Me: "Do you have any fun stories from High School?" Surgeon: "High school was nothing compared to bring a brain surgeon. Oh, you had to study for a test? That's nothing compared to operating on a human brain." Me: "I'll take that as a no."
@@davecabansay8965 Goggins never got deployed. He talks about that too. In one of his speeches, he specifically said "I am not a hero, those people are heros" referring to those SEALs and other people who have went into battle,
Because goggins whole purpose of being a SEAL was to be physically and mentally challenged. Goggins even says he didnt want to be a SEAL. Jocko wanted to go to war, he was physically and mentally prepared to be a SEAL.
Dan Bilzerian(who was never a SEAL but who was in the Navy for four years and went through BUDS...twice, I believe )also talks about BUDS the same way that Goggins does and in a very different way from Jocko. Bilzerian talks about BUDS exactly the way that Leif said that guys who never experienced combat tend to talk about BUDS. I guess Bilzerian is another guy that we aren`t likely to see on the Jocko podcast.
True. He wanted to test his mind and body in prep for life. Really was never about "war". That's why he went to ranger school after. Jocko and Goggins are probably far apart on this it seems.
Caleb Hollars Gogginns did want to be a SEAL, it was his dream. But once he became a SEAL he found his purpose wasn’t to just be a seal but to push his physical and mental limits as far as he can and then some. He tried to get into seal team 6 and delta force he became an army ranger he deployed and went to war. People act like all Goggins did was work out but if you read his book you would understand his life is not what you thought it was.
@@kevinjohnson6549 exactly. Goggins literally just goes beyond the higher standards. Not to say that jocko doesnt but this is what makes the seal teams special, every individual is specialized some way or the other and they all work together and make things happen. Goggins is the sort of guy who isnt afraid to run 135 miles in a single day nor is he afraid to bust down a door that has 5 bad guys with Aks all aiming at the door. He has proven himself to be a seal and no one can take that away from him. Especially fucking civilians who say"what a fucking idot "when a pro basket ball player misses a shot while they're at home, fat as shit and watching the game on tv, just being plain out pathetic and envious.
I think they, Jocko & Goggins, are talking with different perspectives. Jocko measured the military achievement, the combat. Goggins is about the self transformation through military. Just like, going through BUDS. Or passing that ASVAB test, it could be a piece of cake for most people so it doesn't mean anything to them, but it means the world to Goggins.
@@Bdubbin305 No it's not.. Clearly you haven't watched more than 5 minutes about Goggins :) He said going through BUDS was nothing compared to those hundred milers he went through, but he sure will mention BUDS training as is a part of his story.
I am humbled each and every time I listen to your stories of the realities of warfare. I'm an LEO of 16 years and when I think of difficulties I've faced, your stories just leave me absolutely speechless. Thanks so very much for your selfless dedication and service for all of us stateside!
But cops are nasty pieces of trash pushing the elite agenda to the detriment of working folks. Cops think they're above the law and act accordingly all the time. Its why no one respects cops. Too much corruption, too many nasty ones to count. Y'all fucked yalls selves by falling short. Now its too late to come back from your dishonor so y'all try and own it like 'what arr you gonna do about it?' Y'all aint shit. If I had a dollar for everytime I couldve snapped some cops neck and threw his ass in a ditch id have 20 bucks
The difference between Goggins and Jocko is that Goggins was born to be a nobody and became a navy seal. Jocko was born to be a seal and became the best.
Have some respect. Goggins is an Iraq veteran that served in TACP, Seals, and Rangers. Do not let your respect for Jocko excuse your disrespect of a man like Goggins who successfully served his duty. Good night, sir.
Sometimes, I find myself stressing out heavily regarding work. I'm in the tax business and it can be difficult. However, through listening to Jocko, I've gained a comparison that makes my challenges seem like child's play. Combat? I can imagine but I can't relate. Stress? I can't even imagine that kind of stress let alone relate. Thank you for producing this podcast. It gives me a proper perspective. You guys are badasses.
I remember coming into listening to Extreme Ownership audiobook for the first time thinking "Well there's no way the other dude is going to have a manlier voice thank Jocko"....
The relaxing of standards in the name of retention is the biggest challenge facing the military today. Next would be the lack of leadership in the lower ranks.
@@carpenter315 I've talked to a lot of lower ranking Army/Airmen about problems they're having that should be getting passed up the chain to a competent NCO who can find a solution. If they're not seeing it, how can they emulate it?
