics to tell you why it's not good or "sustainable" for the future of the series. Tears of the Kingdom is a sequel to Breath of the Wild which should set all expectations, but instead, people use it as an outlet to continue venting their frustrations about what they didn’t enjoy about Breath of the Wild and by extension, Tears of the Kingdom. You hardly see anyone talking about how incredibly it builds on the foundation of Breath of the Wild by embracing the community creativity by officially incorporating a robust building mechanic that has led to so many unique creations that enhance combat, traversal, and exploration. This was evident in the claim that it was just 70 dollar DLC leading to its release, an opinion some people still hold onto this long after release despite how fundamentally different all the new mechanics are that change how you interact with the game world like the ability to fuse items onto your weapons, arrows, and shields that not only extend the duration of weapons, but make them stronger, and depending on the combo, can add unique buffs and effects to your weapons and shields that open up so many unique opportunities for combat. This also adds a whole new level of importance to materials, making them much more valuable and useful than they were in Breath of the Wild. And that's not even mentioning the vast improvements to the side quests, shrines, memories, rewards, towers, and the incredible synergy between the sky, surface, and depths. I understand Breath of the Wild wasn't everyone's cup of tea and I do share a lot of the gripes people have about story structure and dungeon design, but what Breath of the Wild offers is far beyond any one of those elements. It's a solid foundation for the future of the series that can very well see these issues addressed, and while Tears of the Kingdom may have not addressed those things specifically, its purpose was to strengthen that foundation by improving on a lot of what needed to be improved in Breath of the Wild, while also allowing for player creativity to shape our experience as no doubt a trial for the next Zelda game that can implement specific mechanics in a much more official capacity to build a game around.
Not for me. I think Botw is one of the greatest works of art in the last 10 years in any medium. I also think Totk kind of sucks. Its like a bad dubstep remix of a classic album. It may sound more exciting, for people who have no understanding of music.
@@alibabaschultz352Then you're not who I'm talking about. But out of curiosity, in what way does Tears of the Kingdom suck where Breath of the Wild doesn't when it's literally an extension of the ideas introduced in Breath of the Wild?
@@Turo602 Imagine your favorite 2 albums. Then imagine playing them at the exact same time. Should be amazing right? Except its not. Botw was focused. Which is incredibly rare in triple A games. Botw was all about exploration and atmosphere. It was meticulously and painstakingly designed to draw the player in. Totk is just mounds and mounds of "entertainment" piled up. Its not great art. Its fun in the moment. But it wont be remembered.
@alibabaschultz352 Those are just a bunch of vague statements. It doesn’t tell me how it's bad, just that you think it is. Like I said in my original comment, nobody can actually go into depth or detail about the game's design philosophies, mechanics, and general improvements outside of "I don't like it" or in this case, because it's bad art? It's entertainment? Statements like that require elaboration.
@@Turo602 Everything in art is subjective, obviously. If you have any interest in game design from experts, there are many interviews out there, including the Zelda team at GDC 2017.
Great overview! Love andres’ channel. I’m a huge fan of TOTK and I think you guys made solid points. I’m a funny case study because I only got a switch a year ago so I could play BOTW. Was out of gaming for a while and finally came back. Anyway, I went straight from BOTW in to TOTK so my head has been swimming Zelda for 12 months haha. I’m def ready for a new map now, but I found all the new mechanics, sky island and the depths to be such an amazing continuation. Simple answer…it’s just a fun game. Beautiful to look at, beautiful to listen to. It’s just good old fashion “good art.” Every other game I try and play just seems dull to me now. Hopefully that’s not forever lol
I'm actually in the middle of my second playthrough of Tears of the Kingdom. I haven't played it since June otherwise. And I actually replayed Breath of the Wild immediately before in order to compare them in retrospect. So far my opinion is that I still like TotK better. There are things I think could be better, but overall it is a damn good game and I like the perspective of thinking of the two games as a single game. That's probably how I will treat them going forward, and always play them back-to-back like this. Although I might start skipping the Champion's Ballad DLC. That felt mega tedious this time, and the payoff has completely lost it's novelty after TotK.
