It was actually an audio salesman who gave me the following warning: An Audiophile USES music to listen to their equipment, while a Musicphile USES equipment to listen to their music. He changed my entire perspective....
Words of wisdom my friend! Some of the best advice I've heard, as audiophiles, it's easy to lose focus and forget why we embarked in this journey to begin with! Thanks Steve!
Years ago there were audio stores everywhere so you could bring your own music and listen. That's what I did 37 years ago. Always brought the same albums of different musical styles and brought my buddy for another set of ears. We spent about a year doing that almost every weekend and heard a lot of great sounding speakers and a lot of supposed to be great speakers. It was ironic that it was at the very last store there was in town that we had not visited we both had a sonic revelation that changed everything. I orderd a pair the very next day, and still have them 37 years later. These speakers changed the way I thought HIFI should sound forever, they are the best purchase of my life. They are MY Klipschorns, for me 37 years of total bliss. Thanks for reading my rant.
I really miss the days when there were Hi-Fi stores everywhere, back in the 70's for me. I used to love to go in these stores and just look around and listen. Pioneer Receivers were so beautiful back then in every way, and quite a few others were too. But, I think that is when Choosing a Hi-Fi system was the most fun. I bought my dream system in 1989 with money I put away and saved and I bought one component at a time. Took me about 8 or nine months to save enough money to buy all the components. All Technics!!! It still sounds as awesome and amazing as it did them. Still works perfectly.
K-Horns have always been my favorite speaker ever! The best system I've ever heard was K-Horns powered by Luxman Laboratory Reference Series electronics. Unfortunately I can't afford them and I live in a small studio apt. so even La Scalas are out of the question (even if I could afford them).
killifish13 I am in complete agreement with you. I know there are a lot of Klipsch haters out there that don’t like the undeniable horn sound, but for me, like you, I have never looked back since I got mine. Changed a lot of other stuff over the years, but will die with my cornerhorns being my source of music enjoyment!
Good point Steve. I discovered something similar a couple of years ago when I completed the latest revision of my own room tuning. The sound is now slightly less detailed, but more natural and better balanced. Since then, I'm listening to a wider variety of music and found that all the detail is still there, it just doesn't jump out and grab like it used to, which is more natural.
What a great point! I have said for years that I find myself listening to my stereo more than the music. My musical interest have changed for that very reason. However the older I have gotten, I find that I like the musical change.
Just use three different speaker systems for ALL your music. You will have the ability to enjoy the entire spectrum of genres AND will get rid of your wife too, all in one fell swoop. :)
I'm a mix engineer so it's my personal preference. (and of course I have a sound treated room) I generally don't boost bass and treble like many. But as I said. it's a personal preference :) Cheers. Everything is valid IMO. it is up to the end user/listener
When I was an audiophile, I owned a lot of albums that had mediocre (or just plain bad) music that had been recorded REALLY WELL. Most of them are from Sheffield Labs. :) Did I just hear the flute player fart? What AMAZING fidelity!
4 года назад
So-called audiophile albums are the kiss of death.
@@ecamormex I had to thing about this. The answer is that I became a Christian and it caused me to re-evaluate all sorts of aspects of my life - even the more subtle ones. The result, after doing that for decades, is that I see every single thing I own as a tool to do something. This means I never get wrapped up in the tool but focus on why I have it. I even had a fancy car once because it is what was going to cause me to be more successful in my occupation (commercial real estate at the time). Now I have a very nice stereo and actually listen to the music because I like the music. And my entire system is worth only around $1,500. To an audiophile, that's not even hi-fi. But it is to me, and I enjoy the music a lot more than I did when I had an "audiophile" system.
Well said and an important point made. Some of the best sounding and most detailed loudspeakers I have ever heard were Martin Logan loudspeakers. I almost bought them but went with Snell Acoustics Xa75 towers as they are detailed but not fatiguing. Choose audio gear based on your music choices not what someone else is listening too!
same thing happened to me , I was listening to music that sounded great but I didn't love , I sold everything and started again , now I listen to vintage 70's equipment and never been happier .
