I wish that each Ancient Sage shared their own perspective on the Imprisoning War instead of repeating the same cutscene. Here are my ideas for each one: 1. The Rito Sage could depict using the Stormwind Ark in battle against the Demon King’s army and taking down multiple Colgeras. 2. The Goron Sage could talk about the days when the City of Gorondia was thriving. Maybe it was a mining town, and it helped the people of Hyrule create weapons. 3. The Zora have healing powers, so they could show the Zora Sage healing people’s wounds. 4. The Gerudo has the most potential. A cutscene of the conflict between the Gerudo Sage and Ganondorf could’ve been amazing. We could have seen Ganondorf’s motivation for having a secret stone of his own. 5. Mineru’s cutscenes are the best in the game. I don’t think I’d change them.
Damn. I just wanted to see each sage fight on of the phantom ganons in their own way. This is much more ambitious, and I'm totally on board! Such a shame Nintendo let us down like this; we should be on the development team! The fans!
The only thing I’d change about Mineru’s cutscene is letting her grieve Rauru. Mineru watches her baby brother die right in front of her eyes while she’s being essentially tortured to death by the gloom eating away at her, she should have more of an emotional reaction to that! And then when she exchanges her vow with Link she holds her dead baby brother’s hand through Link for the very last time, of which Link’s hand is significantly smaller than Rauru’s, probably being closer in size to Rauru’s hand when he was a child and Mineru has no reaction at all. WHY NOT? Why can’t they just let her show emotion about that? She’s literally lost everything dear to her heart, just let Mineru express emotion about it. This game is so weird about not letting Mineru or Rauru (or Link) express any emotion and grieve their loved ones when they absolutely should. Like… Rauru gets to grieve his dead wife who he loved very, very much for like maybe 2 seconds and then that’s it! He isn’t allowed to cry over her? He isn’t allowed to say “I miss you, I’m sorry” to her? Rauru also doesn’t get to express concern or grief for his sister either when the player interacts with him and we barely see him or Mineru interact with each other in the past at all. What is even the point in establishing that they’re siblings and that both Rauru and Mineru are those who have a strong sense of responsibility and caring if they’re not going to do anything with it?
The reason for Ganondorf's simplicity is not due to the writing, but due to the English localization. He has an actual motive in the original script and other regional localizations. He belives the world has lost its courage because of the Zonai, beings with god-like power that only use it for peaceful purposes. To him, that is cowardice, and he wishes to stamp it out - something echoed by his line about Rauru having squandered the stones' potential. It's one of many blenders in the English version. We already know about Link not writing the quest descriptions himself like he's supposed to, which is the perfect way to give us his thoughts without having him speak. We have a soulless bastardization of the original intent.
@@DucksAreYellow Unfortunately for me, minor spelling mistake 🥲 But yeah, the quest descriptions not being in first person is a thing in both games, and we didn't get Link's line about wanting to see Zelda's smile again in BotW. I need to know what we missed in TotK with how focused on finding Zelda he is. WE WERE ROBBED.
i was confused when ganondorf mentioned that sonia's death was a consequence of rauru's arrogance. there was absolutely no context for that line (at least in the english version) and i kinda just threw it away. im sure there was actual context for it in the original japanese version but in the english version rauru is painted as this wise king who could do nothing wrong. however, in a later cutscene rauru mentions this arrogant mistake of his, but it doesnt go into detail. i want to see this arrogant mistake that rauru made, where he, idk, gets greedy for power and doesnt think of others. i know thats way off from the original story, but it might work.
Ganondorf is disappointed in Link because RIGHT AFTER that Rauru speech he wakes up millennia later, busts the master sword, and immediately takes Link's arm. He doesn't see Link as worthy in the final fight because of what happened at the start of the game. The fight itself is basically there to prove his assumption wrong.
@@DucksAreYellowhe sort of does that during the boss fight.During the 1st phase ganondorf talks shit when he hits link but in the 2nd phase he doesn't almost like ganondorf is getting some respect for link.Still wish he would say to link maybe something like hmm maybe I was wrong to not consider you a opponent.
@@joylechanceux4805this is also true, though he says “though not by much”- how cool would it have been if he praised link properly in the final fight so we would’ve gotten “is that the best you can do” -> “looks like there’s more to you but not by much” -> “finally a worthy opponent, I was wrong about you”. We can creatively create that arc ourselves by implying the last one in his “im beginning to enjoy this”/“feel the blood coursing through my veins” rant after the first stage, but would’ve been nice if it was acknowledged properly.
I just wish Zelda becoming a Dragon and Link needing a prosthetic arm were permanent changes. If TotK has a main theme, it’s honouring the sacrifices of others. Rauru lays down his life to give Hyrule a fighting chance and leaves Link the Ultrahand to help him on his quest, Link sacrifices both an arm and the master sword to protect Zelda from Ganondorf, and Zelda herself, inspired by both her distant ancestor and her trusted knight, sacrifices her humanity and mind for a lonely life in the skies to repair his weapon and make it stronger then ever. Ganondorf’s sacrifice, on the other hand, ends up accomplishing nothing because it was an entirely selfish decision made just to spite Link. But Sonia and Rauru showing up at the end to completely nullify the prices Zelda and Link paid in the name of protecting Hyrule devalues those sacrifices because it means they aren’t really “forever changed”. If Zelda was still trapped as a Dragon but was at least able to regain her mind, and Link had to replace Ultrahand with a Sheikah robot-arm so Rauru could properly rest in peace, it would have stayed true to the idea that help you give others at cost to yourself is eventually repaid.
I know Nintendo would never go so far as to leave Zelda a dragon, but the arm thing is entirely realistic. I think for Zelda, the sacrifice would’ve meant more if she was conscious for the last 10,000 years, as it is she just fell asleep and woke up after the final fight, no struggle. At least that way it could feel like she sacrificed something
Or if human Zelda's mind was gone but there was some hope for improvement in the future. That would have been a fine ending. You can't have a story about sacrifice without any sacrifice. I know Nintendo has a long history of hating story-driven games, but they really need to invest in some actual writers if this is the direction they're going.
