I had a customer that had equipment that kept shutting down to over temperature sensor. So they disabled the sensor. Instead of have us do a $1500 service call to trouble shoot and fix the issue it cost them $80,000 when the equipment caught fire and part of their facility was shut down for weeks
It's funny when Kyle says, "You won't CATCH us using the wet rag". But we all know he will. And he says, "We have never recommended you use the wet rag". When he has demonstrated the technique many times in detail. It's like watching Scooby Doo run off the edge of a cliff and scramble in mid air to reverse direction.
There may be a tiny bit of legal CYA going on in that statement regarding not recommending. Just accept it, say “yeah, sure, that’s the ticket” like Joe Isuzu and move on.
I'm, among other things, a marine electrician. I have found that the cleanliness of electrical terminals is a hudge factor on getting a resistance free connection (a cool running connection) I don't know if there are fragile coatings on terminals but if not a cleaning tool to use on car and handel terminals would be helpfull to avoid resistance generated heat.
This is a huge factor that seems rarely discussed. And how pressure is put on pins and structure of either the male plug or the female port in EV charging. This could all be helped (but never fully solved) by having full-time attendants at charging stations like at gas stations to monitor pumps
@@Wankidy 400V class EV (All Tesla’s except their latest) requires double the current thru the plug to get the same power a 800V vehicle gets with half the current. This current hungry battery pack voltage architecture (many EV’s have) heats up the cable that requires slowing the charging to reduce the current and waist heat. The wet rage was an attempt to fool the sensor in the handle to not slow down the charge based on this hardware superheating Tesla was trying to prevent. It may have cooled handle sensors but not the root source of the heat. Those pins just baked and Tesla wasn’t so impressed that their safety measures were being circumvented. I can’t say I blame them. It’s their property.
The contacts are NOT the only root, otherwise it wouldn’t matter what the weather was. Frankly if they are using that surface sensor to protect the contacts that’s bad design, as it’s measuring in the wrong place. All it’s doing it what the tag was, protecting user from hot surface
I was on a roadtrip and I pulled up to a Version 3 charger in my Model Y LR and I never got over ~123KW in a heavy rain. 10 days later on the way back, I stopped at the same charger and I got 250KW. Don’t know if it was a fluke or the rain does affect the logic as well.
Around 8:15 Kyle mentions "the thermals on Tesla chargers are so terrible, really terrible, especially in the summer." In all the discussion around other systems (very real) problems (reliability, etc.) I've never heard Out of Spec mention this. It seems it is certainly relevant with everyone talking how perfect the Tesla system is. Did I miss it? To be fair none of the other media seems to have brought this issue to the forefront either.
It's definitely come up. Especially in cybertruck videos. Lot of criticism of tesla chargers once they released a product that was exceeding their own chargers in some ways. And maybe he's just got tesla thermals on the mind after the M3P video. Now, what I haven't heard (or haven't retained or just don't understand) is what exactly the impact is and how it compares to other competitors. "Terrible" in reference to what
I don't think the CHAdeMO connector on my Leaf will be overheating. That is a chonky boy! Ironically: Flo AAC-00061 appears to disconnect after ramping to 120A: and may be an overheating issue (a bump stop on one of the power pins is missing).
Tesla vehicles have a terrible charge curve in general, so the thermal issues never really came up. Now that more cars, including teslas have longer high amp sessions, we are starting to notice
Yes, he's mentioned it more recently, particularly when road tripping the dual motor R1S. Derating on the Rivians in V3 chargers is like clockwork when it's even moderately warm outside.
Yep. Having overhead cover is also nice (for humans and robots) when it's raining or snowing! I know we're talking about Superchargers here, but I suspect that a large percentage of the issues with every other network, are simply down to off-the-shelf components being left to bake or soak out in the elements. You have to really design and test for that, if it's a requirement. Your average off-the-shelf contactless reader was probably designed for a Coke machine that has at least _some_ protection (not to mention a guy regularly restocking it, who can at least report issues).
@@vicvango1443 Or they can actually do the job correctly instead of using the "Three Stooges Method" you suggest. If it wasn't for idiotic hyperbole you would only be able to open your mouth when your boyfriend rattles his zipper.
@@vicvango1443either you don't know or you seems to act like you don't know...... Companies have to work like they are looking to minimise issues not ignore them....
