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The Bass Riff EVERYONE Plays Wrong #2 - One of the Best Riffs of All Time

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Hey Groovehacker, I’m back with a new lesson for ya…
A few weeks ago I released a lesson called “the bass line everyone gets wrong… even Pino and Jaco”… and in a nutshell, the feedback from you guys was awesome so I thought I’d follow it up with…
You’ve got it…
The Sequel! ;)
So, without further ado I give you:
“The Bass Riff EVERYONE Plays Wrong #2 - One of the Best Riffs of all Time”...
Billie Jean, by the one and only Michael Jackson.
You ready for some groove?! ;)
As always, see you in the shed…
Scott :)
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Опубликовано:

26 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 275

@devinebass 6 лет назад

Hey guys - LOVE that this lesson is unearthing some bass geekery ( nice to know there's lot's of you just like me out there, lol). Anyway... Louis Johnson... let the geekery begin. In the video I state that it's not a bass playing the line... my bad... it's bass AND synth. For the very first part of the riff, it's Louis Johnson (monster bass player if you're not hip to him yet!) playing the riff, but with a synth doubling the octave parts at the same time - then, as the top line synths come in, the synth bass fades in over the entire riff and takes over the bass line. Groove on guys! :)

@alibouderbala9710 6 лет назад

Scott's Bass Lessons i believe Mark the bass wizard tought it right

@holdencaustic 6 лет назад

Scott's Bass Lessons many of Michael Jackson’s touring bassists did it without the low f#- on corporate gigs, I used to expect the keyboard player to do the low note, but it was to no avail- I got frustrated, was going to buy some old bass pedals to remedy the issue- and started doing it myself eventually-I found myself doing similar what you do- on certain neck types it gives me a cramp! Johnson did it with that massive thumb over the top of the neck. Great call- I’m looking forward to the next riff! There’s a certain overdone-yet-sometimes-necessary commodores ( sic? ) tune that everyone thinks is slapped, and most folk don’t take the time to consider its contrapuntal qualities or note content...( I’ll leave that there )

@holdencaustic 6 лет назад

Scott's Bass Lessons - p.s. if you check around, there is the original demo of Billie Jean- no vox- that Greg Phillinganes had done prior to the master sessions- and it seems he’s the one that got that bassline going - the iv chord riff is a little different- in that it doesn’t have that stop ( if memory serves )

@holdencaustic 6 лет назад

ummerrahh - haaaaa!!!! I say it’s : “ the ched “ ( it is.... isn’t it? What’s a ched anyway?)

@devinebass 6 лет назад

I didn't see him do it in a video - I saw it when he played it in front of me, lol ;)

@josephhamer9680 5 лет назад

Thanks for what you do, man. I've been playing for 20 years and your techniques have made me a better player.

@vinnysilveira4685 6 лет назад

Hey Scott! I was thinking about billie jean's bass line few days ago, and realized some mistakes that I used to make, some of these explained by you in this amazing lesson, but the octave thing in the beginning of the riff, never heard it that way! very cool stuff! congrats

@t0li0s 6 лет назад

i actually knew that from the bass wizard( he actually freted the low note with his thumb)

@KeeperOfCliffsTone 6 лет назад

try that with a precision bass lol...so this would definitely be the 'most proper way' to do it

@borodinski8960 3 года назад

@@KeeperOfCliffsTone try it with a 5str bass )

@KeeperOfCliffsTone 3 года назад

@@borodinski8960 or that yes

@bassmanpedro1 3 года назад

I have small hands and a P bass. No way could I play this using my thumb!

@apriltoronto5254 3 года назад

real bass players do not thumb...