The only two problems: Zelda still had her memories - she was clearly never fully dragon, at least according to mineru's assumptions. She also contains the full triforce, so best case scenario they just set up a third game where they activate it to save her, which would be silly because the triforce should break itself if she is truly gone as a dragon. Link needs a hand to catch her with, and it cant be anyone else's. Nintendo just isn't going to have a scene with an amputee link. That said, I'm sure they could have just had an explanation for how he got it back.
Thats really not that uncommon nowadays; there are so many resources available now that teach people how to get that pro quality, he probably did his homework before doing so. and maybe he already had enough money to get good enough equipment before youtube.
That's a very good point, Ganondorf has no reason to be trusting of Rarau. In fact it would have been more interesting for Ganondorf to question the other leaders and make them wonder why they are swearing loyalty to this forgine creature who dropped out of the sky and now claims to be king of all the lands. It wouldn't have to be due to any malice on Daddydorf's part, what benefits do the other rulers gain for being subservient to Rarau? These seeds of doubt would make for intriguing tension if everyone starts agreeing with Ganondorf.
Gabon Forg is a cool villain cuz he’s smart and good at manipulating people, here his master cunning was just distract someone, stab them, then use brute force and win. One of his first lines in the memories is “So brute force won’t do it” but it’s literally all he uses
I remember a line from Rauru talking about the secret stone amplifying Zelda’s power, and he says that she could do more research on how to use her power to get back to her own time. Maybe there could’ve been a cutscene involving the ghost of Rauru and Sonia talking to Link about his Recall ability being the key to bringing back Zelda to her human form, since Recall is essentially Zelda’s Sage ability. I think a good placement for this cutscene is when Link gets the Master Sword and returns to the Temple of Time, and this cutscene will only play if the Dragon Tears quest line is complete.
As this is a Japanese story, it might make more sense to apply kishotenketsu than the western 3-act structure. The light dragon reveal fits better as the midpoint twist rather than as a final-act moment of despair.
In defense of the ghosts, BoTW had the champions and the king exist in the world as ghosts that could interact with the world to some degree too, and none of them had anything to anchor them either, so ghosts existing is sort of canon to this world already, and definitely not just a Zonai thing, but I was also confused that Sonia appeared at the end, I feel like it just came completely out of left field?? Like maybe Sonia could've also been there during the tutorial, and then it wouldn't have been so confusing when suddenly she just appeared despite never having been a ghost before
Great video dude, I think you nailed it. I personally think one way to make Ganondorf more involved in the story would be for him to brain wash the Gerudo into serving him instead of brainwashing the Gorons as he does in the game. Just think how emotional it would be to have to wage a war against the Gerudo even though Riju is your friend.
I think the tears should have appeared one at a time rather than having all of them be on the map already. I (luckily) managed to do them all in order since the forgotten temple hints at them chronologically using the murals, which was a clever detail, however so many of my friends just gathered them randomly to the point that basically nothing makes sense or you already discover major points (the death of sonya for example way before you even know who she is). Since the dragon is looping around the map anyway why not have a tear fall after obtaining the last one, this way you get a clear objective and you slowly build up the geoglyphs on the map to have a sense of progression similar to how breath of the wild had lasers point to hyrule castle after each divine beast
I found mineru by complete accident, i decided one day to explore the storm cloud in the sky and found a mask that had a laser pointer effect like the incomplete shrines wich was a great adventuring point and personal discovery!
y'know what is still meaningful comparison here? WIND WAKER the King's narrative arc, of shepherding Link along his quest because it's just what he knows to do when the fate of the world's at stake and Ganon is loose, but growing to appreciate the kid's sacrifices and mental fortitude, and by extension the surface world he represents, makes his final sacrifice to sink beneath the waves with his kingdom MEANINGFUL. his decision, borne of understanding that you cannot return to the past and should instead look forward to the future, has real narrative weight to it, and ties to the game's overall theme of traditions and the past.
The whole "it's Nintendo, they won't deal with death" is insulting on its face. Zelda, by itself, has dealt with death TWICE, both on E games in Links awakening and majoras mask. Both had heavy themes of death and sacrifice weaved within it. They've killed characters off and left them dead before, they could do it again and take some risks, but they didn't. Amazing video. I loved the step by step analysis of the story and gameplay themes.
I feel like your biggest problem can be summed up with the stakes, which is something that open world games suffer with commonly. Games like the Witcher 3 and RDR2 are linear games in an open world which commonly will take you from one mission to another, separating the story from the open world. BotW and TotK lower the stakes alot as to not force the players hand in completing the game too early, but as you mention, TotK fucked that up. It has colosal stakes in the tutorial island where you think you could find zelda, but once you send back the master sword the stakes deflate somewhat.
