The Avro Arrow: Canada's Favorite Delta Wing 

there is nobody that has the capacity or want to bring back a plane with such a narrow mission profile

@@wartmcbeighn brother, I suspect that a newer "Arrow" wouldn't be an interceptor. It would probably be designed according to the new requirements.

Did you hear the rumors of the model that wasn't. Hidden in plane sight

More proof that Simon didn't do his research XD.

The Ottawa museum has a cockpit section in the main hall and a single wing in the restoration hangar. There is a full scale model that used to be in the Toronto Science Museum but I don't know where that went after the museum closed. Note: that's a model made for a movie, not a real aircraft.

Aye. I think one full scale model of the Arrow was made in recent decades, but out of wood & sheet metal. (bit like that HO.229 replica that a documentary touted in the 00's)

@@Mishn0 I was in the Ottawa museum in 1999. They had the cockpit out of one of the prototypes there, but I can't remember the wing. The model pulled out of the lake was still in the lake back then.

Was it an African or Europ....oh wait you said Arrow.

@@kellyjackson7889 Exactly, what is the airspeed velocity of an Avro Arrow? lol.

I grew up in orangeville so I can visualize it flying over Caledon mountain

Wow that sounds awesome I live five minutes away from Caledon on Mayfield Road I would pay money to see an arrow in real life

@@MrMagoo-qx9ie You can't see shit Mr. Magoo

So the real Megaproject was the USA/England/Israel controlled counter intelligence leading to cost overuns to both kill Canadian defense & aerospace companies while stripping her of her best minds? Joe Biden: God save the queen, man!

Mine was as well! I have a book about them that has everyone's signatures in it.

Do Americans outside of Texas really care about the Alamo?

Except the Arrow could have changed the course of aviation history and the Alamo is a very regional affair.

@@christophertownsend3820 And if not for the Arrow's cancellation, the Soviets may have been the firsts on the Moon.

@Tike Myson Canada : MEH... still better than Trump....

@@chitlitlah some do

Like the TSR 2 is in the UK both aircraft better than what the USA built at the time the US Gov would NOT like that at all !

A black eye, yes, but simultaneously a shining testament to Canadian engineering talent. And a damned shame; the Avro Arrow was an utter beauty.

Canadian military have proven themselves as a power. All servicemen for WW1 & WW2 are the best in the world. As a non-Canadian you should be proud of your fellow countrymen and woman paying the ultimate sacrifice.

"a black eye" That's just CBC nationalist nonsense, the Arrow was a money sink made by typical Liberal party corruption. The CBC convinced a large portion of the population that the US and Conservative were to blame in order to distract from the fact their chosen party funneled billions to their freinds.

@@TheOwenMajor I wouldn't say a Liberal corruption but I agree there is way too much nationalist nonsense and cancelling the program saved a lot of financial heartache in the decades to come.

I'm 37 and I'm so triggered right now. I'm in my corner crying right now. But...to be fair, most of my friends aren't huge airplane nerds like me. I'm fortunate that I live in Ottawa so at least once a year I make my pilgrimage to the Air & Space Museum to look at the nose cone.

im 40 and i know all about the avro mess up

All 36 of us...

nope, he offended everyone

@@themanformerlyknownascomme777 Simon didn't offend anyone. He just triggered all Canadians to start crying, softly in a corner.

The Americans would never have bought it though and they had perfectly good interceptors that didn't need fly by wire, as well as significantly better interceptors than Arrow in development that were cancelled because they were no longer required.

No reason for cancellation if it was worth anything....defentheif screwed us all....

Chopping them up on the tarmac suggests the PM had likely been told to get rid of them by the US govt, because it would compromise their own developments. Backroom deals. Otherwise, they would have just kept the remaining Arrows for service. Rash decisions like that just don't happen.

So the real Megaproject was the USA/England/Israel controlled counter intelligence leading to cost overuns to both kill Canadian defense & aerospace companies while stripping her of her best minds? Joe Biden: God save the queen, man!

I was born in the 80s, and yet I still get angry about this. There is an alternate timeline where Canada is an aeronautical powerhouse, not just getting kudos for the Canadarm, and selling small commercial aircraft designs to Airbus.

It hurts so much.

