The overall design and construction of the paper and patched cartridge used here (by yourself and from the historical references) have given me an inspiration for mass producing my own for my percussion muzzleloader, a .50 cal Hawken St.Louis rifle. Hope to see more videos on your channel soon.
Nice video as always. It is interesting the difference in accuracy in patched vs cartridge in the rifle, I actually got the opposite results from my smooth bore Brown Bess.
A comparison between the 1800 Baker and the 1803 Harper's Ferry (the weapon of choice for the comparatively short lived US Regiment of Rifleman) would make a very interesting video indeed.
@@mpetersen6 The Hawken was produced for the large game (particularly bears) that trappers were running into out West. Hence it was typically a heavy caliber, like a .54 with a heavier bullet than the Pennsylvania or Kentucky rifle. Trying to compare the Baker to the long rifle isn't quite fair as one was built just for military use and the other for hunting and target shooting.
Another excellent video. You would have to be one of the most accurate and informational video makers in the weapons category on YT. Thanks from New Zealand.
Excellent presentation. As Sharpe says "All you have to do is stand, and fire three rounds a minute. Now you and I know you can fire three rounds a minute...... But can you stand?" :)
+Mac Anix It was bugging me all day, blowing in the wind... purposeless, whimsical, dancing in the breeze.... Taunting me and taxing my concentration... Had to be done...
thank you for this video, my knowledge of paper cartridges comes only from watching the Sharp movies. So seeing the paper cartridge used as wadding, and the lack of spitting the ball in was an eye opener, and interesting.
+MrTacons Sharpe has done lots for the era.... Good and bad.... The books and shows have cultivated a keen interest in the era but unfortunately, they are not at all historical when it comes to weapons handling... Good stories though!
I sometimes use paper cartridges in my early Virginia flintlock rifle. I dip the ball end of the paper cartridge in SPG lube. Then when loading, I ram the ball down with the lube dipped paper around the ball. This helps some with windage and fouling, but I still wipe the bore between shots. Groups are very good at 35-40 yards. Never tried them at longer ranges. Average spread is about 2-3 inches. 50 cal. 175 grain ball with 60 grains ffg.
The lube will certainly help, especially if the windage is tight. In a military context, there wasn't any used on cartridges, though. Outside of historical shooting, anything goes, of course! Cheers.
You and Duelist1954 have infected me, I just ordered my first Flintlock Rifle kit. My second one will be a TRS Baker, but my first has family significance and is similar to what the 95th would have faced in New Orleans. I ordered one of Jim Kiblers beautiful Southern Mountain Rifles, it is a Western North Carolina styled Rifle while Andy Jackson's Tennessee Rifles and my family would have used the similar East Tennessee style rifles. Anyway I now have your peculiar disease and I hope you are happy ;)
Awesome and informative as usual. great job. I look forward to the follow up video to this one. I guess I need to start saving my pennies - just have to get myself one of the kits so I too can have an example of my all time favourite flintlock firearm.
Very interesting when You visit the Waterloo battlefield. The KGL units used the paper cartridges when they defended La Haye Sainte and a little far from that the 95th was shooting off the French artillerymen on long distances with the patched bullets.
I'm sure that every rifleman had a mixture of ammunition. Indeed, the defence of La Haye Saint was for the most part desperate and close range... as for the the 95th in the sandpit, the Grand Battery was a bit too far away for rifle shooting, but certainly, as D'Erlon attacked there would have been ample targets...
Interesting video. I remember visiting Waterloo and the guide told us the KGL at La Haye Sainte ran out of ammo because the Baker rifle used a smaller round and the Brown Bess ammo was incompatible. I would have hated to of been them!
It's important to know that not all the KGL were armed with the Baker. Only a fraction. There were the Light Bns and the Sharpshooters of the Light Companies of the Line Bns. That said, these were the troops (about 400) who mainly garrisoned the farm.
