The Baroque violin and bow | Netherlands Bach Society

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What are the differences between the modern and Baroque violin and bow? And why are we still interested to know how these instruments used to be? Violinists Shunske Sato and Pieter Affourtit make a comparison between modern and Baroque violins and bows in this short documentary for All of Bach.
Recorded for the project All of Bach on 10th October 2019. If you want to help us complete All of Bach, please subscribe to our channel bit.ly/2vhCeFB and consider donating bit.ly/2uZuMj5.
All of Bach is a project of the Netherlands Bach Society / Nederlandse Bachvereniging, offering high-quality film recordings of the works by Johann Sebastian Bach, performed by the Netherlands Bach Society and its guest musicians. Visit our free online treasury for more videos and background material allofbach.com/en/. For concert dates and further information go to www.bachvereniging.nl/nederla....
Shunske Sato, violin
Pieter Affourtit, violin

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23 окт 2019

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Комментарии : 148

@Leedaleeable 4 года назад

5:51 "Wound" strings, not "round" strings.

@bach 4 года назад

Indeed, thanks for correcting!

@YapLapWombat 4 года назад

Yes ... also, it does sound to me like he is saying "around" a few seconds earlier -- which the subtitles correctly include. While around and wound are fundamentally different, around is not at all wrong to my sensibilities for this context, for describing how the string is formed: it makes for a good explanation that is provided through simple and clear language. The later mention that you bring up, I agree: subtitles are incorrect at that point, while it is clearly heard that "wound" is being said, correctly.

@harrysarada2710 3 года назад

But pathetic, u think?

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

@@bach They're Flatwound Strings & luckily Aquila now makes RG Red Synthetic Strings that can replace Gut Strings due to how much sturdier they are.

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

@@YapLapWombat They're actually Flatwound Strings correct? Those Strings are metal wound around a Synthetic, or Steel Core. There are Modern Gut String Sets too where the Highest String is Steel & the other 3 are Gut wound in Metal.

@PhillipRubin 2 года назад

Shunske should start a youtube channel, very fascinating to listen to

@therightmusic7639 4 года назад

Yes, the horse analogy makes perfect sense. The sound is definitely different: the more organic the better. They are beautiful instruments and yes having different bows and different instruments stimulate your creativity and expressive skills. It is also a more direct connection to the time when those compositions where created. Wise choice. Bravi!!

@dsoworks501 4 года назад

I was the accompanist and arranger to "Rubinoff and His Violin" for 15 years. In 1929 he purchased the "Marlin 1731" Stradivarius violin. In 1984 we gave 45 minute concert together where he plays his Strad. If you care to see it, go to "Rubinoff and His Violin in Concert - RU-vid". He was age 86. Thank my daughter, , Kathryn, for finding and posting this lost treasure. It was filmed live at Scott;s Oquaga Lake House in the Catskills during a severe thunderstorm. He relates stories about his friendships with violin masters who are long deceased. That is the same place where a good portion of The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel was filmed!

@pau9553 4 года назад

As a pianist I'm so glad to see that documentary. I learned a lot about violin. Very good content.

@redbrian3655 4 года назад

What a wonderful analogy of the Toyota as compared to the horse and carriage 7:04 - 7:40 what a difference!!! 11:32 Thank you for pointing-out that there was "no uniformity... anarchy"

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

5:35 When WW2 hit, players have switched from Gut Strings to Flatwound Strings. On our Modern Day Violin String sets the E String is Steel (Plain or Wound) & the 3 Lowest Strings are Metal Wound around Steel (or Nylon or even Gut) because they last longer. But even then for Baroque players, Aquila now makes F-Red Sugar Cane Strings which sound like Gut Strings but they also last longer.

@infledermaus 10 месяцев назад

Wait just a dog gone minute here! That one on the left is nothing more than a fiddle! 😉😁 Fantastic video! Thank you! Things I never knew! One thing I do know is that I much prefer the sound of baroque violins, gut strings and baroque bows. The first time I heard baroque music (my favorite genre) played on baroque instruments, I almost slumped out of my seat onto the floor the sound was so sweet, so mellow. Delicious! I thought, "Oh, my, that's quite different, that's magical!"

