The Art of Deception - An AoE2 Breakdown 

One of the more unique uploads I’ve had, really felt this was interesting. What did you think? Did the talking go too far? Was it fair play? Let me know!

"When you are far, appear as if you are near." St4rk really embodied that when he was 1000 miles away during that final attack. 😂

Playing mind games is a fun strategy. "I'm gonna drush you now" is just a fun little way to spice up the game. People always have the option to ignore false information and just play on like the chat box wasn't there. It would be different if St4rk taunted Capoch, kicking him while he was down. That didn't happen though. Capoch started playing a bit lax after seeing St4rk say; "I'm weak, you have the game!" which when you think about it seems quite silly to fall for.

As someone who started watching this content today, the fact that "wololo'd" appears to still be relevant slang is fantastic.

Great idea to make these kinds of videos. I think concentrating or condensing the message you want to bring across more would make it even stronger. You probably could have made a video of about 10 minutes rather than 34 with the exact same amount of info. And I can imagine a 10 minute video is more accessible than a 34 minutes one.

I very rarely comment on RU-vid, but I had to comment this time. I love T90's content, and this series sounds amazing, please keep going. Sun Tzu cannot be wrong. At war time (and so are the war games!), there are double-sided spies and messengers carrying deceiving information all the time. So this is part of the war/game and has nothing to do with good sportsmanship. If we'd like to discuss good sportsmanship, we should ask Capoch's comment about getting a direct invitation to RBW5 tournament (to replace a missing player) ahead of Kasva and Barles, despite he ended behind them in the qualifiers. In my view, a player should get a direct invitation either in the first place or never (so qualifier results are followed accordingly). I wish Capoch offered the invitation to Kasva/Barles or offered a re-match to Kasva/Barles to prove he deserves the invitation, to show real sportsmanship... P.S.: Magyars guy deserves a mention in this series!

Good stuff, could cut down commentary a little but overall fun to watch

Thank you T90

Amazing. Nice work!!!!!

Being able to devise a strategy for a specific opponent like how St4rk did is one of the reasons I don't love Hidden Cup. It removes that portion of preparedness.

The irony here is that Capoch saying "That's bad sportsmanship. I will get admin win. Sorry :(" is a perfect example of *actual* bad sportsmanship. It's commonly referred to as 'rule sharking'.

Please do more of these. Sun Tzu has a lot more wisdoms to do something with!

"Always chop the straggler trees first" -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

"I do think chat is a real big part of Age of Empire" - T90 (After Celebrating the return of Spectator Chat)

As long as the chat isn't personal attacks, I don't see how this is bad sportsmanship. Using chat as a distraction shouldn't be considered any different than using units as a distraction. He didn't make an inherently false claim, and in a tournament adding a psychological element to the game makes the gameplay way better for the audience.

T90 is turning into a grandfather, sharing his war stories from days passed. Nice format.

The chat wasn't part of the original strategy. His idea was to wall up to hide his base but the scout got in before and saw it was empty. The chat came after that and was clearly him trying to justify his empty base.

First of all amazing new series!! Second, I can understand the frustration from Capoch, but this wasn’t cheating. Trash talk or deception has been a part of sports since forever. It comes across as whiny when you call for an admin win. Further, it’s games like this that add spice to the game and become legends. It’s been months since the Magyard guy and we still fondly remember him. I’d go as far as to say that we need the occasional game like this! :)

“All warfare is based” - Sun Tzu

To be fair, capoch is a bit hot-headed so the improvised strat to rile him up turned out to work well. Also, who doesn't get suspicious when your opponent suddenly laments their weak position, that's like an instant red flag

This was great, not even trash talk just misdirection and not unsportsmanlike at all. The fact he was chatting could've given Capoch an idea to search for cheese but he fell for it instead so it's a gamble. great game, great analysis, and looking forward to future vids like this :D

"I meant to pick magyards" Was my favorite deception. I even used it a couple times.

Tbh a brazilian using "jeitinho" against an argentinian is peak sportsmanship.

Capoch had a couple of options with the chat. One never believe your enemy and handle chat with suspicion. Two have better scouting. I think it was very fair and clever play from Stark! Very fun game, well done T90!

Capoch should train up his mental fortitude, too bad the admin made such a silly rule. Cool video.

I think using the chat for deception is fine. It adds an interesting psychological element to the game. As long as people aren't getting aggressive and shit talking, then I'm okay with some deception. Frankly, Capoch could have ignored chat. It reminds me of the guy that would pretend he accidently picked the wrong civ and then show up with elephants to drop TCs 11

Thats why when opponents chat, I get very careful and start to scout thoroughly for cheese. And it worked for more than half of games. They shld hv kept quiet instead.