Douche enbaker

Yeah and let his bones rot. That penny-pinching small minded man was liked by nobody, including himself.

@@paddy19656 My wife is a minister. One of the people she buried was the head of Norad during the last years of Dief's reign. Apparently by that time the man was stone deaf, and without comprehension of anything going on around him. Not comfortable at the height of the Cold War.

@@davidford694 The lack of comprehension likely started well before his political career.

@AjaxEddiefan I worked with engineers that emigrated to the US because their talents were no longer needed in Canada.

*According to a CBC docudrama piece of propaganda. That "very capable" aircraft was outperformed by an older much cheaper aircraft, the Delta Dart. It was so "political" that the Americans canceled their own interceptor programs around the same time. The "demise" of the Canadian aircraft industry was because juicy WW2 contracts had dried up. That's why the many USA manufacturers also went belly up or were bought out at the same time. Turns out a country of 20 million can't fund the same level of development as world superpowers, who would have guessed?

Thanks John Diefenbaker...

John Diefenbaker had a choice to make, buy the sams from U.S and post them so they can hit the Bears before reaching North America or if NOT they where going to shoot down the bears over our land that would lead to nuclear contamination in Canadian Soil. It was a smart option in John's eyes to end the budget with interceptors and use SAM's.

I hate to be the guy to say this, but ICBMs, SLBMs, and bomber launched cruise missiles would have killed the Arrow the same way it killed all the interceptor jets that the Arrow would've operated alongside. Very nearly obsolete before it even flew. Some people online wanted them to build a spiritual successor out of an enlarged YF-23 airframe and call it the Super Arrow. Might have been really a cool revival of Canadian aerospace but I guess it was never official in any way.

Yes, they were betrayed by Diefenbaker, more easily than it might have been because he saw it as a Liberal thing - like a Canadian flag against which he fought tooth and nail.

It was a sellout by our government. Our élites don't believe we're capable of such feats and they're running the place.

I was about to say he forgot to mention the engine, which theoretically would have pushed the plane over Mach 2 with its greater thrust weight and efficiency

Yes, he missed that one. I believe it holds records for non-afterburner thrust and thrust to weight ratio that still stands.

@@AnvilDragon Plenty of jet engines have higher dry and wet thrust. Some also have much higher thrust to weight. It is an ancient engine after all.

Simon missed a great deal upon this topic, while butchering the rest. #NotSurprised

@@jimtaylor294 Yes that’s the standard of this channel. Quantity over quality.

A clue is in the nickname: “Dief the chief”

It was like fingernails on a chalkboard

Simon apparently never watched Due North...

Sad that Simone couldn't have done a little more fact checking before airtime. So sad.

Just ouch all over on that one.

What have u worked on?

Well im triggered but not for the same reason: He lied about the reason of the cancellation of the plane and he didnt say the reason why the ones in the hanger were destroyed nor by who: the government had no intention of cancelling the avro arrow and they actually finished 2 jets. But they were the night just after it was annonced that they were complete a bunch of civilians stormed the hanger where the planes were kept and destroyed the planes by cutting them into small pieces with steel cutting tools, thats what caused the cancellation. And the reason for their destruction is because of the new threats of icbm and space attacks, the army decided to change the missile munition of the avro arrow with nuclear interception missiles. The idea was to make an explosion so big that all incoming threats would be neutralized weither it was coming from space or a bunch of soviet icbm. Naturaly there was a lot of anti nuke movements in Canada and the though of using nukes like that alarmed everyone because then you'd get a ton of nuclear fallout everywhere. Thats why the planes were destroyed and then later all nukes in Canada were disarmed and destroyed..... Or so they say, but im pretty sure Canada still has a few nukes hidden somewhere in the north, its a huge country.

The worst was they destroyed the engine. It was the best of any out there and many would have bought it.

This happened in Argentina too with several designs. While I despise Peron, the military that ousted him destroyed several unique proyects. The "Naranjero" cargo plane was an all wing aircraft desined by Reimar Horten to use props or jets to carry loads on unprepared airfields and as paratrooper plane. The 1955 coup ended with orders to smash the planes with axes and burn them all to the last piece, included all data.