It is alright, i had fun with it. Fire Emblem Engage is still my game of the year, that game is so freaking good, i highly recommend everyone to pick it up and play it! For the future of zelda, i would focus on it with more tears of the king and less breath of the wild. Meaning, less massive open world and a smaller world that is still open feeling, and I would do the ultrahand concept again since you can make another game with different parts to make different vehicles - like better air and sea travel, including underwater vehicles.
I need to go back and finish the game. I got to, likely, the final battle with the 4x Gloom Ganons, but was a lil underpowered. Another thing to do! Lol
Really? Really? Are you guys really telling me you couldn't piece together the Zelda that was appearing everywhere was a fake left by Ganondorf? That was so obvious it shouldn't even count as a twist.
I'm sorry but TOTK is really overrated. It's quantity over quality. It's very fun for about 30 hours and then it gets suddenly super boring. The map is too big and too empty. I'm sorry but the WOW effect was not there at all compared to BOTW. They basically wanted to make everything " bigger " and that was a massive mistake. Just look at how empty the depths are for example (it's ridiculously empty with copy paste same kinds of trees all over the place). Also the lack of ennemis diversity is ridiculous in TOTK. You basically fight the same ennemis over and over again... I wish the Zelda Team came back to a more high quality, highly detailed more " linear " approach like back in time in twilight Princess and OOT etc.. Conclusion : TOTK is a good game but I'm sorry is absolutely not a masterpiece. It's way below expectations.
The depths was a fun exercise in reading the map to target all the yiga spaces Fun detail: if you ride a dragon for its entire cycle you can spot it in your map using hero's path That moment where you figure out how to recharge your zonai battery when you're on a fan bike by dropping down and activating recall to go back up, while the charge happens
The game was/ is phenomenal.. and I don't think everyone realizes just many NEW additions were added to this game/ world with BOTW as it's foundation. It goes well beyond just 152 new shrines, sky islands, depths, caves, 4 new dungeons, new abilities, new enemies, all new memories/ cutscenes, etc... in my opinion, that 6 yr development cycle for the game is justified..
It doesn't go beyond any of the things you listed because every one of those were half-assed to begin with And no, this isn't a 6 year development. Between BotW and TotK, Nintendo have been working on this game for 12 years now and it's still not finished
The first play-through is phenomenal, the best game ever made. But is it worth the 6 year wait? Absolutely not. If it was released in 2019/2020 then okay but there's so many flaws, more was expected, though I appreciate what we got. It's a better first play through than Breath Of The Wild but will have nowhere near the lasting impact of that game. It was 3 or 4 years too late.
I also felt like TOTK was objectively a better game than BOTW. Better story, better mechanics, better final boss fight. But it just didn’t hit for me like BOTW did and almost left me feeling weirdly hollow. But I think that is my fault because I had such high expectations? I think I’m still trying to figure out how I feel about the game overall
Totk is "objectively" worse, in all the ways that matter in design. Botw is a masterpiece, Totk is like a bad dubstep remix of a classic. Most gamers have no understanding of art and design, and think that "more is better", but its not.
@@alibabaschultz352 I agree. Instead of building on BOTW, Nintendo chose to make BOTW again, now focusing on other things, but the result is unbelievably messy, so that the positives of that game are diluted in a bunch of useless things, and the negatives are even clearer. There's nothing you do in TOTK that's really remarkable for anyone who has experience with games. The battle? It's pretty shallow. The puzzles? Basic to the point that many of them can barely be considered puzzles. The sandbox aspect? Primitive compared to what you get in PC games. Graphics? Kinda bad and are far surpassed, even artistically, by Chinese copies. Story? A complete disaster full of contradictions and problems in the way it's told. And you can continue to apply this reasoning to practically every aspect of the game. Of course, someone might say that you can do the same for BOTW, but I don't agree. That game still has something different about it. The first time I played it, when I was still getting to grips with the game and hunting wild boar with my few arrows on the Great Plateau in an attempt to cook the recipe that was incomplete in the old king's hut, that was a unique experience and frankly it's something valuable even when you compare BOTW with the best games available. TOTK didn't offer me any experience even remotely similar. For me, BOTW, although far from perfect, was a positive experience. TOTK was just a big waste of time.