15:23 the "AnCiEnT LiTeRaTuRe" cracks me up everytime xD 22:57 the way you explained the gameplay structure of WW and Tokt was really neat. made me realize even more how different new and old zelda are. You put into words what i kinds knew or felt, but couldnt 100% point it out. something to add is also how difficult the balancing acts between these 2 versions is here. If you design shrines to be only completable after aquiring a Special Item, then the player would need to travel ungodly amounts of paths to "get item, go back to location, repeat". this works in a smaller world i think, but it would get frustating ove rthe span of the game. The open world design; giving the players all tools at the beginning; also makes Bosses piss easy. You cant design them for special items, so every boss has to be killable by the start gear, which results in stupid cheese tactics that once you know them, they ruin the gameplay... What i would have loved is this: The "Temples" once you completed them, grant you new abilities (like they kinda give you) and then its a bait. You got the spirit stone of the region and the hazards dont go away. As it turns out: each region has a 2nd true Temple on a different location. The 2nd Water temple is in the Zora Ruins below the Sea, that you needed to go to enter the Sky Water Temple (which would be a 100% better location choice for a fucking "WATER" Temple. Nintendo must have felt smart "hehe look! water temple in sky! look! very unique!"), and then you proceed to enter content that wasnt available before. Make this event also trigger new "shrines" that werent there before, that play with the new ability and your physic knowledge of said region. ALSO: PLS FOR GODS SAKE! Make a better scaling system! Make the Demon Army a REAL fight outside on hyrule field! When i saw Mineru's cutscene of Ganon riding his Horse [ 29:50 ], i thought that was also the finaly! I mean: WHY THE FOUCK do we see new Soldiers going to Lookout-landing, when nothing happens there? They implemented this neat little "help the armies out" on the map, but then didnt made a nice NPC final fight? HUH? Then what was the point of "oh wow.. we sadly cant send you soldiers to lookout-landing because our hazard hinders us.... Oh! the hazard is gone! We can now send our soldiers there!." WHAT WAS THE POINT PF THIS??! ( i guess the switch would just melt when this army fight would happen xD; but knowing the Zelda team, they would find a solution. make all more low poly. unload the map and make a red flame circle around hyrile field to hide it, dunno). Imagine if you could gear them up more and more. This would make "getting the 100th same sword out of a "TrEaSuRe" chest worth the time spend. You would be happy getting another Royal Sword, and then grind Lynels to fuse them and give this to your NPCs... Also: Why are the light roots so useless? The Reward of getting all is...... a Medal..... A MEDAL?. How about: X-Amount of light roots triggers a special Phantom-Ganon/Darknut/"insert middle boss" fight you have to deal with. and each time you succed, "the demon's forces got weakened" and each light root actually effects the final battle a little. Why is that good? Make the Demon Army and Ganondorf + Boss Rush UNGODLY HARD. This will please players who like challenges. And players who notice "oh. im to undergeared or weak or bad" can then start exploring more light roots, get more gear, do the "Temples" and get their Army ready. But no... This "Army" feature was just a throwaway Toy, like many other new gameplay elements. We get Sky Island? How about we copy the same "rotate this bridge" a million times! Players would enjoy many sky islands? NAH! We only do 2 big regions! One is the tutorial, the 2nd can accidently be skipped completly aka. Mineru island x) -Aonuma How about we add caves! But every cave is just "destroy X-amount of stone for 10 hours, then kill monkey with long ass sticks, then get tingles 3rd underwear, or Ganon's used socks after he saw Rauru the first time, and a snowflake to satisfy this one weird fetishist who wants to be a glowing rabbit". cool. how engaging. Players will love smashing Rocks for gazzillion of times. I bet! -Aonuma How about we re-add Koroks, and this time we have backpack bois (i love them. pls dont crucify xD ), but the Korok golden poop is as useless as ever before. Imagine.... but thats a stretch... if only.... if only you could get Maronus as some sort of a companion after finding x-amount of Koroks... i wonder if a companion feature would work... maybe make Maronus grow out this cool wood gear with special properties... OH. Oh if only we had a Companion feature already as inspiration in Totk!... NAH!! Noone wants Korok Poop to have a good use lmao. drop that idea. -Aonuma Wow lets add the Depths! But instead of creating new content, we put resources there to annoy players who want to get more battery and use autobuild! AMAZING! Make the Players feel forced to enter there to farm gazillion of camps to get zonai, so they can poop out 3 autobuilds, then be forced to reenter, which feels like slave labor to have 5 minutes of fun..... Wait what? Players want actual content? What? We could add the lost shikah tech there and the 4 Divine Beast as ruins and make players be joyfull when they find their first Glooom-Invested-Guardian? NAH! We Just Smash Every Single Chest With The Amiibo Items From BOTW! They will love it! -Aonuma [ imagine the instinctive reaction when e "gloomed remix" of the guardian music would start and then you witness the true terror of a Gloom Guardian. Imagine not Re-using your best enemy from the previous game. Only at Nintendo ] How is every idea thrown into the meatgrinder in this game? Is the Zelda team really happy with this half-assed result? Oh. One easy fix: You Can NOT see tears out of order! Make them always in order, no matter which tear you collect NINTENDO!!! Cool. i saw a corpse of a Women and Ganondorf transforms into Demise. cool. WHAT THE FUCK JSUT HAPPENED? Oh! That Women was Sonia! She was a mother figure for Zelda for 2 minutes! Ah. ty. if only i could have bonded with here before i see HER FUCKING CORPSE AS MY FIRST SCENE. x) Only at Nintendo. Edit: Maybe to get some positive stuff in here. Totk is probably my most favourite game. My vanilla playtime is 180 hours, increasing with my 2 modded playthroughs. I like the bagpack korok missions, i like monster camps and how much stupid stuff i can do to have fun. totk is an improvement to botw, but issues stay issues.
Excellent work on these videos and their production quality. Probably one of the best analyses I've seen on this topic (I'd put it up there with the quality of Zeltik's analysis on the highs and lows of how TOTK told its story). You articulated many of the reasons why I really enjoyed TOTK from both gameplay and story, especially the relationship that is setup with Link and Zelda, along with where I felt the execution left something to be desired. I'm also hopeful for the next game, especially since I think they have it in them to get it right since they did a good job with Link and Zelda in Skyward Sword and did put together a good dynamic for them in TOTK. Would love to see an analysis from you on Skyward Sword's story as well.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I think another major problem is the refusal to make this Link emote. It hinders emotional moments for me being Link is supposed to represent the player, he is an avatar, but when it looks like he feels nothing it takes me out of it. Such as in the end and he see Zelda again and he expresses nothing when she wakes up. Same with Minerus goodbye as everyone is doing something but him, he is just standing there. A silent protagonist does not need to be a blank protagonist. Link in Skyward Sword goes through similar moments as this one, when Zelda sacrifices herself you can see his pain and when they reunite you can see how happy they are. Link's lack of emotion hinders this Zelink for me too, I'm not going to argue on how canon it is but for me I can't get into it when one member of the party doesn't show much emotion for the other. Meanwhile I adore Skyward Sword Zelink and Spirit Tracks has the best one (which they are also both very much canon outside of environmental storytelling and ST has the cutest ending the way they both reach out and hold each other's hands watching the sunset 😭). I'm just tired of this Link being so emotionless for big scenes, he shows emotion in little interactions but for the big ones there's nothing. He should've at least smiled at her man... Overall for this style of gameplay I prefer botws story because it compliments the game well. For totk the two contrast too much (and there is some other stuff the sours the story a little for me.) And damn it Link should've never gotten his arm back Rauru said it couldn't be restored and they had to get rid of it to save Link's life so how and why is it back. The time reversal thing doesn't even work because his arm isn't THERE. You need the object to put it back in its place but his arm is gone it makes even less sense than Zelda coming back.