10:33. There’s more than one potential heat source, including sun on black handles which you previously mentioned. To the extent that the handle was heated externally then the rag would properly counteract that. To the extent it was heated internally from current flow then the internal sensors should trip first and cooling the handle won’t prevent the issue.
Are you really tampering with temperature sensors, or are you applying additional external cooling mechanisms to actually cool the connector? Probably a bit of both.
My understanding is that the external temp sensor was added to insure that the handle didn't get too hot and burn the users hand, not because of overheating the internals. Cooling the handle, by whatever means, accomplishes the design goal, so I don't see what the issue or concern is?
@@rookm13 The context was already there: COOLING IS COOLING. And the notion that the “heat comes from inside” is nonsense. Heat is caused by resistance and/or high amperage. When external ambient temps are high the heat can’t dissipate; cooling at whatever location the heat presents itself IS mitigation.
I wonder if the European superchargers derate in the same fashion, considering the European CCS connectors have a handle that's way removed from the actual pins. For me this haven't been an issue, but then again I live in Norway.
Yes canopies would help cool down these chargers sitting in direct sunlight. Most gas stations have canopies to keep both the pumps cooler and to keep customers out of the direct sunlight and rain. The canopies could just be made to cover the charging stations. They could also put solar panels on top of the canopies to provide additional energy for the charging stations. I can't be the only person who has thought of this.
I suspect gas station canopies are not there for the comfort of customers, but to prevent the spill containment system from filling up each time it rains. (Spill containment is needed to prevent poisoning the soil and ground water.)
The canopies are there to house the fire suppression system that's required by law. They aren't to shade the customer! They are VERY expensive and there's no way they would install canopies if they didn't have to.
@@Cyrribrae True, but they are an added cost to an industry (DCFC stations) that already doesn't make money. They need to find ways to DECREASE install costs. Anything extra, including canopies, increases costs. I want them as much as you do. But I want ALL their money building out the DCFC infrastructure far and wide before I care about amenities.
When you distill it down, nearly all of the major (very legitimate) gripes about the state of public charging boil down to: "make it more like gas stations". Here's a crazy idea: why not install them _at gas stations_ ? I know it's not unheard of, but it's far from common. I hope this changes! Customers get weather protection, a place to buy drinks/snacks, a bathroom, a squeegee for the windshield, an attendant to help them if they're disabled, want to pay cash, or otherwise need something. Charge providers get an attendant who can help customers with issues, monitor for theft/vandalism, mark broken equipment and request repair (if the equipment is not smart enough to do that itself, which it really should be). Almost every long-time EV owner has encountered someone at a public charger who just borrowed/rented/bought an EV, isn't up on the technology, doesn't know a J1772 from a NACS from an Ethernet cable, and is dependent on the kindness of strangers. Wouldn't it be nice if there were someone paid to help them out? EV's are very much a mature product, but the charging infrastructure is still stuck in "early-adopter" phase. It needs to be as easy as pumping gas, or my dad and your grandparents are never going there. They will try once and swear off it forever. Gas stations get a customer with 20+ minutes to kill who can safely wander inside to buy a snack (you're really not supposed to do that while dispensing fuel, though it's admittedly widely ignored). Gas stations make very little money on fuel sales anyway, as the margins are fixed and tiny; it's really just a means to get you to stop, in the hopes that you'll buy snacks and beer. EV chargers could operate on basically the same model, except the station owner would ideally pay nothing for the installation and certainly not maintenance...basically like a vending machine or ATM, where they allow it to be placed in exchange for a small cut of the revenue.
I never liked when anyone used the WRT. If the SC works, it should work. If it's broken or faulty, let's all see that it's broken and they can fix it. ...and like you said, it's not in the spirit of charging. Also surprised it took so long to address this.
The issue is not that it's broken or faulty but that it's SLOW, unnecessarily so. Of course, Tesla doesn't care how long it takes you to charge your EV. Time is money but it's your time not theirs that is being wasted.
Wouldn't it be great if all Supercharges were covered? I'm here in Florida and they bake in the sun. The handles get sun faded very fast and black doesn't help as it gets hot just sitting in the sun. Would it be more cost effective for Tesla to add a roof to the chargers vs having to replace damaged handles? The ones you showed in Europe are awesome!
