The Batman Legacy 

and then you go back to Batman Beyond and realize he named his dog after her

@@ericjohnson6120😞

🐐

Oh hey, I'm crying again. Neat!

I never really felt anything watching that scene. As a kid or even a year ago. But now that I know what it's like to watch someone I love die, I know what it hits way harder.

I admit, I don’t know Punisher that well, but I’ve seen that quote before with others defending that even he has a soft spot for kids. That said, yeah… a Batman who wouldn’t comfort a kid is not really Batman.

Good ol' Trope Talk.

@@aqwkingchampion13 I saw a video that featured stills of a recent issue of Batman or DC comics where Superman's son Jonathan (who is 10-12 years old) is missing/lost, and Batman and Nightwing help in the search party. They find Jonathan in canyon/mountainous region feeling down on himself. Nightwing cheers him up by revealing Batman carries lollipops in his utility belt, gives him one, and entertains him with juggling tricks from his circus days. Batman having lollipops packed in his belt reinforces his care for children, because in the events of rescuing them, saving them, or just giving them support after a witnessing a crime or traumatic event; comforting them with lollipops is like having hot cocoa and weighted blankets on hand without having to pack either in the Batmobile or Batwing.

​​@@aqwkingchampion13To be absolutely fair to Frank (The Punisher) while he does have a soft spot for kids and the innocent, he's not really able to allow himself to be as vulnerable as we've seen Bats when it's called for. Because at his core, he's still that kid in the alley himself, and he wants to make sure no one else knows what that's like. In a similar vein to the comment above while the adults of Gotham...well the criminals anyway, are rightly scared shitless of him the kids aren't. They know better and will talk to him without a hint of fear. There's a whole heap of comics where this is demonstrated, and is yet ANOTHER strike against the SS game. Given it's unfortunately set in the Arkham universe, recall that Harley and Joker chopped up kids and made their parents play a "game" of figuring out which parts were theirs. And Bats STILL gave Harley a chance to atone. Because evil deed or not, she was also a victim...and then the current iteration has the conceit to act as if she has the moral highground. Pathetic on both her part and whomever wrote that scene. Batman deserved better, Kevin deserved better, we deserved better...**and Harley herself deserved better**.

I think Justice League Frontier has a couple scenes that really show how Batman handles kids. The first is when he rescues the kid from a cult. After the cult has been dealt with, he tries to get the kid off of the altar, but the kid freaks out because he's scared of his savior. Batman is so bothered by this that, in a later scene, he implies that's part of the reason why he changed his outfit and teamed up with Robin. Superman: Hmm. New look, a sidekick. Do you mind if I ask? Batman: As a matter of fact, I do. Let's just say I set out to scare criminals, not children. Superman: Fair enough.

"That's for Dan Turpin!" "Who?" *"THE GOOD MAN YOU MURDERED!!!"*

you have to love that after all the years of WB messing with them, telling them "make Batman a kid" telling them "You're not allowed to use any Batman characters in Justice League, it'll confuse people." telling them "this more mature, adult show you're making now? Yeah we're gonna censor the violence harder than the old Saturday morning show, oh and higher than other sillier shows on our network aimed at younger kids" They gave them one last middle finger and it was "nawwww you can have more episodes, we were just kidding about you being canceled."

@@KairuHakubi Best story was the WB meeting after BATMAN BEYOND was nearing the start of its third season. WB was still urging Bruce Timm they weren't getting the age range they wanted (around 6 to 9). Timm was already starting to develop JUSTICE LEAGUE, but WB was saying, "We need YOUNGER" and started pitching Timm their idea of a show of young kids competing to become the next Batman (which basically them pitching a POKEMON version of BATMAN, as this was the era when POKEMON was starting to burst into the MEGATON franchise it became). Timm left the meeting just bewildered, and one of the advertising execs said to him, "Get JUSTICE LEAGUE away from these morons!" (Timm later stated, "Well, if the Commerical guys are telling you this........." ;big reason why they went to Cartoon Network, which was gaining big hit numbers with DC reruns)

​@@van8ryan i had no idea Warner had separate groups like that, and you were allowed to take your show pitch from one to the other. Imagine that at any other job. "Mr. Tate doesn't like my ad campaign, I'm going to take it to a different part of the same company.." what's hilarious is, didn't Japan actually do something like that, with kids summoning Marvel heroes via cards or something?

