I am a physical therapist, this video changed my practice when treating my chronic pain patients from ineffective to effective... I have been watching all videos about chronic pain, talking courses, studying, taking classes by the NOI Group for the last 5 years and I have changed my practice completely. Thanks Mossley et. al. through your hard work and dedication to teaching the information I have helped a lot of folks in New Mexico!
A lot of people with chronic pain don't take Aspirin, rather they are on opiods which don't act on your body, but depress activation in the central nervous system. In essence dulling the brains perception of pain. If you want to convince the mind there is no pain, a lot of research has indicated that by slowly increasing exposure to a very slightly painful movement a lot of times every day will help the brain realize, hey, this actually doesn't hurt. Then you continually move on.
What an excellent explanation of pain messages! It is a pity that it ended so quickly and the description of how chronic pain is different from acute pain was so brief. In reality the chronic pain as a message that persists can also be dealt with by our mind, using a simple brain bargaining technique - a way of explaining to our own self that the message is no longer needed...!
@@erow80 Book "the way out", the app "curable" and their workshops and groups, Moseleys own books, "tell me about your pain" podcast, anything by howard schubiner, pain reprocessing therapy. Much more.
I have half a kidney left, with two new tumous after having 5 tumouts removed. I actually don't think my pain is in my head and I would like to see what your pain video would look like after having the same thing. It is so frustrating when "experts" have all tbe answers for what they are not experiencing and just because they have read a book
I'd like to stomp on his foot and have him look me in the eye while saying pain is illusionary. He sets off quack vibes for me. Best of luck with your health care
I’m seeing wayyyy too many “this video changed my life for the better comments” I’m so glad I found someone with the same train of thought as me. I went into this video being very open minded and I completely disagree with a majority of what this speaker is saying. I believe if you are going to put something on the internet that’s “informative” also be ready to be challenged. I agree with you @FLEJ, just because he’s read a book and is featured on Ted talk doesn’t mean anything.
@@ClaudetteMissyou misinterpret his words. He never said that pain is illusionary. He says is very real. And he talks about chronic pain, which lasts long after the tissue damage happened.
A question about the scientific method involved.. just because they showed pain can be manufactured by the brain but how does that imply that pain is *only and always* manufactured by the brain and has *not much* to do with tissues?
I often refer to this video when explaining chronic pain to clients. I then use hypnotherapy to take them out of pain, if it is appropriate to do so. There are numerous ways to affect the brain's production of pain that work well once the concept is understood. I find Freddy Jacquin's Arrow Technique to be so effective that I use it in public demonstrations. It has worked every time so far.
@@chrishoare4408 This theory that the video maker talks about and all the doctors and PT's who are buying into it and implementing it in their practice, and putting forth a wildly incomplete picture of chronic pain. It totally ignores the many conditions that are degenerative in nature, like arthritis, osteoporosis, tendinosis where there are permanent, structural changes to the tissue. Tendons fraying, joints narrowing, cartilage disintegrating. This hurts and it hurts long term. It's not the brain "tricking" the body after the injury has "healed." The injury is still there. And then someone goes and gets surgery and feels better because the TISSUE has been REPLACED. To believe this crackpot theory one has to then by extension believe the benefits of all these surgeries are placebo, which is idiotic.
Have you ever suffered from chronic pain? I very much doubt you have. It's not something in your head that you can magically take away. I've been to way too many doctors who say deep breathing is the answer. Or I can transfer to somewhere else on my body. Here's a good one " Go to your happy place, empty your mind, and let the pain roll off of your body like water off a ducks back." What I would like is a so-called spend even 5 minutes in my body, then you can tell me what works and what doesn't work. These people in the crowd can laugh, and the speaker can laugh all he wants. These are real people you are talking about
I broke my leg years ago clean through. I didn't know it was broken and walked around all day til I got xrays. It was painful, but no where near as bad as my back pain which shows no abnormalities on xrays and mri's. How can this be??
When it comes to the back 99 % of the time there is a cause most of it mechanical there fore if you are triggering that daily the pain will continue to ramp up until tissue is sensitized, the pain is NOT IN YOUR HEAD. Read back mechanic by Stuart Mcgill
Get the book "Explain pain", by Moseley and Butler, it gives you tips as above and explains the physiology of pain; it's interesting and also empowering. You own your pain and you have the power to get rid of it. As the authors point out: "knowledge and movement are the stress and pain liberators". I remind myself of that every time I experience pain.
