The Best Way to Add Guns to D&D | The Gunslinger by Heavyarms 

are you the creator? Wintry just convinced me to buy this and the Armorer's Handbook 😊

I like you, mister, you have a kind face.

You know, Heavy: "A lot of conflict in the Wild West could have been avoided if the cowboy city planners had just made their towns big enough for everyone."

@@heavyhimself Well there are some things a man just can't run away from.

Very well done mate. This is a wonderful example of a job well done and is certainly a standard I aim to achieve.

There are a few justifications for a class. Modern guns can be picked up and used by anyone (though there likely to hurt themself) but historical firearms (Napoleanic and older) required a good bit of knowhow and specialized ammo/tools. Also preindustial firearms had little standization for anything not purchased by the Army so especially pistols could have wildly different loading, firing, and aiming mechanisms. However that does mean in a few respects you're correct. A musket is simple and standardized so anybody should have access. Also pistols, shotguns, machine guns, sniper rifles, any kind of cannon all operate so differently that 1 class for all of them doesnt make much sense. Maybe a guns supplement wherein several classes have access to 1 special firearm for each. (With the exception of sniper or pistol dueler since those are kind of their own class) Also I think if the Artificer picks a guns subclass then they should be allowed to repair all guns and possiblly aim/fire the heavy weapons since artillery has more to do with math/INT then aiming/DEX

@@ejsmith7626 "There are a few justifications for a class. Modern guns can be picked up and used by anyone (though there likely to hurt themself) " - As someone who actually own and use guns I want you to explain this. I can give a shotgun or a rifle to just about anyone that is physically able to hold it, and they can use it just fine. The only real risk of "hurting themselves" are if they are not handling them safely. Like pointing around with a loaded gun, or looking down the barrel. I am not sure if you know this, but guns are designed to be super easy to use, and to be used safely. So no. You are not likely to hurt yourself when using a modern gun. Gun owners are just VERY picky about safety rules because they can be lethal and you don't want any danger. Gun owners are very responsible people so they care about theirs and your well being. Those who are not is actually a tiny minority of people. And those people tend to be pretty bad people to be around regardless. You are MUCH more likely to hurt yourself driving a car than using a gun. but historical firearms (Napoleanic and older) required a good bit of knowhow and specialized ammo/tools. - I didn't know that you needed specialized ammo/tools to use a flint lock. Or are you talking about the crafting? You do know that you needed a winch pull the string of a crossbow right? Also what is the training time for these "specialized tools"? I find it hilarious that you think that ammo was "specialized". No they were not. They were extremely unstandardized and individual, but they were not specialized. You do know what specialized means right? A hollow point bullet is a specialized ammo. Black powder, a metal ball and a ramming rod isn't specialized. Also what exactly do you think the training time for the use of these weapons were? You do know humans are pretty smart. We can actually learn and we can do it pretty fast. Do you know how long it takes to become a good archer with a longbow? A bloody lifetime. That is the training time. You have to start when you are young. Not only to learn how to use it, but to gain the correct posture and upper body strength to even use it. Any specialized ammo/tools a gun needs is completely irrelevant when it comes to this very fact. There is a reason why crossbows and guns where used side by side for a time until guns won over as the superior weapon. "However that does mean in a few respects you're correct. A musket is simple and standardized so anybody should have access. Also pistols, shotguns, machine guns, sniper rifles, any kind of cannon all operate so differently that 1 class for all of them doesnt make much sense." - Uhmm... this is awkward. You are actually completely incorrect. First of all. Muskets were not "standardized". Guns for a VERY long time were very unstandardized. It was actually a very big issue during the American Civil War during the 1860's. Because of the fact every single gun was individually crafted you can't just replace a single part of a gun with any part from another gun. They simply didn't fit. You has to craft a new piece for the gun if you wanted to replace anything. Ammo and stuff was also a issue because everyone has their own guns. Some muskets, some rifles and many of the rifles and muskets did not even use the same ammo. This was a logistical nightmare. So no. They are not standardized. It might have been a little better for larger armies like the British or the France, but I doubt it since replaceable parts was not a thing back then. You also talked about Cannons.... oh boy. Now that is just silly for you to act like you know anything when you say they were standardized. During the late middle ages and early modern era. The cannon smith actually went to war WITH the gun they made. It is because they were the people who understood them. To use a cannon effectively was actually far beyond that of any "common soldier" as you have to calculate ballistics without any modern mathematical aid. To be a cannoneer was actually a specialized role. I also feel you are just picking guns from just about any time period you can find. You do know what age period D&D takes place in right? It is the late middle ages. Machine guns were VERY late inventions. Guns has been used in Europe since the 14th century, and shotguns were invented in the 16th century. The Machine gun was only invented in the late 19th century. So there is something around 500 years that separate the invention of the machine gun and the use of firearms in Europe. You also do know what a "Sniper Rifle" is right? It is not some kind of special gun. It is a normal rifle with a scope on it. The concept of a "Sniper Rifle" is a modern concept. Back in WW1 and WW2 it was just a regular gun with a soldier that was pretty good at marksmanship. A gun that does sniping is a sniper rifle. You can snipe with a handgun if you want, but you are not going to be good at it. "Maybe a guns supplement wherein several classes have access to 1 special firearm for each. (With the exception of sniper or pistol dueler since those are kind of their own class) " - Why? You have yet explained why guns in D&D need to be class based and not just used as a Heavy Crossbow or like a longsword is. Some classes got proficiency and other do not. They can train to gain it, but it is still just a tool. Do you have supplements for longbows, mauls and hand crossbows as well? I think you are making out guns to be this mythical thing when it isn't. A gun is a tool. A piece of wood and metal. Just like a sword is. A sword can be pretty complicated and it sucks if you don't take care of it, but it is just a tool. As someone who own and use guns. I do not see guns as mythical things. Do you? "Also I think if the Artificer picks a guns subclass then they should be allowed to repair all guns and possibly aim/fire the heavy weapons since artillery has more to do with math/INT then aiming/DEX" - First of. The rules say all Artificers already have gun proficiency if guns exist. Second. There is no "damage" mechanic in 5e. If you only use it for guns, I have to ask what is wrong with you? Why do you only use it for guns and not sword, crossbows and longbows. Like crossbows and longbows become worthless if it rains and the string gets wet. Where is the damage mechanic for that? Sorry bro. But I think you have funny ideas about what guns actually are.

