Being from Plattsburgh, this is one of my favourite stories! Tore up the bridges and turned them into roadblocks. Aiken interuppted a class to rally volunteers. He played them on the fact that they were going to defend the girls in the school. Every boy in the class volunteered.
This would be one of those clips on antique roadshow where Ian informs the owner that he has a rare gun worth a ton and the old dude who picked it up from a flea market starts crying
@@piyh3962 Or in the UK Hugh Sculley would tell the chap his rifle would have been worth a fortune if it didn't have a metal bolt welded through the barrel and the bolt cut in half.
My wife's ancestor Alexander Macomb was the general commanding the land forces at Plattsburgh. He was awarded a Congrssional old Medal...............we have the family documents.
@@regan.8077 I find no fault in that. The Young Pioneers of any Commie nation are unisex, and that doesn't affect their capabilities to hold and operate guns and weapons (mandatory subject)...
Boy Scouts are overrated. I prefer the Young Pioneers model of integrated chapters. Couldn't care less if you're a guy, a girl, or anyone in between for as long as you can use a gun correctly and make the enemy die for their country...
This screams movie script. Young lads coming together to stop the invasion, they were initially refused but they overcame that problem, smart tactics of dismantling bridge , one of the youngest amongst them dies to give the others resolve.ETC.
@@awgmax I recommend Red Dawn (1984), not the remake. You get, well, young lads coming together to stop an invasion of "reds", but they take to up arms as guerrillas instead of enlisting.
@@danepatterson8107 As much as I can appreciate the collectors to want to keep these type of items. As I am also a collector in particular of ww2 firearms. This one Just seems like the weight of the historical value is way more present then the interest of that individual to keep it in their closet. It's not only just a unique rifle model its got a major story attached to it and that just screams keeping it in a museum.
@J CC well that’s obnoxious. Destroying a time lasting artifact cause of their garbage security or fear of liability issues is just a moronic excuse. Do they break swords in two because the potential for getting stabbed might exist? I can’t imagine the hundreds if not thousands of examples they have ruined with that mentality in mind.
What a cool story. Our country's history is closely bonded to our firearms. I never would have heard this tale if it weren't for you and your passion for arms history. Thankyou Ian.
even rougher that the kid died in a silly war started by old men unwilling to talk out the problems they had. when political hot heads start a war they should be first in and last out of the firing line.
@@tommyfred6180 Well if they did not help win that " Silly War" when they did, there would have been a VERY SILLY war later between the British Empire that would own the America,s and the German Empire we would prob still be fighting WW1
@@davidherron9151hi you clearly don't use silly the same way we do in the UK as you seem to be a bit pi^sed off with it being used to describe the war. but it is what it is and was not intended as an insult to the men that died or the suffering that happened. but i don't think that the fall of the US would have followed mate. for one thing do you really think the USA would have fallen? seriously? remember that war was like the war of independence. a bit of a side line event for britain. we had both mined and body focused on europe. the US was just not a big thing. even when the french had been stopped and we had more than the manpower and arms to take back the US we didn't bother. why simple no political will and we didn't see a profit in it. america had been costing us money for years and we had no interest in going back to pumping millions of pounds into the place with no tax coming back in return. did you know we made more from the just jamaica than from the all the US at the time the revulsion happened. true one small island sent more money and goods in tax than all the american colonels put together. as for ww1. most americans seem to think that the US joining in was the reason germany lost. yes it helped. but almost no americans troops got into battle and the US army drained supplies from both the UK and french army. as they had very little kit and no heavy stuff. we ended up giving them stuff we had had to pay for from the US. the US death tole includes men that died of the flu. less than one in ten of the soliders died in combat. what did for gremany was its war economy and an ill timed offensive or two in 1917 and 1918. they would have folded over the winter 1918 regardless of US involvement or not. its a bit like the bull that the UK stood on its own against germany after the fall of france. or that we beat the germans in the battle of britain. nice story but just not true mate.
This is the type of story that puts a smile on my face. We have a lot of amazing history despite being a very young nation. But history is made by people and too often except for national level leaders the people are forgotten. Thank you for bringing this story to light, and sharing it. In these trying times its spirit is exactly what we all need.