I'm not sure what to make of this presentation. I agree but also disagree to some of your point. Yes, Stressor/sensor when hits the skin is then sent as a message to the brain and gets interpreted as pain. And ones a brain recognizes something that could be potentially painful even without really experiencing pain and having the stimulus, the sight of an object or action can be interpreted by brain as own real pain. Had you scratched your leg with a twig before getting beaten by a snake you would have acted accordingly with that snake bite even without seeing the snake that bit you. Perhaps you would have quickly applied first aid on the area. If that incident was actually the other way around.. your perception of pain might be different now. But you are right that pain is a guide to tell us something is wrong with our body. But pain is real. Pain is subjective. Pain tolerance is another subject again. Mind over matter only works with nerve pain temporarily for a short period of time. Im lost and I really dont know what your objective was with this presentation. Coz some parts of your talk was saying that pain can be perceive as real even without touching the skin. Like your arm example. Of course the brain is going to perceive that it would be painful knowing that that act would be painful. But ask the person if he/she was actually in pain then they might stop and think...which thinking could interrupt the pain message being sent as pain and the person now seeing the reality.. that he/she did not actually got hurt so the brain now stops telling its self that message. Now tell me how are you going to convince me that pain isn't real?
I believe pain is the only reason we "move". It's the prime mover, it's the sole reason we do anything. Even to seek pleasure or happiness is because of the discomfort (pain) caused by the abscence of it. Also, soul is not a seperate entity or mechanism. Soul doesn't occupy space, and does not have causal efficacy. It simply emerges and is inherent in your physical brain and body.
No way soul is a independent being as in you. Pain is negative" anti life energy made by scaler interference enough pain will disconnect soul connection from the matter mind. That's why pain takes concentration to maintain life stop concentrating on finding the pain and you die especially if the pain lasts for days weeks or months believe me I know I've experienced pain for over years at a time.
If there was no discomfort/pain/defect in you for any given moment, would you ever move, act or think? Isn't every single thought you have, or reason to move/act is because you want to be in a better state than the one you are before? Tell me one exception to this general rule, if you can think of. If there was not a state of *non-equilibrium* in any system, would there be any reason for it to move towards a state of *equilibrium*? Hence, pain (defect, instability, non-equilibrium) is the prime mover of this life. This belief you can also find in the oldest religions of the world, and it is logical. Hence, life, and the creator of it is evil. If you think it is good, then you are evil, too, for this reason you will be punished after-life. Life is evil, therefor you should be good, and against it.
I find myself worn thin from extreme pain and it's opposite years and decades of both but I would be dead now if I had not found relief from both I actually look forward to pain and then relief but each cycle takes from me. A little life my connection to this reality one day I won't find the energy or desire to return here. And after many years of being dead I may have what it takes to return. I remember my first thought after being born it was clean clear and welcomed.
I thought pain was the brain's recognition of a nerve signal that means some damage has or is about to occur. Just an automatic self preservation response. If we do not recognize the signal as being unpleasant, we will not respond to the stimulus appropriately and will become damaged, which may in turn affect our chances of survival and passing on our genetic code. Just as unicellular organisms respond to stimuli for self preservation. If you lack the adequate response mechanism, you might die.
It depends on the situation. Many instances of chronic pain are because of a previous injury which caused pain for a long time, therefore training the brain to think that you are still injured or that it the pain is supposed to be there. In other words, it can be a combination of both.
Gaslighting quackery. Complete disrespect to people suffering from degenerative issues like arthritis or tendinosis, where there are chronic, degenerative changes to tissue. You can't simply think it away if it's not healthy tissue. Shame on anyone pushing this on people who are really suffering.
Wow, this dude is so FOS.Inflammation causes pain. Pain is not a neutral stimulus to the brain. If it was, why would it be experienced across all cultures , ethnicities, and even across all species? This guy is a nut.
Interesting talk...But no solutions offered as to how to change the perception of pain in your brain? This is just Not just a One Time Vdeo. Sounds like you have to see Many of his Videos, Read a Variety of Several Books And Follow Ted...
Hey Katherine would you be able to reccomend any good books ? I'm embarking on a road to hopeful recovery. Have had chronic pain for a few years now. Would be great to get my life back. Or at least be out of pain.
@@Katherine.2024. Yes, I just finished reading one of Sarno's books. So happy you are turning your life around. I am currently watching a video series by a couple who explains Sarno's ideas a little more in depth. I appreciate the other names and will research them as well.
Look into Adriaan Louw as well. There is a lot of amazing research out there. The more you learn and understand how pain works the less control over your life it has. Safe journeys to everyone.
He is 100% correct, however, as others have pointed out, this evidence - that pain is only in your head - can have a negative effect in the mindset of those not suffering with pain. Non-sufferers tend to dismiss the agony of the sufferer with statements and notions such as, 'Just change your way of thinking' 'think it away' etc. We can see examples of this in the comments right here, below, let alone in one's daily life. True, pain is in the head. But so is the pain of hunger- not your stomach, but in your head. So is the pain of fatigue, exhaustion, sleep deprivation. All these are 'in the head'. Yet, can any of us 'think these away'? Even if we could, would it be a good idea for our well being and survival for us to do so? I think not. Cheers from Tokyo.