Thanks Steve! I have a pair of cheap Radio Shack 3-ways in which I replaced the crossover caps with German-made metallized polypropylenes and stuffed the interiors with crumpled, brown wrapping paper to break up standing waves, driven by a 1960s era Motorola copper chassis home stereo unit - 6BM8 Soviet-era output tubes for left and right and a summed bass channel ( progressive!) also using a 6BM8 output which drives a dried-up, 60 year old alnico woofer in a Magnavox home stereo cab from the 60s. I replaced the old ceramic coupling caps (not bad sounding!) with Siemens German-made paper-in-oils. The transformers are dinky, paper-bobbin, paper-wound, open-frame things. All the carbon comp resistors are out of spec (but at least consistently down the line). This little set up ( around $400) is now my reference unit. I have not heard any set up for less than about $5000 that can touch it. It's phenomenal! Hours of pleasure! Vinyl rules forever :-)
Nice food for thought! I always look for improvements for my system, but to make my experience with my music better, not because it is just better sounding. I want to feel emotions and hear things I couldn't before to make my love for what I listen to grow. But it is very easy to fall into this trap of "making my stuff better" instead of "making my music great to me". I know for sure that I was more than once about to fall for it. The balance is hard to find sometimes. Your video is a much welcome reminder of what is actually important : the pleasure of the music itself, not the stuff it is played on.
I got into that back when I was living in Boston, falling into the "Audiophile" world, and buying only esoteric "audiophile" jazz and classical stuff that I hated listening to, but that I was told I needed to listen to. Same, I cut down the rock that I really Loved and grew up on and even played myself! I broke out of that and sold it all eventually, buying a receiver and some small Alesis studio monitors, and got back into enjoying the music for what it is!
A very enlightening point! Further, since I was younger I noticed that there are speakers that play rock, pop music, for example, with more force, and energy than other speakers. Although I have gotten a bit off the topic, I certainly comprehend exactly what you are saying, Steve Guttenberg.
A variation of listening to actual music and not to your gear. So true. The reason why I've spent time putting together my two systems over the years is that I want to maximise the enjoyment of my favourite music.
Love the "printed circuit board unpopulated through hole" montage art piece over your right shoulder in the background. It's beautiful. Searching for the Holy Grail of playback audio can take a lifetime, and you may never get there (life is short). But it's a fun journey.
I couldn't agree more, that you should be able to listen to music that you like on your audio system, not just music that makes the equipment sound good! I spent something like a year searching for a new pair of speakers, bringing the original "Born to Run" CD (among others), one that deliberately had a "harsh" sound, to see if the speakers I was auditioning were listenable. Most of the time the dealer didn't want me to use the CDs I brought, rather they tried to get me to listen to tunes from artists that I never heard of, but whose recordings made their equipment "shine". In the long run, I'm really happy with the choices I made!
I totally agree with this and I did the same thing as you, I have my vintage JBL speakers back and I’m happier. We are all different and like different things, otherwise the world would be really boring.
the thing is: the most music i grew up with (rock like pearl jam and so on) sounds a little bit boring on a good system. on my system it rocks and works, yes. but there is nothing more in it. thats`s one of the reasons i tend to listen to jazz or more complx music - it`s just more fun to listen and discover to.
That happened to me when I bought a pair of Martin Logan "Source" panel/bass box speakers. All of the sudden I started listening to female vocals with gentle accompaniment, almost exclusively, despite my preference for the rock-based music that comprised the vast majority of my music catalog. I sold them in less than six months and began to rock again.
Snobbism is the biggest reason I distantiate from audiophiles. I love great audio, always looking for improvements (which can be measured, not made up), but the percentage of snobs and true morons (and worse: a combination of those two) is skyhigh in most audiophile discussions, which takes the fun out of most discussions pretty fast.
Certainly those people are out there, but if you read the comments below any hi-fi related video, you see plenty of snobbism from people dismissing everything the person in the video thinks and says. So, it goes both ways.
Ahh yeah because evaluating everything on paper based on simple measurements from pulp articles is SO much more fun than actually listening. Do you like sound or do you just like gear?
I had a pair of Quad ESL-63s myself and they were wonderful ... but they had LIMITED dynamic range! Part of that got cured with a subwoofer to fill in the bottom two octaves, but for full orchestra or rock, they really didn't get the job done. What solved the problem for me were a pair of Martin-Logan reQuests - 12-inch dynamic woofer on the bottom and electrostatic panel on top and a LOT more dynamic range. Been listening to them through Mark Levinson electronics for the past 20+ years and LOVING 'em.
