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Great video and super interesting topic but I don't understand why you've added a sample of Suicide Silence's You Only Live Once music video because Mitch Lucker died of a car accident and as far as I'm aware he was not suffering from drug addiction or like mental health issues so I did not fully understood the reason why you've added it
Sometimes the music is just better when they have addiction issues. Like early metallica or slipknot. They were amazing and aggressive when they were alcoholics. They got sober and im happy for them. But the decline in quality is noticeable.
I remember kid cudi came out with that banger album and took off then immediately caught shit for this specifically. And I think it was just him saying he didn’t smoke weed.
It seems like society values someone who did drugs and got clean a lot more than someone who just never did drugs. It's like if you want credibility or attention, you have to practically hit rock bottom and then dig yourself out and then you're a praiseworthy hero with valuable life experience, but if you just avoid drugs people think you're a nerd. Or. Even worse, they don't think about you at all.
I see a lot of that narrative with some older Asking Alexandria fans regarding their old music and their previous "sex, drugs and rock n' roll" image. I might like their old stuff better, too, but in no way do I think they should go back down that (allegedly label-forced) path again. It was just making them screwed up (especially Danny Worsnop, who almost died because of his drug problems).
Well done Finn, a much needed discussion. Ozzy talked about his addiction saying "if you're working in an office and came in drunk wearing a dress, they'd send you home or get help. When I did it they said, 'well, it's gonna be a great show tonight.'"
Layne Staley was definitely the one that opened my eyes to all of this at the time. That guy's demise was devastating. He turned into a recluse and died all alone, without no one even being able to recognize him. It's heartbreaking what happens to all these people, amazing human beings that carry so much pain. Money can't buy happiness.
It’s the artists fault that they died. Plenty of artists that DONT die . We are conflating artist with Junkie . You don’t have to be a junkie to be an artist . And if you are a successful artists , you have more of an advantage for getting the best over any of your fans . Layne and Kurt leaned into the medias discovery of their use .
The death of Amy Winehouse was the eye opening moment for me. We all literally saw this poor girl slowly kill herself, and if they weren't cheering in the audience, they were laughing at the tabloids. Even going so far as to guess when (not if) she would die. Each time I'd see her on TV she looked physically worse. When she died I looked back and realized just how sick it was the way everyone treated her, myself included.
I get what you’re saying, but what were we to do? We had to hope that those close to her could influence her in the right direction. Sometimes no amount of help will have an effect.
@@ASM881 not trash talk her when she's alive and say she's the best after dying. Lot people do this and it's sad fake love. There are real ones too but there lots like these...
That Britney paparazzi era got seriously dark. At one point, a restaurant owner apparently offered Britney a "private" table to get away from the cameras, only to direct the paps to that same location for a payoff. The look on Britney's face afterwards was hard to see.
The Amy Winehouse situation is disgusting if I'm being honest. Now that she's dead, everyone acts like she was a tragic loss and a musical genius 'taken too soon' (which she was by the way) but while she was alive people hated her. The media treated her like a punching bag and it was completely socially acceptable to mock her and berate her for being an out-of-control addict. People completely flipped as soon as she died but the warning signs were clearly there and she could've been helped. Everyone knew it. Instead we decided to encourage her self-destruction for our entertainment. I saw her live at a festival in 2008 and she was great. I felt bad for her and seeing her live really made me appreciate her when before I was indifferent.
I remember right after Chester died there was video of Aaron Carter clearly in crisis going around online and people thought it was funny. And I remember saying "you wanted Chester to reach out for help, but then you turn around and make fun of someone else for doing exactly that"
To me a perfect example of this topic would be Ian Curtis from joy division, granted it wasn't the fans fault for his demise and not many understood his lyrics, but he was absolutely writing songs that were just a cry for help, the song Shadowplay described this topic perfectly by basically saying everyone was just watching him die every time he preformed and that no one even cared or noticed.
His story made me so sad, he was way too young and going trough some serious health problems that were aggravated when he had to perform. I just don’t understand how no one around him could stop this
@@memeN036 from what I've gathered from interviews people described ian as the type of person who didn't like to express his feelings as a way to not burden others, it's unfortunate but a lot people are like that sadly
It's really messed up how our society accepts, mythologizes and commodifies martyrdom of our favorite artists, seen as products of fiction and not human beings. It's almost like we want our favorite artists to die the moment we liked them the most, to eternalize that moment in time you were 'there when it happened'.
@@Sheenoobie It's not whether or not you have. How many times have you heard some thing along the lines of 'I remember when Cobain/Hendrix/Joplin died/was alive.'?
I think your point of fans putting that pressure on artists by saying "you saved my life" is incredibly spot on. I almost wish there was a training ground for artists to help prepare them for the kind of truths and pressures that people put on them.
