I would agree with that choice... provided the hunter can handle the recoil....The 338 win mag can deliver some powerful energy downrange at the expense of heavy recoil. I remember complaining to my local gunsmith about the recoil from some rather stout 338-06 handloads ...He chuckled and then with a stern attitude asked me what the he&& was I expecting...lol
@@johndegroot8664 the 300 RUM is pointless. Once you get past 300 Win Mag ballistics in a 30 cal all your doing is creating unnecessary recoil, stressing projectile design, and creating bloodshot meat with outlandish impact velocities. You should really step up in caliber once you’ve reached that level of recoil.
i'll make this easy. Best Moose Rifle- 30-06 Best Elk Rifle- 30-06 Best Mulie Rifle- 30-06 Best Bear Rifle - 30-06 Best Whitetail Rifle 30-06 Best Antelope Rifle 30-06 Best long range burglar rifle- 30-06 Best EV Rifle - 30-06
Yes, your absolutely right. But What most people don't Say Is it needs to be a heavy Grain, like a Remington Core-Lokt 30-06 Springfield 220 gr Core-Lokt Soft Round or 200 Grain. Ideally Minimum of of 180 gr. It’s Amazes How many Outdoorsmen don’t Know that or even Think about that. Almost Everbody inherits a 30-06, Has a close relative with a 30-06, or can go to the local gun store and Find an Affordable 30-06 at the local gun store. The most accurate affordable mid price 30-06 rifles are by far made by Ruger. Now Yes, 44 Mag min is Ideal! If all you haveis a 357 mag 180 grain hard cast bullets minimum should be used. HSM makes Bear Load. Double Tap makes 200 grain hard cast bullets as well. If You want use a Glock or Semi Handgun 10mm Hard Cast 200-220 grain but at least 200 Hard Cast Minimum Should be used. HSM and Underwood make those types of bullets as well as Double Tap. If all you have is a 45 ACP 250-255 Grain +P bullets should be used minimum. Underwood makes affordable rounds that fit that description.
@@imissyoumom7644wanna know what’s great about all these new hyped up cartridges?! the 30.06 is left behind, meaning reloading 30.06 is cheaper and finding bullets and cases is always easier to find in stock.
I recently purchased a rifle in 35 whelen. I haven't hunted with it yet, but I'm really impressed with how easy that cartridge is to shoot and the power it seems to have. It just might become my main 300-yard general purpose hunting rifle.
@@NCWoodlandRoamerthere is more selection as you think , Remington , Hornady , barns , nosler and federal all load for it . I really like the 200 grain barns and the 225 acubonds
One of my favorites. Especially with the newer powders and Bullets it’s very capable. My current setup with North Fork-Barnes and a maximum range of 400 yards works so far. Anything after that is too far for my skill level and gear system. My preference being 300 and in which has become my go to. Hope to put everything to the test at those ranges this year.
@@45-70Guy you’re right. The new Speer and Sierra data puts the Whelen equal to the 358 Norma. I’d love to see some updated data for the Norma. It would be contending with the 358 STA
@@BlairStOngeif we go with longer barrels also it’s really pushing on the 338WM but in a lighter recoil and also larger diameter bullet. There are a few Guys with custom rifles and longer barrels hunting with the whelen doing 2800-2900 with 225’s and 2700 with 250’s. I personally am not running them that fast but still with current bullet technology and faster than original speeds it’s still an awesome and viable cartridge. 358 stuff never caught on but that just means their missing out
@@45-70Guy I’m one of them. I’m getting 2930fps with the 225gr game kings using CFE223 and a 26” barrel. Even good ol’ Varget pushes them to 2875fps in that barrel.
I started with 454 Casull, moved up to 460 S&W magnum. 260 grain flat point on both, while fishing. While hunting in AK, We hunted Sitka black tails with a 338 win mag. We were stalked by a coastal brown bear that we could not see in the rain forest. The gunshot is a dinner bell for bears. Now we find that gun shots are dinner bells for lions in Colorado.
The 35 whelen bolt action is the all around go to rifle that does it all out to 400 yds on all big game in North America. It works well enough from. Woodland Caribou amd dall sheep to yukon moose and is a thumper in big bear without that sharp Super magnum recoil
Yessir , that's good for the biggest and toughest bears . Calm or charging , in close or at 200-300 yards. Lots of penetration , good trajectory and just all around a great cartridge for hunting in general.