I loved listening to music. I had a series of really cheap nasty systems, but it didn't matter to me. I didn't know any better. The music was the thing. Then I worked with an audiophile who explained what a better sound system gave. So, I bought a fairly decent starter set up on a pretty low budget and was impressed by the quality of the sound. The trouble was, now I wasn't listening to the music, I was listening to the system. I then upgraded and listened to everything again and could hear the quality difference. Thankfully I am now back to listening to the music. Surround sound and 3d have the same problem for me. Instead of just watching a film they make me lookout for the difference. I prefer to just enjoy a movie, these things distract me rather than enhance the experience. That said, when it comes to audio, I do enjoy the sound of a good system, but have to discipline myself to listen to the music and not the system!
So true!!! I mixed my systems depending on the genre of music I listened to. Room 1- NAD amp n cassette deck n CD player NAD speakers; and Pioneer amp n Pioneer speakers and Klipsch horn speakers. Room 2 Yamaha amp DVD player/CD n speakers KEF speakers Telefunken speakers Wharfdale speakers. 3 amps A B selectors with 6 pairs of speakers. I prefer classical, JAZZ, folk, country, vocal, blues, soul, RnB, Motown, Big Bands, and World music. TV is only connected to BOSE sound bar.
I bought the first model of Quad ESL 57 electrostatics in 1972. I listen almost entirely to acoustic music, mainly orchestral. 15 years later I thought that needed more bass and replaced them with dynamics and have always regretted it. You can never get that open, natural, uncoloured sound with dynamic speakers. I notice that there is a German manufacturer making the Quad ESLs again so I am tempted!
So am I Not so CRAZY for having two 100 watt per channel stereo systems in my bedroom? One is a Pioneer with BIC speakers, and the other is a Yamaha with Polk Audio speakers. I will let you guess which system I use for hip hop, techno, and rap; as opposed to jazz, rock, and classical. Please let me know. I value your opinion!
So true. The good thing is that in the digital age, we can create custom EQ maps for each tune, and compensate for a single playback supply-chain's shortcomings! Sad, but I do that, and it really comes down to tuning things to how I like to hear them, and not necessarily how they were "meant" to be heard. LOL. Very nice post sir.
...you've inspired me to pull the trigger and pack up the speakers I just bought and send'em back. Yeah, the old ones work better, both generally and, more specifically, for what I'm listening to. For all the countless zillions some of the gear you cover costs, it still seems like you always bring it back to an enthusiasm for music...
I have read several Levinson interviews over the years and I always really liked where he was coming from. I envy you, as I always wanted to meet "the legend". I still think the No. 20.6 amplifiers were a quantum leap in the evolution of the solid-state amplifier and the 23.5 was my all time favorite two channel amp. That being said, I am a man of simple means, so my experience is limited. In response to the video - I had a similar yet somewhat inverse experience. I was a "louder is better" person in my youth and ended up with a system that would blast metal and hard rock - it sounded great. Then I grew older and my musical tastes started to change; and along with it - out went the 18-inch JBL subs, horns, PA amplifiers, EQ's, crossovers and mixer board. I discovered the tube preamp, monitors and up-tempo jazz on vinyl. I will always have a rock and roll heart but my evolution into jazz and female vocalists opened my eyes to critical listening. I finally settled on the Magnepan 3.6R and I don't regret it. They don't do everything perfectly but they do a lot of things really well. It was hard letting go of the first system - but it was holding me back from enjoying all kinds of new music. I credit none other than Dan Wright of Modwright for showing me the light. The SWL 9.0SE was probably the best audio purchase of my life!
This guy has his thumb planted directly on the pulse of us music lovers/audiophiles. He discusses topics and issues that most of us think about, if not obsess over.
I did exactly what your talking about, started buying some jazz because it sounded sooo good on my system. However that's not "my" music, the system started choosing the music. I caught my self early in regards to this problem. Always need to remember the music should be first and the gear second, but it's really hard sometimes. The gear you purchase must compliment the music you listen to. I purchased a Bryston 4B cubed amp and b26 pre amp and couldn't be happier since its perfect for playing my music, in fact it gets complelely out of the way of the music. Great advise Steve.
