Gilliam's remark about the project being unfilmable probably made Moore very happy. That said I am quite happy Snyder choose to stick as close to the source material as he did, because that timetravel idea sounds like a major departure from how the comic ended... which is a bad idea in this story's case when most of the rest was building up to it.
So, the Joe Silver produced Watchmen would’ve essentially been a prequel to the comic, imply that the events in the movie spawned the comic that we know and read? Pretty far out idea. Grant Morrisonesque
In all honesty I like the change to the ending. Veidt wants to prevent nuclear war he has Doctor Manhattan end up making our reality, one where we ended up not escalating things to nuclear war. It's weird and meta. I dig it. I do think that out of all three options Zack Snyder's was the cleanest most conventional ending. Instead of the whole subplot with Doctor Manhattan being to get him out of the way for the actual plot it ties into the end goal of making him seem like a threat to the public. And realistically speaking it's historically easier to rally people against an enemy if you give that enemy a face. The faceless threat of a possible impending alien invasion wouldn't be as strong as "this god like being we're already afraid of and know is out there is gonna come and get us"
I had no idea the attempts to make a Watchmen movie went back so far. So interesting to speculate on what could have been. Great information as always, Owen!
And that story sounds interesting. Glad they didn't do it with watchmen but take out the watchmen characters and use different characters, change what story elements were specifically connected to watchmen, and it sounds like an interesting cool movie as long as as I said it wasn't watchmen.
Make a movie with Watchmen concepts as long as it doesn't use the name brand characters that were themselves created to avoid using the name branded characters DC absorbed when it purchased the rights to a defunct publisher. My brain exploded!🔆
@@75aces97 well no. Just have either a single superhero or superhero group fight the villain and the story ending with the paradox of the heroes both existing physically and only in a comic book.
1:50 Actually Moore originally planned on using the Mighty Crusaders from Archie Comics. But when he approached them to lease the characters they said no. So he instead based the story around the Charlton Comics characters but was then asked to change them to original characters. So there were three phases to Watchmen.
I discovered your channel a few weeks ago and am obsessed. To me, you’re this close to making it mainstream! Constructive criticism on my end, your thumbnails may make a few people think you’re one of those WatchMojo videos when you actually give quite detailed info on all the subjects. I’m definitely a fan who wants your channel to get larger and to see you still retain the mostly chill vibe! Thanks for doing this for years!
Thank you for the feedback! I'll definitely keep that in mind, I'm always looking for ways to improve so I'll take it on board. Appreciate the kind words.
It would have bombed in the 90s, setting off a ripple in the film industry timeline for big budget action scifi films like comic adaptations and thought provoking movies like the Matrix. The new series is excellent. Beautifully shot, well directed, the acting is top notch, the costume design is stellar, and the music works well. It builds a mystery around contemporary social issues that were affects of the 80s Watchmen comics.
That's actually a really interesting point, how (if Watchmen was made in the mid 90's) it might've negatively impacted other big budget sci-fi films, ala Matrix? I haven't had chance to watch the show yet, but I'm really excited to finally watch ti this weekend!
As interesting as it sounds I'm glad we got the Snyder version, I think that is as close to the original we could get in movie format without changing so much. It's almost as good adaptation as Sin City (which to me is so close to perfect), would love to see a video on Sin City. As for the Watchmen season premiere... I wasn't impressed, but it has a lot to live up to and I will watch it to the end and hopefully it improves.
@@ungreatfulduck750 I said almost, the changes made were to fit it in to a run time suitable for a movie, or just changed for the general audiences, like the action scenes are what people expect when people watch "superheroes" but when compared to many other adaptations this remains fairly accurate and the cast do a tremendous job. A series would be a greater way to tell it if you wanted it really accurate. As for Sin City (both of them), they are a collection of shorter and simpler stories to tell (and yes I know two new stories were added to the sequel, but they were written by Miller which was a good idea).
@@ungreatfulduck750 I understand it, that's why I'm saying for a movie adaptation it's probably as good as we're going to get. Some people complain that it's too much like the comic, some like yourself say it's nothing like. The way I see it, is that it's close enough, it at least recognisable, and it's different enough to watch as it's own thing. Telling me I don't understand it... I could say you don't understand movies and how changes to the source have to be made for streamlining purposes or sometimes a different vision, whether it be a producer, director, or writer of the movie. I'm saying that someone could have done it and completely messed it up, or you get something like Watchmen, an all round well made movie that plays out as a simple yet even for most people confusing movie, the general audiences couldn't all follow the plot of the movie, a simplified version of the comic, and you want to do it exact... It will remain a near perfect adaptation of something most deem unfilmable, and there it is, so close. At the end of the day, people like different aspects from the comic, you can't please everyone, and it wasn't all going to make it into the film. And by the way, if you think there is only one scene added to Sin City, you should read it again, the movie adds quite a few things in, and that's before I talk about it's sequel... But we're discussing Watchmen so I'll just leave that.