The greatest contribution to the current military leadership platform is that we have new up-and-coming amazing guys coming in all the time. There is a spectrum of all types, personalities, etc coming in. That in and of itself is great, but that is not the whole ball game. What I saw happen are these great and amazing guys who leave as 4 year PFCs and 8 year LCpls who were stacked with more chest-piece eyecandy than our SSgts. I saw these amazing Marines who knew what war was. I had the honor of being mentored by these outstanding guys who could really break down the motions and training environments/scenarios to an understandable degree; guys who excelled in what they did. They all left because they saw they had more to offer than what the Corps would allow them to give. They were capable of performing and doing better, but were held back by the Corps. So what ends up happening is all these phenomenal guys leave, because they are so sick of the BS, then guess what you're stuck with. All you have left are the sandbaggers and guys who have sub-par reasons for sticking around, either from institutionalization, or ignorance about the world, or some other negatively contributing aspect that has them making the decision to stick around. They end up staying until they either A) get kicked out or B) the Corps just throws rank at them. Now, there are crappy "leaders" in positions they never should be in simply because they were "the best" option available from the pool of people who brown nose or are yes men. - And then we all sit back and wonder why the military is inefficient in the details of its planning, implementation processes. We wonder why we are standing in formation from 0400 to 1300 at parade rest just waiting for the Battalion Commander to release us for liberty. There is an infinite number of better and more productive ways in how to use time, train, and spend money. However, it's not always bad. There are the occasional good guys who actually make it to a position they deserve and just as the shit rolls down the hill, so does the positive influence of these good leaders who are few and far between. - If the military focused on cleaning out their shitbag leaders, this would leave the opportunity for the real heros of war to step up and be recognized to do what they can to further propel the military in the forward moving progressive place it should have been all along.
@@jonathanbulkheed338 In the 80s under Reagan the same thing was happening so he instituted programs in every service to get the dead wood out and instill pride and leadership. It worked fantastically and that's why we had the trained and dedicated force that went into Iraq the first time.
@@jonathanbulkheed338 Shit! That's a critical observation but probably accurate. I entered Navy basic with an EOD contract. Halfway through basic I came to believe that I would probably just be wasting my time; I was 28 at the time. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, and no born leader. I definitely did not fit in with the majority of them being teens and probably would have just been a liability. I got myself kicked out. It is a minor regret but I didn't have the character or integrity required for the job. Yet it's character and integrity the absolutely only thing I care about right now.
It’s always about the men and women you serve with, that’s what makes the American military so great! The bond that brings us together as brothers and sisters in combat.
@@aegonbreakspear9102I could take you and your weak father. I bet he dosen't own stock in apple like my fatHer does. HA! These people don't have a mind like I because I am richer then they are HA! NO ONE CAN TAKE ME
Does anyone remember Jocko saying something along the lines of '''when you're 25 you look back at who you were at 20 and laugh at how dumb you were. Same thing at 30, you look back at 25 and so on and so on''? For some reason that truth has stuck with me and I'd really like to find out where exactly I got it from and I am pretty sure it was from one of these episodes.
The training NEVER ends ever. How do you take a snotty nose kid from a country town and prep him for combat mentally? I grew up in the worst projects for six yrs and saw people get murdered. By the time I joined the military I was desensitized to that level of small arms violence. What I wasn’t used to were IEDs which also terrified me. Not the explosion per say but the possibility of being in a Hummer or MRAp one minute and blown to bits by a buried bomb. This caused extreme anxiety of being in enclosed vehicles going slow so now I trip out in traffic. I was one of those guys who’d rather be on my feet than riding around because in my mind at least I had a fighting chance
I think no one pushes for the integration of women in the NFL because people are able to watch the games and have an understanding of what would happen to a woman in that situation. If more people could see how a woman performs on the battlefield I don't think anyone would think its a good idea.
@@xringkiller The average member of the military never sees combat. Those who do have a lot more training than the average soldier. And I'm sure most NFL players would not fair well in a combat environment.
😊Look at the look on Jocko's face when Leif is talking! The modesty that these men exhibit is.....is humbling. They are clearly all about people and about self sacrifice for the greater good, not about being badass. For some Seals I've listened to (and I won't mention names), it's about them, it's about the training and how they made it through the training. For Jocko and Co, being badass is just a means to an end, conquering self, improving self, waging war on self to elevate virtue so as to wage war on evil and to win. When I was younger, I wanted to be an American and to be a Navy Seal in America. Patriarchy and poverty never let me fulfill that dream. But Jocko, Jocko is a dream come true for me! I wonder if Jocko reads comments. Maybe not. But if he ever sees this, I'm saying thank you, and I love you Sir.