You might be able to psyche out pain if you have the will power and strength to do so. However , people who are chronic , DO NOT have the ability to use re-education of neuro pathways to pretend , like there is no pain. Plasticity , takes years and years to take effect . Opioid meds , are on earth , for just that exact reason. It is so unfortunate , that those people in chronic pain , are being denied opioid treatments , because of drug abuse by people who are NOT in physical pain and the industries vacillation on the legitimacy of the use of opioids.
The research does show that there are problems in the tissue but the pain signals are oversensitized. he mentions this at the beginning when he states that pain is from the tissue and in the brain.
I didn't see the speaker mention the idea of "thinking" the pain away at any point. In fact, he said there is something that can be done about it, but that would be saved for another lecture. The brain seems to tell me to eat and sleep respectively when I feel those types of pain. If your brain hasn't been introduced to the idea of what is actually causing your pain, then you can get trapped in the illusion that something is still physically wrong in your tissues, when in reality the issue is an overly sensitized nervous system. So no, it wouldn't be good to eliminate pain or we wouldn't survive, but working to reduce the chronic sensation of pain absolutely is a good idea.
Lorimer is not saying that the pain is in your head. He is saying that pain is created in the brain. Chronic pain sufferers do not imagine their pain, it's real. However, the vast majority of chronic pain is created by corrupt neural pathways. And yes, you can correct these pathways with training. Have a look at videos of Dr Howard Schubiner or Dr John Stracks.
The epitomy of irony. Pain is supposed to be a protection. And yet it becomes the thing that makes life unbearable at times. I say this as a Fibromyalgia sufferer.
Thank you so much for the clip. Got informed about it by somebody i just met. Just had surgery 1 month ago and in extreme pain, not from surgery, but the inflammation which caused the swelling. I always assumed the injured body part sends the pain signal to your brain, and must admit only recently started to wonder how painkillers works. This was a HUGE eye opener and gives me something to work with to manage the pain I experience. I now have to figure out how to over-rule my brain and inform it, that I do not experience as extreme pain as it makes me believe currently. Must say this does not cover why people with amputations feel itch or pain in missing limbs. But at least I now know, I can learn to control my mind to associate the correct amount of pain to my situation.
The answer is - you must keep on moving your body despite your pain to show your mind that your body is fine and the pain isnt useful anymore. And when pain comes you have to brush it off as it is nothing even if it comes with full force and many times... with time your pain should subside or even disapear. I have a friend who was diagnosed with 12 Chronic pain conditions that were incurable for the doctors. He couldnt leave his bed, he couldnt talk, shave or lift anything heavier than a fork. He did this and after a few months his body made a full recovery and he got completely functional and painless WITHOUT any medication! I would have said it was bull if I had not seen him myself.
What I’d like to know is how many of these pain experts actually live with chronic pain daily and wish their pain away by telling themselves it’s all in their head? The pain is real it’s not in the head or manifested from fear of being in pain - think pain therefore you have pain. Okay change cognitive behaviour but these experts need to realise pain is bloody real! Bit like a midwife telling you having a baby doesn’t hurt when they’ve never had a baby!
xrays and mri's are only pictures at a moment in time and are best to show bigger structural abnormalities. They don't show the nervous system lighting up every time a movement irritates soft tissue or in chronic pain, lighting up because that movement used to hurt and the body has sensitized itself to make you think it will hurt as a protective mechanism. By protecting a part of your body and not moving it for long periods of time has been shown to be very counter productive for healing.
As someone who has lived with a headache for five years now, I want to believe this SO much. There is truly nothing physiologically wrong with me, but my pain receptors are just having one big party in there shooting off like it's the fourth of July in Texas and they are on a weekend bender! No medication touches it, and it has impacted my life quite a bit (although not to the point where I let it stop me from doing what I want to do). I hate it and I want it gone. I have to look up more of his stuff because F this pain. I am SO over it. I found him because I am participating in a chronic pain study and this was a suggested video.
Have you gone to physical therapy? I am in school becoming a doctor of physical therapy and we are taught to help with headaches after we find the source.
I have. In fact I went for almost a year after my brain hemorrhage. The massages helped with the muscular issues, but unfortunately my pain is neuropathic. I did just have a nerve ablation of the sphenopalatine ganglion nerve; specifically the one that relates to headaches, on the right side. I'm having the second procedure on the left side tomorrow. I am a huge believer in PT. It helped strengthen my gastroc/soleus when I had Plantar Fasciitis. No issues with it now and I run a lot! It killed me to drop from marathons to half marathons for almost a year!
