There is a distinct difference between a "tryhard" and a simply skilled player. Tryhards are players who take themselves way too seriously when playing the game and will get mad if they see any kind of goofing off, even in a casual match, because that's just how seriously they take the game. A skilled player won't necessarily be a tryhard, just as a tryhard won't necessarily be a skilled player, it's just that sometimes, those 2 adjectives can overlap in a person.
As much as you may dislike tryhards, you have to admit that they well establish tf2's fps aspect and not just the friendly and casual simulator that you literally won't find in any other fps aspect. Thank you Grouch for making us look at all sides, venture out and broaden our horizons a bit.
I think being a tryhard isnt a bad thing, it depends on how you act mostly, like if you are a lime scout with a bunch of crappy lenny binds thats fine, annoying but fine, when people start having tantrums and calling people slurs is the kind if tryhards who should be hated.
Yes. I wouldn't call those people tryhards, I'd call them toxic. Votekick those people IMMEDIATELY. They shouldn't be playing TF2, they need to go outside and get some sunlight.
Me too! Octo's recent video on Gun Spy has got me rethinking everything I know about playing Spy. I keep finding new awesome ways to play, it's just as fun as the day I first downloaded it. :_)
@@HeyGrouch Yeah that gun spy vid was great. It’s wild how the community is able to keep the base game fresh only by changing their perspective/interpretation of the game.
I do think it's always important to remember, "Don't hate the player, hate the game". TF2 wasn't designed around anyone having more than 50 hours of experience with a given class. We got players with thousands. I think rebalancing of the game to some extent could help, but it's tricky as you still want it to be fun and rewarding for those newer players, otherwise the game just kind of dies.
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how the game shapes up 10 years from now with its already existing skill gap between veterans and fresh installs
We don't need balance patches designed around "tryhards" or people with a lot of hours. That's how you turn a game into an unfun, boring esport. We need more shitty players. More shitters means more people in a game that you're capable of killing, and it means you're less likely to get into a game with people who are really good. Instead of facing a team of three try hards, three normal players, and three shitters and getting BTFO, image a game where you play against one or two tryhards, fourish normal players, and maybe half a dozen shitters. Suddenly you only need to really worry about one guy, that one guy still gets his godlike, and you might just win a round or two.
@@StuGLyfe What I meant by balancing around tryhards was exactly what you're meaning here. Things like nerfing sniper, lowering the insane potential dominance skilled players can have single handedly. Problem with making changes like that to any given class, is you often also make the class less fun for people, and make it even harder to do well with for newer players trying to have fun with the game. Think about all the suggested nerfs for sniper, for example, then consider how much worse of an experience you would likewise have as a new player who already can't aim as well as those with more experience. I don't care about things being balanced for the higher end of play, I agree that's a pointless goal. I only care about things being balanced for the actual majority players, and with the understanding that some players have vastly more skill than others. You want skill to matter, but you don't want it to matter so much that it completely dominates a match like a good sniper can. It ain't as simple as it might seem.
You're absolutely right on the money on how ""tryhards"" are usually trying less than whoever may be raging in chat, largely because that's just how muscle memory works. It's also a topic that I'm passionate for as friends of mine face the same issue, and yet I can certainly confirm that they only take their games semi-seriously at most (as do I). Unless you're playing ranked or trying to earn a prize pool, there's a certain point where stressing about win screens just simply isn't worth it, and general improvement becomes much more gratifying as a result. I get that many usually don't expect players to reach a certain skill threshold (15+ respawns don't feel particularly nice either, lets not kid ourselves) but to me, games are all about having some goal to work toward. From the literal (objectives) to the personal (Reaching "Hale's Own ___"). It only makes certain mechanics and skillsets feel more deliberate and satisfying. I don't play TF2 nearly as much as I used to, but I recently picked up Quake Champions as one of my go-to games, and Quake is chock-full of these moments. And unlike modern FPS, I feel as if I don't need to exclusively queue up with friends to be able to enjoy the game consistently, and it's a shame that AFPS struggles to gain traction among newer audiences, but it is what it is. I will say however, that TF2 still shares much of these elements, and in this day and age where skills feel less varied than ever (imo) I can at least thank it for that.
