Tesla won the plug war - and that's good news! 

Musk isn’t a trustworthy steward of anything. He’s reckless, careless, and reactionary.

I have never clicked faster on a video. Thanks for making this... essay Alec!

Correction here: CCS can handle 1500V and 800A. Please check the current standard (IEC 62196-1:2022, Edition 4 from 2022). Otherwise the video is spot on.

When I head the news, I actually thought of TechnologyConnections.

Fast charging hurts your battery health!!!

but but but we need to install our walled garden so everyone believes they HAVE to use us as if our widget somehow makes the electrons special!!!! And dont worry, I have a Taiwanese cousin whos really good with computers, so my aunt tells me, and I will get him to do the interface. So we can save there on our multibillion dollar venture...... Serious talk though....its what they CHOOSE to be cheap on that should worry us.....

One of those hoops that I hope is removed is the requirement to own/use a smartphone or register for an "account" to charge - someone should be able to walk up to a charger and anonymously pay cash. No app, no checking account or credit card. Or if bill acceptors on exposed terminals is an issue, then perhaps be able to walk into a convenience store and buy a "prepaid" anonymous card that they could then use to pay for charging.

@@r6u356une56neybro, you are driving a giant mobile phone that reports its location every minute and you are worried about privacy??? If you care about privacy then buy a car from early 2000s and make sure OnStar in removed if the car comes with it

Seriously, if the mess that is the charging infrastructure was a thing gas stations did over in the gasoline world, people would absolutely riot. And rightfully so. It's mind boggling that we as consumers just accept this mess as a fact of life in the EV world.

Strangely accurate description you got there bud

Absolutely. Went to a pizza place that didn't have internet at the time I went in and they ceased to be a pizza place. Apparently they weren't backward compatible with paper menus and cash only.

All the companies just want your sweet sweet data. Many times they don´t even know what to do with it so they just collect it, but noway they will just let you pay anonymously by card without making a two page long log about you and your enviroment first.

@@John-zh1ud Personally I refuse to patronize businesses that don't have paper menus or take cash.

@@ChaosTherumWelcome to Sweden. The cashless country. Here you use credit card, or maybe debit card, and mobile payment (called Swish). Cash is more and more rare.

As a devops engineer who meets fucking programmers on their worst on a daily basis, I wish nothing had software in it. But yeah 24 cores and 96gigs of memory seems fair for a todo app.

LOL

Electrify America is the "community service" that Volkswagen had to carry out as its sentence for Dieselgate, and gets all the attention and care you'd expect from a court-mandated reparation effort.

It’s almost like that’s part of being an early adopter of EV’s.

I don't think DC Charging can resemble Gas Stations due to overall lower usage. With Gas Stations all vehicles fill up at them 99% of the time, with DC Fast Charging these are generally only used when doing longer journeys or where drivers can't charge at home/work. I hope they will improve but I don't think the economics will work

​@@Pegaroo_thats why he said "at least on major highways" Highways will get dedicated DC charging stations. Taking a 30min rest is normal even when you just stopped to fill your tank. So when charging the same thing will be an economical option. So city gasstations might disappear, but everything else will probably remain just changed

@@1996Horst I just don't see them having 24/7 manned services. It would be nice if it happens for the folks that need help with plugging in but it always comes down to money, is it profitable to have someone there all the time when 99% of folks don't need the help. Unless it's legislated otherwise companies will go with the cheapest option

That's my biggest gripe with EV infrastructure now. Apps and subscriptions annoy me. Just let me tap my credit card and charge me.

If you disagree your net has never stopped.

Or indeed a WiFi connection. I can it's possible to have a use for a fridge that can reorder (store on a remote list app) what you use perhaps but I can see NO REASON for a kettle to have a WiFi connection,

my telescope needs an app to use from indoors. so what? my paper OS map needs an app to function as a satnav device. lots of things have extra value by being combined with an app. I think you should more carefully consider the battles you fight.

@@KarldorisLambley It's not about having an app for certain functionalities or in certain scenarios, it's about needing an app to use its basic functions where this is not necessary at all - or just to save some money on the OEM side. For the telescope example: You say it needs an app to work from indoors - but that doesn't mean it needs an app to work *at all*. That's the difference. Why would it need an app if you could, for example, just plug it into a laptop an control it from there? Or another personal example: We have a TV recorder that will only work with an internet connection. It's not IPTV, it's for cable. The signal is there. You can't even watch recordings without an internet connection. Why? It's for the greedieness of Vodafone. It's not like you pay monthly anyway so they could just check at the beginning of every month, no it needs to be connected to a rather unstable (cause Vodafone) internet connection all the time for no reason.

@@KarldorisLambley so as soon as the company that made the app goes under, you are left with a useless brick, nice

Are there no apps like gas buddy that have prices?

@@TheMysteryDriver Oh there are (at least in part, not every public charger is on there), and I could be accused of being a bit old fashioned at this point but I personally don't care to go into an app, click individually on each different station, try to remember the different prices and flick through about five or six in the area. Plus, to me, the broader point is that by advertising prices like gas stations do, it incentivises a degree of price competition among the various charging speeds. It's a lot harder for naughty little chargers that cost three times as much as others to hide out in the open, and I think it would facilitate the transition away from ICE cars. Plus you also get technical barriers of the stations needing to be visible - there are 24 new stations in my town installed by the local council and none of them are on any of the mapping sites. And every time the rates change, those stations need to be able to broadcast those rates to a lot of third-party sites. Plus prices can change based on the time of day, unlike gas which typically only changes once per day at most. It's just a lot more "fidgety" than I want, ignoring the fact that I'm going to have to switch to yet another app for the charger I use to initiate the session. In my ideal world, we'd colour code charging speeds (for example

@@TheMysteryDriver when driving along looking for a charger you can't really get your phone out and check an app...

​​@@DreadpirateflappyYou should be planning ahead no? Tesla's tablet-like interface makes it easy to pull all this info. Technology is good here, it means you don't drive an extra couple miles to visually check the next station just to go d'oh and have to turn around to save a few dollars.

​@@xipalips...and *exactly that attitude* is one of the huge roadblocks to encouraging people to voluntarily switch to obligate plug-in EVs. Most people dont want to *have* to pre-plan and chart their road trips in advance like a pilot.

same in europe

Wait isn't France in Europe?

@@Dudofall rural europe i meant

They will have to adjust a little bit, since the turnaround time is so much longer and you kinda need to expect to be servicing more cars at the same time because of that if you want even remotely similar throughput, but yeah I agree on the whole.

They’d become more like truck stops. Expectation is folks being there at least a half hour, often longer.

Buccees style with a hundred station, arcade/diner or something inside to keep people entertained who want to get out of the car would be smart

It needs to be different, but same principle, offer the dry place to stand to connect the car. You do not want to do it in rain. But it needs to be drive through, so no reversing. Low roof, some simple sheet metal cover. Actually the others needs to step out front of the main building, and then driver go to put can in charger. So no kids running in the danger and no need for everyone walk under rain from charging station to main building. You need as well have a clock on top of the charger to show someone how long car is still being in there. So you can line up behind it for your turn, when there is high traffic... As 20+ stations is hard to do, and only few can do 40+.

yessss! I just want the squeegie PLEASE

Ooh, very true. It's like having to borrow somebodies payment card. The lendee might keep receipts and the onus is on the lender to review it all or view their statement.