@@van8ryan "big reason why they went to Cartoon Network" then CN de-evolved into kids WB, doing to Teen Titans what WB wanted to do to Batman.

That makes a lot of sense! That episode DID feel like a series finale on hindsight. 😮

I never knew that lol

Cool

Even if they weren't, as I always interpreted them to be recent history, I feel like everyone involved would be willing to forgive Terry.

Really when did he say that.

I like to think these events happened but this is how Terry remembered them or what he wanted to do in these moments

A father doesnt always need to be related by blood. Bruce is his dad, Warren was his father.

@@Shiirowthis reminds me of what Yondu said at the end of GotG Vol 2

Nature vs Nurture as they say

At the end of the fay, we can agree that Amanda Waller is kinda foul.

@@SaiyanzBeBallin The difference is that Terry got good things from both; Warren shaped Terry's childhood and upbringing, Bruce shaped Terry into the adult he became...

almost like shock value doesnt add depth.

In fact Bruce Timm’s work became less mature when he was able to make works intended for adults including R-Rated movies.

​@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassiveisn't he responsible for the situation with Barbra? Not her crippling, the other issue.

​@@kieranadamson3224yes. He was a weird fixation on Bruce and Barbara being a couple.

@@fandomking8939 yeah, that scene in the animated Killing Joke was just plain disturbing realising it's literally just him putting his fetish into a movie.

I'd have enjoyed seeing Adam West (the Bright Knight) and Kevin Conroy (the Dark Knight) swapping stories about their roles. And now that Arleen Sorkin has passed, I just imagine her spotting Kevin Conroy up there and just saying "Hey, B-Man. 😊"

Without him, crime has no punchline

Even though he mostly was just the voice, to me he is to Batman what Christopher Reeve was to Superman.

To be fair, a lot of people think the world sucks.

@ShadyDoorags And it does too much, way to many pedophiles out there calling themselves "MAPS", wish people could say MAP and mean multi animator project now

It does. Not in the same way the hero world sucks, but I guarantee that if a Batman or Superman existed, we'd have new problems...but not the inescapable ones we have now@@ShadyDoorags

@@ShadyDoorags You can be Batman and their is a book you can get explaining how to

I mean, we do have a Batman, even if he isn't out fighting crime

I've always attributed her catching/surprising him to the fact she had to deal with Batman throughout her career. A guy sneaks up on you that often you either resign yourself to getting surprised or learn to spot him before he can sneak up on you. Her being able to sneak up on Terry is just her using what she learned from watching a master of the craft do his thing basically every day.

How'd you do that? "Learned it from yo Daddy"

I think she's the 2nd person in that universe to find out who batman is and has been working with them for years so she definitely has the know how to catch Terry.

​@@richborn6700😂

I think she's an Intelligence Officer. She seems to work for the DCAU's version of "We can't say it's the NSA or CIA but she's definitely a government agent" She works for homeland security in the comics so it would make sense. It's why she doesn't seem to carry a miltary rank like General Eiling did. But if she did have connections to the Intelligence community, she could still have considerable power over miltary units like we see in the show

😢 rip batman

He was truly the Batman.

Truly Kevin Conroy was, RIP!

They did him mad dirty by having SSKTJL be his last role ever

Apparently he already recorded lines for the Crisis on Infinite Earths movies, so those would be his last.​@@oblivionfan345Tony

and then finding a stray dog and naming him Ace... i doubt that was intentional, but it's retroactively sweet.

@@KairuHakubi Batman is the greatest fictional hero that ever lived I definitely would want him to have my back in a dark alley. One of the most heartbreaking Scenes for an animated series I Ever seen . You can't find that in today's Animated series.

@@dariandavis7228 If it were done today, Ace would be a girl boss that used her powers to cure her brain tumor and then Scarlet Witch the whole city into a Utopia, and Batman would be a plushie because he's like the Defacto adopted dad. And then the rest of the plot would basically be Scarlet Witch.

@@freelancerthe2561nah that’s more of marvel’s thing if it was modern dc at least not the new Superman movie it would try to set up beyond retroactively without properly setting up the entire timeline

There's also Terry later rescuing a similar esper girl named Tamara from the Brain Trust in Batman Beyond Season 2.

