Apple should have been smart enough to just buy the company. Buy the company you can have all the patents and employees. This is a bad look to hire the employees and steal the proprietary property with no agreement or compensation. This will also mean a huge lawsuit.
Very good point. What would the company have cost Apple? $2 billion? That's pocket change for them. Now, they're screwed. And as someone who literally bought an Ultra2 on the final day they were selling them in Apple stores, I don't want Apple to push a fix that nixes a feature I originally paid for. Apple would have a gigantic class action lawsuit on their hands if they took away functionality people paid for, so I don't see that happening.
That is the obvious answer, but you have to understand with companies the goal is not to spend as much money as possible. And most companies try to find loopholes to bypass certain things that they wanna accomplish.
FYI, a patent in the U.S. is required, by law, to list the names of the inventors. If the list of inventors is incorrect, the patent can be invalidated. Apple really didn't have a choice to list the inventors if they invented material in the Apple patent whether or not they were hired from the previous company.
In my opinion, the most likely outcome is that they settle out of court, with Apple paying Masimo a huge bag of money and/or a certain royalty amount per unit sold.
The reason it's in court in the first place is that's what Masimo wanted in the first place......but they hired their employee's and stole the technology anyway so they wouldn't have to pay a cent.
Remember when people said Microsoft were the bad guys for abusing their market position against its competitors, while Apple was the "moral high ground"?
they stole life saving heart monitor technology, technology that has actively improved the lives is thousands of people. why are you guys bitching? this is the one instance of capitalist theft that BENEFITS the public
The blood oxygen sensor saved my dads life. We went on a ski holiday and at cruise altitude on the plane his blood oxygen according to the Apple Watch was around 80-83% multiple times while the rest of us were at around 98% according to it. His face went slightly blue, at 3000meters at the top of the slopes and his oxygen was again 80%. We got it checked out and his heart had a life threatening hole in it. He then got a titanium plate inserted inside his heart so it would stop the blood flowing the wrong way like it was. So the Apple Watch blood oxygen sensor possibly saved his life.
Love to see lives saved by tech like this. 👍 The feeling of your blood oxy saturation dropping is hard to understand if you haven’t been there. Not fun times.
While Titanium is not a noble metal , it is resistant to corrosion and is biocompatible with the body( meaning the body will not see it as a foreign body and try to reject it)
That's the thing, it's not the "Apple's" technology. Your dad was, in fact, saved by an invention that's made by another company apple stole from. You should be grateful for them for putting in money and effort to make that technology.
And disabling it could put people into a high risk if they can't check it due to it being disabled by Apple for stealing patents. This is where I am glad other Smartwatch brands can integrate on my Android devices and if they have a patent issue, I just switch brands for not losing the functionality
In the post Covid era and with the increase in sleep apnea, this is an incredibly useful feature. Also, when tested against pulse oximeters, it's actually pretty close. That's really not a surprise given that Masimo technology is used in many of the hospital's SpO2 patient care devices. That being said, it's still pretty sleazy of Apple to take this route when they had more than enough money to purchase rights, or even the company that owned the patent for this tech. Their stock has been down about 20% over the last year, so it was probably a bargain.
Apple does this ALL the time. BUT to be fair, this is much more common than one can imagine. Large companies poach employees from their competitors to gain some sort of advantage very often. This happens in the electronics industries, car industries etc. The big difference here is that Apple approached this company and left a paper trail before going behind their back to get their tech illegitimately. It's one thing to offer some essential employees a higher pay to gain their "expertise" and a whole other thing to literally copy the same tech simply to circumvent sharing the profits.
Steve Jobs got hit with anti-trust violations when he cajoled everyone to NOT poach each others employees. Apple has been known to quarantine employees from each other even when they are working on the same project, so that, if they do get poached, they don't know the total picture (or adjoining pieces of the picture) for the project's goals/objectives. The anti-trust violation was that the agreement suppressed wages and marketability of engineers in the computer industry.
@@scubasausage apple is closer to trillion dollars company they have robbed, strong armed so many small businesses, if one fights back they should gouge them for a hefty amount so they change the business practices
@@yyny0 Ive done a bit of research on this. The original court case against Apple was thrown out. But Apple still have a court case against Masimo. Masimo just went and got an import ban at the ITC. But if Apples case is successful then Masimo will need to pay Apple for lost sales and apparently that case is 50:50. As for Apple paying employees, they were paid more than what Masimo paid them but not millions each. Apple spent millions to employ the team. This is quite normal in this industry and there are no questions on the bulk of Apple employees. This also all happened prior to Masimo filing their patent. The case rests on one man and his apparent knowledge given to Apple before Apple terminated his contract. Its an alarmingly thin case that smells like Masimo paid someone at the ITC to push the motion. And of course the media wants to capitalise on the irrational hatred people have for Apple so they leave out a lot of details.
