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The BAD BOY of Operation Market Garden | General 'Boy' Browning 

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General Boy Browning has often been criticised for the failure of Operation Market Garden. What mistakes did he make? What is his story? And who, ultimately, should take the blame for the failure of the operation? Let's find out today.
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Sources:
Brereton, L. The Brereton Diaries: The War in the Air in the Pacific, Middle East and Europe, 3 October 1941-8 May 1945. Kindle, 2014.
John Frost, A Drop Too Many. 2009.
Max Hastings, Armageddon. London, 2004.
Robert J. Kershaw, It Never Snows in September. Surry, 2007.
Mead, R. General Boy: The Life of Lieutenant General Sir Frederick Browning. Kindle, 2010.
Martin Middlebrook, Arnhem 1944: The Airborne Battle, 17-29 September. 2009.
Robert Neillands, The Battle for the Rhine 1944. UK, 2014.
Poulussen, R.G. Lost at Nijmegen. 2011.
Cornelius Ryan, A Bridge Too Far. USA, 1974
Major General R E Urquhart, Arnhem. 1958.
Major General S Sosabowski, Freely I Served. Great Britain, 1982.

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28 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 1,6 тыс.   
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
Hey all! Time stamps 00:00 Intro 01:07 Browning's Life 12:44 Frustration 17:57 Market Garden 28:52 Criticisms of Browning 29:28 Criticism 1 31:06 Criticism 2 32:30 Criticism 3 33:33 Criticism 4 35:36 Criticism 5 38:24 Browning's Defence is Flawed 43:45 Decision Bibliography (Sources) Brereton, L. The Brereton Diaries: The War in the Air in the Pacific, Middle East and Europe, 3 October 1941-8 May 1945. Kindle, 2014. John Frost, A Drop Too Many. 2009. Max Hastings, Armageddon. London, 2004. Robert J. Kershaw, It Never Snows in September. Surry, 2007. Mead, R. General Boy: The Life of Lieutenant General Sir Frederick Browning. Kindle, 2010. Martin Middlebrook, Arnhem 1944: The Airborne Battle, 17-29 September. 2009. Robert Neillands, The Battle for the Rhine 1944. UK, 2014. Poulussen, R.G. Lost at Nijmegen. 2011. Cornelius Ryan, A Bridge Too Far. USA, 1974 Major General R E Urquhart, Arnhem. 1958. Major General S Sosabowski, Freely I Served. Great Britain, 1982.
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
In addition, 26:51 A Brief Summary of the critical events during Operation Market Garden
@jamesmcilvenny2294
@jamesmcilvenny2294 6 лет назад
I liked your video just for these time stamps, cheers
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
Glad you find them useful! Not every video deserves them, but I will include them if I think they're necessary.
@TheBrettarcher
@TheBrettarcher 6 лет назад
Talk on liddel hart a genius
@seandoran2209
@seandoran2209 6 лет назад
TIK - To many chefs, mission impossible!
@marcppparis
@marcppparis 6 лет назад
To blame the poles who weren’t there until the battle was basically lost is ridiculous. It’s like having a platoon armed only with rifles attempt to stop an armored division and then blame the failure on them being lousy shots
@marcppparis
@marcppparis 6 лет назад
If the rumors of the tanks in the Reichwald were true, putting everyone on the heights wouldn’t have mattered. They took the decision that guaranteed failure no Matter the outcome
@TGCRVT
@TGCRVT 3 года назад
Horrocks and Browning throwing Sosabowski under the bus was inexcusable.
@SNP-1999
@SNP-1999 3 года назад
Well said ! The accusation was so blatantly ridiculous, it is a scandal that it was obviously believed as it led to the end of Sosabowski's distinguished career. I am glad that the Dutch at least had the decency to put the record right, by honouring the general posthumously. Sosabowski joined the hallowed ranks of unfairly treated officers in British military history, from Dowding to Park, from Harris to himself, to mention just a few.
@thevillaaston7811
@thevillaaston7811 3 года назад
@@SNP-1999 Sosabowski had already been made an Honourary Commander of the British Empire during his lifetime. Montgomery criticized the work of the Poles during Market Garden. He did not blame them for Arnhem not being taken.
@bigwoody4704
@bigwoody4704 2 года назад
The Poles unlike Monty at least had the balls to show up,Bernard got scarce knowing he shit the bed yet again
@Prfactist
@Prfactist 6 лет назад
Who was to blame for the failure of Market Garden? I'd wager the Germans had something to do with it.
@LuvBorderCollies
@LuvBorderCollies 6 лет назад
Its not like the Germans were hiding from British intel gathering. Germans by that time knew the British high command incompetence would defeat or seriously hamper their own plans. So no need to hide in the bushes.
@organicdudranch
@organicdudranch 6 лет назад
see my comments for the truth above.
@RomanHistoryFan476AD
@RomanHistoryFan476AD 5 лет назад
Amazing ain't how quick people are to not even give much thought that just maybe the reason why the plan failed was due to the enemy actually reacting in a effective manner.
@AudieHolland
@AudieHolland 3 года назад
Damn Germans... Their divisions were like zombie units that could be cut to pieces but the remains would reassemble themselves into coherent, effective combat forces that would almost instantly go back into action, regardless of how much time the soldiers in these 'Kampfgruppe' had been working together before that time. Before I did any research at all into these 'Kampfgruppe,' I thought they were like small armygroups or batallions because they were so effective during the fighting at Arnhem and Nijmegen. Now, after having a little research (emphasis on a little), I think German Colonels and Captains were like: what, your unit got destroyed? You still got a few machineguns, do you? Hey you overthere, know how to fire a Panzerfaust? Sure you do, soon every mother and grandfather in Germany will know how to use them. Fine go with them, follow, don't rush ahead and keep your heads low!
@redserpent
@redserpent 3 года назад
@@RomanHistoryFan476AD That is the point of being a warrior. To expect that your enemy is capable of defeating you if you don't have your ducks in a row. That is the point of criticisms by all the comments, that the British Commanders had assumed the inferiority of the Wrmach High Command and unit commanders. The failure was born from sheer arrogance. Just another charge of the Light Brigade
@chrisjones2816
@chrisjones2816 6 лет назад
i wrote my dissertation on 'Market Garden' at university 10 years ago! i am so pleased that many of the key points that i raised were bought up in this video especially that about Gavin and the 82nd prioritising the heights over the main bridge! i feel vindicated in my conclusion! fantastic video and i will be watching more of them!
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 Год назад
Gavin initially did not prioritized the Heights over the bridge giving them equal priority. Lindquist, head of the 508 of the 82nd, was to move to the bridge via the Heights, which are on the way to the bridge, secure the Heights then move a battalion to the bridge immediately. No one was at the Heights, so Lindquist could send a battalion to continue to the bridge immediately without stopping at the Heights. It was when Lindquist of the 508 82nd missed the boat, expecting Gavin to tell him to move to the bridge, allowing the Germans to reinforce the bridge, that Gavin changed priority. He took all his men out of Nijmegen town giving it back to the Germans, sending them back to the Heights and the DZ.
@majorintel9623
@majorintel9623 11 месяцев назад
OK. So if the 82nd had taken Nijmegen, does that automatically mean the british armor could have reached Arnhem in time? I don't think so. Whatever, it was Monty's flawed plan, since he lost his mind when he was, as planned, no longer going to be CIC of ground forces.
@tomasdawe9379
@tomasdawe9379 11 месяцев назад
Had Nijmegen bridge been secured and defended 30 Corps, in my opinion, would have reached the south side of Arnhem bridge by the end of day 3. This is assuming that the Germans try to retake the bridge at Nijmegen and do not give up on that axis and concentrate on 1 ABD. To sum up 30 Corps would have been in time, but they might still have been too late.
@majorintel9623
@majorintel9623 11 месяцев назад
@@tomasdawe9379 It is an interesting scenario, if the 82nd had directly taken the Nijmegen bridge, then been met on the north side by the 9th SS Recon battalion, 10 SS infantry battalion, and the next day the Eulling battalion. The great unknown is what other forces the germans would have sent to Nijmegen to stop an advance on Arnhem. I assume they would have sent quite a bit, diverting some of the units they had instead used further south to attack the single road allied supply line. It was good defensive ground north of Nijmegen, especially on the main road. To the west there was more maneuver room, but hardly ideal with all the canals and dikes.
@tomasdawe9379
@tomasdawe9379 11 месяцев назад
@@majorintel9623 good point, also if the recon battalion had been mauled by the 82nd, Frost's battalion would not used so much AT firepower at the start of day 2 potentially allowing them to hold out longer. It really would depend on how the Germans react to the fall of the bridge at Nijmegen along with the result of any counter attacks there. It is one of the reasons I enjoy thinking on the operation, so many variables, what would have happened if any one of them changed?
@markgrehan3726
@markgrehan3726 6 лет назад
It's scary how much people's personalities play in these conflicts.
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
Someone has to make a decision somewhere (not just in the military, but in politics or business etc), and everyone's lives are reliant of those above making the right decisions. Then you see that those above you are just as flawed as everyone else, and it's about that point that you realise just how completely your life is in the hands of a bunch of idiots.
@Rustsamurai1
@Rustsamurai1 4 года назад
Precisely.
@mikereger1186
@mikereger1186 4 года назад
TIK - or out of thieR depth, as Cunningham seems to have been in Operation Crusader. Or just plain unwilling to fight *cough**cough*PIENAAR.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
@@TheImperatorKnight I would say that 'bunch of idiots' is unreasonable. It's more that given the high profile of these decisions, they have been put under the microscope for almost 80 years. They may have been well above average, but few people and decisions will look good with this level of scrutiny. If you look at 1940 and the Fall of France, Guderian, Rommel, etc., made some very questionable decisions, but they were lucky so are lauded as heroes, but a couple of bridges blown by the French and they would have been seen as idiots too. Hindsight is pretty amazing. In this case the options were: not launch Market Garden, war lasts into 1945; launch Market Garden, fails, war lasts into 1945; launch Market Garden, works, war ends in 1944. Given those options, launching Market Garden was not necessarily a bad option. The brutal reality is also that the operation resulted in many Allied deaths, but if it had worked, saved lives overall, Allied, German, Russian and Dutch.
@davidrendall2461
@davidrendall2461 6 лет назад
I had two relatives in Market Garden, Major William Conran RE, a road construction expert seconded to XXX Corps staff for Comet and MG. The other was Major Brian Urquhart of Brownings Staff. I knew both growing up and keen as I was on a military career I badgered them both for advice and stories. Bill was British Army from birth, he like all regulars was a product of his class, times and the slaughter of WWI, the highest form of criticism he could make of a fellow officer was 'maybe there was another option'. Brian was a hostilities-only idealist, who later became an advocate for the UN, he thought the UN should hold all nuclear weapons and control its own army. He could criticise senior officers, but, and I respect him enormously, post war he had a few political axes to grind and his story needs to be seen through those goggles. Something I've heard from both (they were unknown to each other until the 70s) is the success of market garden, the genuine opinion of German Panzer reserves and real reason the operation was launched. Both told me independently, so it was well understood by anyone who could read a map - "If it was only a quick right turn from Arnhem to the Ruhr, then it was only a quick left turn from the Ruhr to Arnhem!" The Ruhr had to be host to the best reserves on the Western Front, possibly the whole of Germany. The 2-3 day time limit on getting to Arnhem was forced on XXX Corps by the proximity of those reserves nothing else. This is where your 1,000 tanks could come from, but a tad higher north, across two rivers, and a few days late. This could be where Brig Hackett got his belief, shared with his officers pre-launch, that Arnhem was an interesting way to commit suicide. Gen Gale summed up its chances as worthy of resignation. Anyone trained to read a map and work out train time tables would have laid poor odds on survival at Arnhem beyond 36hours, without need for intel, photos or ULTRA. The Panzer fear at Arnhem was understood, genuine and obvious, but the hope was XXX Corps could get there first. And in fairness the majority of the German armour wasn't present on day one or even two. On Day 1, the 1st Airborne was held up more by snipers from Krafts force and MGs around Den Brink and the hospital. Only 3 Para met one SP gun en-route to Arnhem. Hardly a significant threat. If Son and Nijmegen had been taken on time, its not unreasonable given XXX Corps timetable they could've made it. Certainly the medium artillery would have got to the 1st Airborne's perimeter before the King Tigers came from the Czech border on Blitztransport. Regarding Brian's famous Panzer photos, I remember him telling me straight, the film was rubbish: He didn't brief Browning direct; he didn't argue with Browning, Majors don't do that with Lt Generals. He laid out ALL the intelligence he COULD to the Chief of Staff, a Brigadier, this Brigadier took it to Browning, this Brigadier told Brian to stop with the Panzer scare stories. Brian also wasn't sent on leave prior to take-off, he was never going to fly in. The reason had nothing to do with politics, stress or his earlier injury. We wouldn't know this until well into the 80s but he was the Airborne Corps ULTRA officer and wouldn't be risked in the mission. He was always going to be following up in the sea tail. Not long after Market Garden Brian was promoted to Lt Col and given a plum intel job rounding up German scientists. Hardly a censure from the top brass. He claimed he had photos of tanks, but these pictures have remained elusive to researchers. I admit we never discussed this (his brother was MI6, his cousins (my grandfather and his brother) were both SOE and war office we didn't talk about details in our family) but I think he lied to Cornelius Ryan. He said he had photos. We now know he had ULTRA, in the late 50s he could not tell Ryan that. I think the photos were a cover story. It also means Brian couldn't tell the Brigadier, Johnny Frost or anyone else what he knew and how he came by it. This has always been one of the problems of really good intel; how to share it. Divisions and Convoys had been sacrificed to secure ULTRA before Arnhem. Now for the true purpose of Market Garden, and why Montgomery was given all those resources. The single biggest issue for the Western Allies in September 1944 was opening the port of Antwerp. For this the whole of the Southern Netherlands had to be taken. I can remember Bill hanging his fingers over a map, along the Rhine, Maas and Scheldt so they formed a grabbing motion over the Antwerp approaches. You had to clear each river as far as the Southern ramp of Arnhem to secure Antwerp. This was Eisenhowers plan. The Northern ramp of Arnhem was unnecessary for this objective. Montgomery wanted Arnhem because that was his springboard into Germany. His longed for narrow thrust. Eisenhower wanted Antwerp to supply his wide front. This was the root of the blazing row between the two just before this battle. Yet everything up to the island between Nijmegen and Arnhem HAD to be taken if the Allies were to advance anywhere, anyhow in 1944/45. So Market Garden did achieve vital aims for the loss of two light infantry brigades. This is not a disaster. Both Bill and Brian said that part of the operation HAD to take place and HAD to be successful. The losses were less than some of the positional battles around Caen, less than British attempts to hold Greece, take Sicily, breakout of Anzio or destroy Monte Casino. These were harsh times, casualties were to be expected, the transport planes rated higher among the brass than the idle airborne in the UK. But did they have to go so far, was it vanity to send the British over the Rhine? Bill grudgingly agreed there might have been a better option than the springboard into Germany through Arnhem idea. Thats British Army for Monty was wrong. Brian's post-war opinions on the mission are well recorded. Brownings alleged 'Bridge too far' quote might have its roots in this conflict of objectives and may account for his tussles with Brereton. It may also explain what he was doing flying in on day 1. If his part of the Airborne Army was going to be sacrificed in a temper tantrum between his bosses he would have wanted to go down with it. Given a plan from Britains pre-eminent Field Marshall, a differing mission from Europe's Supreme Commander and unworkable boundaries by his immediate superior. I'm not convinced Browning didn't fly in with the sure fire intent of getting killed in action. It was a shit detail and he was a solider, what was he supposed to do? And still had the 101st and 82nd done ALL their jobs on day 1, the crazy British plan may just have worked. But I would bet all the money in my pockets Eisenhower would have cut Monty's supplies as soon as XXX Corps made it to Arnhem: on day 2 or day 9.