Yeah, that decision was a weird one.

Oh now wait a second Can you imagine if you don't want children how many women you can get pregnant and take them to court and hear those wonderful words.... "You are not the father" Yes I'm just being a jerk because I can.

@@highlander723 Maury would have a field day with that shit.

"nah. it's effective and perfectly fine. you fire your seed away buddy"

"Did you ever notice how Both your sons look remarkably alike?" The poor doctor in charge of DNA testing. ".....Yes?"

I was just writing this same thing, its not the story saying that as a message, its just in there to add to Waller's character. She's done messed up things because they were actions she believed needed to happen.

She hated Bruce at first, because she was distrustful of he WHOLE Justice League at the time they first met. But she grew to respect and look up to him.

I blame sweet baby inc. More. Rocksteady made the Arkham games. They know how to make good batman stories. It wasn't until sweet baby inc. Came in that these super hero games started getting bad.

@@dustinvance243Tbf rocksteady is also to blame considering pretty much nobody from before is there anymore

@@lonewolf9578 Even so, the b-team has proven to be competent enough at making Batman games, considering Origins. I agree with the other guy about Sweet Baby's """popularity""" as a subsidiary that's the problem, they're not good at sticking to the writing style of the stories they're contracted to pad out, and they're completely shameless about inserting their own opinions into the work.

@@dustinvance243Correction: Paul Dini was on the writing team for Asylum and City but left Knight due to differences and you can SEE why

​@@dustinvance243Sweet Baby didnt write the script, they came in after it was made for small tweaks. Rocksteady were the ones who made the script.

I would always forwards pass the scenes of old Batman because it hurt my heart to see him on such a sad state. But you make an excellent point of why that is a necessary moment

Yeah, I, too, wasn't super fond of the idea of Terry for all this time was Bruce's son since I do prefer the idea of Batman's legacy not being defined by blood since Batman forged friendships and found a new family with his allies and the Batfamily none of which are related to Bruce, that's why before this reveal, Terry felt as if he earned the mantle since he was messed up kid who had a criminal record but decided to turn life around when his father was killed and chose to make Gotham of the future a better place. I just felt like this reveal does make the mantle feel less meaningful if it just bestowed down to the next of kin, but nevertheless, this episode was still good; besides, this show was et in its own continuity, so it was no big deal, plus that moment with Bruce and Ace is a really great scene that shows how far Bruce's compassion truly goes and how much love he truly has for others, even when he chooses not to show it.

Agreed at first it seemed like they had to do it to connect them, but thats the thing its just a thing that happened its not what made or defined him it definitely added both good and bad, but it did not ruin what was made up to that point

​@@milkiassamuel780truthfully, it's something I like, especially since Terry and Matt's mother has Red Hair, Terry and Matt's father had Red Hair, Matt has Black Hair, and Terry has Black Hair. And considering Matt's age, him dying it didn't make sense as his parents wouldn't allow it based on what we saw of Mr. and Ms. McGinnis in the show.

​​@@milkiassamuel780thing is, being Bruce's son doesn't nullify all the bad he did early in life, nor all the hard work he put in to earn the title, nor the fact that he had his own family that made his entire life completely distinct from Bruce's

​@no, but it does still imply his genetics were a factor, which is thr main thing people dont like. tylerhansen931

Yes, I usually dislike the modern hero replacements because it’s always done in the most disrespectful way possible. Terry is a blue print example how a new character can take the mantle of a classic, by respecting the OG and making them awesome in their own right.

​@@AndreNitroX yeah, i think miles does it right too (at least in the animated movies idk abt the comics)

@@Zionswasd also a great example of a new hero taking over the mantle of a legacy hero

​@@AndreNitroXWrong. Miles has got to be one of the worst examples, period. Guy can't even sell past 50 issues.

The best scene that shows that was the climax of return of the Joker. Jokers taunting him about being a fake Barman and Bruce says Joker likes to talk, to block it out and power on through, but Terry realizes he also likes to talk and then starts fighting dirty and taunting the Joker. Shows how he is his own version of the character

The writers of the show have confirmed it was actually a retcon, though. Terry and his brother having black hair whilst their folks had red hair was just something they did without thinking about the broader implications. When they realized what those implications were afterwards, though, they ran with it and canonized the fan theory because they decided it was a good idea.