@reolio8634 2 года назад

i've been playing the violin for around ten years and only came to know about baroque violins recently, thank you so much for the insightful documentary! it really helps you understand baroque pieces better and see the reason why they were performed the way they were performed, and that is because of the way the instrument is made. fascinating!

@phwbooth 4 года назад

Not only glorious, well-performed and beautiful music from the Netherlands Bach Society, but superb education, as well. Congratulations, once again.

@leporello7 4 года назад

What a wondefully done video! Such a great mix of information, art, and "gut feel".

@somedude3819 4 года назад

leporello7 bleep bloop up duup

@RockStarOscarStern634 2 года назад

@@somedude3819 we have aquila f-reds which sound the same but cost about half as much

@ma859 2 года назад

It’s interesting how with baroque instruments Bach sounds more modern and up to date! Yes, surely after hearing the lightness of the sound of the baroque orchestra in for example the Brandenburg performances of the NBS, I can’t go back to the modern instrument orchestra anymore. Definitely prefer the baroque instrument sound. The sound of the baroque violin played by Satosan rises up to and reaches heaven. I love that moment.

@goodvibes5220 4 месяца назад

Super interesting, I had no idea that there were these differences, even though I had been playing a string instrument for years. Thank you 🙏

@SurfinScientist 2 года назад

Nice mini-documentary! I love Sato-san's sense of humor. His spoken Dutch, BTW, is surprisingly good.

@wolkowy1 4 года назад

An excellent upload, and so much needed in teaching, understanding and performing! From the general insights created by the art of replication (those of "attentive to our surroundings"), through the comparison between the old and modern violin and its effect on performing, interpretation and sound (as explained by Sato), till the wonderful redirect of attention to the crucial importance of the bow on the violin's sound (as explained by the bow-maker) and the 'love-triangle' between the instrument, the player and the bow. The end of this upload deals with the "anarchy" "no uniformity" in the old orchestras's bows, which challenge our ideas about historical authenticity and 'right/wrong' in performing. Thanks NBS for adding "more colour and ideas and possibilities" (in Sato's own words) to the world of music. Bravo!

@willianwallacepereiradiogo4354 3 года назад

I love this Channel. I love the baroque bow, baroque violin, I love all of bach. It's so good, it's fascinating 😌🎻

@cletedavis5849 2 года назад

Outstanding documentary! All violin students should watch this, and I will make sure mine do!

@coopersmom8339 Год назад

I love your channel. I listen all day everyday.. so therapeutic. I even leave it on on my night table so I can sleep with it... Your channel became a part of my life. Thank you very much..

@timvdhorst2398 4 года назад

Their passion in life! 🙏

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

The Chin rest came around 1820 & Paganini was known for using it, but then again they still had Gut Strings. Steel & Synthetic Strings weren't available until the 20th Century. Of course in the 19th Century they made Geared Tuners for Violin which made tuning the instrument (they still do) even easier w/o the need to have fine tuners on the Tailpiece.

@ilpretterossorocks 4 года назад

Fantastic video!!! So much details and behind the scenes information that most people do not know. Wonderful!!

@Testacabeza 4 года назад

Thanks so much for this.I didn't know you could make a living as a bow maker :) Also, the baroque violin is so beautiful, the colour, the motifs, the shape.

@vnekliaev 6 месяцев назад

Fascinating! Thank you very much!

@bonnie04 Год назад

Delightful video. Both violinist and bow luthier are so knowledgeable and articulate. Thank you!

@marcioalmeida3909 4 года назад

It's a wonderful musical instrument, i'm from 🇧🇷.

@LlamaFina 4 года назад

Increíble mini documental! Gracias por compartirlo.

@kkamiyasatorukamiya8154 4 года назад

Interesting and informative. Good video. Message from Japan 16/Nov/2019

@lizs4644 4 года назад

Wonderful! I love how well informed this is. I learned so much. I am a big fan of the baroque music and as a flutist, I would love to see a similar video on the baroque flute. Blessings and love this All of Bach project

@Bouncybon 4 года назад

Isn't that 'flautist'?