I just had hip surgery and to imagine the sensations of pain I did feel before and now. My brain sensed it and helped me deal with it, but to say I didn't hurt is an understatement. I feel having undue stress in one's life will make pain feel worse. So meditation has been helpful. I have back issues but continue to workout and relax. Pain is real, it's how you deal with it in everyday life.
tell me how! I injured my back 9.5 years ago and still I can't bend like a normal person despite xrays being normal. I've had countless other injuries and broken bones, but they were childs play compared to my back trouble
The back is much more important than, say, the knee. This is because the spine is the body's central support structure, connecting bones and keeping us upright. In addition, spinal nerves carry most electrical signals from the brain to skeletal muscles and organs through the spinal cord and vise versa, also carrying sensory information like touch, pressure, cold, warmth, or pain in the same fashion. My suggestion would be to stretch daily, but do not over do it. Trust me, you will know if you over work your back. Work on posture and balance. Get a massage as the pain might not even be derived from not retraining your brain, (I worded that weirdly and it seemed kind of aggressive so I apologize for that) but the muscles or joints surrounding it. Hope this helps anyone who has the same question!
This fine & dandy but you can't just trick your brain that your muti-level herniated discs, pinching the nerves is nothing. Or that your bone on bone knee pain is not real. And those are just 2 examples. When will they start admitting that some people actually have REAL PAIN ?!
It's a lie. Propaganda they're teaching the young medical students today so as to dissuade them from using opioids by convincing them they don't actually work, and that the onus is on the patient to think the pain away. So when this quackery fails, all fault lies with the patient and they have to go elsewhere and just try harder.
How does this relate to chronic pain diseases - in any positive manner? Isn't his talk simply telling people who are in agonizing pain that they are making it up as they go, that the myelinated pathways even get better at sending pain signals and require less input over time? In this case, how is this talk different from the iatrogenic traps that doctors all around the world send their patients into? While this speaker made an effort to appear funny, I also believe that he didn't not think the ethical implications of this talk through. Making people laugh - oh and creating more confusion and harm for people with pain disorders - who are amongst the most likely to research and find this video. Terrible job.
I have chronic pain and I totally agree that the way I perceive my pain might be worse than the situation is actually worth. In that retrospect I remember having to get injections on a weekly basis and with every time the pain from the injection spreading through my body increased until I had to stop. What I want to know now ofc is how can I not feel the pain so much, especially when I know I shouldn't have pain right now and the pain comes more from my body trying to protect me from further damage to my joints? (ie: no visible signs of damage or swelling but still lingering pain due to having it experienced for too long in that spot)
I would suggest reading “The way Out” by Alan Gordon and Alon Ziv. It spells it out well and has a directory in the back to refer you to therapists in your area as well. It has changed my life. I am not totally pain free but WAY better and getting off all my narcotics. I’m learning how to stop the signals in their tracks. Good luck! Reach out if I can help more
I think this area of "Pain Science" is so amazing, however its so sad that so many dismiss it because they think it is cause for attacking those with chronic pain. I do agree he should preface it with a large bolded "This Pain is Real for those Experiencing it", because he did mention it, just very lightly. It becomes especially apparent in his story about himself, and how he experienced excruciating pain from an experience his brain recalled as traumatic, that was only a cut. This science can really help us add another means of helping those with pain, and help redesign some of our education to the general public, as he mentions on topics such as "slipped discs".
You're also correct though in another assumption; many TEDers don't question what they see simply because TED said it. Which is really quite a shame. I've been an extremely proud TEDer for years... There is a lot of crap on that site, no doubt. E.g. check out Charles Fleischer's (yes, the voice of Roger Rabbit) "Everything is Moleeds." I'm still not certain if it's shtick or not.
The short answer is there's simply no "catch all" treatment. He talks about this more in his longer lectures. There's one on the Musculoskeletal Australia channel called Pain, the brain and your amazing protectometer.
The Pain Antidote: The Proven Program to Help You Stop Suffering from Chronic Pain, Avoid Addiction to Painkillers--and Reclaim Your Life Paperback - May 26, 2015 by Mel Pohl and Katherine Ketcham. This book also covers what Moseley tells us about pain and I guess how to trick or retrain the brain... I have not actually read it, but I was helping a fellow student with the referencing side of a psychology assignment and came across it.
Yeah ok then so this is all really good in terms of explaining why we feel pain and why/how it is produced but how do you combat the pain, just tell yourself "oh this is all in my head, go away pain, you're not real'? I'm a longterm sufferer of midcarpal instability, CRPS, thoracic outlet syndrome so subsequently suffer from incredible pain on a daily basis. Surgery hasn't worked and I have had over 7 operations and medication doesn't work either so just do something to stop the fucking pain!!
