Strong performance by the Baji practitioner, definitely looked like he could’ve taken it home in round 1, I think what ultimately costed him the match was that, when he saw his opponent had adapted to his techniques and was walling him out (a standard Muay Thai tactic to make use of their brutal conditioning), he got intimidated and gunshy, if he had kept up his tactical pressure and kept trying and mixing things up, his activity in the latter rounds might’ve been enough to get decision
@@FightCommentary Yes, you are doing an honour for all of the underrated martial arts. Looking forward to it 😃. Maybe if they will allow me to record a video of me beating the snot out of heavy weights in wrestling I'll link you to it and let you commentate that lol. 😉
Solid fight for ba ji. He should have tried to adapt and change up his strategy once his oponent adapted to his throws. But other than that he did very well. Good stuff. A shame we didn't get to see some elbows due to the ruleset. Both styles are famous for their elbows.
As a Bajimen myself, this is a great fight for the Baji guy despite his loss, my only problem is that he barely used any Shoulder tackles, body checks or hip thrusts such as Kuada, Tieshenkao or Tan ma zhan, it may be because of the rules or maybe it's hard to execute it, would be interesting to use the elbow techniques since Baji elbows are much different to Muay Thai elbows.
As a Baji practitioner, I didn’t see any Baji. I suspect some San Da guys are being labelled as Baji to prop up the whole “CMA works” dilemma that Xu Xiao Dong caused. Baji is a famous style with a reputation but most people know close to nothing about it….so just slap the label on things. Those “classic Baji throws” don’t show up anywhere in the Baji shuai jiao forms. Those are san da throws….not even well executed ones in this video. Why would a style that has very limited kicks (angled low side kick and a heel kick) have a dozen counter throws to round kicks?
@@slicktricks88 i didnt see either..period..u aint gonna get any baji or real kung fu in a sanctioned ring fight, sorry..it will look like bad kickboxing and nothing else lol
@@steadyeddy8170 Kickboxing= karate + taekwondo+ box Karate tiene orígenes en kungfu Los coreanos estudiaron las artes marciales chinas desde hace mucho, creo que incluso hay un libro, es natural que se parezcan.
The Baji guy was rotating his shoulders in a circular motion after catching his leg to throw him. Once the Muay Thai guy figured it out, the Baji guy should have changed the throw to a heel trap and rotation throw. Great fight and example of Baji which you don’t get to see often, I think he did really well, especially for an older guy!
switching to a different technique from the catch is always an option, but another would be to use the old throw that's been figured out as a misdirect. Once the throwee gets comfortable defending your initial pull/movement, you can reverse the force of your throw as the throwee is still coming through the other way. So catch and rotate through same as before, but then stop and swing the other way while trapping the support foot from behind and pushing over that fulcrum.
Love your content ! As an older practionior . for your viewers knowledge. Baji really started as military solo practice of shuai jiao.This started in the 15 th century. By General Quan and is in his manual . This was practiced a lot at the military Academy that Chang Kai Chek was in charge of .His number one man Dai Lei also taught Baji to all of Chek's body guards. Baji was made to be used against soldiers who might have armour on underneath their clothing . Hope I add a little for your viewers .
I have an old video of a Bajiquan guy sparring a muay thai guy but it doesn't compare to an actual fight between bajiquan and muay thai. Thanks for uploading this. Anyway the video is called "fear the baji."
Sanda is not a mix of boxing, taekwondo or karate with Chinese wrestling and kicking. It is a mix of northern Chinese style, Choy li fut, Chinese wrestling and so on. The punches come from kung fu just like the kicks. The thing they took inspiration from are the training methods, not the techniques themselves. Kung Fu has basic punches and kicks. People should stop acting like kung fu doesn’t have the most basic techniques and that these are just « boxing » or « taekwondo ». My 2 cents
True. It's just that they usually look at Kung Fu forms that are actually supposed to represent grappling or weapon techniques and think that it's just poor striking technique.
Kung fu was the very first Asian martial art that was exposed to the West and funny enough if Kung fu was so efficient in the beginning, no one would mock Kung fu. Sanda, the modern Kung fu, as he said was correct, is a mix of almost everything including Muay thai and so on. It has almost little to do with traditional Kung fu.
@@iROChakri go watch mmashredded’s last video and the podcast aswell. And since you know kung fu so well tell me how it should look like ? You probably think that it should look like the movies haha You clearly don’t understand anything about kung fu or Sanda. Sanda is sports kung fu, using kung fu techniques, using MODERN training methods. The techniques are from kung fu period you should do your research before talking nonsense
@@iROChakri I mean, the thing is that Kung Fu has lost most of it's good points (it's hardcore conditioning is almost extinct, most schools do not spar, most teachers do not know what most forms mean, the weapons parts of them are dying, many do not understand what Chi is supposed to be, etc) But the techniques of each Kung fu style are actually fine and functional. The bad thing is the way they are trained (similar to Aikido, Taekwondo and many Karate styles)
The Baji guy got intimidated by his opponent when he landed some kicks. I think he bruised some ribs with that as the air was already out of him the second round.
