These interviews with the original designers are absolutely amazing, what a resource for historians of the future and people like me who are just fascinated by these design insights. Thank you Mr Manoogian for taking the time to talk about your time at GM,
Thanks to John for sharing! My father had an early '85 that he picked up Labor Day weekend 1984. He had done a factory order. It was Academy Gray with gray leather interior, a red pinstripe and wire wheel covers. Other options included power passenger seat, cassette player, and leather steering wheel. He skipped the rear defrost, but it never proved to be a problem, as the back window was so upright that it never seemed to fog. It was my father's second Cadillac -- his first was an '81 Seville. I want to say the Deville's sticker was about $24k, about the same as his '81 Seville. The '85 was a big deal. The interior room was impressive. We pretty regularly had six people in the car. My dad liked planes, so he thought the "aircraft style" doors were pretty cool. I was a kid at the time, so it took me a few years to really understand what he meant when he said "the engine was sideways." Unfortunately, that car was a mechanical mess. Two water pump failures in the first three years -- one of them was on a Friday when we were out of town for my father's best friend's wedding. The nearby dealer either couldn't or wouldn't take the car for some reason. An independent shop ended up fixing it. I don't remember if the car was still under warranty, but I recall my dad got at least a partial reimbursement after talking to the service manager at the dealer back home. The other water pump failure happened on a holiday when my sister and I were off from school. My dad took the day off from work to take us to a movie. The car broke in the mall parking lot. We called a tow truck, and I'm pretty sure we eventually made it to the movie, but I don't remember how we got home. Years later, I recall hearing that GM put a lifetime warranty on the water pumps because the failure rate was so high, and they couldn't figure out a permanent fix, but I'm not sure if that's true. The '85 -- like the '81 -- also suffered from electrical gremlins that caused the door locks to go up and down at random times on their own. My sister and I would joke that there were poltergeists in the car. After 5 years, the transmission needed replacement, so my dad punted the car and bought a Mazda 929S. In 1992, after two years with the Mazda -- he leased a '92 Eldorado in Polo Green and drove only Cadillacs for the next 20+ years. Like you guys mentioned, there were a few cues that were only in '85. The big backlight, the black bumper moldings, the minimal chrome rocker moldings and the seat design, I believe, were all exclusive to '85. Personally, I didn't like the tighter backlight that came in the later cars, as it clearly looked like a tacked-on afterthought. Overall, I miss the big side windows cars had back then. These days, automakers put these huge glass roofs in cars to make them feel "airier," and make up for today's high beltlines, which give a feeling of claustrophobia. The problem is that all the glass in the world up there isn't going to keep you from feeling like you're driving a bathtub. Thanks again for this series. Obviously, this one really resonated with me.
@@mblackmon7191 My father's Cadillac roster was as follows: 81 Seville V-8-6-4 85 Sedan DeVille 92 Eldorado 94 SLS 96 SLS 99 Deville D'Elegance 01 SLS 04 SLS (bought back by GM for paint/finish issues) 04 SLS (to replace the first one) 07 STS 3.6 10 SRX 3.0 Performance 13 XTS Luxury 13 ATS 2.0T Luxury (for mom) 15 XTS Luxury Dad had a bunch of early Northstars but never had any engine trouble. However, as you can see, he never had them for more than the term of a lease. I know the Northstar has a bit of a tarnished reputation, mainly because of head gasket issues. For all I know, all his Northstar Cadillacs went on to blow head gaskets after he got rid of them, but while he had them, they were generally considered great, high-tech, world-class engines, at least as far as I was concerned. I think, for that reason, I don't have the image of Northstars as being bad engines the way a lot of people do. My understanding is that head studs basically fix the early Northstars but that that can be an expensive fix. From what I understand, the later Northstars are pretty reliable.
Thank you because I remember my grandpa loved Cadillac and I always wished he’d got one of the 90s modes because when they came out they looked so cool and modern. I had a 2010 CTS and enjoyed it, the only thing is it seemed to lack a little shove from the V6
I’ve really enjoyed John’s appearances here, Adam. He has a very engaging way of talking. I hope you are able to have more sessions with him, perhaps talking about GM Design in general during his time there. Too bad that the first of these FWD DeVilles were saddled with the awful HT4100 engine which badly needed further development.
@@RareClassicCars I agree with ab348, John is very engaging and interesting to listen to. Being a retired engineer myself, I'd like to hear more about how the automotive engineering group interfaced with the design side of the house. Was that always an antagonistic relationship, or could it be more of a shared responsibility partnership?