@jeffburnham6611
@jeffburnham6611 6 лет назад
@David Rendall interesting perspective you have on the operation, coming from someone (Brian Urguhart) who had first hand knowledge of the intelligence gathered prior to the operation. It's well known now the RAF Squadron 26 flew low level tactical recon and were the ones that took the pictures showing German Armor in the Arnhem area. It's quite possible he did have the photos. My question is, has anyone ever looked into their unit history to see if they also have pictures?
@davidrendall2461
@davidrendall2461 6 лет назад
There has been a lot of effort trying to find those pictures. The archives are empty but the majority of PR pictures were destroyed post war (there were a lot of them). I can't believe such important pictures wouldn't have gone into the keep pile. But what can you do? Most PR ops at this time went through RAF Benson, a few amateur historians have gone through their files and found no low-level flights scheduled for Arnhem. They came to the conclusion Brian was lying, without giving motive or reason. I think it much more likely they were destroyed or they were a cover for ULTRA. What I remember most talking to Both Brian and Bill is the true significance of this battle. Neither believed for one moment the Germans were finished before Christmas, it would have ben good to win everything, but what it achieved (opening Antwerp) was necessary. The movie was huge when I was young, on telly a couple of times a year. I read the book and would badger them for details as "It was the biggest operation of the war!" Both would gently remind me of the many operations prior to and post Arnhem. Bill's great moment was Dunkirk where he constructed breakwaters with abandoned vehicles to aid loading on the beaches. Brian's big story was the forcible return of the cossacks to Stalin which he was ordered to assist. I think that formed his post war career and distrust of authority. They both tried to warn me of the perils of taking orders and what supermassive events wars become. Bill showed be an example of staff work once: he had to assess how the single road to Arnhem would stand up to repeated tracked vehicle usage. Would it crumble? He worked out from maps and pictures where the faults were most likely be found. He worked out how to shore them up, where the sandbags would be found and how they would be transported forward. Where would the aggregate be found to fill them? Where would the men be found to fill them? Where would they sleep, eat, get into position? Where would you place all this stuff in the road plan so it wasn't buried behind the 25pdr shells, petrol, ambulances and boats. All had to be worked out if anyone was going to be a hero. We tend to forget this was but one mission in a long war. The hyperbole and sacrifice overwhelms the diligence and boring detail. Bill went on to work tirelessly over the next few months opening up Antwerp. That was a far bigger deal than Arnhem. Brian went on to scour Germany for SS on the run and top scientists. Both had fought elsewhere and Bill would stay in the army until the early 60s doing loads more fascinating things. 1st Airborne's 1,600 dead and 6,500 captured is a lot. few divisions took such losses in such a short time. But compared to Crete, Singapore, Sicily, Anzio, Goodwood, Epsom, these were equally destructive. and equally limited in success.
@thevillaaston7811
@thevillaaston7811 5 лет назад
@@davidrendall2461 'Crete, Singapore, Sicily, Anzio, Goodwood, Epsom'. Surely better comparisons with Arnhem would be Aachen, The Hurtgen Forest and Metz?
@davidrendall2461
@davidrendall2461 4 года назад
@@thevillaaston7811 I was trying to show it had been a long old war, with many disasters on the road to a good end.
@terencewinters2154
@terencewinters2154 4 года назад
.a novel bold plan corrupted by backbitings and ignored intelligence .
@ericmyrs
@ericmyrs 6 лет назад
I don't buy the 1000 panzer argument. If they had really thought that there were 10 panzer divisions worth of armor in a small forrest, any sane commander would have leveled the forest with heavy bombing, as this would have represented a significant chunk of all tanks on the western front. And why they didn't scout it, I have no idea.
@myroseaccount
@myroseaccount 3 года назад
Agreed I think this story is a smokescreen for serious disagreements between allied commanders that has either been made unavailable or was never recorded. 1000 tanks in the forest is clearly nonsense, and Gavin claiming that he cannot move on the bridge on the 1st day because of that is equally nonsensical. I think the Americans were unhappy with the operation from the outset. They didn't think it was the right thing to do and didn't like that the British 1st Airborne was sent into Arnhem. For whatever reason 82nd Airborne basically sat on their arse on the first day and didn't move to send anyone to take the bridge. That doomed the operation. Yes there were plenty of other mistakes, misteps and contingencies but nothing that would have caused the failure of Market Garden. The failure of the 82nd Airborne under General Gavin to take Nijmegen Bridge doomed the operation. But in an era where "band of brothers" single handedly won the war in the West stating the obvious wouldn't go down well.
@ellisjames7192
@ellisjames7192 3 года назад
How could they hide that many tanks and support personnel without somebody seeing them?
@myroseaccount
@myroseaccount 3 года назад
@@ellisjames7192 The Germans could not have mustered 1000 tanks into a single attacking force in 1942 or 1943 and even during Kursk had at most around 2700 tanks on the whole Eastern front in that time. At the battle of Prokorovka, the great Tank confrontation at Kursk, involved around 800 German tanks in one of the greatest Tank confrontations in history surpassed only by 1941 Barbarossa and later the Yom Kippur war 1973. The idea there were was an Army group of 1000 tanks on the western front is as absurd as the idea Gavin could have defended the grosbeak heights from such a force with 1 airborne division even if such a German force existed. It was clear the war was already in its final months by the time of operation market garden. Germany had been defeated by Soviet forces in the East who were rapidly advancing across Poland, and with the Balkans overrun, the Red Army was about to pounce on Eastern Germany in the Months ahead. This is nonsense on stilts. The question remains why Gavin made the reports that he did and why Browning didn't call this out. I think TIK explains that. Browning's CO was an American who had already threatened to remove him. As to Gavin's actions having elite troops trained for rapid movement and action sat on their hands for the first day in a stale defensive position where everyone from Private up to and including Montgomery's tennis partners knew speed was critical suggests more than incompetence. This was a British operation that would have been quite stunning had it come off. It would have allowed the British to advance across the low countries and provide a bridgehead to launch 30 Corps into Northern Germany. All while the Americans are bogged down in the south. Allowing the operation to wither and fall back after some gallant heroics was preferable from an American viewpoint. We often forget the politics and maneuvering when looking at these events seeing only heroic individuals doing their best is often a very naïve assumption. Yes I think Gavin was told to hold rather than move on Nijmegen in the full knowledge that would lead to a withdrawal of troops from Arnhem and the failure of the operation. Hence the bullshit story about the 1000 German tanks as a reason had to be found for holding an entire airborne division in place. Throw in the usual "it was confusing, and we were unsure what German forces were bearing down on us from the forest" and the question becomes a what if. The simplest explanation is that the Americans didn't want a stunning and extraordinary British led operation to be successful and allow British forces to capture the low countries and invade Germany before they did. The British forces could have got to Stettin and occupied the entire Ruhr before the end of the year. It might even have been the catalyst that precipitated and early German surrender to the British.
@davidhimmelsbach557
@davidhimmelsbach557 3 года назад
@@myroseaccount Adolf PROMISED his western generals "a thousand tanks" and Bletchley Park found out about his assurance. German war production in 1944 totally eclipsed all that had gone before. So DON'T use 1941 metrics -- or even 1943 metrics. Speer had the numbers going through the roof -- right up until SEPTEMBER 1944. Yeah, the Krauts were building as many tanks in a month has they had in six-months earlier in the war. Next, the real worry for any parachute commander is not tanks -- it's HALF-TRACKS. They sport more machine guns... and their crews will have their heads on a swivel. Infantry HATE, HATE, HATE, attacking half-tracks for this reason. Adolf could've easily had 1,000 half-tracks sent to the fighting... given enough lead time. What Bletchley had picked up on was Adolf's pitch about his grand November counter-offensive against VIII Corps in the woods. He had visions of 1940 on his syphilitic brain. Lost in all of the posts: the ONLY terrain that could support tanks was where Gavin focused his attention. His PRIMARY mission was to protect Browning -- his hero. If an Allied 3-star ARMY COMMANDER had been lost to the enemy -- that would've been the end of Gavin's career. Due to his rank, he was able to be read-in-on Ultra. No-one else was. So the 1,000 tank tale HAD to have come from Bletchley and HAD to have become knowledge via Browning to Gavin. Gavin's account was spewed out to protect Browning's reputation AND the existence of Ultra. Plainly, Browning let Gavin in on the Big Secret. And, since you're asking: YES, Adolf DID promise his generals that they had priority #1 and that 1,000 tanks were to be given to them for the up coming counter-offensive. So Bletchley was not really wrong. They did not have a date-certain to go along with Adolf's pledge. He also pledged some crazy amount of fighter-cover, too. The counter-offensive was supposed to occur in November. In the event, it was launched in mid-December. The delay was primarily about GASOLINE. And yes, panzer production was insufficient to properly equip his attack force. For example the 12SS was never brought back up to strength. Elsewhere on YT there is a whole lecture on its problems. They were vast. The 12SS had been gutted by the Canadians and the fiasco of Falaise. Browning was in charge NOT Gavin. It was HE who had received the estimate from Bletchley -- and Bletchley's track record was towering at this point. The reason that Gavin was not so concerned about the magic bridge is because he believed British intelligence estimates -- and reasoned that 1st Airborne would entirely prevent German reinforcements from coming down from Arnhem. BTW, the solid ground was GERMAN ground. He, Gavin, had no Dutch spies telling him what was up in Germany, proper. He also figured that since this turf was the FIRST German soil to be occupied by any Allied force, that a stiff reaction just had to be in the cards. In this he was RIGHT. It's just that the Krauts couldn't do a very good job with an instant-outfit.
@bigwoody4704
@bigwoody4704 3 года назад
@@davidhimmelsbach557 hello DH good to see your posts again
@michaelmccabe3079
@michaelmccabe3079 6 лет назад
Wow. I didn't expect you to produce a 50-minute video so quickly. I thought your excellent Monday videos would be primarily 5-10 minute nuggets of history and enlightenment. Your ability to produce marvelous results so rapidly is Rommel-like. ;)
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
They will primarily be 5-10 minute videos, but with the occasional longer video popped in. I'll be honest though, it took a lot of effort to get this done in time, which is why there's no music in the video. I simply ran out of time!
@jeanniet1947
@jeanniet1947 5 лет назад
My Father was in 12th Devons 6th Airborne. He was a pegasus bridge and Arnham. He was one of A company who went in by glider to the bridge .He was injured at pegasus bridge in Ranville while recovering injuries, he qualified as a sniper a number one shot. He was then sent to Arnham. He told me that he was one of the men who laid the tape to the river when they withdrew. His name was Alfred Patrick Secker A company 12th Devons
@thevillaaston7811
@thevillaaston7811 5 лет назад
If your father was in 1th Batlalion of the Devonshire regiment why would he have been at Arnhem?
@Iguazu65
@Iguazu65 Год назад
Thanks for sharing your family story. They were a different bred. What they achieved and the cost of that are both hard to properly appreciate, other than never forgetting their sacrifices.
@tigermoth7580
@tigermoth7580 Год назад
He cannot have served at Pegasus Bridge and served in Op. Market Garden.
@tigermoth7580
@tigermoth7580 Год назад
@Alice_Long because the 6th Airborne Division didn't go to Arnhem. The 1st Airborne Division went to Arnhem in September 1944. The 12 Devonshire was part of The 6th Airborne Division
@brucemacallan6831
@brucemacallan6831 6 лет назад
I find both Gavin and Browning responsible for the Nijmegen cock-up. (which to my mind ultimately cost the succsess of Market Garden) However I do not think for a second they believed there were 1000 enemy vehicles near Nijmegen. They would have assumed the report grossly exaggerated. But even if it was a thenth of the reported vehicles, that would be 100 enemy AFV's, - A threat indeed. However as stated in the video, both of them (instigated by Gavin) neglected to carry out the crucial task of taking the bridge immediately.
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
A quick note - Browning may not have actually said 'I think we might be going a bridge too far' at all, which is why I said "supposedly". It is disputed, and apparently the evidence for it came after the battle, which is why it probably wasn't said. However, it is a cool phrase.
@donaldhill3823
@donaldhill3823 6 лет назад
I always find it interesting that phrases attributed to various people are often difficult to prove due to lack of direct witness. It makes you wonder was this or that said by these various people or was it said by someone else after the fact or maybe a complete miss quote of what was actually said. Alas only the fly on the wall knows for sure.
@grahamt33
@grahamt33 6 лет назад
It is simple human psychology that someone who failed would attempt to make an exculpatory statement about events that he, Browning, was a major player in. In other words, "it wasn't me, it was the plan and the decisions taken at HQ by e.g Bretherton therefore, if you want someone to blame, blame someone else, I wasn't there in terms of command, tactics or strategy" I am grateful, TIK, for your comments about Sosabowski and his brave Poles who were made scapegoats for others failings- the comments here and on your main video indicate many others denigrate the Poles, even to the point of alleged cowardice[see my correspondence with John Burns, where I prevailed against him]
@oldtanker2
@oldtanker2 6 лет назад
I find this amusing too. The US 1st Infantry Division has been trying for years to claim credit to a senior divisional officer making the statement on OMAHA beach to the effect of "2 kinds of soldiers on this beach, those who are dead and those who are going to be dead" or words to that effect. The officer in question never came forward to claim to have said those words so the division has claimed that he was KIA. Those words have been repeated in movies too. I served 4 hitches with the 1st division between 74 and 96. I recall being told at least 5 different officers credited with saying that!
@Magpie4000
@Magpie4000 6 лет назад
It's seems ridiculous to me that in an operation framed around capturing a bridge over the Rhine anyone would think that bridge "one too far". It's the entire point of the operation.
@Magpie4000
@Magpie4000 6 лет назад
"Sosabowski and his brave Poles who were made scapegoats for others failings" - I'm not convinced they were. I think this is yet another misquote of history. I've never seen anything specific from any of the Allied commanders blaming The Poles for anything
@EastEndEnquirer
@EastEndEnquirer 3 года назад
Have read many accounts of Market Garden and this by far the best explanation for its failure. Your conclusion about Gavin and Browning makes complete sense and how experienced commanders could really believe there were 1,000 Panzers parked in a forest at this stage of the war is inexplicable. It also baffles me how airborne troops could be expected to defend any area from any large force of German armour. That is not what airborne does, no matter how good the quality of the men and the American and UK airborne were some of the best troops of the whole conflict. Thank you very much for your analysis and taking the time to produce this history lesson.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 Год назад
There was no armour at Arnhem or Nijmegen on the jump day.
@JohnnyNorfolk
@JohnnyNorfolk Год назад
Do not forget Brownibgs boss was an American.... entry about him from wiki Brereton, however, made key changes to the Linnet plan, first in restricting glider missions to "single-tows", that is, one tug aircraft towing one glider, whereas Linnet had contemplated a double-tow mission. A combination of poor weather, extensive resupply missions to the pursuing Allied armies, and anticipation of last-minute airborne drops cancelled virtually all training for IX TCC in August, as a consequence of which Brereton believed that untried and unpracticed double-tows were too hazardous. Brereton also decided that the operation, protected by massive air support from the RAF and the AAF, would take place in daylight, to avoid the dispersion experienced during both the British and American airborne landings in Normandy in June. His decision was finalized when weather and other delays pushed back D-Day for the operation to September 17, which was the dark moon. Finally, the shorter hours of daylight in September caused Brereton to refuse authorization for two lifts per day, and as a result of the limited number of troop carrier aircraft, the air movement of the Army required three consecutive days to complete.[63]
@laurancerobinson
@laurancerobinson 6 лет назад
Saw this come in my notifications last night and was chuffed to have something to listen to on my way into work. Market Garden has taken its place in pop culture history and very often is used by many as an anglophobic stick with which to prop up American superiorism. Your documentaries have helped shine some light into the misconstrued reality surrounding the operation and fairly deals out criticism and blame. I have to ask, you often quote books, do you use sources from the Archives or elsewhere as well or just use off the shelf books such as biographies, memoirs etc?