@@MrNetWraith So? If what you’re saying is true then happy accident, it worked in their favor.

@@MrNetWraith That's not what I heard they said.

I think it was planned pretty far back. Remember what Superman said in the episode where we see the future League for the first time? Terry's like "I guess Bruce and I have more in common than I thought" and Superman's all "More than you know." Now, HOW he knew about it, no idea. i don't think he has fuggin.. DNA-vision...

​@@KairuHakubi To be honest here, at one point in the comics superman could literally shoot a rainbow beam and if you've seen the superman all star movie.... it ain't THAT hard to believe honestly. Clark got some damn good eyes

I wonder how the twip ends up. Honestly, a lesson I'm astounded Waller didn't take into account is that it doesn't matter how great a person your genes come from, if you're raised by someone else, you could end up just a stronger, more capable monster. and that kid is not exactly impressing me so far. Neither was Terry at first, freakin hoodlum. I mean yeah Waller was going to try to have his parents killed, but did she not take into account "oh wait, he doesn't have a loving Butler to raise him. he's going to be taken into the foster system, abused, taught very generic middle-of-the-road morals from the federal government, then released without making sure he's functional" ??

From what I recall his brother also became his 'robin' in future comics. And yes his younger brother has Bruce's dna too.

@@lilyluck884 did they seriously take another of WB's terrible notes and make it a thing in the comics.. good lord.

@@KairuHakubi how is that a terrible note?

@@pickedceasar1216 How is "make Terry's dorky little brother Robin" a bad network note? Do you really need me to elaborate on that?

i loved the episode and hated everyone in it for forcing him to revert to his old ways, it made me so sad to see him fall from newfound grace

Blue moon over April too.

“You gotta get out of here Freeze, the whole place is gonna go!” “Believe me, you’re the only one who cares.”

​@richardsmith3020 That was such a sad moment. In top 5 of Batman Beyond scenes....maybe higher.

"Believe me... You're the only one who cares". I think the only other last words from a "villain" to even compare to the simple misery in their final moments is Solomon Grundy.

Really kinda highlights the difference between the common idea of Batman (Terry's fantasies/potential choices) and the character himself (Bruce's actual appearance.)

Don't think he knows much about the stuff he talks about

Amanda Waller is the most ridiculous DC characters ever More than Half the villans in the suicide squad should be able to remove the chip and rip her to pieces She has more plot armor than any of the superheroes

@@maritofuentes4690also they consistently don't kill her when they have literally every opportunity

What are you saying? Waller's secretly got physical skills? Did they appear when she dropped the weight, like Goku taking off his weighted shirt?

​@KairuHakubi Waller literally Rivals Batman in Prep-time and has expendable resources. She mirrors Bats cause she knows Everything as He does and has her own secrets. PLENTY of chances of her Death and yet somehow walks off without or little consequence. I wouldn't be suprised if her power is like domino. Just LuCkY. 🙄

it wasnt it killed batman tas for a 2 season nothing burger.

I have mixed feelings about it but I do still like. Its a great series.

​@@bastaityou serious?

i always felt as though retrun of the joker was the finale for batman beyind

I dunno, "The Call" seems a fitting episode finale especially in production/script order, while I agree with Return of the Joker being the real pre-Epilogue series finale in movie form.

Turned 34 a few months ago and stuff like this is starting to hit closer. "Eventually you live long enough that life stops giving you things and starts taking them away."

So half troubled billionaire, half kleptomaniacal cat lady? Who would ever think that's a good idea.

Twice

Seriously wait!?... 🤨

@@BLASTERX-nz5lk Yeah, they wanted to make Selina is mom, but the movie that would’ve featured got canned.

I can understand people taking shade on that genetics twist on "Epilogue", but man, at least we got this episode and not that OOC Catwoman spectacle. Since when is Catwoman a mad scientist type who hungers for more Bruce Wayne?!

I think Ace’s voice was actually Tara Strong

@@zazaranger5 Hynden Walch's wiki page credits her for role of Ace in both appearances.