Love your videos and insight into the Audio World. One has to assume that many of your viewers have broad eclectic musical taste, like yourself. I would posit that your viewers DO indeed have broad musical taste and with that, indicates that you DO know who your viewers are! You have a terrific way to present and it even qualifies as entertaining! Thanks.
Way ahead of ya! 'Balance' is the way to go. 1 system for all; so it "has" to reproduce a large range of music, it also must reproduce a large range of film soundtracks. [1 of my 'answers' was Maggie's as well!!]
I first listened to David Bowie's Heroes when I was in 6th grade and loved it. I realized how cruddy it sounds when friend of mine bought a Teac CD player and played Joni Mitchell. Revelation ca. 1981. I've bought every reissue ever since. Ryco is the best and the newer ones is ok (with the replacement cd). My Ryco years system was a Carver and B&W. I think I was happy with it, maybe I should hunt one on eBay? Ahh the pursuit.
A lot of floor standing speakers these days are tall shelf speakers because of the small speaker size . I added a REL subwoofer to my system now it really kicks arse. What a difference. Should never have got rid of my Yamaha NS1000 Speakers.
Steve what you said is prophetic..I’m guilty of the same. Currently enjoying 2 way BR with compression drivers and 10’s I built myself and they have almost holographic imaging. Yet I DO have an acoustic setup of a SET and Fostex FR.
The only thing that really affects what I listen to is the way albums are mastered. I have a number of CDs that I bought before I was aware of the loudness war and I tend to shy away from listening to them even if I love the music, which is a shame, but artists should know better.
From what I understand, most artists don’t have control over the final mastering, where the compression is usually applied. Even “mastering” as an art and craft seems to have disappeared from mainstream music, and is just now a part of the finishing process. A lot of rock music is re-released over and over again and the dynamics are worse each time. It’s really a shame.
I would think they'd be able to request the album to be mastered in a certain way, but I suppose if they have no clue what good mastering is then they're not going to request anything since they don't know any better. I just don't get how so many bands can hear the final product and be fine with it.
I find myself discovering all kinds of music genres and bands that I didn't even consider before my new audio system. I am ecstatic about streaming services like Tidal, which offer an almost endless journey of musical discovery from the comfort of my listening chair.
Great point Steve! So many people fail to realize that. And I think we are all guilty of it. Sometimes one speaker can’t do it all. Never audition at any audio show. Better still bring the speakers home.
Steve, great perspective. I don't consider myself an audiophile as I don't have enough money to be one! However, I listen to a wide range of music. I have ported mid towers I use for my rock/metal and hip-hop moods, and a nice pair of single driver, back loaded horns that I build for my more acoustic moods. It's actually working out pretty well for me.
I've had my electrostatic speakers for over 30 years and love them. Everything else sounds distorted. I never heard dynamic speakers with the tight accurate bass I get and the dynamics can be shocking. They are fun to listen to with everything but I love my Sheffield Lab records as well as my Mobile Fidelity records. There is nothing like electrostatic bass but the real thing.
The music you rock out to in your car should be the same music you rock out to at home on your best system. If you're a metalhead, you should be listening to metal and loving it on ALL YOUR SYSTEMS.
I recently upgraded my headphone (Sennheiser 800S) system with better components and cables to where it’s more musical and resolving. But now I have the predicament of hearing how crappy the production values were in my old rock recordings (Bruce Springsteen, Yes, Sting, etc.). Ironically, I’m finding them more enjoyable to listen to in my “secondary system” (my car stereo with stock speakers). I’d like to see a video explaining why the recording quality of most rock albums are so bad.
Good point. This is what Neil Young has been complaining about for years. There are some good classic rock recordings out there, but it seems like they were all produced by a fairly small group of people, guys like Phill Brown for instance. That's a name to look for. Michael Fremer interviewed him recently, and his portfolio is like an audiophile's bucket list.
I have to use less resolving cans or speakers to have more fun on music like that. It takes away from the music to reveal every flaw in production. It really becomes self-defeating to try to listen to poor recordings on high-resolution gear.