@ronaldruiter7899
@ronaldruiter7899 6 лет назад
I have been watching your video's for the last two weeks now. They are so clear and well brought that I would like to compliment you... They have become a must see for me! Keep up the good work. Greetings from the Netherlands.
@nspr9721
@nspr9721 6 лет назад
A skilled, talented and passionate young modern historian / historiographer - who gets down in the dirt and does his research! Thank you!
@willb8684
@willb8684 6 лет назад
sasobowski was more then just blamed he lost everything because of browning...it was criminal.
@paulszymanski3091
@paulszymanski3091 5 лет назад
@John Cornell Because he knew his job very well and he had to deal with incompetent idiots.
@paulszymanski3091
@paulszymanski3091 5 лет назад
@John Cornell it is your opinion. He built the brigade. He designed the training and he had first had experience fighting Germans in 1939. It was personality clash. He also jumped with his men and fought side by side with them.
@paulszymanski3091
@paulszymanski3091 5 лет назад
@John Cornell It is a clash of cultures. The English and Germans have superiority complex. They will never ever think of Poles as equal to them. It is a fact that I encounter numerous times. This blows up the minute I criticize idiotic ideas and I prove them wrong. You also forget one critical fact about 1st Polish Brigade. It was formed to use it in Poland to aid the Home Army. The brigade was dropped in Sept. 1944 and it was clear to all Polish forces that they had been f... by the allies. The Warsa Uprising was at its last legs. These soldiers and Sosabowski had to agonize since August. It is written all over how they suffer emotionally. They saw their city being ravaged and they knew they will never see the city again. Keep in mind that Warsaw was Sosabowski's home garrison before WW II. His son was fighting in Warsaw Uprising. He lost his eyesight during the fight. You have no idea what toll it takes on you. His son was a true hero and a legend equal to his father. So, yes, you are wrong because you do not know full story. Here is a documentary which explains some of it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-b9em1kEg8C0.html
@paulszymanski3091
@paulszymanski3091 5 лет назад
@John Cornell Again chcek the facts. The banner of the brigade was made in 1942 in occupied Warsaw and smuggled into England. I spoke to many veterans from the brigade and all of them said one thing. They would have rather die in Warsaw Uprising than fightin in Arnhem. The fact is that the brigade was formed to aid the Home Army.
@paulszymanski3091
@paulszymanski3091 5 лет назад
@John Cornell One route was thrught Italy. The Home Army had a special section that built field airstrips around Warsaw. Polish airforce was ready for such a dropp. It was possible to do it. There was also a plan to move fighter planes into Poland. The whole plan was not as crazy as you may think.
@princetonburchill6130
@princetonburchill6130 4 года назад
Back in the 1970s, I had a workmate who was a veteran of the British Parachute regiment who dropped on D-Day, Arnhem and across the Rhine. I didn't realise at the time but we had been paired-off so that I could act as his minder because of his PTSD. Something unknown to me back then. I had to drag him off a roof parapet once as he was about to jump off it - a drop of about fifty feet onto a concrete floor. He was bathed in sweat and trembling all over which scared me witless and left me confused. The root of his angst was that he had fought with distinction in three major battles, witnessed so many of his comrades killed and wounded while he escaped without so much as a scratch and lived to tell the tale. Survivor guilt? He never mentioned the war at all in the six months or so before he retired early on health grounds except once when he spotted me reading Cornelius Ryan's famous paperback account of Arnhem - then he let rip! He told me that his regiment feared that the war they had been training for incessantly for several months past would be over before they had a chance of a crack at "Gerry". The delay was beginning to affect unit morale and it was his firm belief that the Arnhem drop - a bridge too far - was specifically intended to let loose British Airborne against the Germans before unit discipline broke down completely. I am not expert in such fine military details though I do have an interest in military history, which is the reason why I am here, therefore, I cannot enter into any arguments defending my old long-departed workmate's personal belief and conviction that Arnhem was designed to fail to satisfy the vanities of the Allied top brass.
@bigwoody4704
@bigwoody4704 3 года назад
Good Post
@seth1422
@seth1422 6 лет назад
There is one criticism that this video does not discuss. There seems to be evidence Browning countermanded the last promising attack to take the bridge before it was too well reinforced. On the morning of the 18th (D+1) Gavin ordered all of the 508th, save one company to move on Nijmegen bridge. At 10:00 a regiment strength German counterattack struck that company, and Gavin ordered the entire 508th to rush back and charge the drop zone to prevent the afternoon reinforcement drops from being massacred. (At this point, Warren's battalion was recalled from its fighting in Nijmegen.) After the drop was complete (around 14:00) Gavin then moved to repeat his move from that morning. The 82nd's operations log then records the following. "At 1530, 18 September, General Gavin had a conference with General Browning at which General Browning asked for the plans for the ensuing 24 hours. General Gavin stated his plan for the night of 18-19 September was to seize the bridge North of Nijmegen using one battalion of the 504 and in conjunction with the 508 envelope the bridgehead from east and west. General browning approved the plan in general, but on giving more thought, in view of the situation with XXX Corps, he felt retention of the high ground South of Nijmegen was of greater importance, and directed that the primary mission should be to hold the high ground and retain its position west of the Maas-Waal Canal. Therefore, General Gavin assembled the regimental commanders and issued an order for the defense of position." The operations log is a contemporaneous account recorded by division staff. And it clearly suggests that Browning explicitly countermanded an attack on the bridge by four battalions the night of D+1. This was probably the last chance for lightly-armed paratroopers to take the town alone, before it was too well reinforced. Doesn't some blame accrue to Browning based on this?
@robertthompson6346
@robertthompson6346 Год назад
This was a very comprehensive and enjoyable video - clearly a lot of hard work to produce - so thank you for creating and putting it here. In the search for a blame victim(s) I was reminded of the last scene in the film "The Charge of the Light Brigade" where the General staff do their appraisal - a battle that took place 90 years before Arnhem.
@jimoliver2163
@jimoliver2163 4 года назад
I said this after watching your detailed video on Market Garden. I know some commanders emphasized the importance, and insisted on, aggressive patrolling to gather information and capture prisoners for interrogation. This expedient and crucial step apparently was not taken. Given Gavin's his fear that there were 1,000 tanks in the forest it is gross negligence to not send patrols to assess the treat, if any.
@barryolaith
@barryolaith 4 года назад
"Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan".
@MarioMario-vn3fx
@MarioMario-vn3fx 6 лет назад
The treatment of Sosabowski is unforgivable. Browning and Monty thinking he was in the wrong for criticizing them? Sosabowski as you pointed out save 1st airborne from being annihilated. The 2,000 men they saved in Arnhem would've been captured or killed. Now my own view is while Browning is not the sole person to blame, he does share some of the blame for the failure.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Sosabowski *did* refuse to take his troops in. Hence why he was disciplined.
@Malas13
@Malas13 6 лет назад
Where did he refused to take his troop ? To Oesterbeek ? 10km from objective, 5 days too late, having only pontoons to cross Rhein River under heavy fire ? Who did he refuse too - Browning ?
@Xukti
@Xukti 6 лет назад
You know what's worse? When the Dutch Queen and government rehabilitated Sosabowski's name in 2006 and honored him and the Polish Paras, the British tried to stop this from happening. British officials still refuse to admit the man was blamed and stripped from position without a good reason.
@tomaszskowronski1406
@tomaszskowronski1406 5 лет назад
@@Xukti Of course they did. There's never a more vindictive cunt than a Brit scorned.
@jimboll6982
@jimboll6982 Год назад
​@@Malas13 You. poles lost your country and want to blame everyone but yourselves. The British gave you a platform to fight from. But you want to dictate. Why would they listen to a bunch of failures. Your airforce failed but somehow you believe you won the BOB. Laughable
@jancoil4886
@jancoil4886 5 лет назад
I read the book on Browning-not bad. A word in defense of Gavin is needed. Data on the 1000 tanks came from US Intelligence. Gavin could not ignore that. Even if the 1000 tanks turned out to be 100 and even if they were just a mix of Panzer II, III IV tanks, that is a problem for an airborne unit. Allied intelligence was correct about SS Panzers in the Arnhem area. The report of tanks near Njimegen could also have been correct. Allied commanders had no way of knowing for sure until their troops were on the ground.
@BA-gn3qb
@BA-gn3qb 6 лет назад
Everyone seems to forget about the small toll bridge. 30 corps had to request a special drop of enough nickels and dimes to cross. That money drop was delayed due to the banks closing early for their annual cricket match.
@davidhimmelsbach557
@davidhimmelsbach557 6 лет назад
@B A While amusing , the war was not going to stop for tolls. The usual toll was paid in blood , anyway.
@BA-gn3qb
@BA-gn3qb 6 лет назад
David Himmelsbach - Monty's plan, should have been Monty's blood.
@pennypenland2390
@pennypenland2390 6 лет назад
General Browning comes across like the US General McClellan. Very good at organizing and training soldiers but poor leadership in the field.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Browning was not a field general. He dropped in to rubber-neck.
@yujinakamura3316
@yujinakamura3316 6 лет назад
As to your final conclusion, I completely agree with you. Thank you very much for making huge complex questions plainly simple.
@caravan0123
@caravan0123 6 лет назад
TIK, this is the best channel I’ve found on RU-vid. It’s always a pleasure.
@donfelipe7510
@donfelipe7510 6 лет назад
It sounds to me like inter ally rivalry was very important. Browning was concerned about losing his job to Ridgeway and he positioned his HQ with an American unit so that his information was based upon American actions and what they were doing.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
Probably more that he may have felt Arnhem might not have been secured, and so was as far forward as he felt prudent to avoid capture.
@nobbytang
@nobbytang 6 лет назад
It doesn't matter it was a glorious defeat ...it doesn't matter that the armoured German SS battalion fighting the paras ( light troops ) treated them as equals and sharing doctors and medical orderlies etc etc...it doesn't matter that 6 of the 7 bridges which were the targets for market garden were taken and held ....what matters is that it tied up and focussed German attention which in itself shortened the war ....hail the paras , the American airborne and the guards armoured units amongst others !!!
@bertdennebos8934
@bertdennebos8934 6 лет назад
I was born in Arnhem in 48. So I took an interest in the fighting there and why Frost could not hold the bridge for 48 hours more. Despite all de failures and delays at Nijmegen, the Arnhem bridge could have been held if the operation of the 1st Airborne had been better planned and executed. Read the book "Arnhem"written by the general Urquhart. First: the landing zones where 20 miles from Arnhem bridge. Nice space to land without losses, but undefendable. Second the radios did not work.Contact with England could not been made nor between the units an HQ of Urquhart. Third : with exeption of Frost, who went along the Rhine tot de Bridge, the rest had tot fight through a city. ( compare with the problem at Nijmegen for XXX corps). Urquhart could not get in contact with his units fighting in the outskirts of Arnhem. He went tot look for himself and was then surrounded by Germans and could not get back tot his HQ for two days. His second in command did'nt know what tot do. The main error was not tot land south of the bridge. They did not because of fear for heavy losses at the landing. So with exepcion of Frost, the entire division only got as far as Oosterbeek and never got tot Arnhem, and when driven back could not contact England for change in dropping zones. Nearly all supplies fell in German hands.. Conclusion. Yes there are errors made in Nijmegen which caused delay, but the real disaster was the bad preparation and execution of 1st Airborne division : Not the soldiers, but the general are to blame. Then they tried tot blame the Polish brigade. Well thanks tot te courage and skils of these man a lot of the 1st Airborne could escape over the Rhine. Personally knew a Polish soldier of the Polish Brigade who had fought in Arnhem and was after the war married with a Dutch women. He never talked about is, but when he died his son found his personal things from the war and the medal he got years after when finally the Polish where rehabilitated.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
In general, the radios did work. The ones that didn't were the rather large long-range ones dropped with a few US Army operators into the LZs at Arnhem (10 miles out, not 20). It's somewhat fictionalised in the movie, maybe also Ryan's book. The radios for infantry use were short term, so sometimes it was hard to keep a full network going with 5 mile range, but that was the best that they worked. The artillery had longer range ones, but on different frequencies.
@TEGRULZ
@TEGRULZ 6 лет назад
I know it's been a while now, but what was the reasoning given for 6th Airborne Division never being committed, or 17th Airborne Division as well? To me, Arnhem ought to have had two divisions there just based on the sheer level of importance overall.
@davidrendall2461
@davidrendall2461 6 лет назад
6th Airborne had been badly mauled in Normandy, they were used as normalise infantry until early August. When they were sent home to reform. This isn't an excuse, they could have put two brigades together and formed some part of the plan. There was also the 2nd Parachute Brigade in Southern France, less than seven hours flying time from the UK. They had only recently been on ops and had been engaged heavily but were still a viable force and highly manoeuvrable. With some urging they could have made the 6th Airborne up to full strength in less than a day. You also had the 52nd Mountain Div complete and idle in the UK. They were glider trained and air transportable. If the airfield at Grave had been put into service this division could have been flown in very quickly. Some parts could have been glider landed on day 1. There is no reason the British and Poles couldn't have put together a force of five parachute and five Glider/Air Mobile brigades. So roughly equal to the force used in Market Garden. But how to get them there? The problem with this plan is Interservice rivalry between RAF and British Army. The RAF was about bombing things, not serving the needs of the Army. From re-armament in the late 30s to D-Day the RAF acquired close to 100,000 aircraft of all types. Of that total the number of purpose built military transports was ..... 50*. The gigantic effort producing bombers for the RAF had almost completely stripped them of a transport arm. And the RAF was happy with that. For its first two years of operation the British Parachute force had maybe a few dozen converted Whitley bombers capable of dropping a single battalion at most, and then only slowly and spread out. By the time of Sicily the RAF could just about lift a brigade on their own, but most of that was through Gliders. In Normandy the RAF were still limited to a two brigade lift using converted Stirling and Albermale bombers not purpose built transport aircraft, dropping was slow, disorganised and limited in space. The Stirling was a massive aircraft, over a short range at low altitude it could out lift the Lancaster in terms of weight, But couldn't drop as many parachutists than the half sized Dakota. There was a demand for transport aircraft in the middle east, far east and parachute units from 1941 onwards this isn't armchair hindsight. It wasn't an impossible task either. UK aircraft industry manufactured almost 12,000 Wellington bombers. Half that number were used solely for training after they became obsolete from 1942. Another 2,300 Stirlings and 600 Albermales were produced even though both were considered obsolete in their bombing role prior to service. Engines are the bottleneck in aircraft production. Counting half the Wellingtons, just look at the number of engines in that group: 22,400 Bristol radials all bought and paid for. Enough to power 11,200 aircraft of a modernised bombay or dakota class transport. At 18 soldiers per aircraft thats 200,000 seats. If all available Gliders were towed at the same time, that could be as many as 350,000 seats for airborne troops. Even if you dropped twice the weight of each solider in supplies thats over 100,000 men, far more capacity than you could ever need. A transport force half this size could have been produced with ease and would have dramatically altered operations in Sicily, D-Day and Market Garden. Night or Day. Without this resource British Airborne got used to thinking in limited operations or to rely on the Americans. Airborne plans had to be two Brigades in strength or follow US procedures. Ie. Daylight. There wasn't a culture of big drops or even air mobility until Market Garden. 6th Airborne should never have been left in the field so long after D-Day. That it was shows the limited scope and pull of British Airborne ambitions. Why didn't we ask the Americans to swap the 82nd for a reformed 6th Airborne? I guess politics had something to do with it. My toys, my rules. Had the 1st, 6th, 52nd and Poles been lifted in together on D-Day from the fantasy transport fleet, Caen may well have been taken in that first 24hrs. The Airborne would have commanded great respect, had more clout at court and maybe got pulled out of Normandy earlier. With a three division drop/landing around Caen on D-day the allies could have been in Belgium by August or even July '44. Market Garden could have gone in at night, powered by a Corps HQ experienced in big drops, with less concern about transport losses. Whether the 6th Airborne would have got distracted by the Groesbeek heights is another matter. *50 Bombays the last delivered in 1940. The RAF in India received some Dakotas in 1942, but they wouldn't have a single operational Dakota squadron in Europe until after D-Day. I have excluded limited runs such as the 14 DH Flamingos and five long range Liberator transports. Also excluded are the civilian airliners pressed into service.
