Dreamworks really likes the idea of the main character being a "Villain" who is a misunderstood hero (in other words, An Antihero) who is unfairly criticized by society just because of his looks, mistakes and actions, while the true evil is someone you wouldn't expect normally in fiction and are often overlooked until they actually do show thier true colors and the main character has the chance to become the hero as a result and are finally given thier place in the thier community. This movie is the 4th time they did it. But they never make it generic.
Actually Pierre Perifel gives us an explanation for that here: In the books, society consisted of only animals. In the movie, that's been mixed with both humans and feral/humanoid animals. Why is that? Pierre Perifel (director): "So, a few reasons. The first is, from the beginning, I wanted to do something that is different. The big idea in the film is that those are legendary characters that we wrote stories about and are afraid of, and it really comes from a human standpoint, you know? When you write about the Big Bad Wolf, it's a human idea it's not another animal idea. I didn't wanted to end up with the idea that those were predators in a world of preys, that would've been full on Zootopia. First of all, that concept is not exactly what I wanted to tell as a story, the story was like, we are having these characters which are prejudices, or we're prejudices against them. It was all about stereotyping and not about prey vs predator, you know? We thought 'hang on. How would a giraffe react to a piranha? They wouldn't care. But we, as humans, we do care.' and so therefore, for me, it's a metaphor our fears, these characters are a metaphor for our fears and it was important to just get the rest of the world as humans. They're really just wearing masks, they're criminal wearing masks, they're scary people wearing masks of scary animals. And Marmalade is the same thing, it's stereotyping something that is cute but is actually the opposite of that. So, it was important to keep the human standpoint on prejudice." I don't think it's just because of they're 'canine', but because they're of what we humans fear most. Those stereotypes are based on our fears.
I get why people criticize the film for animals living with humans, but I think you're not really supposed to think about it. It's kinda like looney toons cartoon logic where we don't question it.
Yeah, that's definitely an important message and one that is not very popular in media due to how US is over-represented in these things with its approach of "punish the criminals" rather than "reform and reintegrate them". Criminals are not things that need to be locked out forever, they are still people, and one day they will be a part of the society, so let's give them the best chance of being a good part of the society...
i think this is a really important message to teach people! hating people forever for mistakes hurts everyone and leads to stagnation and nothing actually changing or getting better in my opinion. having been on both sides of wrongdoing i firmly believe in giving everyone multiple chances
To me, I hold this film in a special place in my heart. This film came out when I myself am going through some conflict with some of the issues the film is addressing. I'm more motivated to try and be more open minded and question my self.
I'm happy to read such comment, as you're not alone; Also, I experienced artistic burnout and funny enough, I heard here "this movie was a bit too much for my adult ADHD brain" while I LOVED it since 1st minutes and this "bit too much" reignited me after 3 years of burnout.
Another thing I'd like to add about Bad Guys is that it also touches upon how some people will hate you or make your life hard over something that isn't even your own fault, what you were born to be. Like people acting all scared of the bad guys just because of their species, makes me think of how people are always treating me like shit simply because I'm autistic. This is something that I also see in the Mario series as well so often, except the problem never gets solved there. It's crazy how much this movie reminded me of Mario, the bad guys are like the Koopas, Goombas and other minions, Bowser, the Koopalings, ect, while Professor Marmalade is like Princess Peach. (who laughed about Bowser kidnapping her and the Toads trying to help in Paper Jam's Japanese version, so alongside the fact Princess Peach is the only character in the entire franchise who is wildly self-contradicting, I find it incredibly hard to believe she is simply a poor damsel in distress with a pure heart as she is presented to be and nothing more, although many deny it, I propose that Princess Peach is something like what Professor Marmalade turned out to be) And the towns people are like the Toads.
Marmalade honestly reminded me a lot of celebrity influencer types. His whole thing is being the “best guy ever” giving to charities, trying to reform criminals, giving inspirational speeches. He’s the most generically cute animal that a lot of people would point to as flawless. He’s not got any preconceived animal fears behind him. Piranhas are rabid monsters that eat flesh, even though they rarely attack humans. Sharks are bloodthirsty beasts, even though they’re more often just curious towards humans and test biting is how they feel things so on so forth. It’s all too real to see someone so surface level good manipulate people who desire redemption. In reality many celebrities that seek gratification for the most simple things can be pretty bad themselves.
