I will never complain about screws, as manufacturers probably think the next best thing would be to glue everything together, like phones, which are a nightmare to repair.
I don't understand the thumbsdown for screws. I prefer secured parts with screws vs. cheap abs plastic clips that break or the whole thing creaks when you bend it. Screws are far superior.
Personally i would have redesigned the Bottom totally, they simply added Filter in their Existing Case. My Redesign: A Filter Flap with ONE (catching) screw. Then comes the normal Buttom which is recessed upwards. So you can unscrew the Filter Flap slide it out, clean it, stick it in an secure it with the Screw. To clean this filter you have to unscrew 4 Screws. When you go fance, putt the Filter behind the Flap screw it out take the Filter out ... but having to remove 6 ! Screws for Filtercleaning is insane. Imagine having a Schoolroom with 30 PC with this Design, as i can as i work in Schools. I have to clean such filters annually. One Screw and removeable Filter perfect, 6 Screws... screw you !
I concur. For longevity, screws are best. Every time I open a plastic-tab/glued laptop bottom, I know that it is just a matter of time before something breaks/disolves that will make future upgrades risky or less secure. Screws all the way.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo And preferably the variant that can't be dropped into the case requiring disassembly in a good case or blowing up the running PSU in a bad case. Screwless case designs are not always good and many are pretty obscure, turn into an IQ test to open without a manual.
These mini PC's the last few years are nuts. I don't think people realize how crazy they are. You're getting the equivalent to a upper-mid to lower high end laptop for 1/2 or 1/3 the price. You can still throw one of these in a small bag or mount on the back of a monitor. If these were available with professional GPU's (for better CAD support), I would be looking at them for work instead of expensive laptops.
I just do not get the complaints about screws in tech products. Have fun with plastic clips that break all the time and hard to repair products, I guess.
My comments are for anyone working for companies making mini-PCs (Beelink, Minisforum, etc). I prefer larger chassis versus smaller. More connectivity options for I/O and video. Use case would be two USB 2.0 ports with USB A interface (for external mouse and keyboard); at least two USB 3.2 Gen 2x1 (10Gbps) ports with USB A interface (for USB external SSDs & USB keys); at least one USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 (20Gbps) port with USB C interface; at least one USB 4 (40Gbps) port with USB C interface; at least one full size DP 2.0 and one full size HDMI 2.1 video ports. An external AD/DC power brick of at least 250W (the Dell Alienware 18 series and Asus G751 series have 300W power bricks so perhaps don't stop at 250W and go all the way to 300W for power to spare). For networking there should be two 10Gbps RJ-45 ports (SFP+ can be on top of the RJ-45 )🙂 and one WiFi-6. That would provide a highly flexible and powerful mini-PC platform that would be better than Intel based mini-PCs that frequently have far more I/O than most AMD based mini-PCs.
@@poorplayer9249 Sadly no .. maybe in my next lifetime 😅 It seems the only products that come close are all using the Intel platform since the effort has been up to now spend money on Intel products and well just give the AMD product teams bare minimum funding to make motherboards and entire computers 😪
@@OS2tuxbird Thanks for replying. Well, you have a comprehensive wish list to refer to and evaluate with. That's something... A mini would be good for me as a small space alternative while I dream of a future SFX machine to add to my laptop.
Asrock industrial has the BEST support. They've taken the time in the past to make a custom bios for me when I couldn't get my ECC ram to work and the bios they sent me fixed all the issues. They just need to release a better system to be used as a router, so x2 2.5g or x2 10g, or x2 sfp+.
Totally diggin the "better cooling" argument. Being able to stick a standard 120mm or 140mm fan in there would not only improve cooling, but makes it more repairable with greater access to parts, and could also give greater options eg. if consumers have a preferred / existing fan vendors could sell fanless and save on cost / cut price.
I really love your tiny pc content. I was wondering if you could start a tiny server content series, especially for energy efficient and AMD-based DIY systems
@@ServeTheHomeVideo too bad, there is so little video content around it. I would watch it day and night! I really loved the video on liquid server cooling from supermicro
Thank you for descriminating between what is and is not a NUC. Bigger boxes will always allow better cooling and more performance and potentially a price saving. I use an HP Z620 workstation which is huge by comparison [and old too] but allows so much more of everything. I am open to smaller form factors but the compromise should not be lost.