Do people really lend out their cars and then get an@lly retentive about the exact cost of the gas/electricity used? I'm not lending my car out to anyone who's going to use so much gas that it becomes relevant and who I don't already have a respectful relationship to know they'd do the right thing (whether that be throw a few bucks or a six pack my way).

@@Thermalions I agree with you, but in the real world, people put their cars on Turo and stuff.

@@DavidJao Never heard of Turo. Looking at their website seems like the closest vehicle is over 400km away (there's only a single vehicle) and next closest is about 700km from me.

@@DavidJaoAn easy solution to that would be to look at the average charging costs incurred when renting out the vehicle, and then roll that into the rates being charged.

I have to respectfully disagree. It seems to me that not having to use those plastic rectangles would result in less credit card fraud. Some people still use Debit cards and illegal card readers coupled with the pin pads that records a cardholders pin code is a very serious problem. It seems to be me that the Plug and Charge model would reduce or even eliminate such credit and debit card fraud. Of course, criminals are always looking for new ways to defraud people, so it wouldn't surprise me if, in the future, someone discovers a ways to defraud EV owners using Plug and Charge, but i believe that the current credit card architecture is definitely not as secure as you think.

@@chasiubow168 I just carry cash. No electrical or fraud problems whatsoever. Electric should be used for goods that are disposable and replaceable, because it is nearly impossible for the lay man to repair.

​@@chasiubow168ah, the "but sometimes" argument that this channel repeatedly mentions. You know theft can happen with everything, including cash? In fact, cash technically belongs to whoever is holding it in that exact moment. If you lose it in any way, it's not your money anymore. If my credit card gets stolen, I can turn off my card and overturn any fraudulent charges made. If someone steals my cash, it's just gone. No way I'm getting it back unless I somehow catch the thief or get my belongings returned to me after they've been caught by the authorities. Any fraudulent charge, even ones made with keypad pin code recorders, can be overturned by turning off your card and contacting your bank, and reporting it as fraud. After that, you get a new card with a new pin within 3-5 business days and you're good to get using it again. It's a mild inconvenience, but in the meantime you could use a different card, or just use cash. Also, automatic pay systems like plug and charge are.... Not very secure with their payment information. They're about as good as any other app, like McDonald's or Walmart. They can be compromised. That's why we have failsafes in the event that these systems are compromised. Also, It's still technically credit/debit card fraud if the payment information is recorded for a service. Just saying.

@chasiubow168 CREDIT fraud under US law: The credit company has to take the loss, not the customer. (2) Paying with credit or cash should still be an option. Imagine going to a store, and every one of them demanded you setup an account. The walmart account. The JCPenney account. The target account. The amazon account. BS on that. Just take my credit card or cash that works universally with everyone.

CCS will accept debit cards. As far as fraud is concerned, since the vast majority of small purchases everywhere outside the US are now contactless, adding EV charging has a negligible effect. Nothing else needs a subscription so why should EV charging be different?@@chasiubow168

And I watched the entire video living in a country that isn't affected by any of this!

Both comment and reply are true for me too. In fact, I don't even have a driver's license xD

both the comment and replies, same

At this point, we’re all just future EV owners so it’s worth being informed at the least

@@meaettreally depends on the country. If one decides they wont switch, and their country wont mandate it, all the remaining fuel in the world remains for that country, and prices will basically drop to almost nothing as it will be the only market that buys it. I know i will stick to ICE cars until they will make driving your own car illegal.

Isn’t Waze owned by Google? Why not put the effort into OpenStreetMap?

I think we'll never have a TRULY accurate charge state map. Simply because, some percentage of failed units will fail after working on one car, while it is not in use, so no one (nor the internal diagnostics) will know it has failed until another car attempts to charge on it.

You could just let users report them as broken or not working. Oh right LOL Waze doesn't listen to user reports! How foolish of me.

​@@slightlyevolvedtruly accurate? No, we won't. 99%? We sure could get there! Not happening right now, though.

@@matejlieskovsky9625 Even gas stations have these issues. Nothing is perfect, but it should be easier with electric! Eventually. Having a frustrating electric experience comes down to density. If a gas station runs out, is closed, or is reported wrong, you don't blame gas engines for it because you can just go to the next station. Usually. I think that's where anti-EV misses the mark so far. Once there is more availability, those instances of failure will sting much less and the map will provide many alternative options.

Starting to see that in the US as well. A new gas station that was built in my neighborhood also has Tesla superchargers. Weirdly, the Tesla superchargers have no canopy so that was a miss, but gas stations are beginning to include EV charging at least.

@@tboneforreal I've used a Wawa, in the rain, with my Model Y. It isn't that bad getting a bit of rain on while plugging in and then unplugging. I've also used a gas station to fill up my old car in a rural area and they didn't have a canopy, and it was pissing it down. Standing next to the pump and getting drenched absolutely sucked.

@@stevemulcahy5014 the difference being that you have to hold the pump trigger the whole time you are filling the tank, whereas with an EV you insert the connector and walk away,

​@@gregbailey45don't you have those little tabs that you can engage so you don't have to hold the trigger? In any case: EVs are the future, but holding a lever for 60 seconds is simply not a big deal, not even compared to getting charging cables out of the car and plugging them in.

@@gregbailey45 I think that’s the point I was making. But yes, exactly that. Canopies don’t matter so much at superchargers for the human aspect or the equipment’s resilience, but third party chargers with poorly weather sealed card readers need them.

That sounds excellent! Could you post the title of an webpage about this if you remember it?

I don't want to pay for it

Do charging networks get disabled for stolen cars? This could make a dent in car thieves income 😊

@@geoffhaylock6848 you think car thieves have an income? They steal a car and joyride crash it later or dive till caught. Very few stolen cars are able to be sold/exported/chopped up 99% is teenager's

@@frostedlambs If you can't charge the car you can't drive until caught. You drive until the battery is dead. BEV's work on rechargeable batteries not Duracell's. The teenagers can't run into Walmart and steal a bunch of double A's. You might be surprised to hear this but..... There are professional car thieves!!! I know, shock horror!!!

still love how to this day yoy can buy itmes that use MINI USB no not micro usb, mini usb. like i bought a av to hdmi adapter to run my gamecube on a modern tv wich the adapter was powered by a mini usb cable (ps the mini cable that came in the box was super short as well making it hard to put in a conveint place) but eventully it stoped working. but now i cant test wether its the converter or the cable cause i dont have another mini cable or another dev8ce powerd by mini.(also its not the actule av cables cause i pluged those into a older flatscreen that still had av plugs and it worked just fine

@@mohawk1010 The tech world has always been a cable nightmare. Everyone has a box of unused cables in their basement because there is no shortage of standards.

It really doesn't help that Telsa still keeps their chargers purposefully locked-down. Even if you were a third party that adopted the NACS, your cars still can't charge without an explicit agreement with the Tesla corporation. By comparison, this would be like emailing a friend not working unless your two email providers have signed an explicit commercial deal. Until this problem is solved EVs will always be behind combustion cars that can just take gasoline from anywhere it's sold.