Many of the AVRO engineers could not stomach the demand to destroy all plans and designs for the Arrow and a horde of documents and drawings were secretly squirreled away in engineers basements and attics. The recovered documents represent many thousands of hours of engineering. They are only coming to light in recent years as the aging engineers are passing away and the documents are being uncovered by families. A complete Iroquois engine, separated into nine manufacturing modules, was found several years ago at an airbase in England and has been recently returned to Canadian soil. It is now in the hands of a British Columbia engine re-manufacturing company who is hoping to raise the funding to perform some restoration, complete the assembly of the modules and fire up the completed engine.

There are many who believe that one AVRO Arrow escaped destruction. Malton, Ontario where the AVRO plant was located was a new and growing suburb of Toronto during the late 1950's. Many of the AVRO employees made their homes there. When Arrow testing began, the suburbanites of Malton, young and old would flock from their homes into the streets to see each fly over when they heard the very distinctive sound of the Arrow's engines. Those double engines sounded like no other aircraft and the residents became very familiar with it. Within days after the Arrow's cancellation was announced, many residents claim to have heard one Arrow fly out under the cover of darkness and they did not hear it return. Many have maintained their claim on their death beds.

@@stevenembree7669 True!

This narrative is a sad Canadian fantasy. Many in the north adhere to this bizarre notion of "Canadian supremacy." It's a psychological sickness. Canadians are always telling me who's Canadian, what was invented in Canada, and what is made in Canada. They are blessed with incalculable advantages from living next to the most powerful liberal democracy in the history of the world. Yet somehow in the Canadian mind, this fact is a negative that seems to be eating them alive. Please, Canadians, relax, binge watch The Beachcombers, and forget all about this old plane.

@@davidnelson2472 No thanks, we're too busy binge watching America tear itself apart

Same, my gramps engineered it as well. Avro in Brantford.

I worked at McDonnell Douglas in the late 70s to early 80s in teh same bay where the Awro final assembly was.

The Arrow was outdated before it's first flight. Not only was the concept outdated by the mid 50's, but it was also outperformed by older aircraft. The CBC managed to convince an easily deceived public that we were somehow cheated out of glory, instead of the reality which was the Canadian government was funding a private costly trainwreck(Where have we heard this before, cough Bombardier, cough)

The Arrow was a solution to a problem that no longer existed. By the time the Arrow would have entered service the long range Soviet bombers it was meant to intercept were replaced by ICBMs.

@@TheOwenMajor Agree here completely (Toss Air Canada on that dung heap too)

@@TheOwenMajor Agreed, it has a weird cult following due to dying young and single-handily carrying Canada's ego.

This is why we should stop voting liberals back in to office. Like even now there over spending instead of telling people to go on welfare witch was put in place for all most the exact thing that is going on in the world right now we in canada are still living in a post grate depression and spanish flu government with an out dated system for the modern day. Giving 3000 a month to some one who lost there job do to covid well people who still had to work got nothing and the elderly and disabled and unemployed got for $25a person to 200 extra a month. Or nothing at all after the first month

Well spotted!

I like your reply!

Good catch. Also got the PM’s name wrong - Diefenbaker (aka Dief -rhymes with Chief)

Other contemporary engines like the Bristol Olympus and YJ93 were more powerful by the time Iroquois would likely have entered service. It was a good engine but it wasn't anything miraculous.

At 14:38 he does mention the engineers that went to NASA and worked on Apollo.

@@colinmacvicar2507 Thank you, not sure how I missed that.

Canadian do not believe in giving big corporations like hockey teams tax breaks like American do. but Canadian Pride we would have kept this program and paid for it happily what a good thing for our government at the time to be remembered by.

Also the Iroquois engine had a buy I. The french...they were looking at it to power thier mirage ..also in development...and could have sold over 500 to them alone....f the defenbaker

Yep, the AVRO Arrow and the BAC TSR-2 even looked similar but had rather different functions in mind. The cancellation of the TSR2 caused an enormous political row in the UK. But the technology of this plane was advanced and a lot was learned.

When I first looked into the arrow as a child, I had the immediate impression of underhanded US interference. Not sure how, as I definitely didn't have the awareness or knowledge to form that belief.

