Testing French Drain Scenarios To Find Out....Fabric or No Fabric? Which Is Best | Dr Drainz 

My family owns a $10M landscape and design company and everything he said about the fabric is correct. He just showed you why. It’s the better way to do it . If you choose not to that’s your prerogative but it will be prone to packing the stone which must stay clean for best results. He never said without fabric it wouldn’t work. It’s a difference of quality and life of the drain working well

Thank you for taking the time to shed light on this question. Every bit of information helps us make a decision on our unique situation.

This is one of the best demonstration videos showing the different options!

Loved the experiment. You have changed my mind regarding fabric, hard to argue with your demonstration. Well done!

Man this is a great video! It explained how these thing work and helped me figure out how I want to set up my drainage system. Thank you! for putting this together.

You're exactly right. It all depends on what type of soil you're dealing with.

This is a GREAT visual demonstration. I have been researching French drains for a couple years now for a 195 ft run I need to put in. Absolutely love the surface drain in conjunction with the French drain Thanks so much 🌎 ☮

Thanks yall. Just what I was looking for

THIS IS THE BEST VIDEO OF THE WEEK FOR ME! SUBSCRIBED! THANKYOUUUUU

THANK YOU!!! a million thank yous for this video

so many experts on here! it is amazing!

Very good this experiment, Drainz. I will try to follow your guidelines. A big hug, from Brazil.

Thank you Sarah!!

Brilliant demonstration mate 👍

Great video, great idea for testing, great effort ... You get an A+, sir. Couldn't help notice though that the first setup, sans the landscaping/drainage fabric, seemed to have the fastest throughout by far, but I guess you mentioned that was bc it was dry and subsequent storms would find the clay compacted. Well, thanks bud, we appreciate it. Btw... I'm standing outside over a couple sections of new corrugated pipe wondering how many drill holes to put in it, where and what size (thinking 3/16ths or 1/4"...?)c right here in good old WILMINGTON, NC

this was great, thank you for this

Brilliant

Excellent

Peeeeeeerrrrrfect real world models, genius!!.

We have been installing lawn drains as a company for probably 50 years with thousands of customers and never use any fabric at all. And we have never had any issues with our lawn drains.

Great informative video.

thank you for sharing.

✨👍. Great Vid 🤳. I'm a loyal fan of Chuck. And now you're channel...Great demonstration...Great job Sarah on the filming 🤳✨👍

ewryone says that use fabric caus then the gravel dont clog up. But dont the poors in the fabric clog up also over time due to the same "problem"? Filter fabric its a filter all filters clog up....kinda the whole idea of a filter?

Thank you i would have never thought of the added t drain from the ttop

The link for the 6oz fabric is broken, likely not available by the seller. Can you post a new link or more detail description so we can search it ourselves. Thanks

non woven geo textile double punched fabric is the best. u can order it from the french drain man in almont MI

I’m in Minnesota with a clay yard and ground water. Our pool has schedule 40 pipe. It was build in 2003. We’ve never had an issue and the freeze/thaw cycle here is intense.

Excellent video

Great video! 👍🏻

Wow interesting....

Six foot culverts get clogged and micro mesh wont, thats truely amazing!

most helpful video yet; surface and subsurface is way to go for me!! What is the best fabric to buy? I don't see the other video.

Thanks mate I have learned how it works much support 🇰🇪 Joe!

Wow … that’s cool

Awesome video

Great video. I don't know haw many times I have tried to explain this to clients and students. What are your thoughts on using a course river sand instead of drainage aggregate and geotextile.

Great video

Option #4: Skip the soil and sod on top. Now you collect both surface and below-grade water, AND have a rock path.

Great demonstration! Do you ever add a filter at the open grate at the top that catches surface water? I’m interested in a French drain for my large shed (15 foot x 20 foot) water coming from getters down the down pipe. Thanks! Going to watch more of your videos now😀

This was very helpful. How my inches of stone should be under the pipe, and how far should dig from the sunken or level land for the best to redirect and catch the water?