Thanks for clarifying the myths that most people don't understand. The job of any military occupation is when its done in a real world situation. Special Forces Assessment and Selection is exactly what it is. An assessment and selection process to see if a Soldier is mentally and capable of doing the job. BUD/S Basic underwater demolition and Seal training is no more than a series of test and training to see if a sailor is capable and mentally prepared to handle the stresses of the job in a real world situation. This is the same for Any special operations mission unit. This is also why all services have a Basic training phase. All soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen and coast guardsmen are put in a variety of different test and training to prepare them to go to advance training and follow on units that will actually deploy and do those jobs in real life situations. Combat is the real test of prepared skills that will show if men and women are capable of handling what they were trained to do. BUD/S for the navy or SFAS for the army, or RASP for the Army and so forth is like a police academy for a police officer. They can prepare a person for the basics of elite training but the real test is when that police officer is put in life or death situations if what little they learned in the academy will prove if they can handle that job. Its one thing when a person is dealing with training aids, its another when a person deploys to real life combat situations.
Is there a way we could simulate legitimate combat scenarios in training? I'm no soldier but I'm certain people react differently between authentic combat and training. It's like playing poker without real cash on the line -- the game just doesn't play the same. It doesn't feel the same. Tension is gone. There's very little personal involvement. And in that regard, you could have the most grueling military training process but you can't get accustomed to a real combat scenario because you'll always be living under the basic subconscious safety net of "nobody is actually trying to kill me. This is a training exercise." And you won't ever engage in the same tension and high stress that you'd be pulled into if it were an authentic combat zone. And so the assumption is that it really isn't possible to simulate authentic combat in training. Just as you're playing poker without real money -- you won't be playing the same game until the money IS real. And you won't be operating the same until the threat IS real. However, it makes me wonder if there's a way people can be manipulated psychologically to make them believe they're in real danger. Because if that can be done, certainly there must be some great value in getting soldiers accustomed to authentic battle before they ever even leave training. Not to say Seals don't have it tough enough as is. They're phenomenal. Literal lethal machines made of hardened will and courage. But just out of plain curiosity I wonder how far our limits can be stretched in preparation.
You're trained to think every situation is real, you're trained enough so when the situation comes you don't even have to think you just react to what you know and do it to the best of your ability. That's why buds is the way it is, it puts alot of stress and Focus on you to see who has the willpower to see it through to weed out the people that shouldn't be there and aren't able to keep their focus on their task.
The issue is that you can't train for combat-like situations. You can't risk the life and safety just in training, hence why BUDS is, as they say, nothing compared to combat. You can't desensitise someone to danger close or the zipping of rounds overhead or the shockwaves of IEDs or the sting of shrapnel, because during trainings you know, THEY know, that you can't kill them. So there's no threat. That, I believe, is the difference between BUDS and combat, and why merely meeting training standards is nowhere near acceptable. Mad respect for everyone that overcomes it and progresses.
If I was only hearing the audio of this clip I would have thought Jocko was having a conversation with himself with some Echo Charles mixed in!! 😄 Lief sounds JUST like Jocko.
I appreciate what they are saying, but I think they have to realize that such a question is very likely coming from someone who has never been in the military. And also coming from a place of sincere respect. Regardless of the fact that the training pales in comparison to combat, i'm sure there are indeed some stories to tell. And to basically just cut the person who asks some slack, and understand that the question is coming from their perspective as a civilian on the outside looking in.
For people who think this is a knock at Goggins who was a member of Seal Team 5 remember this, you had no idea Seal Team 6 was going to raid Osama's compound and you have no idea where or when operators operate. Some talk about it, most do not. That's a fact. Also it appears Goggins served in both Afghanistan and Iraq as a TACP.
That 1:50 point seems like a direct shot at Goggins. Lol. That dude is all about BUDs and it doesn’t mean shit to any other Navy Seal with combat experience.
These are my exact sentiments about our politicians forcing the marine corps to open up the infantry to women. To me it was never about what they are capable of in Paris Island or school of infantry. Just like you guys, it gets ten thousand times harder from then on out. Even some of the toughest guys we had struggled from time to time with the things that went on.
Sounds to me like BUDS is just like most everything in the Navy. When I was in the Navy I went to my A school and were were drilled over and over as to how to do everything correctly. We had to do and redo until it was correct and perfect. Then the very last instruction my class was given was to forget everything we had been taught and do things they way the are wanted to be done at our new posting.
Since they didn't tell a good BUDs story I'll help out with a story from selection. We were training for land nav. During this part of selection you spent a lot of time out wandering around in backwoods North Carolina. Anyway, after a few days of eating MREs I had to take a massive shit. I find this wonderful little farm with some waist high plants growing. Perfect for a nice private poop time. I scuttle across the road and work my way into the middle of the field. I dig my cat hole and squat down. Everything is right with the world. As I'm squatting there mid shit, out walks the farmer. He steps out of a row two feet away from me. I clinch on to my rubber duck (a fake rubber M16) as I prepare for the worst. We make a very awkward eye contact. I smile and say "Howdy" he frowns and turns around and walks off. Mission accomplished.