I worked California Dept of Fish & Game 1997-1999 in the Yolla Bolly Wilderness and Mendicino county Region 2. I believe it was 1998 a hunter brought it a huge 675lb black bear he took in the Yolla-Bollys. Consensus is massive amount of oak trees and acorns was the fattening factor
I first heard the term "Went all floppy" from an old Rhodesian Reservist who fought the insurgents in the Rhodesian Bush War. Used to go out on patrols for a week or so. Called it "Going to slot a floppy". "Why a floppy," I'd ask? "Coz when you hit them with a 7.62x51 NATO from the FN, they go all floppy". He was a great guy. As hard as nails.
The Rhodesian Scouts were tough alright. Much respect to them. Frederick Courteney Sous, the famed hunter, led a group called the Selous Scouts against the Germans in Africa in WW1. He was KIA in 1917- at age 66. Tough man, doing all that at that age.
Much appreciation for all the bear hunters for keeping us a bit safer. I don't want to be poking around in the woods testing bear temperament at all. It's interesting how the significant specifications priortize with dangerous animals. Projectile sectional density and composition, Energy, Velocity, Wind Component, and finally accuracy. That said, reliable and handy are probably at the top of the list. This is all way off from any experience I know of first hand but it's interesting to compare what I've learned. I was mostly ignorant of the 338- 3006 wildcat developed by the " Rifleman" Col. Whelen and his armorer Howe. Hold on now, this 67.7 grain capacity case can launch 220gr 358 cal. projectiles where the Parent Cartridge dropped out at 180-210 grains. Plus, the factory loadings are specified to slightly higher pressures. And the larger bore diameter makes the barrel much lighter with the ability to decrease barrel length well below 24" and increasing the taper and rigidity. Lighter, shorter, deadly game energy and standardized reliability. Probably the most amazing impressive first class grade A select choice numero uno might just be that the 35 Whelen Cartridge built properly will recoil with less than 24# recoil energy - like a 308 or 7mm. Add to the list, seeing your shot and expedited follow up.
I learned something about black bears, grizzly bears, and polar bears. I have encountered them frequently and have deliberately looked for trouble with them, excluding polar bears. Spring, summer, fall, and early winter with hours and hours of watching, stalking, and moments of excitement. Some encounters were just plain comical. Some were not quite neighborly, but we tolerated each other's presence; some were spooky, and some were just a pleasant day in the blueberry patch we shared but with yards of distance between us. And then there was the occasional threat. I learned that I had no idea what that bear would do in the next instant, and neither would the bear. Every bear biologist I spent time with knew the same thing. We can explain what they are doing right now, but not in the next moment. So whether or not I am going out to pick blueberries and share a sunny afternoon or give extreme grief to a bear, if I am going to use a firearm as a bear communication device, I want the final say. Big, loud, lots of flame and no doubt that you just did something substantial in communication.
Gaston Dalton our neighbor back in 1950 had a black bear in his spring house. It weighed 500 lb. He shot at one time. The back of the head of the 22 LR killed it dead
i really like that 338 WBY RPM in the Backcountry 2.0 rifle. You get a light, handy rifle that has plenty of velocity, energy, reach even with an 18” barrel; and the butt pad plus muzzle break (or a suppressor) really does mitigate recoil. …and i like the bigger hole vs 30s and smaller
Never bear hunted but have hunted in bear country usually elk. I either used 7 mag but later I used 300 short mag. Figured it would do the trick. Not all encounters are dangerous!!!!!!
My grandma filled her elk take every year since I was born in 1955 with a Savage M99 in 243. Her notion was "If you have to shoot elk from 500 yards, you're a fine marksman but you ain't much of a hunter". Grandpa would roll his eyes, point a thumb at her an say. "She just says that cuz she's the snealiest woman on Earth.
I see stuff like this posted all the time. Well, it’s not 1955 anymore. Elk and Mule deer hunting is harder than it was back then. There is a lot of hunting pressure and strict hunt ing regulations now. I used to hunt Elk on public land in Colorado. You’re lucky if you saw an Elk all week, and even luckier if you could get within 450 yards of one on public land. The average success rate for Elk for an unguided hunter on public land is well under 20%. Don’t use cartridges that severely limit your ability to harvest an Elk in the conditions you expect to find them. Prepare and be ready to take shots past 300 yards.