@seegurke93
@seegurke93 6 месяцев назад
Thanks Tik :) trying to catch up with all the market garden videos
@snookums01
@snookums01 6 лет назад
A quick Googles will tell you just how formidable an obstacle the Groesbeek Heights would have been. It is a whopping 34 meters above sea level. As for Browning and the tanks, it's funny how a man who sees photographs of several tanks and other armored vehicles can dismiss them out of hand as "wrecks, unfit for duty" but buy wholeheartedly the "1,000 tanks" lurking in the woods past Groesbeek.
@apudharald2435
@apudharald2435 6 лет назад
Steve 56 in the conditions of the Vale of Guelders, 34 meters is the Himalaya as the rest of the place is below sealevel. It is commanding high ground for the area. Still, I don't think it was the right place to deploy Gavin at all. He should have been south west of Nijmegen, not south east.
@jdg6668
@jdg6668 5 лет назад
Actually the Groesbeek Heights are 100.8 meters that is 88 meters higher than the area around it. A perfect place to put artillery observers to close the roads into Nijmegen.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
If he thought the tanks were in the Reichswald then given information the Allies had about how few effective panzer units the Germans had left he was unlikely to believe they were also simultaneously in Arnhem. It's like a 3 cups game. If you think the ball is under the middle cup, you aren't going to claim it's under the middle cup and the left-hand cup.
@lllordllloyd
@lllordllloyd 2 года назад
Your criticism of Mead is intetesting. Reminds me of Michael Senior's "Haking: A Dutiful Soldier" in which he defends one of the most incompetent men ever to wear a Lt General's badges, and does so poorly. I think some historians just think it is fun to defend clowns for the sake of being able to write provocative phrases on the book's cover: "a radical re-assessment", "correcting the record", "unfairly criticised".
@DEeMONsworld
@DEeMONsworld 5 лет назад
I watched a Bridge to Far then started reading more and ended up here. An excellent analysis with more detail facts than I can absorb in one watching. One caution, as facts are obvious, in the pressure and fog of war, second guessing too much to assign blame, is fraught with risk. I would prefer to say mistakes were made from the first inception of the operation. Contention between Ike and Monty was no secret the fact that they essentially argued for 5 days over its' merit set the failure in motion. your attention to detail is however admirable. and the facts you present are an excellent resource.
@TheWoodstock2009
@TheWoodstock2009 6 лет назад
Great stuff as always! I'd agree with you on the primary blame being on Gavin. It shouldn't really have been Browning's responsibility to tell him to...well... capture his objective as quickly as possible. However as the senior commander he really was quite "worthless" in the hour of need, and the treatment of the Poles is, well, just childish.
@JDAeroVR
@JDAeroVR 6 лет назад
Really enjoy your videos. Great to be able to discuss these actions as there are so few of us who care to spend the time discussing. My issue is with the Reichswald..... if there were rumors of "1,000" armored vehicles hiding there... and this intelligence came from SHAEF... how could they allow Montgomery to move forward with the operation? I know SHAEF gave Montgomery the go ahead and the supplies... and then essentially washed their hands of the deal. Of course getting to those V2 sites was paramount, which is why I don't argue using the airborne corps to support Patton in getting over the Rhine. Patton's armor would have had much more in terms of attacking axis in getting to the airborne divisions. XXX Corps was in a tough and near impossible job from the start in asking the advance to go down a single road. The intelligence failures at the top as usual played the crucial part in the failures of an action... before the battle was even fought.
@wordsmithgmxch
@wordsmithgmxch 6 лет назад
Monty. He conceived of the plan, and the political screws were applied to Ike to accept it. It was a Rube Goldberg contraption with too many moving parts.The failure of any would bring down the whole. The idea of advancing 60 mi along a ten-yard front, trailing 120 mi of flank, is just nuts. Staging five successful, simultaneous coups de main equally so. Monty was a bold, romantic dreamer; also a complete egotist who felt personally compelled to vault the Rhine and knock Jerry out of the war by Christmas. You need people like that, but you also need to rein them in. (Churchill's [not so] "soft underbelly of Europe" -- in two wars -- comes to mind; also Haig's "big push" to break through into open country where the cavalry can operate.) But once you've sold a monster plan, and mandated buy-in by all subordinates, those subordinates are confronted by all sorts of niggling realities -- and also a panicky desire not to be the one who screws everything else up. You have hard, inconvenient intelligence that is ignored, and rumors of enemy forces that are credited. You have planned resources that are really non-existent or cunningly withheld. You have sudden concerns about the fatigue of your men, and landing areas declared temporarily unsuitable. You have commanders who consume transport to be seen as commanding from (not quite) the front. You have CYA and you have grandstanders. And you always have the weather. If the plan was truly messed up by a momentary loss of focus and initiative by one (or two) commanders, why, Monty was uncharacteristically modest in claiming that it had been 90% successful! I'd give him 98%! At least! But any plan that fails even at 90% performance is a bad plan, too fragile for the real world -- let alone the real world of war.
@jbrowne9381
@jbrowne9381 5 лет назад
Someone once wrote that Operation Market Garden failed because so many things went wrong all at once: the weather, the "unexpected" Panzer corps, the loss of the bridge over the Son, etc. The best rebuttal for this was, "No, Operation Market Garden failed because it required so many things to go right all at once." Any difficulty along the way would spell disaster. It seems Monty (and others) were more concerned that the operation take place than they were concerned that it would be successful. His inability to admit defeat--years later he still claimed to have never lost a battle--demonstrates how incapable he was of self-reflection.
@timhewlett1327
@timhewlett1327 3 года назад
Griffon Anderson What political screws were applied to accept it? Montgomery 'felt personally compelled to vault the Rhine and knock Jerry out of the war by Christmas.' Why do you claim that?
@wordsmithgmxch
@wordsmithgmxch 3 года назад
@@timhewlett1327 Political screws? Well, Churchill and Roosevelt were both strong backers of Market Garden. Is that political enough? Personal compulsion? Well, according to most accounts, Monty was an ambitious, self-aggrandizing egomaniac. To hear him tell it, he was the only commander with any brains; he was the only one who could win the war. Totally opposed to Ike's broad-front strategy, he tried to maximize the role of his own brigades. This was not only a Brit-Yank struggle, by the way: he also diverted resources away from other Brit/Commonwealth forces, e.g. in the Scheldt estuary, neglecting sound logistical planning (securing the port of Antwerp) in favor of trying to deliver a bold, decisive thrust himself But he overreached, his plan miscarried, men died. He never admitted his failure, though, maintaining even in his later years that he had "never lost a battle".
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
@@jbrowne9381 XXX Corps arrived in Nijmegen on time. If Son had been captured intact, then they would have arrived well ahead of schedule, and then maybe it would have worked. So either Son or Nijmegen going right could have meant success. I can't really blame the 101st at Son - that was bad luck given a valiant attempt to take the bridge. And the 82nd managed to grab 2 out of 3 bridges.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
@@timhewlett1327 "Montgomery 'felt personally compelled to vault the Rhine and knock Jerry out of the war by Christmas.'"
@donaldhill3823
@donaldhill3823 6 лет назад
Obviously, Gavin choosing to ignore the Bridge was critical but Browning being right with him left him no excuse for not commanding Gavin to take the bridge. I can not for the life of me figure out how the Poles can be blamed for the failure considering that by the time they arrived there was little chance of changing the course in the battle. As the battle was conducted not taking that Bridge becomes the last straw in many mistakes but the one they could not recover from.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Browning thought a general, like Gavin, would be moving on the prime target, the bridge. Browning was shocked when he saw what was happening and ordered the bridge to be taken.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
John Cornell I do believe Browning was not a part of the initial jump. By the time he landed the 82nd men should have been already on their way to the bridge, under the command of a general, General Gavin. But they were not moving towards the bridge. The bridge was not defended. No barbed wire, ditches or dug in guns, etc. Just 10 men on it. As Frost said they could have just walked on it and took it.
@jaaksootak318
@jaaksootak318 6 лет назад
A Bridge Too Far is my favourite movie and Operation Market Graden is one of my (I hesitate to use the word "favourite" for an event where people die in large numbers) battles that I am most interested in. I think the biggest thing the movie missed was the Groesbeek heights. That would have given a whole different flavour. Also, what do you think about the criticism if XXX corps? They seem to get accused of stopping and drinking tea and being generally incompetent. This seems to be the US depiction of British forces. In my opinion they did a pretty good job of pushing up one highway where they were being constantly ambushed and their supply lines overstretched. But they were forced to turn from a fast exploitation force into a force fighting heavily defended enemies in Nijmegen, a role for which they were not suited and which they wouldn't have had to fulfill had the Nijmegen Bridge been taken earlier.
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
Thank you! You just gave me an idea to make a video on XXX Corps issue ;) not sure why I didn't think of that!
@kmcd1000
@kmcd1000 6 лет назад
XXX Corp had a crap job. The is no way you can have a major ground operation relying on just one road with no way to maneuver. Way to easy to have supply lines cut. Failure was in the plan itself. Ike should have not allowed it to happen.
@caelachyt
@caelachyt 6 лет назад
This plan hinged on "thunderclap surprise". Ferrying in the troops over several days was anathema to that. Far too many corners were cut in the planning.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Jaak Sootak XXX Corps hardly put a foot wrong. They got to Nijmegen just ahead of schedule. When they were there they had to start fighting the Germans in street fighting and then plan and seize the bridge. They also sent a battalion of the Dorsets across the Rhine to Arnhem. XXX Corps had 20,000 vehicles. They had 9,000 sapper engineers with bridge equipment in 5,000 trucks.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Jaak Sootak _"Also, what do you think about the criticism if XXX corps? They seem to get accused of stopping and drinking tea and being generally incompetent. This seems to be the US depiction of British forces. "_ After WW2 the facts proved the British were highly professional and the Americans at times just amateurish, especially at the top brass levels. At the Battle of the Bulge, two US armies had to be put under Montgomery's control as they lost control and did not know what to do. At the beginning of 1942 Eisenhower was just a colonel. In 1939/40 Portugal had a larger army than the USA. They were short of well trained and educated top brass as their armies expanded into millions. Many of their generals would not have made it to general in the British Army. Mark Clark comes to mind, Simpson another. Since then the US media, and their ex military men, have attempted to put themselves in a favourable light - mainly by castigating and sneering the British, who outperformed them. Montgomery was the finest general in WW2 - he never suffered a reverse running through 9 countries commanding multi-national armies. To read many Americans he was an incompetent buffoon when facts show us the opposite. It is best to look at facts not people with agendas.
@dukwdriver2909
@dukwdriver2909 Год назад
I am English. I find it disgusting that free Polish Forces were ever thought as failures in official reports. Half their country was the first to be occupied in WW2. See Battle of Britain fighter squadron results, Cassino, etc. They fought the Nazis with a passion to help us, we betrayed them in 1945.
@1davidpeter
@1davidpeter Год назад
Thanks for this fascinating video touching real history, even at the risk of talking about British people. They won’t hear any of this in our schools. Personally I blame Richard Attenborough and dirk Bogarde and their obvious bias in favour of any critic of their country, ensuring that a fair hearing is almost impossible.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 Год назад
Market Garden was an American planned operation. The failure points were the US 82nd & 101st not seizing their prime bridges immediately.
@bigwoody4704
@bigwoody4704 8 месяцев назад
Johnny has monty been getting rough in the tub with you again? you're making a lot of funny noises.Or are you dizzy inflating you dates again
@Wallyworld30
@Wallyworld30 6 лет назад
Great a new Video! I didn't get a notification so I just re-clicked the bell.
@caelachyt
@caelachyt 6 лет назад
Very well done, but I still have to disagree with your conclusion. How does dropping 8 miles from Arnhem bridge not trump a few hours delay in Gavin sending troops to Nijmegen bridge as the critical error in this operation? Gavin was under Browning's direct supervision and had his approval. The 8 miles also allowed for the other critical issues to affect the probable success, such as the radios and 1st Airborne resupply. It's pretty much insane to drop paras that far from their objective. Even if there were only 50 tanks in the Reichwald, anybody commanding a partial, already spread out airborne division, would have to consider that a priority. Moreover, how was Gavin or Browning to know 10th SS was going to be sending significant forces down to that bridge straightaway? In a nutshell I would say the overriding problem with this operation was that, "there were too many chiefs and not enough Indians". Ike and Monty should have had a much more hands on role in this affair considering it was dealing with complex combined operations between two nations and several branches of the military. In the end when you expect XXX Corps, 101st Airborne and 82nd Airborne to have to stick their neck out in a big way to save 1st Airborne, it's probably not going to happen to the extent you hope. (Such as air commanders worrying about how tired their guys would be.) Commanders usually set not getting their unit wiped out or severely mauled as first priority. That would be my first priority. It takes an overall commander to set these bickering self-interests straight in an operation like this. If the plan was better, it would have worked. It almost did anyway, but I can't single out Gavin or Browning for this. In the end one could say Gavin put "his guys" first, and Browning didn't. They cut too many corners in the planning to assure victory.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
caelachyt Gavin was in charge of the 82nd who were tasked with seizing the bridge. Browning dropped at the same time, but was in charge of 3 generals in the operation on the 1st day. He could not communicate with them and was also setting up his HQ. The first hours are critical. Gavin sent about 40 men to the bridge of around 3,000, after a 3 hour delay. Gavin should have ensured a substantial amount of men moved on the bridge, the prime target, *immediately.* If he did so the operation would have been a success.
@Caratacus1
@Caratacus1 6 лет назад
Gavin sent no sizeable force to the bridge until 22.00 in the evening when a Para company took a look at it and bumped into the SS battalion who had just arrived and were deploying. Considering this was his main objective which he was ordered to seize 'with thunderclap surprise' it's shocking that out of an entire airborne division he only made such a token gesture with a few hundred men so very late in the day. There were no defenders of note near the bridge until the SS arrived near nightfall, and Gavin's error caused a 36 hour delay and a lot of loss of life for an objective they could have walked over earlier. There were no sightings of tanks in the Riechswald, the Dutch underground and air recon had seen nothing, and the whole panic was caused by Gavin's G2 officer who later retracted his statement and instead concluded that at most there could be a few hundred German communications troops in there. Gavin chose to stick with the first ridiculous report though, and Browning went along with it as well. I suspect that the pair of them stuck with the first ludicrous G2 assessment not necessarily because they believed it, but because it suited their own agendas. 36 hours delay and an unnecessary pitched battle was easily enough to end the operations chance of success. I'm not sure I agree that a commanders first priority is to look after his men, especially a WW2 para commander. Those guys (and their men) were famously willing to take chances to get their objectives taken otherwise the paras would be mopped up in due course if they just sat there behind enemy lines.