Brody Cross he (more or less) says at the end that they're still trying to find the best way of dealing with chronic pain but otherwise he is 100%. You CANNOT feel pain without a healthy and functioning nervous system. I could take an axe to a quadriplegic's thigh and he wouldn't feel a thing. I'm still damaging tissue so if Lorimer's words were incorrect this person should still feel pain (but they don't obviously)
Go and see a qualified physiotherapist! They should be able to change your pain with hands on techniques for some short term relief but overall they will be able to prescribe exercise, active management strategies you can do at home to get rid of your problem. There is definitely help with graded exposure to exercises specific to improving your problem! :)
@@johansdkjohanson4120 I don't think you understand the level of pain that is being talked about here. Go see a physio is totally missing how severe and complex chronic pain of this nature is
@@astreetpt3591 agreed physio can be great when you find the right one for you they can be really excellent but to just say "go see a physio" in a flippant manner like that is clearly missing the whole chronic pain being a complex problem idea
Pain is quite possibly the ONLY thing that’s real. Disagree? Break 5 ribs, shatter your collarbone to pieces and puncture your lung. Then lay on the couch for 4 days unable to breathe because an incompetent doctor believed that 2 Panadol would be fine. Then tell me pain isn’t real. As a footnote. I know what you are saying, I’m being facetious. Like you were in your comment.
Pain can occur with or without actual trauma. We always receive signals through our 5 senses, pain is just one of the outputs, like hunger, sleepiness, etc. Pain is your brain's 'opinion' of what is happening, and your brain is not always necessarily correct, just like in optical illusions. Pain is an output, not an input.
Funny and informative about the neuro biology of pain, but I agree with others it's mainly useful for understanding acute pain. I have been attending pain management and education classes for the last 8 weeks and it's done little to improve my perception of my chronic pelvic pain / prostatitis
like you said this is about primary/acute pain, secundary pain is something totally different which doesn't even go to your brain. It goes to your spinal cord seperates substance P into the peripheral nervous system. This is usually where the chronic pain occures and thus make it more of an emotional/mental problem rather than phyiscally. Eventhough it still hurts physically.
So would you tell someone with Cancer that their pain isn't real & only a figment of their imagination? Responses like yours only shame people that are truly suffering.
It is taking (too much) time for this (relatively new) paradigm for pain to get accurately understood by all/most of the doctors who treat chronic pain patients, and conveyed accurately to pain patients, etc.
There is... you must keep on moving your body despite your pain to show your mind that your body is fine and the pain isnt useful anymore. And when pain comes you have to brush it off as it is nothing even if it comes with full force and many times... with time your pain should subside or even disapear
@@leora2455 if the pain comes from an existing abnormality, you cannot will it away. You can help to adjust your brain's perception of it, but unless I have surgery to relieve the pressure on my spinal cord from protruding disc material (no thank you), that pain will persist. Retraining the brain and it's perception of pain is real science (that I fully believe in btw), but there are conditions and abnormalities that create real pain that does not cease because you have "brushed it off".
@@amyhendricks3627 and yet so many have done it and do it everyday. Ive met so many people with bulging disks, degenerative disk diseases and even a few autoimune illnesses in which people got completely better after doing mindbody work (the work from that famous book: Mindbody Prescription), I had a friend with 12 diverse illnesses, some with an apparent visible cause who got better
@@amyhendricks3627 If you take middle aged people with NO BACK PAIN and give them MRI's, 60%-90% of them will have bulging discs, degenerative discs, arthritic chages, spinal stenosis and other common changes. If you gave 100 people WITH pain and 100 people WITHOUT pain MRI's, doctors would not be able to tell the difference when looking at the two stacks of MRI's. Doctors would not be able to tell which group was in pain and which group wasn't. Sarno called this exam findings "normal abnormalities". They are most likely not the source of your pain, but often innocent bystanders being blamed for your pain. Structurally caused chronic pain is quite rare.
Find a physiotherapist that specializes in working with people who suffer from chronic pain. They will help you a lot with your fear of re-injury so you can sustain your progress.
This exactly happened for me after I ruptured a disc in my back. Screaming pain now for everything after that injury. But what do I do now?? How can I reverse this?
I suffer from chronic pain, it stops me in my tracks now and then, as I broke 3 vertebrae (neck) and I am the proud owner of what is called a brachial plexus, which is groovy on the brain to say the least. The damage is in the spine, the pain manifests itself in the hand, and the inside of my thumb is hyper sensitive, which is an understatement. Over the years I have ignored most doctors who want to implant electronics in me or give me copiuose amounts of Oxycodine (fentanyl). I concentrated on my mind set, use a bit of pot, play golf and have imagined my own on and off switch in my head. What this means is instead of resisting waves of pain when they happen or take drugs, I allow it to happen, U submit to it, then it reseeds faster. When pain in my hand gets so bad it gets up my arm, into me neck and my right eye, I lay down for a bit, meditate and all is flowers in the garden. If I need total relief, which is basically, giving my body a break, I get stoned off my face and whatch comedy & of course, golf, which is way more funny when stoned..