@maxmaidment96 6 лет назад

The Bass Wizard taught me this years ago on youtube :D

@treelambs5392 6 лет назад

Max Maidment HELL YEAH DUDE

@ajadrew 6 лет назад

I was thinking the same..;-))

@kucpo 6 лет назад

Same for me:)

@thetardisneedsamot 6 лет назад

Hey Scott, I've always wondered whether you look at bass players from musical genres you don't normally play, like Iron Maiden's Steve Harris or Black Sabbath bassist Geezer Butler. Those guys are fantastic players and what's more they inspired a whole generation of rock bass players like Cliff Burton and Rex Brown. It would be cool to see you do a video looking at some of the techniques that these players employed in the music they played. Great channel by the way, you've helped a lot of us bass players out.

@gavindalziel9022 6 лет назад

You say ONE guy taught it correctly..you should give that person a shout out imo (not me btw)

@brianjlevine 6 лет назад

I've always played it F#(1) - C# - E - F#(2) - E - C# - B - C#, getting both F#s in the groove, but I do like this.

@merlinoner 2 года назад

From what I hear in the record, the octave is achieved by a mix in between a bass and a synth.

@sabin97 6 лет назад

i always played it wrong....it always sounded just a bit off, but i never could figure out why, so i let it be....but now i know better. thanks Scott :) your channel is one of the very few that i follow

@keithlawcomedy 6 лет назад

Holy shit! I play bass that style all the time, fingerpicking style. Most players think my style is wrong so I was too embarrassed to even suggest this was the right way. Thanks for sharing. I KNEW I was playing it right :)

@audibletapehiss3764 6 лет назад

Failing to imitate the synth overdub by doubling the low octave is not what makes it wrong. Playing the whole thing legato (which you did mention later) is what makes it wrong.

@floouk 6 лет назад

With the greatest respect Scott, I don't believe this is completely accurate either. To my ears it sounds like 2 bass lines the low one being played by the keyboards from the low F# ascending and the bass starting at the high F# and descending.

@455LT1 6 лет назад

I thought I read Louis Johnson played this on a Yamaha bass and overdubed his own line to thicken it up.

@ThomasMLampe 6 лет назад

Jared Jones true, but Johnson also used his thumb over the neck quite often :) he recorded several versions on different basses (MM Stingray and a Yahama bass, idk which model) MJ prefered the (overdubt version) with the Yamaha bass. That's all I know

@455LT1 6 лет назад

Thomas M. Lampe thanks for that info. Scott said this was a keybass part, but not sure where he got that info from.

@ThomasMLampe 6 лет назад

Jared Jones not sure either :D

@groovernator 6 лет назад

this line originally played by Louis Johnson. one guy demonstrated it before ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-lcz9S5ynnR0.html

@ThomasMLampe 6 лет назад

groovernator knew I'd seen it somewhere before!

@Asthmos 2 года назад

i loved watching this leason after having just taught myself the same way (with palm mute) to get it to really jump. great affirmation! thanks!

@umutlarpesinde 6 лет назад

scott your the best,, the original is studio production , playing it live with octave dont think it will work as well octave gives it a bigger sound , playing without octave doseint make it wrong ,, notes are correct so not wrong, its a choice dont think it would make much diffrence personally,, scott pleas show us the lick you do in the beginning, been watching you for yeasr scott your the best,

@aidankiely3951 5 лет назад

Cheers Scott, I'm only new to bass and had started to learn it (the wrong one) from a bass tutorial (HTPB)on You Tube, when on the sidebar, I see, the bass riff everyone plays wrong. It is harder to do it right. But it makes a huge difference to the sound. Keep up the good work man.

@dougmael 6 лет назад

OK, you got me on this one! Although I had always played the bass line to “Cissy Strut” correctly, I have NOT been playing “Billie Jean” correctly. Thank you for setting us straight on this.

@terrimac7993 6 лет назад

Interesting fact: Micheal got the idea for the drum beat off of Hall n Oats "I Can't Go For That". Even used elements from the video in his video.

@cerealexperiments8189 2 года назад

This is gonna turn my left forearm into granite.