@T.S.Birkby
@T.S.Birkby 6 лет назад
SuperCaratacus Gavin's orders were Groesbeek then Nijimeen, read the operational order. Besides it's 12km from LZ T of the 508th to Nijimeen Bridge. What's your ETA of them reaching the bridge and securing both sides against KG Henke and further reinforcements. Also critical first few hours, go find Urqhart tell him his divisional staff will be looking for him for the next 2 days
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
ETA? Less than 3 hours.
@T.S.Birkby
@T.S.Birkby 6 лет назад
John Burns it takes 2 Para five hours to cover the same distance. If I use that same standard, the 508th would have clashed with 9th SS Reece Bn around the bridge before last light.
@CharlesvanDijk-ir6bl
@CharlesvanDijk-ir6bl 6 лет назад
Signals, the Dutch Telcom workers made available all of the telephone networks available to the allies. But the allies were just not interested. Instead of blowing up railway lines the railway workers went on strike. But apart from a boy looking out of the window, nothing else was mentioned of the Dutch underground. All that Sean Connery had to do in a Bridge too far was to make use of the telephone boot in the street. But I suppose it was not in the script.
@jefferydraper4019
@jefferydraper4019 Год назад
Dirk Bogarde who played Frederick Browning in A Bridge Too Far said that Browning received a bad rap for his role in Operation Market-Garden. Bogarde in WW2 was actually part of the staff around Browning and knew the general.
@daguard411
@daguard411 4 года назад
Of the errors of this operation, thanks for the through analysis and presentation.
@BoerChris
@BoerChris 5 лет назад
Thanks for an interesting and very informative video! It seems to me truly bizarre that Browning (and others) should dismiss well-founded intelligence regarding the Panzer divisions at Arnhem, yet obsess over a 'ghost' Army Group in the Reichswald. If such a formation had existed, with 1,000 serviceable tanks, the threat should have been enough to cancel the entire operation. After all, this would (I think) have been a stronger force than everything the Wehrmacht had thrown into the Normandy campaign. Prioritizing the capture of the Groesbeek Heights - by lightly armed paratroopers - would have had no effect whatsoever and the axis of advance would have been irrevocably cut. To me, this demonstrates severely muddled thinking. You cannot argue on the one hand that the advance is opposed only by scratch forces to justify its ambition, while on the other hand giving credence to a hug force threatening the right flank.
@gregoru98
@gregoru98 6 лет назад
Great work, TIK.
@rangefinder3538
@rangefinder3538 6 лет назад
EXCELLENT ,CONCISE AND VERY WELL PRESENTED.
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
Thank you!
@NeilFLiversidge
@NeilFLiversidge 6 лет назад
Thank you. I thoroughly enjoy your videos and find your insight and arguments highly credible.
@oldtanker2
@oldtanker2 6 лет назад
Love how you revise history. Are you by chance related to Monty? Is that why you try to place the failure on Market Garden at everyone else feet? Here are a few facts for you. 1: Always have 3 to one odds in your favor in the attack. They received intel that they would not have those odds at Arnhem and in fact that the British and Polish airborne troops, not at all armed to fight tanks were sent in anyway. You can blame the failure on Ike. He not only should have refused to allow Market Garden to proceed IMO he should have sacked Monty in France. IMO Monty insisted on this attack for 2 reasons. 1st was people were questioning his actions. Complaining that he was too timid. Was he trying to erase that criticism? 2nd was like Patton he just loved seeing his name in the news! For the most part Monty was a brilliant planner. Once the battle was joined he lacked the ability to be flexible to changing situations. That is what set Rommel apart from the crowd. Once the battle was joined he could react to changing situations in the blink of an eye. Patton was good at that too. Ike should have had Monty in charge of his G2 (planning staff). Heck with Monty in charge of G2 and Patton in command of the ground forces they could have conquered the world!Now one should keep in mind that Monty being as timid as he was wasn't really his fault. Churchill was having commanders relieved for losing battles they couldn't have won not matter what. Once relieved they were done. Monty was driven to succeed. Failure was not an option. So he spent more time making sure he wasn't going to be beaten than he did on winning.Most folks miss the fighting done by the Russians. But Monty nor Stalin won WWII. Neither did Patton or Ike. WWII was won on the US factory floors. While Germany at their best was producing 12,000 tanks or aircraft a year the US was producing 12,000 a MONTH! The battle of the Atlantic wasn't won when the convoys could avoid the wolf packs. It was won when American ship yards started producing ships faster than the Germans could sink them! It was won when America could build combat ships fast enough that Jeep carriers could roam the Atlantic in hunter killer groups while others provided coverage for the convoys. The hunter killer groups were to late to make much of a dent in the German Uboat fleet. But production had reached a point that those ships could be used in such missions. Heck because US factories/ship yards were not under attack the US was able to support landings in Normandy, the allies launch a summer offensive in Italy, land in the Marianas and invade southern France all in the space of 3 months. Lets not forget that both the US and British forces were still engaged in the China Burma area all during that time too. I don't care how many men you have. If you can't provide them with the tools of war they can't fight. Neither Russia nor England had the ability to produce enough to win. While the US only used about 45% of it's industrial ability to supply the war effort.Kinda like today. US citizens claiming that corporate greed moved jobs offshore. What really happened was after WWII was over only one industrial nation could provide the goods the world needed and wanted. The US. Sometime in the mid 70's most of the waring nations had recovered to the point where they could start exporting again. All of a sudden US manufacturers had competition. Competition that did not have US minimum wage laws. Got cheaper to import goods than producing them ourselves. Simple greed did the rest. I want, I want it now, and I want it at low enough prices that I can afford something else!Rick
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
The US faced little armour in their sector but still failed to take St.Lo. Caen was not a priority target, more a nice to take target.
@oldtanker2
@oldtanker2 6 лет назад
Thing is the 6 pounder wasn't an assault weapon. Had Monty and his minions listened to intelligence Market Garden would have been canceled. Great plan if all they were facing were little boys and old men. But failing to listen to intel of that magnitude? We have much better manpac anti tank weapons today and they still don't like the idea of pitting light infantry against heavy armor. The manpac anti armor weapons from WWII left a whole lot to be desired. But trying to use the 6 pound gun in the attack? You have to set up, try to lure the enemy in close enough then move it and do it all over again. Now had they been able to drop on the bridge, set up a defense? Sure then they might have had a chance. But when they decided that they would have to fight 8 miles to the bridge the 6 pound gun was no longer going to be effective in an attack. Again, the plan should have been canceled or modified. Most people seem to forget that most of the British airborne failed to even make it to the bridge. Then yell because the US 82nd had trouble. Before the British forces linked up a light infantry division was facing at least 2 armored units or at least a brigade in size plus supporting infantry backed up by heavy artillery. Again, had the original intel been good it would have been OK. But when the Germans moved in seasoned Panzer units into the area the whole situation changed. Why do you think that they made every effort to keep heavy German armored forces at bay the first 3 or 4 days after the landings in Normandy? It's really hard to attack armor, especially armor fighting in the defense with infantry. Light or airborne infantry is even in worse shape. At least regular infantry has some armor support plus heavy artillery. LOL the " who Americans turned to in the Ardennes"? Lets see, the first major counterattack was by US forces! Patton was the one who relieved Bastogne. Monty was supposed to attack south to close a gap and trap Germans trying to escape but he failed to do so (same song different dance). On Jan 18 1945 because of Monty trying to claim credit for the victory in the Ardennes Churchill addressed Parliament and announced in no uncertain terms that the “Bulge” was an American battle-and an American victory. After taking command of the American forces given him (Monty) "He immediately fell into a familiar pattern, failing to act spontaneously for fear of not being sufficiently prepared. Montgomery was afraid to move before the German army had fully exhausted itself, finally making what American commanders saw as only a belated counterattack against the enemy." Churchill agreed. I never claimed any American general was the best in the war of all allied nations unlike many from England. I think it has more to do with embarrassment of having to be bailed out once again. Gotta have something that was the best. Heck England lost most of one generation in WWI and a large part of another in WWII. The British people have to be admired for standing up to Hitler alone for a s long as they did. Can't really yell to loud about the French soldiers as some people do. Many fought bravely. What was wrong was the leadership. The Poles were just outclassed in leadership, equipment and in training. Heck, Dec 1941 the US was totally unprepared for war. And when the US first went on the offensive there was a lot to learn. Then a lot of our folks thought we knew it all. England came up with a lot of gadgets that we laughed at that proved to be very effective. What US troops called funnies. I'm not claiming that we had better generals. I'm claiming that Monty was way overrated! With the way heads rolled in the early days Monty was as someone else put it "more concerned with not losing a battle than he was with winning one". For a while there it didn't take much for Churchill to sack a commander. He (Monty) too was much like Patton. Both knew that they were in the right place in time to earn a place in history and were much more concerned with how they would be viewed than they were with the conduct of the war. But I will say it again. WWII was not one by a single country on the battlefield. It was won on the factory floor and in the ship yards. Rick
@oldtanker2
@oldtanker2 6 лет назад
Caen was a priority target because city's key position along the Orne River and Caen Canal as well as its role as a major road hub. Add that to how close it was to the invasion beaches.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Caen was not worth expending men on to take when Germans were in the field. If Caen could be taken easily then yes, but heavy resistance and Germans in the field, no. Taking cities consumes heavy resources. Monty said it was not that important a target. He was right. His armour took on the German armour destroying over 90% of it in the west - around Caen. Dutch intelligence and SHAEF said no armour was in or around Arnhem. They were correct. The tanks were brought in from Germany. Not one para was attacked by German armour on the 1st day. The first German tanks were late on the 2nd day and repelled by 6-pounders and PIATS. The 6-pounders were defensive weapons to hold the bridges until XXX Corps came along. If the 82nd had seized Nijmegen bridge immediately XXX Corps would have reached Arnhem by about noon of the 19th - D-Day was the 17th, without meeting any German tanks. They would have met German tanks outside of Arnhem as they came in from Germany. By then fighter-bombers would have joined in. All the paras had to do was hold the bridges, with no armour around, for 45 hours. The paras at Arnhem held the bridge for over 3 days, facing German armour on the last day capitulating on the evening of the 20th, just as the first XXX Corps tanks rolled over Nijmegen bridge - too late now. The paras at Arnhem faced Tigers, impervious in frontal attacks by 6-pdrs, although they knocked a number of them out.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
oldtanker2 Patton was an average US general promoted to superstar status by the US media - the US never had any exceptional generals. Montgomery said Patton would be good as a Corps commander. *Patton at Metz advanced 10 miles in three months.* The poorly devised Panzer Brigade concept was deployed there with green German troops. The Panzer Brigades were a rushed concept attempting to plug the gaps while the proper panzer divisions were re-fitting and rebuilt after the summer 1944 battles. The Panzer Brigades had green crews with little time to train, did not know their tanks properly, had no recon elements and didn't even meet their unit commander until his arrival at the front. These were not elite forces. 17th SS were not amongst the premier Waffen SS panzer divisions. It was not even a panzer division but a panzer grenadier division, only equipped with assault guns, not tanks, with only a quarter of the number of AFVs as a panzer division. The 17th SS was badly mauled in Normandy and not up to strength at Arracourt in The Lorraine. Patton's Third Army was almost always where the best German divisions in the west were *NOT.* ♦ Who did the 3rd Army engage? ♦ Who did 3rd Army defeat? ♦ Patton never once faced a full strength Waffen SS panzer division nor a Tiger battalion. In The Lorraine, the 3rd Army faced a rabble. Even the German commander of Army Group G in The Lorraine, Hermann Balck, who took over in September 1944 said: _"I have never been in command of such irregularly_ _assembled and ill-equipped troops. The fact that we_ _have been able to straighten out the situation again…_ _can only be attributed to the bad and hesitating_ _command of the Americans."_ Patton was mostly facing a second rate rabble in The Lorraine. Patton was neither on the advance nor being heavily engaged at the time he turned north to Bastogne when the Germans pounded through US lines. The road from Luxembourg to Bastogne was pretty well devoid of German forces, with Bastogne being on the very southern German flank. Only when Patton neared Bastogne did he engage _some_ German armour but not a great amount at all. The Fuhrer Grenadier Brigade wasn't one of the best German armoured units, while 26th Volks-Grenadier only had a dozen Hetzers, and the small element of Panzer Lehr (Kampfgruppe 901) left behind only had a small number of tanks operational. Patton did not have to smash through full panzer divisions or Tiger battalions on his way to Bastogne. Patton's armoured forces outnumbered the Germans by at least 6 to 1. Patton faced very little German armour when he broke through to Bastogne because the vast majority of the German 5th Panzer Army had already left Bastogne in their rear moving westwards to the River Meuse. They were still engaging forces under Montgomery's 21st Army Group. Leading elements were engaging the Americans and British under Montgomery's command near Dinant by the Meuse. Monty's armies halted the German advance and pushed them back. In Normandy in 1944, the panzer divisions had been largely worn down, primarily by the British and Canadians around Caen. The First US Army around St Lo then Mortain helped a little. *Over 90% of German armour was destroyed by the British.* Once again, Patton faced very little opposition in his break out in Operation Cobra performing mainly an infantry role. Nor did Patton advance any quicker across eastern France mainly devoid of German troops, than the British and Canadians did, who were in Brussels by early September seizing the vital port of Antwerp intact. Patton repeatedly denigrated his subordinates. ♦ In Sicily he castigated Omar Bradley for the tactics Bradley's II Corps were employing ♦ He accused the commander of 3rd Infantry Division, Truscott of being _"afraid to fight"._ ♦ In the Ardennes he castigated Middleton of the US VIII Corps and Millikin of the US III Corps. ♦ When his advance from Bastogne to Houffalize stalled he criticised the 11th Armoured Division for being _"very green and taking unnecessary casualties to no effect"._ ♦ He called the 17th Airborne Division _"hysterical"_ in reporting their losses. After the German attack in the Ardennes, US air force units were put under Coningham of the RAF. Coningham, gave Patton massive ground attack plane support and he still stalled. Patton failed to concentrate his forces on a narrow front, committing two green divisions to battle and inadequate reconnaissance resulted in him stalling. Patton rarely took any responsibility for his own failures. It was always somebody else at fault, including his subordinates. A poor general who thought he was reincarnated. Oh, and wore cowboy guns. Patton detested Hodges, did not like Bradley disobeying his orders, and Eisenhowers orders. He also hated Montgomery. About the only person he ever liked was himself. Read _Monty and Patton: Two Paths to Victory_ by Michael Reynolds
@WelshRabbit
@WelshRabbit 6 лет назад
You, Good Sir, possess the extraordinary combination of great talent as a military historian and an engrossing video story teller. BRAVO! -- a thumb's up and new subscriber here. It's been a happy day for me discovering you. To borrow a line from Charles Dickens, I say, "Please, sir, I want some more."
@michaeljane954
@michaeljane954 2 года назад
Thank you for this... Its nice to see someone at last studied the facts therefore able to share the truth behind this operation. It is so easy for armchair generals who fight the war on Monday do not have the full facts of the battle. As stated during his planning, Gen Gavin (82nd Airborne Div) was concerned with the German Armour in the Reichwald area, therefore putting his main effort onto the high ground over taking Nijmegen Bridge. Hence the hold up of 30 Corps advance to Arnhem. Gen Brereton was being influenced by his transport commander (Williams) concern with fatiguing the pilots with doing a one day lift. A personality clash with Generals was so evident in this Operation.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 2 года назад
Gavin's scouts determined there was no armour on the thick forest to the east. They were fired on at the road they were patrolling skirting the forest. The heights were between the LZs and the Nijmegen bridge. If you take the LZs you take the heights.