In my treatment of back pain--some 10,000+ patients spanning three decades, I can say that most chronic back pain has both a physical and psychological cause. Let me explain: I am speaking here of back pain as a condition, not a disease. This means it is ultimately caused by some biomechanical dysfunction (keeping the psychological aspect aside forthe moment).The vast majority of people with chronic back pain have spinal joint dysfunction and muscular tension. These are the kinds of conditions most often seen by chiropractors, osteopaths, physical therapists, and massage therapists. I would add that medical doctors are generally not trained to evaluate spinal joint dysfunction. They may not know, for example, that the sacrum may be in pain because the atlas (first cervical vertebra) is misaligned and not moving properly at the other end of the spine. They would not know that treating the atlas can often remove all of the pain and even sciatica going on in the lumbar and pelvic regions. My point is that medical evaluation is not sufficient. There needs to be examination by other qualified professionals in the case of chronic back pain. My other point is that adjusting the spinal joints and releasing accompanying muscular hypertonicity (tension) often gets rid of the pain. Except when.... There is a patient like this one I had. Complaining of low-back pain, unable to bend forward more than about 45 degrees, result of a work-related injury. Treated with spinal joint and sacroiliac mobilization and massage, straightening his spine considerably. Arises from the table. Asked to bend forward and can now touch his toes. Asked the pain is now, his eyes glaze slightly and he says, "The same, no different." I say, "But you can touch your toes now." I press on his sacroiliac which had been painful on pressure half an hour earlier. He says there is no pain there anymore--and looks confused. What happened? Function was restored. Pain on palpation was gone. Where was this patient's pain? Was he lying? Malingering? I learned in that moment of his eyes glazing over that he was reporting on pain from THE PAST, not the present! He actually believed that he still hurt, even though pressing the previously painful places did not hurt, according to him. Pain in THE PRESENT did not exist. Pain from THE PAST was being perceived--mis-perceived--as taking place in the present. It was "recorded pain," not pain "live and direct." The memory of pain. This does not make past pain that seems to be present pain any less real. But it does have to be clearly distinguished from present, palpable pain. And it does have to be treated differently. However--and this is my point too--the biomechanical causes of pain--the misaligned spinal joints and excess muscle tension--have to be removed in order to 1) find out whether there is any other source of pain than purely physical/biomechanical, and 2) when there is, to treat past pain in the brain with other therapies than the purely physical. And all this requires making a full physical biomechanical assessment, and that is best done by professionals with that kind of training.
Thank you David Dressler, for introducing this concept of the mind/consciousness/psychological aspects. Bums me out a little to think that most people are not taking it into consideration here. What if we ask the question, "who would you be without your pain?" What would they say? Could we/they comprehend a life without it? And if not, why? Sincerely curious.
don't really get what you talked about. maybe you talked about exposure training, but well, every one has opinions, my advice would be: keep opened mind, learn some (pain) science. Pain is constructed in brain, it doesn't always reflect state of tissue. Chronic pain is less about physical, biomechanical, structural...more about neural sensitivity.
Nitpicking here, but is it not dangerous to state that pain is an illusion? To clarify, I would say the shadow trick in this video is an illusion, however sight is not an illusion. Therefore I could agree that specific cases such as phantom limb pain and chronic pain could be described pain illusions but pain generally is not. My concern is jumping the gun and telling patients their pain is an illusion is not helpful.
you concern is not unreasonable, that's the whole revolution he is advocating about at moment. The whole society needs to shift the beliefs. Illusion doesn't mean its unreal, your sight in vision is like nociception in pain.
I had chronic widespread joint, muscle, and nerve pain for years following a back injury. It put me out of work and school and doctors could not figure out what was wrong with me. When I spoke therapists who are part of the BodyInMind group along with Dr. Moseley, they told me that this situation is all too common. After working with physiotherapists who follow this approach, and subsequently recovering from the chronic pain through increasing exercise exposure, I am convinced that Dr. Moseley and his colleagues are leading the way in chronic pain treatment. Hopefully this reaches mainstream medical treatment. Motion is lotion!
@@alectambornini2257 you are so very kind!!! Thank you Alec. Do you think so? I experience full body burning nerve pain from crps. By physiotherapist you mean a physical therapist? Thank you 😊 ♥️
The brain is the master organ that processes pain signals from the body. The brain processes pain signals as sensations, emotions, and thoughts (not just a pure sensation). Thoughts and emotions can make the experience of pain much worse, or much more manageable. Thoughts and emotions directly influence the pain signals coming into the body. Now, does it work for everyone, of course not? People are weak when it comes to change. The brain becomes more sensitive to pain signals with chronic pain. This is why you might be more sensitive to pain signals than other people after living with pain for a long time. But you can learn ways to help lower the “pain thermostat” of the brain. Chronic pain is a chronic illness. Like diabetes, high blood pressure, or asthma, chronic pain needs long-term management, including lifestyle changes as well as medical treatment. IMHO...