“What’s my drug of choice? Well what have you gottttt?” ~ Alice (Junkhead). When I was once at a really low point in my life about a year ago I was only a weed and whiskey type of person but after becoming homeless at 18 I started to not give a fuck anymore about those 2 familiar habits and each time I’d get offered anything from pills to coke to Molly I could hear those lyrics in my head knowing damn well this isn’t what I do…… Glad I’m out of that shit place in life now. Alice carried me thru those dark days, R.I.P. Layne🖤
@Rips I've read that book numerous times I went through the same thing after my dad died when I was 18 I think I read go ask Alice when I was in middle school for the first time
@Rips your comment really hits home for me. I'm thankfully in recovery now, but at 19 after becoming heavily addicted to opiates after 2 big surgeries 6 weeks apart, I thought the same way. For a long time, I destroyed myself with anything I could get my hands on. My heart hurts for Anyone who goes through addiction. Love to you and all the best.
Sad how two days before you released this, Aaron Carter had also just died :( Seemed like a super sad, super tragic situation too. Saw a bunch of posts on reddit with people saying nothing but genuinely good things about him as a human being. May not have been fans of his music, but his kind personality really won a lot of people over to just be fans of him. 34 is still way too young to die :(
Aaron was 2 years younger than me. I saw that kid come up as an aspiring artist myself. I even liked Backstreet Boys back then, so finding out Nick's little brother was making his own mark was interesting. I was never going to be a fan, but I noticed, especially as the years went on, the feedback from fans of Aaron were really positive in his favor. He loved to know he made people feel good with his creations and he went out of his way to let them know it means a great deal to him. Regardless of that, Aaron could not keep up with the sadness of accepting the reality of this life we humans live. He didn't give up. He just couldn't balance his rationality and his mayhem at once anymore. The realm of the public pop culture idol is a system that utilizes its perpetuity in taking advantage of those who lack the mental strength to see and know their own worth.
What's crazy is that I have the same birthday as Aaron Carter. The family issues were practically the same on my end. I died during surgery but was revived 2 months ago. The whole reconciliation process was tough considering I completely understand the whole losing trust and losing friends from past actions. Either people were unresponsive or accepted the apology and I never heard from them again. My sister was born in January and his brother Nick was born in January as well. I don't know about you but it's honestly freaky to find this all out.
I haven't seen the stuff on Reddit but the comments on all of his social media accounts were like 90% negative. Most of it about his looks and asking about drug use and how many drugs he was doing. Some of it really nasty talking about how he takes care of his child and how his wife/fiance was gonna cheat on him. It was constant and completely unnecessary. Tbh I have no idea why he continued to post cause it was bad.
Whats even crazier is the fact that a huge amount of people clowned him and dunked on him when he was alive, and nkw that hes gone, those same people are posting comments saying how sad it is and RIP and all this bullshit. They all switched up so fast, its disgusting.
The part about fans not wanting celebrities to get better is so true. This is a completely different genre, but I always see jokes on Twitter about people wanting Mary J Blige to go through a turmoil so she could put out a fire album. When she had a divorce, everyone was cheering for her pain. All they kept commenting about was how her next album was going to be amazing. That always stuck with me
I remember seeing the Avicii documentary "Avicii: True Stories" where you can see how much stress performing put on him and how much he was pressured by his agent/management into doing it, even when he was clearly stating he can't take it anymore.
I find that interesting because I know we have you know things that are our responsibilities but like in his case or in anybody's case when something's going to kill you it's better just to leave just drop everything and get the hell out
Dirt is one of the heaviest albums ever made, period. Its emotional content is so dark, so grueling, so painfully honest that as brilliant as it is, it's an incredibly painful listen. I have thankfully never had a drug problem, but you can feel Layne's anguish and emotional and physical pain through every tortured line. Even as a kid, listening to that album kind of ingrained in me that heavy drugs were absolutely nothing to fuck around with. Well done Finn. As always you bring honesty to the topic, but you do it with a light touch.
It’s interesting that you mentioned Gerard Way briefly because the way that people romanticize artists not only during their very public downfall but also after the fact makes me think of the lyric “and if by his own hand his spirit flies, take his body as a relic to be canonized” which, knowing it’s coming from someone who’s been in the scene for a long time and who’s in recovery, is heartbreaking but very accurate. Gerard and his brother are both very lucky to be alive and not be another example in this video. Also something parallel to this that’s fucked up is when people follow folks who are in recovery but still glorify “funny” clips from when they were…not well. The number of times I see “pumpkin peasy pumpkin pie motherfucker” references for example just feels really weird and macabre.
For real. I feel sort of bad having seen it because it's a really personal audio recording, but online there's a clip of some message Frank send out in 2004 about Gerard having gone missing, with a note referencing an artist who'd died at 27 (same age Gerard was.) It makes you think about how the idolization of stars after their death may incentivize living artists to be the next. The '27 club' is fucked up Edit: Jim Morrison from The Doors
Mcr and fob made me realize that recovery is more important than people give it credit for. That true fans should hope that artists recover. I get inspired by seeing artists I love recover because it gives me hope that I can recover. That it's something I can strive for too.