@@Spooky_Spookerson you’re right I could’ve sworn it was Tara, it almost sounds like her

@@zazaranger5 It's an easy thing to assume, considering how much voice work Tara does and how many characters she voices. She voices Queen in the first Royal Flush appearance since she voiced Raven on Teen Titans.

What

Also based on the main inspiration for Batman.😊

*"So it wasn't all for nothing",* said one Simon Trent.

now that is a Batman I'd love to see

Yeah, that'd be awesome. There are two certain things that should go a specific way for Batman in my opinion. The first is that at some point later in his career someone discovers his identity and tries to leverage his trauma against him. Only to find out that the mantle of Batman isn't just some psychotic coping mechanisms but is instead the representation of the incredible man Bruce used his pain to become. The second is his death, the only two acceptable ways for Bruce Wayne to die is either calmly surrounded by family finally able to truly rest. Or he should specifically die in battle saving a child preferably a full family mirroring the death of his own family only unlike that night in Crime Alley this time someone WAS able and willing to step in and save the day.

I dunno. I just can't really see this working. How would you leverage the death of one's parents against them? And if you've completely healed and moved on from it, how would you be able to leverage it? The simple fact that someone could use it as leverage would indicate that he has not, in fact, moved on from it. A more realistic and sensical story would be one which someone was able to use it as leverage and during the course of that plot, Bruce was able to let go and move on. But I circle back to my original question, how does one leverage the death of one's parents against them?

@@eirmundgundnand9442have them make Bruce feel it was his fault somehow? overwhelm him with guilt?

I want to say that might be nice to finally see, given that is literally in his protocols for fighting himself. But at the same time, I don’t think it’s mentally possible for Bruce to get over the death of his parents as he’s been Batman since that night and Bruce, at least metaphysically speaking, is still in that alley with the corpses of his Thomas and Martha Wayne. Batman was born from that pain and will never stop carrying that burden with him because it’s what fuels him. Getting over the deaths of his parents eventually means that his time as a crime-fighter (in any capacity given that I still see him as Batman in Beyond despite Terry being in the suit; it’s not until the movie I think that Terry really became his own) is over. Yes, Bruce/Batman/Man-in-Chair still has the empathy to fight against Gotham’s criminal underworld, but he also has the money to legitimately Gotham from the inside-out to be less of a hive of scum and villainy. Him being Batman rather than the generous billionaire Bruce Wayne is a form of catharsis, pushing away those thoughts of his parent’s death as to avoid getting past that pain because, deep down, he truly doesn’t believe he can, which, at least in my opinion, is the greatest tragedy of the Batman.

Tbf, I think the punisher can easily confront a child

@@Kenfren I think they mean "comfort." It's clear that English isn't their first language.

@@filthycasual8187it is, just have autism and adhd 😢

@@filthycasual8187 his or her*

@@KairuHakubi Because it's unknown which, I decided to use "their" in the pre-woke gender-neutral sense. Don't mistake me for thinking there's more than two genders.

Well tbf the genes probably aren't what's wrong with the kidney, but yeah, if you get some old cells and have them replicate a bunch, then that organ probably isn't going to live as long as the guy you are putting it in.

That also sort of ended up being the same case with Mr. Freeze during that Batman Beyond episode. They gave him a new body using his DNA, but his new body started regressing to the same condition that destroyed his previous body. I think the problem, even though they never actually found a reason for the problem to begin with, might have been because they used the corrupted DNA of Victor Freeze from AFTER his accident that made him unable to survive beyond sub-zero temperatures. They should have gotten a sample of his DNA from BEFORE his accident.

Not only that, he mentions in BTAS that his whole purpose is to create a world that does not need Batman

@@battlesheep2552 And in the episode of JL where they fight the Justice Lords, BatLord says he “made a world where no eight-year-old boy will ever lose his parents because of some punk with a gun”, a statement which even the writers couldn’t create a counter argument for because that would be the greatest victory our Batman would ever have.

@@aqwkingchampion13 He couldn't think of a counter point in the moment since he had nothig. i like how they were driving around and they watch as a guy gets arrested just for arguing over his bill for his food was wrong "They'd love it here" "Who?" "Mom and Dad, they'd be so proud of you" "...just drive...."