SPO2 is critical for many people with some health issues (asthma, covid, allergies) and wrist watches use many algorithms to measure these levels accurately. Plus the location, weather conditions and many other data points help develop detect risks and notify timely. It's a great feature to have
As someone who has received a double lung transplant, the O2 sensor was a major reason to move to the Apple Watch for me. It seems to be within about 2% accurate, but that is more than enough to warrant further testing if low. Sad news…
I got the Apple Watch series 9 just for the blood oxygen sensor and ECG. Just so I have a better understanding of my health. Not like I trust the sensor 100%, it just gives me an idea of my health. Apple intentionally screws up not just on a company level but also a customer level. Reminds me of the movie Anti-trust (2001) instead of MS it's Apple.
The blood oxygen feature is one of the main reasons I got an Apple Watch. It's close to on-par with standalone pulse oximeters. I'm sure it's not that important to healthy people, but is essential to many with chronic illness, especially as an always-on companion device. Together with Heart Rate, AFib detection, etc, it's a game-changer for health monitoring. Changes in heart rate, blood pressure, and oxygen might only be noticeable when hiking or exercising if you're healthy, but just being awake or walking up one flight of stairs might trigger big changes if you have any number of chronic conditions millions of people live with every day, that aren't the result of unhealthy choices. So yes, it is important and essential.
I agree with you this is the reason I bought the série 9…to monitor some of my health issues. I ordered it yesterday I didn’t know about the ban… I really hope I get the sensor on my watch and that somehow Apple doesn’t have to inactivate it 🤞🏽🤞🏽
I work at a hospital and have tested my Apple watch ultra against the medical grade sensors we have there and the watch was most of the time spot on or off by one percent, so decent. If you have a really low blood oxygen result you would need a A-Puncture (a blood sample taken from an artery) to get a completely accurate result.
We have used the Samsung spo2 meter in galaxy phones for years now and it has saved my son's life numerous times. Matches exactly to the measurements from ambulances we have called at the time. Brittle asthma is so suddenly a problem that any indicators help, over and above or own judgement of course, never instead of that
You must be comparing to the devices that clip on to the finger, invented decades ago and produced by a company called Nellcor. These patents are likely expired now, and this is a very important piece of information to this Apple lawsuit. It may be that one part of Apple's technology is based on this and hence, can no longer be protected by patent. This may give Apple a window of opportunity to design around Massimo's patent, or even show that the latter is invalid.
The blood oxygen monitor is very useful for people who may not know whether they have sleep apnea, it shows a dramatic drop at those times they stop breathing, no technology is perfect, but just because you don’t think a piece of technology is important or medically precise doesn’t mean it isn’t extremely useful. Think outside of the box, don’t lock yourself inside it!
@@Leggirit was a game changer for me and helped me get my central sleep apnea diagnosis. Showing the trend of drastic drops during those nighttime periodic checks got me right through to the more intensive and accurate testing (which NHS is stingy with) which found I have a very small amount of obstructive events but quite severe central sleep apnea.
I believe the blood oxygen option is wonderful. Thanks to that I was able to know that my Blood Oxygen would drop when I sleep and my doctors were able to determine that I have sleep amnia.
one annoying thing about this group is their tendency to make blanket assumptions on things they’re absolutely clueless about like the usefulness of a blood oxygen sensor. it’s been several times now they’ve said “this isn’t useful or needed” or a similar remark because it’s something they don’t use or care about. it just takes a small amount of critical thinking to understand that there are people out there who aren’t perfectly healthy 30 somethings that would probably rely on this health tech and the convenience of it all being in one device. s/o david tho for actually tryna bring some logic into the discussion
Literally. I interned at a cardiac clinic for the elderly, and pretty much all of them had a watch with a oximeter, and it was a requirement for us to take down their readings which would be reported to their medical aids to track their progress to manage premiums etc.
I mean what the heck is a guy wearing a ugly Christmas sweater on a tech podcast timidly speaking and self consciously looking at others for approval when talking about his opinion about the matter, would know anything about an importance of an oximeter?
Even as someone that uses the blood oxygen sensor, overall, it's not that important to the product. It may be an important feature for a subset of users, but to the majority of users, it's a nice to have, not a need to have.