Link was always a great silent protagonist and was slowly getting more emotive. Even in oot there is so much characterization of link by how the story relates to his situation. You know so much about oot link and he barely has any expression but so much can be inferred by how personal the quest is and how universal the concepts it talks about are. Him backing away slowly and then turning around running after getting the ocarina shows so much emotion with such primitive tech. I don't even get why he's this silent and lacking in emotion. It serves nothing and benefits nothing.
This is one of the most well-organized and engaging video essays I have watched on this platform. Every single moment I thought you were making a great point. I stopped playing this game almost two thirds of the way through, and I still experienced the story in the “correct order.” Really great stuff, though
The game should have some story restricted areas to deliver the emotional beats of the story better. I, for example, felt that I was punished in the story for exploring, because I stumbled into the fifth sage storyline by accident when trying to get to the stormy clouds above Farone. The feeling of discovery was huge, I had uncovered an entire quest line in the game which appeared out of nowhere, and it felt like an enormous surprise, but this element was later overtaken by the sensation that I had robbed myself of the narrative thrill. In the end, after the Throne Room fight there was supposed to be this allure of mystery, the secret of the ring ruins finally uncovered, the path of the Snake cleared, all this thrill gone because I had already gotten to the end of all this storylines without even realizing it. BOTW didn’t have this problem because the story was incredibly simple. I praise TOTK for improving on BOTW’s lackluster story, but the drawback was that, without any restricted areas, you could accidentally cheat yourself out of the good story beats
I think Sonia is able to have a force ghost because, even though she isn't Zonai, she is special as the ancestor of the Hylians - hence why we see statues of Rauru and Sonia in all of the shrines, and they're able to offer blessings of light to Link (also shoutout to my favorite zelda ghost, the ghost of zelda in spirit tracks)
Something similar happened already in BotW. I was expecting an elderly Zelda at the end, considering she was keeping the calamity at bay for 100 years. Great video.
Imagine the possibilities of Link encountering a younger Ganon from the past, and then forming a sort of mutual respect of their combat abilities and unwavering determination. It could be a cool "In another life, we could have been allies but are destined to be enemies" type of dynamic
I hated Zelda’s lines at the very end because it made her turning into a dragon feel like nothing because she wasn’t even really conscious during the entire thing so it was basically a nap and she woke up to everything fine. Also I don’t mind Sonia having a ghost because I viewed it as the same as the champions in botw
Makes me wonder why she was assisting Link against Dragondorf if her mind wasn't there. Was it pure instincts? Why was she shaking Link off her head when he tried to pull out the Master Sword? Was it embedded in her skull? I thought it was just inside her hair and not that tightly at that.
Honestly the nonlinear story telling just makes the story confusing, feel spoilery, and unsatisfying. I am impressed that this video is a better explanation of "The Hero's Journey" than an entire college semester of AP Literature. 😂
I'm so glad somebody else shares my viewpoint on the final fight! Loved this essay, really well thought out, and even though I prefer TotK to BotW, I do agree with every point you make. And the comparisons to Wind Waker (my favourite game in the series) really brought home how the game and narrative structure impacts this one
I REALLY appreciate you using eloquent wording and avoiding foul language. It is a major relief for me to be able to watch you and not feel like my ears are being insulted every 5 seconds! Subbed!
14:03 personally I think the reason why Zelda is transformed at the end is bc they gave her unique loot as a dragon and it wouldn't be able to be obtained if you cured her sooner. But that just seems like a lame stupid problem they made for themselves. They could've not given her that loot, or made the loot obtainable in a different way post-un-dragonification.
It seems in the final cutscene with Rauru and Sonia, that after Ganondorf's defeat Link and Zelda as the Light Dragon ended up in a dimension outside of time very similar to the realms the four sages are in when we find them after the temples. Perhaps it is a nod to the Sacred Realm? It could also explain why the Super Recall worked to restore Zelda to her Hylian form without having major ramifications on the timeline/continuity. Edit: Forgot to mention that this place is probably also just where Rauru moved onto after the tutorial and the same place Mineru goes onto in the final cutscene.
I think another problem with the ending is that Link's and Zelda's situations are presented to the player as irreversible. We're told as much when it comes to draconification, and we can safely assume it's the same for Link's arm since it's described as "beyond saving", implying it either became completely unusable or dangerous for his health - plus Rauru's arm is literally grafted onto him, so unless he keeps it afterward all is done he just won't have one of his limbs anymore. There's never any indication that either of these situations have any resolution, so there's no reason to believe there will be a way to return to the status quo of the game's beginning, which is fine! Things will just have to be different, maybe bittersweet, but the traces of this adventure will still linger on the protagonists! The ending chickening out and undoing these changes cancels all of their sacrifice and pain out, and as skittybitty put it in their essay Link and Zelda get out of this story as though it had never even happened. A few hints regarding the possibility of the damage being undone scattered across dialogue boxes or books (maybe in the castle's library?) could have made the whole deal at least a little less aggravating
There are a couple things i’ve thought about that would improve the narrative for me. 1. As you said, repeated interactions between ganondorf and link. 2. The story, either parts or the whole, being locked behind game progression. 3. A quest surrounding the memories to learn to turn zelda back 4. (Even though nintendo wouldn’t do this) to have a dark night of the soul where link realizes that he cannot bring zelda back without sacrificing his own life. Thus there is no saving the world and saving zelda at the same time. They could have even found another way after that to save her so it felt more earned. 5. A companion like mineru or even rauru to help us process the gravity of the themes and major plot points. Perhaps there could be a motive of deep regrets and living down past mistakes. 6. Some facial expressions from link 7. A hug. I was waiting for her to leap into his arms at the end when she is turned back
One thing they could have done to make Zelda a companion is to have part of her soul in the Master Sword. I mean, she was literally attached to it for thousands of years. She could then appear as an ghost companion, similar to Fi from "Skyward Sword". Of course it's only a fragment of Zelda, and not fully Zelda herself. She could even give exposition as you regain Zelda's memories. This could have been a great reward to completing the "Dragons Tears", and maybe Shadow Zelda could even give you move time-based powers. Maybe Stasis?
