The Atlanta Streetcar: Will it get better? 

I hope some day US transit project timelines are measured by years instead of generations...

That turn at the end was physically painful

That interview with the mayor was painful

I am always amazed that Atlanta managed to build the Betline at all. It's our only hope at this point.

"Nice Slow Moving People Mover" 💀💀💀

That interview with Andre Dickens was....extremely painful to watch. A streetcar shouldn't be just a tourist attraction, they should be actual services for residents! If American city governments want people to use streetcars instead of just taking a bus, then the key is actually making it useful and convenient, with transit-priority signals, good frequencies, solid feeder connections with other transit, closing streets for cars so streetcars aren't blocked, transit-oriented development, and expansion! And when I hear him say people mover...it makes me think of places like Detroit and Singapore's Punggol and Bukit Panjang. Though to be fair to Detroit, the DPM is a circulator because it was meant to have different rail lines as feeders in the original ambitious plan, but it and the suburbs couldn't decide on anything for the 600 million promised by Gerald Ford, and so only the circulator got built and the money was withdrawn by Reagan. So the QLine built in 2017 is a step closer to that vision. Miami's Metromover is successful, but that's because that system has different loops and Miami has booming development to back up ridership along with connecting to Metrorail, Metrobus bus loops, and also Brightline. But with Bukit Panjang in Singapore, a people mover (or should I say LRT...) is the worst solution for it! For starters, they call it an LRT when it's very much not. They chose to build a people mover (while cheaper to build, it costs more to operate than the MRT) with very low capacity in an extremely dense area (you'd need three of the LRT cars connected together just to match the capacity of a single MRT car; they're two connected together). The accessibility is very bad as even if stations have elevators, they're useless when you can't cross the very busy roads to the stations without going up steps. The ride isn't comfy because of all the twists and turns (which makes the system unreliable), basically a roller coaster. And I've seen Twitter accounts post about how cool the windows are on the LRT because they're special panels made to block people's apartments when they're not cool, it's quite silly and they often don't work like they're supposed to, sometimes leaving the whole car opaque during the whole journey!

bruh when the mayor said possibly autonomous pods I wanted to bash my keyboard into my monitor.

Thank you again Thom. Being back here in Atlanta after living half my life in Japan riding trains and buses everyday everywhere is painful sometimes. In 2000, we had 5 extensions to MARTA Metro slated along with this new streetcar/tram idea that was taking shape. We were 4 years removed from the olympics and still had a progressive approach to transit. 24 years later, and PHOENIX, DALLAS, and even MIAMI have more shovel ready transit projects happening. It’s maddening.

I don’t know what’s more painful, that streetcar trying to pull out of the station or the mayor talking about the beltline…

how to fix it: 1. run more than 15 minute frequencies, im tired of cities acting like "we discovered if the train comes every 15 minutes, people will ride it!!!!1111!!!!" like BRO cities knew that 50 years ago. and 15 minutes is not enough for a streetcar. Atlanta should buy more LRV's and run, imo, 3 minutes peak and 6 minutes off peak, kinda like Houston Metrorail. 2. dedicated lanes and signal priority 3. more lines, instead of it just being a downtown circulator, make the streetcar into an URBAN circulator!

This is what I like about your content Thom. You are pro train but still critical. I feel, that I get the full picture here. Pros and Cons. And to be honest, this line is strange. Why did they built a one-way loop in the first place? I don't get it. It just feels like a tourist attraction for an outsider like me... Also, I liked the look into the past and future! Let us pray they get their s**t together....

The clip from the Mayor is infuriating. It reminds me of anytime Mariel Bowser talks about the DC Metro. You can just tell, she's never actually used it and has no concept of who uses it, how it's used, or what is needed. Atlanta's Mayor didn't say it, but you could just hear "NIMBYs and businesses are already complaining, and I'm going to do whatever they say" behind his words.

The Beltline is extremely popular in Atlanta, especially the East Beltline. There has been a ton of development that has taken place on it and it's the most lively pedestrian area in the city with many walkable live-work- play type neighborhoods attached to it. It's the perfect place for a quality street car line. The streetcar line you rode on is being extended to reach a section of the East Beltline howerver, and 4 additional Marta train stations are planned to be opened at Beltline connecting points.