Good stuff

When dealing with clay sch 80 is your best bet to prevent cracks long term. 😊

I’ve done both ways with and without the fabric. The water flow pretty good either way while there testing after the install. No matter which one you choose you’ll still have to clean the system. The fabric will give you a some extra time.

Doesn't the fabric clog up over time with the clay, reducing flow like you pointed out in the first one?

great video man!! Really good info for a southern landcaper! Yall need an alabama franchise?

Great video! Well done for taking the effort. 👍 You mentioned PVC schedule 40. What if the PVC is surrounded by gravel? Is it at risk of cracking in colder areas?

Hello Dr Drains, Mr French Drain here out of Columbus Ohio. You seem to be the middle man between The French Drain Man and Apple Drains.

Is there a video of you putting these together? Just wondered if the gravel layer was the same, the one with the drain looked deeper but I wasn't sure. Thanks!

Hi. If I have on my beck yard a regular soil without the clay and I'm getting a lot of surface water in the spring time from the melted snow I should do just a drain with T catch bays without a fabric to save some money and drain the surface water? Thank you.

We usually place the "non-woven" filter fabric along the bottom of the trench, place some #57 stone in the bottom (3-4inches thick) place the pipe and cover it with 6-8 inches of stone. Then wrap the stone with the fabric to create a "burrito" effect encapsulating the stone. This prevents soil from getting to the pipe from all directions, top, sides and bottom. Then backfill the trench. In commercial use we backfill with mason sand or concrete sand above the fabric.

I’m going to do something like this around my house since I’m missing some gutters and can’t get anyone out to put them up on my two story home. I don’t have fascia either and I just had my shingles replaced I would rather not screw straps on my shingles. Any thoughts on the correct drain methodology, I was thinking corrugated slotted pipe with rock and a sleeve like a burrito 😆can I get your professional thoughts on the correct drainage methods and products to use for this. Thank you in advance! 🙏🏼

Hi thank you for that so can I do the French train with the surface train together My new construction is in the middle where I have a slope going down and I have a slope going up to another property I think the 3rd option the last one you suggested is the best 1 is that correct?

On one side of my yard (neighbors house is higher) I have a wood retaining wall but the water runs towards my house and saturates the gravel and even gets into my crawl space. I run corrugated solid pipes from my gutters on this side and run to front of the house. Im thinking about putting a concrete slab here to slope surface water away from my house and so I can have a solid pipe under the slab for the gutters. While this may mitigate surface water ( especially if I had some surface drains on this slab that connected with the gutter pipes) will this mitigate sub surface water from my neighbor? Is there such thing as putting a French drain pipe under slab or would it have to be on the edge of the slab at the foot of the wood retaining wall? Thanks.

I have a flat pathway, only 4 feet wide. Brick is about 1 feet below the ground. The brick sits on large stone. My house is on one side and the other side has a fence. The other side has ground. I don't have slope. The tube would be level to the ground. Can I use a sump pump with a french drain to pump away the water? Any other tips for this situation?

#4 Connect the French drain and below water drain to the same pipe. It saves you pipe by using only one. And probably add a filter on that French drain inlet.

I’m In Massachusetts and I used to install septics. Schedule 40 is what is used for all piping. It’s actually very strong and if it cracked in the winter I’d imagine every septic in the state would have failed. There is a solid pipe that is pretty thin walled which you might be referring to but schedule 40 has about a 1/4 inch wall.

Hello i am planning or making a rain collection pond using a french drain filtered with pvc, gravel sand and cloth , what cloth should I use and how deep should I make mt french drain? I want my water to be clearer

Great demo. French drains are for ground water. People need to remember that. If surface water is the issue, you use non-perforated pipe and the surface drains.

I am wondering if my leach line not being fabric wrapped be why I am starting to get tracks in my yard where my septic leach lines are? could they be stealing soil like the non-fabric drain lines are here? The system is between 15-25 years old.