I'm pretty sure @Crusty Marine is referring to 1950's- 1960's Disney when Walt was still large and in charge. It was a different world then, that's for sure. I do miss it.
@@bumblebeebob Precisely. Especially the main heroic characters being youths would have been perfect subject matter appealing to the younger target audience.
Awfully weird that this rifle isn't in the hands of that man's bloodline. An artifact this this might as well be sacred and absolutely belongs in their hands. I sure hope they're still around.
There may well be no one left in that family, or the present owner simply doesn't care about "ancient history". But my guess is this is from an estate without inheritors.
@TheWhiteDragon3, I can agree with your position somewhat, but I can also see the family wanting the story to be told and would understand if they gave or loaned the piece to a museum. If I was a non-family owner of the rifle, it certainly goes on display..... after I shoot it just a few times. I'm bad like that.
Very interesting. I wonder if I’m related to Smith Bateman? My Bateman ancestors are from New England and North Caroline and have volunteered and fought in all of our wars.
The Bateman family owns and operates a traditional brewery in the village of Wainfleet near the east coast of Lincolnshire in England. An appreciable number of early immigrants to America came from Lincolnshire, particularly the town of Boston. Maybe distant relatives?
During that period the USA still followed English Common Law on this matter in which a person in the absence of any statute to the contrary (Such statute that automatically emancipates an minor when they are married.) are considered an children in-till they turn 21.
Perhaps some context to the time period might be in order. Ian mentions that the young men were presumably equipped with small game weapons, for this time, most small game weapons were rifles, flintlock rifles mostly in calibers of .32 to .45 (as these were economical on lead and powder compared to the larger calibers) as hunting small game, which in the woodlands of western New York was most likely tree squirrels, of which three principle species were traditionally found in upstate NY, the common and familiar grey squirrel, the rather tiny red squirrel and the comparatively larger fox squirrel. The fox squirrel was usually more prised and can often be called 'small deer' as opposed to the various species of deer that were also in the area. There is an interesting comment in many diaries and commentaries of the time, although I am not aware of any being associated with this action, sometimes, squirrels were often killed while on a tree via a technique that many authors called 'barking' a squirrel. Not a squirrel barking, or a squirrel bark, but shooting as accurately as possible next to the squirrel so as to kill or stun the squirrel so that the hunter could run up and dispatch the prey. Additionally, it was also commented that if a shot was well selected, it was possible to dig out the ball and reuse the lead in another shot. Shooting a squirrel even with a small game or squirrel rifle, the ball would almost always be a total pass through, so the ball would not be saved. Also, seeing the day and time of these young men's actions and indeed the entire war and conflicts, the delay was inevitable as this was long before the advent of rapid communications, with the documents and reports often taking weeks, months, or in some cases a year or more to even get to the authorities. Add to this the fact that in the early 1800s, the US Congress was still as was written in the Constitution, a part-time legislature which met for only a few weeks a year, so even with the glacial speed of communication at this time, even Congress taking this request to act, probably took at least two years. Still, the request taking 12 years was quite a long time.
An award for an action in 1814....... Of a rifle of 1819..... Presented in 1826..... Yup, that's the American Congress if I've ever seen it in action alright❓🤔❓
Our government was designed to be slow to act except in emergencies hopefully limiting the amount of damage it could do. Sometimes it actually works as intended. 🤓🍻
Thank you! There is a very old Revolutionary War rifle/gun that is at the Historical Society. The family that had owned the rifle....donated it. There are still family around. It would be nice to know the history of HOW it worked. The town where I live even has a memorial where the Minute Men met before marching off....but looking at the rifle used, I can't imagine how it worked or worked quickly...
Arkansas militiaman here ,,, the thought of big daddy guberment awarding us anything , let alone a military rifle is unfathomable.. Awesome show dude !!
Having spent a good portion of my elementary and middle school years in Plattsburgh I’m surprised we didn’t learn more about this. We learned a little about the lake battle and that was about it.
the teachers were probably scared crapless that if they informed the kids that men THEIR AGE went to war you'd want to duplicate it somehow. Like, March on Canada??? (you can have Quebec for free)!!! or try to drain Lake Champlain. And they'd probably be right. I'd have LOTS of ideas.