You guys have to stream the next direct together so we can get both of your raw reactions to MP4 running on Switch 2. It has to be announced next direct, it has to.
Please do more Zelda chats and also loved hearing from AndresRestart. I am still loving Tears of the Kingdom about 10 months out. I took a few months break after playing a few hundred hours but the last few weeks I have been hooked right back into it and searching for all the podcasts and chats I can find on it. Seems the vast majority of them came out right near release and then tapered off quickly so it’s nice to hear something more recent outside of all the release hype. All Zelda games have always marked special times in my life that I can clearly remember where I was like getting Link’s Awakening and Oracle of Ages on Gameboy/Gameboy color and A Link Between Worlds on 3DS. I remember getting the DS games and when Wii came out I got Twilight Princess and Wii after weeks of searching stores who had been sold out of the console. My friend bought it for me and I had to pay him back for it which made it even more memorable because at that time I wasn’t rolling in the dough. Zelda games have connected my family for generations and I think its a series all of us have our favorite games and memories with. There’s something very pure about Zelda in both gameplay and in the whole tone. Breath of the Wild was my favorite but undoubtedly Tears of the Kingdom has replaced it. I think I’ll revisit BotW many years down the road (unless they make a remastered version for whatever reason sooner). Breath of the Wild feels like a walk in the park on a Sunday afternoon and Tears of the Kingdom is more like a day at Disney World in the 90s after winning the Super Bowl.
I discovered rule of 2 review during this video. I follow Andres and I am so happy you guys had this discussion. I definitely think you guys should do a podcast! I agree with everything! I would have loved to have had true bird armor at some point lol. I thoroughly enjoyed the depths but I like discovering everything in it on foot lol so it takes awhile. Also I was ok with the amount of sky islands. I actually take it as they marketed the sky islands but they were hiding the depths from us which i absolutely loved! What a discovery ❤
You can just add a user to your switch to create a new save file I've got one for my no-glider playthrough of TotK It's very easy to set up in the settings menu. Don't let the idea of deleting your old game keep you from replaying botw because you can easily work aroud it
the glider should be one of the last things the game gives you...I find games now days gives you access to too many "rewards" from the beginning of the game. Imagine a game where you started off as a chump and slowly worked your way to becoming a super hero...THAT would be an awesome game.
@@dougfoster445 i agree with your sentiment My guess is they wanted to hone in on the do-anything-anytime structure which gives the entire moveset at the start of the game I think the game can be more fun by staggering the abilities more. The tough nut to crack will be making areas traversible without the full move set, while still keeping the open nature of the game Temples seem like the best place to add these abilities and progress the character
I put 1420 hours into BOTW, it got me back into gaming, im almost 50, i started with pong, intellivision, vectrex, commedore vic 20, C64, coleco, consoles to cpu. And these 2 games are top 5 games ever. Im 98.5% done, missing 1 korok, working on talus medallion right now. I haven't looked at my totk time yet, but i have played every day but 2 since release.some little issue but, amazing from an old gamer. Just the draw distance and falling for 2 minutes with no loading on a 6 year old console
I'm like 2/3 of the way thru the story of my 4th playthrough. Put a total of 1.5K hours in, still constantly finding new secrets. I think playing thru multiple times has a vast impact on perspective. This playthrough I got the paraglider then got Majoras Mask right after 🤷
Hello gentlemen, i must say, I really enjoyed your video together…. You two should consider collaborating more often you favor each other. I’m commenting because I have a proposal the two of you should start new games, but this time give yourselves limits don’t act as you are, who you are in my reality act as who you would be as link in the one you’re currently playing. 😉 I bet there will be a level of difficulty that the two of you might not be able to resist and you will have to revert to the person. You are an actual reality to accomplish whatever you need too in the game
Bruh you gotta choose either linear, or having the freedom to choose your path. Be very careful what you wish for. The way elden ring did it still seems right to me. Having the freedom to choose is very hard to develop in the right way that still satisfies players. People are already taking this game for granted (I see videos all over youtube hating on it) for what it accomplished and its sad to see.
I feel like people don't realise how many combinations there were. It wasn't just about making them powerful, but experimenting with the diversity of effects.