Actually so true lives have been saved because of the ECG blood 🩸 oxygen and heart rate and in my opinion this group of individuals on you tube I don’t follow
The low blood oxygen indication on my Apple Watch at night helped point toward the fact I had sleep apnea. I know so many people who have used this feature to help diagnose various medical conditions. It may not be the most accurate, but is a great indicator of something that might be underlying that can be further investigated by a medical practitioner. So in short, it would definitely be a loss to not have that feature!
Yup, me too. When I went to the sleep apnea clinic after noting that my blood oxygen had been dropping at night I said to the doctor that I wasn't sure how accurate it was on the watch he told me that they have found it to be incredibly accurate within about 1-2%. He also told me that since the Apple Watch with O2 came out more people had been coming in to be assessed for apnea and more people are getting treatment. My results were that my oxygen was dropping at night (obstructive sleep apnea) but it had to drop more than 5 times a night for my insurance company to allow treatment so as of now I am untreated.
I believe the blood oxygen option is wonderful. Thanks to that I was able to know that my Blood Oxygen would drop when I sleep and my doctors were able to determine that I have sleep amnia.
So, as long as it is Apple, nobody cares about patent infringement and Apple can steal from others right? The US is sending a dangerous message to the world, first by Obama and then by the court....
Apple may consider to disable the Blood Oxygen sensor on the Apple Watch but question is how is Apple going to resolve this issue at the consumer end, as to be fair we as consumers have paid a premium for this feature.
Apple played dirty, and now they've got to pay. The biggest damage here is to the reputation of Apple. They can handily pay any settlement, judgement, hardware change etc, but this is an ugly hit to their reputation.
is it just Apple, do many companies do this to each other? Sort of like a pissing contest between lawyers. What I’ve seen is somebody wins a payout and the company does nothing, so you go back to court again. So this court stuff just happens a lot between companies just part of the cost of doing business. (screw the little people).
The O2 sensor was a significant factor for me in purchasing an Apple Watch after she experienced a lung blood clot earlier this year (still in our 30’s). Even having “something” to be able to check has been helpful in the subsequent months.
Crazy how Apple hired their employees and then published patents under one of their names. The blood oxygen sensor seemed like a cool feature, but I agree with the discussion about its actual importance
For me, I have an Apple Watch Ultra (I'm in the Military) and I routinely use the watch to its fullest, and I bought it to get the most out of the platform. But I've traded features in doing so from GPS accuracy to the terrible battery life of the Watch compared to its Garmin counterparts, and if they have to also get rid of oxygen sensor, I'm just going to trade it in/sell it because at this point, I'm trading so much for the sake of the ecosystem on an expensive watch. The cons are starting to outweigh the pros, and the Apple Watch just isn't as unrivaled as it once was, and apple being apple is just becoming tiresome.
To think all they actually had to do was buy a component from a company, while they were buying other components from other suppliers. Instead they get sued, and get some press showing them doing this.
@@colinmartin9797news flash every company is bad and does whatever they can to maximize profits. This company is selling a crapper watch for more than Apple Watch. You think they care about people? No they want profits just like whole health care industry. Doesn’t cost 100,000 plus to go to hospital. They charge 3k for bed sheets
The problem is that every person on the internet protects the biggest companies in the world from being able to be held liable. Stop stealing other people’s data and products while the apples community is trying to protect this big companie that doesn’t care about you only your money.
As someone with sleep apnea the oxygen level is informative. When I had a bad head cold and could not wear my cpap mask, the oxygen level definitely trended well into the low 80%’s which is what I would expect because totally untreated I fall into the 70%’s. However, if I did not have sleep apnea, I would agree the oxygen level is not overly useful for me.
When your computer is idle, or when you're only doing light work, you can run the software "folding home" in the background, which uses the computer's CPU and Graphics Card to help scientists calculate complex data sets used for medical research aiming to cure diseases like cancer.
I'm exactly the same. Part of me discovering I had sleep apnea and evidence to convince my doctor was a high 70s blood ox level. I have a Garmin watch but the principal is the same. My trends were really down when I sleep.
Not Apple but I remember talking to a guy who worked for a robotics company where Amazon used their services. Amazon would later hire engineers over from his company and make their own copy of their product. Eventually stopping usage of their services and stealing all their customers. Just monopoly things.
Given how long this lawsuit has been dragging out, it actually make a lot of sense that both Series 9 and Ultra 2 were such bummers with the lack of any meaningful hardware updates.
@@_purge9488 Not really. The lawsuit began way before this year´s release. Therefore it stands to reason that Apple prepared for this outcome by releasing a product that would not sell that well anyway, perhaps even making fewer units than usual, in preparation for a potential ban. It is just a theory but it would not surprise me, given that Apple is a company that has a good track record of thinking ahead.