I would like to rephrase the question to ..... "Tell me a story that happened AT BUDS." Meaning BUDS was merely the time/location/setting/etc something cool or funny or whatever happened that stuck with you for some reason. I think wording it that way makes answering the question much easier and feel less like telling a "war story" to the uninitiated who think BUDS is some insane experience that resembles actually being a SEAL.
Nothing but appreciation and respect for these guys, but come on lol. We know nothing about war or buds, but just tell a funny buds story. A handful of people have told buds stories on this pod. Nobody is glorifying it really, we just think the shit talk and camaraderie is hilarious. Like I said, we know nothing, but I feel like most people realize combat would be way harder mentally and physically than training. No matter the field, training never fully simulates the job. Thanks for your service, men. God bless.
I think the person who submitted that question was looking for stories about any of the accidents and injuries that you saw at BUDS. But you know what? Even I realize that this is a far better answer than anyone was expecting.
I think the core of what they are saying is that frontline casualty rates for ground troops are like 50% - guys that see loads of combat have a 50-50 chance of coming home with a purple heart or a crisply folded flag. The SEALs acknowledge this and the screening of something like BUDs is really just a means of giving these frontline guys better odds of surviving and success. BUDs ain't that interesting compared to surviving several close-fire missions.
*They spend 7 minutes talking about how buds is nothing relative to what comes afterward, and how it’s inflated in the public eye.... * Guy: so how long is buds, lolz 🤔
Jesus Christ, alright, we get it, BUDS is no big deal, we just wanted to hear a funny/and or interesting anecdote about BUDS or training or whatever. No need to be blowhards about it.
Great point about what we're actually discussing; it's a standard. That means it is the minimum, C- average passing because you *want* to actually push yourself to get there. The man said, great athletes breeze by BUDS but freeze up in their 1st deployment. I rather have a strong B average with actual leadership skills than a 4.5 GPA but lacking reality. This is why enlisted soldiers in the past would get nice offers to re-up if they distinguished themselves. It's actually *not easy* to find a few good men that then are proven warriors. And plenty of guys don't take it, too. It's also not easy to find soldiers that will actually hit their targets in combat knowing they're making kill shots. This is obviously less of a concern in BUDS but more general to enlisted evaluation, tactics, management etc.
Most definitely a shot at Goggins, most people know that Goggins wasn’t well liked in the seal community for reasons that I don’t care to type out (just watch Goggins clip going into detail) but regardless Goggins is a man whose actions command respect as well as Jockos. Everybody doesn’t have to get along or like each other, oh well.
David Goggins tries to inspire others to embrace tough challenges and overcome difficulties in their lives. Using BUDS and his other physical exploits are things non military people can relate to. How are you going to use combat examples to inspire civilians? I am retired military (not special ops) and we can lose people when using military jargon in our speech or when trying to explain situations unique to veterans.
Never been a SEAL or know the pipeline but from all the information out there, seems like BUD/S- on the short end, a year long process, two years at most. Compare 1-2 years of getting wet and sandy to 15+ years of consistent combat. Definitely understand why BUD/S doesn’t even register for some of these guys
Buds may be nothing compared to warfare. I get that. For sure. But it ain’t a walk in the park either. These two are downplaying the misery factor I believe.
That would be awesome if someone would make the most realistic Iraq war movie ever. From how they realistically walked, acted, got along and how they realistically handle losses. Or how different cultures within the seals got along.
They had to talk up how great they are.... These guys are so egotistical... Doing bicep curls so girls will beleive them when tbey scream how theyre a seal
I saw on reddit some guy legit lost the skin of his dick from sitting in the ocean there. And all the skin on his upper legs. How tf do we not get a BUDS story...
Goggins talks about BUDS to motivate others, there's nothing wrong with that. Going from someone who dropped out of pararescue training, to the 37th African American to graduate in the history of BUDS is beyond motivating. I read his book during my spinal cord injury recovery last year (fully paralyzed) and I'm not sure if I would of stretched my mind to run a marathon 11 months later if it wasn't for him. Him talking about missions, and the badassery of his war experience wouldn't have an impact on others. He's one of the realest guys out there, not just trying to make money, and become famous. Beyond respectable.
They’re obviously selling it short, but I’d imagine it’s 100% true that training in general has nothing on legitimate kill or be killed situations. Duh
I believe what Goggins went through in his childhood is far worse than war. At age 7 you are not mentally and physically capable of defending yourself from the beatings he encountered.
@@derrickbaker2102 , You are absolutely correct. Many people would probably have committed suicide if they went through what Goggins did. Jocko and the people on this podcast seem very empathetic. They likely even believe that having empathy is a weakness.
