I always find it funny that the past 2 CEOs of the NCBE became lawyers without having to take a bar but tout that it's the only way to make sure lawyers are good.
She is, of course... painfully correct... the really painful part is the curve... it is how they control the numbers of who gets to become an attorney.
Especially if you're talking about California. I'm about to go for my fourth time taking the exam. I know what the numbers are and I'm NOT optimistic. The most common thing I would hear leaving my previous bar exams? "Well, see you at the next one!" Looking around the room, you know that 70-80% of those in the room will not pass. And that includes the Harvards, Yales, Georgetowns AND the school that I went to, which is quite a bit further down on the list.
Exactly right! I’m a lawyer in Supreme Court of India. All your skills and talents are recognised when you get judgements in the favour of your clients.😅
I failed the bar 2x in CA, 1x in PA, 1x in NJ (I took these together) and 1x in DC. I was painfully close in PA (failed by 9 points) and DC (failed by 6 points). I passed the multistate portion twice. I just did not do well on a couple of the essays and on one of the practicals...I became a teacher, not so much even because I couldn't eventually pass it, I just came to the realization that I did not like the type of work. That being said, I think more has to be done to figure out WHO should be going to law school in the first place if fail rates are this large. I took on a massive amount of loan debt, was given an ABA-accredited law degree, then ran into the bar exam problem. The loans are essentially non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, so you are stuck. Public service loan forgiveness will alleviate my particular situation, but I can imagine that there are a lot of people similarly situated who are not in PSLF-eligible gigs. Greta says, hey, no one dies, you can just keep retaking it. REALLY? Has anyone examined the price to retake? I think CA is up to $700-plus for 2020 for each administration. Plus you have expenses related to bar prep courses, which is going to run in the thousands... how about the opportunity costs of delaying something else to keep taking a shot at the exam... thanks for hearing my rant (lol)
Last time I took the exam was 2020 (I lost track, I'm so burnt out). It was $850 for the exam, which includes $150 "laptop fee". Add to that the cost of three nights (later just two) for the hotel room, which could be anywhere from $100 to over $400 a night. And do that twice a year knowing that most of the people in that room will not pass.
Barred in VA for 10 years now, never had anything I learned from taking the bar help professionally. She is exactly the right. Some of the smartest people fail, but many end up passing and become much more successful attorneys than others who passed on the first try. It’s just an arbitrary way to control the number of barred attorneys. Should be controlled based on the ethics, passion, creativity, etc. of a candidate instead.
Really, the only people who flunk the bar exam are those that don’t freak out? What about those that didn’t finish their bar prep course and didn’t really study? Or the ones that only did a handful of practice exams? You’re saying those that didn’t fully prepare for the exam will pass so long as they don’t freak out?
In some states theres a limit on how many retakes for the bar exam. My question is: Would you say the same about the LSAT being a scam also? That once you're accepted into law school and graduate, wouldn't this mean that your lsat score doesnt matter anymore? Why must law schools put a huge emphasis on the LSAT, while once you're accepted into law school that is basically a scam because you're over that stage.
No such restriction here in California. You can take the exam as many times as you're willing to keep studying and paying for it. You can take it twice a year forever.
Very true. I remember taking my real property final and the second half of the second essay dealt with a notice statute and 5 different parties. So I had about 20 minutes to figure this out. It took me about two minutes to drown out the voice in my head telling me that if someone ever comes into my office with this problem and that I have only 20 minutes to help them, then I'd just tell them they were fucked. I take the bar next year and that voice in my head, the one that knows that much of the law I have to [re-]learn for the bar isn't actually the law, is still yelling at me that this exam is beyond stupid. Knowing that might be my biggest obstacle.
They said third time is a charm,have officially pass my bar exam now. To all my repeat test taker I pray y'all make it some day but will advise you keep reading and believing in yourself ☺️🎉
I just failed my Bar Exam.😭😭😓 I cannot begin to articulate the level of embarrassment and heartache I'm feeling. 😥 I'm confident that I will be a good Layer. I just need to get past this And move on.
The BAR exam is a panel of Jews who make you pledge your allegiance to the British Admiralty Register - B A R. Once you pledge your allegiance, they own you. The BAR owns you and the BAR belongs to the City of London Corporation, which in turn belongs to the Vatican.
My #1 Essay Hack: Not answering the questions in full 2. Not IRAC'ing - make it obvious you have all four items. Sometimes you have facts that lead to a counter argument, or you are missing facts for every element and need additional commentary, however you should have an issue, rule, analysis and conclusion for each issue you address. 3. The conclusion doesn't precisely reflect the issue - Issue, Battery, "Thus, Al committed battery," short and sweet. 4. "Because" or "since" in your conclusion - these words tend to show analysis, and should be relegated to the analysis paragraph. 5. Giant paragraphs. With PR being a potential exception, most analysis can be done in a few sentences. While some analysis will require longer writings, make sure that it's the number of elements / facts that determine your writing length, and not simply a repeating of the same thing, or a run on sentence - kind of like this one. 6. Conclusory writing. If your analysis simply restates the facts, you are demanding that your reader come to their own conclusion. Element because fact wins the day!