I think the “game changer” with respect to these mini PCs is going to arrive with the upcoming AMD CPUs that include the 890M iGPU. For the first time, an integrated GPU will have as much graphics horsepower as entry-level discrete GPUs.
Just a minor observation on the current AMD Mini PC offerings in general. Has anyone noticed that DisplayPort monitor connections seem to be somewhat second class citizens on many of these machines? Not all certainly, but definitely a pretty noticeable percentage. There just seems to be quite a few of them that force you to USB4 on the fronts of the sytems for DP connections. I know it may sound quite nit-picky, but I really prefer DisplayPort when I can and I do not want my permanently connected monitor cable going into the front of my system when it's as small as a mini PC.
i got the 8845hs gmktec version and first thing i did is add a 4tb 990 and 96 gb of ram. love it so far kina bummed i left it at the office and want it back
I went with the mini-pc without the NPU which has a Ryzen 7940HS. I don't really need the NPU and after some research, others claim that the 7940HS performance even beats AMD's newest 8000 series cpus in some benchmarks.
Wi-Fi 7 is not yet ratified (should happen this year). Everyone selling Wi-Fi 7 is just relying on Draft 3 being compatible with the final ratified version, a very reasonable guess but still a bit of a white lie if you ask me. Personally I think Wi-Fi 6E is the way to go at the moment for this exact reason.
What nic is used in the beelink one? I like that you mentioned what the ASRock one uses but I miss that information on the Beelink unit. Especially with drivers and reliability issues, it could be a decision for a purchase or not :O
Beelink has seemed to prefer opting for a single LAN port for several years now, which is a constant bummer considering how many other miniPC vendors have no issue throwing in a pair of them. Even the tiny 87mm x 87mm x 39mm N100 units typically include a pair, as have many other vendors' offerings from at least the AMD 4000 series (4800H, etc)
i took my ser 5 out of the case and added a 200mm fan also heat sinks on my ram and ssd if you have a metal case you could add a aio cooler making good contact to the largest metal surface of the mini pc
For a server application, the MS-01 from MinisForum is better unless there is something specific about this form factor or ASRock you prefer. Really hard to go wrong with 2 SFP+ ports plus dual 2.5 NICs. Sorta my ideal Proxmox box at the moment.
I find it funny how people get usb confused. The usb 2.0 ports are actually run off the usb 3 controller. There is no difference between the usb 3.0 port in 2.0 mode and a usb 2.0 port. They both have the usb 2.0 power and data wires
Does Ryzen CPUs also use such aggresive throttling as Intel ? When I try to compile anything heavy, throttlink occurs, temps go up to 95-98C and hear the fan through the wall.
This mini PCs NUCs are awesome and exactly what I need for my living room. I do not need the fastest one, since ie will be just a HTPC and 4k playback is easy enough on pretty much everything nowadays. Thing is, I cannot seem to get one. There are plenty of sellers, yet not one seem to ship to the Netherlands. On Amazon I had placed an order and after three months it was still pending on when they would ship... And other sites/sellers aren't much better either... Any recommendations are highly appreciated as to where to buy one...
I've got a generic mini PC with a Ryzen 8840U and 64 GB of memory, using it to run a Llama 3 70B chatbot :) works great, though getting everything passed through and working in Proxmox was a pain
The ASRock power brick is larger and has less power consumption which equals longer thermal life. All my PCs have oversized PSUs, the last thing you want is failing PSUs.
Not of the fan of the price, either be down near n100's or higher, can get decent pc that can have a real gpu, or a laptop that has more portability. love the n100 tho
I am not sure these super-small PCs bring a lot compared to a small but strongly scalable PC. There is a lot of room left near my home cinema and writing desk. But interesting video mainly because of the network speed progress.
Just ordered the Minisforum UM 890 Pro. Basically the same config, beside 2x2.5gbe and buildin Oculink (uses one of the 2 Nvme m.2 slots). Imo its better designed and you can get an Oculink eGPU Dock for 90 bucks for little more serious gamong. Not sure how high the Intel mobile chips go but the 780M and 8945HS runs circles around the i3/i5 and Intel igpus. Have not seen if they have an i7 or whatever redicolous name they Call them now. With 16 threads and 96gb ram thes Ryzen mobile chips with both 2 usb4 and 2x 2.5gbe network is pretty darn good for a Home project server or low to mid lvl gaming. Only reason to go with an M-ITX system is if you need a 10gbe network card or multiple SATA connections for a NAS.