A nice, slow moving people mover“ I think he is saying the quiet part loud

The Georgia Aquarium is quite a cool place! It has more than more than 11 million US gallons of water, or around 42 million liters! It was the largest aquarium in the world from its opening in 2005 until 2012 when it was surpassed by the Marine Life Park (formerly SEA Aquarium) in Singapore and the Chimelong Ocean Kingdom in China in 2014. To prepare the Aquarium for opening in 2005, staff piped in 8 million gallons (or 30.3 million liters) of City of Atlanta tap water, which is enough to fill 160,000 bathtubs, to fill the exhibits! After treating it to remove chemicals and impurities, the staff had to turn this fresh water into salt water for marine habitats. To do this, they added 750 2,000-pound (907 kg) sacks of Instant Ocean sea salt, for a total of 1.5 million pounds, or over 680,000 kilograms! That's the equivalent of more than 920,000 containers of table salt! The facility recycles almost 99 percent of it over 11 million gallons of water! A treatment and reclamation system cleans and recycles the water, losing only a little to evaporation and the protein skimmers that help remove debris. Behind the scenes, the Aquarium uses three types of filtration, and it takes over 500 pumps, 148 sand filters and 82 protein skimmers to filter the whole Aquarium!

8:39 I LOVE that this student's Masters Thesis was put to use by the city! (sort of, eventually)

I was 2019 in ATL and I loved the Marta System. I really enjoyed the City

That left turn at the end from Peachtree onto Ellis was signal-controlled when I regularly drove through the intersection a couple of years ago. (It kind of has to be because the streetcar crosses so many lanes of traffic there.) I wonder if there was a technical glitch with the light that day.

We have a metromover people mover system in my hometown of DOWNTOWN MIAMI. You should check that out if you haven’t already. Side note: I live like 4 hours from Atlanta in PORT WENTWORTH, GA.

I think i would extend the streetcar northwest via Georgia Tech, Home Park, and Berkeley Park to Channing Valley as well as southeast via Cabbagetown to Glenwood Park. I think this would increase ridership and help cover some gaps where MARTA doesn’t go. There are some dense areas that currently don’t have rail service there and i am surprised no one has even thought of this. I would also give the streetcar it’s own right of way where possible to allow for more light rail-like service.

Yes, the mayor keeps back tracking, I hope they get a different mayor for sure over Atlanta. What's the point of the beltline? They should have prioritized the rail first, then the trails. And it's just the majority in my by the minority that complain about it. It's business minority. Not really the residents that much complain about the idea of light rail. I think by far most of them like the idea of it. I think they think that it will be bad for business for them, reality would be would actually probably bring more business. But you are absolutely right. They should prioritize the light rail. It shouldn't be stopping at the stop lights.

2:51 that sounds like the patco sound

And I thought the RTD R-line in Denver was painfully slow haha. "Nice slow moving people mover" he just doesn't get it, that belt line begs for a fast, heavy commuter train, throw some silverliner 5s at that belt line.

Sacrt Sacramento does have lights rail too

MARTA is pretty much a joke to most natives here. Streetcar crawls and goes nowhere, trains have basically 2 mainline routes with zero provisions for express service from the terminals to downtown and they are proposing 4 infill stations to further slow down service. The only time my contemporaries and I ride it are from the terminals to GA Tech/Falcons games and shows at the Fox. As you discovered, Breeze is no breeze, more like a puff.

Do you plan to visit Charlotte, NC and cover their light rail and street car?

Another great video! This wasn’t up and running the last time I was in Atlanta. Look forward to trying this and seeing the new MARTA trains when when they’re in service.

I found this quite an informative video! I liked how the bell sounds classical! The streetcar itself, on the other hand... can use improvements. Personally, I, like you, hope that Atlanta does decide to extend the Atlanta Streetcar onto the BeltLine. Indeed, I was not even aware that any other plan was even considered, since it makes perfect sense for the former railroad line to be a railroad line once again. Thanks for the video!

A streetcar running in mixed traffic is a waste of money. That's what a bus does. Even buses have traffic pre-emption now. US streetcars are mostly built not to solve a transportation problem but as a downtown marketing device, an expensive downtown marketing device. Cities in Europe have good examples of how to build a streetcar line. The Atlanta mayor demonstrates the problem with most US city politicians, they have no experience using transit and have no idea what the economic potential of good rapid transit is, despite having a heavy rail subway in his city. The fact that he cites a "people mover" as a legitimate transit option means that only transit he's ever used is the Atlanta airport people mover. I think mayors should be required to use the transit system to get to/from work at least one week a month. Could be a good way to connect with the constituents that can't pay for $500/plate dinners to talk to him and to see what is really happening on the streets of the city.