I mean. If we're being honest the person whos gonna play for fun is gonna windup being the tryhards themselves. Its apart of human nature we get better at things the more we do those activities. And adaptability is a thing people you're gonna learn from facing a tryhard weather you like it or not, and its gonna improve your gameplay. Im tired of this community belittling others because ones better at the game than another. respect those talented people that made it at the top, never shame them for being there..
I found your channel from Robert Thompsons Animation video and was like, I gotta see who came up with the slot machine gun game... AND OF COURSE SUCH A CREATIVE GUN DESIGN CAME FROM A TF2 PLAYER
As a labeled "tryhard" myself, I couldn't agree more. In my opinion, someone who is good at the game isn't a tryhard. A tryhard is someone who takes the game way too seriously. He kills conga dancers and hoovies. He initiates votes to kick afk players or medics who suck. He yells in the mic at his team for not doing the meta strat.
I mean yeah I kill friendlies, have to level up those Stranges. But hell I don't vote kick the shit player or scream at them. Give'em a tip if they want it.
Tf2 is one of those games where skill plays a very important factor, but god damn it nothing else can make me feel like a living legend to feeling like I’m stuck in a rut in less than 5 minutes
I think you are confusing 2 different elements together here: There is a difference between being good at the game and being a tryhard. Casual players play to simply have fun, they don't need the artificial reward of 'winning' to enjoy a match. However the other part mostly enjoys playing the objective and focuses on it way more than the average player. That's how the stereotype goes. Don't mistaken it.
Also add in the factor of toxicity. If someone is just playing the objective there is nothing wrong with it. But if he blames his team for not doing well and gets mad at people using the huntsman, then that's not fine.
In my opinion to play at your level is perfectly fine If you can dominate an intire server without problem then youre free to do so But killing friendlies isnt a matter of skill, its about moral Of course there is the whole debate about if casual implies that friendlies are supposed to exist But outside of that, being good at the game shouldnt excuse you from killing friendlies (Which may or may not be intended to exist)
I don't *necessarily* have a problem with people who attack friendlies. Sometimes they steal my health packs or get in my way... And then it becomes a bloodbath. Or I'm playing medic with the Ubersaw and need a quick bit of uber and accidentally crit them into oblivion.
@@HeyGrouch thats what i had in mind I felt like the We wont get mad if you kill friendlies was a bit too inclusive But what you just said with uber and healthpacks is a lot more agreeable
Moral ? What kind of bullshit is that ? We have the right to hate friendlies, we have the right to play TF2 the way it was designed : a pvp FPS. I see opposite color of my team, I shoot, no question asked.
the difference between a try hard and a skilled player is that a skilled player is nice, plays the objective and doesnt talk shit, and when they do, its usually to someone who started it, then they have the skill to back up there talk. they either kill or dont kill friendlies, and when they do, they dont talk trash or whatnot, they just move on. there aware not everyone on there team is going to be as good as them, so when a newbie joins them, thay wont mind, a try hard is at best, average at the game. they yell slurs and talk shit, but cant back it up and yell at you or there own team when they die, swearing up and down there a god and everyone else is holding them down. they dont just tolerate friendlies, or kill them and move on, nonon, they despise them. they target them specifically because there having fun in a way they dont like. they dont play objective and they make sure to call a vote kick on anyone they dont like, but in an ironic twist, they will most likely not kick cheaters because the cheater is on there team. theres some overlap, of course, and this isnt a one size fits all deal, but this is what iv picked up on from my time playing. being a lime green scout with binds isnt necessarily going to be a tryhard, its when they start getting mad for no reason is when stuff goes downhill.