I wish you would have discussed Multi-Stream Transport on that DisplayPort output. If you use daisy-chainable monitors or an MST hub, how many total displays can you hook up to that Beelink unit?
I am looking to replace my living room PC. My current PC reboots after some time while showing 4K UHD content. I am wondering if its worth buying one of these.
ServeTheHome - I am hoping you can do a discussion on power, TDP, cooling, and performance. I do not understand these concepts yet and struggling to even find appropriate sources to learn it. My current understanding is that a chip may be capable of higher performance but will only function that way if there is adequate power and cooling. So it’s entirely possible to have a high functioning performance chip and never get that performance if you don’t meet its power or cooling requirements. I also do not understand if a high performance chip which requires considerable power still requires and wastes that power if left on but not in use. Can these chips use minimal power in standby mode or do they always expend higher power. I welcome anyone to provide info here. Thanks.
We have shown these AMD chips recording full resolution AV1 locally while playing esports titled like League of Legends at 4K. Higher end games at high detail are probably not the best on this just given the integrated graphics. If you are just looking to produce streams from cameras instead of games, this is plenty. Likewise, if you want to hook it up to a TV as a streaming endpoint it is more than enough.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo Thank you for the quick response! Was referring to using it only to encode to twitch/youtube stream and possibly simultaneously locally record from sources such as cameras and separate gaming pc via usb capture cards.
You have been able to get NUCs with tool-less lids for some time. TinyMiniMicro nodes have been tool-less for many years as well. It just takes flanges and a locking mechanism
I am now officially bored senseless seeing more mini PCs whose main difference is the multi digit cpu name and port speed. I know the NUC has a size standard but it seems a bit arbitrary. What we do need is a mini PCIe slot standard - like M.2 but more lanes so we can have tiny add in cards.
I do wonder if you have some contacts that you can, well contact about 13900 and 14900 (mainly) degradation and failure issue. I'm talking from server side of things. Wendell already did that, but it would be great to have independent review. Especially given how large the issue might be, it might be waaaay too big for 1 person or even couple of RU-vid channels. And I do wonder if it has some crossover with initial Sapphire Rapids CPU's having multiple stability issues. And as a fan of Project TMM - it was nice to see those 2 small PC's featured. Personally I still buy new ones (usually HP) that I can get for 20-50$ that use bulldozer architecture. They are decent if you only do stuff like "Office" or something. Better one can handle RU-vid, but has issues with 60 FPS videos. And in terms of usage nothing seems to be bottleneck (CPU isn't at 100% - though I suspect it's simply lack of hardware decoders to newer videos).
I saw Wendell the morning he published that video. My sense is just talking to server OEMs is that the issue is more due to the frequency the gaming parts are running at. Gaming CPUs are pushing the silicon harder to hit higher clocks.
@@ServeTheHomeVideo That is a given. However there are (and were already, prior to all the focus) rumors that Raptor Lake had been produced very quickly (11 months from drawing board to the end of validation). And while it is "just" an evolution of Alder Lake, from memory 11 months is super quick, even for "just" a "re-design". And given the pressure, Sapphire Rapids might have also had some (probably not a lot) stuff that was being thought for Raptor Lake. Or even just some ideas were floated at the time or it is completely unrelated. But I do remember that first batches especially felt "unbaked". And obviously they don't seem to have the same or at least most of the issues that Raptor Lake has (likely due to more complex validation for Enterprise). Still again, there were people who "pre-ordered" Sapphire Rapids and then had to cancel or request to send it back, because their equipment wasn't stable (or had power consumption problem). Of course in this case things were solved pretty quickly - not to mention Emerald Rapids is basically flawless. At least compared to SR. Maybe poke and prod a bit and you might be able to find out something. Because to me it looks like getting to the bottom of this will take a lot of collaborative effort from various journalists (whether they think of themselves as journalists or not).
im still a little unclear on what applications take advantage of the npu today. and whether that list of applications is different depending on which vendors npu.