The celebrity death that deeply affected me the most was Mac Miller, seeing as we were close in age it felt like we were growing up together. Watching him grow out of the immature phase (frat rap) and turn into the artist he became was amazing. Seeing his life cut short still doesn’t sit well with me. RIP Mac Miller
I miss Mac Miller too! I'm a big fan! I wasn't really into his "frat rap" type stuff but I got into more of his of his other stuff. Mainly the things he wrote about life and addiction as well as mental health. He was a really cool and smart laid back guy. Such a shame he had to die so young. He really was just at the beginning of his career. His album 'Circles' was nominated for a Grammy posthumously but it sadly didn't win although he deserved it! R.I.P. Mac!
mac’s death hit me soooo deep too. He was an extremely talented artist and it’s so sad he wasn’t able to overcome his addiction. He spoke so heavily about his substance issues in his music too… so, so sad.
This is exactly how I explain it to people! Like we grew together in my mind through my life’s ups and downs. This will always hurt, he was on his way to real greatness.
Shootashellz death was really sad. I really liked his song "my story". You also missed one thing imo. A really importand one to push your last point to an even worse truth. The moment and artist dies his music spikes in popularity. Most labels even release post mortum albums or songs. They still get the royalty checks it's in the contracts. Many contracts literally have a death clause in it. This means that they actually don't only think about "I need to get him back on stage no matter what" they literally also don't care if the person dies cause it's actually gonna make them money forever if they play it smart. More then if somebody simply would have fell off. Actually way more. So sad truth is. If you got a drug addicted race horse that in some years will be simply impossible to push further and you know it. Might as well push it to glimps of death and then let it die as a legend. Cause people love dead artists..and make money with it. So you take someone, push everything he can manage to give you out of him cause you know he either gonna fall off so I want to make as much as possible as quick as possible, or he dies and with that can't fall off anymore and becomes an icon. You wouldn't mind neither
I remember that Ozzy would snap out of character when fans would tell him that they were dealing with depression or drugs. A drug addict himself, he knew that this was some serious shit not to glorify or dismiss.
This goes back decades, Bon Scott, Jim Morrison...the list goes on. I think you nailed why. Being on stage and touring nonstop requires almost a superhuman personality and what goes up must come down. Just so thankful Dave Gahan came back to life and beat his heroin addiction. To see those that win and the grace and understanding they gain as they get older is encouraging.
I understand not thinking that fans are to blame for all of these, but to think that fans and artist mental health are unrelated is actually baffling. Great video, certainly a conversation worth having.
I'm really glad you're talking about this. Saw Bright Eyes at WWWY last week and it was clear he needs help as he literally had an episode in front of tens of thousands of people. Hope he and others like him get help while they still can
I started listing to Bright Eyes back in the very early 2000's and I was convinced that Conner was going to join the 27 club. He was not doing good back then. But VERY glad that he is still here and doing music and living his life.
i do think about him from time to time, and was happily surprised at the WWWY slot, but am not at all surprised at your appraisal of the performance and his state of mind. I put him in the same "risk category" as Elliot Smith,...and not that its a competition, but there is a whole other level to these two bois and the pain they have channeled in their beautiful art and musings on love, and without mentioning details,..."the kids of today" would be shocked at how "hardcore" Elliot was in life, and his route to death. 🙏rip ES,...and get well soon Bright Eyes💜
I think something that isn’t called out enough is lyrical content in trap. In the same way hair metal glorified alcohol and drug abuse, the same is happening for mixing drugs and alcohol in trap lyrics. A lot of lyrics from the biggest trap artists are about abusing pills/opiods and such and often times, especially kids, start to take interest in this stuff because their favorite artist sings about it. Being in college when trap blew up really only shined a spotlight on this issue as I watched those around me continue to experiment with hard drugs in place of harmless psychedelics. Weed and mushrooms, which are normally not gateway drugs did give way to cocaine and various pills at parties where drinking was also occurring and more often than not someone would have to get narcan from an EMT or cop that was called to the party. There’s a level of drug abuse that is of course masking the way someone really feels but no one speaks enough to the peer pressure some people feel in these environments, especially when everyone around you is cheering you on to do/try it. Every time a trap concert rolled through our campus the amount of people carted off in the meat wagon was excessive, and we had to call an ambulance for someone who later told us they took xanax and drank because they thought that’s what they had to do to fit in with the trap fans. Of course I’m not saying trap is solely to blame for this behavior, but rather the fans who simultaneously cheer on an artist for singing or rapping about substance abuse who then cry when the artist dies of substance abuse are too dense to realize what’s really going on behind the scenes for the artist and the culture.
same thing that happened to Peep happened to Hank Williams Sr. he died in the back seat of his car being driven to a concert, and the driver drove him around for 8 hours after he was dead, no one even checked on him. Hank Williams, also had some of the saddest songs I've ever heard, he was years ahead of his time.
Speaking to this topic, Lingua Ignota was always appreciated for her rawness in dealing with difficult topics in her life like abusive relationships, which resulted in some horribly dark material. You can hear her pain in these songs more strongly than just about any other artist. Recently, Kristen Hayter said she no longer wishes to relive her most painful moments on stage every night and is going to retire all of her current material, and hinted at possibly starting a new music project which will take her in a new direction. I think contrary to what is being discussed here, I've heard a lot of people hearing her music for the first time and saying "wow, I hope she is doing better now" as well as supporting this decision to move forward, which is a nice change of pace. Hopefully this kind of thing will be more common in the future.