@@ungreatfulduck750 I just like the fact you seem to love complaining at me for liking a movie. I get it, hell I've probably disliked something for much less but I understand choices and opinions of others isn't up to me, so yeah, Watchmen definitely turned out better than what it could have been. Thanks "bud"
Snyder's version proves that it is possible to make a Watchmen movie reasonably faithful to the source material; the problem is just one of time. A theatrical release,even a really long one,is just not enough. Hopefully,one day some cable channel or streaming service,free of the restrictions of the networks,will give it a shot. As for Terry Gilliam...if his post-"Baron Munchausen" filmography is any indication,I wouldn't want him anywhere near Watchmen. It'd be that Golan and Globus-produced Superman movie disaster all over again.
How could they not make this script into live action movie it actually sounds pretty good and actually stays faithful enough to the comic it does not give you all this filler or extra elements it just gives you the plot straightforward it just takes out there flushed out backstory and changes the third act in a way it doesn't stop the nukes I'm going off in timeline but the used time travel do it by going back in time and they racing the history that they actually lived through before
Gilliam would have been interesting. I believe that James Acheson (Dr Who, Spider-Man, Superman: Man of Steel) actually designed costumes for the film. At the time, I toyed with the idea of Peter Greenaway (Draughtsman's Contract, Sed and Two naughts, Drowning By Numbers) as director because of his love of symmetry
Zack snyders watchmen is one of my top 3 comic book movies of all time. I'd have been interested to see gilliams version as I like his films/style. But I'm glad we got the product we did.
@@haileyshannon7548good shout. snyders casting is phenomenal tbh. Whether u like his dc work or not you can't argue with his casting. Perfect to a man.
A lot of people don't seem to like that the HBO Watchmen makes Rorschach an idol for white supremacists. Alan Moore (a text book definition of a leftist) intentionally made Rorschach a caricature of a conservative superhero. The New Frontiersman (from the comic Watchmen) is supposed to be radical conservative magazine, not taken seriously by most of the media. That's the joke: Rorschach gave the true events to a newspaper that most people don't believe has journalist integrity...The New Frontiersman is equivalent to Alex Jones. It would stand to reason that the audience for The New Frontiersman (frustrated by Redfordations) would idolize a ruthless vigilante that exposed the truth. It's very subtle, and I may have to rewatch the episode, but I'm pretty sure the Watchmen movie (the Zack Snyder film from 2009) is a reenactment of the "events" in the 1980s. I think this is the case because the Minutemen TV show uses the art direction as the the 2009 movie. It could just be an easter egg (or a way to cut costs), but I think it would be kind of fun if in-universe, the 2009 movie was a glossy retelling of the events written in Rorschach's Journal, later published by The New Frontiersman. Also, interestingly, the conservative Rorschach is made the obvious hero in the film, while the liberal Ozymandias is made to the the obvious villain. If it were an in-universe film, it would go along with the theme of a group of people idolizing Rorschach.
Rorschach is supposed to be an objectivist, like Steve Ditko’s The Question or Mr. A. Simply changing the characther to “ it is social commentary “ is very dumb and lazy, and disrespectful. And also, I do not see Adrian as a liberal, but as megalomaniac homicide, or are you saying a liberal would kill thousands of persons to justify his own political beliefs?
Terry Gillim's Watchmen would have awful, but an interesting idea, you remember the early attempted comic book booms of the 80s and 90s with Christopher Reeve's Superman, the Four Batmans, Dick Tracy, TMNT, Flash Gordon, etc. it would probably be visually strange but everything else acting, story, special effects would be terrible!
You can add to that list Punisher (starring Dolph Lundgren), Nick Fury (starring the Hoff), 1990 Captain America, and Supergirl. Not so many superhero films before 2000 were any good. Granted, I'm not sure whether some of those were supposed to be good, or just fulfill an agreement, but even most of the ones that definitely tried were kind of terrible.
This is not fair Warner Brothers should have took a risk and actually increase the budget or gave it to someone without putting in the extra rewrites anyway thank you for this video keep making great videos own
I wouldve loved to see rorschasch walking around in the mess of 9/11. that scene wouldve been emotional and very powerfull, imagine him sayinh the "look up and shout save us" speech, and then later in the movie he looks up at the twin towers, would be a crazy story paralell
1 removing Rorschach being the narrator getting rid of the books of plot and changing the third Act actually kind gave the movie more narrative Focus and grounded the ending war and reality then just a plain comic book
I grew up reading comic books and I've enjoyed many of the movie adaptations. But the Watchmen movie is the only one on my favorites list. There are a few Terry Gilliam movies on that list so I'd love to be able to see what he would have done with it...but if he had made it this movie would never have existed...so I'm fine with this timeline I guess. Well, other than the fact that the Watchmen series exists in it. What the hell is it with people hijacking existing stories to tell their own? And then blaming the fans they alienate for their failure? Make your own movies. I'm not condoning all the hate, but I understand it.