Instead of firing people, they need to UPGRADE their equipment. I am glad that there are so many reliable Superchargers available, but nothing is perfect.
You’re not fooling the sensor. You’re cooling it. The sensor and handle are being cooled. It’s reality. What you’re not doing is cooling the port terminals.
If you cool the handle and the connectors are in the handle it is cooling the connector. It’s the same as if you could artificially make the ambient temps in the summer to be like winter. If there is a danger it’s because of poor design and sensor placement.
What if the connector pins have accumulated deposits during multiple uses and the heat is being generated because of a less than optimal connection? Would that be picked up by another sensor? If the existing temp sensor is there to protect from this additional internally generated heat then maybe it's a bad idea to wick away some of that heat. Do we know what's going on in the handle? If you have a plug at home getting hot when using a heavy draw appliance it is invariably due to poor quality connections in the hardware ... with consequent fire risk if not rectified. Nobody suggests trying to resolve the issue by applying some external cooling to the plug!
Francie, we have experienced very hot ccs cables a few time with our Bolt. At the speed the Bolt charges, ot really surprised us. We shall see how how new Equinox does
It also works on level 2 EVSE handles. Well, it doesn’t increase the throughput, but it cools down hot handles with 90F+ ambient temps. Mine tripped and stopped twice on very hot days so I put a wet towel over the handle and charging resumed. There is no logic for asserting someone wants to know what’s going on, what’s going on is hot is cooled and things work fine. Lowering temps at the handle with a cool towel is not “tricking” anything, it is lowering the temperature.
It is cooling the handle, but the concern may be that it isn't cooling the rest of the wire. The sensor on the handle is likely calibrated to account for the entire wire and by cooling just the sensor, you can cause problems.
Good luck with NACS over there :P I've said it before... Tesla claims 900A which is just insane. This is just proof that this is not going to work well...
9:00. Kudos for trying the rag right from the start.. detecting a sudden alteration in temperature trends is probably the easiest way to ‘detect’ the wet rag. If you chill from the get go, there’s no sudden change in temp or even the slope of the curve to indicate someone is ‘fooling’ with the sensor. You’re also providing a consistent thermal environment much as if it was just colder outside or raining, and their system should truly be able to cope with that as it would happen naturally anyway.
As an engineer I find it amusing how bad their temp management and monitoring system is if a wet rag can fool the sensors that should really be able to monitor pin temps at all times. I swear if there was a corner Tesla cut it. 😂
You seem not the kind of good engineer, thinking to be superior but not good at all. There are multiple sensors and he is only fouling the outer handle one and not the inner one.
@@TschingisTubeif that’s the case then it’s not even an issue as the sensors are still monitoring what they need to. The rag is cooling the enclosure and the pins are still being monitored which makes this even more strange aside from them just not liking the optics of their network being bad because people have wet rags all over the handles to make it work. It’s just comical instead of fixing the problem they made it worse.
Sounds like someone needs to come out with shiny reflective magnetic solar shade that sticks to the vehicle's fender and canopy's the charging handle keeping it in the shade. Similar to those reflective windhshield heat reflectors.
If we had covered charging those cables and handles wouldn't get cooking out there in the sun and prematurely derating. I vote for covered charging. Now that they are locking that down is Tesla charging really the better option? Is it really faster? Does it now make Tesla's SC's less desirable than other types of chargers? Going to be interesting to watch what the satisfaction rating is.
Maybe carry a dark-colored umbrella or something similar to shade the handle? Ultimately, we need charging equality with ICE vehicles. Canopies, pull-through spots, window washing fluid, tire air, restrooms, garbage cans, C-store. Some areas have laws that gas stations must provide air and/or window cleaning. It's a basic safety need. Why do they think electric cars don't need the same? I am tired of being a second-class refueler because we drive electric! Sorry, that turned into a rant.
Have you tried using a can of air duster/blaster by turning the can upside down to freeze the handle? Perhaps some gains can be obtained use this can of vs using a wet rag.
Our Gen2 home charger used to charge our Rivian at 11.4 kWh…we updated the software on the charger and now it in charges at 5.4 kWH. We thought it was Rivian but now I understand it was Tesla. Wifey able to fix this with wet rag. Frustrating.