I was a guide up here in Montana for 30 years up until a couple years ago. I hunted my own elk with my first hunt in 1968. All on public land. Unguided success rates up here are around 10%. Guided hunts are at around 70%. I'm our camp just about every hunter had a shot. The number one cause was flinching. Second was unfamiliarity with the weapon beyond 100 yards. I'll take a sneaky skillful patient hunter over the latest Earschplitten Loutenboomer every time
If it's for defense in beer country a lightweight ar10 with quality ammunition, & a bombproof optic. Is a superb option that is incredible easy to use.
There was a meeting of the Ancient and Respectful Order of the Bear. There were Grizzly bears, Brown, Black, Kodiak and Polar Bears. The unanimous consensus was that the very best bear rifles are those that remain in the rack at home.
You guys should know better than to compare energy numbers between the 7mm-08 and 44 mag. They use different mechanisms to cause damage so its irrelevant to say the 7mm-08 has 3x the energy. That same 7mm-08 has 50% more energy than a 12 gauge shotgun slug, but which one would you choose for bear defense? If you look at momentum instead of energy you'll see that a 44 mag and 7mm-08 are quite similar in performance, with the 12 gauge beating both of them by 1.5x.
More often than not. The black bears in our area. Are usually taken during muzzleloader season in the Ozark mountains. Few are taken during modern gun. Last one a family member took was with a 100gr charge behind a 240gr XTP. This combo traversed 2.5' through the bear ( point of the left shoulder, towards the right hip )
I never get sick of this discussion. My two rifle battery (JVB’s idea from his podcast) would be an 18” 33 Nosler bolt action (controlled round feed Defiance Ruckus Ultralight action) for the big stuff and an 18” 6.5 Creedmoor AR-10 (forged magnesium ROAM receiver) for everything else. They’re near external ballistic twins out to 675 yards (within 2 inches of bullet drop and drift) when using Badlands Precision Bulldozer 2’s at 225gr and 135gr respectively. This monometal hunting projectile will still be going 1900fps at this range and per Badland Precisions tests will still expand.
The .300 mag dudes stay big mad, but I’m telling y’all…. .338 win mag is where it’s at. That’s a caliber that punches far above its weight, and has some serious butt-whupin’ power, even at face value. Thanks for the video, Ron!!!
My buddy has both the 300 and 338 W.M. he loves his 300's as he has built 2 custom. One for long range target and a hunter. He has also said if you want a lot of thump the 338 is the way to go. Think it is in a Browning B.A.R. I had an Alaskan guide born and raised there tell me 300 W.M. will take anything there with the right bullet. He asked if I knew why folks there file off the front site of their 44 mag pistols? I had no clue. He said that way it doesn't hurt so bad when the bear sticks it up their arse!😅 He was a hard one.
I don't know if enough has changed, but back a while, Rifle carried two reports on guides, grizzlies, and clients. Universal finding was that both number of rounds fired by the guides, and the clients were far lower if the cartridge was a 338 mag category. Basically the wheels came off with the "stopping rifles". And even the guides did worse when forced to deal with those situations, understandably. There were two camps reviewed, one felt the guides did better cleaning up with 375s. But the other camp was so serious about the 338s for clients, that they wouldn't let guides carry the better 375s. The thinking was that when they got asked "what do your guides shoot", and the answer was 375s, the clients would bite off more than they could chew. And the guides were still heads well above water, when armed with the 338s. The data reflected every shot fired at bears over a season, by clients and guides.
Anything chambered in 338 win mag, for as big of a bullet it is the ballistics are close to 7 rem mag speeds but dump wayy more energy. Browning A bolt, Ruger guide gun lever action , ruger m77 guide
Just ordered the rifle that will likely be my go to when I actually decide to apply for tags. Winchester XPR .338 Win Mag, I wouldn’t be afraid to go smaller, I mean maybe woods carry is a 9mm, but I think that Win Mag is just going to hit that sweet spot. At close range you won’t kill it too dead, and it’s still going to punch very hard at range. Caveat I’ll add us that if you’re not a reloader it’s not that cheap to shoot, not the worst but many are cheaper. For defense while hunting other species it’s also just fine, a little big but not going to destroy deer.