Yeah, I also practice 八極拳 Ba Ji Quan, I can tell those throwing and wrestling techniques are very very similar to Baji and Sanda styles, and his punch is also Ba Ji style. If anyone claims they can't see any CMA technique, then they're either lying or completely clueless. And that ba ji quan guy is indeed not bad, his 身法、防禦 and situation awarness are all quite good, but his attack was not aggressive enough and he relied on wrestling too much, he definitely had chance to win the match, and to be honest I don't think he lost to Muay Thai guy by techniques, I think he lost mainly for match points / scores.
How can you tell what's baji specific in the throws vs sanda? To me, it looks all like sanshou technique I'm familiar with. I have two specific critiques of his mid round kick catch and throw: 1) he should advance his grips on the caught leg so that at least one arm is ahead of the knee, to give the throwee less buffer room to wiggle the caught leg while keeping his support leg stable. 2) he should keep rotating through more once he sticks his leg out to block the support leg. With the leg out at a distance, the throwee is able to stand in place and let the caught leg swing without being forced off his base. So to muscle the throw home, thrower needs to turn an extra 45deg or so until the support leg finally has to move into the blocking leg.
@@mengmao5033 it’s not Baji. You are right, its sloppy san da. Baji has almost no kicks and almost no head punches. Zero round kicks in the entire system, so they aren’t going to have a dozen round kick counters. It’s maybe one of the hardest traditional systems to adapt to gloved combat sport due to the body punching (especially short range punches) being blunted by gloves. A lot of the force (jing) used requires pre compression of the opponents body, especially chained body strikes. Gloves are designed not to compress and prevent knuckle to body direct contact. Nevermind all the palm strikes. Things like shoulder bouncing are effective for distance control (especially if you are a bodyguard) but will have no damage in a ring. Seems like the flavour of the month is to rebrand San Shou as “Baji” and claim CMA works (in the ring).
Like most Shaolin styles (and even traditional chinese martial arts in general), Hung Gar is mostly a weapons martial art that uses grappling (and kicking) when unarmed. Most of it's "unarmed tecniques" found in it's forms are just weapon tecniques and grappling but people never realize that. Just like with the other Kung Fu styles
@@jestfullgremblim8002 when HUNG GAR uses the FU JOW, what weapon are they actually using (without weapon in hand)? When Hung Gar uses Crane Beaks, what weapon was replace by the Crane Beak? When Hung Gar uses ANY EMPTY HAND techniques, WHAT WEAPONS are the replacing with hand techniques? What i know you are failing to realize is, true gung fu is INTERCHANGEABLE. YES, we can take our empty hand techniques and put weapons in our hands and be very effective with it and vice versa. the comment you made makes me doubt you are a hung gar stylist. if you were, you would know that, and it would never be an issue for you to point out.
I am very interested on baji and the other northern styles,because they make heavy use of body strikes,an elements that nobody seems to focus on today. How come i have never seen anyone trying to incorporate those in MMA?
@@FightCommentary yet,it appears often in fighting games and martial arts media. It is certainly much more known than other styles. I feel quietly optimistic in saying that it would not be long before we see something. Ever seen Xin Yi Liu He Quan? I heard that one was another lethal northern style focusing heavily on body and shoulder stikes.
Any ruleset that gloves the hands of strikers is going to encourage more head strikes. Body strikes become more prominent in any striking competition that requires bare knuckle. Historical western boxing also was heavier with body strikes when it was bare knuckle. The shift to gloves directly led to an increase in head strike focus.
@@junichiroyamashita Those are becoming more and more prominent in MMA as time goes actually. Shoulder strikes and such have been incorporated pretty well lately in clinch fighting. I think a lot of close range kung fu techniques that you see in chen taiji and baji will come out of the woodwork as clinch fighting in MMA continues to evolve, even if they won't look exactly as they do in the form.
Brother: thank you for the upload. The roundhouse kick that you refer to at 01:55 is not different to angles used in muay thai! There are many instructional videos that demonstrate this exact same kick. Also checkout roundhouse that go vertically then horizontally just before impact!!! :::)) Peace & Love!!!
Not sure about twitch muscles, but apparently reaction times go down after the age of 24: (Over the Hill at 24 by Thompson JJ, Blair MR, Henrey AJ (2014)) I was a bit disappointed that the baji guy didn't use the classic charging elbow strikes or shoulder strikes common in fighting games lol. But the muay thai guy seems to control distance too well for that kind of thing to be viable.