2:06 it also includes: how to commit several war crimes, when he did said crimes, the stolen formula for anterax, how to hide Molotovs and Soo much more
Coming from a comp player, I think that the adition of bullshit features like random crits and classes easy to play like pyro and heavy make the game more fun for newer players as they don't have the skill necessary to do big numbers. It makes me happy that even when someone is terrible at tf2 they can still make some points.
You hit the nail on the head with uncletopia. A lot of people hate it because "It's sweaty" and while yes, the people you're playing against probably play tf2 exclusivity, are just good players and it feels like you're more upset over not being able to pubstomp.
Actually, I have been that heavy that pub stomps. And I use the brass beast. Basically religiously. I have it renamed "The Brass Wall" and have it festivized and killstreaked. The whole deal
I try to be the middle ground of FPSs when it comes to someone who just wants to enjoy the game, as well as being a "tryhard". I grew up on Halo and CoD for a lot of my youth, so naturally I wanted to do well. But ultimately, I don't do many chores and do university work just to come back home and work a 2nd job with sweating, especially in a wacky game like TF2. As I've gotten older, 21 years old now, I still try to do well in a game, but if I don't, then oh well! That's just my two cents. Really nice analysis on a this particular subject man.
I agree! This is why I love TF2 so much. The mark of a truly great game is this: It's fun to lose. And TF2 is super fun even when I'm sucking, especially because of the humor and goofiness in it.
Yeahhh same Barely got enough time to sit for longer then an hour on 2 lately, life's life and it sucks out all of your free time you had, be it for work, workout, socialising, just getting some rest for once in a blue moon
I think the only time to hate a try-hard is when they refuse to leave a lobby that turned friendly But, just as well The only time to hate a friendly is when they whine in chat joining a lobby that is very competitive. What I find is that most people are a mix of both qualities and are willing to switch around or even respect the other group. Try-hards are not the problem neither are friendlies. It's entitlement
I try to be something in between tryhard and friendly. Most of the time I'm running around looking for a fight rather than focusing the objective but I'll respect the crouch and reciprocate taunts.
4:00 - Talks about playing overwatch and how competitive it is - background footage: not overwatch Even he couldn't bring himself to touch that cesspool of a game
I’m a medic main who tries my best on the objective, but I’m not so much of a tryhard to pass up wacky opportunities over optimal strategy. I think I’m a pretty good medic but definitely not the greatest
i remember once playing good as scout in a casual server and after we won, an enemy player said "so many scouts with "edgy hats" (i was using the troublemaker's hat so i guess he was yelling at me) and no one kicks the bots" i didnt say anything bad and i was actually calling kicks againts our bots and yet still get this. (this was 1 or 2 years ago)
hat stereotypes are so funny to me, it's like they think they know your entire personality based on what hat you choose lol. best example is Anger Snipers, but the Tossel Cap is also iconic. thank you for doing your duty and kicking those pesky bots 🙏
@@HeyGrouch yeah, I wont doubt on kicking cheaters. The hat stereotypes are taken too seriusly and u pretty much cant wear a good amount of hats without the fear getting judged by the entire server. This is not even real life lmao
this entire video is true, except one thing: try-hard and skilled players are very different things, try-hards seam to be incapable of understanding the definition of fun and or how to have fun. and skilled players don’t need to try to win, they’re just that good. and when you pull of something cool,regardless of who you are, taunting just seems like the correct response/way to express just how cool the thing you just did was.
My friend falls into the sweaty category, whenever he runs into a friendly in casual or if I'm being friendly myself he just calls it a free kill and says casual is about casually playing the objective. When he's on a server no friendlies are allowed to exist
I was tryharding, sweating, using the most unfair weapons open fortress had to offer, in a map that I'm very good at: I got second place to a guy that came late and wasn't even trying.