@@devildavin That was great. It was like, actually acknowledging yes, their system *works.* works better than ours. But on the other hand, it sucks. It powerful sucks. And when you have a problem and your solution sucks, it's probably better to look for more solutions. Especially when the sucky solution is something you can always just do again later, because it's the easy shortcut.

In other words,a DCAU binger really should start with "On Leather Wings" and end on "Epilogue".

There are definitely certain of his rogues that he has a soft spot for. Two face is top of that list, but not at all exclusive. Admittedly, I really wish someone would actually do something with the premise of the villains being broken people. TAS did it a few times with two-face, Harley, the Ventriloquist and Penguin, but I still think there's massively untapped potential. Flat out, I honestly wish Lex Luthor would make some sort of attempt at a kind of work reform program, then secretly funnel their talents into his criminal Enterprise while they end up the victim of his duplicity

At Least Kevin Conroy Understands Batman's Character as to why people Love Batman including myself. RIP Kevin Conroy.

People tend to forget that given how much emphasis Bruce puts on respecting family that he wouldn't besmirch Warren's name or importance to Terry. So by keeping it secret he's honoring someone who raised & loved Terry...probably seeing it as a bit of a situation between himself & Alfred

Yeah I was hoping that would get a mention. Gotta love how classic cartoons could slip things past the radar.

I was dissapointed he didn't put it in

Amanda Waller: "You make a damn good cup of tea...I want another one, just like this!" Barista: **Sweating like a bagel in a synagogue**

A little part of me has a thought that while Waller and Batman don’t see eye to eye, Waller has immense respect for him. Not only for having the guts to stand up to her, but also being the only JL member to less likely go power mad.

@@zeldagameryt4018 There is a reason why Waller chose to tell THAT story in particular. It showcases what Batman should be, but it also tells why she *believes* that the world needs a Batman.

No, when Waller distrusts you, even dislikes you and is still forced to conclude the world needs you, then you did something truly remarkable and good.

in fact, i believe the scene is a complete shot for shot reversal, as if making the DCAU symmetrical.

Miles is a legitimate Spider-man, but he isn't THE Spider-man, that's Peter Parker. The Spiderverse movies are doing a great job estqblishing a distinct identityz conflicts and personality for Miles that uses his relationship with Peter as a springboard for his journey.

​​​@@AhmedX8Eh, is Miles really doing that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Miles' conflicts have been a gender swapped Doc Oct, his uncle in a purple cat suit, a petty conflict with The Spot, and actively being at odds with the hundreds of Spider-Man knockoffs. Miles' two films actively try to fix his problem with leeching on Spider-Man, by having him leech on the hundreds of other Spider-Man knockoffs and some of Peter Parker's rouges gallery. Miles should be written to stand on his own, not to have to bounce off more knockoff characters and be essentially tied to a multiverse. It's like trying to fix a broken faucet in your home, by breaking other parts of your house. Sure, Miles has two villains with Spot and his uncle in the two movies. However, his biggest conflict is the other Spider-Men which ultimately overshadows the previous two conflicts. This is because the Spider-Men conflict is more interesting and impacts other characters outside Miles. I'm not saying one story is more inherently interesting than the other, although putting a large multiverse story alongside two smaller personal stories is not a good way to get people to care about a specific character. I mean people wouldn't care about Peter if the death of Uncle Ben was being interrupted by the MCU avengers gathering heroes from different universes.

​@@AhmedX8Plus, does Miles really have a personality outside saying, "I'm not Peter Parker and I make my own destiny"? The movies try to show him being a quirky yet lovable misfit compared to the other Spider-Men. Unfortunately, it just makes him feel very generic and like he's another character that the other Spider-Men are bouncing off of. It creates a dynamic that makes the Spiderverse films more of a constant group crossover, rather than an individual character's story.