@bigwoody4704
@bigwoody4704 2 года назад
No they didn't you revisionist rube,nothing in their field orders or scouting reports mentioned this .It was only upon arrival they realized troops could be there as Dave mentioned it was on the German border. If Monty was an actual Field Marshall like Walter Model he would have shown up - a failed marsh mellow was more like it
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 2 года назад
​@@bigwoody4704 Rambo, a quiz. Name the company of the 505th that reported the Reichswald was _"empty"_ and the trees too thick to allow tank operations? 20 points for the correct answer.
@bigwoody4704
@bigwoody4704 2 года назад
your lies have been so badly battered about it belongs next to one of Monty's military plan
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 2 года назад
*BZZZZT!* Wrong answer. Rambo, the name the company of the 505th that reported the Reichswald was _"empty"_ and the trees too thick to allow tank operations, was.... 🍾🎈🎊 *Item company* 🍾🎈🎊 Zero points Rambo, zero. Better luck next time.
@mattholland8966
@mattholland8966 6 лет назад
If they truly thought there might be a heavy number of tanks in the Nijmegan area. The operation should have been scrubbed. If those tanks were real they would have destroyed the airborne and kicked 30 corps right back to their starting point. So the logic is truly flawed.
@dustinfrey3067
@dustinfrey3067 5 дней назад
I have a question, and it may be a stupid question. In every video I've watched on the failure of Market Garden, the bad intelligence about a large number of tanks located in the forest around Osterbeek heights is mentioned as a contributing factor. TIK, you make mention of it several times and say that both Gavin and Browning should've known better. That, it wasn't realistic to believe the Germans had a tank force that size in late 1944. But Im curious if it's possible that the size of the tank force was exaggerated. But not the existence of a large tank force itself. And there is only one reason I ask this question, the battle of the bulge. The sources I have found claim Hitler gave the official order to begin preparations for the offensive on September 16th, 44. Just one day before operation Market Garden. I've also read a couple of sources that claim some of the tank forces had already been told to begin repositioning before the official order to prepare was given. So, is it possible that a large tank force had been located in the forest outside the Osterbeek heights before being given orders to reposition in accordance with upcoming offensive preparations? We know about 1400 tanks, and assault guns took part in the battle of the bulge. With tanks alone totaling about 1000. So, maybe there weren't 1000 tanks in the forest surrounding Osterbeek. But is it possible there was a fairly large tank force, none the less?
@WatcherMovie008
@WatcherMovie008 6 лет назад
I thought it was Montgomery who many (including Eisenhower) believed that led to Market Garden's failure. After all he did suggest to Eisenhower that Belgium was only being defended by reserve units, young boys and old men which should finish the war by Christmas. And his plans for MG led to many resources going to other generals (including Patton and Bradley) to be diverted for Monty's plan. It was huge and drastic failure for the Allies and unknown if its true, but Eisenhower was believe to have never once listen to Monty's ideas again due to the failure of Market Garden's objectives.
@crinoflitsuki1730
@crinoflitsuki1730 6 лет назад
But wasn't Major General S Sosabowski the scapegoat of the operation?
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
Yes. Watch the full video (specifically, Criticism five 35:36)
@JosipRadnik1
@JosipRadnik1 6 лет назад
@nick sambides jr. - I think you mix something up... Sosabowski was the scapegoat - Montgomery, Urquhart, Gavin, Eisenhower all had their share of responsibility - thats not the same. Although I think Montgomery probably helped to shift the blame or at least did not protect Sosabowski in order to not become the scapegoat himself and I think that constant battle of egos in the allied high command was the predominant factor in this decision. Following TIK's narration and concerning other popular rumours, it's quite likely that Montgomery felt that he could not blame Browning because of Brownings good relations to Churchill, the RAF was out of question too as he already had powerful enemies there and putting the blame on Gavin or anyone from the american side could have stirred up further dissent based on national prestige and rivalry - so the only senior high ranking officer that could be blamed without challenging powerful forces within the allied command structures was Sosabowski. If Montgomery wasn't under pressure himself I doubt he would have supported this (if he did). this of course, is just another wild guess of a late born armchair strategist - bear in mind ;-) @TIK if you read this: 1. Great work man 2. seriously: GREAT work maaan!! 3. Would be interesting to hear/read some of your thoughts about a possible scenario where Ridgeway would have at least lead the american contingent including nimegen or the airborne operation as a whole. It would be interesting to make an assumption wether he could have faired better. After all - it seems to me that Browning's instinct seemed not to be so far off initially but it looks as if he could not deal with internal pressure put upon him. He would not be the first commander that failed not because he lacked the ability to "see through the fog of war" but because he failed to withstand the psychological strain of having to command a battle. All the bad decision makings you describe obviously happened under influence of other people who seem to have been able to push him aside rather easily - not a good sign for a field commander (there's a reason why generals tend to be "uneasy characters" in general*). I don't know much about Ridgeway, but I guess he probably would not have been hampered by any of the internal skimrmishes Meade describes in regard to american relations toward Browning. After all, It doesn't take a genious to see the flaws in the decisions taken such as delaying airlifts, shifting the Arnhem landing zone too far away or ignoring your primary mission goal in order to prepare against an imaginary attack. All those decisions - or Brownings failure to oppose them seem to stem from a lack of assertiveness rather than lack of judgement per se. Maybe Ridgeway was just about as equaly able as a strategic planner but better suited to get things done the way they needed to be - and be it only for the fact of facing less opposition - what do you think? *"generals in general" - isn't that a great phrase for a non english speaker? :-)
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Nick Sambides Jr. Nothing wrong with radios. It was high iron content in the local soil. Montgomery? I fail to see where he is to blame. He came up with the concept which the First Allied Army leader, Brereton, an American, thought was brilliant. Monty was even overruled - he wanted Kasel to be the town on the Rhine to take, not Arnhem. Monty had little to do with the planning and zero with the execution. If you blame Monty you have to blame Eisenhower equally. But neither of those two are to blame as the plan could and should have succeeded despite some flaws in the planning.
@davidhimmelsbach557
@davidhimmelsbach557 6 лет назад
@JohnBurns -- incorrect. The British recently tested those radios. Yes, they still had such radios in their possession -- and they were taken by investigators to Salisbury plain -- in optimal conditions -- and it was soon discovered that they, the radios, NEVER had decent range -- PERIOD. With the best operators, in ideal weather, in ideal terrain with radios totally squared away -- they STILL could not transmit // receive much past 2.5 miles. This was broadcast by the BBC. They had a show that looked back, forensically, at many famous British battles. Time and time, again, they've discovered that the old historical version accepted for perhaps centuries is and was totally wrong. Famously, they discovered that the entire narrative about Agincourt was totally wrong. British long bows had NOTHING to do with Henry's success. The French actually just killed themselves. Strange, but true. The British Army simply did not test its radios for range -- certainly not First Airborne. On manuvers the boys never got that far apart... and these were tactical radios. Driven by batteries, they were power hogs, too. (All tube driven electronics just sucks down the juice, which is why the range was so limited. To get more range, they needed line power -- not batteries.)
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
David Himmelsbach A link on the radios? The earth around the region was a big problem. Even today some parts need cable for radio reception.
@RaduB.
@RaduB. 6 лет назад
Hello! I was considering subscribing to your channel as I noticed that the number of your subscribers jumped in the last month from 10000 to 15000, which could have been a bit frightening... So I decided to wait for a while. 🙂 But that would certainly not stop me to continue watching your videos. They are great! Greetings from Romania! 🇷🇴 By the way, I think that both Browning and Gavin are to be blamed. Defending against tanks would have been easier from the town of Nijmegen and capturing the bridge should have been a priority. I find it difficult to imagine what were they thinking.
@josephnardone1250
@josephnardone1250 6 лет назад
Having seen your video on Market Garden, including this one, must say that they are informative, entertaining and educational. Not having done research as you have and not having before me detailed maps of the landscape nor the first hand reports of the disposition of all the units and only having your graphics for reference and constantly questioning how many of the historian-writers had any military service, if any, and as a veteran who flew helicopters in the US Army and had military experience and experienced how many officers were not very bright, which has all ways amazed me that we won any war, and having worked with topographic maps in the USA and in school studying geology which I feel makes me knowledgeable, if not an expert, in using the maps, leads me to the point of questioning how this operation was planned by the field grade commanders and questioning everyone's competence. It boggles my mind that the natural terrain was not used to isolate enemy troops to make them ineffective or less of a threat to or to nullify their ability to re-enforce engaged units. From your graphics, it appears that the area was crossed by many rivers which would have made capturing bridges or crossing points imperative. Generally know that the land was low land reclaimed from the sea and had marshes which impeded tanks and troop movements. It appears that the first objectives would have been to secure or destroy all bridges and to force enemy units to have to cross marshes and swamps if any in the area. Why was Gavin instructed to take the high ground when his sole objective should have been to take the bridge from the very beginning? Even with a thousand Panzer in the area, if they were isolated across a river or confronted by a marsh, what good would they have been? To dismiss the intelligence, was gross incompetence. Even if wrong, why couldn't precautions have been in place treated as if such a battle would occur? Then there is the issue of the RAF's concern about AA fire. Understand the concern but weren't there fighter planes to contest the AA? Didn't the RAF encounter substantial AA flack on air raids over Germany? It again appears that the large scale of the operation was more an expression of insecure generals trying to prove their brass rather than military planning. Why couldn't smaller operations have been planned to secure points to isolate German units using natural terrain? All this would've made re-enforcing and re-supplying easier and less dangerous. A final point, all this is not hindsight but could've been deducessed at the time if competent men were planning the operation. Rather than deciding that taking the bridges be the primary objective, it might have been wiser to engage the German units directly is small battles while sending Allied units to take the bridges. As I said, without the documents and maps in front of me, it is difficult to comprehend the challenges involved but the idea that it could have been done in a better way is proven by the disastrous failure that occurred. From what I've learned, all the commanders were at fault and all were trying to avoid taking the blame for their incompetence and failures to save their careers.
@T.S.Birkby
@T.S.Birkby 6 лет назад
Operation Order WO171/366: QUOTE "US 82nd Airborne Division - will seize and hold hold bridges at NIJMEGEN and GRAVE with the same object in view. The capture and retention of the high ground between NIJMEGEN and GROSSBEEK is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task"
@jameshamilton4327
@jameshamilton4327 3 года назад
The real fault of Market Garden was not clearing the river to Antwerp. Regardless of the success or otherwise of Market Garden, the Allied armies still needed the supplies that only Antwerp could provide to go anywhere.
@timhewlett1327
@timhewlett1327 2 года назад
Not really...
@papapabs175
@papapabs175 4 года назад
Having listened to your superb documentary & read different books the first thing that came to mind was how did John Frost not get a VC for his leadership at Arnhem bridge 🤔. As for the operation I don’t think so much could have gone so wrong with the whole plan. The allies did not have one bit of luck, that coupled with some breathtaking incompetence led to so many deaths.
@gilltagg3352
@gilltagg3352 2 года назад
I am with you here, John Frost should have been recognised for what he did. My dad was still fighting for his bridge men medal in 1984 as he made the bridge with him. He was awarded it in the end.
@tigermoth7580
@tigermoth7580 Год назад
@@gilltagg3352 you comment doesn't make sense
@Karelwolfpup
@Karelwolfpup 6 лет назад
This is some quality work, TIK ^w^ good show that man ;3 In terms of initial planing and strategic conception, I'd say Montgomery and Brereton did the most to keep victory from being achieved with an overambitious plan that by their own SHAEF intelligence estimates and gathering effots placed a LOT more armoured units, disorganised or no but still capable and with veterans a plenty and heavy armour, within easy reach of the most vulnerable areas of the drop zone. The whole single road of advance and logistic smacks so much of an "eggs in one basket" ploy that it is sadly hilarious. Browning can cop it rightly for ignoring the presence of the panzers at this stage. However I'd say the politics between all of the key figures, including Sosabowski, can take a hit here at some stage for national bias trying to trump actual combat effectivity and the operation's success. When it comes to the logistics side of things Ridgeway can eat a bag or three of dicks for basically guaranteeing that the very tip of the spear was kept blunt. However we also have to remember that the weather was not always on the side of the drops, pilot fatigue and skittishness was a genuine concern, Husky and Overlord had shown that, and German flak was indeed heavy closer to the bridges around Arnhem. Indeed the Poles got cut to pieces when they finally made their drop. Flakvierlings and mg42s are not kind to helpless slowly falling paras floating sedately to the ground. There should be mention of the radios here too, have heard a LOT of contradictory reports on that, from missing and faulty batteries to something about the local soil being iron rich? Yet this last bit didn't seem to affect German radios, so... *shrug* In terms of the more tactical in-theater level, Gavin definitely cops it hard for failing to take his objective when he had the chance, however someone else commenting on this video rightly points out that the 82nd would have been hard pressed to keep the bridge from an armoured SS column. Once things have played out I can't really blame Browning that much as so much was outwith his own ability to change. He couldn't prevent Hell's Highway being cut multiple times by German counterattack, nor could he clearup Nijmegen for 30 Corps. Really by Day three of Market Garden it was a case of making the best of what you could from day to day as the operational plan was out the window at this point. In terms of the aftermath, Browning, Montgomery and various others can rightly be blamed for hanging the Poles and Sossabowski out to dry. What could a relatively inexperienced and underequipped unit do, bravely as the Poles may have fought, in the situation in which they got tossed into? There was no realistic way of saving 1st Para's bacon, as much as it was sticking to the operational conception, it was also a fairly desperate move.
@davidarchibald50
@davidarchibald50 Год назад
In my career as a specialist in Emergency Medicine Intensive care and Anaesthesia, I was aware of well-trained doctors faced with a number of severely injured patients who would focus on a small irrelevant injury. I would arrive to find the doctor carefully sewing up a minor injury while the patient bled out from a major injury elsewhere. These officers would have died for their men but also for their reputation and their prejudice. Too many American and British generals failed their men by focusing on the minor things never seeing that they were only minor players in a vast drama, missing what was essential and important. Yet their political commanders were no better. In the end, they got the job done, I do not judge them, they were all heroes, and I shall remember them! (so not guilty but culpable)
@montanabulldog9687
@montanabulldog9687 5 лет назад
EXCELLENT Video ! . . . I like both your "Information, as well as its Delivery" !.
@Byzantine41
@Byzantine41 6 лет назад
Thank you for the historical background context which explains so much of Market Garden.
@O13146
@O13146 2 года назад
Good afternoon ,Please let me know which book by Mead are you quoting in this youtube presentation ?
@Treblaine
@Treblaine 6 лет назад
"Highest point in the Netherlands" that still isn't very high. It's like saying it's the hottest part of Scotland or the driest part of the Amazon Rainforest. The Netherlands is notorious of how low lying it is. It's not a particularly hilly part of the world.
@noahlowe4510
@noahlowe4510 Год назад
I’m accally a direct relative of fredrick. This is a interesting video for me. Thankyou
@peterupstairs1842
@peterupstairs1842 5 лет назад
One of the huge difficulties faced by all commanders during the invasion of Europe was the need to work with their allies. The major two being, of course, the UK and the USA. The tensions between these two had been the cause of problems in North Africa, Sicily and Italy so there was no reason to expect any massive improvement once the troops hit Europe. Eisenhower seems to have done a reasonable job of containing those tensions but naturally couldn't dispose of them. Generals are often arrogant egomaniacs, I guess it's almost a job requirement, and certainly the commanders of the American and British forces in WW2 were often of this type. Your videos are excellent. I have read extensively on WW2 and have found few books that show the wealth of research, or the unbiased, logical conclusions drawn from that research, that your videos display. If you were one of my students I would sit down and let you do the lecturing. However, I do wonder if you give the relationship problems between the USA and the UK militaries the prominence in your thinking that I would, respectfully, suggest they deserve. That the alliance worked as well as it did was little short of miraculous but I suspect the real blame for Market Garden, and many other failings of the Allies had a lot more to do with the nature of the problems between them than the individual commanders. That said, there was no excuse for the failure of the 82nd to take the bridge on day one, and that fault must lie with their commander. Keep up the good work.