I’m a little drinky atm, but I was thinking about how cool it would be if after the ganon fight Zelda remained a dragon and either the “true” final quest of game would be to return her to human. OR, end the game after the fight, everyone big sad that Zelda is still a dragon, then release the DLC as the quest to return her to human. Dude I should get an award
12:03 The Emerald Tablet Its Alchemy, Shintoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Astrology, Cosmology, Wuxing etc. In short. Metaphysics. So im not surprised. The Bargainer statues exist to ferry souls to the after life, so thats why we see Sonia and Rauru at the end. They came back. Sonia is a descendent of Hylia. Theres more to the story than we see and i think it has to do with the ancient hero, and zelda being the fortune teller. Link had to put all the sages power in that gauntlet on his right hand. it was made to hold all 5 elements. Which in BotW its Wuxing while in this game its closer to another form of alchemy. were the 5th element is called Aether. FF7 has it too, its called the Life stream. And in an interview with Fujibayashi he even called it "Feng Shui" which is Qi which is in DBZ! and yes... you know right where im going with this. Naruto Chakra. In fact a Game over jesse video shows that the sheikah tech and slate in botw was not in the bulid that was shown live with aonuma and miyamoto in (Wii U - The Legend of Zelda - Gameplay First Look from The Game Awards 9 years ago) and in a cut image still in the final build is link doing hand signs. Those are real hand prays ninja used called the Kuji kiri and i assume thats how the runes was gonna work before the slate was incorporated. Magnesis fits perfectly with Wuxing, chinese alchemy philosphy. which is what feng shui also is about. its all like a giant circle. Yea i been doin vids and livestreams of this stuff too. lol its super fascinating! And a lot of shintoism has a lot of these in common. i cant believe i was right when i guessed alchemy before tears came out.
Thank you for exactly pinpointing where the story for me went absolutely wrong! I did not like the retcon, but the lack of a "hero's defeat" was painful. I went into the Ganondorf bossfight thinking it was the end of the second act or something and then it ended, which was such a shame considering how much Ganondorf was built up but I (Link) had barely any personal relation to him.
Thanks! Great essay :) It helped me to really see/reflect the game. Although it seemed like a harsh criticism, they were true points and you came back to a peaceful point - it's still a quite good game and we still love Zelda games 😌 Now I can appreciate TOTK a bit more, thanks for that!! ✨ I will play it again.
Why does it feel like the stories in Zelda games are actually getting worse the more they're trying. I'm starting to miss the days where we barely had any at all. At least they did simple well.
For real, like even in skyward sword when Link realises Zelda is sealing her away for 10,000 years he's shocked, runs forward almost tripping and banging on the glass. Then when realisation sets in he's visibly upset and lowers his head. There's so much expression even though he doesnt speak. In totk, this Link just stares at the sky when he finds out and doesnt emote.
I love Zelda totk & admit I was hesitant to watch your video. But I'm glad I did. Those were really good points - you really made me think. Made me wonder what could have been.
To be fair Zelda was stuck in the past the whole game eventually turning into a dragon and what i feel like what was done better in botw/totk than Naruto is that if Link and Zelda were in a relationship it would make sense because in botw they didn't start out as lovers but eventually came to that through time as we can see in the memories and it looks less one sided since Link spends alot of time with Zelda and opens up to her and he hasn't done that with any other characters of my knowledge not even Mipha and Kass already stated that Zelda loved Link and in totk there are multiple hints that they are in a mutual relationship that didn't start from nowhere like Naruto and Hinata like Links house, a certain memory, and the ending so I think both of the story shows really good character development and growth I also wanted a kiss at the end of totk but than again the game is E for everyone at the end of it all i think it was a pretty good story just some minor tweaks would have made it better but Nintendo usually focus on gameplay story second
And what did I say?? I'm dining on the finest cuisine in all of Aincrad, not 3 day old steak. This is a wonderful video essay and will, God and I willing, hopefully blow up.
For Sonia's ghost specifically and Raaru coming back at the end, my interpritation is perhaps Sonia was "trapped" in the stone by Dorfs influence and was freed when Link delt the final blow and when she was released she was able to call Raaru to her momentarily for the single purpose of saving Zelda. Edit: on the dark night of the soul part, while Link did not have this moment I personally kinda did after getting about 70% of the main stuff done I was so dissapointed with the game I put it down for a few months and did not pick it up to finish it until a few days ago.
During my playthrough, I finished the dragon tears questline right after the first four dungeons and proceeded to get the master sword. Then, I stumbled into the final fight by accidentally falling into the hyrule castle chasm (and exploring a little) I feel like that might have been a more fulfilling experience than finishing the game the way it was intended
I think this is why I adore Baldur's Gate 3 so much. It's not a truly open world perse, as the game is divided into 3 distinct acts one can't backtrack on, so you feel like you really have to think about the choices you make before proceeding, and the surface of the maps themselves aren't 100% explorable, but at the same time it has a level of freedom regarding player choice and discovery that truly focuses on quality over quantity and I feel there isn't too much bloat regarding the items and ingredients you find in the game, unlike TotK. I think Larian knew what they were doing when they made it so there was a limited amount of space players could actually explore as it helps one stay focused on things that actually matter when traversing. And hell, just the fact that almost every NPC you interact with has fully-voiced dialogue and even a compelling backstory and developed personalities (for some more than others) makes it all the more immersive. And of course, IT ACTUALLY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT THE STORY AND LORE unlike the Shigeru Miyamoto-influenced mediocre narrative (or lack thereof) that they made with TotK. After having played and completed both TotK and BG3, I realize that huge expansive fully explorable open worlds mean shit when 90% of them are nothing but empty space where 90% of what you do is resource gathering. Hope to god that TotK doesn't win anything at the Game Awards, because it honestly doesn't deserve anything it's nominated for considering 90% of the game is recycled from BotW, even the music. Just the fact that I want to replay BG3 immediately after finishing it with a different character and choices and TotK made me not want to touch it again after finishing it the first time makes it obvious which one has the most replay value and is overall the better gaming experience.