@WaldoFindsYo 5 лет назад

all the tutorials I found were playing it so straight with no delay in between and I thought there was a delay but assumed I was wrong (cause all these teachers on youtube were doing it the same with no octaves and delay) each note but wow you caught it too. I think I saw that video of the one guy teaching it right as well. Props to you man for making this vid

@WaldoFindsYo 5 лет назад

Also for this piece instead of using my index for the low F I wrap my thumb around the neck to play it. It also helps that I can just use my index pink and thumb so i don't have to move my hand that much. And since I play with a thumb pick so I can pluck with my fingers it has a real cool quality sound to at least to me.

@KeithCopeland778 6 лет назад

Yup, I was wrong too! Thanks!

@bobclark6353 6 лет назад

I had picked up on the first double stop but not the second one. thanks.

@PeterGreenProductions 6 лет назад

Awesome Scott - most (impressed) & apreciated as always!

@gurigran1799 5 лет назад

A tricky line. According to wikipedia Louis Johnson played a bass there, and he played it with every bass he owned, "before Jackson finally settled for a Yamaha bass" (although others mention a Music Man Stingray) . Later the bass line is doubled by a synth bass (see "Production" and "Composition" on the wikipedia note). Quincy Jones was the producer. Another bass player's video says Louis Johnson plays in a peculiar way: he uses his thumb over the E string to make the octave. Thanks Scott for your lessons. Excuse my english, I'm from Argentina.

@09sjt 6 лет назад

Hi Scott, it sounds like it only plays the low F# for the first eight bars of bassline. Once the string part comes in it reverts to what everyone has been playing. Good vid though , definitely made me take a listen to a great tune😃

@JoeDakota 6 лет назад

Sorry man but you're wrong. I'm happy enough to meet Louis "Thunder Thumb" Johnson about 20 years ago and he teached us the same "trick" you're talking about. He also explained that he played this on his Stingray Bass. He was the main Bass Player on Michael Jackson's "Off the Wall" and "Thriller" Album. Anyway... I enjoy your you tube channel. Keep it up.

@couchcamperTM 6 лет назад

what's right?

@danielzacharzewski4311 5 лет назад

@Dave Connolly Taught :)

@BigBri550 4 года назад

Yeah, well, here's the man himself playing it live ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CighI6lnSkE.html The only difference I see between this and Scott's tutorial is that Louis seems to be playing it in G instead of F#

@funkbassboom 6 лет назад

Great lesson man, always thought it sounded 'off' when playing that line! Thanks for this! ROCK haha

@pinksts 6 лет назад

Another famous bass line that many players get wrong: "All Blues" by Miles Davis. Most bassists play the riff correctly on the G (I) chord, but then many will just shift that riff up a fourth for the C (IV) chord. Wrong! Listen to the original. Paul Chambers ("Mr. P.C.") keeps that same G-based riff going under the C. Some fakebooks notate the IV chord as simply C7, while others notate it as C/G or even Gm.

@DiogoBaeder 6 лет назад

Indeed, nice correction there. Most bass players play it wrong. But not all of them, and some of them play it wrong by choice. I myself play it wrong, although I had noticed the structure of the synth bass in the beginning when I started studying that song. The reason is, when you play it correctly, with the octave note, for like 3 minutes, then fine, it sounds amazing; but you start playing more and more of that song, to "stick" the groove in your head, and it starts getting pretty exhausting, because the octave is in the lower register, and mix that with a band rehearsal and you get tired and stop playing the octave or the song completely if you're out of gas. Because of that, I gave up doing the octave, and started experimenting other approaches. Starting on the lower F# and then going to the higher F# is a pretty good one, if you don't have any pedal, since it "hints" both of the notes from the recording, but then I started using an octave pedal, which takes me a bit closer to the sound I want, and then I started using a MIDI pickup with a synth and had the opportunity to get even closer to the tone. Not perfect, but close enough. All this to say that, yeah, I agree it's wrong the way most bass players play it (i.e. "wrong notes"), but it's just not practical to play it "right" (with the octave notes, one as a synth). The recording is a combination of bass and synth, it's not expected that bass players mimic that perfectly. IMHO, if it sounds good enough, if it grooves well, if it sits well in the pocket, then great, mission accomplished! :-)

@alembicfunkbass 3 года назад

Louis Johnson was hard to duplicate completely, he had a lot of tricks up his sleeve. But he does share how he played "Billie Jean" in the studio on a RU-vid video. Another song that is played incorrectly by many bass players is "Get on the Floor" by Michael Jackson, Louis Johnson on bass.