IMBU (in my basic understanding...I just made that up to look like a): -x86 architecture runs hot, therefore needs large form factors with air cooling; -ARM architecture is super efficient, hence the small form factor and lower costs; -RISC-V architecture is FOSS, which seems best when developed for the market. Curious about corporatocracy vs community, proprietary vs FOSS. The private sector supply cannot meet public market demand, so open sourcing seems to be the path of progress, or not? The open source lack of financial incentive though, relies on volunteers developing a usable ISA, which I understand is close to being ready for desktop SBCs with 2 NICs, 3 monitors, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi and M.2 NVMe storage? Also, why not just use USB-C now, it's so fast for data and power, unsure if monitors could use it too?
x86 is high performance and runs hotter ARM is high efficiency and runs cooler but performance is low RISC-V ISA (instruction set) is FOSS but the architecture is not. Any vendor making their RISC-V cores can make proprietary or open or whatever design. The main benefit of RISC-V is that there is no duopoly Intel/AMD like with x86 nor a single owner-king of the architecture that must be paid their dues like with ARM. It's not in the architecture itself but in the freedom to develop whatever design with it
Not really. If you look at the Xeon 6 versus something like an Ampere Altra Max, Intel is now far ahead of Arm with its E-cores on efficiency. There are different optimizations that the Arm folks make. If you look at a modern die shot of one of these chips, the cores are a relatively small area. Even if you got 15% better PPA on the cores that is single digit better on the chip.
another box with frustrating 2.5g networking instead of 10g. - i suppose they at least gave you a second m.2 slot so you could use that for a 10g adapter and mount it to the side panel or something, but COME ON, guys! these little boxes don't have room for lots of storage (and it makes sense to remotely locate the storage with little inexpensive desktops anyway, and 10g to my nas becomes a must.
@@efimovv I’m running 10g over standard cat6e all over my house and it works just fine at max speeds. And the integrated aquantia chipset on my workstation runs pretty cool and the x540-t2 I’ve got in my proxmox cluster and NASes isn’t nearly as hot or power hungry as folks make them out to be. I’ve had nothing but good times with them. The switches run a bit warm and loud but I swapped out my fans for quiet high static pressure versions that work great shrug.
Amazing what u can do in an industrial (embedded) PC 4x4 brick (NUC) when the APU processor from AMD cost nothing in a full line procurement? I'm pretty sure. mb
RoHS, lead free package guarantee means ur Lixus with this control module, as a break control system, won't accelerate and fly off the road on a lead contaminated package short. mb
A small computer including the power supply would be much better than just pretending it's a small computer while only moving the mess to cable management 🤮
Pretty 'screwed up' system that SER8 is! 😂 Btw, any benchmarking on NPU performance, to aid devs trying to build offline llm based solutions in home lab? Say, quantized llama with ollama?
Nope. The Steam Deck APU is pretty weak compared to other AMD processors, mainly to account for battery life, but there are some that are very similar if you filter down AMD's lineup.
The 780M is more powerful than the iGPU in the steam deck. I would like to see AMD put more focus on improving their iGPU rather than cramming more cores in their APUs.
Not only that. The asrock uses better components. I’ve had a few Beelinks stop working on me. There are videos and Reddit posts on people who’ve had the same thing happen to them.
Why would you change an at least somewhat informative thumbnail/title to almost zero-information clickbait? Does the actual audience of this channel _really_ click on things like that more?
Is there a way to watch these videos at 90% speed? Patrick, you rattle things off too quickly sometimes and you are hard to understand when you do so. Replaying it doesn't help. Slurred speech is slurred speech.
You need to buy one of these 1st !! In all seriousness you need a laptop or desktop type device and go into Settings and choose _Playback Speed_ and then _Custom_ settings and can choose increments of 5% that way. With phone or Smart TV you are stuck with 25% increments Only, which Sucks. Why I am seriously thing of a player just for YT just for this feature so can listen at like 5%, 10% to 15% faster and listen to more things. I really, really wish N305 was more mainstream though. N100 from what I've seen over the last year has had problems with AV1 decoding for YT sometimes. That's what I'll be using it for and N305 would be a perfect fit but for the price might as well get a real i3 or i5 or hell a MinisForum MS-01 i5 on sale and run numerous things on it and YT. Once N305 comes down to N100 prices I think they will sell a lot of them.