Those songs are masterworks, but they're masterworks *because* they're so goddamn overwhelming and oppressive. If she doesn't feel like she can keep performing them over and over, by all means, I completely support her doing something else.
@Travis Shaw. Interesting take. The Evanescence song Lithium, basically is about how Amy is scared to feel better, or at least it’s what is hinted in the lyrics. When you’ve felt low or depressed for such a long time, some might fear to not know how to feel anything else. So as someone who suffers with depression and is a very creative minded person, sometimes I wonder if I start to feel better, will that effect my creativity in some way?.
@@nu-metalfan2654 I relate to this very much, i want to be a professional artist and i try to write songs as much as i can, the most easy topics i can write on are exactly about depression and suicidal thoughts, i don't want to just be known as a broken sad artist but sometimes i feel if i get better that i'll burn out creatively and won't easily find inspiration to write more since a lot of my music revolves around dark topics.
@@Patrick-pc3vq My personal creativity I think comes from my anger and frustration, I’m the type that has a lot to say but don’t know how to say it. For me I’ve always been a little bit of a perfectionist or idealist, I couldn’t play video games because I would always think of how things could’ve been done better. Same with music a little, I look at Mike Patton and think, why can’t more artists be like him?. And movies as well, why can’t more directors be more like Tarantino or Scorsese?. But if you want to not be just a sad lyricist. You could always write about different things. For me personally if I was a songwriter I would also write about my Anxiety and how it effects me. But I would also mix things up with writing about how this world is very hypocritical and has double standards for a lot of things. I would write about my personal struggles of weather I want to be a Christian or not, and how I don’t fully know if I believe in God or not, because it’s something I’ve always been 50/50 on. And even though I suffer with Anxiety and Depression, I still like to have a laugh and would use my sense of humour in my writing as well. So those are things I would do if I was songwriter, and I hope it might make you think of different things to write about. As for me I do worry that if I feel better and less angry and I’m no longer frustrated, will that effect my creativity?. One of my favourite movie directors in David Lynch (Mike Patton is a fan of Lynch as well, which makes a ton of sense) who really is creativity in the the human form. Lynch avoided all forms of therapy because he felt it could effect his creativity in some way. However me personally I’ve had a lot of therapy in my young life so far and not once have I felt it hampered my creativity.
@@nu-metalfan2654 Yeah i also like writing and performing funny and cheery music, but that's what concerns me, i don't really make as much of that music because i largely use my mood in the moment when writing, which i noticed is mostly gloomy and unhappy. Perhaps not giving in to those feelings and writing something more cheerful or energetic could help, sounds like a good advice and thank you for that. I don't usually like to compare artists, sure when comparing your favourite artists to other artists you get a sense of why you like those artists and you appreciate them more but every artist has their own unique style and vision, and everyone appreciates it in their own way, because not every director is like Tarantino is what makes him so special in the first place.
Perez Hilton is a vile human being, attacking people in such a cruel way regardless if they're famous. And you can tell he still doesn't really regret what he says despite his apology today.
As a songwriter who writes a lot about my struggles with addiction I’ve felt that way even though I have a smaller following. I’ve had producers and bookers encourage my addiction in a way and I get stressed when people come up to me after performances and talk all the time.
Chester dying was a earth shattering moment for me. To think of him dying alone the way he did breaks my heart. He was so obviously in pain and that’s why I connected so much with linkin park’s music. I still cry when I hear him live and it makes me think that if he can’t get through it how can I? But somehow we keep going, life goes on and we really are just specks of dust in the universe. RIP Chester.
His death broke my heart into millions of pieces. I can never really forget that. Linkin Park and his voice has really helped me through the hardest times ever. RIP Chester Bennington 💔
I agree with all of this, Finn! You are awesome for talking about this. In the black metal world (which is nowhere close to mainstream), there is the unfortunate example of Pelle "Dead" Ohlin of Mayhem. As a young kid, he basically got beat up so bad that he was rushed to the hospital and declared clinically dead for a short time. This ended up in him having a very intense fascination with dying as he got older, to the point where he would self-harm himself on stage and do all other sorts of distressing stuff that was basically a cry for help. Those assholes in Mayhem never gave a shit about his mental state, even after he did himself in via shotgun at 21 years of age. What's more troubling is that the media over the years would always sensationalize him as this "crazy, insane weirdo" when in reality, he was just a young man with a lot of mental health issues that were--and still are--unaddressed by the wider black metal fandom. His whole death was just reduced to a sick, messed up punchline and it honestly makes me mad thinking about it sometimes.
ur the only other person ive seen mention or actually think about dead like that before, its terribly sad how that's how it is. especially how mayhem's entire story is chalked up to be like an infamous story stapled right in front of your face any time black metal is a topic, when they are/were real live people who were severely messed up
@@squtnik Thank you. There is a mini-documentary here on RU-vid called Ten Years of Mayhem that really does a great job humanizing Dead. I’ll see if I can find it for you. It’s probably the best thing I have ever seen on Mayhem, ever.