I shot myself in the foot recently and funny enough, I didn't feel the pain because I didn't think I actually hit myself at first. Only when I saw the wound and blood and realized I got hit, that's when I started feeling the pain.
Perception has a massive influence on pain. I read in "Your Body, Only Better" that the same injury but in different situation can result in different pain sensations. This is a really interesting subject and shows just how much the brain can influence how much discomfort we feel.
This video has been life altering... Lorimer does an amazing job of animating/illustrating how the pain signal gets stuck and then I found the book "The Way Out" by Alan Gordon that outlines the author's journey out of chronic (unexplained) pain and an evidence-based treatment "Pain Reprocessing Therapy"... thank goodness for neuroscientists like Lorimer
All of these "think your pain away" gurus seem to me just opportunists. There will always be people in pain, many of them desperate for relief, desperate for a cure. I agree that for certain types of pain, your mind can ease it to varying degrees, but something like a toothache will continue to hurt no matter what you think. And chronic pain with no APPARENT cause can only be coped with, at best, because there's something either undetectably wrong with the tissues or something wrong with the body's overall mechanism.
Nunnuv Yorbizniz I’ve been to a couple of Moseley’s talks and spoken to him in person - not once has he ever suggested or insinuated that you can “think pain away”
@@gizanglyer5299 there's another video which has a lot of similar content where he goes into some treatment options including Q&A with some chronic pain sufferers. Vid is called Pain, the brain and your amazing protectometer on a channel called musculoskeletal Australia
Sorry I generally don't comment on what I call affectionately pain pep talks!! Lol... But I find it really amazing or my brain 🧠 finds it amazing?? That people who have never really suffered from long term chronic pain always have a mental reason why your in pain!! And try to convince you it's all in your head it doesn't hurt.. I would think you could just take these people lay them in front of you take a large very sharp samurai sword cut both of their hands off give them nothing of any anesthesia or anything and tell them it doesn't hurt it's in your mind this doesn't hurt !! ABSOLUTELY ABSURD!! ..let's just say I SUFFER FROM A SEVERED spinal cord!! 30 years ago .. ME!! whoops I said suffer and severed that's why I have been in pain for 30 years..I SHOULD HAVE SAID I HURT MY SPINAL CORD A LITTLE BIT MANY YEARS AGO.. IM CURED!!! IM CURED!!! IN YOUR NEURO TESTING YOU CONDUCT. If by chance you can remove my spine and yours and we switch them I think I would certainly be cured!! Hopefully you do not have a severed spinal cord injury?? Do you!!?? Thank you for a very informative talk...
This is fantastic!! Dr Lorimer Moseley - your research and delivery of this topic is at the top of its game. Definitely worth sharing for people who still have residual nerve pain after surgery. My husband went through a study at Prince of Wales Private Hospital this year (2016) called Resolve. This video was part of week 1 of training! If anyone is still having back pain after surgery and structurally everything is fine in the back - get enrolled into this clinical trial! My husband after 3 years of pain after his back surgery - is now pain free, skiing, running and throwing our daughter on his shoulders. I hope you guys get the same results. Thanks again Dr Moseley - really important work!!
Chelsea, I like your ambition but where nerve damage is concerned, there is no ideal treatment as I have found there are many different syptom sets but also nerves and mental attitudes and aptitude differ radically from person to person, so this guy sounds like a complete genious with certain patients, great for him and them but not all. Glad your circumstances were much improved though, bless you.
Placebo. The act of grabbing a pill or simply the act of doing something for yourself has the ability to regulate different chemicals within our own brains. Our brains are complex.
@@kaizersozé66 pain is purely a brain output. The body doesn't have pain pathways. Must look into the science more to get a better understanding of what's going on.
@@kaizersozé66 No sir. There is no first or second reason. We're more complicated then that. Granted Placebo isn't the only reason why pain killers could work.