This was wonderful! I really enjoyed starks explanation at the end as a little post game content. Really appreciate this content! And would love to see more of it!

Huh I’ve never heard of bay. But that map does look strikingly familiar to PANTS

The chatting reminds me of early Korean eSports with StarCraft: Broodwar. One of the first innovators of the game, Boxer, would chat with his opponents to distract them. The Korean ESports Association would soon ban chatting during the game to stop this distraction strategy.

The strategy didn't involve the chat, the chat was there to hide his strategies. Think of classic Lewis Hamilton telling his crew he needs a pit even though he knows his car is perfectly fine.

I dont see anything wrong here. It isnt like Stark lied about the game being bugged, laggy or anything of that matter (he didnt abuse anything). Since this is a tournament why would Capoch go "easy" on Stark even if he had a bad start. If your opponent informs you they shot their boar with the TC, why would you change your game plan based on that info. I feel like Capoch was more angry about the sneak villager then the misleading statement.

I literally never comment on RU-vid videos but this was such a great video, I'd love to see more highly produced videos like this one 👍

"All warfare is based" -Sun Tsu

This is a brilliant strategy by Stark and it was a good decision by the tournament admin. I like Stark, he's a bit like Daut - a slower player winning games with perfect timings and decision-making. Yes, T90, this is a great content.

I feel like, in a strategy game like AoE there are a lot of aspects to consider, the chat being one of them. What is the difference between Stark saying "u ###### my start" and him 'deceiving' the opponent by sending a men at arms when he's actually going for archers? both can be seen as a strat and both are fair play in my opinion. Sidenote, stark saying "u ###### my start" is not very deceptive, as Capoch did win water? so? technically he did?

imagine not being able to chat. people nowadays are so sensitive. he wasnt rude. capoch was way salty and that was it.

I wanna see players do whatever it takes to win. The chat should be part of the mind game

Great vid. I really like this narrative style. Also comunity games with spec chat are hilarious, more of that too, please.

Honestly the resolution to this situation makes the AoE2 community look bad to me. Makes Capoch and the admin look like elitist pricks. They can't handle someone using the chat function. Seriously it's a chat. Could you imagine watching sports and having none of the players ever interact with each other between plays? It's not like St4rk said anything offensive, you might be able to argue the language they used was inappropriate but that is what the auto filter is for. St4rk didn't attack Capoch personally and it looked more like St4rk claiming they themselves messed up. Capoch whining about admin wins makes them look like a sore loser and the admins changing the rules makes them look like they wanted Capoch to win and are also sore losers but couldn't come up with a legitimate reason to take the win away from St4rk. AoE2 is such a small community that this situation isn't going to effect anything, but to me as an outsider to AoE2 (but not esports in general), this makes Capoch and the admins look pathetic. I strongly doubt that chat message impacted this game in a meaningful way and if it did Capoch only has themselves to blame.

Hope your hidden cup 5 T90 allows chat strategies, even though I don't think that will happens.

And I was just about to eat, perfect.

Thank god more aoe2!!! and not aoe4 crap 💩

I love it. I feel like you could narrate anything.

I love seeing games with chat :D. That chat strategy should be allowed, i cant believe they banned it afterwards.... Lol, if anything laming boars and sheep should be banned and not mental chat games.

T90, I really appreciate the effort you put into your content. For years I've been enjoying your uploads and streams -- they've brought me excitement, laughter, insight, even warmth. You reconnected me with a game that I loved from my youth, and you've played a massive part in building the community around it and helped it grow to something really special. Thank you T90. And yeah, this video was fun and I like the idea of seeing a series like this continue.

I feel it was bad sportsmanship from Capoch, its a war strategy game and deception has always been a part of war and strategy. If anything tournament level matches should show brilliant examples like this, otherwise you could start saying hiding a base behind your opponent is deceptive and not allowed.

AOE2 IS BETTER THAN AOE4!

Absolutely keep doing it. Really like this new format, just as much as i like the regular streaming format. Your work is amazing, keep it up!

Never believes the words of your enemies - Sun Tzu, Art of Deception

Please, please, please do a Sun Tzu series!!!

The game was good and that, but lets talk about the real thing here: how wonderfull spect chat is

I think chat could absolutely be a great and meta respected aspect of the game brings entertainment and debth so long as lines arent crossed

I liked this, and I think also a series going over important historical games might be awesome as well for those of us who haven't been following the game for 20 years.