@lizs4644 4 года назад

@@Bouncybon in Europe "flautist" is correct. In the USA (where I am from) both "flutist" as well as flautist" are correct, however in the USA "flutist" is the more common. The thing is, that where I am from, amongst those of us who play the flute, we refer to ourselves as "flute players"🙂😃

@mikeystevenson6982 4 года назад

Thank you! From the Mojave Desert!

@karlheinz4363 4 года назад

Great! Please do more of this videos 😊

@johnfenner347 4 года назад

Most Marvellous Presentation. Superbly Done. Masterly !. I Am Informed !. All Good Wishes.

@CactusVargus 4 года назад

I learned a lot in this video, thanks!!!

@aleazk 4 года назад

What a delightful video!

@RockStarOscarStern634 Год назад

7:04 That Tuning is called "Cajun Tuning" which is a whole step below Modern GDAE so it's FCGD

@harryclawson3136 3 года назад

I do not play the violin. This is still really cool and interesting. Sato’s play is beautiful.

@bcwilliams9242 4 года назад

OUTSTANDING!!!

3 года назад

Such beatiful vídeo. Congratulations!

@billh1983 4 года назад

Thank you for the wonderful and informative presentation. I had asked this very question of the two set fellows after watching some of the NBS Bach RU-vid videos but never got the answer.

@RockStarOscarStern634 2 года назад

6:30 As a result with Modern Steel/Synthetic Strings you get a more direct sound so to compensate for this you'll need to use more vibrato to keep it going.

@RockStarOscarStern634 Год назад

5:27 Yeah Nylon wound in Silver/Aluminum, sometimes it's steel.

@VvVN91 3 года назад

I played in school and always wondered why everyone had trouble getting consistent sound out of the violins. Because the modern bow requires more action from your hand. Honestly it seems to me the baroque violin with the baroque bow has a much more beautiful sound, and has more complexity. Wish we had these in class. I played for 6 years in second and first chair but Sadly it’s been many years since I played and I sorta lost the ability to play. Maby one day I’ll learn again

@Musicienne-DAB1995 4 года назад

Excellent video!

@carolinareguerofullier6595 Год назад

¡Verdaderamente genial! GRACIAS por presentarnos de primera mano cómo mejorar los diferentes sonidos y cómo mejorarlos con cada uno de esos bellos instrumentos. Es una gozada aprender y disfrutar con tan mágicas creaciones. ¡FELICITACIONES MAESTROS!🌝⚘

@euledj79 4 года назад

Awesome! Thank you

@unagondolaunremo 4 года назад

thanks a lot, you are making wonderful video, thank you!

@Gacsxis 3 года назад

Amazing video!

@rayff7740 4 года назад

Awesome

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

7:04 Gigue from Bach's D Minor Partita on a Baroque Violin

@brunomillot2919 4 года назад

Now I want to make bows...

@Alby2990 4 года назад

So interesting!

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

7:16 Gigue from Bach's D Minor Partita played on a Modern Violin Strung w/ Gut Strings.

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

The sound is still different because the neck is at a sharper angle.

@partitabach9955 3 года назад

샤콘느 너무 멋져요.. 사토님 음악 잘 듣고 있습니다.

@sandyblond20 4 года назад

Having a master violin collection of over one hundred violins and countless hundreds of bows I play the Baroque Design/Disguised Modern Bow. My Baroque Bows making for allowances of expression, sophistication and beauty out presenting a modern piece or old one. My being trained by Jaap Schroeder means the patrons are most involved by the way a Baroque Violin Bow does not ever become long, dull, slow and pedantic for them, so they're always included in my every performance@!!! : ) Byeee

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

There are also Synthetic Core Violin Strings which were originally designed as a replacement to gut strings.

@javierdiazsantana 3 года назад

Even thou i am a cellist this video got me wishing to learn how to play the Gigue of the second partita.

@oicfas4523 Год назад

5:46 I like the guy in the Midnight shirt.

@RockStarOscarStern634 Год назад

7:17 That's the same setup Paganini used.