@@RareClassicCars Been daily driving my 84 Seville with 166k miles and the gremlins mostly consist of electrical issues such as the AC not blowing 100% of the time and the digital cluster going out just a few weeks of owning it and then no air coming out the vents other than that it a very reliable car even with the 4100.
My neighbors had brought an 86 or 7 home that had been in her father's garage for 25 years after he passed away and they asked me if I could get it started but first I had to remove the Viper alarm system and upon looking underneath it, I told him it just really wasn't worth it because all of the Magnesium parts and suspension and everything else was just pockmarked and corroded to the point where there was not really much left except a facsimile of what the part once looked like. They just put it into the garage and it's been sitting ever since
@@RareClassicCars I had an 85 that I absolutely loved, HT4100 notwithstanding. I lost trust in it when the oil pump failed. I never had coolant leakage or cam issues, I used the coolant pellets. Mine had the interior like the blue one shown, in light gray.
John’s candidness is refreshing! These videos touched a nerve: when I was a boy, I wanted to be a car designer…that never happened and I always wonder, what if? So, these interviews really resonate and give me an insight into an alternative career that never was…
These episodes with John are really cool. He is such a successful man and is incredibly laidback and not ego driven at all. Thanks to him and especially thanks to you for putting it together for us to see.
Thank you Adam for having Mr. Manoogian on to share his insights. I always had a soft spot for these FWD Devilles 85-93. Such a clean, paired down design, yet every inch a Cadillac. I'm 43, so I was a child when these were new; in 8th grade when this generation ended, but I remember lobbying my parents hard for one of these every time they bought a new car; to no avail. My baby boomer parents looked at Cadillac as something for "old people." That said, my mom now loves her '18 XTS (that I bought her to replace her ancient Infiniti Q45 :-) And I really enjoyed my CT6.
I learned to drive on 1993 coupe deville , we are the same age. We still have the car today, it is my 79 yr old mothers car. No rust. 113k mi. She had before this a 1988 coupe deville , and a 1985 coupe deville , with these ribbed leather seats, that one was in the chicago auto show for 1985 before we bought it.
My father had an 86 Sedan deVille in Academy Grey with matching leather interior. His had the limousine rear window. I recall trying to talk him out of getting it as he traded his 81 Eldorado for it. But the 86 was very pleasant to drive and was quite comfortable. He eventually traded it in for an 89 in Antelope firemist. Loved learning what John shared regarding the development of these cars. Your interviews with John, Wayne and Marc are invaluable to fans of automotive history and are a valuable historic archive for generations to come.
Adam, your channel has definitely become one of, if not the best automotive channels on RU-vid. There are elements of almost every aspect of the automotive landscape. Even in the beginning you brought a different perspective and showed us things that most others don't think about or think of as important. Thank you for starting this channel. And keep up the good work
John and Adam, this was great! The first time I saw an '85 DeVille was driving my Dodge K Car company ride down road, and did a U-turn to go back to look at it. It was a blue coupe', with matching leather seats. The more I looked at it, the more it looked like a Caddy. And sitting inside it, and taking hold of the wheel, there was no mistaking its DNA. The studio guys got it right!
Wow, seeing John's drawings is amazing. There are some beautiful cars there. It's a shame that they didn't use more of his ideas. For those to be drawn in the early 80's just shows that he knows what he's doing.
Thank you John and Adam. I owned a 93 Deville. It was a very clean design, very quiet and smooth. Still had that very distinctive Cadillac Design.
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Thank you John for sharing your GM experiences! I was in high school up in Fresno California and I liked those models. Not for my demographics, I was into Z28, Corvette, Pontiac Fiero etc...yet those mid 80's GM cars were nice! I was driving a one owner 21,000 miles 1967 Pontiac LeMans coupe! Great memories! Greetings from Hollywood California.
I Love Cadillacs! I remember the very first 1985 Down sized Cadillac Coupe DeVille I saw. It was Love at first sight! It was on the showroom floor at Flowers Cadillac in Galveston, TX. It was Gorgeous! What a thrill to meet the designer and see the artist renderings!! Thank You!!
John is such a magnificent artist! I absolutely love seeing all of his renderings. It's so kind of him to share his time and knowledge with us. And Adam, it's so cool that you know all of these influential people in the automotive industry. Amazing!
I rented several of these cars at the time for business. It was a joy to drive, even for long distances. I really liked the looks and it was so much easier to drive in cities than the older RWD body.
I remember these cars well and how much of a departure they were from previous generations. I really enjoy watching these videos and gaining insight into their design. I wish my father was still alive to watch these.