yeah but cowboys are pretty cool

@@Quadrilli0n And you can't be a cowboy without having a dedicated class that for some reason have weapons that only they can use? I mean. I like knights. But I am not going to pretend that a longsword and shield should be class restricted that you can't just pick up. I have had way to make wooden sword duels to even pretend that is the case. What exactly is a cowboy? It is a guy riding on a horse, have a handgun and rifle and steals cattle, or protect them. You can be a cowboy with the fighter class and just use guns as the tool they are without class restricting them.

This looks like a discussion between two people who are actually disagreeing about why classes exist in the first place. Some people say that classes exist to codify a character archetype and flavor. Others say that a class is a kit full of synergistically compatible abilities that distinguish one character's abilities from any other.

You can supplement it with some of the magical guns in Airships Campaigns by Arcane Minis- or homebrew some magical ammo

@@Bluepuertorican5 Have you looked at the Artificer Artillerist? That looks like a more feasible build.

@@Bluepuertorican5 the Artificer infusion Repeating Shot makes the weapon magical and produces magical ammunition when you have none. I guess make sure you have an Artificer in your party or multiclass into one.

context: I tried multiple gunslinger classes with my character, including Matt Mercer’s, and nothing felt quite as good to play as Heavyarms’. I’m sure it could be powerbuilt to be a bit OP but the casual player will just have lots of fun with it and that’s all. very rewarding to hit a crit and see your hard work pay off

Then make them. The ones presented in the weapons description are examples.

Isn't that annoying for most people to keep track of?

I’ve found that magic is the reason why guns wouldn’t exist. What is the point of inventing gunpowder when you’re literally a walking artillery piece? Remember, DND takes place LONG after firearms should have been invented. Hand cannons were around almost 100 years before the first full plate Mail was created, and those tend to be in mass circulation in the world of DND. Firearms, specifically matchlocks, would be virtually everywhere by the time of most DND adventures were it not for some reason technology was stifled.