AMAZING video you did an incredible job on this game. I think your proposed solution before made a lot of sense. In addition to Mineru; have the sages come together to save zelda in the main plot line as SHE IS A SAGE the game makes this EXTREMELY clear as Zelda in the temple of time gives you her sage power in the same way as everyone else. Then all they have to do for the ending is have zelda transform into a dragon again for magic reasons; make it a temporary form due to the stakes of the story basically. Maybe even Rauru could use his light power to enable her dragon form temporarily. The only problem is that the big climax of saving zelda would happen earlier and they would need a different final climax but I don’t know what could have been as impactful
Dude i completely forgot Navi existed until you mentioned her 😭💀 they really should bring her back. Then again ive never played a zelda game. I just think the tinkerbell type of character is fun
While I don't hold to every point made in this and the videos previous video, I highly agree that the lack of linear story telling absolutely wrecked the delivery of the narrative. the memories and everything just didn't connect substantially with the gameplay, and the regional phenomenon felt like the same plot point rather than a developing revealing story. As time goes by I long for more linear storytelling in games over the open world.
"IN NARUTO..." I chuckle. "MIPHA'S DEAD EVERYBODY" laughing out loud. all jokes aside though, I agree that Tears's storytelling is flawed on multiple accounts. I enjoyed the game, but I had some problems with it, and my biggest problems were with the storytelling.
I don't really care about the story at the finals of ganondorf im just here for the gameplay which is kinda... Dissapointing you know all they did on the sky was adding copies of copies and its just not alot of islands and the depths is just an inverted map of the "surface"
I've just watched the three TOTK videos, and it was brilliant. The depth (aha!) and meticulousness of your analysis is amazing. Buuuuuut, as much as I agree with a lot, if not all of it, I do have a small nuance, or at least a different point of view, to add to the Dragon Tears Quest. I completed it quite early in my gameplay, somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd Sage, and I also made the mistake of grabbing the Master Sword BEFORE finishing the Tears' Quest (but I had such a hard time getting to the Light Dragon, once I got there there was no way I was leaving without the sword). So, not the most ideal and logical way of discovering the climax of this quest. BUT, while Link and the NPCs don't seem to process this grief, I, the player, was absolutely devastated, like ugly crying with the box of tissues. And I really think it fueled the rest of my game time: getting to the other Sages and diving into the Depths to kick the ass of the Hot Bad Guy who messed with my world and my girl. Sure, in terms of pure story telling and grief inside the story, I do get that it is a bit clumsy, and that it lacked of coherence. But , at least on my own individual experience, it broke the frontier between the game and the player, and the grief and anger the characters seemed to lack, I was filled with it. BUT! It is my very own individual experience, and in no way a universal truth. Amazing job on your videos, I look forward to see what you will do next!
I actually really enjoyed the mysterious and dark feeling of the game. Of course some things are a bit repetitive but the fantasy element was absolutely at its peak throughout. My only concern was that there was a missed opportunity to make the map bigger and have transport as a better experience. Ie. Distant islands, quest to transport someone across hyrule, higher sky islands etc.
I know I'm hella late, but on Zelda's dragon form and the force ghosts, I think I have at least some answers. in botw, we saw all the sages and the king as force ghosts who were still around. the sages were trapped in their divine beasts, and once free hung around the castle to see the end. the king somehow manifested a physical body to talk to Link before devolving back into a ghost and then vanishing with the sages at the end. that to me is far more wtf than Rauru coming back at the end, or Sonia suddenly being a force ghost. if being a force ghost basically comes from having powers, being the blood of the goddess, or just having unfinished business (or a combo, since the dead hylian soldiers become poes and faceless ghosts in the depths instead) then Sonia being around would make sense. as well, I kinda figured while playing that like Ganondorf, Rauru wasn't actually dead. he still lived, in what was left of his arm, and he still resided in it until the final moment and only manifested himself as a ghost to properly talk to Link, until the very end when his body (the arm) was able to fully let go and he could pass on with Sonia. and for dragon Zelda, I think the point was more subtle. ie, Mineru is wrong about what it means to become a dragon. if you look at Zelda's behaviors, she's not mindless. yes, she aimlessly wanders the sky, but that's not mindlessness. I mean, what else is an immortal dragon supposed to spend their time doing? but when you look at what Zelda does outside of that, it's all very mindful. she keeps herself around the sky island until Link is ready to leave, not just passing through the cloud barrier, but destroying it, right on time. she intentionally cried her memories so that her story could be reachable by Link, and watched him collect them, then leaving the last one just as he collects "the last one", as if she was watching him and knew when he would be ready to learn the truth. when she breaks the barrier, he collects the sword, and gives him her save power, she's communicating with him in real time. and I don't think any of that is purely for cinematic affect or a gameplay need (like to ensure the player doesn't beeline right for the final tear and get the Big Spoiler without any context) though they do play a part. but in-universe, I think it's telling us she's still in there. and she certainly seems to still be in there in the fight, as she sees the Ganon dragon exit the castle and is able to track Link in the air in order to catch him and place him right where he needs to be. like, look me in the eye and tell me she was a mindless beast with no idea what was going on or who anyone was in that fight. you can't. even Ganon seemed to still have his mind as he specifically aimed at and tried to kill both Link and Zelda. and him grabbing Link and keeping him between his teeth as he rose from the cavern didn't exactly seem accidental ether. and I think that right there was the hint that what else Mineru thought she knew about that act was wrong. hence Zelda being able to return (which she had to do, or no future game can happen bc she has to have children. their only other option was to really make it canon and give them a child only for Zelda to never be able to raise said child due to being a dragon and oh my god *the pain* ), but ONLY because of her own power, the power to turn back time. Sonia explains it as "remembering how something once was, and gently coaxing it back there". Zelda could only return because there were people who knew her as she was before, and therefor had an end point to coax her back to. where as the other 3, implied to have once been Zonai and where this act was learned, cannot return because no one remembers who they once were, so no amount of strength in time power can coax them back to a past forgotten. for them, it truly is irreversible. so in a way, Mineru isn't entirely wrong. she just wasn't 100% right. I do 100% agree with the frustration over Zelda's reaction when she woke up tho, but I think that's due to Japan's views on PDA. for much of Asia, big shows of romantic affection is a big no-no, which bothers many younger people frustrated over their own parents' inability to just say "I love you", or who never want to give them a hug but try to show they love their kids in round about ways