@@Blaze6108 Emailing a friend indeed does not work, unless the internet service providers involved have signed an explicit commercial deal, or have an indirect connection through other commercial deals, or you and your friend and your email servers have the same ISP.

@@chaklee435 You will notice my analogy is about the email protocol, and not ISPs. We could go into the details about how that's not really how ISPs work either, but that's beyond the point.

Not a fan of this idea.

It's too easily automated to have staff. It doesn't have all of the infrastructure and records a gas station needs either. Dunno about your place but where I worked for a bit you need careful records of every delivery of gas with tank change readouts attached, and physical records of all of that have to be kept going back 3 years.

I will say it would be nice to have options that did not rely so heavily on a credit card payment AND a functioning app AND cellular/Wi-Fi connection (granted, these last two apply if not using a physical credit card to pay at the console, if even allowed that option, which some places crazily do not). Maybe the locations could work out using/creating pre-loaded cards made through a machine that accepts cash.

@@scout360pyroz @Mr.HansBischoff you guys do realizes that gas station isnt just for refueling, right? they have convenient stores, washroom, cafe, some even have a motel and a repair garage.. gas station are often a place for driver to take short break additional to refueling... so i really dont see a downside for recharging station to mimic a gas station... i mean, EV drivers are still human... right?

@@zerocalvin Thats not a gas station. that is a laundromat/handymart combo or more that HAPPENS to have a gas station attached.

Not quite the same, but I want to get a fast ebike (which I'd have to register as a motorbike where I am, but no biggie) and then lug a bluetti and some flex panels to my job just once, free recharge! (most days). Also the car park is fairly secure and I live in a civilised country. If you leave such expensive toys out in the open in, say, the UK, you're basically just giving them to somebody.

Yes, with solar panels for direct sun to battery and at parking lots too, plus they cover the cars.. more please

Just curious, what's your commute distance? Wouldn't it be better to slow charge at your home during the night, when the electricity rates are at their lowest tier?

People with gas powered cars are always parked at them where I work. There are probable 3 emails per week about it, but nothing changes. :|

You drive to work, leave the car in a charging bay (so nobody else can use that charger), then drive it home again. CATCH THE BLOODY BUS!

I *do* think there are problems with Musk winning but for reasons that are entirely unrelated to the technology itself.

'.....It is nothing more than an ego blow.' that really helped, just seeing it typed out is therapeutic. TC, I always knew that he was grande.

While presenting a perfect model of humility, he maintains levity: "they're not jusr girthy, they're also quite long... 30 millimetres"...

My respect skyrockets for people who are objective and just change their stance on new information. THAT is how you improve yourself, and know the person is indeed a smart person. Even smart person's make mistake, but the real smart person's are those who constantly improve themselves.

​@@HermanWillemsI rejoice every time I'm proven wrong because it means I'll be less wrong in the future.

It wouldn't be a good idea for consumers at all to have one company monopolize manufacturing of compatible fast-charging stations. Let's hope that sort of dire dystopia doesn't happen.

It happens sometimes. I've seen Sheetz gas stations with a bank of Tesla Superchargers, and various gas stations with CCS charging stations. It's not all just Walmarts (although, it's usually Walmarts) And I stopped at a rest area on the Florida Turnpike and it had banks of Tesla and CCS charging stations. That's like, the definition of where to take a rest stop. I don't know if it sold gas but it's still a big convenience store with security. The lack of a canopy there was lame, I'll admit.

guess your prediction came true.. BP and EG Group/ev point ordered a few of them

Here in Europe you absolutely do not need to buy chargers from an oligopoly operator.

BP is.... and they put in an order for like $100M worth of Tesla Superchargers.

Not really, I mean he just has to import his script he is reading from right?😅

@@Jcreamy513 He probably still has to time all the scripts to the videos, which unfortunately is the bulk of the work involved in subtitling.

​@@RainingBulletsRU-vid is pretty good at auto timing. You can just take the auto generated subtitles and replace the text with your script. Still takes work, of course, but a lot easier than it was before RU-vid.

Normally the end card has some... interesting content as well only in the CC, but this video didn't have one so I guess you'll just have to go watch more of his videos if you haven't been watching them with captions on

​@@DavidJaoYou can pass your own script to RU-vid and it'll use your own formatting and even typos. It still has some issues (subtitles don't disappear when you don't speak, for example), but it's pretty good for what it has to do.

The question still can be raised, “why the F Did it take this long for him to come to reason?” As an engineer, I’m blown away it took him this long. Stunned, actually.

@@GET2222 backing CCS was a completely reasonable position at the time. CCS had a massive headstart as an industry standard while NACS was still being held as proprietary. The vast majority of the industry had coalesced around it. It seemed like if Tesla was going to release NACS as a standard, it should have been done long ago.

@@MegaBrokenstar CCS has so many problems. TESLA is basically telling everyone that the software in the car should communicate better to the device is plugged into. Why do you even need a card at all when your car is connected to a card already? People swipe pumps everyday that are hacking their account. This prevents that.

Definitely NOT the case in Britain. The vast majority are canopyless and completely unlit at night - even the ones housed AT existing fuel stations (I'm looking at YOU, BP, Shell are at least lighting their chargers and the area where someone might need see at night to plug in)

@@miscbits6399 You Brits are officially not in Europe anymore 😝

And yet you won't pay less to charge your car if they installed them.

Just in case you wondered: No, the solar panels on a canope would not be enough to charge your car by themselves. But every little bit helps I guess.

@@BurningTrapezoid Of course not, but as you mention, every available place should be used.

EVs needs to use GPS to route to fast chargers so the cars knows how far they are from the chargers and thus can precondition the batteries to accept fast charging. Just looking for a sign and pull in to plug in will not give you the benefit of charging fast.

@@michaelchien1236 While true, preconditioning isn't required, and doesn't invalidate highway signs. Highway signs are important for locating fuel when you are running low unexpectedly, or are unfamiliar with the area you are driving through. Not everyone is driving with a passenger, and it's unsafe to set a GPS location while driving down the highway. (Not every EV has good hands-free navigation to charging). If your battery is low and already warm from driving, it will charge at essentially the maximum rate anyway, and all you need to know is what exit to take to find an acceptable charger. Ideally the provider, the kWh range available, and if we're feeling ambitious, a live count of available stalls would be enough information to decide whether or not to exit.

@@diggoran Is there an EV without satnav though? (Well, one that takes a modern charging port, anyway?) If every car that needs to find a charging port has the map of charging ports on it, what's the issue? Keep down the annoying sign clutter, IMHO.

@@FuckGoogle502 I agree the signs do introduce a lot of clutter that I would love to see disappear. However I was simply trying to call it out as infrastructure that exists to aid gas car drivers that isn’t in place for ev drivers. And while gps or satnav is widely supported, it is also dangerous to use while driving unless you are willing to use voice commands and trust whatever option is automatically selected is the best choice for your car or journey. The signs on the highway are safer to use while driving, and some include live elements like the current price (charge speed and wait time would be more relevant for ev drivers, probably).