New st4rk fan here. Pretty sad they banned the strat for the rest of the games

Capoch: "I will speak to the manager"

You didn't call the map by its actual name, pants. Otherwise 10/10 content!

To me, sportsmanship is directly insulting the opponent, ruining the computer or blackmailing (you would think with the prices pool this could happen). To master the art of deception cannot be forbidden. It is trickery not cheating.

I demand six seasons and a movie.

I want to thank you for the angle this video took. Especially with Stark's comment at the end. It gives the message imo that even if you are below someone in MMR, you can win. You can outsmart someone stronger, you can find your own strength or a new strategy that might give you the edge. It's a hopeful message and I would like @t90 to continue with this kind of content. It's a great motivator for 99.99% of players that you can improve, and even win against better players!

This remind me of Dota, one of the strongest teams is OG they won multiple tis by incorporating psychology into their strategies. Pioneered using chat and tipping to tilt their opponents while learning how to keep their cool even when they're losing really really badly. In a competition people are under a lot of pressure, if your mental state isn't on point and your opponent can exploit that you can make really bad mistakes.

In my personal (and very low ELO) opinion, Stark was already in position before the chat started and Capoch was always going to get his back door smashed in from there. Also never believe what your enemy tells you!

This was an awesome example of the famous quote by Sun Tzu, would love to see more!

Guys I think that even if the commenting is part of the strategy it is totally ok. First of all these guys want to call themselves professionals in AoE 2 and the reality is that the are paid to play. If you are a professional athlete for example you will have to suffer sneaky divings for penatlies/ free throws, unsportmaniship behaviour (sneaky punching/kicking etc). Such behaviour should be frowned upon but is not something that should affect your gamestyle or the approach that you have in the game. If you are a pro you have to admit that somebody outsmarted you and keep playing. The comment shouldn't change Capoche's approach for this match. If it did so, then he has to work on that because despite the comment he should keep the same stance against the opponent in terms of strategy. The personal relationship is a totally different thing.

I have not watched the full thing yet, but there is a general lesson for life in Capoch´s chat: If someone else invokes a reaction (like Capoch´s overconfidence here) in you, then that is purely your reaction and any other person could react differently. It is basically an opinion. If you act any different way because of overconfidence, that is fully your decision. That means that, at best, he deceived himself and at worst, he tried to blame his reaction on someone else. I apparently get philosophical, when I am tired

im only 30 seconds in, but im intrigued. im pausing to type this. Tristan, my friend. Even if maybe I end up not liking the video or maybe not watching all of it I really enjoy that you are having fun and experimenting and trying stuff! edit: 5min in, im liking it and i think i partially kind of know what will happen based on the thumbnail. nice!

Capoch is salty he got outplayed and is hoping to get a win by diqualification. There wasn't malice in St4rk's initial messages.

The thing about his first line saying "u ###### my start" isn't even a lie. St4rk lost on the water, and was behind at this point. Crazy to me that anyone would even think to punish st4rk for the chat that he said, when he didn't ask or manipulate capoch into doing anything other than thinking he's ahead, which he was. T90 is right in thinking Capoch wouldn't have done anything different, the only difference is that he wouldn't have tried to get an AW. If st4rk didn't say it was part of the strategy, there's no reason to think it was a lie at all, because the statements he made were all true to an extent, half truths. If he didn't say the line about being distracted by the scout I would say they were just true statements instead of half truths. Because while the scout was a distraction it didn't really matter, he should have said he lost on water at that point. The real kicker is Capoch talking about bringing the admins into it and that he will get the win regardless of outcome, that was the true unsportsmanship behavior that should result in an AW for st4rk. I thought the admin made the right approach in just saying don't do it again, a slap on the wrist equivalent... until no chatting was made a rule.

This is similar to calling boar stealing "laming" as the community has grown over the years to call it. To give that strat a bad name , suggest that its lame and game ruining whilst its something that makes incredible sense in an RTS game. Being cheeky on public chat to deceive is something thats rarely done in aoe2 high elo environments, I think that's why capoch jumped the gun , it's not because its generally thought of as against the rules , its because the aoe2 community as some unspoken rules and standards like with pausing and stuff (which is a very beautiful thing on its own , im not suggesting its bad)

What? Not allowed? You do not need to read the chat, you do not need to react to it. :D I bet if St4rk was truly on the wrong foot and Capoch defeats him in next couple minutes, he would never even think about "not allowed chat strat". He thought his opponent was doomed and he was fine with the info from the chat for himself but when it turns against him, suddenly it's not allowed? Like wtf man? :D

Stark totally deserved the win, and I actually am kind of disappointed in the second part of the admin's ruling (about not doing it again). Neutering the game to make it more "competitive" always seemed regressive and boring to me. If anything, top players should be able to handle more possibilities, and options, and surprises than regular players in ranked games. Although I feel the same about laming, and I know a lot of people will strongly disagree there.