True but the question remains, why do record companies produce high quality recordings for jazz and classical but produce crap recordings for rock, even though it generates the bulk of their profits?
You answered your own question. The sound is produced to sound good where and with what most people will listen. Back in Rocks day it was the car and home stereos, we turned up the bass and treble. Sounds good then. Not much power in car systems of the past, nor much bass in even albums at home below about 50hz. It was bamm slamm, and louder better, so compress it. It wasn't about quality, it was quantity.
It is because musicians are not audiophiles and do not care at all about audio quality...so they just are not interested how good or bad an album sounds. Lacking that final 'quality control', producers and engineers just mix the albums on the crappy ns 10 as it is how people will listen to them in their 10 usd earphones...
This is why I've always liked big Magnepans. To me, they're a great compromise, with a lot of the clarity of electrostatics (which does add to my enjoyment by making acoustical music sound real) and a lot of the slam and extension of big dynamics. I currently have a 30-year-old pair of Tympani IVA's and if there's a bargain in audio, that's it (but be prepared for divorce if you try to put them in your living room!). They're flat down to 25 Hz and cruise at 110 dB, which is already louder than I care to listen at my age, and most importantly they're great with everything I listen to -- classical, rock, and movies. If I needed something new, small, inexpensive, and wife friendly, I think I'd get a pair of .7's and mate them with subs.
You made me realuze important things there. Thank you! My gear will not dictate what i should listen or what theyre better off. If thry suvk on what they want then they suck for me, i think. Thanks for making me realized that!
I listen to a lot of death metal with my PSB speakers and I am extremely happy with them. Luciano Pavarotti sounds equally marvelous on them. I have a pair of PSB Image 4T floor-standers and this model was reviewed by Stereophile magazine. They loved these speakers and they were ecstatic to recommend them in year 2002. I bought them in year 2000 and they still sound like the day I bought them.
I listen to all types of music but a good system will show u just how the music sounds like and lately I have been into jazz cause the albums have this fantastic sound that rock doesn’t have.
This is interesting as my system did not initially have tone controls (pre-amp) for probably the first 25 years & I remember how some recordings (all CD, no vinyl) sounded truly amazing & others not so much. I realize now the lack of tone controls in theory would allow me to hear what the sound engineer intended when making the final recording. I do recall coming to the conclusion that CD's appeared almost antiseptic compared to vinyl (on a good system). I finally after all these years swapped out the pre-amp for one with tone controls as I made my two speaker system a home theater also. I def. dreaded the poor quality sounding recordings no matter how much I loved the music (ex; Journey).
My mistake lasted several decades. It started with music and ended with listening to ever changing high end hifi gear. It was a fun but often a too expensive and frustrating 'experience' for me (and my wife, who is a musician) . It ended well ten years ago, when I 'downgraded' to a pair of AN AX Two and a Nad 325BEE, expecting that to not last very long. But it did and since then we have collected lots of new albums, listening to music. Though today still appreciating ' good sound' , like Roger Water's new album, giving me tears in my eyes, while writing this ;-) Unfortunately I recently saw the cute new Rega Brio with built in phono stage in a shop and stupid of me, I also read the rave reviews: If only I still had my good old job...
Good advice Steve. If you haven’t already tried them, you might consider one of the larger Apogee speaker models, the Full Range, Diva or Scintilla (hopefully refurbished). These will give you all of that transparency, detail and imaging capability of your former Quads, which I too still own, but with tremendous dynamics and powerful deep bass. They don’t seem to favor any one kind of music, from delicate acoustic pieces to power rock. In my experience my Divas and my Full Ranges (especially) sound more beautiful and less fatiguing on more pieces of music than any other speakers I’ve tried. And that advantage is not due to euphoric coloration or masking. I think it’s due to low distortion, few resonances in the audio band, and effortless peak SPL generation. Phase coherence helps too. Maybe not the best choice for a reviewer because of their peculiar amplifier requirements though...
I own a few very cheap low quality speakers: one is made of cardboard, one is a cheap bluetooth sound bar, and also a rather cheap pair of headphones. All of them sound GREAT. Not great for classical music or in terms of HiFidelity, but they have this cheap old radio type sound which is great and altough they're kinda one-trick ponies, they're quite good at what they're doing: music in my bathroom for the soundbar, vintage videogames for the cardboard, mixing audio from my computer with the headphones.