No different than the Samsung watches which didn't change much, Apple still leads the pack, they probably don't feel the need to update much, kind of like the Z Fold 5 this year.
My big concern is that they will stop supporting the feature going forward, making older watches obsolete more quickly than normal. Good idea to hold off buying any version for now, unless there is a steep discount.
On the contrary, my Applewatch series 5 has Force Touch that is useless now that it’s been discontinued on subsequent watches. Likely that if they have to remove the light sensor, watches that have it won’t have software to support using it.
@@martonistvan1746 Companies use slave and child labor. Does not mean it's normal. Plus Apple products with the same amount of Storage and or RAM cost twice as much for less Futures.
9 месяцев назад
@@vinny9152True but let's not kid ourselves, they're not that companies only customer
This inflection issue is literally the SOLE reason why I do not watch this channel. My ears just can’t take it either. I’m so glad I’m not the only one.
Oh man, it makes me reflect on my listening habits when I realize these guys are musing about something they know nothing about and are leaving listeners with false information. I worry that this happens a lot, but I only realize it with topics I'm deeply familiar with. The financials discussed at 11:52 are grouped as "Wearables, Home and Accessories" and include: "Wearables includes smartwatches and wireless headphones. The Company’s line of smartwatches, based on its watchOS operating system, includes Apple Watch Ultra 2, Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch SE. The Company’s line of wireless headphones includes AirPods, AirPods Pro, AirPods Max and Beats products. Home includes Apple TV, the Company’s media streaming and gaming device based on its tvOS operating system, and HomePod and HomePod mini , high-fidelity wireless smart speakers. Accessories includes Apple-branded and third-party accessories."
This was happening years ago with other platforms (USA only) do to USDA,etc regulations. Is it really a copyright thing or something 🤔 else like a conspiracy by Definition? Specifically the USA because this doesn't happen overseas.
I updated and use my O2 many times a day. As an asthmatic with leftover covid crap in my lungs, having that constantly available on something I’m already wearing was very helpful. Especially after my months of respiratory therapy to make sure I’m keeping up on that work. I measured it against the sensors the hospital was using to see how accurate it was. It was spot on every time (ideal conditions and on my light skinned untattooed wrist). I was able to get my ultra 2 in November and we just ordered my wife’s upgrade to one with an O2 sensor before they were no longer available. It was a deciding feature for the upgrades.
It is one of my most used features in the galaxy watch. Blood oxygen levels is pretty important and many people check it in their smartwatches quite a bit. The key thing is a smartwatch main function these days is to keep track of your health. When a person gets a smartwatch it doesn’t just check for one feature but rather the overall experience and features it provides. And usually you pick the smartwatch that is most useful for you. Perhaps you guys don’t know it but blood oxygen levels is as important as checking your heart rate . Of course there are many other sensors that could be as useful if not more that Apple can include but blood oxygen level is a really important one indeed.
Why is everyone so shocked that apple is engaging in this type of behavior, they been doing this for a while, only this time they couldn't bribe their way out of this one.
@@jaysbakes37 Honestly, a lot of companies in the tech space sue each other for patent infringement to the point of it being ridiculous. Also, people can argue the ethics of it but as an employee, if a company wants to pay me millions for my invention more than the current company, I will absolutely do it. Go where your value is. Why would you stay at a company paying you less? I don't think I will ever be on a company's side.
Apple should bite the bullet and settle for sake of their brand image after getting finally caught in ever-shady poaching and gathering intel from ex-employees of their target companies. Sure, it’s going to cost them a pretty penny, but they should make it right for Masimo and possibly make the O2 sensor legit and hopefully it can carry both companies forward to a better place than in a litigation hell.
Apple cries to the US government😭😭: Samsung says we are stealing its innovations in the iPhone 4 The US government: Vetoooo Apple cries to the US government😭😭: Huawei outsells us and will overthrow us The US government: Vetooo Band Huawei This is not fair competition.. Then Apple's sheep come and say that Apple is the best company in the history of the world! Hahaha by stealing Jobs stole the first computer system from another company and made the Mac ---------- I think this is the American culture They are used to taking everything by bullying Any country that has oil, gold or any natural minerals The American government: It's time for freedom for you guys
We joke about the blood oxygen sensor as a COVID test, but it’s how I knew I had it. I’d just gotten a booster like a week or two prior and was working from home and noticed my breathing was kinda labored. Nothing crazy, but like you just went up some steps and I was just sitting there sending emails. Ran the blood oxygen, saw it was in like the mid 90s, so I got the test and found out I did have COVID. It was a really mild case (cause the vaccine works), so if I had just forgot about the breathing thing after a bit I could have never gotten tested and then not stay home and mask around the people I live with. So I consider that a pretty useful feature.