Yes, but the conversation needs to be put out there so others don't fall for it. My opinion has been you should only need four years of uh undergrad then an exam that is not made harder than it needs to be. Moreover, limit the number of law licenses given out per year to mitigate the glutton of lawyers.
What then becomes of me as a paraprofessional? Its the only offered option for us to really put 3 decades of paralegalism to use and obtaining the right to give legal advise. The scam part is i pay to take it and even if i pass i still am not allowed to argue in front of the bar.
This "somebody has to flunk" was what made me hesitate to take the exam, because as we have the possibility of taking it again and again, for some of us this takes an economic breakdown everytime.
I believe you. I petitioned for a custody modification on my own. The judge/dependent's lawyer treated me poorly in the courtroom. They thought because I didn't go to law school that I was a stupid woman. I made it clear that I was strictly petitioning for custody modification, i.e., not support modification. They didn't understand the flow of words, legal definitions, and statutes. Different procedures/statutes for different modifications. Personally, I think they got upset because I went over the "allotted" time. I surmise they have a quota to meet.
This is the kind of pep talk my mom or grandma would give me. Her tone rises but her facial expressions do not, she is charming enough if her tone is a bit forced at times. But Thomas Seymour makes a very valid point. She ultimately says someone has to fail and that will probably be you until you start thinking like I said and just chill, or you can take a rather aggressive and odd interpretation like Mr. J. C.
@@Joseluisyourface What's odd about standing up to people who are running a scam and destroying lives. It's odd that people like you are too cowardly and apathetic to do anything.
@@Joseluisyourface If you are an adult, you really need to stop thinking of all women as people who could be your parent. Women are not going to law school or becoming lawyers to pretend to be your mommy. I don't agree with what she said, but this speech is only about the bar exam.
Here in California, the reason why the pass rate is so low is because anybody can sit for the bar exam. Also, one poster is correct. Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln never went to law school or took the bar exam and became lawyers.
today i had the bar exam,i knew everything but when i was at school my anxiety started and i knew i was fucked,i forgot almost everything and when i looked at it i have noticed every bad thing,so thanks anxiety i would have done that
Not a scam. It tests mental organization, identifying issues, write / type getting to the point quickly, making tough choices, and by golly, legal knowledge, all in a pressure setting.
So, you're saying that Greta Van Susteren doesn't know what she's talking about? Similar to her "closet" example, as a lawyer, no client will EVER walk into your office and demand a full issue spotting, analysis and conclusion of their case in just one hour. No client will EVER ask you a legal question and expect the correct answer from you in less than the 1.8 minutes you are allowed to spend on each of the multiple choice questions. So, yes. The bar exam, at least in California, is a scam. It is specifically designed to weed out as many as it can. California does not NEED more lawyers. It already has more than it can handle. There are tons of unemployed lawyers here. Not even talking about people like ME who attended a part-time evening law school and not doing so until my mid-late 50s. Good luck for ME, right?
It has to do with your ability to handle stress, organize your thoughts, and think logically. You obviously have not done any empirical research on the exam itself. It may not teach you "how to be" a lawyer, but it will teach you how to think like one.
@J. C. Really. I agree with your previous statement but not sure about this one. I bet we could have a good discussion. I'm always one to open my mind to different viewpoints.
I'm just going to say this. I practice Law in México. There's no Bar exam or any regulation for the practice of Law and the quality of lawyers in Mexico is terrible. 5 out of 10 don't even know the Constitution. I admire common law systems and the importance of the bar exam. Lawyers in common law systems are just better because of how demanding their rules are.
I disagree. The bar exam weeds out people who can't think or write fast enough, and reach legal conclusions quickly, under pressure. Bottom line, it doesn't matter which law school, who you know, law review...If you can't pass, you can't practice.
thanks Greta you are doing good job at this job please Greta come surprise me ok my big brother just pass away and I don't have a new friend and right now I need one in my life thanks Greta would you be my new friend
Wow. I honestly don't think I've ever heard somebody of your stature be so obtuse. I would respectfully disagree with almost everything you said. How many times as a lawyer have you faced a time crunch, how many times have you had to quickly find a reason for objecting to certain evidence during trial, and how often are you required to follow the judge's instructions or the court's rules, and I'm curious know, as a lawyer, is it necessary to read things carefully. Well the bar exam prepares you for all of that. Logical thinking, staying calm, reading carefully, analyzing factual situations. Not only has the bar exam prepared me for the practice of law, it changed my entire perspective on life in such a positive way. I'm not quite sure of your motivation to bash the test, But what you're saying to these students, if even one of them listens to you, you've done such a great disservice. Come sit in my class for one session and I guarantee I change your mind. I wish you all the best.
@@yngclothing It teaches you how to think, how to problem solve, how to distinguish between material and immaterial facts, and how to recognize what facts a case might hinge on.