TSR2 was a dog of an aircraft, Engines didn't fit the aircraft and had design flaws which could not be fixed without a total redesign. It was massively overweight and couldn't met either the RAF's range or speed requirements. Oh and the Nav Attack System computers were too slow and didn't have the memory to do even half of what was required of it. On top of that it was found that the new lightweight alloy used to build half the airframe was brittle as hell and any scratch or dent in it led to fatigue cracks starting immediately. Most of the praise for the aircraft came from the press and the newsreels, when the RAF found out it was a dogs dinner, they had a heart attack.

Grumman aircraft originally had the contract for the f11 before it was named the F-111 and I know this because my father was a test pilot for Grumman Aerospace it did not go well so every country has their experiments and their Follies it's all part of the big learning curve we call the arms race

Played how and by whom

no they wouldn't. canada simply doesn't have the taxpayer base to maintain an elite aerospace industry. britain has double the GDP of canada and the best they can do is join a multinational coalition to build the eurofighter which was at best comparable to the f-18, a 20 year old design. the arrow would've been a miraculous success story in its day, but to pretend canada would maintain that lead into today is sheer delusion. as the mercury administrator said to the test pilot, 'funding makes your birds go up.' your brain drain doesn't mean a damn cuz your government never had the funds to build their own F15 or f22 or B2.

We can still be proud of the Candu nuclear reactor, the telephone (in some sense), basketball, Bombardier (sort of), and many more companies and ideas. Never count out Canada, we have a strong vein for innovation. Heck, the Instant Pot is Canadian. We are contributors, innovators, and so much more. We can be leaders but we need to find our feet again, our pride in innovation and protect it. The government needs to be strong enough to protect it, this video was an example of being sold out by the government of the day. Instead of being torn down, even if the project was cancelled, Avro should have been allowed to pivot on the project and move on to new ideas but... no. cna.ca/reactors-and-smrs/how-a-nuclear-reactorworks/

@@JustCameronAndHisJeep and we gave the world Poutine.

@@oldfrend A pointless argument since Canada has no need for, nor does it operate F15s, F22s, or B2s. We have an aging fleet of CF-18s. Had the Arrow program not been cancelled, we might instead be operating a fleet of home-grown multi-role aircraft, like Sweden for example.

@@CaptHollister So true... That in itself should lead to world peace... in moderation. ;-)

How about a video on Americas mega election fraud.

Word is the Iroquois was used to develop the engines for the Concorde. One of them can be seen at the Canadian Warplane Heritage museum in Mount Hope Ontario. The Toronto Aerospace museum made a full size model of the Arrow but it is in storage after TAM was closed. Huge thing it was.

@Herman Greenfield personally I believe most elections are fraudulent no matter the winner. I mean come on a politician is a politician

@@goofyfoot2001 shortest video in Simon's history.

@@davidringle7 - sad realities... yes, but that is a political fraud, not the election itself.

Very interesting story ! :D

Yes. And those plans are in... the Diefenbaker museum. Like having a statue of Hitler at Aushwitz.

That model is to go on display at the museum at CFB Trenton. Where they also have an early prototype missile for the Arrow as well.

It was more than a coupla years ago. closer to 20 years. and it was off the scarborough bluffs.

@@kittypigeonclueless5566 I would be interested to hear of the model off Scarborough. In all the years I've studied the Arrow project the only models anyone has ever spoke if was the 9 launched off Prince Edward County. One of which they found in 2017 and raised from the Lake in 2018. I've never heard of anymore more. Not even the so-called ones lauched in to the ocean the video speaks of.

YES! ....and also shipbuilding/design! Check out who had the largest navies at the end of WWII.

In reality 3rd largest in numbers, but miss leading. No Battleships or Carriers.

@@roberthowell7095 Without the cargo supply ships, the battleships and carriers have no use at all. The fact is even the Germans would not be mid-ocean either. Our Navy was needed for suppies.

It's sad really, the CBC has whipped up such nationalist fervor over something which should have been a lesson. The Arrow program was corporate welfare, to politically connected companies. The CBC successfully lied about it to protect the Liberal party from its history of corruption.