I have a garden space that get's flooded by the property next door. My back yard id sunken and is sitting on a shallow clay base. To keep it from flooding I have a sump tank in the lowest point which worked fine until the building next door was demolished leaving the concrete slab behind. I was going to install a small french drain system in the garden and take it to the sump but was wondering if solid pipe with surface drains would work if the drains were connected by perforated tees. The idea is to avoid fabric and stone by using a solid corrugated pipe. Soft soil wouldn't be a problem if I can remove standing water.

Question … wouldn’t the clay clog the fabric over time?

i do not understand how water pushes up to the pipe. In a situation of a 10 foot retaining wall will the water have to back fill up to the French drain? I don't understand "fill from the bottom". Sure in a plastic container, where else could it go. So using a sealed plastic container, sure, it fills from the bottom. But with a 10 foot retaining wall the water should just keep going down until it back fills the depth of the retaining wall.

So if you can't use PVC in the NC clay, what do yall use for waste pipe there?

I have about 40' of drainage to do, can I use the perforated drainage pipe for the surface drain? Since the perforated pipe comes in 100' lengths. Run 2 perforated pipes but one has the risers for the surface water. So I don't have to buy the solid pipe. Trying to save money

Do you run both lines separately or can you join them (surface and French) together into one line?

Nice video. I am doing a French drain project. What type of fabric do you recommend? Name or where to get it online?

Why was the third bucket drain already full of dirt before you showed the test? Did you pre water it? Just wondering since that would affect the outcome. Thank you

Thanks for a great demonstration! It is very interesting to see how the fabric keeps the clay particulates from clogging the gravel. But in your video, there was no clay underneath or alongside the lower level of gravel (that encircling the pipe) - just the plastic of the bin. I live in Ky., and have to deal with hard pan clay. Obviously, I'll have clay on the bottom and along the sides of the trench - not plastic. I am building more of a curtain drain (shallower trench alongside a sidewalk, for the runoff). In the situation of short, "average" rainfall, I was counting on the stone to hold the water until it gradually percs into the clay. In a heavy downpour, because the clay percolates slowly, it's going to act more like a french drain. I plan on placing a 4" perf. flex pipe on a bed of small, smooth river stones, then fill with gravel and top with pea gravel for the look. I am not using any soil in the back fill. So do I use fabric or not? Using the logic from your demo, it would seem that using fabric on the bottom and sides of the trench would be needed, to keep the clay on the bottom and sides from eventually clogging up the channels in the gravel. I have looked at so many Apple Drain videos with Chuck that my head is spinning about what to do.... Any advice is greatly appreciated! BTW I am a 63 year old woman and doing this by myself!

What about if you don't do soil on top? What if you just fill the trench with gravel?

The link to the fabric example goes to Amazon but says it cant find the page. Is there another limk that works?

I have a dumb question , will the cloth not get clogged with clay eventually ? If so what is there to do ? Does it make sense to add cloth then sand then gravel ?

Would you want to put fabric also *under* the gravel layer?

Usually comes up. Very interesting

Great demonstration. Love to see it repeated every day for 100 + days until something fails.

After heavy rain, i had to remove the fabric for the french drain so surface water will drop down.

I'm a retired drainer. In Australia, 60 years ago, we built these drains without cloth. We put newspapers on top of the gravel and covered that with soil. And we don't call em french drains.

Awesome video! Very straight forward and realistic set ups. I appreciate your knowledge and your time! Out of curiosity, why not have the surface drain tap into the French Drain (so you only need 1 drain rather than 2)?

How do you know if your garden is holding water from the top or raising from the ground

We are in the plan ing pricess of doing french drain in our yard. What best fabric to order?

Interesting test, however I note that there is no dirt under the stones. Won’t the stone get clogged over time by sinking into the dirt? Thx for sharing.

Should I install two drains side by side, just like that?

It might seem if you have a good clean out system eventually all the soil that makes into a pipe without fabric could be just flushed out over time till there is no soil left. Yet any additional soil that would make again in from the top again in the future.

How were similar drains built before geotextile fabric became widely used?

Do yoh recommend using a pipe sock?