1:14:09 I had the exact same thought as you guys with the tiered progression. I actually had an idea where there could be malice or evil tendrils blocking certain parts of the map or underground areas that look like it's just malice but so expertly designed and well placed that they just look normal areas that are otherwise inaccesible. Hear me out; a game based on the properties of the three godesses of hyrule legend; din, nayru, and farore. Because it's still open world, you can go to any region and interact with the dungeons in that area. Two per goddess accessible from the outset, each for their respective goddess. Once you've completed those two, a third one opens up for that region / goddess, but ONLY for that specific region / goddess. After completing all nine dungeons (two initial, plus the third hidden dungeon) a final temple opens up where you play the endgame. To compensate for increased amount of dungeons, there'd be less of a focus on shrines, although they will still be present to a moderate extent. Shrine placement could be distinct and varied, with some easily accessible, but some difficult to access, needing building / creative power to access (since more of the Zelda fans that were introduced to the franchise via Breath of the Wild lean in that direction). Each dungeon would be visually distinct and memorable, and take full advantage of the Switch 2's processing capabilities. Linearity could be imposed in these areas similar to the shrines. Only problem I have with this concept is that Botw and Totk both let you reach endgame immediately after the tutorial. Maybe hide the endgame somewhere we wouldn't think to look? Like totk's but more hidden? What do you guys think? TL;DR : Copium.
Going into Breath of the Wild, Xenoblade Chronicles and Zelda were my 2 favorite game franchises. I had just come off of playing Xenoblade Chronicles X grinding through post-game content before BotW launched and I was so excited to see a Zelda game in a Xenoblade-esc world (BotW's world was built by the Xenoblade X team). Sadly, BotW was a turning point for me, as, to me, in combining my 2 favorite franchises, it delivered a watered down experience of both. The dungeons were few and mediocre, and while shrines were fine, they were only ever fine. Never really incredible, though some clever and that was nice. On the Xenoblade side, the world was big, but it was never as fun to travel through. The running, jumping, and even vehicles (horses/glider) couldn't compare to what X offered. Safe to say, I ended up incredibly disappointed and realized that the success of BotW meant I was unlikely to get any fully new Zelda games presenting what I loved about the franchise as the premier reasons to play it anymore. Fast forward a few years and my dissatisfaction with BotW wore off. I came to enjoy the game for what it was, though still found it to be one of the least repayable experiences I've ever had in a game since so much of the intrigue of the game was tied to the sense of discovery that came with it. But I thought it delivered on the feeling of discovery better than most games I had ever experienced. Flash forward to Tears of the Kingdom and I went in once again looking for this sense of discovery, and I've once again had a mixed experience. The opening delivered the sense of discovery that I had remembered from BotW, but it felt a bit long-winded for the tutorial area that was the Great Sky Island. Even after jumping off, I just wanted to explore, and I realized I didn't have the paragliding yet. So of course I jumped into the depths and died a few times just to see if I could get to the bottom without accidentally diving into the gloom covered walls of the hole. I actually managed to grab onto the wall and get a good rhythm of grabbing and diving before the gloom could hurt me, but even mastering that and letting go from the bottom of the hole into the depths, the fall was still a guaranteed death, so I gave up on getting down there without the paraglider. I continued the lookout landing tutorial til I got bored and just ran off on a random direction for a couple hours before getting into the great plateau, realizing I couldn't really do much without the paraglider, and returning to the lookout landing tutorial and finally finishing it. The opening bored me so much I had abandoned it twice before I had unlocked the ability to access Skyview towers and use the paraglider, things that can be earned in an hour or 2 in BotW and are given to you before you leave the GP. You had everything necessary to your adventure by the end of the obvious tutorial area of that game. Tears extends that tutorial til you go through about an hour of story beats after jumping off, and jumping off of the tower leaves you in the middle of nowhere where you can, again, run in any direction. The needs of the player and the open design conflict in this way.. To me, I rather play the opening of Twilight Princess at half speed. The thing about Twilight Princess was that it never pretended to give you an access to anything before you had the ability to do things when you got to your adventure. I dislike the false start that is leaving the Great Sky Island. Even the sky island itself was a bit annoying cause it was designed to get around using your abilities and