I totally disagree with you Owen Major......The ARROW was a thing of perfection that NATO could have used and could have been a symbol of Canadian pride.....actually it is something, even in its unnatural demise, that many of us are proud of. My son met one of the designers of the ARROW, a Doctor of Engineering, Dr. Johnson, when he was in university becoming an Engineer. He said Dr. Johnson was his favorite teacher. He said Dr. Johnson was very exacting. He told all his students that they came to university knowing how to crawl. He would teach them how to get up and run. With a designer like that the ARROW had to have been exceptional.....A work of art....A thing of beauty.....A lost treasure......So. so sad.

@@Hummmminify Look up the actual performance of the Arrow, despite costing an insane amount, it couldn't match the performance of the much cheaper, and older, Delta Dart. Regardless the concept of an interceptor was dead by the mid 50's. With advancing technology you no longer needed a flying engine to counter the Soviet Bomber threat/

@@TheOwenMajor I guess you don't know all the history....the ARROW was the only machine that could actually exit the atmosphere for a short time and come back at that time without burning out. Maybe not useful but certainly extraordinary and remarkable. What would have happened do you think if we had explored all the opportunities... maybe we would have had a really huge part in exploring Space... Where did all those really big brains go....54 brains....most of them went to the USA....Dr. Johnson was one of the few that stayed in 🇨🇦. He is a great brain. He sits or did sit on a world panel of 7 other brains 🧠 that are quietly called upon to go to different parts of the world 🌎 when they have engineering problems that may be life threatening....just something to think about....just a thought. In any case I am very proud of the work they did and deplore the fact that they did not have the chance to fully explore the concepts.....sigh such a waste of a great concept.....maybe Dief was afraid to have something better than the USA....also we in Canada 🇨🇦 are so dependent on the USA....especially now with all the insecurity in the USA right now.

@@Hummmminify "the ARROW was the only machine that could actually exit the atmosphere for a short " No it couldn't, that was made up by the CBC. You saw that in a fictional TV show. Right now I'm pretty sure you're getting your "history" from a piece of nationalistic entertainment. " Maybe not useful but certainly extraordinary and remarkable." Which is probably why they made it up for the TV show. "had a really huge part in exploring Space." Aircraft based satellite launchers were tried, they sucked. "especially now with all the insecurity in the USA right now." And this is what it comes down to. Unfortunately in Canada, our central identity is how much better we are than the US. This smug arrogance is why it is so easy for orgs like the CBC to invent anti-American propaganda to distract from political failures at home. The CBC used the Arrow myth to distract from Liberal corruption in the 50's, just like they use Trump to distract from Justins corruption.

are they the Iroquois engines?

@@jameslatimer3600 yes they are. One was found in Vancouver and one in England.

That was the Canadian tests, and Yes one model WAS found and is now is the proud possession of the Canadian Government.

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/avro-arrow-recovered-lake-ontario-1.4793463

Many were launched from a test range in Virginia

@@qualicumwilson5168 The model that was found in 2017 was a DTV Delta Test Vehicle which was a precurser to the actual Avro Arrow 1/8 scale free flight test models that were launched at Point Petre, Ontario over Lake Ontario. The DTV test vehicle was put on display at the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa in 2019. That is not an actual Avro Arrow free flight test model. In September 2020 the Expedition team did however find what appears to be an actual Avro Arrow free flight test model at the bottom of Lake Ontario and I've seen the picture of that. These models were different then the DTV which just had a triangular wing which ran along the center of the fuselage. The Avro Arrow test models had a Delta Wing that was higher up on the fuselage like the actual Arrow Arrow designs and also the Avro Arrow test models had a Vertical Stabilizer on the tail, whereas the DTV's did not.

This is what I've heard too. President Eisenhower: If the Soviets fire missiles at us, we will shoot them down over Canada. Do you want that to happen Prime Minister Diefenbaker? Diefenbaker: No President: If you cancel the Avro Arrow project, we will build a Distant Early Warning line with manned stations across the Arctic. We will shoot those missiles down before the reach the populated parts of Canada. Do you like that idea? Diefenbaker: Yes Diefenbaker: Cancel that Avro Arrow project ... NOW

The Arrow was outperformed by the older and cheaper Delta Dart, the US didn't need to sabotage the Arrow, nobody was interested in it. Talking about the SR-71, the US actually was thinking about making it an armed interceptor. They canceled it because they(like everyone else) realized the interceptor concept was dead.

