THE BAN LIST - THE GOOD, THE BAD & THE UGLY (sorry for late😞) | Heart of the Cast #13 

Don't let it happen again. Or you'll be hearing from our lawyers.

This is my favourite podcast because every time josh does a joke farfa asks if hes being serious and every time farfa does a joke he explains it immediatly to josh. Its hard to find this kind of anti chemistry. 10/10

The irony of Josh's comment at 1:04:00 is that Isolde was abused by every deck in existence for 6 years and finally got banned when it was being used in her own archetype.

Farfa has the most unhinged takes. He's the type to say "Okay guys I think it's time for me to drop my hot take, Japan can probably handle another atomic bomb and it's still not as bad as Block Dragon getting banned."

Farfa: man I feel like this other deck is dead now though- Josh: G O O D.

Now Omni negates are gone so we’re just getting hand looped for two instead 💯

"Mannadium basically doesn't exist anymore, right?" "...good" how can one man be this based

Skill expression has become my least favourite terms in YGO because it gets thrown around in contexts like “recognising summoning baronne early is skillful” as if that isn’t like the lowest bar of situational awareness. Like I guess

The problem with Pendulum pile decks and why they probably won't ever be viable past being Rogue level is two fold. The first issue is that Electrumite really is that important to making different Pendulum engines work cohesively together. Being able to get generic access to any engine you didn't open with while also being able to draw a card is just that good. They probably won't unban it ever either, or if they do it'll be too late like mentioned in the pod cast, because they released both Beyond and Exceed the Pendulum which together do most of what Electrumite was doing. Also, a lot of people really hate the Pendulum mechanic as a whole so the back lash from unbanning he would probably just be insane. The second issue with Pendulum pile decks is that every good Pendulum engine, with the exception of one or two depending on how big of an engine you play, requires at least one brick to be playable. Magicians, Zefras, Supreme Kings, Mythical Beasts, and Endymion are all great examples of good engines that all require different bricks to be able to play effectively. This mostly just means that you can and will brick or draw at least one of your bricks with less plays available more often than you would like and that goes a long way over the course of a longer tournament. If they unbanned Electrumite I'm sure someone would get a top here and there, but it would not be a common occurrence at larger events.

After testing around the new decks from LEDE with the new banlist, I'm actually pretty happy with it. Baronne and Savage leaving is a hit to a ton of rogue stuff, but I've had fun tying things back into their own archetypes. While Swordsoul, Adamancipator, and Mannadium have lost a lot of presence, it does open up a lot of room for experimentation, and really, thise decks can all manage Crimson Dragon with a bit of flexing, so they DO have a negate for the end board if they want to build it, it's just a pain. Removing Baronne and Savage have kind of forced the decks to look toward supplementary engines and I like that; I'd rather see Adamancipator playing Fossil Fusion, Swordsoul doing Denglong or Apple Dragon combos, or Mannadium Lightsworn than just Apo, Baronne, Dis Pater, and Savage. I think that combo/mid-range decks that summon heavily to get payoffs still need something that counters handtraps, but I think this could be a step in the right direction. I'm hoping that the removal or generic omnis and continuous floodgates means we're moving into a format that is less "all or nothing", but it really depends on future archetype design (please not just "unaffected" and "your opponent cannot"?) and whether the OCG/Master Duel banlists follow suit with the idea.

The weekend before the banlist, I played a house tournament with some buddies. I got hit with summon limit and/or anti spell every match. I purchased myself a playsets of those cards the next day. Stupid ass cards. Stupid ass game.

Nah, we should measure prices in "war rock cores"... a war rock core at the moment is between 4 and 5 Euros XD

Farfa streaming from heaven is wild 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Delicious Memory was put to 1 about a year ago on the banlist that dropped round 2 of YCS Philly

The funny thing is most of what they were saying doesn’t apply to salad at all. They never used any generic omnis, they don’t really lose that hard to nib anymore, and they don’t really turn on cards like tactics/thrust or lose particularly hard to board breakers.