@@FuckGoogle502 Is there an EV without satnav? Yes, your EV as soon as your satnav stops working. Also its just a lot more user-friendly to look where you're going to find a fill station instead of looking on some kind of internal electronic GPS and following directions.

Ya, around here there are charger stations at malls of different kinds

I agree with you. Stunned that this model has not taken off yet. I’ve been so surprised that the chargers are just sitting out in the open, with nothing around them, no employees and no security.

If you're driving long enough to kill a fully charged EV battery, then you should probably be taking a reasonable break from driving when you're on E anyways. If you have a 300 mile EV range, then you're looking at 4-6 hours on the road before that needs recharging. Sounds like a good time to have a meal break to me.

In fact, the very design of a Buc-ee's gas pump system makes its amenable to upgrading to EV charging in the future. I can see by 2040 most of the current gas pumps will all be replaced by DC chargers that support up to 512 kW initial charging rate.

Might revitalize small towns along the highway now, you could put the chargers in or near the town center, which would help local businesses instead of building an entirely new complex like buckees. Granted there might not be a small town where needed, but I'd like to think there were

Moar jazz, moar puppy edits

WHERE'S THE JAZZ??????????

Absently smooth jazz :(

Yeah, what happened to the smooth jazz outro with the funny extra remarks in the subtitles?

Jazz? I never thought of it as jazz. More like 90s high school science video theme music

Wrong NACS is backwards looking anticompetitive technology.

Personally, I like the puppies best.

​@@Agh42 Logical puppies! This channel is the best.

The only way to convince a scientist is facts with logic. Other arguments will not work.

​@@jurjenbos228Ha, if only the same could be said for politicians. Imagine!

there's no logic in holding a grudge against Tesla

One thing to bear in mind is that the throughput for gas pumps will likely be a lot higher for the forseeable future so costs will easier to justify (though trashcans, fair enough). The canopy makes sense too because people are basically outside the whole time they're filling where for an EV, you'd basically only be outside long enough to plug in and it wouldn't being used the rest of the charging cycle. Though with that said, I think solar powered canopies could be good for many parking spaces even without charging.

@@mckidyl70 | Nightmare scenario: The can lid stays maglocked unless you have the app open with NFC active.

More widely-adopted and established technology better supported than novel technology. More news at 8.

@@snoekbaars7757 I'm not sure I understand what point you're trying to make with your comment. Are you saying that because gas is more widely used, simple things such as windshield washing stations and trash cans make less sense at EV charging stations?

@@ZSchrink I was misunderstanding the comment. Excuses.

I think it's the same all over Europe now. We implemented the same in Greece.

What a shock, Norway passes even MORE laws. 🙄

That’s what we need. The best I know of here in the us is the latest electric code requires a (single) branch circuit installed in a garage for future ev use…. A single.. 20amp 120v outlet…

​@@ElConquistedorthat sounds painfully slow

@@ElConquistedor That's like mandating a gasoline pump in each garage. When EVs can be charged in under five minutes and authorities stop asking people to not charge their vehicles when it's not out, then and only then might they become practical. That and build a LOT more nuclear power plants.

There’s no such thing as “progress”. That’s Whig History nonsense. Please read more John Gray and Oswald Spengler.

@@_peters6221state-backed fiat currency has been a disaster.

Meanwhile getting ICE cars to far lower CO2 emissions than that of EVs costs a fraction of what the world-record massive (totalitarian, forced) revolution of mandated EVs cost us, and avoids destroying our economy (making us unable to invest in CO2-reducing projects), our markets, and so many lives. And with working on ICE fuels we get lower CO2 system-wide *_immediately_* instead of having to change all cars over many decades, destroy the West geopolitically and get ourselves under that one certain huge Asian nation's hegemony by buying all our tech and cars, at least battery minerals from them...made with energy from their thousands of coal-powered plants, and made with essentially slave labour. At least about 30% of them are already now cleaner than EVs using fossil fuels, and the ICE cars are easily ALL instantly made far lower than all EVs in CO2 emissions by changing their fuel at almost no cost at all! So many of us in Europe have been driving our ICE cars at far lower CO2 emissions than EVs for years and years, costing us only a few hundred more per year (or in the case of people driving on biomethane it costs LESS than fossil fuels!). Compare that to the tens of thousands in extra costs EVs cause...not to mention destroying so many lives: the human toll from forced EVs is an absolute tragedy!

There's a genuine chance that this video or at least it's points will be raised with Elon Musk at some point. He is a huge nerd for product feedback.

@@Doctaphil64 Yeah, that's why he ran Twitter into the ground.

Yeah I'd rather have an ordinary charging station with kWh meter and be able to pay with cash to the cashier Credit cards and bank account are becoming more convenient, but regular cash money is still unbeatable to this day, especially in emergency situation

Real question. Are credit card based gas pumps not dependent upon a remote connection? I have had more issues with out of service gas pumps than EV stations.

@@sixty-six No. Card payments can be made offline and transmitted at a later time. They won't be able to do the pre-charge though so they may limit how much you can pump.

@@chaos.cornercan but they don’t

As an ICE driver I can only compare the situation with filling up at a local gas station. I think right now the problem is that DC fast chargers are often set up by themselves at the end of a Walmart parking lot. A lot of the issues with the charging networks could be fixed by setting them up like a gas station. Gas pumps typically have both pay at the pump and pay inside options at a minimum. Ice pumps are also covered to keep the owners out of bad weather and staff than can help with any issues.

Almost every supercharger I've been to is in a shopping mall with restaurants, stores, entertainment, etc. I think there's like 2 out in the desert that have nothing but a convenience store nearby.

​@@darrennew8211but they still don't have things like, wash buckets, roofs, or attendants. Roofs would be great for solar too

@@evilhamsterman Well, right. But if you're in a shopping mall parking lot where the other cars aren't under roofs either, I'm not sure what the problem is. Go into the mall if it's too hot. I was just pointing out that I've never been to a supercharger that didn't have a restaurant or deli like the person I was responding to said. And most of them have an entire place you can amuse yourself for the half hour it takes to charge even if you're not hungry. It's true they don't have wash buckets, but I grew up driving in the 70s and I still find it amazing that gas stations won't sell you washer fluid or engine oil or tires, either, so there's that. I stick a squeegee in my trunk and don't worry about it.

The one I saw in Norway, a Circle K it even had the bucket with windshield wiper. The canopy’s even had solar panels.

Even though I'm sure that oil companies don't want to do anything to help promote EV's, I'm honestly surprised that no gas station chains in the US have decided to start including charging stations as well, or as pointed out in the video, at least truck stops. Plus, people sitting at a charger for 20 minutes or more are a captive audience. They will definitely shop in the convenience store while waiting for their car to charge

Doubly so because you can't actually see any damage to the insulation when it's in your walls.

Which presumably means they can just go balls to the walls and replace their cables often?

@@Lord_zeel it starts as an estimate how often charging occurs, a temperature profile and finally expected life is estimated. maybe even the temperature is measured (would make sense since ambient temperature wildly varies), and power is throttled such that even "often" is not that often, or is as often as anticipated. That's the level I'd expect from an engineering team that is pressed to minimize cost.