John Diefenbaker had a choice to make, buy the sams from U.S and post them so they can hit the Bears before reaching North America or if NOT they where going to shoot down the bears over our land that would lead to nuclear contamination in Canadian Soil. It was a smart option in John's eyes to end the budget with interceptors and use SAM's.

Nah... if the US couldn't produce something on par I don't think they would have been threatened, they would have just bought it from canada. Also they had the F4 phantom on the drawing board which would turn out to be an aircraft with similar specs/fills a similar role. A fast, high altitude interceptor. Canada had they put the avro arrow into production for awhile canada would have had the #1 interceptor in the world, which would have been a point of pride but ultimately our GDP doesn't support a program of that magnitude. It's probably a project that realistically should have never been tendered. As for the fact that avro was shuttered because of the cancellation of the project... I don't know the economics of the situation as a lot of those details are simply too difficult to pull up on the internet but again there is no responsible way to justify spending that much of the GDP on an interceptor when SAM batteries will do the same work.

@@TheOwenMajor The delta Dart out performed the CF 105? How so? The J75 engined CF 105 was slightly faster at Mach 1.98, and had a higher ceiling. The Iroquois engine Mk2 would have been even faster. If the armed interceptor concept is dead, why are they still being designed & produced?

The Argus was an excellent ASW platform. It simply got old and couldn't be retrofitted with modern ASW gear, so it was pulled from service.

For awhile, the CF-100 was the only NATO jet based in Europe that was all weather capable, something even the mighty USAF was lacking in.

@@gumpyoldbugger6944 A friends' father flew CF 86s in Europe, and commented that the CF 86 would fly circles around a CF 100. I added, but only on a nice day.

@@drewthompson7457 It should noted that the CF-86 was also built under licence in Canada again by Canadair with the second batch run of Mk 5's and Mk 6's swapping out the General Electric J47 engine for the Avro Canada Orenda engine. The Mk 6 got the upgrade Orenda and is considered to be the best of all Sabre variants, again demonstrating that back in the day, Canada was no slouch when it came to designing and improving military jet fighters. Again the CF-86 was a bit of export success story and last saw action in the Pakistani-Indian War of 1971. Some of the Canadair CF-86's were even used by the USAF. One last thing though, not to take away from the CF-86, but it was retired from service with the RCAF when the CF-104's came on line, where as the old CF-100's soldiered on for a couple more decades in one form or another.

We'll do it!

Ah, yes, Wilson - "Dief - the Chief" (PM's name rhyming ... for Simon.)

@@mikeread5132 I thought it was "Dief the thief"?

I'm pretty certain Fleming was at Camp X (Oshawa, Ontario) possibly receiving training during the war.

@@richardcovello5367 I will not quibble with you as I do not know for sure when Ian Fleming was in Canada but after the war makes more sense as casually talking about spying activities DURING the war would not be taken too lightly by those higher in command. Just my thoughts on it.

It's not a joke, so, ' gist ' is more appropriate.

The Lord of the Rings was terrible for those of us who read the trilogy. It was Hollyweird pandering at its worst. I never watched the sequels, knowing how bad, and how badly written, the first one was.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I have also read all (and I do mean all) the books and quite enjoyed the Jackson LOTR Trilogy (the Hobbit Trilogy, less so). But the point is not the quality of the movie, so much as the massive effort needed to facilitate such a large production.

You have to realize something about Canada. We have a country organized around an industrial policy that favours the Toronto region. The result was pilfering of industry from Quebec and prevent growth in other parts of Canada to foster dependence, which means the ability to use an economic choke chain. This can be seen quite dramatically in the 1960s when the Americans wanted to dredge out Sydney, NS into a deep water port. That was spiked immediately by Ottawa because it circumvented certain shipping monopolies. Ever wonder why oil from Alberta suddenly stops before it reached the established refineries in Quebec? Bay Street. If Alberta sells their oil, they get a cut on the international transaction. Any oil that now has to be imported, let's say for the refineries in Saint John, the banks get another cut on those import. Guess where all the banks are run and headquartered? In that place where all Liberal cabinet minister go to retire: Toronto. Even when entire new industries were created by CD Howe in WW2, they made sure it all went to the Toronto area. Don't forget, that when Canada was being discussed in Charlottetown, Upper Canada had to muscle its way in. McDonald's great railroad project was paid for by Nova Scotia (which was actually the richest colony of the four at the time, and why there was reluctance in NS to join Confederation). This problem really hasn't gone away, either. Recently with the new NAFTA, Trudeau willingly sacrificed supply management in the agriculture industry to "save" precious SW Ontario jobs. Previous to that, a former Liberal MP in my old rural NB riding, was told at the time to "sit down, shut up, vote for FTA or we cut equalization." Diefenbaker's decision was quite lucid, and didn't need to resort to a seance to speak with FDR's dead dog like McKenzie King did. lol