that are always subtle. for example, there's a big Japanese-American interracial couple on yt where the Japanese side has said in his opinion, the Japanese phrase for "I love you" is simply too intense, too much, and is something that should only be uttered on one's deathbed, instead preferring a phrase that translates more to "I like you". I imagine nintendo's avoiding the big emotion there was more in line with this idea, not wanting to make them mushy and gushy and emotional and make the Japanese audience uncomfortable. at least until I remember the scene in botw before Link "dies" and Zelda awakens her power, when she trips and then falls crying into Link's arms, the weight of them losing the fight and all of their friends sending her to pieces. for a game with a plot that made most players ugly cry, the fact that neither Link or Zelda ever *really* show a big emotion over winning (though Link does smile when Zelda says "loving embrace" if you use a free camera mod to look at their faces, which weirdly implies they originally intended to actually give this scene more emotion, only to cut it and not bother removing the animation) or the realization that Zelda is the dragon is such a weird choice, esp from the director of skyward sword, a game where Link was FULL of facial expressions and big body language, especially when his Zelda was sealing herself away. she didn't even die and yet he showed more pain in his face than our Link did seeing Zelda "died". arguably, this Link and Zelda should be the most traumatized out of all of them(or at least right up there), yet you almost never actually get to see it. which again, I feel like the only time we actually got to see it was when Zelda fell to pieces in Link's arms in botw. and it's bullshit to say nintendo would never go there, or they did it to keep the E rating. while pokemon is under a different developer, their Legends: Arceus game is literally a commentary on Japan's colonization of the Ainu people, leading to their genocide, very much akin to America's colonization of indigenous Americans. the world is filled with characters who appropriated the culture of a lost people while claiming to be the original, rightful owners of that culture all while very clearly not actually understanding it, and there's a whole salem witch trial plot where you too are left for dead in the harsh wilderness for the crime of being suspicious, essentially. you even get a "everyone staring at you dead man walking out of the settlement" moment while the other main characters basically morn the loss of you before you're even dead. on top of that, one of the brand new pokemon they made for that game is effectively the vengeful spirit of the Ainu who were murdered or left to die to the elements, wildlife, and horrific illness for the crime of refusing to bend the knee to the new Emperor. this is represented in Zorua and Zoroark, pokemon capable of creating illusions, who were kicked out for being spooky and therefor monsters. which is much like the Ainu, who's religion was turned on them, and modern Japanese scholars are looking into how much of Japan's yokai culture is actually just the colonizing Japan's propaganda of painting the Ainu as literal monsters to justify their genocide to the public. like, that's insane. gamefreak basically called out the entire Japanese government over their war crimes and still kept their E rating, and nintendo published it. they have no excuse to not go there for totk.
I am completely indifferent to link x zelda, unfortunately, especially in this game due to their minimal interactions, but your live reactions from 8:18 to 8:42 where so cute it was contagious. ^^ Imagening link thinking those things during battle is so sweet. :]
I wanted to point out the whole Link's arm and Zelda coming back not being too farfetched. I think you are absolutely right about the secret stones holding the soul in some form, but I think once Ganondorf was defeated, it released the soul from the stone. Then with her time powers, she released Raru's soul from the stone in Link's arm while also simultaneously turning the "bad arm" back into a good one. Now you have both their sould released, and able to use their powers together on Zelda to bring her back in time before she ate the stone (woth Raru only giving Sonia spiritual strength since her power was already used once on Link's arm). After using all that, their souls now didn't have anymore juice, were happy, and able to go to the spirit realm. What do you think?
Obviously, this video is for people who beat the game but would you make a suggestion for those who haven't experienced the story? I agree it's disappointing that most NPCs don't acknowledge the dragon tears story and those that do don't do anything with it. Simple solution. Don't watch the memories until after you complete the find Zelda and investigate the phenomena quests. You don't know for sure that fake Zelda is fake, so it makes sense that the NPCs don't acknowledge where the real Zelda is. Even though making the memories unaccessable until after certain checkpoints would go against the sandbox formula, I think Nintendo should have done that to save the story. When I was doing the Yunobo of the Gorons quest, after freeing Yunobo, I dropped everything to run after the light dragon because I needed her scales and stuff. Yunobo kept saying "Link, where are you going? We should be going to Zelda" and I kept yelling at the screen "but I am going to Zelda! Yunobo, you ignorant idiot!"
I don´t think Sonias appearance at the end is that crazy. I believe that "spirit presence" is not about being a zonai or not, but more about having unfinishied bussiness in the living realm. Like when King Rhoam shows up to guide link into saving zelda (there are many examples of this in TLOZ, like the queen zora in TP) So eve tho i agree with you in a lot of things, maybe this could be another perspective you can take.
This is really sad because even if you didn't get spoiled by your comments in the video about an unfinished game you didn't think of twice of completing, you would have still gotten the same result in the story. Pretty lackluster solution to Zelda being a dragon
I mostly agree with what you said, but I’m thinking the destruction of the secret stone Ganondorf had Sonia’s force ghost captive. She was the one with time powers so the rewind atleast makes sense since that at least was set up. Rauru showing up was weird, and its definitely not super satisfying.
I loved every second of this game, but every time the story was brought up i had an uneasy feeling. It was weird how little of botw was brought up and the story had so many open points that i just couldn't immerse myself.
it didn't occur to me until watching this but I do think it makes sense to factor the zillions of years ganondorf spent locked in place into his motivations. that's a lot of time to let anger and spite fester
Dangit duck, how you gonna drag that beautiful alternative in front of me. Building rapor with gdorf in tears related time travel segments leading to the final fight would have been so amazing. But that would have required them to make a plan to follow instead of making the entire game optional
watching your essay made me think it'd be interesting to compare the narrative aspect of the 2 best openwold games, TotK and Elden Ring, regarding the content rating. Elden Ring has obscure storytelling and seems it doesn't care if I entirely miss out the narrative or character arc. But it manages to funnel down into a linear story once I beat Morgott and leaves an irreversible impact with a burnt Erdtree after fire giant. It is allowed to conclude the story with bitterness complying to the grim lore as well. Whereas in TotK the game feels like it wants me to follow every storyline, but at the same time hates to influence my decision and keeps everything scattered till the end, but still wants me to see the happy ending. Probably the two different decisions were made on an executive level due to different age group of their target audience - basically the identity of the company.