If you do a podcast on canopies you may want to look into the Electrify America chargers in Mojave, California. The solar panels were literally ripped off in a wind storm because they were secured to the framework with clips which were not adequate for the wind loading. It's my understanding that the canopy if finally being repaired but I'm not sure if they are reinstalling solar panels.
re: "Ccs 1 is staring to sound a little better now..." exactly, it's what i've been saying this WHOLE TIME as everyone's jumping on the NACS bandwagon. alright folks, score yet another "i told ya so" for Phil in Pennsylvania. 🤙
Use white cables and wands instead of black as others have suggested. I believe Tesla now warms the charge port as part of preconditioning prior to DC fast charging sessions in cold conditions? Can they also cool the car side charge port prior to arriving and while charging? Our 2024 Model 3 with its 170kW ish max charging speed might charge about as fast as a Tesla capable of charging at 250kW in hot summer temps.
I have used wet rags on the wall connectors as well when they derate if they are in the sun. With an air temp at over 40C to start and that is way before the sun and or any charging has started.
There are canopies at all gas stations for weather reasons. Why don't they have them at all superchargers and combine with solar panels? Especially now that solar panel pricing has come down below wood prices, could install bifacial solar pergolas relatively inexpensively.
@Kyle and @Francie, I am a retired News Shooter with 13 years at the Denver ABC affiliate and lots of years before and after dealing with the Colorado Sun. I frequently setup my cameras in the shade of a golf umbrella on a light stand, and I wonder how much the heat generated during charging might be affected by Solar Heating and if it would help to put the exposed portions of the charging cable/connectors in the shade of Golf Umbrella?
I thought it was to measure the temperature of the cable. If there’s some kind of increased resistance, it means the cable is increasing in temperature. The sensor needs to monitor that.
Exactly right! If the handle is getting hot, the cable is likely getting hot too. This will increase resistance in the cable, ultimately generating more heat and wastage in the cable itself and ultimately lowering power delivered to the battery. Engineering is often about compromises of cost vs performance. Tesla may have to make improvements in the chargers, but that will raise costs to everyone-there is no "free lunch"!
I have to say this is a very interesting topic. But if you do not know the design specs of the supercharger or the battery management system on the car is this a prudent trick? Also is it a cost-effective trick? When current flows in a wire, the wire heats up and the resistance increases. The hotter the wire the greater the amount of energy wasted as heat. Someone is paying the bill for those wasted kWh probably the driver, but if not, Tesla will pass the cost along with higher prices for everyone.
Hmmm… I wonder if maybe the NACS form factor maybe isn’t the best for the future of EVs? Being that the handle is so small it has much less surface area to dissipate heat it might be harder to make it able to charge at the very high rates future cars need for their theoretical sub-ten minute 80kWh charge times.
So I should check the wiring is tight at the connections from circuit breaker to the charger head . Mine at 100 degrees in the garage the cable is hot.
Does anyone know what the actual logic of the derate is? Is it actually to protect internals? If so, they need better cooling. Is it to protect hands and NOT to protect the machine? Then the rag seems good. Get better cooling. Is it to protect both? Then get better cooling for both! But yea. This seems like the cheaper way to "solve" it lol. Also, I'm not sure blowing air over it would make that much difference, as people suggest? That works for us mostly because of evaporative cooling. Dry charging cables? Probably less so.
Always thought the charger cable may be glycol cooled using a small cooling system like I used to build for lighting systems on sandwich cabinets . The cooling tubes would only need to be 4 or 6mm tubes . No wet rags required
I wonder if this effect also occurs at the European SuC in Italy, Greece etc. with the ccs 2 plugs. I haven't heard anything about it yet, but I don't drive a Tesla either.
I'd been thinking of using a fan blowing on the car's connector. It would have to be mounted in the fender area. Now I think it may need a temperature sensor to make sure it doesn't lower the connector's temperature. Instead just keep it from increasing too much.
For years I have been saying the worst design flaw with these chargers is that they have a cord. What they can do and need to do is have a PAD you drive onto. Actually you don't even need to drive onto the pad you can tell the car to drive onto the pad if you just get close. The car goes onto the pad and there is a plug door under the car that opens. There is a door on the pad that opens and then you have a high amp plug that can then plug into the underside of the car. There will of course be lots of check before the power is turned on and before the car moves. Get a few engineers on it and they can make it work. From a home standpoint this pad could be added to your home having you get close to the garage and it drives in and starts charging without you touching a thing.