meanwhile in america: wtf is an avro arrow?

@@pwalker1360 From where do you get this mis information?

It was cancelled mainly becau8se it was draining all of Canada's meager defense budget and the Army and Navy were extremely jealous, the Yanks had nothing to do with it. The US even offered to equip Canada with the Arrow interceptor through the Norad agreements.

@@jamiecanivet247 from 47 years on this planet. You pick up a great many things, particularly when working in a consultancy that did work for the Feds.

Name of his new channel: Fantastic Planes

No way, eh. I can't believe he's doing it. I think he is a hoser 😆 love it

It is pretty freaky how much Canadians love this plane. I think alot of them sincerely believe an Avro Arrow could shoot down an F22.

@@f.wallace8969 it’s a cargo cult. A female hand emerged from Lake Ontario in 1953 holding the design blueprints of a plane capable of shooting down an F-22 raptor 100 years in the future.

@@f.wallace8969because of the politics behind it. We had a Mach 2 interceptor before 1960, and were told to destroy all plans specs builds etc by our government out of fear from Americans that there was a Soviet mole in the program.

"NOT THE CRAWWWW...THE CRAWWWW!"

The models were sent in to Lake Ontario not the Atlantic Ocean!

@@ryanmunro8428 Nine models were shot into Lake Ontario.Two were shot from NACA'S Wallops Island test area into the Atlantic ocean.

HMCS Bonaventure, the aircraft carrier US pilots were scared of landing on. If memory serves me right she was originally the HMS Warrior. Also I have that coin, first silver coin I've gotten since the Peregrine was on one.

@@KMCA779 Not quite. HMS Warrior became HMCS Warrior, Canada’s first aircraft carrier. HMCS Bonaventure was laid down as HMS Powerful but was acquired by Canada before launching. It was Canada’s last carrier. Between these was HMCS Magnificent, formerly HMS Magnificent.

My grandfather-in-law was an aerodynamics engineer on the project!

Many would disagree because of Canadian propaganda surrounding the Arrow. The CBC created a national mythos about the plane which was completely unfounded. They did so I belive so that the public wouldn't focus on the massive corporate welfare surrounding the project.

What about the Seamaster?

Yes.

@@nickknight3271 definitely, I feel like there's a lot of great aircraft they might not be megaprojects like the Concorde and that but I definitely want to see them,

The Vulcan bomber was also build by Avro.

never heard of a second getting away but 206 may well have

@@peteryoung3122 Yes, one was the myth we all simply yearn to hear was true. Reinforced by the end of the CBC movie with Dan Ackroyd but... we just need to believe.

@@peteryoung3122 Some time back, one of the Arrow project engineers took measurements and said that the museum nose section was not 206.

It was reporter June Callwood who claimed to have heard an Arrow with the Iroquois engine take off before it was demo'ed...woke her out of a sound sleep. She was one non-Avro person who would have known the sound.

@@jamiecanivet247 June Callwood was a life-long family friend, and I heard her tell this story on several occasions. I never heard her lie. Ever. If she said she heard it . . . certainly her home was located right below the runway heading, not far from the airport.

Well, Dief was a dunderhead with a farm-implement mentality and didn't care about what happened to the futures of 15,000 aerospace workers in Canada.

Video is here. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pQJmn6z3h5Q.html

You just had to keep requesting it like I did. I guarantee you that his opening was addressed to me. LOL

I have read that the missing jet is in the UK

@@peterwade6067 let's hope so.

9 were fired there 1 has been recovered and 2 were fired in Virginia.