@entornohumano7945 3 года назад

Thanks because of this precious information about violins and bows. The sound, the shape, the light and darkness, textures and colour of sound is diferent as beautiful it is...thanks once again.

@michaelreaper666 4 года назад

Thanks ..that was interesting .. :)

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

4:37 So on a Baroque Violin we have Gut Strings, where as the Modern Violin we use Flatwound Strings who's core is Nylon, Gut, or even Steel.

@bh9257 4 года назад

Wow

@voraciousreader3341 3 года назад

This is really interesting. I remember when I was studying voice, flute and organ in college the big “deal” made by instrumentalists who demanded “pure” performance practice on “authentic” instruments for Baroque music backwards....there was a huge and not very polite debate, mostly on the period instruments side who rather reminded me of the hardcore vegan or vegetarian proponents. They felt NO music by Bach or other composers should be played on modern instruments, for example, and my organ teacher said facetiously that she guessed no organists in the US would be learning to play Bach, then, bc we don’t have “period” organs! As with most crazes that wear out, you find that it’s a nice change to hear the really old instruments and the reproductions, but that the classics from any era sound great on modern instruments, too.

@justme197 2 года назад

Passie, prachtig, puur!

@TenorCantusFirmus 3 года назад

A very thoroughly-researched and argumented video, but I cannot wrap my mind around how orchestras could have allowed using multiple types of bow being used even by players sitting at the same stand; I know there were much different circumstances than we are used today, but since different bows can make the same instrument feeling and sounding different, I cannot think having different types of bow being used at the same time as some kind of a great confusion.

@DUNCZI 3 года назад

IT was great due the idea to remember old instruments, and the person was good performer due in his own amazing insturment and he was good about sepaking. What could I say, just so, it was very useful. It is the time contemporarian composers write new pieces for this, almost forsaken instruments....

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

They're the same Shape cause they have 4 Strings & 2 Sound Holes. Of course when Brahms, Mozart, & Beethoven all wrote music for Bowed instruments, they still had Gut Strings meaning all the Older repertoire was still there.

@FelipeVinhalMus 4 года назад

So you don't post music? I'm glad I subscribed :)

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

5:42 I've seen that one & it has Gut Strings.

@javierdiazsantana 3 года назад

by the way: I am a cellist and i have to say, holding the baroque bow and playing staccato on gut or at least synthetic core strings, is way easier than with a modern bow and with metal strings. Very true.

@TheAtheist22 3 года назад

Sago is amazing.

@yuichisudo3084 4 года назад

すごい

@olavolennon6399 4 года назад

Poderia ter legenda em português

@user-zg8je6bx7p 4 года назад

what is the chinrest that is being used in the violin held by pieter in 2:24?

@angelabrady9342 3 месяца назад

Lovely explanation of the impact of the bows, and how the baroque bow speaks. Also impressive is the language switching: I wonder how many languages Sato is fluent in? Dutch, English, Japanese, baroque and classical (or are these last two just a dialect?)

@bach 3 месяца назад

If you see music as a language, baroque and classical could indeed be dialects. And yes: Shunske Sato loves languages and can even speak a few more fluently

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

My Cello is a Yinfente 5 String Acoustic-Electric Cello.

@noelic6744 4 года назад

Oh god, I've sent in my violin for some minor repairs and watching these videos just give me sudden urges throughout the video to take out my violin and try a bunch of things. It's such a torture to not have a violin by my side! Anyway, I loved this review. I really wanna try gut strings now and see how a baroque bow works. I probably won't choose to perform with a baroque bow no matter how suited it is for the piece (I don't wanna get used to it or get too accustomed to it) but I really do wanna try it cause it looks...easier?

@mladenchavdarov6940 3 года назад

Which gut violin strings would you reccomend for Baroque? Do Eudoxa works?

@elizeumiliorini7356 4 года назад

Quanto custa esses violinos. ?

@ladelcolectivo 3 года назад

How is the process to make a gut string?

@joseleonido3479 29 дней назад

"This may be a stupid example" *Proceeds to make the best example*

@vacuumlover1 Год назад

7:41 If I’m going to play *BAAHHCHH*

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

Interestingly Paganini's Violin is a Modern Violin Strung w/ Gut Strings so you're getting that Vibe.