Something as simple as a golf umbrella might actually help. The only downside is that you have to stand there to hold it, but you would be in the shade, so it might not be all that bad.
I have heard of the problem, but I have not seen it used in Denmark but we rarely have high temperatures and strong sun Maybe using a connector spray on the car connector and cable could help with the problem
They would indeed retrofit the new cables by attrition. Cables have a finite plug/unplug cycle life, and when a cable comes due for replacement, that's when they would install the new cable with the liquid cooled contact surfaces. If they're going to bother putting up canopies, it only makes sense to make them photovoltaic, just because it wouldn't add much to cost. The only reason they wouldn't, is because a 1.5 kW solar panel array wouldn't actually contribute much to a 150 kW charge session. Once they start installing electrical energy storage at charging stations, then, solar makes very good sense. The panels would be continuously feeding the battery bank, even when no one is charging there.
Black plastic Charger handles don’t help when they’re sitting in direct sunlight. I’ve noticed the humongous ElectriFail America Charger handles are white and don’t get as hot.
As a Phoenix resident, I'm highly skeptical of the entire thing as I charge often using Tesla Superchargers in the middle of the day when it's 115 out without any issue. Is it taking 22 minutes to charge instead of 18? Maybe. Can't say I've noticed any difference on hot days that's really worth my time to investigate.
The overtemp handle only seems to be an issue when the ambient temperature is 90s-100s, and the connector heating caused by high ambient temps mimics an overtemp charging process. Can’t the ambient temperature become an input to the charging algorithm, to avoid derating simply because the environment is hot? We in the summer South wonder….
"It's not hard". I can't wait for Kyle to come out with his charging implementation. Lol 😂. , I'm sure is super easy, Tesla just doesn't want to do it. 😂
Still too easy to detect that. The drop in temperature will still show up, just before charging. One needs to only let the handle slowly heat up. Even then, it is still detectable by differential temperatures compared to ambient temps.
They need to up their cable replacement program and actually replace all these cables that are overheating. I don't think they're keeping up with the cable maintenance anymore. If you actually bother to look inside the cable before plugging it, a lot of them have messed up connectors.
They responded when a high profile channel like out of spec (who should know better) ACTIVELY promoted this "trick". Showing it on video many times is the same thing as promoting it despite what Kyle says in this video.
@@LarryEngel-b1b you could also have a little battery powered fan with a clip that you aim at the handle. That would actually work AND be more in line with the design of how the handle is supposed to work.
I'd never consider doing it, but A SC has never throttled my charging. Only a normal charging curve. But my road trips are not a race to Vegas. I would never do this trick.
If the sensor is not intended to keep the handle cool, then it is a poorly placed sensor. As Kyle has stated, what is the difference between a wet rag on the handle and rain/snow on the handle? Also, where are the examples of cars/superchargers damaged using the wet rag?
It may cool the charging handle , but, it does nothing for the car side of the connection. By doing this you risk damaging the car side of the connector, which would be a bummer and expensive to repair. Tesla could model the IR heating of the handle and adjust the current without a sensor.
Why are super chargers outdoors at all? Why wouldn’t they start building them in a covered garage with shops and food courts, etc. Building indoors is fine since electric cars do not emit anything.
It's in the channel name OUT OF SPEC. Of course they were going to come up with cheats. But it's nice to see Tesla address the practice - hopefully they'll fix the underlying problem in time.
Tesla is being somewhat disingenuous when they say that someone who uses a wet rag to PREVENT overheating is actually CAUSING overheating. They should be happy that someone is trying to protect their equipment, but no, they just want to mess with people who are just trying to get a quicker charge by moderating the temperature of the connector.
If it’s a skin contact temperature issue, cooling the exterior accomplishes the goal of reducing skin burn risk. I guess now you just need to put the rag on first then start charging.
Tesla Supercharging is derating to keep it cheaper to make. Do a cost analysis of adding NACS cables to 3rd party chargers to see how thick/liquid cooled they need to be to support that fat curve, vs a derating session.😊
All of the heat issues go away with the switch to higher voltage systems. More amps = more heat. Double the voltage, half the amperage, use the same hardware and these issues go away.