@dcutl
@dcutl 5 лет назад
Generals clash for prestige, glory, and honor while the regular combat soldiers die. Damn shame.
@jsfbr
@jsfbr 6 лет назад
After watching both this and your first video, I finally understood, "grasped" what you say about Gavin being responsible for the operation's failure to achieve its major objective, i.e., given all other issues, the operation stiil would have a good chance to succeed if Gavin's troop had seized the bridge in Niejmegen in time, and they could have done it.
@sawyerawr5783
@sawyerawr5783 6 лет назад
that's a mark of a terrible plan not a failure of Gavin...if you're battle plan is that precisely timed that it can't survive a situation like that, then it never should have been undertaken in the first place.
@bmc7434
@bmc7434 6 лет назад
Doubt it since Gavin would needed to take the terrain on both side's of the Waal surrounding the Bridge, one of the main issues it that the Airborne troops didn't have boats on the first day, and if the Bridge went they would have troops trapped by the Waal with limited supplies.
@davidhimmelsbach557
@davidhimmelsbach557 6 лет назад
It's not Gavin: it's the drop zones for the 101st Airborne. It should've been dropped between the two critical bridges. Then the Allies win, going away. The Son could've been bridged by XXX Corps -- which is exactly what happened. 101st Airborne made virtually NO contribution to the battle. What they did do didn't need them -- and could've been done better by XXX Corps. The fault for that drop goes to the British: Monty or Browning. It's an epic fail.
@jeffburnham6611
@jeffburnham6611 6 лет назад
@jsfbr you need to go back and rewatch those videos again, because you grasped nothing. So let me specifically point out to you what John Frost said about the Sept 14th meeting. Browning told Gavin, take the Groesbeek Heights first, Nijmegen later. Seems like a pretty clear directive to me from the superior officer in charge of airborne operations for Market Garden. The heights are the priority, then the road bridge. Now that you know what to look for, go back and watch the video on John Frosts account of the Operation.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
@@bmc7434 With it being held by 19 defenders initially, the way to get troops onto the other side of the Waal would have been by capturing the bridge and walking over it to get to the other side.
@hollowmstr
@hollowmstr 6 лет назад
I have to agree that Gavin and Browning were responsible, the worst thing of all is that the only thing that happened to General Browning was that he was reassigned to the South East Asia command afterwards.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
hollowmstr The blames is on one mans and one man only - Gavin.
@jordandangelo7210
@jordandangelo7210 6 лет назад
Agreed on the blame. Well put.
@123Dunebuggy
@123Dunebuggy 6 лет назад
@TIK The Groesbeek heights, are a raised forrested plain, its raised on average 5 meters above the surrounding area, with small hill features about +-50 meters in places. However because this is about 100 meters above sealevel, its technically one of the highest terrain in the Netherlands, hence there can be some confusion about this bumpy forrest. To the West u have a heather Moor, and to the east between the Reichwald and Groesbeek Heights is farmland. Despite what the 82nd was told, this was sparsely hilly forrest. IF they wanted to secure the north-south road in depth again armor, they would have to and did use alot of manpower that was crucial in nijmegen.
@toraguchitoraguchi9154
@toraguchitoraguchi9154 5 лет назад
Well done. Really enjoyed it.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
"Unless the parachute divisions took and held the bridges, Market Garden would fail. That was true at Eindhoven, Zon, Grave and Arnhem - and was no less true at Nijmegen. General Brereton’s orders were quite specific on this point: the airborne divisions were to take the bridges _‘with thunderclap surprise’._ *In neglecting to do so Gavin not only departed from his orders, he also forgot one of the basic principles of war - the selection and maintenance of the aim.* Why Gavin, urged on and abetted by Browning, elected to ignore this prime requirement and substitute the Groesbeek heights as the 82nd’s prime objective - and why Brereton let them get away with it - remains a mystery." - Neillands
@T.S.Birkby
@T.S.Birkby 6 лет назад
John Burns Operation Order WO171/366: QUOTE "US 82nd Airborne Division - will seize and hold hold bridges at NIJMEGEN and GRAVE with the same object in view. The capture and retention of the high ground between NIJMEGEN and GROSSBEEK is imperative in order to accomplish the Division's task"
@MrvanderKruk
@MrvanderKruk 6 лет назад
Hi TIK, Recently I've come to love your video's! As a Dutchman, and knowing you take an interest in correct pronunciation, I'd like to inform you Poulussen is pronounced as the German general Paulus + en.
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
Thank you! I have Poulussen on Twitter, and he never bothered to correct my pronunciation of his name :)
@claytonbradish4034
@claytonbradish4034 6 месяцев назад
Question, since there was a lack of aircraft to perform the drops on day 1. To maximize the effect on day 1 , shouldn't 101st be the one left for day 2. As it seems their bridges were of less importance ( could be bailey bridged ) . And now all those aircraft can be used to more closely airlift the British and 82nd. To accomplish the bridges needed. And 101st used to then help with reinforcing where needed, as 30 Corp comes up the road.
@davemac1197
@davemac1197 6 месяцев назад
That would leave a huge gap between the British 2nd Army in Belgium and the 82nd Airborne at Grave-Nijmegen. The British had previously penetrated the first German defence line on the Albert canal at Beringen and then snatched a Meuse-Escaut canal bridge at Neerpelt on 10 September, which was a second line. The next defence line was the Wilhelmina canal at Son, and this was the bridge blown by the Germans as 1st and 2nd Battalions 506th PIR closed in on D-Day. Giving the Germans a day to prepare reinforcements or demolish the bridges all the way from Eindhoven (four bridges over the river Dommel in the city) to Veghel on the Zuid Willemsvaart canal and the parallel river Aa, would have seriously delayed the advance and made the 101st Airborne's job of capturing the bridges intact that much more difficult. It's also worth mentioning that the delay at Son to build a Bailey bridge there was effectively zero hours, contrary to the claim made in the Hollywood film, because the armoured advance arrived at the bridge site at 1900 hrs as it was already getting dark (between 1845 and 2000 hrs in mid-September), the engineers and bridging column arrived at 1930 hrs and work began on the bridge at 2000 hrs with an estimated 10 hours construction time. It was completed just 15 minutes after the estimate at 0615 hrs, before first light, when the first armoured cars of 2nd Household Cavalry passed over, and because the 101st had secured all the bridges to Veghel, they reached 82nd Airborne at Grave in just a couple of hours, and the Grenadier Guards tanks shortly afterwards. The Bailey bridge was constructed entirely during the hours of darkness, when it was doctrine not to move tanks (no night vision), so they would have stopped for the night in the 101st Division area anyway, therefore the delay at Son was zero. The fatal delay was at Nijmegen, where the tanks could not go any further for 36 hours because the Waal river bridges were still in Germans hands and heavily reinforced with SS panzer troops. An examination of the failure of MARKET GARDEN should focus on the Nijmegen bridge on the first day, because this is where the planning and execution failed the operation, and where the Germans correctly exploited the error in order to delay it.
@georgekaragiannakis6637
@georgekaragiannakis6637 3 года назад
Market Garden was so complex that everything had to go right for it to succeed. In the end so much went wrong. Browning and Gavin failed at a tactical level, the dismissal of hard evidence of panzers in the area but accepting phantom panzer, but so did Montgomery at a strategic level to think a single Corp on a single road could turn the whole German front. A lot of egos, including the ongoing conflict with Patton.
@thevillaaston7811
@thevillaaston7811 3 года назад
'ongoing conflict with Patton.' What ongoing conflict?
@georgekaragiannakis6637
@georgekaragiannakis6637 3 года назад
@@thevillaaston7811 the hatred between the two has been told and retold in history books, movies and even in the press of the day. No dispute!
@thevillaaston7811
@thevillaaston7811 3 года назад
@@georgekaragiannakis6637 The only hatred would seem to have been of Montgomery by Patton. Little wonder, Montgomery was more senior than Patton.
@larryolimb9980
@larryolimb9980 6 лет назад
I still don't understand why Ike didn't release more ground attack aircraft to deal with the supposed heavy antiaircraft guns. Additionally, having served 12 yrs in airborne units, how could any commander believe 3 days of drops could give this operation a decent chance of success. Surprise mass and maneuver are lost.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Larry Olimb In the planning the USAAF prevented fighter-bombers being used. They would have slowed/prevented armour coming from Germany in daylight.
@dongilleo9743
@dongilleo9743 6 лет назад
I have watched all of your videos of Market-Garden. I have had an interest in this campaign even since before I saw "A Bridge Too Far" years ago. I agree with the idea that there was enough blame to go around; that everyone involved made mistakes. I think the idea of trying to blame any one individual more than the rest may be an impossible and misleading task. An airline pilot friend of mine told me that when they investigate plane crashes, they often find multiple causes. No one mistake, error, or equipment failure is completely at fault, any one thing just by itself and the plane might not have crashed, but it is the cascade effect of everything together that results in disaster. For example: If 1st Airborne Division had not landed miles away from Arnhem bridge, had instead landed south of the bridge and immediately seized it, the 10th SS Panzer Division elements would not have been able to cross the bridge and drive to Nijmegan just in time to prevent Gavin's, admittedly tardy, 82nd Division from capturing that vital bridge. One mistake or the other alone, and Market-Garden might still have succeeded, but the two together meant failure. I would like to suggest the REAL culprit for the failure of Market-Garden. In a way, Market-Garden was doomed to failure years before it was ever conceived, as far back as 1940 when the British and Americans first started developing their own Airborne units in response to Germany's use of them. Eventually the Americans and British had, counting actual divisions and smaller independent units, some 7 to 9 Airborne division equivalents in the European area of operations. Unfortunately, they never aquired sufficient numbers of transport aircraft to deploy more than two full strength divisions at any one time, in one operation, in one airlift. A good part of the failure of Market-Garden was that all three of the Airborne division commanders were trying to obtain multiple objectives, with less than their full strength, while at the same time having to guard landing zones for later arriving drops. Imagine if there were enough transport planes, gliders, etc, that all three divisions and the Polish brigade had landed at full strength all at once on the first day. All the other flaws in the plan and mistakes would not have had the impact they did, and Market-Garden may very well have succeeded. The decisions made years earlier as to how many resources to commit to building transports, to creating multiple Airborne units without the comparable planes needed to deploy them, doomed Market-Garden. Even for Operation Varsity, the Airborne operation supporting the crossing of the Rhine six months later, the Americans and British still only had sufficient transport planes to carry two divisions. A third division planned to participate had to be cut because there were too few planes. In contrast, by 1944-45 in the Pacific theater of operations, the Americans had created six Marine divisions, and had other Infantry division involved with landing operations as well, and there were ample enough troop transport ships, landing craft, amphibious tractors, etc to move multiple divisions into battle at Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Airborne warfare really only existed and was practiced between 1940-45 in a major way. It was still evolving, it's commanders were still learning and developing it's doctines. In hindsight, the World War 2 Airborne warfare success rate and usefulness was at best questionable and mixed.
@dr.staletti1644
@dr.staletti1644 6 лет назад
Awesome work!
@ebenezerscrooge6542
@ebenezerscrooge6542 5 лет назад
Another good one,thank you.
@scottbonner6922
@scottbonner6922 2 года назад
Fixing blame for Arnhem at any point further south is a question of timing. XXX Corps linked up with the Poles near Arnhem three days late on Day 6. Is that delay the reason the Rhine could not be crossed? I don't think so. During Market Garden planning, did Montgomery believe that a three day delay in XXX Corps reaching Arnhem would result in the annihilation of 1st Airborne? Dozens of factors including stiffer than expected German resistance, weather, multiple drops, the narrow road, bridges being destroyed before capture, and poor decisions by field commanders could (and did) easily result in this type of delay. I haven't seen any records on this, but I expect he felt a division could hold a bridge for a week. If not, he was taking a huge risk with 10K elite soldiers. The problem was that the bulk of the division never got to the bridge. The heroic actions of Frost's 2nd Battalion in Arnhem created a several day window where Market Garden might still have been successful despite this failure. That's why the delay at Nijmegen was so critical and the criticism of Gavin decision justified. However, if Frost hadn't found a way into Arnhem before the German line solidified, it would be obvious that the blame for Market Garden's failure falls to Urquhart and his inability to get 1st Airborne to the Arnhem bridge.
@spartacusgladiator
@spartacusgladiator Год назад
I spent 3 years at the NATO Air Supreme Command in Brunssum, Netherlands. As a retired U S Marine Officer, we would post the colors in my classroom of 6th graders each morning, do the American Flag Salute and sing 3-4 songs before settling down to our regular routine. Now I had students in my class from 15 different countries besides my American students. We had a full U S Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps flags and of course the USA flag. Kids loved this and fought over who got to hold the flags each morning. Well my Canadian and British kids who loved this told their parents and soon after I was called into the Directors Office and met a 2 star British Officer and a 2 Star Canadian General. I was forced to read a ":Letter of Censure" as they felt I was proselytizing their kids to become little Americans. I thought this was a joke and said "We have a great statue in New York Harbor that says>>Bring me your tired, your poor, your downtrodden> We are always looking for a few good FUTURE Americans. They didn't think this was funny. I refused to sign the little of censure and pointed down the road of Margraten Cemetery where 13,000 Americans were buried. Most of them killed during Operation Market Garden and I looked at the British General and said>>>Killed due to the incompetency of a British General. They were not amused. Security was sent to my classroom and they confiscated my flags and told me to take my trumpet back to my home and NO MORE American Flag Salutes. I said, why not give me a British and a Canadian flag and those students can do whatever Brits and Canucks do in their classrooms. No, that was not to be. I was given back my flags a few days before I was transferred 3 years later to AFRICOM/EUCOM, Marine Special Ops Command in Stuttgart Germany. I was happy to leave NATO and get back on to a regular U S Military base.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 Год назад
Please point to any incompetency by a British General causing 13,000 US deaths?