I saw this heavily when it came to the band Say Anything. The lead singer Max Bemis struggled heavily with bipolar, depression, etc and while it's arguably true some of their "best" music was when Max was in the trenches, their later stuff is pretty damn good as well. The difference is that Max was able to control his issues, got married, had kids, and the later music reflected that. Fans were always very split about it. They loved their stuff when he was in manic strages of bi polar but now that he wants to write about his wife and kids and being happy the band just "isn't the same" anymore.
One of the things I really, really love about Senses Fail is how Buddy got sober and wrote songs about getting sober, finding love, and coming out. Now he writes songs about wanting to be a good father. All their early songs about alcoholism obviously struck a chord and it was those lyrics that made me a huge fan but as I go out of those darker places it was good to see the same happen for him.
This need more views, this was so well said and even more eye opening. Thank you for this really got me thinking about what some of my favorite artists are going through.
This is why no matter what I will always love Asking Alexandria. Because their music is very self reflective and open hearted. Danny damn near died a few times but when he stepped away, got clean, and came back and wasn’t the angry and hateful drug addicted his music reflected that and “fans” hated that. They hate people who are happy because that’s something they can’t be themselves.
Danny is WAY better as a musician sober, but let's not pretend their sound didn't change. It mature for sure, but many people fell off from that change rather trhan Danny getting sober. I don't think anyone can defend the drunken mess he was. He was garbage live when drinking compared to sober.
Your analysis is spot on as usual. Especially the point on artists beefing and the media egging on these dumb beefs. A shady businessman once said something about media being enemies of the people, and boy on that thought he was right. i think the media makes everyones' lives worse by pulling and playing with our emotions, and celebrities take the worst beating of it all.
Back in 2017 I was a junior. I had been following Lil Peep for about a year and related a lot to his music with the stuff I was going through. Around Halloween, him and his crew where playing a show in New Orleans and me and my friends were going to see them. Apparently he was a real We were all such huge fans. I ended up getting screwed over by those friends a didn’t go, but they got to go on his tour bus after the show. They said Peep was just being a ass. They said he was super moody and just stayed to himself the whole time and didn’t the want to interact with anyone. My friends hated him after that, said he was an POS and he was not genuine. 2 weeks later, Peep passed. I find it funny how people can listen to that music and say they relate then see it right in front of them and then schoff or them. If you really listened to his music you can hear the pain all along. It’s truly sad and sticks with me to this day.
@@lilmagetofficial listening to his music I can tell he was a beautiful soul. Always have been a huge fan since I heard him .Everyone struggles and has there moments but I could never see him being like that all the time.
I used to be such a big Lil peep fan, could always hear how he was struggling and related it to myself, but nowadays its too hard for me to listen to his music.
I listen to Peep every day. I wish he was still with us. He was struggling so hard on that tour and they just kept feeding him drugs and pushing him out on stage.
_“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs._ _There's also a negative side.”_
I'll never forget Kurt's passing. It was my 13th birthday and I was having a party that night to celebrate it. My Dad told me that morning and showed me the news paper clipping. I'll literally never forget the moment in the house I grew up in by the front door. It's one of those moments learning your hero is gone. It crushed all of us and turned into a sort of memorial celebration of Nirvana and Kurt at the party. You have to understand how big they were in 1994. I couldn't understand suicide and mental health back then because I was too young but now I'm 41 and get it, as I am a sufferer myself now of depression. It really hurts thinking about how he literally had songs like "I Hate Myself and Want to Die" but we all just cheered and laughed it off. RIP to all these young gifted individuals. PRMBA always doing great work.
Great video. the fact that successful rockstar/pop-star/musicians live DECADES shorter than the population needs to be addressed. Mental health is a huge part and we ignore their struggles with the idea that it may be their source of inspiration. Having said that I really hope Kanye gets help.
It's not always fans who have a troubled past who identify with these artists and push them over the edge. I think many times fans have an easy, relatively comfortable middle-class life, and they want troubled artists to go into the deep end of the dark side of their minds and tell them what is it like over there, so they can venture vicariously into those territories, because they are not readily available to them or they don't wanna risk their lives exploring that world themselves. It's like "hey, you go do all the crazy party and drugs lifestyle 24/7 and tell me all about it, so I can listen to it during my commute to my cubicle job, and I can at least know what I'm missing out".
There are accounts of people who said AiC's lyrics helped them get sober in the (excellent) book by David DeSola, at least it didn't go over _everyone's_ head. Sadly, there are also stories of people who started because of them, which horrified Layne...
I have this theory that Juice WRLD dedicated his career and music to referencing his death. Think about how many posthumous foreshadowing lyrics he has. It’s very odd to me that it seems not much was done from his support team to stop his addiction, unless he wanted to die you know?
A beautifully made video, and a topic that everyone can understand and see music in a different light. Well done Finn. I’m always here for you and anyone else.
I remember seeing the MTV unplugged with Alice in Chains and just thinking Layne was not in a good place. He looked so small and folded in on himself. That was early 96 I think.