1:21:38 Joshua didnt get his wish 😂

On the topic of the difference in philosophy between OCG and TCG banlists: I've noticed in other games such as one piece, and other older games that there seems to be a difference in philosophy between gaming cultures of Japanese and western games.. Usually western games seem to have more aggressive banlists than what the original banlist in Japan hits. I don't know if this is because the western formats are considered experimental in games that come from Japan, or if it's because westerners are more open to having wider sweeping changes than their Japanese audience? It's certainly a trend that is true, but I can't speak to the implications in gaming culture. If I had to draw a correlation, I'd guess it's that often times these card games originate in Japan, and we get the cards later than Japan which means we have a more 'stale' meta by the time the cards get to us, meaning that we are open to any sort of change-- positive or negative-- as long as it shakes up a stale meta.

I run 1x nemeses corridor and Colossus i’m my deck, it’s completely spashable. have something banished, cupid pitch and you have it

Farfa, i think your noise gate or filter ir whatever you are using is cutting off to much. You sound a little choppy when you are speaking. Great pod!

It just comes down to whether you only want to play meta decks or not. This change sucks for anyone not chasing the meta, and is great for those that do. There's not really a side that's in the "right".

Can’t believe they talked about Sinatra without showing him off

Mal to 3 for hero helps with the link heros and give extra body if you need a dark for dark law that's about it lol

Who megalol cares really shows joshes unique perspective, because the answer is alot of people who AREN'T comepeting for a world championship, which is ya know a majority of the playerbase. I can see why he wouldn't, and its not like everyone does but they also just reprinted the cards in RC.

I sold my Trident Dragion for 50 bucks about a month ago thinking it would crash after a reprint would be announced...it's almost tripled since lmao

I remember just post BOSH playing like "25" card cyber dragons

Purrely has Rarity collection II that they want to sell, I suppose as they gutted the price of the collectors rare core with reprinting all of the old collectors rares in pretty much the same rarity in Rarity collection II, they wanted to throw Purrely players a bone for their losses.

I like Farfa’s look

Best Pendulum normal summon is Melodious Refrain, and you can't use Kirin in that engine

Naughty boys uploading so late☝🏼

I think that Konami TCG and OCG don't really communicate in a way that makes timely reprints possible, because if they did then we would have gotten Dragion as part of OTS24 or Maze of Millenia already, as that would have worked out great with a coordinated product schedule. Konami OCG just would have needed to say to the TCG side to keep 1 reprint slot for Maze of Millenia open for Trident Dragion, like 2 weeks before they announced Tenpai in the OCG (which was on december 11th if I remember correctly) and they could have fit it in with no issue.

Kirin is welcome back to the pendulum pile. normal summon is still Joker or Darkwurm, Pend Witch might be a good backup. 3 bunbuku is very worth now, having a variety of levels for Beyond when going 2nd wins you games, pendulum is at its best at level 4 and 7 so having more levels is great. you can send Kirin with Magician's Souls and summon it later with Selene. or Exceed the Pendulum if you can pend summon level 6. in my experience the dracoslayer engine is best because it's the most slippery and uses the normal summon the least. majesty paladin is part of them so you can probably get into majespecter searches to get to Kirin free my homie Electrumite!!

I like the direction they are going with the bans but it feels like this came at a bad time with Tenpai now legal. Spell and trap negates are at a premium and without Savage or Baronne it makes it hard to interact with Summoning and Kaimen unless you are specifically siding cards like Judgement, which sounds terrible going into a deck that can overkill even through Prosp, or quick play removal like Cosmic or Twin Twisters to remove the field spell. Maybe it is for the best as going second strategies haven't really been good since Striker during TOSS format, but it feels heavily forced.