@spartacusgladiator
@spartacusgladiator Год назад
@@johnburns4017 as a U S Marine Combat Officer, the leader of any operation is the ultimate success or failure. Market Garden was a total disaster. Spend some time at the Margraten National U S Cemetery in Brunssum, The Netherlands and walk the graves of the average age of 20 years 2 months. The British screwed the pooch on this one.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 Год назад
@@spartacusgladiator Monty didn’t plan Market Garden, coming up with the idea and broad outline only. Montgomery was largely excluded from the planning process. It was planned mainly by the Air Force commanders, Brereton and Williams of the USAAF. The failure points were that two US para units, the 101st and the 82nd, *failed* to seize their bridges. It was Bereton and Williams who: ▪ decided that there would be drops spread over three days, defeating the object of para jumps by losing all surprise, which is their major asset; rejected the glider coup-de-main on the bridges that had been so successful on D-day on the Pegasus Bridge and which had been agreed to on the previously planned Operation Comet; ▪ chose the drop and and landing zones so far from the Bridges; Who would not allow the ground attack fighters to take on the flak positions and attack the Germans while the escort fighters were protecting the transports, thereby allowing them to bring in reinforcements with impunity; ▪Who rejected drops south of the Wilhelmina Canal that would prevent the capture of the bridges at Son, Best and Eindhoven by the 101st because of “possible flak.“; The state of play on the 17th, D day, was: *1)* the road from Eindhoven to Arnhem was largely clear; *2)* there were concentrated German forces on the Dutch/Belgian border facing the British on the front line - naturally; *3)* there were around 600 non-combat troops in Nijmegen; *4)* a few scattered about along the road; *5)* there was no armour in Arnhem. That was it. *i)* XXX Corps would deal from the Belgium border to Eindhoven; *ii)* 101st from Eindhoven to Grave; *iii)* 82nd from Grave to north of Nijmegen; *iv)* British and Polish paras from north of Nijmegen to north of the Rhine; XXX Corps moved off on H hour on d-day meeting stiffer resistance than they expected. The US official history states they made _remarkable_ progress. The US 101st took *3-4 hours* to move about *2 km* to the Zon bridge with little opposition, hanging around, spending 2 hours in the village. The Germans blew the bridge when they finally reached it. If they had done a coup de main or moved faster to the bridge, the 101st would have secured it. _Evidently expecting that Major La Prade's flanking battalion would have captured the highway bridge, these two battalions made no apparent haste in moving through Zon. They methodically cleared stray Germans from the houses, so that a full_ *_two hours had passed before they emerged from the village._* _Having at last overcome the enemy 88 south of the Zonsche Forest, Major LaPrade's battalion caught sight of the bridge at about the same time. Both forces were within fifty yards of the bridge when their objective went up with a roar._ - US Official History. XXX Corps heard that the bridge ahead was blown so slowed up, getting the Bailey bridge ready. Urgency had gone out of the advance until a bridge was erected. XXX Corps were delayed *10-12 hours* at Zon while they themselves ran over a Bailey bridge. In this gift of a time window the Germans were running armour into Arnhem, and towards the road, which would make matters worse. XXX Corps moved out of Zon on D-day plus 2 first light. It took them *2hrs 45 mins* to travel 26 miles on that road. It was clear except for some Germans on the road in the gap between the southern 82nd perimeter and the northern 101st's perimeter. The two airborne units were to lay a continuous _carpet_ for XXX Corps to power up. They never met up. *The road was still largely clear from Zon to Arnhem 40 hours after the first jump.* XXX Corps reached Nijmegen about 0820hrs on d-day plus 2, making up the delay at Zon, being right on time. They reached Nijmegen seeing the Germans still on the bridge when arriving. A bridge the 82nd were supposed to have secured for them to speed over. If the 101st and 82nd had seized their bridges immediately, XXX Corps would have been at the Arnhem bridge on d-day plus one in the evening. Game, set, and match. On arriving at Nijmegen XXX Corps took control, then immediately worked to seize the bridge themselves, after the 82nd tried again and failed again. This delayed them another *36 hours.* This was now a total delay of nearly *two days.* In this massive and unexpected gift of a time window, the Germans ran armour into Arnhem from Germany overpowering the British paras at Arnhem. XXX Corps could only reach the southern end of Arnhem bridge on the Rhine, only yards away from their objective. A bridgehead was precluded because two US airborne units *failed* to seize their bridges - easy to seize bridges at that, if they had bothered to move with any speed. According to the official AMERICAN Army historian, Forrest Pogue, he stated that the failure of US 82nd Airborne to assault the lightly defended Nijmegen bridge immediately upon jumping 'sounded the death knell' for the men at Arnhem.
@spartacusgladiator
@spartacusgladiator Год назад
@@johnburns4017 are you speaking as a combat infantryman who has made combat jumps? I doubt it. Nice cut and paste job. Coming up with the idea and broad outline got those elite U S troops killed. Should have NEVER happened! Poor Intelligence.
@brendanukveteran2360
@brendanukveteran2360 Год назад
Compelling - and very informative: 15/10
@DKatierS
@DKatierS 6 лет назад
As in any major battle I think you can look at a number of mistakes being made. The failure doesn't just land at the door of Browning or anyone else, but i think the biggest oversight which ultimately doomed the mission was the failure to recognise the Driel Ferry as a viable backup crossing and potential place for a Bailey Bridge. The British controlled the crossing, without realising it, for the entire battle and nothing during the battle would have changed that. This is because the German armour would always have had to break through the pocket and that never happened, the German infantry on the West side of the pocket was of insufficient strength to have broken through. Had the British taken control of the Ferry they would, at least for some of the battle, have had a means of getting troops (including Jeeps, 6lbers etc. - as it was a Vehicle ferry) across, and thus as soon as the battle in Arnhem became bogged down on Day 2 a decision could have been made to cross at Driel and attempt an attack on the south side of the Arnhem bridge, from the south. It would also have made things much easier for the Polish to support the British and once XXX Corps crossed the Waal they may well have chosen to support Driel either as the only objective, or as a second objective - thus potentially meaning they would use the more favourable Westerly route overlooked in the battle. With the Ferry as a backup plan, the British may also have given up battling to the Bridge earlier, thus saving troops and ammunition. Despite all the mistakes at Nijmegen, if the British had been able to take the south side of the Bridge, which is plausible given the tattered state of the 9th SS Recon battalion, by approaching from Driel, then the battle could have been won. Also the Polish would have been able to drop at DZ K rather than Driel. If there had been communication with Browning then conceivably a backup plan could also have been concocted to send the Polish South to take the Waal bridge from the North.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
That might have resulted in holding the southern end, but still not the northern end. XXX Corps ultimately got to Arnhem, so could have taken the southern end anyway, it's just by that point the paratroopers had been driven away from the northern end.
@robertwiseman6978
@robertwiseman6978 6 лет назад
Brilliant video. Thank you. It will be interesting to see what Anthony Beevor says in his new book: Arnhem, The battle for the Bridges. I just got a copy of it today.
@TheImperatorKnight
@TheImperatorKnight 6 лет назад
I got a copy and skimmed through to the relevant parts... Oh boy
@GregandWerner
@GregandWerner Год назад
Really interesting and appears to have done a lot of research, however I'm curious, where was Ultra information on this? Was there any? Especially if it was thought there were 1000 tanks lying in wait? Certainly the Allied high command would have had access. Moreover, if the underground had intellegence of SS Divisions in the area wouldn't command have consulted Ultra information? Perhaps I'm placing too much emphasis on Ultra... Whatever the reasons, it apprears there was too much hubris and many loss there lives for it. As usual, any level of decision making should remember, "there is no right way to do a wrong thing..."
@davemac1197
@davemac1197 Год назад
Yes, there was Ultra intelligence placing II.SS-Panzerkorps in the eastern Netherlands and the Luftwaffe codes were a little easier to break, so we knew that the FLIVO (Luftwaffe liaison officer) to Model's Heeresgruppe B had moved into Oosterbeek, so the inference was that Model was there too. The Dutch resistance had reported SS panzer troops in various billets over a wide area between Arnhem-Apeldoorn-Deventer-Ruurlo, they had identified the 'H' insignia of the 9.SS-Panzer-Division 'Hohenstaufen' on some vehicles, and also identified Kasteel Ruurlo as hosting a divisional headquarters, but not which division. The Dutch had also established that the German headquarters that had moved into Oosterbeek was an Army Group (Heeresgruppe), but the checkerboard insignia with the border around it identified the level of headquarters, not the identitity of the commander as GenFM Model as shown dramatically in the film A Bridge Too Far. The important consideration when assessing the inteliigence is that 'Ultra' was top secret and nobody below the rank of an Army commander could know of its existence, so Montgomery (21st Army Group), Dempsey (2nd Army) and Brereton (1st Allied Airborne Army) would receive Ultra information, but lower commanders at Corps level like Browning (I Airborne Corps) and Horrocks (XXX Corps) would only get a sanitised summary with no indication of the source. It was not unknown for a Corps Commander to be captured. Richard O'Connor was captured by one of Rommel's reconnaissance patrols in North Africa and spent over two years in an Italian POW camp, until the collapse of Mussolini's regime in 1943, and he then escaped. During Market Garden he was in command of XII Corps on the left flank of Horrocks' XXX Corps. The Dutch resistance groups were very effective as intelligence agencies, because the nature of the landscape precluded partisan activities as in France or Yugoslavia, so intelligence gathering and escape and evasion for aircrews etc., were the main activities. However, the German counter-intel services has penetrated some cells and destroyed them or planted false information, so the British treated their information as unconfirmed unless there was a second source, such as aerial photo reconnaissance. The Americans were less circumspect because they hadn't suffered the bad experiences over four years. The most up to date assessment available was the SHAEF Weekly Intel Summary #26 dated 16 September 1944, placing II.SS-Panzerkorps refitting in the eastern Netherlands with both divisions reduced to a regimental battlegroup in strength with few if any tanks, and drawing new tanks from a depot thought to be in the Kleve area. This generated the silly rumour the Reichswald might be hiding up to 1,000 tanks and Gavin was told there might be a regiment of SS troops in the excellent Dutch army barracks in Nijmegen. Neither of these were true, but may have influenced his divisional plan to have the more experienced and aggressive 505th PIR secure his southern flank around Groesbeek and the Reichswald. This unfortunately meant tht the least experienced regiment in his division was given the Nijmegen mission, and although it could have walked into Nijmegen without barely firing a shot, they waited on the Groesbeek heights for a recon patrol to report in before receiving a visit from a very angry Gavin to get a battalion moving on the bridge, far too late. To put the tank situation into perspective, Model had less than 100 operational tanks in his entire Heeresgruppe B front in September, facing Montgomery's 21st Army Group with 2,400. The 9.SS-Panzer-Regiment had three Panthers at Arnhem, and the 10.SS-Panzer-Regiment had 16* Mark IV panzers and 4 StuG IIIG assault guns at Vorden. *Another contributor here tells me his grandfather was in the Hohenstaufen and always said they had maybe 14 tanks but only two running at the time of the landings. I think that sounds reasonable and maybe it's 14 plus 2 runners. The Hohenstaufen came out of Normandy with 10+ Mark IV tanks and had to hand them all over to the Frundsberg, who concentrated a total of 16 in their 5.Kompanie and the 4 StuGs in the 7.Kompanie, according to Dieter Stenger's Panzer East and West (2017).
@bigwoody4704
@bigwoody4704 8 месяцев назад
The failure of Montgomery to heed the allied reconnaissance information during the planning was the biggest flaw. The ability of the Germans to respond and take a mishmash of broken, depleted troops, hastily assembled from miscellaneous units with a wild assortment of backgrounds then organize them to fight was a big factor in the outcome. An actual Field Marshall Walter Model was there and directing operations in person Monty captured neither the V-2 launch sites, Arnhem or Antwerp during Market Garden. And the reprisals brought on the honger winter *The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.262-63 Brigadier E.T. Williams, Montgomery's Intelligence Chief cautioned the Field Marshall that the Allies "enemy appreciation was very weak" and that no proper study of the ground around Arnhem had been made* . A radio decrypt also revealed the enemy expected a XXX Corp thrust toward Nijmegen. *The Guns at Last Light,by Rick Atkinson,p.270 one terrain study had concluded that cross country movement in the area varies from impracticable to impossible. All canals and rivers present obstacles, accentuated by the thousands of dikes and shallow drainage ditches* *Decision in Normandy,Carlo D'este​ from the outset Market Garden was a prescription for trouble that was plagued by mistakes,over sights,false assertions and out right arrogance.It's success hinged on a slender thread attack & its execution would prove disastrously complex.* British ground commander Miles Dempsey was sufficiently concerned that he recommended the drop be made near Wessel.Which would enable 1st Army to block a German counter attack.His proposal was never seriously considered or his concerns addressed
@SNP-1999
@SNP-1999 5 лет назад
Very interesting and informative video! So when one really gets down to study the whole affair by researching sources and documents most people never get to read, there are substantial facts pertaining to questionable decisions in the planning of Market-Garden that seem to vindicate Browning, such as the priority given to Air Force requirements over those of the Army, i.e. Airborne, supported by Brereton, himself an Air Force officer. It would seem that Browning had many decisions forced on him that he, had he been in command of the Allied Airborne Army, would never have accepted or condoned. As it was, he was also just a subordinate to the Realpolitik of the war - the Americans had more troops in Europe and supplied most of the resources and equipment, so their commanders got the top jobs and the British came second, and had to obey orders whether they liked them or not.
@bernardtaggart835
@bernardtaggart835 Год назад
He the yank had one priority the bridge take it keep it
@bernardtaggart835
@bernardtaggart835 Год назад
Boy Browning should have home but it seems he was a glory hound
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
"The 1st Battalion, 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Shields Warren, was charged with taking the road bridge over the Waal *at Nijmegen: a prime task of Operation Market was being entrusted here to just one battalion from an entire division.* According to the US Official History, there was some dispute over exactly when the 1st Battalion should go for the bridge. General Gavin was to claim later that the battalion was to ‘go for the bridge without delay’. However, Colonel Lindquist, the 508th Regimental commander, understood that *Warren’s battalion was not to go for the bridge until the other regimental objectives - securing the Groesbeek Ridge and the nearby glider LZs, had been achieved: General Gavin’s operational orders confirm Warren’s version.* Warren’s initial objective was ground near De Ploeg, a suburb of Nijmegen, which he was to take and organise for defence: only then was he to ‘prepare to go into Nijmegen later’ and these initial tasks took Lieutenant Colonel Warren most of the day. It was not until *1830hrs* that he was able to send a force into Nijmegen. This force was somewhat small, just one rifle platoon and an intelligence section with a radio - say *forty men."* - Neillands This was all on D-Day. Browning was expecting the bridge to have been taken immediately. So, Browning was guilty of believing Gavin about the 1,000 tanks, but not in failing to seize the bridge on the 1st day.
@T.S.Birkby
@T.S.Birkby 6 лет назад
John Burns Browning landed by glider on the 17th
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Thx. I'll check that.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
Yes Browning came in on the 1st day. He was setting up his HQ and unable to communicate with the other three generals he was over. The first 3 hours was critical and that was Gavin's responsibility. In that first 3 hours Gavin never moved on the bridge.
@wbertie2604
@wbertie2604 2 года назад
The reason why it was deemed OK for the Poles to come in close on day three was aircraft. Given the concern over flak over Arnhem, then it made no sense (so it seemed) to commit and potentially lose lots of aircraft on day 1 - the Poles couldn't have then come on day three due to lack of aircraft. By day 3 it was hoped that the flak would be suppressed, and so a close-in drop would then have been possible.
@johnivkovich8655
@johnivkovich8655 6 лет назад
It is not for me to assign blame. Given your well presented video I feel better prepared to discuss the topic, and I thank you for that.
@reedpond6867
@reedpond6867 6 лет назад
The failure of Market-Garden is Browning = 60%, Gavin 40%, since Browning was the overall ground commander, and command has the responsibility for the operations failure.
@johnburns4017
@johnburns4017 6 лет назад
REED POND Well blame Eisenhower as he was in charge of the lot. It was him who would not the resources, nor would he fire Bradley or Patton.
@robdmorton
@robdmorton 6 лет назад
Yet another great vid :-)
@apudharald2435
@apudharald2435 6 лет назад
Is Mead a biographer or a military historian? If the former, his comments on any battle must be taken with a huge amount of salt. And the title of his book would tend to imply that he is not a military historian.
@tangle70
@tangle70 6 лет назад
So Browning being in command, when he seen that their was no attempt to take a bridge, should have relieved Gavin on the spot and taken charge. He was the commander on the ground and deserves the top blame. It says a lot about how they over estimated their troops abilities. If a battalion of two could hold off 10 panzer divisions, why not just attack with the airborne troops. The war would have been over in days. Of course that would have been why Browning ignored just a couple SS division in Arnhem.
@teddoyle491
@teddoyle491 3 года назад
Browning ordered Gavin to take the heights before the bridge. Quit scapegoating Gavin for Browning's failings.
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