@marcovasconcelos918 4 года назад

missed talking about the types of horsehair? black horsehair can also be used on a violin or viola bow?

@jeremiah3355 4 года назад

Yes black Horsehair can be used, as long as the strands are in good condition, as well as the horse

@comtaar2245 Год назад

Interesting because the fingerboard of this particular baroque violin is very short. You see them with longer necks too. Is there more information on this?

@bach Год назад

This is indeed a very short fingerboard. The fingerboard length of baroque violins was shorter than now anyway because there was less high playing and less in positions. The length also varied much more from violin to violin than now. And the fingerboard of the Kleyman on loan to Shunske Sato is indeed really short.

@Thomas-wx7jz Год назад

What piece of Bach is he playing at the very end?

@Schlomoliang 2 года назад

Nice shirt

@JiHyungPark1 4 года назад

Could I know what version of Bwv 1006 from 1:25 please please? I searched Shunske Sato but I cannot find

@bach 4 года назад

The performance of BWV 1006 by Shunske Sato has yet to be published. We will release the complete Partitas and sonatas in the coming weeks. Stay tuned!

@TheAtheist22 3 года назад

The Dutch, what a Noble society.

@RockStarOscarStern634 3 года назад

3:52 High G on the Baroque Violin, but on the Modern Violin we can go another Octave Higher than that.

@willemdefesch1687 4 года назад

Ik heb de heer Sato nooit eerder Nederlands horen spreken op dit kanaal. Hij spreekt het uitstekend.

@RhondaBranneky 3 года назад

Slimme vent die al lang woont in NL!

@gregoryjean7140 4 года назад

Does anyone know the piece he was playing at the beginning of the video

@bach 4 года назад

Sarabande from Partita no. 2 (BWV 1004)

@gregoryjean7140 4 года назад

Thank you

3 года назад

💜❤️💜❤️💜❤️

@lawrence18uk 4 года назад

I hope you might be able to say something perhaps in another video about the the way that the gut strings have have a more complex vibration pattern including particularly, or because of, the torsional vibrations ie the twisting movement when you use the bow. I find this particularly affects the way the string speaks at the beginning of each note, which on a model string is very immediate, but the gut string has a 'speaking' start-up sound, which basically makes it more difficult to play fast notes... (imho!)

@NikolaiRogich 7 месяцев назад

Says “Maybe it’s a stupid example…” then gives astonishingly insightful example of horse and carriage vs car - how we notice different things etc.

@deirdre108 2 года назад

What pitch are these violins tuned to?

2 года назад

415 and maybe 440

@-Alvin 3 года назад

3:52

@felixwong9761 3 года назад

👍！

@horseman9888 4 года назад

Is it tuned baroque??

@jeremiah3355 4 года назад

Yes

@baroqueviolin82 3 года назад

There are many baroque tunings too. ^^,

@CoStuifbergen 4 года назад

I wonder if the explanation about the stiffness is physically correct, at 9:03 I thought that concave bows (modern bows) could take more tension on the hairs, because this tension will make the bow more straight. A convex bow is already a bit bent, and tension will only bend it more. But in both cases, the shape of the bow will change a little. Otherwise, the hairs have to be elastic... (and more elastic on an old bow) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MEOgzUkD-IY.html&t=543

@Jaburu 3 года назад

the strings are atached to the both ends, so the stick will bend down, not up

@lawrence18uk 4 года назад

So, the baroque bow stick basically does not bend... Aha I never knew, I must try one. Actually I have a weird violin which is - was - a modern violin, well probably early 19th century, then converted to a modern shape, and then I had it converted back and started to use gut strings. but I still have a modern bow which is not a good thing... a colleague actually suggested that I shouldn't have had it modified and should have just fitted gut strings anyway. any comments?

@morrigambist 3 года назад

I watched a cellist struggle on her new Baroque instrument with a modern bow. When she borrowed my Baroque violin bow, she immediately felt more at ease. You can get a Baroque bow for a few hundred dollars, and you should feel an immediate improvement