Thanks for addressing this topic, Finn; it's important to raise awareness of this. There's no easy answer, but the only thing we can control for certain is ourselves; what we choose to support and how we choose to respond to things. We tend to be self-centered with our decisions; we only care about what we like, what we want, and how we benefit from something; this goes for the artist, the fans, and the media. The answer is to do the opposite: to be SELF-LESS. Take others into consideration, respond to hate and negativity with love and positivity, support what benefits others and not what hurts them. This isn't easy, but this is what it's gonna take to see a difference.
I really commend you for speaking out about this and your own struggles with addiction and mental health- I really connected with this video bc im a big AIC fan and know all about Layne Staley and really connect with that band's music and Layne's struggle and find it so sad, still. Im a recovered addict and have been for over 10 years but it was hard and looking back it could've been so easy for me to take the easy way out but Thank God - something in me just told me that I didnt wanna throw my life away and go down that path- and let me tell u - i had to get rid of people i loved and really have faith in myself to do it- so it's understandable why so many people slip through the cracks and ill always have understanding and kindness for people who are strruggling...i write and my goal is to help other people through my writing and so hopefully what i went through will b worth something if it can help others. But im touched by your video and its sad to see anyone struggling- bc i know how it feels firsthand- yeah- when u see Layne singing at the unplugged concert ppl are clapping but its a shame bc he's obviously struggling and in pain. Thanks for reminding us to stop and take a deeper look at what and who is around us and what theyre really trying to say- through their music or whatever medium it is. And thanks for saying it in a kind way that we can all relate to...good job.
Dude this channel is so good. So many of your videos are so helpful as an artist just putting their stuff out there, it's comforting hearing someone who cares so much about any artist and the music industry as a whole. Keep advocating for the underdogs my guy!
I think a lot of people see the problem as too distant. In the same way you would never get to live out the fantasy of magically meeting them somewhere and becoming friends you won't be the person that rescues them from addiction. Not supporting the music or not purchasing an album isn't going to be the thing that stops them from self destruction so you just continue to listen and hope for the best.
I've known so many depressed people who think success in their art will lead to happiness and at the same time believe they can't be successful unless they are depressed. They resist attempts to improve their mental health because they believe they will lose all their creativity and most end up suffering without success. Then there are people like Cobain, Cornell, Bennington who are successful but it didn't make them happy and they killed themselves anyways. Of all the Nirvana lyrics that got cited after his suicide, the one that never got mentioned was Francis Farmer Will Have Her Revenge, specifically "I miss the comfort in being sad". The longer people make depression their identity the harder it gets to break out of it.
Soooo important. Highly recommend reading Ian Winwood's book "Bodies: Life and Death in Music" on this matter. Should be a must-read for music industry people and especially for those greedy industry mfs
Dude, this is a great video, and honestly courageous. You outlined the issue so well, and made the important question clear, "Where is the line?" when it comes to fan/artist relations. Art is such an emotional thing, it's easy to get stuck there. You did us all a service by taking a rational look at this trend.
I love the lyric from neon Graves by twenty one pilots where he is talking about celebrity suicide and then at the end he says “ find your grandparents or someone at age pay some respects to the path that they paved to life they were dedicated now THAT should be celebrated.”
Finn probably remembers this, but there was a 90s song called Misery by Soul Asylum that was critical of the music business and the fan’s gross attachment for consuming depressing/negative music. I was a pre-teen at the time it came out, but a lot of that social commentary went over my head back then.
The other night I was watching a live stream of one of the most famous artists here in Argentina, who has a very serious cocaine addiction and a very public one as well. He was being interviewed by a fan who was telling him what people were saying in the chat section and basically the message was "we would rather not see you play shows for a year if that means you're taking care of yourself and your mental health", and I thought that was beautiful :)
I'm glad you're talking about this it's hard to differentiate between an artist sharing how he/she felt at a time in their life, and what they're currently going through
One more light is a solid pop album. While it’s not necessarily what I expected or wanted from linkin park it still has that pure heart in the lyrics and is very good sonically. It wasn’t until I listened to it back to back with the neon trees album pop psychology that I looked at it differently. I’ve realized that when an artist changes direction you need to look at it as if you were listening to a new artist, all former expectations and biases thrown away, first to really get a grasp on the quality of the music.
Don't let the haters get to you Finn, that shortsighted bullshit should not get to you. You seem like a very cool human being to me, love your stuff man!
It makes me so happy that Ruby and $crim got sober. For sure I thought we were gonna lose them the same way we lost peep and everyone. It was amazing to get to see them live and hear $crim's speech about getting sober at Grey Day.
To me I always believed in the fact there's more 'yes' men who are there to keep the focus of the artist/performer on 1000mph of self destruction vrs people who can be voices of reason that are better at helping them through difficult decisions.