I would say it looks good for a way to get around the city centre if it has a larger LRT or metro system to get in the cit, here in Newcastle in England we have a perfect metro system but I could definitely see a small tram route just to get around the main attractions

I look forward to being able to say back in my day we could walk faster than the tram. Seriously the streetcar needs to be dramatically sped up and that is 100% why it is underused.

Nashville has a chance for smart light rail ,the former mayor shot down by planning to much at once ,

Wow, I'm blown away by its punctuality 😅

Great footage, thanks for sharing

IMHO, if a streetcar runs in mixed traffic and doesn't have signal priority, it's just a really expensive bus. Upgrade it to a true light rail line or better or simply don't bother.

As soon as you said "Welcome to Atlanta", the Jermaine Dupri song started playing in my head. So.... the modern American streetcar is a grift by Siemens to sell rail equipment to subpar transit systems that don't go enough places and are slow?

Slow streetcar but it looks elegant. I never rode on a streetcar in Atlanta, but I did rode on a MARTA a few times.

Great video! The Beltline sounds like a wonderful idea-if it gets built as rail. The fact that pods and “nice and slow” peoplemovers were suggested is actually sad. Gadgetbahns definitely aren’t the move here. Perhaps Atlanta could look to the St. Louis MetroLink as an example, since they (successfully) turned old freight rights of way into a modern transit system! Another example is (although much less extensive) the Tide in Norfolk, VA.

It'll be great once it's completed.

yeah it does move slow. I rode just for the heck of it and it takes 30 min for the whole loop. I would still take it to avoid hot and cold temperatures. Although it seems that the majority of people that rides it are homeless that want to sit and chill

comparing french and italian trams to slow moving people movers is a crime in itself.

FYI Atlanta is also the home city of Delta Airlines!

Sacrt tram bell sound like e bells

Looking forward to the urban circulator video. Street cars in the modern us face such an uphill battle.. I rode Kansas City and it was pleasant. But so many street cars are worse than well implemented BRT. But brt is so often done poorly too.

You need to come to Charlotte, NC and try the light rail there

Would love you to do future video on the Kansas City streetcar. Was just there, and if anywhere needed a robust metro system…

Im not sure where they went wrong with this project. It should have at least gone to King Memorial Marta station. I dont see it running on the Beltline ever! Especially now that they want Marta stations on the Beltline.

Thanks

Awesome video as always from trains are awesome i always watch till the end

Only slightly more convenient than the moving sidewalk.

I rode the Atlanta streetcar. I only rode it two stops from Centennial Olympic Park. Next time I visit Atlanta I'll check out the Martin Luther King district.

I really don't expect fast moving people mover in a city at grade level. I'm sure it has to do with traffic (vehicle and pedestrian). That being said, I'm sure it could go a little faster if allowed by the city insurance company.

those are the same trains as the san diego mts. the newer low floor trolleys that are replacing the old ones

So there is existing railroad ROW (right-of-way) circling the city of Atlanta just sitting there? Atlanta, get the city of St. Louis on the line ASAP lol. The original section on the St. Louis Metrolink was built on existing ROW so it could be done in Atlanta 🤷🏿‍♂ As far the nice slow moving people mover, just have the Mayor watch the last clip of that streetcar attempting to leave the station. That was brutal lol, I'll assume the operator had the walk speed button activated by accident 😆

I'm going to Atlanta at the end of May and the nearest MARTA station to my hotel is PeachTree Center. If I take the street car one stop Westward it may save walking a few blocks and get me slightly closer to my hotel but my question to you is, is it worth doing?

we hear the will of the people and slower it is! 🙂

The Atlanta street car is a joke among trainset enthusiast. Everyone in atl also thinks its a joke, I really hope Andre Dickens doesn't mess with the plan for the street car extension. Everyone I talk to loves the idea of connecting some of the biggest retail districts in Atlanta to downtown and other marta stops.

That clipped digital recording of a bell ringing was just the cherry on top of the sh*t sundae that is the Atlanta Streetcar. If you haven't already, I'd recommend you come to Kansas City and ride our streetcar, maybe once the Main Street extension to UMKC opens sometime next year. It's got amazing ridership (being free to ride helps!) and connects a lot of popular neighborhoods together.