Thank you John for your time and insightful stories. By the way, when I worked in Cadillac Consumer Relations (88-91) I talked to a lot Cimmaron owners who really liked their cars. 😀
This is auto history laid down in person and in detail - right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. 😢Neither Mr. Manoogian nor you will live forever, but these videos will. Thank you.
1988 coupe deville was my first car, bought it in 2012 for 3,600 and drove it daily! I got about 18 mpg on average, and put 70k miles on it before parting ways! LOVED IT, over all low maintenance, just ate up a couple water pumps. The digital dash and interior lighting was very impressive and all of my passengers got a kick out of the “self-leveling”… and the ride was superb! Thanks Adam!
A wonderful design work. I owned a 1984 Seville Elegant in the past and then a 1989 Fleetwood Sixty Special. And although I drive Tesla Model S today, I miss the Cadillacs very much.
Thank you so much for coming on and doing this interview Mr. Manoogian. My grandparents had (what I believe) was a 1987 Cadillac Deville. It was such a beautiful and comfortable car, especially being a kid in the 80's. I napped in the backseat many times! Your years at Cadillac are, outside of the 1960, the most beautiful cars they produced. All the Best, from Memphis, TN.
No disrespect to anyone involved, but I really and truly enjoyed this video a lot more than I first thought I would. Wow, this was fantastic to see the interview with John Manoogian. I owned a 1990 DeVille a few years ago and though I loved the way it looked and the way it looked parked in my garage, it seemed to like the mechanic's garage better and was always over there! But, when I think back, this one was definitely one of my favorite cars!
John’s insight & reflection on what he was trying to show & why was very informative & interesting. Thank you John for letting Adam pick your memories.
If only low profile tires and big rims were available when John did those sketches. Those cars would have looked SOOO much better in reality! Great interview!
Hello, It's good to see this kind of program, especially since so many people love the old style Caddillacs. What I really enjoy about this era of vehicle is that they are more mechanical than computerized. The lines are clean and fit a comfortable cabin 1985-88.
In the 70s and 80s I used to draw side views of cars all the time, so this is very interesting. I sometimes wonder if I could have ventured into this field.
I'd love to hear Mr. Manoogian speak on the infamous Eldorado/Seville ('86-'91) of that era! I personally think the '90 Seville is a beautiful car, as Cadillac did just the right amount of tweaks on it by that point. Of course, the 3rd generation was replaced a couple years later.
Totally! The Seville style was closer to the 1975-79 successful original … yet the manic clean to casket back to clean style….totally lost buyer continuity and the 1986 Eldo / Riv / and Toronado looked just like nicer N cars…..at least the Seville didn’t have an Olds/Buick clone, and survived to let the 1992 and the awesome 1998 Seville give some breath of life and sales to the brand.
The 1987 was my favorite year for these. I was in my early teens when these came out and I remember being super curious about the downsized design. The ride quality in the 1987 Sedan de Ville was so smooth and controlled compared to the rear wheel drive designs. I couldn’t believe how heavy the car felt in spite of how much smaller it was. These were very contemporary for the time, and definitely kept in pace with the “Contemporary Spirit of Cadillac” image GM was going for. I’m not sure the demographic that actually purchased the car was what they initially intended. My observation was that more people in the 45+ age group went for these cars, rather than the younger crowd Cadillac was aiming for. As a 45+ man who has fond memories of the ‘87 Sedan de Ville, I am still enamored with this car. This design was innovative, and most definitely WORKED for its time.
Thank you John for sharing this history with us! I always thought the 89-92 Fleetwood Coupe with the skirts was so pretty and looked like one of the last drawings you showed us in the video. Cheers!!!
What a joy to have John recalling the thinking behind the design ideas. I'm so thankful that he kept his drawings, creative people surround themselves with all manner of ideas. So if we move forward to the 1990's, would all design ideas be saved to a hard drive - no more beautiful hand drawn renderings? Thank you, John and Adam, for the Art of Design.
I really love your ability to bring out the "banter" in people, Adam. It makes the interview interesting and fun. I have to confess that I about had a stroke when these models first came out. I hated them. I can appreciate them more now then I did back then, but I still don't love them. I think they have a light, flimsy look. Back when Mercedes-Benz cars looked like they were formed from a solid piece of steel, these just didn't compare to me. It was like GM was trying to continually shrink the traditional American sedan when a whole new approach was needed. Ford seemed to realize this and, thus, the Taurus/Sable. I just recalled, and wanted to add, that the first time I saw one in metal was at Carlson Cadillac in Salt Lake City, UT. I sat in a maroon Sedan deVille, hit the memory button on the seat and was slowly squeezed into the steering wheel a la Christine. A salesman saved me with much laughter and embarrassment on my part.