Such an important topic. Thank you for paying attention to all this artists. We all have our demons which we have to fight. We can all make it. Stay strong people 💪
And nobody talks about how the culture is anti- uplifting (pop) music. Listening to sad, angry music too much becomes a self fulfilling prophecy . I’ve been listening to 90s house music lately because it’s positive the mind and soul. I hope there is a culture shift towards empowerment music, Look for example what the spice girls did for kids, strong empowering messages in music are good for people
This was addressed in the kid cudi documentary. Fans unintentionally place pressure on kid cudi for saving their life. I can only imagine what these artists go through
There's also this attitude of crapping on people for changing and getting sober. Like it or not, Ivan Moody makes music a lot of people love, and the gatekeepers may sh*t on ffdp but he's on of the few guys, other than Ronnie Radke, who's been very vocal about their sobriety journey. That's why I do appreciate your videos, even when you're not a fan, you still look at things to understand why they're enjoyed (despite the obvious disdain for rednecks)
The "True Stories" documentary on Avicii (1:00) from 2017, is a brilliant example of said industry enabling slowly destroying a man's mental health. At the end of the day, Tim was but a very humble and introverted guy who loved and wanted to just make music, not cut out for the DJ touring culture and lifestyle... 🦋
THIS is why whenever anyone glamorizes drugs and alcohol it instantly furiates me like they usually say "yo i got so fucked up lat night i dont even remember what happened" or "i was so lit i stayed up for 2 days straight." it just....fucking saddens me honestly.
Kurt definitely didn't shoot himself. Not to get too aluminum foil hat wearing, but its been proven it wouldnt have been possible given the weapon that was used and the placement of his body. Not to mention the fact he was actually doing better and working on getting clean and teying to be good for his daughter. We all know who killed him but nothing is being done about it.
This is a subject that really needs to be brought up more often. In the UK , Amy Winehouse’s self destruction was probably the most obvious example with what seemed like daily tabloid coverage. Another one not mentioned here would be both Michael Hutchence and Paula Yates, both being subjected to intense tabloid harassment before their respective deaths. I feel like now the combination of clickbait and mob culture online and the toxicity of shaming/cancelling is a new iteration of that. While I don’t see it resulting in suicide or overdose (and have limited sympathy), I can’t shake the feeling that with Kanye we are watching another public meltdown and potential tragedy play out right now.
I think the statement Mac once said about being on social media summed it up well for a lot of artists. They can wake up and have people say they are great and immediately follow it with everyone who says they suck. I can only imagine the toll that takes on someone so famous with so many problems
I'm a huge Chris Cornell fan, his music has always meant a lot to me and he inspired me to sing. I woke up on my 23rd birthday to the news that he committed suicide. It shattered my heart, more so because I finally got to see him live a year prior. It's clear he struggled with depression for years, but he seemed so stable and happy in his last few years. It goes to show that depression isn't a temporary thing. I can only imagine what constantly being in the spotlight does to affect that for someone.
Really great video, I appreciate all the work and research you put into this, you made some great points! I grew up on My Chemical Romance and I'm not gonna lie they got me through some dark times, but also sometimes I wondered if I was wallowing too much in those dark times with that music. However, it does help to know you are not the only one having dark thoughts, but we need to support artists when they are trying to get better and make some other music. It is really damaging to expect them to make dark depressing music for the rest of their lives! I remember when My Chemical Romance came out with the Killjoys album, after the Black Parade, and at the time all my friends, and even me sadly, clowned the album for being lighter in tone, colorful and upbeat. We wanted a sequel to The Black Parade. We didn't want to hear any positivity or happy sounding music from them, which is really sad looking back! They were grown men with wives and children at that point, they can't stay in a sad place singing about death forever. And now I'm so glad that they didn't!
I will admit that the immortalisation of Kurt Cobain does leave some bad taste. Kurt was very self defeating of himself, he didn’t think much of himself. He didn’t like being put on a pedestal. I’ve seen and heard a lot of Kurt’s interviews and he didn’t want anything to do with being labelled “the voice of a generation”, “leader of the Grunge scene”. Kurt wanted nothing to do with any of that, all he wanted to do was play music with his friends and have fun. Kurt Cobain basically wanted the career Buzz and The Melvins had, just a band that only music lovers would know and mostly just played small shows. I think if Kurt would’ve been alive to see a lot of the immortalisation of himself, I think he would’ve rolled his eyes to a lot of it.
Great video. There is only one thing I would like to add: people really underestimate how exhausting (physically and mentally) life on the road is. These artists are living in a tourbus for three quarters of the year, just imagine what that does to your mental health.
I genuinely really, really enjoy your videos Finn. I think 99% of the time you’re on the right side of things - especially with this video. You seem to be good, positive dude and you put that out into the universe at every opportunity. But, and I’m so sorry that there’s a but, I do have to point out the irony of letting Draft Kings sponsor a video about mental health. There’s just so few situations that gambling is healthy for people.
@@ThePunkRockMBA Doesn’t that sort imply that while many mental health disorders can be considered diseases and outside the control of a person, that gambling, alcoholism, and eating disorders aren’t diseases? Armchair, guy that took psych 101, time: I think they they are inherently tied - even if you don’t want to call them a disease. Someone that has a gambling or drinking problem is almost always going to exhibit some other disorder. Why is sad guy worth being protected and cared for, but not fat guy? But I think I get what you’re saying - it’s a slippery slope. I have a member of my family that would like “being kind of lazy”recognized by the DSM, just so the stigma of “being kind of lazy” is off of their shoulders. Again, great content. Thanks for the response. You’re a good dude and thanks for what you do. Congrats on the kid! I don’t know anything about kids, but i think you’ll be a great dad.