Terry gilliam's version of Watchmen sounds way better and in theory would have been a great movie as opposed to Zack Snyder's which felt like copy and paste would just beautiful visuals in love action and nothing else which was it a disappointment to meet
The original watchmen wasn't a graphic novel just to let you know. It was a limited series. Which was collected into a trade paperback which most people know it as. But it was never a graphic novel.
A film that twists the source material...and then leaves out giant octopus squid, is literally beyond evil. They always mess things up. The film misses the point of the graphic novel by light years. 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🌍🌍🌍🌍🌍
I don't know how I feel about this one. On one hand I really enjoy Snyder's film, it's a reasonably faithful adaptation of the comics with many cool visuals, but on the other hand... Terry Gillian is just so much better than Snyder, both as a writer and as a director, so I can't shake the feeling that his version of the movie would've been a deeper, weirder but more solid story over all,even if less comicbook accurate.
I predict the shows gonna be too edgy as HBOs main MO (like the GoT episodes going off the book stories), cause i see exmasked cops vs rorshack clad alt right whites as a separate project with watchmen painted over it (post comic ending world and Jeremy Irons Ozymandius in or not). Snyder's cut is too violent, adding more that wasnt in the comic, rendered in panels of red, yellow, or blue. But i am fine with the film ending focusing in on the main cast, instead of alien hoax threatening worldly forces join, and drop the cold war.
For me at least Watchmen is only the original comic book. The movie, Before Watchmen, the new TV series, and Doomsday Clock are all lame fan fiction. But I do have to say the casting in the movie is perfect, and the photography is beautiful.
Interesting story, but this sounds like the terrible comic book movie jackpot. We probably would have thought this was lousy until we forgot about it. As much as we complain about how soulless CGI can look, it's really difficult to make a credible superhero movie without it. Of all the live action comic/superhero/fantasy movies made before 2000, how many still hold up? Like, at all? Superman, Batman, Spawn, Phantom, Howard the Duck, Captain America, Fantastic 4. And Paramount was supposed to back it? 😳
yeah, I love Gilliam, but his version would've been horrible. Frankly, as much as Snyder jumped the shark after, his Watchmen was worthy and IMHO his ending was brilliant and made much, much more sense than the original. Hopefully Alan Moore saw it and punched himself for not having thought of it himself, because seriously, giant squid???
@@anibalberrey338 Yeah, but the Watchmen film isn't deconstructing superhero films, it's still deconstructing superhero comics. And so while I understand that Veidt's ridiculous comicbook villain plot was a nod to silver age ridiculousness, the silliness and unworkability of it (THOUSANDS of scientists, engineers and artists involved and then had to be killed to protect the secret) undercut the credible impact of the rest of the story, especially in light of the fact that Veidt was already turning the public against Manhattan ANYWAY. Makes SO much more sense that Veidt would use his genius to turn Manhattan into the big bad, especially as Manhattan is clearly a completely unambiguous cypher for the nuclear arms race. Doing the ending the Snyder way results in a four-fer: Veidt's plan actually makes sense, only the other Watchmen have to keep the secret (or be killed), the ending isn't stupid, and you get the cold war metaphor up the wazoo. IMHO. ;)
But in some way you dodge the satire. All the plot and subplot is created from scratch to say something. Forget the pathos and analyse the ethos, what the author means. And thats not a deconstruction, the deconstruction is a path, a way. The owl in the shoulder of pallas text says something about that. But that's not in the movie so is never gonna make sense. Also for a satire or a parody you need the body of texts. Most people saw the movie as a realistic take on superheroes, if you are aware of the tropes of the genre you get the subversion of those. The movie and show is for a majority not the 15% of the audience who read comics and went to see the movie (in 2009 at least).
@@anibalberrey338 yeah, I have to admit I never saw Watchmen as satire. It seemed the whole thing was predicated on the concept of costumed vigilantes presented realistically in a realistic world and how history might have unfolded differently. Just another reason why I always hated the squid. ;))
not for me his version was way too close to comics and plus he was just all visuals and action that we get some praise about another oral storytelling what do unique characterization or the themes or even the characters backstories I think I will preferred the other guys version that we never got to see a post to this but that's just my opinion
I loved the movie. Thank god Gilliam didn't direct it as I dislike everything he has ever directed other than Brazil. I think the opening credits rank amongst the greatest ever done.
Personally I prefer Justice League new frontier. Does everything watchmen does but better. I'd watch a movie of that especially if they got the Joker writers Todd Phillips and Scott Silver.
Naw, if you want someone to do a faithful adaptation of The New Frontier, then you need to get Brad Bird as director/producer. His Incredible’s movies take place just a little bit after timeline of The New Frontier ends, and he has a deep love for golden and silver age heroes that populate the story. With all that being said, I think it would work better as a live action prestige tv miniseries airing on HBO Max, but this would only happen assuming The Watchman tv show is a runaway success, so let’s all get to watching that sweet premium cable tv!