Electrician here. That’s why conductors are derated in these cases.

Some states have a 'right to charge' law which allows the renter to install their own charger (either an outlet for one or hardwired). And in some of those cases the landlord legally cannot stop you. You'd still have to work out how to pay the electricity use with the property owner of course. It's worth looking into and worth the cost of install if you plan to stay at a given place for a few years or more.

In Norway it is illegal to deny EV chargers in such situations.

​@@VirtuellJoIf only we all lived in civilized countries 🥲

Eventually, landlords will start to see car charging as an easy revenue stream, alongside laundry machines. Already, I've heard stories of places where renting a parking space with access to even a simple wall plug costs upwards of $100/month. Unfortunately, there are not yet enough EVs to make the business case clear, especially with the vast majority of current EV drivers being homeowners, rather than renters. There's a chicken and egg cycle here where renters won't buy EVs until landlords install chargers, but landlords won't install chargers until enough of their tenants buy EVs. If the government really wants to break this cycle (e.g. for pollution/climate change reasons), I think the only way to do it for the government to simply offer big subsidies to the landlords to get it done, while also doing the same for employers to maximize the odds that people who can't charge at home can at least charge at work. Unfortunately, governments don't seem particularly interested in this problem because the people with lots of money are all homeowners, and can install their own chargers, so the government's interest is focused on fast chargers in travel corridors for people road-tripping instead.

@@ab-tf5fl Those subsidies literally exist in many states though, they'll often pay for most/all of the install cost of a EVSE

Thoes cuts are there 😂 but that's from. Him messing up his lines not just from him rambling

I also appreciate the fact that he doesn't edit out any and all dead silence, like all the other youtubers do... give me a spot to pause the video and not interrupt a sentence!

@@theunwelcome It's a natural silence that you normally get during lectures or presentations. Also, editing in things like the puppy interlude was very useful, both in terms of the discussion and the footage.

Good point. I hate those jump cuts. They always make the speaker seem so insincere when there's a lot of them.

There are likely dozens if not hundreds of speech edits throughout this video. The difference is he knows how to properly mask them with B-roll.

tell your friends to stop using dropdowns for states, stop using slide-through calendars for dates on apps.

@@cardenfoy Mobile apps are uniquely a shitty form of "software engineering" Often, the apps you interface with were made by interns, or by people with web-dev type skills, not dedicated experienced programmers. As to why they're so bad? It's a partially walled garden, and the users of phones accept mediocrity for some unknown reason, that frustrates me enough that if it weren't a walled garden, I'd just go make every app I needed.

Get an f150 lightning then

@@jasonmyneni8605 well the hybrid F-150 also operates as a generator that can do this too.

Technology Connections has a video on doing just that with his Hyundai Ionic 5. I think that video is on his other channel. It blows my mind that Tesla still doesn't offer that. I guess they must still be concerned about power wall sales?

I wonder how much energy is stored in them compared to say, in of those Tesla battery packs you hang on your garage wall?

Okay, getting a car that is bi-curious is the easy bit. How do you get plug your whole damn house to it? Pluggin in one toaster or hair dryer is one thing, three-phase power and running a heatpump is another. The initial current draw on those things is ENORMOUS!

If I know anything I know that people are going to scoff at whatever price dealers charge for the adapter and buy a $7 one off Amazon which very likely won't have such protections built in. I look forward to the anti-EV crowd pointing to melting plug adapters causing charging station fires as yet another reason this "experiment" has "failed". Honestly, I would rather have a charger with CCS and adapt it to NACS than the other way around. Less chance that AC power goes down the DC lines or vice versa. The more I learn about NACS the more it feels like a poorly thought out venture for one car company to cash in on everyone else's charging.

People already do this with insufficiently thick extension cables. Other than adding verified adapter licenses, it will be hard to stop people from cheaping out to save $10 on their $30k+ vehicle

I would like the chargers to “soft start” charging as soon as plugged in, before validating payment. The charger could start the session, negotiate speed, activate relays, … basically everything besides sending electrons. It would save a few seconds.

@@Pileot That sort of thing already annoys me. It's like "there are plenty of Legitimate issues that need addressing. Why are you discrediting people trying to get those fixed by associating them with your completely made up nonsense?!". Happens with lots of things, both things where the actual problems being fixed so the thing can be usable is desired, and things where the problems are so great that you would never want the thing adopted. Very annoying.

@@Pileot It is absolutely this. Every time I hear "adapter," I see the bargain bins lined with 5-oz plastic devices with 8AWG wires inside, claiming to support "2000V 1800A".

I did always find it bizarre taking my Tesla to a gas station to top off my tire pressure. When I went inside for change for the coin-operated air machine, the nice gal just turned it on for free. I opted to buy a soda, since they clearly couldn't make it up by selling me gasoline 😂

And the air compressor would also be a self-serve, electrical, device. Seems like a no-brainer addition.

that would prolly be a great video

There's some Wawas that have EVGo charge stations as well.

It's going to be a battle. Gas stations are going to fight it and fight it until enough competitors give in.

I've seen a few Sheetz stations that have superchargers, too. It seems like a logical progression for the better sort of convenience store or truck stop to embrace having quick charging/supercharger stations and get some business out of people who will need to spend a half hour or so topping up their cars.

I’m in Australia, and the petrol station chains are already promoting fast charging EV parking bays. Many of them have already been built. In the same advertising they promote solar panels on the roof of the shop as a green initiative to offset the coal fired electricity that they’re using for 95% of the charging kW…. Yay, I’m charging using all 3kW from the rooftop solar array and 57kW from the grid. But wait, 2 others pull up to charge and have to share that. So technically I would only be seeing a maximum of 1kW from that array….. Still doesn’t stop them greenwashing us….

I’ve used an Electrify America station located at a Loves truck stop/gas station in Salina UT. It also lacked a canopy and pull throughs but had everything else you expect at a gas station.

Or General Electr---wait a minute!

@@crash.overridecall i GE for short XD

Not Electron! The 2 apps using this is already eating RAM like crazy.

​@@gluttonousmaximus9048that's what you get for trying to run web pages natively JUST USE A BROWSER

Well, knowing history.... we're eventually going to need a mobile electron too 😂

Wawa's started installing them here in Florida.. It's nice to charge and grab food while I wait.

The charging owner should want to keep them up. As an EV owner, I don't want to wait at a smelly, dirty gas station for 20 mins. I wish all charging stations had basic amenities, but at least a lot already do

Here in the Netherlands, there is often both a fast charging station and a few fast chargers at the gas station at the stop on the highway. The same card is used for payment at both. It's all ccs2.

Not gonna lie mate, but the idea of having gargantuan transformators really close to dozens of cubic meters of highly explosive substances makes me _really_ nervous...

My apartment garage has no connections or plans to install them.

Also notably, for those that have never visited a site like it, I visited the Kettleman City supercharger about a year ago on a road trip and the building wasn't just like a gas station. I would recommend people take a look on Google maps, there are a lot of photos of the Tesla Lounge to give you an idea of what they are like (there are over 2000 photos on Google Maps for it). Notably, it requires a code to enter, which was clearly visible in the car's display for the supercharger location. This is the same location where it will list things like gate codes to access third-party destination chargers at hotels, parking garages, etc. So the lounge isn't publicly open like a regular gas station would be, but is still accessible 24 hours a day even when there's no employees at the coffee bar, etc. Any they also added another 55+ superchargers across the road as well, but those are new and don't have the full canopy, etc. just outdoor chargers.