@Grimmcatz 4 года назад

im really happy i learned this information BEFORE learning the whole song

@Kindaold-butnot 4 года назад

Thank you! I was always going between the low f sharp and the high one. Now I understand!

@christopherbrown5278 6 лет назад

I have it on authority that it's 2 bass guitars and synth reinforcing. Good lesson. Yes, everybody gets it wrong! I play the double octave .... oh you do too. Nice.

@carottefonderenfersson5619 6 лет назад

Sooooo much nicer, thanks for the tip! Also, about the "daylight", there's a shot in This Is It (the movie, obviously) where MJ asks his bassist for a more "funky" groove-and-feel. This line has to be almost… bouncy; otherwise the whole thing will just be dampy mush from a spooky marsh ;-/

@martinsohier8497 6 лет назад

Really like this idea of video... Please more !

@Diispaceyone 6 лет назад

Bass wizard dawg bass wizard

@damank.k3835 6 лет назад

it opens up my mind on how to apply it to my personal bass line,thanks Scott... btw Scott,now I'm helping one of the Gospel group to play Bass in their coming album and I don't have a bass of my own which is fit in the studio,so I just have to borrow it from other's... wish one day you will choose me to give your giveaway bass... thanks Scott thanks alot

@christopherkaczka 6 лет назад

Loving how you maintained eye contact the whole time like a Maverick...

@rodnormandrums2772 6 лет назад

I heard that octave, Scott, but never even considered trying to implement it myself! I'm going to try it out, the next time I pick up my bass! Kind regards Rod

@drjukebox 6 лет назад

Thanks for pointing that out. I remember hearing Bllie Jean the first time and going to class in the morning trying to explain to a dimwit what I had just heard that was unlike anything I heard before

@benjamin_rys 6 лет назад

I knew this one before you posted it. Without youtube! Proud of myself :-p

@johnexton4581 Год назад

Subtle!👏🎸🎼

@buscourt 6 лет назад

Awesome bro look really fun. Can't wait until I can pickup my bass again after have left shoulder surgery. It's been a long 5 months so far.

@samarkito 6 лет назад

C'mon, that's not WRONG wrong. Cissy Strut was actually played wrong, but this is different. It's the correct note, just played simultaneously on two octaves. It can even sound bad, depending on your rig and/or setup adjustments. The articulation though was a very important observation.

@OOGKAUWGUM 6 лет назад

I played it like that 25 years ago, nobody had to teach me that. It's bloody obvious on the record!

@DanielConyers 6 лет назад

I learnt something today :D Cheers Scott!

@blackisblack22 6 лет назад

I knew they were teaching wrong. Thanks Scott and beware the horns.

@jcookonbass 6 лет назад

1:55 to 2:05 is delicious.

@U2BROTHR 6 лет назад

I like it. Gonna implement this right away CAPTAIN! Awesome.

@rickb1266 6 лет назад

Louis Johnson played (Yamaha) bass, requested by Michael Jackson on the recording of Billie Jean. There was also a key bass part along with the electric bass part.

@colemartinez2662 3 года назад

Everyone might have noticed this too but Herbie Hancocks chameleon Paul Jackson doesn't follow that iconic synth bassline at the beginning. I watched a live vid and he's playing that wah pedal groove super high on the neck.