+JohnnyH1982 A bit of the same here... Some good days and some horrendous... Frankie MacDonald has seen fit to comment on it so you know it has been bad. Great to hear from you. Hope all is well. Had a chance to chat with Tom the other day.. Great to hear from him too!
That's a nice looking rifle. I dont have any experience with any of the British or Canadian arms. I'm from Maryland and used to running around the Pennsylvania and Virginia woods with a long rifle, a Hawken or at times a Zouave rifle of American Civil War time. I'm in Kansas now, however. Just came across your channel, very enjoyable.
Interestingly enough, I have yet to uncover anything indicating fast marching until the 20th century. Plenty of Rifles' specific mention in the Victorian pams, but never anything regarding marching. The tunes are a mix of Light Infantry and Rifles stuff.
The 1803 rifle the Lewis and Clark expedition used is similar if not identical in application to the baker rifle that was adopted in the year 1800 by the British Army especially the 95th rifle regiment at Waterloo in 1815
I have always loved the Baker Rifle since i first saw it in the Sharpe television show. While i still prefer the Hawken style rifle, the Baker is a close second for me
Another great vid mate and a big thanks Also a thanks for inspiring me, with your Snider vid, to buy my first non-flintlock gun for my collection at an auction last weekend - an 1865 .577 Snider action rifle by London Arms Co., 35,1/2 ins full stocked three banded barrel Its a real beauty in lovely condition - shame of it is it will only ever sit on the wall with my other guns - no firing them for me as Im a Brit. Cheers again mate and looking forward to more in the Snider series.
+sandmanhh67 Nice to hear about your Snider... You should really make some enquiries at a local club and jump through hoops to get your licence... You won't regret it.
Great shooting! We all seem to be getting pretty consistent results with our rb tests. The Baker's group seems a little wider than I was able to get, however my '42 has a much longer barrel. I can't wait to get my hands on one of Pedersolis new Whitworths!
+murpheysmuskets Thanks Murph. That Whitworth will make for a few good videos, eh?! I imagine that the longer barrel (and the percussion lock especially) would make for a much better grouping.
It was taunting me all day..... whimsically fluttering in the breeze, distracting me from my shooting, saying "Oooo, Ooooo, Ooooo, betchyou can't hit me!"
Pure devilment that ending Rob, great video as always. It also shows off the rifle very well which is great ( and bloody annoying as I am STILL waiting for my copy Baker to arrive ) but has almost convinced me to shoot my original 1812 Carbine-bore..................I might put one round down the garden to see what happens!
+Duncan Andrews Please do,.... record it and put it up somewhere.... As a matter of fact, it phoned me the other day and asked me to plead with you to let her shoot... So,..... PLEASE,... let her shoot..... there, I said it.... :-) Hopefully the issues with your repro get worked out and you can enjoy it... Thanks again, for your kind words, Duncan.... "Devilment".... I love it...
Duncan Andrews Hey..... I can't be responsible for indiscretions YOUR rifle might get up to... Maybe it's a cry for help? Maybe "someone" needs to spend a little more time with her..... Maybe she's just starving, and needs to be fed.... Hahahahaha...
+tsmgguy Without getting into a To-mah-to/To-may-to argument..... My French tells me that it is pronounced Sah-bow..... Say-bow would be "American"..... :-)... Sah-Bot would be Canadian...... hahaha.
Can't say I fancy a foot drill music on a background - but I'm a fan, and it's always a pleasure to listen to an expert! Speaking of Sean Bean's performance - is it anywhere near practical to roll a loose naked ball down the barrel of the Baker rifle as it's shown in "Sharpe's Rifles" - without using a ramrod, just tapping the butt on a ground? Or it's just a cinematic exaggeration? Thought that gas sealing is somewhat essential in firearm, though, so it demands a tight fit for the ball...