Yep, for most of the US population improved mass transit(even if it wasn't electrified) would do more good on several fronts than buying an electric car would. There's always outliers and exceptions, and they're discussed to death every time public transit's mentioned. And coming from a family of Tradesmen, yes, they're valid, but 90+% of vehicles aren't bringing one of the Plumbers or HVAC techs I know to fix your house, they're hauling one person to work or the store.

@@Joesolo13 I agree, though I will recommend you to post your comment in the main thread under the video and get more to see it, if you feel so inclined. We need more voices advocating for public transit. Great take though.

Amtrak is though regrettably a huge example of the failure of America's public transit system.

@@StopTryingSoHard Regrettably, but I do have hope moving forward.

In France on the highway I see regularly a big sign with all KW (and gas/diesel) prices for all pumps in the next 100KM. Around 6 or 7 stations usually.

Tesla lists it on their screen where you search for the nearest charger, I don't like some of the simplification of Tesla but it has a lot of things done right. "Specific pricing for each Supercharger site is shown on the selected pin's pop-up on your touchscreen."

​@@marijnlin Sweden too.

If it's not solving either more problems, or the same problems in more-practical ways, then it's not actually progress; it's just fucking around.

EU will make it mandatory to be able to pay with a card and in Norway it already is the rule, although the charging providers do not comply with it yet.

Part of the problem I have seen with the whole cool factor, seams to be poor implementation to cut costs resulting in the, cool thing, becoming more frustration than cool in the end. As he mentioned, a good chunk of the issues with 3rd party charging systems is implementation of their supporting services to support their main function.

The voltage(s) are set by the car, but let's say you're parked at a charger while watching a 2 hour movie. It would be much better for your battery life to have some way of saying "hey, tbh I only need level 2 charging" or whatever Also, as mentioned in the video, gas stations have tried to implement what you suggested and no one wanted it. Unless there's a standard for that too, I don't see it being the norm. At the very least, paying by card and cash should always be an option

​@@TechridrI don't really want 15 apps to pay for fuel to go on a road trip though, nor do I want the pain of trying to research if the charger I'm about to stop at supports whichever proprietary plug and charge protocol my EV vendor chose. And that's before factoring in all the privacy implications of having yet more companies gaining perpetual access to my payment details and personal information as Alec pointed out. It's really not that inconvenient to just slap your phone on the little radio symbol on a fuel pump, it requires a lot less R&D, and a lot less active management of perpetual subscriptions. Right now, I can just go to any fuel station I please and buy fuel, I don't need to think about what company owns it, I don't need to remember if I've got a subscription to their service, I don't need to download another stupid app to clutter my phone, it all just works. When I eventually get an EV, that's what I want, to be able to just pull up to any charger I choose and just slap my phone using NFC payments on the payment terminal and go from there. The only way I would accept plug and charge is if it effectively just implemented the same payment process as phone NFC payments using a standard payment processor, but I highly doubt that will happen, and in the mean time tapping a phone is just easier than dealing with multiple independent networks and implementations that refuse to talk to each other.

​@@TechridrAnd actually, there are "types" of supply. In the same way that diesel can be dispensed from high flow or low flow pumps, not all chargers support 800V charging, and not all chargers offer 350kW charging. Not quite the same thing but it's still important to pay attention to unless you want to annoy people with 300+kW capable vehicles while you slowly charge a Volt on one of the few fast chargers.

​@@Techridrin Australia you fill your car, then go inside and pay

Nah man you gotta make it quirky, futuristic, touch based and more importantly, incredibly stupid.

They tried to install chargers at a gas station in my town, but the town denied the construction, saying it would place too much strain on the local power grid

​@@jgood005nuclear power plants could solve that problem, and do it without higher emissions

@@mwbgaming28 That is only the case if the issue is generation. A nuclear power plant does nothing to improve energy transmission capacity. We do not know what exactly the issue with the local power grid is.

Usually it's not the generation of power that is the issue, it's the transport of it. In many places the electrical grid itself is overloaded. There simply aren't enough and thick enough wires to power everything. Yes, that is a very solvable issue, but it requires investment, and for profit companies tend to pay out the profit instead of actually expending their infrastructure to stay reliable into the future long term.

@@mwbgaming28 : rephrase to "without higher emissions at the outlet." (chill, just joking..) (of course lower emissions than conventional burning stuff - over a total lifecycle, without future storage) Actually the best use for nuclear (besides baseload) is to back the industrial might creating all of the green revolution components. (solar, Hydro, Wind - all or which need energy intensive processes, not directly suited to being powered by their own product.

I liked it too, but... I'm struggling to find the difference between that and credit card NFC use which just works everywhere.

@@undine120 SpeedPass was pre NFC payments. Like the first NFC payments I saw were in 2013 when the Nexus 7 came out, and that was at McDonald's only. I was using SpeedPass allllll the way back ten years earlier in 2003-2004. I think I stopped using SpeedPass around 2012, maybe 2013, I forget when I no longer had a station that had the readers for it.

2 dollars here, 5 there a few more cents for that little thing and before you know it, you are spending a couple of hundred extra per vehicle while producing millions of vehicles per year... yes, every cent saved can become a nice sum of money in the end.

@@Hans-gb4mv A nice sum of money for who? Not me.

I think a big problem is the additional costs involved in all of that, from capital to land to additional employee pay, that would raise prices to customers perhaps higher than customers would be willing to pay for the option.

I think it's an infrastructure and usage thing. There aren't enough electric car drivers to justify something that big. The networks out there apparently can't afford to keep their current chargers in good condition. Tesla has a vested interest in keeping theirs working as their car business requires a reliable charging network.

@@chaos.corner but the network's also rely, even more completely, on the same thing, keeping their chargers up and able to charge. But yep, if there aren't enough customers then it makes especially little sense to increase capital and operational costs to build the more expensive stations to serve fewer customers. Really a large part of why gas stations look the way they do are because of things that don't apply to electric charging, from ideas about the safety of the fuel through the established supply chain and market for the gasoline itself. In a way it's kind of nice that charging stations can make an evolutionary jump past all of those practices that keep gas stations looking like gas stations. Maybe you buy the energy more at cost without issues of whether a bag of chips is subsidizing the fill up.

@@volkris I agree. It's the sign of a company not doing so well. Potentially in a death spiral. Either that or one that has captive audience and could do with some competition. So this change should show which.

Tesla thought about this already. (When your company's very survival hinges on these details, you sweat those details thoroughly. That's why the NACS design did everything right and CCS did not.) Fundamentally, EV charging is NOT like getting gas. Charging times are longer, of course, but there are more subtle differences. For example, owners of gas cars MUST buy 100% of all their gas from a gas station, leading to a guaranteed and captive market, but public chargers are only rarely used by most EV owners, who can just charge at home. A gas station moves a large amount of fuel per day, which has a high cost just for the fuel itself; an EV charger might charge cars only very sporadically, and the cost of the electricity is minimal compared to the cost of the charging station infrastructure. For all these reasons, the gas station model is not a good fit for public charging stations. What is a good fit? Just look at what Tesla has already done, and there's your answer.