6:14 what clumps of soil? There was none in the 1st pot either. Just dirty water

Why can't you use one pipe to catch surface water act as a perforated french drain?

Why, when clicking on the Amazon link for the fabric, Amazon says that page cannot be found. Please fix this as I need to start building my drains.

Good sh*t‼️🍻👍

Great video. I live in VA and we're pretty much as sea level. it floors here. Our backyard is apart of the local drainage from a easement for it. can I create some sort of large box to hold water in that area in the ground?

Try a non woven textile

Just had to dig up the french drain i set only one year ago and pull all the fabric out as was blocked, really disappointing. Just Reset it without any fabric now and just refilled the trench with rock already draining a lot better

Update: To reiterate: My goal was to divert surface water from the the sidewalk to a drainage system. I have it emptying into a small drywall about 16" - 18" deep and 30" wide. Now, I am about 1/2 way done. My drain system is really more of a curtain drain, and not a true French drain, because it's very shallow, only about 8 - 10 inches deep. The whole thing may be overkill, but even when I just had the dirt trench there, the water ran off well - but the trench gradually silted up, so a more "permanent" solution was needed. Oh yeah, and I am 64 in November, so if I can do it, anyone can! What I did was this: 1) I bought the 6 oz. fabric from the supplier that Dr. Drainz recommended. It was good, solid stuff. I have trees and shrubs in the immediate area, so I figured anything to slow down root penetration is good. The water will still make it into the drain. 2) Laid a 1 inch layer of "river rock" (bagged smooth stone, about 1/2 - 1 inch in size). I emptied one bag at a time in my Dad's (65 year old Craftsman) wheelbarrow and rinsed it with a garden hose, then slowly tilted it so the murky water ran out. Did this about 5 - 6 times till the water was about 1/2 clear. 3) Laid the 4" perforated pipe (not the ADS, just the flex pipe from Lowe's/HD). It has perforations spaced all around the circumference, so no worrying about getting the right side down. 4) Covered it all with the small river rock, and did a burrito wrap with about 2 inches of overwrap and used landscape pins to secure it. 5) That will all be covered with a layer of pea gravel and then (maybe also) mulch. Perf. drain in place: drive.google.com/file/d/1azS5VlxGGvKpyGvhewOwsxla3q8ZEl0u/view?usp=sharing Before closing up the wrap: drive.google.com/file/d/1m-uT9bMVdCh_--9k-CvFbtT7ZCjXQnkz/view?usp=sharing After the wrap: drive.google.com/file/d/1lr8U0a_t7dzuDZGDQ2s5-4FUkRjIMPis/view?usp=sharing For the drywell, I lined it with the 6 oz non woven, used landscape pins to secure it to the walls, put a layer of 2" - 4" round large, smooth river rock on the bottom, followed by the smaller smooth river rock. Closed it up with more pins, and will cover all with pea gravel and then maybe mulch, so it blends in with the landscaping: drive.google.com/file/d/16vHnAiqWqS4H94-LVQnCIQSVyOTuayxv/view?usp=sharing

Great video and explanation. Thanks! I just moved up north to clay soil which is very different from florida I have a weird situation with standing water in back yard due to issues in my development. I was thinking to put a french drain in but fill with rock or rock the bottom then backfill with potting soil just to keep the water underground in hopes of having a bit of a dryer yard. I really have no where for it to drain off to. If this doesnt work i may have to put in a basin and a sump pump also at the end of the run. In your opinion could my idea keep the water underground? Or am i way off in my thinking. Thanks, again

Id absolutely not out clay over a French drain. If I had to replace dirt, I’d use topsoil and a little bit of sand for easy drainage

If they say fabric doesn't work, then why is fabric used in silk fence construction/erosion control?

what is the difference between a soaraway and a french drain?

If the fabric gets clogged over time then what about the perforated pipe? It would get clogged too?

Whats happen if i dont have earth its a grave garden ...need it anyway ?

The most important part of any drainage system is using the proper rock. Not all pea gravel is equal. Properties of pea gravel vary greatly.