@rijaca3 6 лет назад

Scott, Thanks for pointing out those subtle differences. Really completes the sound. BTW, Your new glasses look very good on you, an excellent shape choice. Ask your optician to adjust the temples so you don't have to keep pushing them up on your nose. ;-)

@bomartin5204 6 лет назад

Octave Pedal, Heavy Palm Mute, playing hard with a pick for me :) But that's me!

@MelissaPetitto 6 лет назад

OMG, I did it wrong 😓 Thanks, Scott for your lessons!

@mr.whitesnow 6 лет назад

thanx a lot!

@PRINTER222 3 года назад

You are magician!

@TheJtbass456 6 лет назад

There's actually a RU-vid vid in latter day of Louis doing this before he passed away.

@colinyoungscot 6 лет назад

Dreams shattered! In the Trinity rock and pop grade 1 for bass there's a simplified version in E minor. No octaves. Thought I'd nailed it :D

@NotSoWickedElphaba 6 лет назад

Haha! I've been playing it this very way for 15 years. I never thought any one would play it any other way. (Pride)

@gallaxyquest 6 лет назад

Sweet thanks Scott - that makes a massive difference to how it sounds - who'd thought it had an octave - learn something new everyday :D also - yes really like this format of video - everyone plays wrong - it's great fun

@davidfox7983 2 года назад

Hmmm Nice one Scott

@wolfwarren6376 6 лет назад

Hi there! I actually heard some old production notes from Billie Jean. There was in fact a bass player, although who it was I am forgetting. However, I do know that he put his thumb over the neck and played the low F# that way.

@TheJtbass456 6 лет назад

The great Louis Johnson !

@wolfwarren6376 6 лет назад

Joe Tutt thank you for the reminder! I was getting a little upset that I couldn't remember who it was.

@neilwilliams4420 6 лет назад

If you play the notes on the 9th fret f# obviously then due to fingering space being tighter it causes a natural sort of jump or stabs in the playing so doesn’t sound too bad either and the tone is nice at that fret too...especially when going to the b bar sections however the demonstration here is bang on👍

@michaelmcgarry1 3 года назад

Scott - Love your videos! You're a monster player. I've tried your way of playing the song. "Thumbing" the low F#, like Louis (RIP), works better for me. Then, I pluck the rest of the notes with index finger. I'll keep trying both ways. Hey, it can only make me a better player!

@cgerman 6 лет назад

You started loving P-basses right? I think you play them more now than in the past. Well, they are great. Also I like the fact that you generally stick to 4-string basses, for some reason I too tend to like them more. Oh, and very informative lesson as well

@cerrem1 6 лет назад

There is not Right or Wrong...as long as the girls are shaking it up on a packed dance floor...that all that matters !!!! But yea, your right about the octave and timing...

@stephencrane552 6 лет назад

thanks scott,your a star.

@nicolasdeluca8915 6 лет назад

Scott, everytime i see u teaching things or talking about music i always finishing playing the bass , u are a very great inspiration!!

@rickglenn2428 6 лет назад

Amazing lesson.

@robertw1871 2 года назад

I feel like without the glove my gear collection is lacking

@AH-64-Apache-Helicopter 6 лет назад

Holy shit... My life is a lie... Scott, you are the best!

@AH-64-Apache-Helicopter 6 лет назад

You're*

@devinebass 6 лет назад

Lol, groove on man :)

@ajdayton101 6 лет назад

I've seen it written the wrong way in many bass music books. I think I can catch the low note, but the mute will be tough.

@stand2007 6 лет назад

I've always played it right!!!! ( what a proud young man I am ) Also I saw MJ last bass player Alex Al at a Bass Player Live and to accent that second F# he does a thing where he pulls his picking thumb under the string. Anyway...I need to pick up your classes. My car got broken into and my ampeg svt classic tube and my solid state both got stolen and someone set up a go fund me and I got enough to get some lighter equip ( reason they where left in the car...yeah my bad ) and then some so will sign up. Keep doin what your doin.