There also should be a way to pay cash. A lot of people still do that for gas.

And then there's the depressingly common case of going through all that hassle and loading $20 credit into the network TO FIND THE CHARGE POINT WON'T TALK TO YOUR CAR! Good luck getting your money back in that case...

@miscbits6399 put a buck in to get started, and add more as it goes? Seems like that would be simple enough on the software side

@@spallwalker5683 yeah that could work, not sure how much kwh per dollar you get but perhaps it could just take change like a parking meter. Take anything up to a toonie.

With plug and charge (properly implemented) you don't need to fiddle with your phone or even pull out your wallet. You just plug it in, no using touch screens on the charger, your phone, or the car. It "just works". The payment details come from the car and it automatically starts paying for the amount of power you're consuming. The technology connections guy here is just utterly confused.

I think in the CCS vs NACs fight, the real missed-chance was adopting Europe's version of CCS. 3 Phase charging isn't *as* useful in North America, but it still has value in commercial settings. It'd be pretty useful for places like Malls, theme parks, etc where people will spend a few hours. They often have level 2s which are still helpful, but 3phase would do much more at a similar price point, vs the costs of even basic 50kw level 3s.

German super markets tried to implement the self check outs and didn't really understand that they still require monitoring to minimise theft. They basically just slapped 8 self checkouts in a dark corner and expected everyone to pay via an honor-system, which, needless to say, didn't really work. They then concluded that it can't and will never work and are now cutting back on self checkouts. It's honestly mind boggling. But back to topic, gas stations pretty much are self check outs already. You have mostly one or two employees monitoring 6 or more pumps, that nowadays already have a payment function.

@@Joesolo13 But ALL homes in EU have 3phase service so the EVs need to be configured the same. A 3phase home in US is exceedingly rare.

self-checkout still have attendants

I have to agree- canopies are a simple-to-install addition to many existing ports, and even some form of restrooms or vending machines might be a possible future amenity of charging ports. But I don’t think attendants will be added any time soon, unless we see full convenience store charging stations (or charging stations partnering with or in the further future replacing existing gas stations?), in which case the counter staff has a secondary role as port attendants. As you said, that’s simply not the trend in commerce these days. The reverse is true, that we are pushing further and further towards automated, self-run check-out solutions, in restaurants, grocery stores, and more. It would be inconceivable to me for a charging port company to add in human attendants as a selling point for their station; it would be the reverse of the “futuristic” trend, and we all know that these companies of all companies are the most desperate to be futuristic.

Woof! Get it? 😆

They exist in Europe. In the UK many "Petrol" stations have a few chargers (its soon to be legally required in the UK) We also have a dedicated "GridServe" which is rare but has the whole cafe, waiting area and every parking spot is a charger.

Which is perfectly normal in the EU !!! :) Why Europe does so many things better ?? Are Americans afraid to copy, because they are afraid to just copy what is good? USA you are free to copy all the good stuff of the EU. It's fine. We won't judge ok. Just google: FastNed and look at the pictures. Beautiful charging stations.

It's a chicken and egg problem, but with higher adoption rates gas stations will have to cater to the EV-crowd as well. It's starting in Europe and because of incentives Norway's come a long way with Circle-K and other gas station operators diversifying into electric charging.

@@nnthepirate True, however here in Aus, most Petrol stations have car parks away from the pumps that could easily be used for EV charging.

Most new fule stations near me (DC metro area) have charging stations of some type

Lack of bathroom facilities is a deal breaker for families … little kids can’t wait to pee!

Good on them!

smart move, people who charge for 15-30 mins will def stretch their legs and shop

I see more and more gas stations adding some charging terminals. Being already a well known spot for re-fuelling your car probably provides them with many customers. Having a vacuum for cleaning and a sponge for the windshield are also important as told in the video.

@@joachimfrank4134 oh yeah absolutely. I have a big highway station about an hour from my house that has over a hundred pumps AND sixteen superchargers. can’t wait until they open up the network and I can charge my Audi there.

As someone who would charge their car for 30 minutes at a gas station, yeah I would stretch my legs and buy some stuff and wash my windshield. And you know that part in TechnologyConnection 's video where he talks about the sorry state of maintenance of charging stations? Well it's been out of order for months. It's basically been abandoned. Good job EVGo! (I'm glad I don't work near there anymore) @@oopszie

Could be they are afraid of any chance of a spark near gasoline vspors. After all, cigarette smokers blow up two gas stations in the US annually. (And the stations keep selling ciggies and lighters. Hmm.)

Every Wawa in FL that I have been to have charging stations, not sure why Sheetz doesn’t

When I was driving through Pennsylvania on my way to Cleveland, every Electrify America station on the turnpike was at a Sheetz

Travel Centers of America is rolling out charging stations soon.

@@lyfandethI would say the bigger issue is lack of room. Few gas stations have the space to have more vehicles parked for 30min to an hour or two.

I would be in favor of this also, in addition to free or lower-priced AC charging as a backup for maximum compatibility and to incentivize people who need to charge to 100% to free up a DC Fast Charging connector.

That's a cool idea and all, but implementing this would make it comically easy to steal power from public charging stations, so it's never happening.

@@lynnntropy There's nothing stopping people from doing that already from any outdoor outlet anywhere. What else are people going to do with AC power, anyway, in the middle of a parking lot?

With how the stations are at the far end of the lot, pretty sure it's going to become a homeless hotspot especially in the winter. I guess that's not too bad though, the homeless consistently on the streets generally aren't doing theft or vandalism.

The next iPhone in a few months might actually have USB-C... here's hoping. (If so, we can thank the EU for finally making that happen, and not with a little adapter.)

@@rickgreer7203 Doesn't the advent of inductive charging already make this a moot point though? I have a cheap pad at work and one at home which I can take with me on trips. Probably over 2 years since I plugged in my phone

Elon always wanted his standard to be open, thats why he never patented the charger, he also believes his system to be better and doesnt want to change its design, rather he would want all EVs to adopt his standard as it helps everyone.

I mean it did happen. That's one of the major points of the video.

This, and it should be CCS2

The World as we know it was basically built using horses, hammers, sailboats, steam engines, ropes, dogs, coal, wood etc. Studying the history of technology is enlightening. There is value in familiarity. There are Westinghouse generators at Wilson dam on the Tennessee River that are still working after 90 years, and provide power to 350,000 homes. Don't completely dismiss the Wisdom of the Ancients.

well, it has passed 1 decade already, how many more will come ??

pov: You realize that petroleum is basically Million Years Ago dead animal powered transportation.

Here in the city where I live in Brazil (200 000 population), It's not a rare sight to see a Horse Waggon transporting people and other things

​@@TheZenytramWe've had electric cars longer than gas cars. They've just always had significant disadvantages that still make them a bad idea for a lot of people. Like people who only have street parking and don't own their home.

This is a fair consideration!