getting around without them was tedious, but I didn't want to just run to the story points. Why even bother spawning me a half hour away from the next cutscene if I can't really explore or achieve anything without going through it? In BotW, I've come to really appreciate that. While it's inconvenient to not have your runes for the first bit of the game, you can theoretically explore the entire great plateau with relative ease based on Link's innate abilities. The same isn't so for the Great Sky Island and again when you jump off of the GSI to the mainland of Hyrule. However, I can get past those issues. After all, once you finish the way too long tutorial, you do have everything you need for the rest of the game. That said, again, I didn't like what I found. Ultrahand and sky towers essentially break the exploration of the game. Sure, you can make a car or get a horse and go across the land. Love that you can even import your horses from BotW. But traveling through the sky is so much more efficient. And you can have a vantage point to see shrines from miles off and glide straight to them. In BotW, I was disappointed that I was able to get to the top of the twin peaks before upgrading any of my stats or abilities after jumping off of the plateau. I thought it'd take effort, but I got to the peak after thinking I was half way up. It felt like I got to the top when I just started to try. In Tears, there is no try. Anywhere you want to go you can just get to. The only exceptions are some sky islands that require some consideration of how you want to use zonai devices. But those were rare and once you unlocked auto-build, you could essentially try whatever you wanted and only needed to use one big charge for temporary unlimited zonai energy to get everywhere. It took what was a somewhat disheartening realization from the first game and turned it into a pointless endeavor in the first place. There is no point to having a massive world if travel is so unrestricted. If you enjoy travelling with zonai devices, it turns travelling into travelling for its own sake, otherwise it's just a waste of time. I'm here, I know how to get there, I know what I'll do to get there, and I know it's gonna waste 5 minutes cause I'm just gonna fly in a straight line, and then do it again, and again, and again. Honestly, I find TotK to be technically very impressive. It's a programming masterwork. The story is even fine enough, though delivered in just about the worst way possible. But what I really came to the conclusion was that it is the ultimate toy box experience. It is a sandbox/toy box you can play in as much as you want with the toys it gives you access to. However, as a game, with gameplay as the primary focus, it's just bad. The gameplay is genuinely not good. The travel is as tedious as ever, the combat is better-ish than BotW, but it's very same-y. Bows are using fusions from a list that takes forever to get through, the bullet time is really inconsistent on when it activates, like I've used it after enemies finished their attacks after stepping closer to them and then side jumping but also not had it activate when I jumped back right as a swing was about to hit me, it's just finicky, and there isn't that much depth to it in the end. You have one main attack button and there's some depth in options, but really, you're either gonna run in and swing a weapon, quick time dodge and flurry rush, or snipe. It works well for the boss fights, but again, it's not as fun as, say, Twilight Princess, where perrying and helm splitters, or mortal draws, or rolling around to do back attacks were all options for just the sword combat. And sure, those weren't necessary then, and you still have most of the abilities, but it just gets old fast with the limited enemy variety over such a long game. The puzzles are also mediocre and most can be skipped over with ultrahand/zonai devise usage. In the end, I dropped this game. First Zelda I've done that with. Fine experience if you like the sandbox, but, otherwise, it's really not there
I am still trying to 100% this game (true 100%, aka everything but collecting max items/inventory/rupees/zonaite, --but I'll have at least one of each at the end). Great comments, guys.
I think if it didn’t share the same map as botw and didn’t use so much copy/paste elements to fill the world, I would’ve enjoyed it more than I did. But to me it felt more like an expansion of botw rather than a brand new game.
I randomly came across this video and as a huge Zelda fan, I decided to give it a listen. I’m glad you decided to go with spoilers as I felt this bright a heck more to the conversation. Great talking points and that last idea you really need to copyright that! I can’t believe it’s been six months since this game released. I did enjoy the game but my thoughts and feelings were a little bit conflicted as to how I really felt about a direct sequel. This world should’ve just completely flipped into the dark world and I kinda get the sense of what it could’ve been if they flushed out more to the under world. As for the sky islands I do wish it was brought to life more and I agree, the loftwing would’ve been a fantastic addition to this game. Even if this ended up being an endgame reward like the bike from botw. Great podcast btw.