I did. Guys are awesome, but they've tried it with smooth-bore musket... Still wondering, would the tap nesting work with the rifled barrel? In other videos you mention balls of various calibers - when explaining loose patched ball and the cartridge. Perhaps, 22ga ball should roll in nicely - and I trust that ball will even leave the barrel when fired - but would it go straight and deliver enough energy with such a loose fit and no sealing at all?
Here's the deal... in order for this to work, you have to bite off the bullet from the top of the cartridge which entails a bunch of powder in the mouth... .... and of course a lead ball in your mouth... then you have to swirl it around in there to get the paper and string off.... biting into it and "chewing" the paper off... All this while you are pouring the powder down the barrel... then with any last bits of paper removed with the fingers in the mouth, you can spit the ball down the barrel... The ball is capable of rolling down the barrel, but the process isn't as easy (or indeed healthy) as one might think.
When you get around to the follow up, I would be interested in seeing loose but preached ball especially when the patch has been cut in a cross shape. I am not sure how to adhere the patch to the ball. Possibly beeswax? Thank you for the great videos!
Hi there. I am experimenting with a number of types of patched ball cartridge right now and that style is one of them. The key is to get the shape right so it completely seals the bore, at least that's the way I'm approaching it!... Cheers.
Great Rob, looking forward to Part 2.You mentioned "pre-patched" balls & I remember seeing some Baker prepatched balls for sale on Ebay. They were apparently from an 1815-20's store of balls from a militia unit. Looking at them they had a stuck on what looked like shammy leather patch that must have been shaped something like a 4 sided clover before application to the ball. Probably never regular WD issue but looked interesting.
+Peter Martini I recall seeing something of that very type... Don't know if we are talking about the same exact image, but the one that I have, looked like a mini softball... It's one of the methods I am going to try... Also the Brunswick-style with a patch completely tied around the ball. I figure about 3 or 4 different types including the Macerone version.... Thanks for that!
Did the British never use a loading block? This is a block of wood with maybe a half dozen holes in it the diameter of the bore. A patched ball was place in each hole. This was apparently common among "Kentucky" riflemen and would certainly shave a few seconds off the loading. Also, I admire your devotion to authenticity, but you should wear safety glasses!
Rob, I wonder if the decision to cease the issue of the patched ball and powder half way through the Napoleonic was was, in some way related to the change in the nature of the war. The Peninsular Campaign was a war of skirmishing and often smaller independent units, by the time the war had moved to Flanders, the nature of the war had changed to open rolling and flat countryside suitable for line battle? Probably nothing in it and who knows, perhals individual riflemen kept their own patch and ball, especially if they were marksmen.
I imagine that the reasoning behind forgoing the issue of separate patch and ball was due to the lack of need for it. Though, to categorize the whole Peninsular War in one way would be much too general. The use of patched ball cartridges (as examined int he subsequent parts of this series) became a much easier and expedient method.