Yeh i usually rage a lot while playing, but its different when its my problem or when these airstrike soldier and kritzkrieg med didnt even let the team go out of spawn and get cocky on chat, or that sniper who wants to kill everyone even if there is a friendlies corner while the half of team still playing cool. I mean, the pro people even is kind, but these tryhards just make you going like "Meh, another one" And yep, both happened me on casual payload
Yeah, almost like there's 2 versions of tryhards. Ones that are normal regular pros, veterans of the game and just skilled players And a physical manifestation of everything you want to punch in the face who won't care about anything but winning at whatever cost, especially the cost of everyone else having to cater to them
I don't think it's so much as "they're better than me" it's more so "They aren't having fun and are taking it too seriously." Hence the name, "tryhard". If you see a Demoman with an Aussie Stickybomb Launcher, stickyspamming the whole game with a Kritzkrieg Medic shoved so far up his butt that he can taste the magic in a young girl's heart, then you can probably assume he's a tryhard.
Idk, I have to disagree. Maybe that's just his favorite way to play the game, you know? If he's being toxic at all in chat then 100%, he's a problem. But some people just like pubstomping with their friends, and I feel like if they love the game so much to get that good at it and to coordinate a pubstomp, then honestly they've earned it. I'd be more annoyed at autobalance than the player himself
@@HeyGrouch Oh I absolutely hate it when people say "ggez" in chat when they steamroll my team. Most of the time if they're sweating to win by doing crutch strats, then they are also being toxic in chat. Like those people who have binds they press whenever they kill someone. Every time.
@@HeyGrouch i agree, But i feel like sometimes friendlies after getting killed, They usually ruin their own fun trying to convince the other team to kick the person who killed him, And lets himself get killed by same person on purpose to show the other team that tryhard once again kills him, And never fights back at all, Just whines and complains, Its how i see from my side idk about others.
while it is fun fighting against a good player, it is not fun fighting against a good player who has infinite uber because he actually protects his medic, that's all i am gonna say.
I respect tryhard Scouts, Soldiers, Pyros, Demos, Heavies, Engineers, Medics and Spies but Tryhard Sniper oh no they get no respect (Loosing Uber at 90% isnt just a Number it hurts on an emotional level)
i think the real place for everyone is in this list: friendlies are 2 fort tryhards: competitve trollers: community newbie: offline practise :clown: the 5000+ hour mann: Uncle topia filled with tryhards
It can be frustrating being a casual player but I have never hated a player that doms me but I sure do taunt when I finally get my one kill after him being 10-1 on me…
Ever thought that said "tryhard" could be more experienced than you, and instead of giving up you could try to actually improve instead of going around and calling yourself experienced, while whining about them?
@@YepJustRob I mean, a Tryhard as in an experienced player? Or tryhard as in the full lime wearing 12 year old who’s just got his buddy’s kritzkreig surgically grafted to his ass?
I remember that once I was a Medic to a lot of meh players and I was topscoring, yet we were all just playing normally, then an Engie put a sentry outside our spawn and I asked my team to stop dying to it and to help to take it down, then someone called vote to kick me and it passed. I asked that guy why he kicked me and he just shitposted.
Remember normal tryhards aren’t who you hate. They’re just people who are better just want to get better. People who you hate are those salty ones, who insult everyone they kill and bitch every time they die.