So you're from Picton?

Nope, but I grew up in Southern Ontario

They recovered the arrow at quintes isle camp park boat launch...was cool to watch the recovery

You used to live there.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aJwBHtYHIaw.html

"The Arrow" unfortunately is a work of fiction, that people consider to be fact. It helped create a mythology in Canada of the Arrow being Wundertech.

@@TheOwenMajor Your point? You see, I had never heard of the Arrow. then I saw the movie. Then? Well, then I used Google. So the movie serves a purpose. The fact that it's a "movie" is a dead give away. Or do you think that Hollywood EVER tells the truth in their movies? All movies are fiction. "Based upon a true story." Know what's "true" about said story? There really was a guy named "Fred." Everything else in the movie is fiction. So, watch The Arrow. It's a good movie.

@@anthonyhargis6855 It is a fun movie, however, a generation of Canadians have been taught it's content as fact. When you show a story based on real events you have a duty to tell the truth. However, the CBC used it as anti-American propaganda.

@@TheOwenMajor It's not that I don't share that thought, but it's an unrealistic thought. Hollywood has NEVER "told the truth." Not ever. And everyone is anti-American. Never doubt that either.

Quebec split so now the us is larger.

@@fademusic1980 is that your final answer?

@@fademusic1980 No, still taking money from the ROC....

Unfortunately, I have seen similar cases before. With that said, I am curious as to what the correct spelling is?

Favourite - always has been always will be.

@Chris Regman What on earth are you talking about lol. We are north American, but we are also a British Colony. So our correct way of spelling is British. Typical American opinion "American spelling is the only one that matters". I find that hilarious

@@RenshiErmine There really isn't a correct spelling. Its all based on where you live:)

@Chris Regman omg you are so wrong. Go home you ignorant peasent Edit: I use North American which is a more honourable title to use then just American. Let those simplistic southerners use 'Mrican all they want.

@@burnwermple1038 I assume you mean Quebec, not France?

Your point? Lots of American engineers had to move companies when their own companies failed or were bought out. Propaganda wants to convince Canadians like this was some sort of attack on our manufacuting when in reality most aircraft companies around the world were failing due to the lack of money after WW2. Turns out a country of 20 million couldn't provide the same funding as a country of 200,000,000, who would have guessed?

@@TheOwenMajor all of these arrow fanboys forgot (or never learned) the lesson the mercury program taught the test pilots - what makes your bird fly? FUNDS. canada was never going to maintain an elite aerospace program with a GDP 1/10th that of the US. the US hemorrhaged staggering amounts of cash during the cold war and did it gladly, on projects whos service lives often were shorter than one soldier's service contract. canada could never afford to spend like that, but that was what you needed to do to push the evolution of technology fast enough to bankrupt the soviet union.

You seem sad that they got jobs, or contributed to the advancement of aviation. Is the U.S. the enemy?

And in their space program.

The A-12/SR-71 were designed by American engineers Clarence Johnson and Ben Rich.

To be fair it WAS a great tragedy. It's believed that approximately 1 in 5 Canadians at the time were involved with it to some degree, be it the design, manufacture and design of new tech for it or supporting those who were. It took Canada from an aviation leader to a relative no one. We've had a few projects since then that recapture that spirit, even in aviation... But trying to imagine where we would have been if we'd kept that spirit alive and growing instead of just selling it to the US? That's practically a national past time.

that happened. The SAGE and Sparrow missiles that were to replace the arrow, ended up costing 2x more than the entire project would and was found useless. Where as the arrow project could have produced multi generational craft

@@sabrevanson4412 since ICBMS became a thing the intent of the arrow to fight off bombers became less of a concern. Maybe if they had a time machine and had gone into the future they may have made a different choice but they didnt. The Arrow was ahead of it's time as the F35 has looked to be the same thing except the US can actually afford to throw money at it which Canada couldnt

Nine models were shot into Lake Ontario.Two were shot off from NACA'S Wallops Island test area into the Atlantic test range.

@jerryg53125 provide proof.Langley was only used because it had a supersonic windtunnel that AVRO didn't have at the time. No need to use Wallops for flight tests, as AVRO was more advanced than NACA iin live telemetry.