You should view the channel's video on the Hall rifles specifically. There Ian elaborates that the _way_ Whitney made those interchangeable parts was different from the way Hall did the job. Whitney made parts interchangeable by making each part by hand and then finishing each one to tight tolerances. Hall made parts identical to one another from the very start, producing the full tranche of one particular part before moving ahead to make the next part in the plan.
The war of 1812 is quite interesting. As a Canadian, I was taught that the Americans invaded Canada and were defeated, so Canada stayed British. I have walked the battlefields of the Niagara Peninsula where this happened, and at the same time know nothing about any other aspect of the war. Americans I expect know about things like the Battles of Plattsburg and New Orleans, but know nothing of Queenston Heights, Fort York, Amherstburg, Chippawa, Chrysler's Farm, the Beaver Dams - (how Canadian is that?!) etc.
Yeah sorry Ian but a quick search shows that on the whole historians generally agree that the British (Canadians) “won”. I dont know how successfully preventing American expansion into BNA (Canada) would be considered an American victory... but hey thats history for you. Each side will “remember “ things differently. We got it right tho 😝
It is interesting how history is taught! As a Brit I wasn't taught this at all. Lot's about stuff closer to home: Waterloo, WWII, English Civil War, Magna Carta etc. We seem to be taught history in a way to instil national pride rather than to actually learn our place in the world.
Yeah, Americans are taught very little about the war of 1812. Basically they think that it was an act of them defending themselves from English invasion and they also think they won.
@@Panzermeister36 We are taught that we invaded Canada (Owned by the British) because the British were forcefully conscripting our sailors into their navy, then the British invaded us, we then beat them back and ended the war in a white peace (A Draw).
Super cool . And a lesson: a couple of days to form an effective company with teenagers ... and twelve years for Congress to reward volunteers. It seems my country, Argentina. Super cool . Y una lección: un par de días para formar una compañía efectiva con adolescentes... y doce años para que el Congreso premie a los voluntarios. Parece mi país, Argentina
If I remember correctly, another set of such rifles were awarded to the the individual students at WestPoint who also performed such service during the war of 1812 as the British were forcing their way up the Hudson.
There's a Bob's Burgers episode that I think might vaguely reference this, the one about the "Land Ship." Basically a local girl proposed her outgunned village build a decoy ship that forced the British to run aground and the abuse and kill the bewildered sailors.
Thank you for this! I attended the University at Plattsburgh, so the context of this rifle was especially interesting for me. If you feel like going down a rabbit hole, the Battle of Valcour Island is another interesting bit of history. Spent a lot of time kayaking around there while in school.
They had one of these on an the Antiques Roadshow in one of the earlier seasons. I couldn't find the video but I remember the story well about the boys and the bridge. I don't remember the estimate or the name of the owner but it's possible it was that same rifle.
"Macomb's point was 'Wow, you guys did great, and you had this hillbilly crap you brought from home!'" - Gotta love Ian's take on history sometimes. :-)
Grow up just off Cumberland Avenue where the Saranac River empties into Lake Champlain. Great story of this interesting location only miles from the CA border. Thanks!
It's actually really sad that the family is selling off such an amazing part of their family's history. I suppose it is possible that the bloodline was lost for some reason, but I would be heartbroken if my family did something akin to this. Hopefully a future relative can acquire this heirloom back into the family history.
Who cares for them it might be just junk and they need the money for something more important. Like... well what actually is* less* important than an obsolete firearm from a time no one needs to remember?
you never know. Grandpa's WW1 gun was confiscated by a warden, then sold for cash as it went to the operations office. he was choked in his memoirs about that. my uncles WW2 rifles were all probably disposed of, surrendered and melted down. Family were homesteaders but none really like guns. The deeds were done before I found out. No one thought to ASK other family if there was an interest, and when one passes there are other things on their mind.
@@dwightstjohn6927 yep. Also, apparently this one was supposed to go to the Smithsonian back in the 1970s or 80s. Not really explained how it didn't get there, and instead has been sold at least twice since then.
if you can, it'd be cool if you could get a look at a H&C Daniels breechloading under-hammer rifle, the patent is from 1838 and it uses proprietary steel cartridges with a percussion cap nipple on the back. Might be one of the first self contained metallic cartridge guns!