Yet another great discussion! Sir, many years ago, the USFWS did a test of the effectiveness of various calibers on Alaskan Brown Bears. I cannot find it at the moment, but someone will. As I recall, they determined that the 375 Magnum with 300 grain RNs was the best at the time. It would be interesting to see what our authorities might recommend now, but then we live in politically correct times and they likely won't even talk about bear defense.
Here in Washington most bears and elk are in cover. If you see them at distance get closer. Remington 742, 30/06, 180Gr.. handles like a quail gun. My choice for any big game in the woods and brush. Keep it clean.
I think a good point about the energy of 44mag for bears is for many people who are carrying 44 mag for bear defense are also carrying "bear ammo". Something in the neighborhood of Buffalo Bore 340gr hard cast. In a ruger redhawk 5.5" barrel you are getting close to 1500 ftlbs which is significantly more than the run of the mill 44mag round. But, can people shoot it effectively...?
34:04 I've heard that people can take down brown bears reliably with lead slugs that are over 540 grain. Brenneke style slugs in particular. 617 grain was the weight of Shirinsky-Shikhmatov slug designed some time before WWI for shooting brown bears at short range.
I have been taught to make the first shot count period .I learned to hunt with a single shot cil ,then a Spanish sidex and th n my franchi model 48 .That gun was tough to shoot a second shot accurately .The recoil was bad so I learned to take my tome to place my first shot .Was a great gun to snow shoe for Hares light fast first shot .Now i uses a beretta A303 for everything .Onve in a while i take out the savage 243 or special occasions my 111 in 300winmag .all depends
You guys left off the classic weight bullet for the 338s for dangerous game.........the 250's Their SD is .313. Once again you also left out the great 35 Whelen.
@@charlessmith4242the AI version of the 35 whelen is not much of an increase compared to the tigers Improved versions. A slight improvement non the less but not worth it with the new powders and Bullets we have. A 225g at 2800-2900 FPS is 338 win mag territory. Personally I run them less than that just for less recoil and also shorter barrel length limiting velocity but even at 2600-2650 a 225g bullet leaves very little to be desired.
@@merlinofnewit’s very surprising how manageable it is with the muzzle brake. It’s no worse than my 6lb .308 browning x bolt. Can sit down and shoot 3-4 boxes of shells no problem.
I loaded 350 grain fn at 1900 fps in 45-70. If you can shoot that you can dhoot a 375h&h which has recoil like shooting 12 gauge slugs that are 2 3/4" in length. Problem with 375 h&h ammo is expensive and not always easy to find. The 45-70 you have to make your own. Reloads or buy buffalo bore.
375 H&H ammo is easy to find where I am. Ammo is cheaper here than it is for 338 win mag. Also I find the recoil worse on a 338 win mag than I do on my 375 H&H. I can get a box of 10 bullets for 375 the cheapest I found was $47.99
I have shot the 338 wm and it recoils more than a 375h&h for me also. A light weight 7mm rem mag will kick the heck out of you in a light weight rifle as well.
My little old opinion.... I traded off my Marlin Guide gun , 45/70 and replaced it with a Browning BLR 450 Marlin. I live in Grizzly Country, and the rifle is a saddle rifle. Imo, there is no comparison. The BLR handles bolt action chamber pressures, has a box magazine and takes down. Using 45/70 brass worried me in the cheaply made Marlin/ Remlin 1895 Lever Gun. I handload and it shocked me how easily the 45/70 brass would dent. I don't have that problem with the 450 Marlin. It is a modern , high intensity load , using less powder but out performing the 45/70- safely. I can seat the bullet where I want and don't need to crimp in the box magazine. Luckily , I have much .450 brass. I have worked as a Game Guide here in B.C. and it was what I planned to use it. Grizzly season has since been shut down here. Bears are plentiful in our area, I get them in my barn or chicken house- or both
Eather my Browning 45.70 lever carbine with 350 gr bonded hp hand loads or my H&K 91 .308 with 20 rd clips of military FMJ armor piercing. Besides those two maybe my 300 Weatherby mag with nosler 200 gr. Partition. Otherwise I'll find a 375 H&H mag double
Shot placement is the most important, I Canada the Rangers were using Enfield mk3 but now they are issued the Tika in .308 and they have no issue taking Polar Bears
A true Outdoorsmen. I wish I grew up in this lifestyle. Hunted archery one time. My Dad got us lost and had to sleep outside on a property he knew since he was a child. 🤦♂️
You mention 10mm but 357 mag which is nearly identical would work just as well. And with newer 8 round revolvers like S&W and Taurus make it should be fine for black bear protection. IMO
So what about the 6.8 western? The 165gr ABLR is bonded and has an SD of .307 and its going fast! Also the 175gr would be an even higher SD although i'm not sure of the construction of that one.