Interesting example. But I have few questions. Baji guy seems to be limited in his techniques. Was it because such techniques are not suitable for this type of confrontation or their usage is restricted by the rules? You know, like, elbow strikes, shoulder-back strikes. Also why didn't Baji guy used Fǔ rèn jiǎo after he successfully catch the leg few times? His school doesn't teach Fǔ rèn jiǎo or I don't know something? Please, enlighten me.
On the lethwei angle, I reckon Thai boxing is far superior despite the more permissive rules of the former. Mostly this is due to how much more pervasive Thai rules are and how deep the talent pool is. When you look at the Thai in one FC, which I would offer is the current pinnacle of 1vs1 striking, and you look at the highest level guys like David Leduc in lethwei, to me there is just such a massive disparity in level. The Thai boxing and K1 style kickboxing systems you see on the world stage just seem to produce far better talent and I think if you put pro Thai fighters into lethwei rules now in 2023 they would murder the top guys there.
You want Kung fu dude dead? Many martial arts today learn Muay thai techniques but Muay thai fighters still use elbow strikes the best. In this video, the Kung fu dude is like 2% Kung fu and 69% Kickboxing and only 29% Wrestling. I wanna see IP man one punches and eagle claws lol
Baji guy gassed out after 1st round, he has almost no hands after that and he starts throwing these slow, single, power punches. Muay Thai guy didn't gas, and was pretty good at keeping the pressure on and never let him recover.
Seems to me the Muay Thai fighter is a professional, while the Baji fighter, while capable, is still an amateur / hobbyist. Sooner or later it will all boil down to conditioning and experience.
I saw no TMA sorry. I saw kickboxing. I applaud your attempt to find relevance in Chinese Kung Fu though👍Please don’t get mad at me Jerry I love your channel BUT to say someone is using their “Style “ we should see DEFINITIVE techniques applied. Just my humble opinion.
Muay thai conditioning isnt built differently from other styles at this point. Muay thai has been studied by other martial arts for a long time now, and Muay thai conditioning has been adopted into many styles today. For example, I can see that this Kung fu definitely doesnt try to do speedy slapping, one inch push, or eagle claws. Good for him. All he has to do is to condition his body more. Keep stupid Kung fu movie techniques out form his sparring and he will be a good fighter but ... does that still make him a Kung fu fighter or a normal Kickboxer today? Well, give it another hundred year and all styles will look the same. No more fancy techniques because they dont work.
That is ironic. Those "fancy" techniques appear in MMA fights as shown in two of my recent videos. In case you wonder, the title for those videos are Kata Applications in MMA Fights.
I think the Baji guy lost due to(and these are just my humbled opinions): 1) smaller and older 2)not as good conditioned as the Muay Thai guy(but this could be due to biological and training and resting vs the actual martial art itself) 3) not able to adapt as quickly as the Muay Thai guy As far as style goes, Baji guy didn’t leap as much as the way Baji is practiced...baji is also good from striking from a longer distance as the stances are practiced to leap sideways and further. His elbows placements were great though. Protecting his liver with the right elbow and using the right to swing employing Pigua principles.. Also, Baji fists are hindered when wearing gloves as Baji fists are shaped more like a leopard fist than a closed fist so his striking may not be as effective... Overall, I also think the Muay Thai guy is a bit more athletic and actually stayed relaxed along with better conditioning... The grand master Liu Yun Chow who was the body guard to Chiang Kai Shek was also a Praying Mantis practioner and the influence is there as we see monkey steps and hooks in the Baji guy's take downs. Style to style, I don't think Baji guy lost... Person to person, age, conditioning, adaptability, talent were Baji guy's disadvantages.
I do have a question: 0:15 If Bajiquan was used in the old Imperial court, by the bodyguards of the Emperors ..why is it using modern boxing and other 20th century techniques? It looks nothing like old systems. Is this revisionisum? Or, using an old styles name, with a new system? And, whats the 'oldest' filmed footage of this system? I'm guessing, there is not footage of it from the 60/70's
I'm guessing it's because Bajiquan is relatively new, created somewhere in between the 19th-20th centuries when the monarchy was still a thing and extensive contact with Europe made sure some knowledge of other styles was transferred. Another reason could be because the style went through changes and modifications, just like every other style in order to increase effectiveness.
@@joshuakusuma5953 Thanks to my family, I'm aware Ming Chuan was the base style used by the Emperors personal body guard (for hundreds of years). Not liked by the Chinese public though, because of what Guangxu Emperor used his bodyguards for ;) Don't google the style, probably lots of 'not Ming Chuan' out there :) Peace.