Not trying to make excuses for NOA/E's predictably lackluster localization, but rauru didn't claim to be a god, the zonai were around before, gdorf mentions this as a past event that rauru still benefits from. You also apparently forgot the entire first 15 minutes, because gdorf's speech is only after link utterly failed to give him more than a cut. That said, I hope they prepared gdorf's world tour, because the other games hint that he tried to find allies against the king. I assume that was what the sage cutscenes were meant to be and perhaps were what was cut from the game before launch. And the behavior link and Zelda exhibit towards each other is only a problem because you assume that the hateno house is evidence they are having sex. When you look at what is actually canon, and into the inspirations for the setting, you'll see that they are at most courting, and that means physical affection is going to be hard to find, and whats proper is the rule of law. Considering that innocence is required to even see a dragon, and that cross cultures that translates almost exclusively to sexual innocence, it makes total sense that link and Zelda cannot be even remotely intimate for fear they are unable to perform their duties. This was always the tragic undertone in the games (however few) where link and Zelda could have made a couple, that they simply cant do it because they have their own responsibilities. Totk actually sets up the only scenario where all their restrictions have been removed, and may finally find some peace.
The emotional story beats around Zelda didn't land on me because neither botw or totk gave me time to get to know zelda in a way that would've felt believable. I grow fond of characters if i get to explore and experience with them in real time. In botw we're only TOLD thru memories that yes you were close with Zelda. Me as a player didn't get to grow attached to her thru gameplay. The same thing with totk, zelda is absent from gameplay and the player's own experience. It's different to be told than to actively get to know character for yourself. This is why i feel more emotional connection to many random npcs in totk than with Zelda...😅 i would've also loved if the sacrifices meant something and the characters had actual consequences...the overly happy ending didn't feel deserved.
To be fair we did see in breath of the wild spirits of the champions still able to do powers and such so its not a far stretch for Sonia to be there. The only thing thats questionable is how shes still able to use her power as well as rauru seeing as both of them dont have their secret stone
I'll be honest, I don't agree with a lot of what you said. It seems like you're just nitpicking things, your whole complaint about the ending being retconned just does not work for me.
I enjoyed the story. I think some more structure would be appreciated and it isn’t the best Zelda story but it’s still really good and the ending is my favourite Zelda ending, I don’t care if it’s a retcon, as I felt as though they really did kill off Zelda but I was super relieved she was saved
@9:45 originally sakura was meant to be with Naruto but according tp the mangaka the backlash towards her and the fact his wife who sakura was based on liked Hinata more caused him to change during shippuden.
@11:04 the amount of hate i've seen for this "semi-canon" ship is ridiculous. like its basically confirmed in game link and zelda are together. from in game dialog to dairy's from zelda, to link sleeping in a bed he doesn't own in their house and i just find it funny people cannon separate their head canons from in-game facts.
@16:29 yeah thats neat and all but one problem with this theory. retcons can only happen AFTER a story or game has been released. to my knowledge zelda:totk has no retcons.
I wanted to love Tears of the Kingdom. Even with 250 hours put into it, I still haven't reached the final boss. My little crow mind love collecting things in games, and there's so damn much in Totk. I balanced exploration, regional phenomena, the yiga side quest and the dragon's tears. In the end it just got exhausting, almost like grinding and the longer it went the less I cared about the story. Fun things spread throughout what feels like excessive padding. The Gerudo region was definitely the most fun part of the game for me though. A freaking zombie apocalypse, the desolating eerie atmosphere, the creepy redead designs and the gerudo hiding underground as their last stronghold. It's dungeon is a nice reference to OoT's Spirit Temple, but that's all it really is. A reference. The sacred beasts worked since it's small scale made it feel like you're inside a rubric's cube and the atmosphere have the champion's lingering sorrow to it. The temples in Totk though? Boring. It feels like they tried to implement the sacred beast gimmick into a temple and fell flat in execution.
Just gonna posit this: I don't think Link is the protagonist in the game. He was simultaneously sidelined by Zelda while also doing too little with her. In past games, it's the protagonist, Link, who travels back in time, allowing the changes to be made by the player. But because they wanted to keep a "memory" gimmick, they wound up robbing the player of agency. You PASSIVELY experience the most interesting aspects of the story. Time travel is in skyward sword, ocarina, majora, a link to the past, the Oracle series; and what Nintendo failed to realize is that what made those special is getting to watch the world change based on the actions of the player. That's why I think the story telling beats you list fall flat
Firstly, I'm stoked I found your channel as I love long form reviews/retrospectives and your content is hot. I'd date your videos. Secondly, Gannondorfs design in TOTK is great, and your idea of fighting him in past timelines would've been shit hot. Especially if link did that whole walk around with him explaining why the things are the way they are. Meh either way, the game is great. Bloated, full of filler, but hey it runs on a toaster. Which is an amazing achievement in itself. Anyway, thanks for this, I've subbed and look forward to more. GG and much love from Australia.
I haven't played Totk yet and you warned that you are gonna discuss the endings so i am not gonna watch it now, but i love your content and I just want to say thanks
You know for all the hate I’ve gotten on some of my shorts for “not spoiler warning” this comment is refreshing 😂 I hope to see you back here when your adventure concludes!
38:10 true, and I think this entry is worthy of Game of the Year, but the story could have been So Much More. Twilight princess holds my affection dearly, due to showing the relation between midna and link
Yet another excellent video! Thank you so much for talking about this. I haven't seen much critique for this game and I too have some issues with it. I completely agree that they should have fleshed out Ganondorf more. It seemed like he didn't really have any motives other than "cause he's evil" which was disappointing. It would have been much more impactful story-wise if we were given an insight as to why Ganon thinks/acts the way he does. Overall I seemed to enjoy the gameplay more than the actual story, which was Nintendo's intention, so I can't really complain much. It was certainly an exciting journey, albeit one that I wished to see more of. Same 11:20 Ps 0/10 cant pet dogs well maybe 5/10 cause zelink is teased (confirmed?)
My only nitpick with this whole video is you being confused by the appearance of Sonya's Ghost, I mean this is Zelda, there are ghosts all over the place in this series. Other than that though, this is easily the best critique of the story I've seen. Great job!