I think it's not fair to tell st4rk "don't do this again". Chat is there in the game to be used. On such high level you must take a possibility of a bluff into account and not let the words affect your game. I think the only thing that should not be allowed is being disrespectful on a personal level. Banning bluff is like diminishing the strategical aspect of the game and making it solely about who's faster. We have first person shooters for that. Also to me it seems like Capoch was using this comment as a justification for his loss. And I don't believe he would win this if there was 0 chat involved. And a side note: I really don't like that community hates laming so much and associates that as well with bad sportsmanship. To me laming is the same as tower rush or a castle drop - just tactical approaches designed to stun your opponent and force them to adapt their plan.

Capoch did it to himself though... he led St4rk's scout away from the shore... which allowed St4rk's villager to sneak past.

Had I been tournament admin, and capoch would have come running to me like this, I would have kicked capoch from the tournament after this for being a little whiny milksop.

This is a really cool concept! I love the idea of selecting games that highlight a certain aspect of strategy.

9:00 thanks, I DO have good taste! nice of you to acknowledge that... hey, that means youre bragging about your content too! sneaky Tee-Ninety!

Stark did nothing wrong. Chat and mental warfare is a legitimate strat and skill. Now, because this is a game and not something like Game of Thrones, as long as you keep it within a certain limit I think it's fine and should be allowed and Stark was very subtle about it. No reason to not allow this. If the game is all about macro, micro and who can boom the best, then it's always going to be the same names at the top.

based st4rk. capoch and admin seethe and cope

Though understandable, capoch was the one with bad sportsmanship. Complaining mid game is weird. H should just finish she game then bring it up later.

If chat is a big part of AoE2, why did you move to Facebook where you have ~7500 less people to chat with?

hell yeah, using chat as a weapon. psychological warfare! this St4rk fellow knows about PSY-OPS loooooooooool

Capoch was salty because he thought he was cruising to victory and Stark made the big comeback. You shouldn't let another player's chatter get into your head, and I don't think that Capoch changed strategy due to St4rk's comment. St4rk should have built siege earlier in my opinion.

Napoleon did the same thing in real life, He tricked the coalition members into believing that he was in a weak position and ready to ask for peace. After this the battle of Austerlitz took place. So for me chating it s a true stratagy

About the base in the back: "its like a episode of low elo legends" How about calling it pro elo legends

I don't think that was unsportsmanlike. I think it's using everything at your disposal to gain an upper hand. If a simple missive carried by a diplomatic envoy can deceive you, that's just you being too rigid. St4rk was NOT using any exploits or bugs, that was some quick thinking outside the box, which makes it a 100% fair game.

off course Brazil Argentina rivalry had to do with it! Who's from which country??

this is the first time I’m this early, second comment baby wohoo les goooo that’s what I’ve been talkin about wohooo

Chat is part of the game, it's his own fault for falling for something like this. Should be allowed.

"hey guys, T90 of the law here"

Being mad cuz the enemy said something on chat is childish, lie is part of war.

lmfao capoch is just pissed cause he got mind fucked, all part of the game treat every game like diplo all chat could be a lie

Did Capoch maybe try to make St4rk think he had already given up by acting salty perhaps another form of deception

I loved hearing what Stark had to say hahahaha

Capoch stop being a crying baby 🍼. It's a war strategy game man.

Moral of the story: "Capoch is a big whinny baby" - Sun Tzu

"The game isn't over until the game says it's over." - Tsun Tsu.

Very good, thank you for this!

This is an amazing video, but i think that in torneo game this is unsportsmanlike

Bad manners are how games turn to trash. Do you want the lobbies to turn into COD lobbies? AOE2 is generally known for good sportsmanship and I don't expect it would have survived if it didn't. So is lying to gain an advantage bad manners? Of course! He lied to try to gain sympathy. But that doesn't mean it should be against the rules: the competitions are cutthroat.

Capoch was butthurt cause he got clapped and tried to get the w with the org, so sad