@LucaLindemann 6 лет назад

Enlightening as always...❤️ ... I need a red Superdry sweater too, by the way... ;)

@bannanapancake 6 лет назад

Great lesson Scott, thanks;)

@davidgriffith3938 2 года назад

I don't think it matters whether you play the high F#, the low F#, or the octave. The first thing you got is the staccato. The key is that the F# are accented and slightly more legato than the other notes. This will make it sound right.

@andyxeno 6 лет назад

mind blown. Brilliant dude

@willster7272 2 года назад

Hey bro great channel I just started playing bass switched over from guitar and I was just wondering if you can demonstrate what the right hands doing fingering wise it would help me a lot thanks keep up the good work can’t wait to see more of your stuff

@jacobb7379 6 лет назад

10/10 bass playing. How do you just know what to play and what will sound good? Is it scales? Is it experimenting and making it up? You’d be helping a fellow bass player if you give an answer.

@maval4537 3 года назад

Actually, I'm a drummer, occasionally playing bass guitar (and some other instruments...) This video made me aware of the fact, how easily you can fail, if your not a geek🙂👍!

@lukasonbass2155 6 лет назад

I've always played it this way lol

@namasteinformativo 2 года назад

I'm not bassist but before I listen right the bass line I search in RU-vid if someone's playing right the bass line... only you! I think that the song have record other bass playing only the tonic... sorry for my bad English

@oliplaysbass 6 лет назад

Heard this originally from Dave Marks at Bass Day UK a bunch of years ago. Loads of guys get this wrong. Sounds so much better this way, sure does tire you out quicker though!

@devinebass 6 лет назад

Ha - awesome! Dave is gonna be doing some teaching at SBL so keep a look out ;)

@sixsentsoldiers 6 лет назад

I've always alternated the F# and the octave.

@markbass354 6 лет назад

way cool Scott the P bass man

@magicsocks4031 3 года назад

What bass do you use?

@sturusk3620 Год назад

That’s it!!

@KrentoTNT 6 лет назад

mind blown!

@wxyne2819 6 лет назад

Its so true listened to it and I could related what you did....You are an amazing bass player and My personal bass role model

@devinebass 6 лет назад

Ahhh thanks man!

@r.wolfolk1438 6 лет назад

I thought that the keyboard player was playing those octave doubles in addition to the right hand chords. Thanks for the tip.

@cheemo48 3 года назад

I always thought the bass guitar played the “wrong” version and the synth played the octave down F#

@lu.h3r3 5 лет назад

3:40 'Oothuthun

@lynxreble7487 6 лет назад

I heard this a year ago..

@LdCtheone 6 лет назад

thanks Louis Johnson!

@wr3ncher 6 лет назад

When Scott goes metal... \m/

@davebancos 3 года назад

Serious Question: do you always wear that glove when you play the bass or did you just wear it for this video?

@TlsChris 6 лет назад

Holy fuck you are right

@maxjbg 6 лет назад

Actually I knew that :D

@devinebass 6 лет назад

Pow! :)

@glenncroshaw5775 6 лет назад

Scott's Bass Lessons Right in the kisser!

@devinebass 6 лет назад

Lol ;)

@maxjbg 6 лет назад

Scott's Bass Lessons normally my ear isn't that good but I always heard that there was something more going on and then I tried this and it worked. And I guess last year or so the bass wizard did a video about it.

@epickett63 6 лет назад

Like you, I had the same feeling about it not being quite as simple as everyone plays it. But since I've never had to play it in a band, I didn't dig into it much...

@subbbass 5 лет назад

good way to play it. BUT between staccato(short) and legato (as long as possible) - there is PORTATO that's what describes it the best imo. I think what you play as an octave below is a fender-piano or Wurlitzer sound (a little bit hard or overdriven) playing the dotted quarter note on 1 and the 2+. But your way is great when you don't have an extra keyboard-player or your guitarplayer is too lazy to do it.