Wow .. what a fascinating story, if you wrote this now, no-one would believe it .... huge respect to the boys, the General, Congress and, of course, Gun Jesus for bringing that real piece of history to us. Wonderful!!
@@sinisterwombat3128 You say that as if you disagree and I can't imagine how given the circumstances the people involved were under. Then again I guess some people just don't want to defend their home or country. Good thing we have the 1st Amendment for that.
The "circumstance" of the people involved was: they were volunteers by choice in a war started by their own government. It's a stirring example of courage, and their heroism is admirable, but it doesn't make the war any less absurd and pointless, it doesn't make children taking up arms to support the stupidity of adults any less horrifying, and it doesn't make the make an argument for the 2nd in any way except possibly if the US had possesed solely milita instead of a standing army they might not have tried to annex Canada in the first place.
I keep thinking that the Discovery channel should hire you to do a documentary on the history of firearms. I would literally pay to watch that documentary!
I'd go for that...and an unlimited (new!) full-auto-license (so you can purchase straight from the factory and own those weapons - and your descendants, too) ;)
The Patriot was , technically not all historically correct, but it definitely opened the eyes of millions of young people about the war. That movie is like a uplifting propaganda piece, and its one of my favorite movies. Its like that 9\11 song all the old people love, " I'm proud to be an American , because at least I know I'm free" *that song!
I would recommend looking up this rifle in the RIA Auction Catalog 81 where there is further in-depth information about this rifle. Also the pre-auction estimate: $30K-$50K. Oh WTH... this is the description text (I added the paragraph breaks for easier reading - it's a lengthy description...): Description: This incredibly historic rifle is one of just seventeen Model 1819 Hall rifles authorized to be presented by a resolution of the U.S. Congress to a group of men who, mostly as teenagers, fought along side other American forces under General Alexander Macomb during the siege of at Plattsburgh in northeastern New York on September 11, 1814, during the War of 1812. These presentation rifles are the only firearms presented directly by Congress for gallantry/valor. Several of these important rifles are in museum collections, and less than ten are known today. Captain Aiken's rifle is on display at the Kent-Delord House Museum in Plattsburgh, and Gustavous A. Bird's rifle is part of the collection of the Smithsonian National Museum of American History (accession number 25598). This rifle was also almost placed within the Smithsonian. "History of Oregon Illustrated Vol. III" from 1922 includes an entry on C.B Clancey of Salem, Oregon, indicating that Clancey had inherited this rifle from Hiram Bateman, his maternal grandfather and Smith Bateman's brother, and that he considered it to be among his most highly valued possessions. The book also states that Smith Bateman's "father was shot down while defending the bridge at Plattsburg and the boy, who was then but sixteen years of age, at once picked up the gun and fearlessly took his father's place, thus performing a notable act of heroism. The gun is said by experts to be one of seven now in existence. It is a breech-loader and bears a memorial inscription. Collectors have offered Mr. Clancey large sums for the gun, but he has refused to sell as he contemplates giving the gun to the Smithsonian Institution for safe keeping." It is also illustrated and briefly discussed in the article "Historic Breech-loading Rifle" by Stanley Smullen in The Pennsylvania Antique Gun Collectors Association "Monthly Bugle" No. 532 from May 2014 (copy included). The distinctive and original silver plaque on the right side of the butt reads "BY RESOLVE OF CONGRESS/Presented to/SMITH BATEMAN/For his GALLANTRY at the/SIEGE OF PLATTSBURGH" and is engraved with olive branches. The replacement oval silver wrist inlay has is inscribed "SB" (originally had an escutcheon with his initials and battle date). Unlike the usual Model 1819 Hall rifles, the rifling on this rifle extends all of the way to the muzzle. It has the usual off-set blade and notch sights found on Hall rifles. The breech block is marked "J.H. HALL," and the stock has the inspector's mark "WB" on the bottom behind the trigger guard. On page 466 of "American Military Shoulder Arms, Vol. II" author George D. Moller indicates that only eight of these historic rifles are known to survive today but does not list this rifle as among those known to surviving indicating nine are extant. The history of Bateman's heroism is a bit different than what was passed down to his ancestors. Aiken's Volunteer Riflemen were a group of teenage boys from the Plattsburgh Academy that were too young to enlist but fought as volunteers with Martin James Aiken (1791-1828) as their captain and Azariah Flagg (1790-1873) as their lieutenant. They were among a smaller force of 1,500 regulars and around 2,500 militia under General Alexander Macomb that faced off against a British army of 14,000 soldiers under Sir George Prevost, the Governor in Chief of Canada. During the battle, the volunteers defended the Bridge Street Bridge, retreated across the bridge pulling up planks to slow the British advance, and then fought from the far side of the Saranac River at the stone mill. Some of their fathers were also involved in the battle, and it is possible, though not documented, that Bateman's father was wounded in the fighting at the bridge, but the man identified in included research as Hiram and Smith Bateman's father survived and was still alive in New York in 1850. The battle was decided by the American naval victory over the British fleet, which forced the enemy to abandon their attack on Plattsburgh. These volunteers were recognized by General Alexander Macomb for their orderly conduct in the face of British soldiers during the siege, while many grown men were routed easily or shirked their duty entirely throughout the war. They were reported to be excellent scouts and marksmen. They also lost a fourteen year-old boy during the fighting. Macomb tried to get the boys military issued rifles but was told he did not have the authority to do so, but also did not forget his promise. In 1822, newspapers reported on Macomb's effort to fulfill his promise and listed Bateman and the other 16 and noted that Congressional authorization was required. The House of Representatives passed a resolution that year, but the procurement of the rifles was stalled in the Senate but ultimately approved in 1826. Congress authorized seventeen rifles: fifteen for the boys (grown men by this time), including Smith Bateman, and their two officers. The resolution appears in the records for the first session of the 19th Congress under the heading "Resolution authorizing the delivery of Rifles promised to Captain Aikin’s volunteers, at the siege of Plattsburgh" and directed President John Quincy Adams to present "one rifle, promised them by General Macomb, while commanding the Champlain Department, for their gallantry and patriotic services as a volunteer corps during the siege of Plattsburgh. On each of which said rifles there shall be a plate containing an appropriate inscription." The resolution was approved on May 20, 1826. Little has been discovered about Smith Bateman's life, but there is a gravestone in Truthville in northeastern New York south of Plattsburg for a Smith Bateman who died in 1847 at the age of 53 (implying he would have been born around 1794 and was around 20 in 1814). General Macomb was promoted to commanding general of the U.S. Army in 1828. The Battle of Plattsburgh was an important victory for the United States in a war that was full of all too many embarrassing defeats including the burning of the nation's capital only a few weeks prior. The victory helped the position of the American peace negotiators and prevented the United States from losing any territory when the conflict ended late that year. A copy of the Conestoga Auction Company "High Quality Investment Grade Antique Arms Sale" from April 19, 2008, is included. This rifle is lot 408 inside and identified as coming from the collection of Everett "Birdie" Partridge.
awesome vid, I really enjoyed it. I've been watching your vids for a couple years now but haven't subbed yet, and this won me over for sure. I'm an idiot for not subbing sooner.
I still think that it is a neat design to get around a very real problem. I'm surprised that the action was not more widely used, it would also work as a percussion lock.
I have my great-great Grandfathers model 1851 Colt Navy revolver that was issued to him during the Civil War. It will never leave the family (I hope) and it will be handed down to my son and grandson.
What’s sad is that now it’s at RIA and that means that they’re not continuing the legacy anymore of passing it down. It’s going to a collector instead of the future generations that should be looking back and wishing they had their ancestor’s rifle.
But on the other hand somebody who wants to pass down the rifle and the history to future generations and who will safeguard it will have a chance to own it
@@Vivi2372 I agree that taking personal pride in the actions of your ancestors is weird, however, I do think you can enjoy the history and culture of your ancestry without doing that.
@@regan.8077 Gutting labor unions, getting into unnecissary and expensive wars in the middle east, decreasing marginal taxes on the rich, causing the 2008 housing bubble, not raising the minimum wage even though inflation is going up, environmentally destructive business practices, gutting medical programs like Medicare/Medicade, trickle down economics, the war on drugs, the private prison industry... It's a pretty long list ngl.
In the war of 1812, Plattsburgh was successfully defended with vigour and enterprise, Washington DC, by contrast, was not. It's almost as if the motivations were different.
