I agree with you cutting Keeper of the Accord. He doesn’t belong in token decks, I ended up cutting him too. He is clunky at 4 mana also. I only play him in control decks.
I think it’s a solid include as a ramp card only. There are very few times that you’ll get a token out of it, but the ramp has always hit for when I play it
The only deck I use Keeper in is my Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper deck. Board wipes can be pretty nasty against that deck so Keeper helps immediately put you back in the game
Wouldn't mind seeing one of these for Verazol considering the brief moment in the spotlight they had a few weeks ago. Plus, it's not like you don't have a hat in the ring already, I did use the one you posted as a basis for building my own ;)
These are so great, thanks for being so thoughtful and thorough with your cuts and explanations! Maw of the Obzedat isn't just for winning RTR block drafts anymore.
wow, this video was an eye opener for me ... I know that there's a balance between those 3 aspects of the deck but the explanation made clear what's more important... Im already changing my deck XD
@@madwithjacob no matey. But it has given me some ideas on how to tweak it. In my game group, I’ve found that I’m separated between sac pay offs, bringing Extus to hand from graveyard and and creating things to sac for avatar. I think I’m best focusing on creating a lot of tokens to sac and bringing commander from graveyard to hand (remember that it’s always a creature in graveyard, not sorcery, you have to use the front of an mdfc). I underestimated the avatars. Once I get 3 on the table, people are starting to panic
@@dmajor9982 oh wow, I thought when you cast back side of blood avatar it would go to graveyard and you could replace in command zone. I didn’t know you had to return from graveyard to hand?
@@madwithjacob if I have enough creatures to sack or will do soon, I’ll return it to the command zone. But if I have a spell to return a creature to hand from the grave, I’ll put avatar in the grave and return to hand to avoid commander tax. But if you can reliably make a tonne of tokens, you’re probably best going to command zone and paying the tax. So that no one can steal Extus
Loved the nuanced discussion about where to take the deck! I tried building Thalisse at one point, but kept running into the token vs aristocrats problem, but this video helped out alot :)
Been running a Thalisse aristocrats deck for a while now, and I’ve definitely experienced the shortcomings. The deck always feels like it’s short on something at any given moment, be it card draw, token makers, sac outlets, or death payoffs. I’m definitely going to look into a bit more of a pure token strategy for her. One thing I have noticed is that Thalisse loves MDFCs. They count towards your Field of the Dead threshold while also providing what’s usually a relevant spell. The four I run are Agadeem’s Awakening, Emeria’s Call, Malakir Rebirth, and Kabira Takedown. Each one provides an effect this deck wants while also letting it run effectively a much higher land count.
Just rebuilt this commander with a treasure subtheme. It’s already nuts but needs a few final real good pieces until it’s truly awesome. Love this commander!
I've been debating on building this deck and after this, I'm definitely building it. Best part is I have basically everything to do so. I'm excited because it's not a regular run of the mill Aristocrat style deck
Thank you for the help. I made a Thalisse deck, and I noticed all of the issues you mentioned. I had too much life gain, aristocrat emphasis and barely any token generation. Now I struggle with mana, and see I need to add way more. I'm almost debating putting in a hexproof card or two for thalisse. She gets hit so regularly
This was SO good Joey, thank you!! I've loved the idea of Thalisse but my build just never quite came together; it always felt like I was on the back foot. Definitely going to try this out. :)
I really like Pact of the Serpent in my Thalisse deck. It's a pretty solid rate when you just need more gas, and it's hilarious when you get to ruin someone else's day with it at the very height of their powers.
I really wish the very beginning of the episode when you first start talking about the deck you would show the drop-down menu for the deck that shows all the different play styles it fits into to better contextualize why the average list is often fighting between two strategies and not homogeneous
Been waiting to see your take on Thalisse because I absolutely love this commander. Here is my recommended card. If you are playing Adeline, Resplendent Cathar in Thalisse (and you should), I strongly recommend Combat Calligrapher. Yes it costs 1 more mana. Yes it does create tokens for your opponents if they play into it (though that could work for you too), but notably: if you attack each of your opponents with so much as a dinky 1/1, you will spawn a 2/1 inkling with flying for each of those opponents. Playing it a turn before Thalisse feels great assuming it doesn't eat removal. And I do find inkling tokens to be very useful for the deck in particular as being flyers that are both black and white (for the sake of the Teysa, Orzhov scion in the deck and with white pump effects like heraldic banner.)
To run catch up ramp like keeper of the accord you need ways to get lands off your side of the battlefield field like lotus field and bounce lands. Bounce lands are also getting more powerful bc of mdfcs and channel lands
I totally get your stance on going full tokens being more consistent. But I feel the biggest problem with the average is the type of token producers suggested. A lot of it is either big mama spells you play after thallise or sorceries you play after thallisse which sets you up to get blown out. It’s more optimal to have permanents that produce steady tokens that are 4 or less mana
I'd personally swap out one of the anthems that you added for Paladin Class. Or just play it together. It makes it harder to mess with your things on your turn, is an anthem, and also has a chance to massively pump something for a MASSIVE swing
Stop doing videos on all the commanders I've half heartedly built and stuffed into deck boxes all over my office vowing to get back to them one day; my wallet can't handle all the card orders!
Suggestion for the future... if a commander is split between strategies, don't go with the average list and try to updrage to be a better split deck. Pick a theme and either do a video for each theme or do the video for the most popular theme.
Building Thalisse with both cards like Cathar's crusade for a token combat strategy and Blood artist for an Aristocrats strategy is just stupid... thats going to be a bad deck no matter what you do to it
Stop building aristocrats decks around your commander! In the eternal words of Jack Packard, "It won't work and you can't do it." Aristocrats decks are machines, and they need all of the parts on board in order to do the thing. Making your commander a key part of that machine not only slows your deck down, but it also makes your deck so much more fragile. I has so hype for Felisa, Fang of Silverquill because I'm always looking for new flavors of Aristocrats decks, but she was just bad. All the effort you put into getting counters onto your sac fodder was for naught unless Felise was down. Also, the 1cmc 1/1s that die to make 1/1 tokens are some of the best aristocrats cards in existence. Period. Two bodies. One mana. There isn't a better rate in the entire game. Hell, 2/2 tokens are bad in aristocrats decks. They're getting sacced: any mana spent for a bigger body is wasted. Same goes for splashy effects that make a lot of tokens. The card draw that Aristocrats decks can get their hands on is insane. Don't play Secure the Wastes for 8, play Ministrant of Obligation, Pawn of Ulamog, and Nether Traitor instead. If your deck is built properly you'll replace those cards before you miss them. Also, play more Nether Traitor. And go read my aristocrats primer. www.moxfield.com/decks/To0SFYHexU-oFdNSBD1dbA