I’ve always thought of Dirt as having multiple meanings. 1. Heroin like you said. 2. Feeling like dirt. 3. Being covered in dirt in a grave and 4. Dirt being a synonym of Grunge.
Don't forget that after, say, 7-8 years of career, generational shift happens. This is one thing that imho looks through the holes of Linkin Park story - musicians either grow up and make more mature music, losing young public, or they adapt and try something new, losing old fans, or they try to stick to the same old same old and just do a copycat material, slowly decaying in nowhere. Either way, after hitting a peak, there's always a heartbreaking things and words fans say, and a struggle to get some attention. Shows go shit, sales are dropping, and if your band was not platinum level - you're basically fucked. And if you don't have money, and not able to do anything except play old songs of yours - what career choices do you have? This is really tough life, and it's only the tip of the iceberg. No wonder those artists just end it.
Seeing the permanent damage done to some of those who have lived through such horrible addictions can be just as heartbreaking. One of my favorite artists, Shane MacGowan, is a perfect example of this. I wish him and all those who have going or have been through addiction health and happiness even if the art suffers.💜
I think that Club 27 exists just because we're all scared our favourite artist became old and dissapoint us in some way (start making bad music, bad political statements, bad deeds, everything bad and boring). And there's lot ageism about aging artists. With all that Grace Slick's statements like 'All rock-and-rollers over the age of 50 look stupid and should retire'. But c'mon - not every rocker over the age 50 look like that and I still glad to see some aged artists in a good form. And all that stereotypes about 'true rock/rap/whatever' is a young men business - it's a very toxic thing that generates all that Club 27 thing. Because all who died young never disappoint anyone.
Great video, really makes you wanna think about it more. I do remember the day when Chester's (r.i.p. legend) dead came on the news. I did notice how he was so much more open in interviews about his depressions and voices inside of his head the last year or so. Then when they came to Amsterdam in 2017 I also thought by myself like: wow, he is really giving it all again also with his screams after some time of holding it back a bit. Thinking about it now I think he maybe allready had it all set in his mind for some time he wanted to go. With the loss of Chris Cornell, all the critics they got with the new album etc. it got to much this time. Could the band members and family maybe see it coming? I think so maybe, but he could also be the funny happy guy the next day. Like there was a video of him the evening before, playing with his kids. Despression is such an evil decease. Also my last thing about it. With the tribute concert for Chester it also bothered me a lot that AMG (the sponsor at the time for LP) had to be in every shot and every thank you speech. I couldn't get my head around it that such companies then even only think about the money....
greg sage did it right. i always wondered, why he would go to such lengths, basically sabotaging his own career. but he did absolutely the right thing, by avoiding the media as best as he could and eventually moving to the desert, barely being heard of ever again.
I feel that this is a problem because in the alternative music scene, struggle is an asset because struggle is inextricably intertwined with the “purity” culture in the scene. (Gonna rip off other commenters with this sentence) if you die for your struggle, you’re seen as an almost martyr, you died instead of “selling out” and making “inferior” music because the “struggle” is gone. This is similar to something you brought up in an earlier discussion where people would rather show off their open wounds, instead of their scars. Thanks for listening to my TedTalk
It's fucked up to think your own fans would rather see you dead than successful, i mean the old music is always here to be listened to so i don't understand why the toxic mindset.
These fan dynamics are what those in the streaming and youtube space call para-social relationships where fans feel like they can somehow connect with the artist through their music. Sometimes to the point where you see some fans show up at artists homes.
The crazy thing that I've actually abserved, is young kids getting into drugs and trying their hardest to have hardhsips in their lives jsut so they can have that "tragic backstory" and make tiktoks that say "you guys don't understand me" or "this music means more to me". I grew up in suburbia and hung out with my punk friends who were just as angry about everything as I was. Then when emo took over, 90% of my middle class/rich kid population all started listening to these bands and artist who sang about how hard their lives were and how drugs helped them out of it, before making it worse. AND THEN THE EMO KIDS GOT INTO DRUGS !! IT's a double edged sword where the artist should express themselves, but labels seem hellbent on glorifying violence, drug use, and poor mental health because it makes beautiful art, and tons of money. On top of that, they give 18 year olds millions of dollars with no help or financial advisor and everyone's surprised when they OD?! What else is a kid going to do when the entire industry is helping you kill yourself Side note: with Peep, there's a documentary about him where everyone around him kept asking for money and stuff and he gave it waway. His manager went to find him in the warehouse they were all living at and he was crying in the closet while randos were sleeping and doing drugs on his bed
Aaron Carter surpass the 27 club. Unfortunately, also passed away at 34. His sister Leslie passed away at 25. Kurt Cobain at 27, Amy Winehouse at 27, etc. Why them tho? They didn't deserve to pass away at a young age tragically. It sucks how the music showbiz ruins the most talented young artists/musicians.