I live in Pennsylvania North Central Pennsylvania elk Potter McKean county and we get some decent size bears 4 and 500 lb bears but I have shot in a 130 lb bear and my nephew was shot a 250 lb bear and that's the biggest. I personally have been in on a hunt with but we go around to the check stations in Pennsylvania here where we're at to see all the big bears and the biggest one I saw was a check station was 450 some pounds. There was actually two two of them the same day 1 mile apart by the same group of hunters. One was brown phased which I actually saw that bear in the summer that year. Pretty cool
I still think there is something to be said about those soft lead foster slugs, because when they turn into a frisbee hitting a bear, they're still penetrating deep, and muscle tissue/bone damage can incapacitate big bears just like a hollow point incapacitates bipedal predators. I'm unfamiliar with big Alaskan brown/grizzly bears but I have seen some big black bears and grizzly bears between Colorado and Wyoming get buckled by a 12gauge foster slug.
And after all this, which i loved.... massive coastal brown bears are taken with archery equip. Many decades back these massive animals were taken with lighter weight bows and hardwood sticks 😂... awesome show, enjoy the bear episodes!!
I live in NC and know a lot of bear hunters. We have the largest black bear in the world in the eastern part of the state. They kill 5 and 600 lb bears every year. Our record is 880 lbs. they all hunt with 45/70 444 or 44 mag. They have shot them with high powered rifles and lost them before. And even been attacked when going in a thicket to dispatch a wounded bear. It wasn’t pretty, especially when u have to saw down trees to Medevac a man out of the swamps after a large bear attack. The 600 pound bear bit this guy on the thigh and was jerking him around like a rag doll. But they use big bore on these bear. They hunt with dogs and have lost 5 or 6 in one race with a bear. Even the bulldogs. So large males 6 to 800 lbs are a different animal.
That's the saying i go by. No white's here in Missoula, but blacks and browns. The black bears scare me at night while camping. A dog is a literal life saver ( of the bear and me ). ☆
~7 min in....I recall the pneumonic "Brown lay down, Black fight back, White goodnight." ...the white being if you are ever unfortunate enough to encounter a polar bear...you're dead if they're hungry..
Bear story here. Dad got charged by a black bear with 30-30. Hit it all 5 times and it didn’t go down. Ok I shit you not one round hit the forehead and ricocheted with no penetration of the skull. It took a side hit that finally knocked it off it’s feet saving my dad.
Sectional density is why the old 6.5 military cartridges were so successful years ago on elephant. Long heavy skinny fmj have killed many with brain shots. Or like your 7mm08 the 7mm Mauser was popular with there 175gr fmj .
A few years ago, there was some possibility i would be moving to AK. Hoped i would get into hunting up there, at least somewhat. Figured i would get a 45-70 down here, and maybe a DA 44 mag, before going. Would wait to get a 10 mm (wanted one anyway) until after moving, because there are more choices up there (don't get me started on the Kalifornia "safety roster" for handguns). The plan was caribou, any sort of deer, and maybe moose. Wasn't concerned about a bear-specific rifle, if i even decided to hunt bears. Every pawn shop had 300 and 338 WM rifles, probably pawned or sold off by north slope oil workers. Lots of used guns in the gun shops too. Anyway, the relationship didn't work out and i am never going to move up there. Who knows, maybe i will go hunt the peninsula someday still. Good points as always, gents. Always thought provoking. My other thought for AK was to get an AR 10 with a second upper in 338 Federal.
The slugs with the big bear on the box (Brenneke Black Magic 3" Magnum 13/8oz) are serious bear medicine out to 100yds. Hard lead and with the classic Brenneke accuracy. But your shoulder will hate them almost as much as the bear does! 😆
Man what I’d give to hike,camp, and hunt with these 2…just got my lht on 6.5prc waypoint and been loadin over a yr for it with a cheap simmons I’ve had 24yrs..130gr tmk hellova round so is the 140s…almost made it through 3/4” mild steel at 200yrds..3050fps -3250fps