Seems like the biggest difference between the reloading done in the vid with paper cartridges, and the reloading done in the Sharpe's Universe (which I think is portrayed as a method used and taught by him alone), is that he bites and rips off the bullet, then primes the pan, pour the rest down the barrel, stuff down the paper, and finally the ball is spat down into the muzzle to be rammed or tapped down. In the show he was teaching basic infantry; those using the Brown Bess, so wasn't demonstrating with patches. For when accuracy is needed, I think either the powder horn method was used, or I suppose the ball was spat onto a patch on the muzzle so as to be rammed down with it. I sort of recall the patches being made of leather rather than cloth, but that might be incorrect. I wonder, on average, how many rounds must be fired from a Bess before tap loading can no longer be done safely, with the ball likely ending up stuck only partially into the barrel, which is of course a very dangerous proposition. For that matter, I wonder if it differs much for the Baker Rifle. Something tells me that with the rifling, the Baker would get gummed up more quickly without using patches. It's certainly mentioned however that the Baker Rifle can be used like a Brown Bess if not given a patch. It won't bite into the rifling, resulting in not nearly as much accuracy, but its faster, and 3 shots per minute is precisely what he focused on for the smoothbore infantry. I think when he demonstrates it in the book Sharpe's Rifles, he either JUST managed to fire a 4th shot, or was JUST on his way to ramming down the ball for his 4th shot when Harper called 60 seconds. In Cornwell's The Fort, I distinctly recall a British Officer, I think a young Lieutenant, demonstrating 5 rounds in 1 minute. He cheats though; stabs his ramrod into the ground for easier access. His muscle memory must not have been a hair out of place, because even with ramrod at such a ready position, 5 shots in a minute is God-like. Based during the American War for Independence, 1779 specifically. Incredible stuff. Even in using the 'tap loading' method of reloading, that kind of rate of fire must be nearly impossible. Years upon years of practice, hundreds, if not thousands of rounds fired. Day in and day out, until it comes as naturally as breathing, or as drinking the booze provided in daily rations... ahh, that would have been a big plus for encouraging me to join the Military if I was around back in the day. Regular meals with drink provided daily (when possible)? Where do I sign up?! I've made and eaten ship's biscuits/hardtack before, letting it soak in coffee or tea helps the flavour, specifically tea. Just hope that it doesn't result in a 'Barret's Privateers' situation, being left a young legless man on a Pier, in the case of the Navy. For those who survive amputation in the Army, the first destination upon 'retirement' was likely the nearest pub, I figure. Savings likely wouldn't last long, I doubt there was a pension back then, so if a man lacking a lower limb couldn't find a job that didn't require much mobility, or if a man missing an arm couldn't find a job that didn't require two hands, becoming a homeless beggar would likely have been the outcome I figure, ESPECIALLY if it was merely a young Private or Corporal, someone not born a gentleman, who didn't buy their way into being an Officer, who didn't have a rich family to care for him. Rough times... but damn fascinating all the same.
+NormanMatchem Search for "csadler" on youtube... He is a member of a re-enactment group in Australia portraying the 95th... They have done a great series of videos on similar subjects... including spit loading. Loading with anything but paper cartridge was not used with the Brown Bess... No patch, no wads,.... nothing except the method used in this clip... When I get around to lugging the Bess out for a video, I'll demonstrate it. Cheers.
britishmuzzleloaders Yeah I've seen a few of their vids, great stuff. They also tested that tapping method vs using a ramrod. If memory serves, while the tapping was faster, it didn't seat the ball as nicely, resulting in less velocity (A chronograph was used, of course). With the ball patted down against the powder with a ramrod, it helped to propel the projectile with a bit more 'oomph'. A vid of theirs I recently seen was about shooting the ramrod from the Baker Rifle, like what Harper did in the show. Not much distance; about 8m with a standard powder charge, 16m with a double powder charge, so with a half charge of powder as used in the show, it's likely only about 4m of distance would be gotten. Doubtful that it would provide the velocity needed to pierce someone's throat. More dramatization.
Good Day to you Sir! First of all I want to say I really like your videos and style. I was wondering which company did you get your Baker Rifle from? So far I've only managed to find a smoothbore version for reenactment...
Ah,.... the most difficult and stressful part of the build. I used a drill press, a level, and a clamp to drill the keyways through the barrel key loops with the barrel clamped in place... Three holes side by side, then finished it out with jewellers files and a knife. There is a better way using a press with a locating nail clamped to the base pointing up, matching exactly the tip of the drill bit...
I am curious if you are concerned with getting any sparks in your eyes when you shoot. What are your feelings on the various black powder substitutes that are available. Where do you get your Black Powder? Sorry about the questions. Great video as usual.
It's coming... I'm working out how to best make the cartridges.... Its proving to be a bit of a pain... in time though. Thanks for the interest. I'm itching to get back to the Baker.