Most gas stations over here let you choose the preauthorization amount, and simply stop the fuel when you hit the limit. Seems like the best solution for chargers as well?

​@@alexanderdekeuyper2990It's not like they give you a choice

As a european, wtf are preauthorisations? Over here you just, yknow, pour x amount of gas and pay for what you poured, same for EVs

Europe uses reserved amounts too, but those funds are immediately released once you're done with the transaction.

Same in Australia. We still have "legacy" Superchargers that have the Tesla-modified Mennekes plug and the CCS 2 plug. I'm hoping we can get something sensible like a "NACS three phase" or CCS3 which would basically be an up-rated version of the Tesla modified Mennekes.

@@manicdee983ironically, Tesla’s original Mennekes solution was based on an open standard, but no other vehicle manufacturers adopted it!

@@manicdee983 They didn't modify the Type 2 connector. They were simply the only manufacturer to use the functionality. It's called "DC-Mid".

It's all a question of initial investment. Gas stations had to spend that money to build the station when they started, as they needed space for the pump operator and cash register. Later, when those were no longer needed, with self-pumping and credit cards now being available, that investment was no issue as new gas stations were a rare thing. (And there were expectations on how they look...) With fast chargers, we are still in the initial expansion phase. Spending 5 times as much on a single location as an initial investment than what they can get away with would be foolish, as that would mean they'd only be able to build one-sixth of the locations they can without. Also, the ROI is questionable. People spend a relatively long time at chargers, but the absolute amount of people visiting any charge point is low. You need a massive location with about 40-50 stalls that see heavy use to match the number of customers even a tiny 4-pump gas station gets per day. And this quadruples for "free" services that have to be paid with the income from the pumps/stalls (i.e. trash cans, water, windshield cleaning, air, canopy), as a fill-up only costs about a fourth for electricity as it costs for gas.

It is well-known that convenience stores make most or all of their profits inside the store, their margins on gas are very low especially in todays's volatile oil market. This is especially true of the big chains like 7-Eleven. Still, they invest millions in the fueling experience and in fuel loyalty programs to entice drivers to decide to fill up at their pumps because they'll be more likely to spend money in the store. So it would seem obvious for this model to be copied for EV chargers. Why reinvent the wheel?

@@HenryLoenwind agree but they definitely still build new fuel stations. And yes about the ROI, it’s just gotta wait until electric is more popular, but you’d think that would be a growth market, esp if you already operate a station

In Europe, the gas station did put up chargers at their stations

@@benediktkrull5738 I think the problem will be charging throughput in terms of cars per hour, which probably needs a re-think in terms of how 'fuelling' stations ar laid out. Charging an EV will take in the best case scenarios about 25 mins, and with a gas fill-up taking 5 mins we'd need 5x the chargers to maintain capacity and avoid long queues. This is probably a best case scenario as charging speeds may not be optimal, people may want to fill up more capacity (which is slower), or may go and do stuff and leave their cars on the charger. Therefore stations would need an expanded footprint to maintain capacity, which would be troublesone for urban filling stations that do not have the space to expand, especially a problem in the UK where space is at a permium. I think this would necessitate a different approach, situating chargers in more locations that we have gas stations.

That'd be such a great way to encourage people to shop at your place over the competitor!

Which city?

They haven’t done much in Europe either. EV charging usually co-located at the same highway concession, and even when it’s at the actual gas station, it’ll often be operated by a different company anyway. Shell has a decent number of their own chargers, and there’s another company starting to roll them out (forgot which, maybe Esso or Total). In all cases: app or fob required to pay.

Some buc ee's stations have Tesla chargers. Can't beat a buc ee's charging stop!

Only reason I can see is their available real estate for each station. Most gas stations have little free space you could devote to EV charging. Most certainly don't want charging stations next to gas or diesel pumps.

@@monkeybarmonkeyman true.. Gas fumes are dangerous... Over 4000 gas pump fires each year in the USA with multiple deaths. Safer to be far away from gas pumps,!

Petro Canada chargers are always broken, they basically only exist to justify that "coast to coast EV charging" page on their website while providing nothing in the real world

Meanwhile just yesterday the cashless infrastructure of 1 of my country's banks & part of some other banks' infrastructure got brought down for ~1/2 a day due to problems with an outsourced data centre used by all these banks (Equinix). That'd be disastrous for merchants that've stopped accepting cash

nice of you to say. I agree!

There were like 5 or 6 different plugs in this video.

@@ilRosewood You got me 😂😭

Teslabjørn visited a new station in Norway built with mostly charging in mind. Playground for children ie.

There's an article recently in Australia about how ev charging is changing rural communities. Whereas before petrol pumps were drive thru, places are now placing the charging stations next to the local tourist attractions. This way they attract people who would otherwise have never stopped. And ev drivers actually like the idea.of stopping every few hours for a real break next to some interesting places they would otherwise have never stopped. It will be interesting to see how this develops.

The Björn video is called "Brand new Shell Lohnelier with 2400 kW Kempower charging"

@@martijn8554That sounds like a fantastic way to conduct a trip! So many people really do focus on the destination, not the journey. If EV charging "forces" you to visit a super-cool local museum, that's a great thing! There are so many cool little places the the world that tourists aren't interested in, because they're not the Eiffel Tower, or an equivalent.

Imagine wanting people to toil in slavery.

@oz_jones Please elaborate.

It's more about ego than smartness 😉

I solve that problem by not having an opinion. I achieve that by not thinking. This is facilitated by my lack of brain cells.

So long as they own up to it.

The only question is - are fleet users the overwhelming majority? But I can see the point

"lose"

In markets where carsharing is popular (think Zipcar, Car2Go, Evo...), it solves a huge problem!@@Yorick257

@@Yorick257 what was the point of this comment? an ev owner doesn't have to be a fleet user to benefit from plug and charge.

Fine, no need to not offer it for commercial users, but foist it on all users? no. 🙂

Agreed! The people bitching about it (Alec 😉) haven’t experienced it in a Tesla (you could tell because he didn’t describe the process correctly). Tesla has plenty of shortcomings, but their software integration is amazing, and the legacy car makers have struggled to emulate it.

"Capitalism breeds innovation!" --Techbros reinventing the train for the umpteenth time

​@@HipposHateWaterI would say the innovation of the bullet train is magnificent and proves you wrong. But that same capitalism had Elon make the buss train which equalize it. Even perfection tech bros try to "innovate"

That system is used at almost every fuelling station in Finland.

@@HipposHateWater Things are reinvented because the application is different. If you reinvent the wheel stupidly, then you're running inefficiently and letting your competitors get ahead of you, so eventually the problem takes care of itself. Also, ideas from the past are constantly reused in new ways. That's a cornerstone of technology. To try to somehow spin it as being negative is just plain wrong.

Canopies would be nice, BUT SOMETIMES you might want to be in the sunshine.

Buit the general user wants the freedom to charge where he chooses and will wish to take advantage of price competition. Monopoly or oligopoly charging is bad news.

@@rogerphelps9939 Of course, this is almost 100% used in fleet applications here, and I believe it should stay that way. My car didn't let the gas pump refuel it when I first bought it because of course the old owner took it out of his company account, so I had to rip out the RFID tag before I could actually refuel.