I've always wanted to do what John did as a car designer. That was my dream job ever since elementary school. Some of those sketches has some of the exact same styling cues in today's cars. Higher belt line and short overhang both front and back. The wheel designs mimics 19" to 22" and low profile tires. Great stuff love it!
At the time as a teen I really did not like the ‘85-‘88 DeVilles. My Dad was appalled. (I must admit I thought the ‘85s on looked good in red though.). I liked the ‘89 refresh much more. My mom drove a gray over gray ‘90, which I was very found of driving when I could and it’s looks. Weird as time goes by while I like still like the refresh more, I have grown to have a new appreciation of the earlier original look. I think Cadillac should have kept the original seat design at least as an option. To my eye it was able to look both contemporary and Cadillac at the same time. After hearing John talk about the design process and the thought that went into them, I really thinking “Yeah, I should try and buy one.” Thank you for the interview very good as always.
I very much enjoy John’s videos. He just seems like such a friendly, open guy. It’s always so interesting to hear about the thought process behind these cars and it’s great when you show photos of the production car to tie in the way the design ideas were executed.
Elements of that second-to-last drawing at around 14:00 were used on Broughams and Fleetwoods, like the bevel atop of the trunk, the thin horizontal backup lights above the bumper, and the chrome lower cladding. Speaking of the big boat Cadillacs, I would love to see a video about their design as they really are the quintessential classic Cadillacs and they’re the only ones you haven’t featured given the Eldorado, Seville, small Deville, and, hell, even the Cimarron, have been discussed!
I was 17 when my parents bought a brand new, dark grey '85 Sedan de Ville. I loved that car. Still a gorgeous looking car and much better looking than most of the cars built today, IMO. And sure, I was just a kid driving "daddy's car"...but I still had a lot of fun driving that car around town. Felt like a big shot even if I was not...lol. Sadly, we only had it until early 1988, when my dad lost control on an icy stretch of highway. Thankfully, my dad was not seriously injured, but the car was written off.
Mr. Manoogian, thank you for your interviews! They provide the backstory for what we saw in the showroom and on the road, and it's a fascinating tale. Beautifully illustrated and well told.
It's great hearing from John and getting his first-hand recollections. I love his sense of humor and the way he explains the reasons and motivations behind various design features. Thank to him for appearing in the video!
Adam, your interview videos are great! Especially your talk with John! I would love for you to cover the Allante (as John mentioned, the 2 seater). That was such a unique vehicle. I was 15 when I sat in a 1990 Allante. It has been my dream car ever since!! Also was partial to the 89 Toronado Trofeo with the color touch screen. My parents had a 89 Ninety-Eight Regency Brougham. It was a great car. Especially the 3800 engine.
Mike Mosher yes I agree please do a feature video on the Allante. It was also my dream car and I was fortunate to be able to own 2 of them. My first one was a white with black interior 91 and my 2nd one was a 93 only year with the Northstar and the last year for the model it was exterior color flax (very light yellow) rare color for a reason. It had a taupe - ish color interior. The 93 was the faster of the two and I loved it. That said I still loved the 91 the most. It was my first that I got when I was only 26. It was a very big deal to be able to afford such a car so young. I loved the color combo and the custom for the Allante Recaro seats were absolutely amassing both in looks and comfort. The 93 was not my favorite color combo at all, when buying it used you get what you get when it's a deal that falls in your lap. I also hated the Cadillac seats they replaced the original Recaro with. Really hated them. Still loved the car over all just liked the 91 way way more. Been really looking around the last few months thinking about getting another one. We will see.
John, your talent and work is phenomenal 👏 and it's an honor to hear your stories and see what was, and what might have been, had the Car (and Cadillac) gods allowed you a freer reign. With great admiration and respect 🖖🙏 🇨🇦
I had the 86 FWD Fleetwood brown with a darker brown vinyl roof. Kept it polished and the roof armor all shined. Was a damn good looking car. Had the 4100, but I wasn't stomping on it anyway. Loved the air suspension floated down the road stiffly.
I had one of these. Aside from frequent motor mount failures and front windows dropping off their tracks every 6 months, it was a terrific luxury car. Got 28 mpg freeway and 22 city mpg. A beauty!
Fun interview. When I was in my early 20s my Dad was able to starting buying new Cadillacs every year or every other year. So he had one of those `85 DeVilles. I think he also had an `87 and then an `88 Eldorado and others. Then Mom and Dad kept both his `89 and `90 DeVilles for many years. I got the `90 when it was almost 20 years and it was an awesome car, but unfortunately it got wrecked. I had loved that car.