The main problem with Atlanta is that it’s in a state that is notoriously difficult to build any kind of good transit. Georgia is unfortunately one of the most anti-rail states in the country, so as a result of that rail projects don’t get funded. That’s part of the reason why Andre Dickens was suggesting building a slow people mover on the beltline, because he just wants something built, and he knows that’s probably the only thing that the Georgia state government might be willing to fund. MARTA is the only transit agency in the US that get absolutely zero funding from the state, so because of that they have to get their funding from the federal government to stay afloat, because if the Georgia state government had its way, they would not only be not funding the rail system but also dismantling the entire rail system because of how hostile they are to trains. It’s really a sad thing when you think about it

Great video. Would you ever do a video on your opinions of all US streetcar systems? Again good to see Lyndsey keeping an eye on you lol.

7:26 sad streetcar

The eastside of the beltline is so popular & gentrified they dont want the streetcar there anymore. They would rather have cars.

I dont think light rail will get built on the beltline. Atlanta was built on rail. But now, we're all about cars. Morning else will do.

Watching the Trolley at the end was so painful to watch.

I still don’t know why they didn’t invest the money into MARTA expansion along I-75. I hated this plan from day 1.

I’ve ridden on the Atlanta Streetcar before and it’s nice but it’s SLOW. That’s not something you use if you’re rushing to get somewhere, that’s plainly for sightseeing & truthfully, you’re not seeing a whole hell of a lot. It’s a streetcar that means well but the term “the train to nowhere” fits this like nothing I’ve ever ridden on before. It’s a shame that you can see that the leadership in Atlanta isn’t making this Streetcar and anything connecting to it a priority. I feel terrible for the ATL folks who are getting cheated by the city & state government by their inaction.

I loved your allusion to "A Streetcar Named Desire". 😀 I'm reminded of the day (about 15 years ago) when I rode the Phoenix light rail line. It too was sloooooooooooooooooooow. And that was light rail, with very little street running. I think we waited for traffic lights too. Anyway, it's presentations like yours that will remind cities that rapid transit is supposed to be rapid.

Rare for the largest city to be the state capital; Massachusetts, Hawaii also spring to mind but there might be some other ones too .

"We're talking about a city with some of the worst traffic in the world" as someone who's spent a lot of time down there growing up, I can confidently say that is no exaggeration. It sucks, the highways make very little sense, and God forbid you come a circle. My uncle who's lived down there for about 20-25 years has labeled Atlanta as "The city of eternal road construction" Don't get me wrong, Atlanta is a great city and I have incredibly fond memories of railfanning near the old Southern Railway HQ when the old bridge was still there (and other locations but sadly not inman or tilford yard, never got to go there). It's just driving there is a nightmare and this is coming from someone who lives in Baltimore, AKA the capitol of terrible road planning (like navigating a maze) and the worst drivers.

I didn't have the conductor come round on the West Midlands Metro in Birmingham, so free ride. My conductor was even less proactive than yours.

Traffic has to be designed from Walk over Bike and transit to cars and not like here the other way round. "A people mover like in Disneyland" 🙈 Oh boy!

If this is all that people have in the largest city in my state, then I’m rather disappointed in Georgia. The last time I took the streetcar was years ago. It was fine; I was younger and cared more about the novelty than any practical considerations because there’s been no passenger rail transport of any sort here in Columbus since probably 1971. I wouldn’t imagine many people who rely on Atlanta’s underdeveloped public transportation system would react very well to their mayor after seeing him interviewed like that. Unless streetcars are thought of as merely tourist attractions (which shouldn’t be the case), people tend to work and have schedules, and thus wouldn’t find much use from a “nice, slow-moving” vehicle.

How would you propose to improve the Atlanta street car?

I suppose that ride would’ve even been a lot slower if the passenger had decided not to put on his shirt. Presumably there was no subsequent drama that followed because passengers can sometimes turn ugly and confrontational if they are told to put on a shirt, pay their fare, or to not smoke or vape.

I like the video 😊

You can pay with a Breeze card by tapping it on there and pressing Validate. Also with the debit card, make sure you leave it in, as it’s a chip reader.