Great video, gotta say it takes a special kinda person to challenge the public notion on the supposed irreversable criminality of people in prison after working as a corrections officer. That thing about you keeping that crest as a reminder was pretty cool to hear about. Im curious, what security level was the facility you worked in? If that isn't too intrusive of course.
@@4shame Wow thats amazing! Its so easy to revert to the typical "do the crime do the time ideology" and become adversarial with an "us vs. them" ideology with felony inmates. Its great that you were able to build personal relationships with some of them and understand them as people.
The concept of forgiveness is more important than ever, because now your mistakes can be recorded and broadcasted to the entire world, forever. No wonder anxiety is on the roof, you're not allowed to be a dumb teen anymore, because your life would be pass under a microscope if you become even mildly famous.
The most interesting part of the film was the idea that "Even if we do change, who'll believe us?" and "Prove your own worth for yourself, not for them!" I do wish more was done with that. Pairing the idea of "give the less fortunate or marginalized a chance to redeem themselves" with the problem of not holding obvious white collar criminals or corrupt politicians who get away with fraud and rape due to a lax system would also make for an interesting contrast.
I like this movie and it’s message. My family is Christian and I try to be as forgiving and nice as I can be and I don’t agree with forgive and forget i instead believe forgive and remember so that you can help them become a better person while my mom on the other hand seems to believe in forget but never forgive where she holds onto a grudge but forgets why she has that grudge, she once told me that her dad cheated on her mom a lot when she was a kid and that he had a kid with someone else which is wrong yes but when she mentioned her half sibling she seemed angry at them. I asked if you ever met them and she said no but then called them a slur I don’t remember what, she doesn’t even know their gender and despises them for her father being bad. Now to my claim of being forgiving and nice, it’s hard for me to show how I care for others in public due to bullying as I grew up so I have bad social anxiety and freak out during casual conversations.
I think what I like as well about the message is that the main characters still get punished for the crimes they do commit, albeit a temporary sentence instead of a lifelong sentence, instead of getting away with everything Scott free. As far as the animals, it is a little confusing to have anthros in the same universe as humans, but I do understand that the animals are supposed to be symbolic to the character. I've heard people criticize marmalade for being a generic Twist Villain, but it made sense symbolically, or the fox being a thief, but it made sense symbolically.
Another aspect of this film is how, if your kind has generally been demonized, it can sometimes be easier to just own that image and play it to the hilt. It may be self-destructive, but it is something people do. It's a niche you can, if you're smart, exploit. At the very least, you can be badass at being a badass. I also loved how these people came together to basically form a family. They lived together, looked out for each other, knew each other's quirks and habits, gave each other a kind of nurturing that the wider society wouldn't or couldn't. As for the criminality, I got the impression that these people, the governor included, fit more into the gentleman criminal type as Lupin III might. They do these elaborate crimes for the thrill and challenge of it. Carmen San Diego is similar in that way. Sometimes crime can be the only realistic avenue for personal advancement. A good crime racket is still a business and has to be managed as such, and it may be open to people that wouldn't normal have legitimate business avenues open to them. Your comment about how much potential is probably wasted by putting so many people behind bars and taking away their future really highlights this. All that said, if you do crime, you are a criminal. You can debate whether many things that are criminalized should be, but the point remains. For many people, that's all they need to know, hence the impulse to lock people away, throw away the key, and not hear any "excuses" that might put the purp's actions into context. This world is becoming more unforgiving of any kind of mistakes, and the penalty for failure is getting steeper. It makes people often less willing to take chances while pushing others out of desperation into questionable avenues. A society without forgiveness is going to end up concluding everyone is evil and irredeemable. No wonder some of the boldest decide to own it and go out with a bang. Live it up while you can 'cause it ain't gonna last long.
This is very timely for me, as I just finished writing a paper on Rehabilitation vs Incarceration for my English class. I had to do a ton of research on both methods, and it was just shocking to me how much more effective rehabilitation actually is. Not only is it far more humane, less expensive in the long term, and is actually good for the economy, too. I'm glad more people are becoming aware of the merits of rehabilitation, and I hope that as it becomes more culturally relevant, that policies will change. People don't deserve to be punished for the rest of their life for a mistake or being in a situation that forced them to turn to crime.