The emoji in the title just screams canvas painting if ykyk

real ones watched it on Spotify last week

After starting to ban the generic Omni-Negates, Konami could now print generic outs to certain cards. Maybe a generic Link3 saying "declair a card name, this card can't be summond/activated this turn". So you can go through additional hoops to make your combo safe to Nibiru, or another Trap. Or maybe a Link2 that even can negate lingering effects to give combo-decks a way throught shifter/MaxxC. Of cause with hight draw-backs. (Like only be able to activate the effects of one declaired Monter-Type until the end of next turn, or only doing up to 7 Summons this turn)

As long as fire is the best deck we need shifter at 3

Good episode but far too many ads for continuity. Had to rewind a few times due to them interrupting the discussion of the ban list

farfa be like: OH MY GOD I LOVE SHAVARA I WOULD LITERALLY BE POPPED BY SHAVARA, I LOVE WHEN THINGS ARE BEING POPPED!

Josh so entertaining

Now to be honest, Konami really be holding us hostage. They ban stuff to make us happy and proceed to print absolut bangers to abuse the playerbase 38:17

Linkuriboh is in federal prison 😳

I think the issue with getting rid of Baronne and savage is that there are so many insane going 2nd cards now that if you get nibbed in a lot of decks there’s a very solid chance you just die. Or you get lightning stormed and die. Or evenly’d and if your deck doesn’t have insane follow up you just lose. Going 2nd shouldn’t be an auto loss but they’ve made so many powerful cards to make going 2nd decent and now removing counterplay to them kind of tips the scales a bit. It’s going to feel so bad getting sacked by nib, lightning storm and evenly now with nothing you can really do to stop them in many cases. And if the “solution” is “play a different deck” then that’s just lame. People like some playstyles and not others. I’d rather just stop playing the game than have to play stun because everything else is bad in the format. It’s just frustrating.

I will say these are good hits. I wanna see them hit d force. Since we’re getting the extra Mali D force is sacky and leads to unfun game states in hero It isn’t broken but turning plasma into a minus 2 and making it harder to take off the field is kinda ass. It’s literally the second best protection in the game. And a skill drain that requires two pieces of removal and a body and a monster steal is a little strong for a net minus 2. Removing dforce balances plasma to a powerful option to drop on your opponent but not an inhernt win condition. Again it’s not cause it’s broken I loved dforce at first. I just realized it leads to a less fun game.

This episode really had to happen before the YCS, but then the last episode had to be before the banlist anyway so, is this being late going to be a theme in this series? I hope this one just a one time exceptional delay

18:45 Striker players in shambles

to Josh's comment about respecting control taking cards like Talents and being more conservative about making something like an Apo without having a spell negate to back it up; i'm not sure if that's actually going to happen because decks also have extremely strong pushes nowadays that if you voluntarily end on a weak board without being handtrapped, you might just die to an all gas hand that will use that talents anyway to fuel that OTK. Talents itself is a pretty problematic card that should be addressed at some point, especially going first. There are just bigger things to worry about for the time being. With that said, I think hitting those generic omnis and floodgates are 100% positive. I disagree with Farfa implying that things shouldn't change just because he doubts Konami can hit cards that consequently become too strong too slowly; inaction just because you are afraid of potential butterfly effects that you can easily reverse just is not the way to go. It also seems like Farfa is really into combo decks that effectively FTKs your opponent going first if unhindered, especially those that are able to put up an Apo/Savage/Baronne on or before 5th summon. I think those decks, meta or not, were the worst decks to deal with because you can't actually hand trap them at a point where it is actually effective unless you have multiples, and you simply have to pray that it works.

Could errata Savage to specifically require either a dragon or rocket tuner and that would help limit it's usage, and keep it relevant in dragon decks like D-Link and Dragunity since those strategies are now more prone to interruption. I'm kinda with Josh for getting more decks some in archetype negation/combo protection that makes them more viable for modern formats. I have a friend who's a Mannadium player and as soon as he got it max rarity these hits came down.

It's nice to see Farfa bring up some of the downsides of having Baronne and Savage banned. For the overall health of the game, they are very good hits, but it's not exactly sunshine and rainbows for a lot of casual players. If both sides just had the same take, there'd be no discussion.