Baji Quan is one of the fathers styles of karate no? There are some throws that I haven't seen in karate but the kicks are extremely similar and the mindset of just tossing the dude instead of trading hits is rather present in traditional karate.
Despite their similairities I don't think there's any relation to karate, but Baji is quite prevalent in Japanese pop culture, especially in fighting games. I think some of the founders of taekwondo did do Baji though.
Nah, the one that does have a direct conection to Karate is Taichi (and therefore Shuai Jiao and many other styles like Bajiquan have an indirect conection). Taichi is really conected to Bajiquan so i can totally see what you mean.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 not any of them you mention, karate came from tan sho do, which, they learn it from southern china, even until these days, you can see a lot of similarities with southern kf such as white crane, southern preying mantis, tai zu, weng Chun ( not wing Chun )
@@lps8966 i know. I didn't say that Karate came from Taichi, now did i? I just said that Taichi has a direct conection because Taichi also comes from the White Crane Style which is where most Traditional Karate Techniques come from
All of these throws are classic Sandai techniques. Also: Sandai an individual & complete combat system that is found in all authentic gong fu combat systems & is not to be considered an amalgamation of other systems! Sandai is stylistically different within different combat systems: you also have Military sandai!!!
Actually he already made a video on Sanda history interviewing one of the original creators of Sanda. Suprisingly they incorporated boximg, Karate, Tea Kwondo and Muay Thai techniques. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-NDOkPNzKGBg.html In another video (ill have to look for), all the Chinese fighters lost when they first met Muay Thai fighters.
@@henryposadas3309 that would only be true with the sport that we now call Sanda. The original military Sanda which had these techniques and more was based around Kung Fu. Wushu Sanda is also just Chinese martial arts.
@@henryposadas3309 and why do you call him "one of the original creators of Sanda"? He isn't. They did use other martial arts as reference but they had most things already. Kung Fu always had the kicks present in Muay Thai and Karate, but they still had a look at them just in case. Same thing with boxing, and as you can see, Sanda fighters do not punch in the same way that boxers do while fighting. They take reference from pther arts but have their own techniques.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 I saw this a long time ago so I wrote what I said and looked for the video link. Regardless my point is Sanda did borrow other techniques from other arts because they lost everytime they fought abroad. This was someone who ia more than qualified to talk about Sanda history. But yes originally much earlier military Sanda did comprise of Kungfu techniques. Am I saying kungfu techniques are useless? No. Am I saying Sanda is inferior? No. I am merely stating that other arts also contributed to modern Sanda.
the muaythai conditioning and smacking are good because tbeir system target is to smack the opponent to severe injury which generally allowed in their rule . But for most other martisl arts their rule chsnge to 'tame' mode for many decades which causing severe injury is very forbiden.Thats why even in kickboxing match those sanda origin guys are more timid in executing ko. While for the musythai guys ko is always (maybe cant say mostly ,should be all)their highest target.When they have such target of course they grnerslly more eager to train themselves for that purpoee, to bring you to hospital..It became the muaythai general training as its their tradiition way target is to bring you to hospital.
It's kind of a shame the Baji guy didn't just reach his foot behind the Muay Thai guy's heel before the throw. I think he would have gotten up each time if he had
Bajiquan is a martial art that seems to be largely ignored in the west which is a pity because it has devastating close elbows, throws and body strikes.
i will say it again- real kung fu and real muay thai are not allowed in the ring. we will never know who or what is better because its always in a controlled environment with rules
On " the street," any of those first round strikes would have ended it. Ba ji also has some powerful strikes. But of course a striker who fights pro will have the edge in conditioning and timing
Baji guy forgets the strategic principles of the style here 00:25 when he suffers the first low kick by agreeing to play with his opponent according to the rules they will never allow to traditional styles to be effective. From that moment on it becomes a full-fledged kick boxing match and he takes refuge in the fake safety of his Sanda (which he certainly practices together with the Baji)
@@fazares the problem is that if you practice martial arts you can't afford to play with your opponent by following his rules. this is the biggest limit in a sporting comparison
That's a very bad way of looking at it. The majority of very good martial arts like Muay Thai and BJJ were also originally made to hurt people outside of a sporting context. Why should Bajiquan be any different?
But without the ramming elbow it doesn't seems like ba ji is at it'd peak level. I thought ba ji wanted to be super close quater for ramming and take down. The world of martial art sure provide alot to be learn, i'll still be learning until the day i die.
Muay Thai came from Kung-Fu , Karate came from Kung-Fu . Choy Lay Fut , Northern Shaolin Traditional, Hung Gar, they can fight. The problem with Kung-Fu is many styles nowadays don't train foe.real fights.
Bajiquan doesn't lend itself to this ruleset. Strong first round but has poor punches and couldn't really keep up in exchanges beyond a single punch or kick.