This wasn’t that? This video is very pro Apple and almost dismissive of the other companies claims. Discussing how Apple should circumvent the lawsuit by disabling the sensor.. or suggesting that the sensor is pointless anyway, nobody would notice it’s gone, it’s not accurate anyway, etc etc
Problem is as much as they can. Do they really can’t do much. Apple can just do a different pattern and get around this. They just can’t sell those versions of the watch anymore but no they can get around it because other companies have the same thing in their watch. Samsung has it and a lot of other watches too so companies can’t just go after one they would have to go after every single watch out there and Apple still has enough money to do pretty much anything they want
As someone whose father suddenly died at 44 of a heart attack, and my father’s father suddenly dying at 54, this is disappointing news. I’ve been using Apple Watches to try and stay ahead of me repeating history as like an emergency alarm if something is wrong before I can feel it. I’ve been waiting for Apple to develop some kind of technology where they can monitor blood pressure and then the Apple Watch would’ve been golden. Being able to track heart rate, irregular heart beats, O2 levels, and blood pressure would be perfect for me. Don’t get me wrong Apple was clearly scummy here and deserves the ban, they need to either suck it up and settle or develop a new technology, not just abandon the 02 sensor.
I think something interesting here, you all didn’t want to discuss this because you didn’t think apple would have to correct Since when does that make it not worth discussing? You all should have not only discussed this, but covered it in a way where you are advocating for apple to not be able to do this Not covering corporate fraud and theft because of your bias is not cool, and does a disservice to viewers
.... kinda, not really? Only in patients that were very, very sick. And in those situations, it is CRITICAL to emphasize that the apple watch is NOT A MEDICAL DEVICE and the readings from the wrist are not going to be very accurate or reliable. There's a reason medical pulse oximeters go on a finger, toe or earlobe. And never the wrist
My Samsung told me I had low oxygen when sleeping after having for a month or so. Now I have a apnea diagnosis. My Swedish doctor did not wait when I asked what to do about it.
This is really an unexpected move from Apple. It seems that no tech giant is immune to legal challenges. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
I work closely with Massimo as a biomedical engineer. They are an enormous company with a wide variety of products. Most vitals carts in hospitals are Phillips or Massimo. Surprised to hear this.
Damn Apple, that is one evil nasty nasty move you played. I cant fucking stand TIm Cook. Hopefully they would have to pay out massive amounts to those they steal from.
I'm late seeing this but the O2 sensor is what made me upgrade. After Summer of 22 when I had to visit the ER when my o2 was at 82 I decided to get the series 8. I was then diagnosed with post covid reactive airway disease. Knowing I can check if I feel off is important to me. It might not be the most accurate reading but its gives me an idea and an alert if I get too low.
remember that Apple won"t pay any royalties because if they do, it will set a precedent for other compagnie to do the same in the future, it will be much easier. They also try to buy them in the early days, that did not work.
Bizarre that companies this large that print money don't just do these things correctly. They are a huge target due to that money so it's not like they're going to get away with it.
It's definitely crazy that Apple poached all these employees, but it isn't uncommon--or a mistake on Apple's part--to name said employees in a patent application. A requirement for the application is proper inventorship, which requires the applicant(s) to be the actual inventor(s). The applicant(s) would then assign those patent rights to their employer.
THE REAL DEAL; May 2024 New Apple watches bought mid Jan 2024 will/have had their oxygen sensors disabled until 2028 when a lawsuit expires. I bought a Apple 9 not knowing this. Reviewers are saying nothing about this which is suspicious. Sponsors or reviewers ?
I am curious as to why you all think that the sensors are not accurate? According to the doctors I have seen they are incredibly accurate - both my electrocardiologist (for the ECG feature, he recommended I get an apple watch) and the doctor from the sleep study clinic who said that the apple watch was accurate within 1-2%...I trust the experts in these conditions rather than a generalist like Dr. Mike. Sleep apnea is a big deal if bad enough and left untreated and can lead to other health conditions.
So how could Apple file the patent if it was already covered by another company. Isn’t that the responsibility of the Patent Office to ensure it isn’t duplicated or did Apple just some other aspect of technology from the other company?
What happens to those who already bought these watches? What’s the future like ? Is apple going to release an update to disable it on these impacted watches? Assuming if apple losses the case to Masimo
I think for ppl like me whose husband bought the series9 49mm ultra 2 for me and they delete the update, it may be a problem for consumers who already have them. Hummmm would love to see the outcome. Honestly I think apple will make it right! They’re no dummies. And when they come back I’m sure it’ll fly off the shelves.