I've obviously seriously missed something here. I get correct me if I'm wrong that pain signals come from the brain. So your hands on fire your brain sends signals to say that feeling I'm getting in my hand isn't right do something about it. You put out the fire on your hand. The sensation afterwards just need to think it's my mind playing tricks I can overcome this. I presume something like the monk who poured petrol over himself as I think a way of protesting against the war in Vietnam. He had obviously mastered that. However say someone else in stick with vietman eg a child who is on fire from eg napalm and it's screaming it hasn't taught itself to say nope i can rewire my thoughts to realise I'm not actually in pain nor is my brain telling me there's something wrong my skins peeling off and the impending infection that will most likely kill if I'm not burnt to a crisp don't worry about that. Or the soldier whos had his legs blown off no that's all in your head and the medic who is probably giving him something for the pain should be going no no this is too expensive let's start thinking about this differently. Then say he or she is left with phantom limb pain for the rest of their life but call it persistent pain because chronic pain sounds worse. Also going back to the example of someone who's hand is on fire but they have no feeling in that hand and maybe don't realise it's on fire until they go what's that smell it's a bit like a dingo on a barbie. No wait it's my hand that I can't feel anything with. Is that because the nerves were previously damaged or that they were born with a predisposition to ignore the pain in the hand. Another scenario would my mosley be willing to what was that film about mark Brandon Reed chopper were 1 of his ideas is to take and ice pick to several peoples spines and turn them into paraplegics. Let's say take an ordinary hammer to his hands knees, elbows, ankles, just his 2 big toes his spine and say his jaw. Would it be wrong to give him something for the pain as it would be a drain on the economy. Why also was the world relying on tazmania a few years back now for more or less the 1 of the areas designated around the works to grow poppies to make paknkillers due to I believe a blight which had greatly affected the other 12 countries. Think this was pre war on terror Afghanistan. How much did thst generate for the Australian economy. Why is there so little progress made in curing cancer when it's 1 of the most funded say charities and how much of that money actually goes to help find new ways to combat cancer instead of chemotherapy for example. Compared to how much goes on 'admin costs'. Again I could be wrong but alot of pain specialists say only supposed stronger pain killers are given out in palative care. Would it not be cheaper to tell these people it's all in the way your thinking. Just think of it as your brain being really cleaver in making you think theres pain there when actually it's not your brain telling you there's something wrong but wait it's is but don't think like that. Let's try another scenario a man say being put feet first into a particular peace of farming equipment so that he dies a quite horrible and I would imagine but again I imagine not actually a very painful death and on a scale of 1 to 10 where you he rate that to say someone having their toe and finger nails removed and their teeth pulled out with pliers. Or pensioners going to a how to live with your pain class who are having to take extra pain killers to cope with what they are being asked to do but don't want to say because they are trying to retrain their brain. Perhaps they should just be put down it would save some money. Where a dog may well be given better quality of like before it's put down. Or because someone who has been on painkillers is told no no your addicted to them stop taking them at once. Or better still well give you buprenorphine or methadone instead. Maybe I missed all of those parts or take these antidepressants as they have been known to works for this this this this and that. Quite how they work we don't know but they may have a few side effects but don't worry start thinking of its as not your platelets being destroyed but these will help. Flip how haven't I been thinking like this. I'll go test it now and take a claw hammer to my head and see if that helps me rethink it better. Thanks definitely a life changing experience
I have what might be called CHRONIC BLADDER PAIN MYSTERY SYNDROME. It is chronic as no-one knows how to diagnose it and therefore there is no sure treatment for it, however, somehow I do not feel that this guy has the answers for me, rather I do myself though I need to keep working on it and my pelvic floor therapist hopefully can help, moreover, some of this chronic pain may slip into pleasure with the X factor. Naturally I want more of the latter rather than the former and I am working on it! Needless to say this guy does not delve into a pleasure aspect which to me is the same side of the coin so to speak!
13:45 Usually, pain is thought to protect you from stgh which is sensed to hurt you. But, it seems sometimes that Pain is trying to help you with stgh that doesn't need protection. Then How do we cope with pain-signal-not-related-with-protection ? What are the therapy to treat that ? Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy ? Haptotherapy ? Psycho-emotional Therapy ? Sthg about "I am confident with my body and environment" ? Mindfulness, exercise, etc. ?
I love the way this is explained, so accurate. I specialise in helping those suffering with Chronic Pain through Hypnotherapy it's fantastic to hear the medical community explaining it's all in your head. Cheers Tas Lombardo Langwarrin Hypnotherapy
I wonder if this ties into the frequent headaches people get from stress. Perhaps some of that stress is just maintaining "pain" networks designed to guide social behavior.
when he said "wearing a sarong" and then mimed the bite, I thought he was miming the sarong catching on something. But fascinating talk. I love his challenge, and I would love to hear more on this topic.
I'll thumbs up if that helps? There is a questioning and removal process of TED videos in place; you can even Google "banned TED talks" and you'll find them. The removal process happens when content can be unmistakably refuted and discredited. Moseley is really saying what's what; thoughts that fire together wire together; tolerances build to all sensations and the brain creates more. Pain is, very, real - it just comes from our brains; and that really makes sense!
I suffered for 10 years because idiots like this said my broken pelvis pain was all in my head, when i finally had surgery to fuse it the pain went away
Fantastic educator... Maybe I'm missing something but surely he made a mistake regarding the squares .." no matter how long you look at it "A" will look darker than "B" ....? It's the other way round no ?
If you have to retrain your brain how come disabled people cannot walk. And people in severe constant pain can't help that Even if they rewire the brain we now our limits what we can and cannot do.
Just come across this video, in the experiment with the squares, to me the more central square always appears darker regardless of whether a or b are on it? Is this the same for others because the Dr states that a will always appear darker and this is not the case, want to see if this is just me or for others as well?