2 weeks ago I was in a small store that sold vinyl records only. I spent almost an hour looking through the racks while listening to the owner and a customer talk shop. Not once did they mention the MUSIC that was on the albums. Just how collectible it was. They gushed over finding a rare mono recording or something else that made the record valuable. I wanted to say something, but I would have sounded like a judgemental asshole. Which is exactly what I was being. Oh well, to each his own.
It's the same with old cars: the world sees them more and more as investments, instead of toys to drive and have fun with or even means of transportation. Same with expensive art originals: all locked up in vaults.
Excellent point Steve. My musical taste is broad, and I expect to be able to enjoy all of it, even though on any system some recordings will shine more than others. Since my experience goes back to early 70's I have see of innovations and trends come and go. Some things rem as in constant. Acoustics rule - great speakers can sound terrible if the space is not damped correctly, or the right size/ dimensions/shape etc. Or they are not positioned correctly. I am not the guy that will spend a paycheck for a better a/c power chord. But speaker wire makes an audible difference. Up to a point. Again, no need to bust your 401K to get great sound.
The quality of the recording ( dynamic range, frequency response, imaging, noise, etc) is THE deciding factor for me whether I enjoy a recording or not.
I now have some Eminent Tech (out of Florida) ES-8's. They're a great hybrid. The subs give the "balls" for rock, yet the panels give the transparency that I love. They can rock...and they can jazz. (and no, I don't work for them or get anything from them...I bought my pair retail like any other "normal" person!)
I know what you're saying and yes many audio files go for what you are descibing but, not I. I'm not about to junk my 2.500 lps, just cos they ain't great in an audiofile way. I've just spent a considerable amount on my tt, power amps (valve) and preamp. I'm hearing my albums better, as I'm hearing deeper into the mixed and am finding it easier to follow individual instruments. This doesn't distract from my on going pleasure of these albums - it just adds.
Its like me with headphones. I find a lot of expensive high end headphones super fatiguing and unpleasant. I much rather stick to my RH-300's and there "dull" sound. To me they sound perfectly natural and easily crisp enough. And they're dynamic and open enough for me to just enjoy what I'm listening to for hours on end xD
He very right here. I have done this but I have learnt new music by doing this and do enjoy the music.
6 лет назад
One way to deal with the sound quality issue is to start your session with the older recordings and gradually work up to the newer ones, where the production standards are likely to be much better. That way, you can finish on a satisfied note. If you start with a great recording and then switch to an older one with inferior sound, you will be disappointed (even if it's a favorite of yours). This method often serves me well.
I have had the same experience. I always wanted a Bose 901 system, but when I finally had them I found that I missed the punchy, big bass sound of my Realistic Mach Twos which people laughed at me for ...until they heard them. I ran both sets together for a time when I had the room. When it was time for a big move cross country, I sold the 901's and haven't looked back.
It's more than just the speakers. It's the source and the type of Amplification used. An Audiophile is just an enthusiast with knowledge of the gear and it's implementation to the task at hand.
While it still boils down to personal preference, a "good" system will be able to sound good with any type of music. And the better a system is, the WORSE a bad recording will sound and the BETTER a good recording will sound. Unfortunately, most of the music I like is not recorded well. So, I split my time between hearing music I like and hearing music that is recorded well to get the satisfaction of what well recorded music sound like. Let's face it, most people in the music business, including the artists are NOT audiophiles! And, unfortunately most audiophile labels have unimaginative and boring music!
I learned early on that, for me, it is not about details, base, or anything technical, it is about music! A really great system shall not just recitate the notes it shall play the music,make you enjoy the art and forget the moment, make you tap your feeds and nod your head. Make you like all sort of genres, even the music you usual don't bother to listen to, because it is not "your stile" In other words: How my system sounds, it doesn't, it sings! :-)
It really depends on your budget. If you have a big budget you can build a system that sounds great with all kinds of music. If you have a small budget you can still build a system that sounds great, but really only with a selected style of music. For 500 bucks or so you could build a system that sounds damn good for jazz combos, or a system that sounds great for reggae, but not one that sounds great for both.