We're all playing the same game, I dont even get the whole notion of "casuals" vs "tryhards" most people I know would probably be labeled as a tryhard (like me :)) goof around casual or uncletopia with comp like pretty much anyone else who doesn't interact with comp gamers. I think the fact we can have the competitive formats we have while going into a pub to use some random gimmick or just chill with friends is a testament to how great tf2 is and the tools the devs left us with to make server configs to be able to host both comp game modes and other things, like vs Saxton hale, prophet. Etc. All in the same amazing game :)
I am not good at the game, I rarely ever say anything in text chat and often have voice chat muted, when I do say something I never act toxic, irritated, or passive-aggressive, and this doesn’t change even when people are toxic or egging me on, I never use toxic voice lines like “thanks” or even taunt after I kill something unless you count the occasional demand for a dispenser, I never go out of my way to kill friendlies and I try to leave them alone, I usually don’t use meta loadouts and occasionally switch up my class or weapons. But I still find myself getting called “tryhard” and get a lot of crap from people just for, well, trying my best in combat, no matter how better or worse the enemy I am facing is than me. And I have fun regardless if I am winning or getting my butt kicked as long as I feel like I tried my best. Up until watching this video I just assumed lime scouts and veteran players very different things from “tryhards”, and “tryhard” was more just something people say when they’re angry at you for doing what I perceive as merely playing the game.
Try hards is my A$$. Never say do that again! Never think about that Tryhards! Relax to Play to Gameplay. that all is it. *-Veteran FPS Xtreme_Shoot Tactic & Tip.*
Tryhard and Skilled players have gotten mixed together, no one hates the soldier who can always hit his air shoots or can carry a team. People hate the soldier who comes into a match of 2 fort, kills the entire enemy team, ends the match in the next 5 minutes. When everyone, Red and Blu was dicking around having fun. No one hates the scout who knows the maps and flanks routes and can out fight an enemy team. People hate the tryhard lime green scout for targeting to f2p noob and making him quite the game after being a n repentant cunt about it. Skilled players are good, and most time if a server goes friendly, wont ruin the fun for everyone else, but not a try hard.
There's no defense for that toxic direct hit soldier try hard saying "GG EZ" after every friendly he killed in my 2fort server he was even evil enough to kill a hoovy.
On an unrelated note, class restrictions were the worst idea ever invented and it's the main reason why I AVOID uncletopia. Being forced to play another class just because 3 other people are playing it isn't fair especially if they've been performing poorly as those classes. If his servers didn't have class restrictions then I would probably give uncletopia less shit for being overly competitive or as the community calls it a sweatfest, but seeing how that won't change I'll stick to other community servers/casual.
1:39 In my defence: I don’t think the Red Baron painted his plane red to be obnoxious. I also don’t think the Red Baron ever raged when someone went wrong.
There certainly are skilled tryhards, but I seem to run into even more who aren't actually good, and only get a significant amount of kills by killing friendlies. But occasionally I run into that one weeb tryhard Spy, with all the unusuals, that just owns everyone on the server and is insanely good. I can't even be mad at him I'm just in awe.
I take pleasure in ending their kill streaks. If it bleeds, it can die. It just feels good knowing that you bested the one person who keeps besting your team. I dont mean to sound arrogant Its a dopamine rush.
The problem I see Is that there seems to be pretty much two definitions floating around Tryhard in normal, regular, fair sense of someone just doing their best, just playing the game and having grand old time. And *The Tryhard* who doesn't really care about having fun, it's jsut win even if the match is extremely unbalanced in their favor it's all for the win anyway, target whoever opposes you in any way, shape or form, and get mad when someone's actually better then them. With some overlaps.
Dude I hired my friend to build a TF2 plugin specifically for people like us. It forces players to schadenfreude instantly as soon as they get a kill. I'll be running it on my Grouchland servers next weekend, you're gonna love it. 🔥
TF2 is a fucking mystery to me; it's perhaps the only videogame i've seen filled with people who actively despise those who play the game for how it's designed and play it well. We have a whole term for this group in the first place, literally other-ing people who just... are good at fucking videogames. It's genuinely pathetic.
Careful now, friend. Now you're other-ing the people who are other-ing. A lot of people get mad at videogames, I wouldn't exactly call it pathetic. It's more so just unfortunate. It seems like both sides are accusing the other side of taking the game too seriously, but in different ways. I think the only way to end the cycle is just to accept others when they get mad at us and try to show some compassion, since they're probably just redirecting unrelated anger coming from something very real elsewhere in their life :)
@@HeyGrouch I have no idea what you're getting at here. I'm observing that the community at large tends to other people who treat the game seriously. Calling people out on othering isnt othering in itself, otherwise you might as well not call out any sort of discrimination. Calling out when someone is being dishonest about something is important. There's a time and a place for turning the other cheek, but when the entire "society" as we can call it normalizes this kind of behavior, you need to take a stand against it.