That surprises me too honestly. One of the arguments I see against rehabilitation is how expensive it is, when it's entirely the opposite. I think it's a case of "out of sight -- out of mind"; Many think it's cheaper to keep people locked up (or, more accurately, don't think about the cost of doing so), because oftentimes they never hear about those people again once they're in jail. Rehabilitation puts the focus back on them being _people_ with needs and skills, making it appear more costly and resource-heavy.
I really liked this movie when I saw it. And when i got my first job my boss was a former member of the AB and he turned his life around after getting out of prison.
An example of this message is the Spider-Man Lotus drama that happened a few months ago involving the director and the guy playing the web head, Gavin (the director) came out with an apology video and owned up to his mistakes
I like they carefully place the forgiveness message with recognising when people GENUINELY want to change over just trying to manipulate the system to get away with everything, which likely also plays into the aforementioned overzealousness to ruin people for one slip up nowadays. Even more stipulations come in with characters like Diane, a former criminal who HAS turned over a new leaf, but now has trouble meeting the happy balance due to taking in some toxic lessons from the world around her, going from either provoking and pontificating fellow criminals or pardoning them with only smidgeons of proof they have changed, her best effort being when she takes a more personal investment in the whole thing and emphasises based on her own experiences. Being good isn't just about being pious and doing generic 'good things', plenty assholes do good stuff on the side and thinks it makes up for still doing a lot of shitty stuff, hell some people think just telling off another asshole makes them automatically good instead of just a deflecting phony shithead, you have to be willing to spread that goodwill and make the world better, something Wolf catches onto by not only turning good but convincing his teammates to do the same.
Great video, I loved this movie so much and your analysis is very appt I think (even though I personally loved the high energy off the wall insanity of this movie)
I'm subverting this message with my own fanfic. In it, the Other Choice, Diane Foxington is pure evil, and has literally clawed her way to being Empress of California, taking over Baja California also. But just what Di does will shock you to the core.
It’s interesting bringing your thoughts on a movie and connecting it to your own experiences. I’ve heard that the prison system in America can have it’s problems, but it’s interesting hearing someone’s getting personal testimony on the matter. Ultimately, yeah, we live in a society where it’s preach that it’s “okay to make mistakes”, but then when we do make mistakes, it’s reprimanded and shamed. Although it is true that there are some nasty people out there, everyone is fighting with their own demons. I can’t day I’m the worse person in this planet, but I definitely done things that I regret. It’s hard to not let it define me, and try to be a better person. Anyways interesting review of “The Bad Guys”, didn’t think I would think this deeply when watching this review.
I thought this film was pretty good. I have a few problems with it (some of which I share with others) but a issues I have that no one seems to have a problem with, it’s the world building. Specifically how in this world only 7 anthro animals exist in this human world. Like I would get it if there were some other anthro animal that existed, but how the only animals characters are the main characters but everyone else i human is weird to me. Especially how in the original books (which are great) had it all anthro animals
Just shows that if someone commits a crime or is framed, people should still remember you're a human being, even when they do their time, criminals are living like you and me. It still boggles my mind that in today's society, you have to know the rules of "how to act in society" like a bible. Redeemed villain movies that have been good in my opinion were Despicable Me, Wreck It Ralph, and Megamind. One Movie from Disney, one from Dreamworks, and one from Illumination (or two if you count Deamworks and Illumination as Universal Studios).
4:22... for every antidote of a mistreated inmate you have, my Mom, who taught in prison so that inmates could earn a GED, has not a baker's dozen, but a baker's dozen of baker's dozens of inmates who sentences is so massively under the crimes that they committed, it makes your stance here sound at best laughable.
so you talked a lot about the messaging in media and yeah, while the generic "be yourself" thing is generic ive noticed it kind of mutated into something else. I mean the message people sometimes take away is "you are perfect as you are and you dont need to change a single thing about yourself, if you are alone because nobody wants to be your friend that has nothing to do with you and its everyone else who's bullying you" which that mentality just does not match reality. If you have no friends its probably because youre freaking annoying. Stop it. Just as an example. I just think the general messaging that has been dominant being that you know as long as its not hurting anyone you dont need to change your behavior is often dangerous because... theres a lot of things that dont hurt people and yet aught not be done.