Are you planning on making the part 2 of this video soon ? Have you talked about paper cartridges containing a patch for a rifle in some of your other videos ? Anyway, I really liked this video, thanks.
I sense if a Soldier from the 60th or 95Th was to fire on the ground he would need assistance from a fellow soldier to load for him , and hand over the Musket ? If on campaign at the end of the day , would he have to restock his pouch ,would they be re-supplied from the rear supplies or he would be making his own crudely through the night( including paper cartridge method ) ??
No, one can load in their back with some difficulty depending on the ammunition used. There are many more Baker videos on the Channel if you are interested. Many of the things you ask about are covered therein ... Ammunition was supplied, although the knowledge of how to make it (it's very simple) was known to all for use in emergencies..
+Charles C. Plumley ..... find some,....... cookies to eat while you watch the video? .......find some,...... money to buy a Baker?,...... find some,...... balloons to shoot?.... :-)
love your videos.i was wondering when the troops were preparing there ammo in camp they would have access to animal fat .would they have a pot of melted fat and dipped the ball end with paper in to the fat as a lubricant ? would like to know your thoughts . would it foul up more .thinking what I would do if I was a one of them. But I don't have the experience of a Neopolionic soldier .
Hi there. Round ball cartridges intended to be fired without patching were not lubricated. They were small enough not to need any. As for lubricating patches, tallow would have been supplied...
Excellent and informative video! Do you mold your own musket balls? If so, what brand/style do you use for the smaller ball you are using for the patched shots?
+McNamaraB1 I actually used the same ball for both.... Seemed to work OK.. They are .595 and are made from a Jeff Tanner mould (he's from the UK and does very decent and reasonably priced moulds to order) Glad you enjoyed the clip! Cheers.
You explained that the paper of the cartridge formed a "Rudimentary Sabot" at about 9:40 Was this by design or by lucky happenstance with the design of the paper cartridge?
Hi there. Since paper cartridges evolved from systems like the "12 Apostles" or other loose powder systems, I would think that the sabot effect would have been an unintended benefit. That said, it is a very rudimentary and not completely effective sabot.
Though apparently not Period, might not lubing the paper cartridge, smoothbore style, help Windage and Accuracy ? I would think that there had to be an army somewhere, that tried this.
Smoothbore (unmatched round ball) cartridges were not lubricated... As this series deals with service ammunition, I used that which closely resembled the historical.
Having experience only with modern firearms, I'm surprised at the accuracy (or lack thereof by modern standards) of the rifle with patched ball. I wasn't exactly expecting sub-MOA, but about eight MOA? Wow. I'm not even sure they could sell an eight minute rifle these days. Also, I wonder if using a Minie ball would make a difference. I know it isn't quite period accurate, but I would imagine that a better projectile would give you more accuracy.
That's history... The point here, is not to get the absolute most out of the Baker in any way, it's to get the most out of it historically... no expanding ball....
@@britishmuzzleloaders It was interesting either way. You read about the "pinpoint accuracy" of these old rifles, I was kinda shocked at how poor it is by modern standards. Then again, I think I read somewhere that a Brown Bess would hold something like 40 MOA, so that is a massive improvement.
So I have always heard of the in accuracy of the Brown bess. Now I shoot an English style Fowler with a patched ball and i find the accuracy good enough for killing size groups out to 75 yards. So, if the brown bess were loaded this way, at least for the first shot and the shot well aimed, it would cause far more casualties and death. Did they not ever patch their muskets this way?, i realize that cloth was costly, but for an army it would be a cheap expense in the scheme of things
A quick question @britishmuzzleloaders is the method off of Sharpe (bite,pour,spit,tap) viable or is it a method they made up for the show? If you could reply that would be great. I love the videos!
Could a cartrage be made such as its pushed down the bore it passes some blade shaped like a vegtable skinner grabs the edges of the paper and causes the paper cartrage rip open at the back dumping the powder down the barrel and possably fold onto itself for a tighter seal?