@@HueManatee There is a monumental difference between taking a stand against a certain kind of behavior and mocking someone who participates in that behavior. I dislike hatred, but hating the hateful isn't any kind of solution at all. It seems to me that mockery actually encourages the behavior we're trying to squash because it pushes people further back into their echo chamber and further solidifies that "other-ing" mentality. They often end up thinking "Well this guy is just calling me names, clearly he's the bad guy in this situation." I agree with your goal 100%, I just think acceptance breeds acceptance and hatred breeds hatred. A LOT of people disagree with me on this, but since our goal is the same we're clearly on the same team here. :) Hell, I might just be naive, but this is what I've noticed in my personal life so I can't help but imagine that this rule scales up proportionally. I'd look into the work of Daryl Davis if you're interested in someone who's actually put this mentality into practice, he's genuinely amazing. And thanks for your replies, it means a lot that you're taking the time to engage in this kind of conversation :)
@@HeyGrouch I'm aware of Daryl Davis. This is not the same. Daryl Davis sought to understand those who hated him, but you can't exactly act like he's not ready to criticize the KKK. I have no trouble calling someone who is trapped in dishonest and automatic biased thinking as pathetic, especially an adult. I would also be very willing to converse with them and give them a chance to see what they're doing wrong. If I were just mocking those who think in such irrational ways I'd be doing something unproductive, but that's not what I'm doing. I'm openly criticizing destructive and automatic thinking, and I feel no shame for that. If someone wants to take my honest criticism (which isn't a string of epithets and insults like you seem to suggest) and use that to further prove their immature thinking, then I don't quite see how the issue is on my end.
When I use the Classic I’m just _better_ than most snipers. Without even trying, without even listening. Why? Hell if I know for sure. But likely because I’m confident and very comfortable with the weapon. I’m not trying hard- I’m far more relaxed when I use it actually, compared to say stock.
ATTENTION EVERYONE. THERE IS A CIVIL CONFLICT WITH OPINIONS. HERES THE RULES FOR THE COMMENT SECTION: Be polite Be efficient And have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Make sure you are not being a jerk Don’t be aggressive Be civil. By reading this comment, you have signed to be in agreement of this document. Any aggressive behavior will result in anyone responding to your comment with “cope harder” or “mald”
One of my favorite things to do is to Kill tryhards who are dominating servers in the most stupid way possible. Like one time there was this kunai spy who was doing chain stabs all around and I was playing pyro and I airblast em againts a wall. And my teamates ended up gang banging him
My issue is that a lot of try-hards act like their way of playing is somehow morally superior, while failing to understand that most of what they like about the game is the result of poor balance, lack of foresight, and janky physics.
I used to be a tryhard.. I used to piss people of playing games and casually win 1 v 3's in most f2p's and casually be at the top of every game I'd play. Then I got a job and family, now I can't even keep up
I have 1000 hours in tf2 and a good 700 hours of that is playing meme playstyles in 2fort servers. I can outplay a fair amount of other people. You just naturally progress overtime
I find it kind of annoying how tryhards, people who should be playing ranked to challenge themselves, often go for community servers and casual mode, because they don't seek harder challenges and just want easy ego boosting pub stomps. I've seen this in Halo, CoD, TF2, OW, and even a game like Sea of Thieves (PVP players not opting for Hour Glass mode and instead do open world PVP to gank new players). I feel like tryhards absolutely deserve the hate they get, because instead of actually trying to improve, they just try hard, but don't want an opposing challenge that might knock them right off their perch for a couple days/months.