​@@MikeFireheartYou forgot Kingpin, who became one of Miles' villains (not that his rogues gallery is important right now, he's getting started, that's why I didn't mention it). The whole point of Spot is that he took his "petty conflict" with Miles as fuel to become a monster. They are using the Spiderverse to make Miles his own man. The first movie says anyone can be Spider-man and teaches Miles how he can take on the mantle his way. The second puts that lesson to the test by forcing him to break from literal canon to not just stay Spider-man, but be the type of hero Peter Parker exemplifies instead of the type of person who'll let his father die to preserve a multiversal constant. If all goes well with the third movie, Beyond the Spiderverse (hint-hint), Miles will prove to all the naysayers that he's more than some generic knockoff who can't stand on his own, just like MCU Peter did. This story can't be told without Gwen, Peter B., Miguel, Hobie, Pav, and all the rest. These "knockoffs" (other than Peter B who is, of course, Peter Parker) bolster the ideas I mentioned and contrast with Miles, showing what he could be and ehat he shouldn't be. If you watch Beyond or rewatch the other Spiderverse films (in full or through clips), don't go in expecting that Miles must be like Peter to be a worthwhile Spider-man, take the story on its own terms. Miles (and well, Gwen) is the heart of it. As for personality, he's the type to have tunnel vision, but when he slows down, he can show a surprising amount of empathy and ingenuity. He's pretty thoughtful, carefree, but poor at communicating and balancing his life. He also shares a lot in common with Peter, but that's sort of the point, he took a lot of cues from both Peters (even if Peter B wasn't a great teacher).

@@AhmedX8 Firstly, I did forget King Pin as he was forgettable, though I'm pretty sure he was Peter's villain first and didn't really get changed, compared to the gender swapped Doc Oct who was an entirely different character. Secondly, MCU Peter didn't prove he could stand on his own as he only developed character wise when the other Spider-Men got involved. Homecoming was essentially him proving himself to his sugar daddy Tony and Far From Home was him cleaning up after sugar daddy Tony's death. In other words, MCU Peter was solely glued to Tony until the previous two Spider-Men showed up. Thirdly, I'm pretty sure Miles' story could've been told without the hundreds of knockoffs, cause they just highlight his shallow character, especially Gwen who had to move on from her Peter's death. If Miles was able to work on his own and use his own strengths to overcome new villains, that would've separated him far easier than dragging the knockoffs into his story. Next point, I did watch the original Spiderverse and Miles was the most forgettable part outside his interactions with his uncle. That's not exactly a good start for a character, when every other introduced character is much more interesting with their stories. Finally, Miles having so many traits associated with Peter is the problem, because it restricts him from fully standing on his own and invites the warranted comparisons.

It's always interesting how when he's talking to his rogues, he always uses their real names when he knows them. He tries to remind them they're more than just a crook.

@@battlesheep2552 well that, and if he started legitimizing their careers, he'd be playing into their insanity.. he calls HIMSELF Batman, nobody bad should be worthy of that.

I dont know, that time he was trapped by the Black Mercy, he didn't see the Grey Ghost swoop in to save his parents, he saw his father beat up Joe Chill. He believes the world needs heroes, but I dont think he believes it needs the kind that wear masks.

@@battlesheep2552 Fair point.

Well it makes sense to an extent. Most of the league spread off or loss their life. The comic have their relationship start the universe rather than be the end point if you want some confirmation. Issue is only how expansive tas is from batman to beyond as it has everything within it.

@@ivanbluecool Perhaps but given everything Bruce went through in his life it just feels weird the writers would effectively screw him over in the end.

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 well it is batman. Him and spider man don't get to be happy. Probably worst example of this is how Talia was taken over by her dad in the beyond episode or one comic that he was about to marry Catwoman but shenanigans have her leave because ", batman has to suffer"

@@Timepilot94 I agree with everything, but I believe Bruce would recognize Talia's potential if she had diverged from her father's motives.

@@Timepilot94+ Andrea from the mask of the phantasm is a pretty good love interest pick. They just gotta figure something out for each other.

Hence why she didn't go through with it.

All his interactions with the Trickster are a mixture of heartbreaking and heartwarming. Trickster isn't a bad guy, he's just like, *actually mentally ill.* Then there's how Wally is just...entirely unaware of how ridiculously powerful he is. He's *excited* about having the laundry room on the same floor as his apartment. Because he's so incredibly humble that he doesn't seem to be aware that, as *The Flash* he could do his laundry on the other side of the *planet* and it wouldn't make any difference to how long it takes him.

Batman is malevolent, cynical, emotional, petty, and sees everyone at their very, very worst.

He's my favourite too, I grew up with him