So much yapping. I missed it so much

This sucks for you guys, in China we got three rarities of trident reprints in LEDE for simplified Chinese... What is TCG doing?

Tenpai won’t last long if dragion gets a reprint. They’ll nuke it if it’s “budget”

lmao Josh is just happy that he doesnt have to worry about rogue anymore. I agree with Farfa, a lot of decks were killed by this banlist but they weren't meta decks. This is why I'm playing pokemon now. At least there I know my investment wont get randomly shot down at any moment the company feels it wants to make more money. Sure it will be rotated out but expect to get a couple years of play out of it at least.

Sharvara where 💀

Rarity collection 2 is reprinting almost all the purrely cards

Josh never truly loved Raye 💔

so nice of the insane asylum to let farfa continue to stream

I really don't get why people dislike specifically semi-limits so much. Most - if not all - points i've heard against it apply to limits just as well.

MadgeLate

If they didn't ban Savage and limited ash instead it would have been a 10/10 ban list but not hitting snake eye main deck at all was very questionable

If your deck is nothing withoud baronne+savage then you dont deserve them

Give me block

Is it too hot of a take if I think it's time for Ash Blossom to get banned some time soon? Konami is at a point where the new archetypes are actively designed to play around it by placing their target directly to the field, so pretty soon it'll pretty much only hurt older strategies, it's just restricting future card design at this point.

Why does Farfa hate Fenrir so much? As a going second staple is amazing, and this game needs more stuff to make going second viable. You could argue you can also use it going first, but going second is a lot better. (BTW I don't even like Kashtira as a deck, I'm glad Arise Heart is banned.)

First

“Manna doesn’t exist anymore right ? “ “ good “ and runick should be banned from existence then. Deal ? Deal

So glad that Baronne and Savage are banned. I genuinely think there should always be risk to discourage decks from summoning more than 4 times. Nibiru is my favorite handtrap because it keeps fields small and manageable and no deck besides Generaider and Dual Avatar should really need to summon 5 times. While I'm not the biggest fan of how generic the Nemeses monsters make both of these cards, I do like the shift from Generic floodgates to archetypal ones. I don't really have a problem with most floodgates as long as I don't see then in every deck they are totally acceptable.

Better banlists would have Runick cards banned

I don't think apo is a big deal. It only negates monster effects and it's not that hard to play around. I'd rather see it over baronne or savage in most circumstances. Same goes for crystal wing, which I imagine some decks are going to start playing as a substitute.

Free anti Spell PLEASE! How am I supposed to beat infinite power spells as a control deck? Just by existing across the table my opponent can thrust into duster or some other OP board breaker and it's gg on sight

Quit the yapping Nadir

farfa has 0 good takes since the podcast exists, im just watching a reasonable man arguing with a muppet talking incoherently

my misc still at 1 🥲

kind of a misconception to think that mali wouldnt do a ton for heroes at 3. having 3 malicious actually gives you an insane boost to your one card combos to make it much easier to go through all the link routes/ fusions to still end on full playable boards/ situations off of something like a vyon normal summon. they should just errata both malicious and fusion destiny to locking you into nothing but heroes the entire turn theyre used. however, putting malicious to 3 might be a weird bandaid that they should just rip off and actually "modernize" hero by giving them a set of main deck masked heroes (and maybe an XYZ, synchro or new link to help them with the new playstyle) rather than depending on this ever growing weird evolving patchwork that "werks" because of how decent omni hero is as a concept, but its also so jank and clearly ramshackle with its main playstyle being to deny or avoid interaction at all costs (either OTK or floodgate city) I really like vision hero increases ability to work as a weird monster-trapcard that actually lets you play on the opponents turn. Do more stuff like that and maybe build these imaginary main deck masked heroes to make the archetype a lot more like that- interactive, flowing, and less about a 10 hour long single turn full combo. Maybe give the new cards a way to search an in archetype hero fusion (something thats treated as poly but only fuses heroes?) thats a quickplay so you can maybe set/ search it from the new cards and actually fuse together your stuff during the opponents turn?