These cars were ubiquitous amongst my suburban Michigan neighborhood growing up in the late 1980s & 90s. Just about every retired GM engineer on my street had at least one of these Cadillacs in their driveway. These (and the other C&H bodied platform mates) still look good today.
The artwork is always cool to see. Recognizing most of the design cues that were later used for '90s Cadillacs. I felt like they really nailed the modern design for Cadillac a little later with the '89 Deville and Fleetwood.
You two are great together, a really fun watch. How about the GM two seaters, not counting the Corvette, like the Saturn Sky, Fiero, Reatta, Pontiac Solstice, Cadillac Corvette and so on. Thanks again to you and John.
This was a great interview, I really love to learn the behind-the-scenes stories from the experts who made it happen. As a teen in the 80s, Cadillac just wasn't my thing, but I do remember thinking that the '85 Deville finally brought Cadillac up to the (then) modern-day in terms of its clean styling. And then on the other side of the coin it seemed like all of the old-timers were saying it was blasphemous to have a FWD Cadillac, yadda yadda yadda. Time marches on, grandpa! lol
THANK YOU both, these interviews are top shelf in my opinion, wonderful to hear the designers comments. You are a great interviewer with genuine interest in it all. Really appreciate watching these so much, and hope for more!
Really enjoyed seeing the sketches of the proposed designs. I'd really like to see the proposed designs for the 1965 to 1970 Cadillac's, Olds 98s and Buick Electra. Those years and that era will always be my favorite as it's the time I became interested in cars.
I was born in 1968 and became a Cadillac buff when I was 6; when a neighbor of ours brought home a brand new, gleaming Emberglow Firemist Coupe De Ville d'Elegance, (YES, the d'Elegance package was available on DeVille's, but rarely ordered). So, while most boys my age were drooling over Corvettes and pony cars; I was typically drooling over their father's or grandfather's cars... 😄 Sadly, I'm not a fan of these cars and neither were most other Cadillac (luxury car) buyers... hence the dramatic uptick in sales for the Lincoln Town Car in the mid '80s; coupled with their humorous commercials about "what a luxury car should be." Apparently Cadillac agreed because while the technical components remained, (FWD, etc.); the overall dimensions went back to the 1984 standards with the introduction of the redesigned Fleetwood/De Ville in 1993/1994. I'm not saying these cars didn't have their good points, but even today, most Americans prefer larger cars... that's why F-150s and Suburbans are top sellers.
I still own my 1985 "C" Body Fleetwood. Parts are few and far between, after three (3) 4100 engine transplants. It was necessary to morph to a 4.5L powerplant, but "Black Beauty still rides like a dream and looks "Classy". To hear the designer recite the work to produce this platform is a treat. If anyone has an address for Mr. Manoogian, I'd like to send a thank you card.
I always enjoy Mr. Manoogian's insights into his past works at GM, because I learn something new every time. As a teenager back in the 80's I was seeing GM trying to get away from the squared off heavy rectangular look into more sleeker designs. GM's problem thanks to skilled designers like John wasn't styling as GM's cars were attractive, it was building quality and reliability into their cars which takes heavy financial capital and long term commitment. Back then with head honchos like Roger Smith and others, GM always seem to me to cheap out on engineering while wasting billions buying out EDS and Hughes Electronics, who by the way used to make semiconductors which today are in seriously short supply. My respects to Mr Manoogian, I cant wait to hear about his time in the 90's at GM.
Very enjoyable and educational, Thanks to you John for your openness, and yourself Adam, for these great presentations. We as consumers would never have access to this history (especially from the very people that were there) if you weren't putting forth the effort. Thanks.
My family bought a loaded '85 Fleetwood fwd trading off a 1979 Seville. The engine burned oil from the start, but other than three a/c compressors, the Cadillac was trouble free transportation for eight years. I personally drove the car many thousands of miles while we owned it, and it was comfortable ride with excellent handling. The Fleetwood was handed down to younger family members and was finally sold to a mechanic that wanted it. There were a number of BOSCH relays under the hood, I'm not certain what they supported, but it lead me to believe that some of the technology was European.
The first Cadillac I ever rode in was a Fleetwood from this era. My family had a Mercedes 300SD. My neighbor bought their new Fleetwood and I rode in it from LA to San Diego. I was 6'3" and there were five in the car in total. It was very comfortable and roomy like our 300SD, but personally the exterior styling never wowed me as much as the full sized Cadillacs.