Mario Kart DS was the first game with online multiplayer ;

Slower than southern molasses! Wow! Great critique. I hope the political powers that be are listening! BTW, when you are in the ATL area again, come and visit Paschal's on Concourse B @ Hartsfield-- my late Great Uncle's pride & joy! 🥰

I’ve been on this train as well. The first time I rode it I tried to use my phone to show the one ride ticket because I have the breeze app mainly for the entire Marta system but somehow it didn’t work out that I had to pay in cash, well mostly coins which worked out. Then last time I was going to pay $1 in cash but it didn’t look like anyone else was because of a delay that was due to an accident.

7:52 can you tell me what happened why was it sitting?

I love the idea of putting the streetcar around beltline too, but if you'd of seen the very important thing the Mayor said next in the interview, which was "the math has to work", he has a point. He is right to question whether this is the right idea. Atlanta's traffic problem is primarily people outside the city limits traveling in and through, streetcar doesn't solve this. The neighbouring counties are very anti public transport and Georgia DOT... well... *eye roll*. Also Atlanta itself is low density, about 3,700 people per sq/mile, rough rule of thumb for streetcar is about 10,000 people per sq/mile, there's some flexibility, if there's a clear set of destinations on a route that generates ridership, but there isn't on these routes. One of the objectives was to encourage development through streetcar, well, the development is already happening and whilst it's more dense than single family, it's still not that high a density, nothing like the density Portland has seen along it's streetcar for example. Density along a lot of the suggested routes is unlikely to change significantly as developments are already in/planned on some areas and other areas are protected historic neighbourhoods/university campus. Unlike other cities that may be able to pull from state funding, there is no state funding, the city can only has to rely on their own limited budget and unpredictable federal money, they also need to consider the long term subsidies the lines will need to keep running. The math on this has to work, it's a long term commitment and Atlanta has a lot of other priorities. Really pleased to see the Mayor back more stations on Marta, revamped existing stations, new trains and more transport oriented development. It's heavy rail, which was designed to be part of a MUCH larger network, but that didn't happen, so the ridership has never been that high and therefore is currently well subsidised. Investment to encourage more usage on the system the city already has, making it more a more efficient, effective system, is a no-brainer.

Wait.. so Atlanta DOES have subway?

Yeah I dont fully understand why these streetcars are so common, they cost alot and I think in the mean time it would be better to have BRT in the central area so that cross town buses could be faster and more useful. But our stigma of buses means they dont spur development like rail does.

I enjoy that video👍👍

Thom, I just googled the population of Metro Atlanta, it is 6,307,26. Forget about the streetcar. It's an embarrassment for such a big Metro Area to be without any train service.

VTA through downtown San Jose feels just as slow. Takes forever to get through and you could almost walk it faster.

Thanks for this. I visited Atlanta for the first time in March, but didn't have a chance to ride this.

The problem of traffic around Atlanta won’t be addressed until significant rail infrastructure is added back to the city. Encircling Atlanta won’t alleviate traffic coming from commuters around the perimeter so outward expansion is needed. Annoyingly my county (Gwinnett) is about to ask 17B for a freaking bus rapid transit line. Like what?? Just use trains and get it done in a timely manner bc the previous train ask apparently said 20+ years to develop

Thom, for the love of god, if MARTA expands their streetcar network, they're going to be blocking up traffic all over downtown Atlanta as slow as they are, MARTA needs a commuter rail network instead, LOL!!!😂😂😂

You say it's barely walking pace, and yet Warrington to London Euston is 104 mph non-stop (I was on a late one which was actually 112 mph). So clearly "transit" encompasses a range of speeds.

About that in depth video, what is your opinion on the kc street car?

I'm pretty sure those streetcars are Siemens S700s, not S70s

if you like streetcars that are Historic i highly Reconmened that you Review The New Orleans Regional Transit Authority aka RTA. They have 5 streetcar lines including the Historic St Charles Streetcar that dates back to 1834. The Streetcars currently in use are the 1923 Perly A Thomas 900 series cars. Next time you visit New Orleans. check out the Red lady Streetcars too.

Me hearing Andre speak: Belt Line you in Danger Gurl.

As an ATL transplant from Boston..home of the first subway in America that still runs streetcars, MARTA as a whole makes me numb..the highways and roads here literally can’t take anymore

aren't the new "S70"'s called S700's now?

✌🏾

Nice and slow, wow, nice yes, but slow that really discourages people from riding transit.

Those are the cta 5000 seats!

There is something completely wrong in the way US legislation handles LRV's. Most countries don't make a difference between LRV and Heavy Rail if the US would do the same LRV's would automatically have signal priority.