@@alphastronghold715 That makes sense, why use a loud and inaccurate musket when you have a quieter fireball? I’m thinking of writing some sort of fantasy setting, and so far regarding magic and firearms I have this: Magic is, essentially, using the power of Gods to manipulate the world around the caster. Basic soldiers aren’t taught spells because of the extra time to train, and the danger of them taking this sacred knowledge and using it for their own gain outside of war. Firearms, however, /can/ be taken away, and while they’re loud and innaccurate, a volley of musket balls could overwhelm a magician before they get close enough to cast a spicy Molotov at the troops. I’d say more but this is already long enough lol TLDR; Magic is nice but 10 peasants with rifles could shoot a nerd before they cast fantasy Molotov, and magic is literally God’s Work

@@HellaDelta42069 Here’s the thing you need to consider: how would technology advance in a world with magic? If magic and magical items are commonplace, why would you not have engineers making use of that? The concept of a firearm is simple: you stick a metal ball in a tube and blow something up on one end of it so it shoots the ball out the other side. Magic already has demonstrated in DND to be capable of accelerating objects at high speeds. So let me ask you this: Why is it no one in the DND universe has used the catapult spell to create effectively a magic railgun? Line a steel barrel with glyphs of catapult and use fireball to launch a projectile through it as the catapult glyphs accelerate it down the barrel. You have things like telekinesis which can lift several thousand pounds and yet you don’t have flying ships? Construction of structures like the pyramids would require the concerted effort of ONE MAN with telekinesis. Why even have cranes and architects when magic can do that work for you faster and easier? Could you imagine the scale of the architecture if you no longer had to worry about the physics of moving things? Or with teleportation circles inscribed onto mining quarries to place monolithic citadels in obscure areas impossible to build otherwise? You are no longer bound to locations with resources within ferrying distance of the area, go crazy with it! Firearms should be stupidly easy to manufacture in the DND world since all you need is any Wizard capable of casting fireball and glyph of warding and stick that into a bullet casing in place of the gun powder. Why would people not use this? Simple: because any old shmuck can learn the catapult spell and do the same thing with likely the same amount of training. Why limit yourself to what you already know? Think about the capabilities that people have and what their goal is to accomplish. You no longer have the binds that the engineers of old had, Improve upon the designs of history and get creative! Your potential is literally limitless!

the diference is that only a handful of people can cast fireball, and it takes time, effort and years of practice and you can only use it like twice per day (lets remember that a player party is supposed to be a group of heroes a step above the normal folk, and even then most adventurers get stuck at like level 5 the PCs are special because they are able to go beyond that level) a gun meanwhile, you give a guy a gun and suddenly he can cast lead, also a gun is pretty powerful you are basically throwing arrows at super sonic speeds at huge ranges and with a huge amount of posible guns, a gun can be pretty destructive specially because you only have to care about ammunition not spell slots in the case of playable gunslingers, on top of becoming gods with guns being able to do all kinds of trick shots and having an insane precition with their weapon of choice they can probably get themselves some magic for their weapons to make themselves even more powerful or equiping themselves with more advanced weaponry, just imagine a half orc carrying around a huge M2 browning or a long range sniper with a barret M82 shooting .50 cal BMG at a dragon's head

@@carso1500 >The difference is that only a handful of people can cast fireball, and it takestime, effort, and years of practice and you can only use it like twice per day Not all fantasy settings are the same :/

Why am I getting Marathon 2 vibes

Cool

what in tarnation

I'm framing this comment on my wall. It's just... it's beautiful.

This is a text book example everyone for how to tell your players you don't want something at the table without being the bad guy and flat out saying 'no'. 🔫🤠🔫

Biggest difference is no fighter chassis and different gun mechanics! personally I'm not a fan of the misfire mechanic in the mercer version, but it comes down to preference =)

@@WintryRPG The misfire is a 1-to-1 crossover with the Paizo gunslinger class, so I understand why it's there. Matt was very new to conversions at the time.

@@KevinVideo and that 1-1 crossover what exacttly what was warrented ;) they were playing pathfinder pre-stream...

This really goes for muskets. which did exist in medival europe and earlier versions of the gun.

Or how about a wizard enchanting it's rifle or pistol with infinite ammo

I feel a rouge dip is strongly discouraged with this class, because it trades its own damage scaling for the situational one of the rouge. Mind you it's not too dificult to get sneak attack with the rouge, however it would be one more thing to keep in mind, for benefits that really don't matter to you too much. The class has a built in disengage, so even cunning action is not that much of a benefit. This class wants to keep hitting targets to keep its enhanced crit range, so the penalty of sharpshooter conflicts with the classes base features. I DMed for a Gunslinger in my game and it was loads of fun. There really isn't anything like it in 5e. :D

@@forte_dx1813 What Sharpshooter penalty? Just allows you to ignore cover and suffer no Disadvantage to attacks at Long Range.

@@forte_dx1813 Cunning Action also allows the bonus action to be used to Dash or, more significantly, Hide. If successful this means next attack is at Advantage to trigger a ranged Sneak Attack.

if they got hit

I think 3d10 is a good reward after four turns of setup, combats only last like 6-8 rounds. four rounds of perfect aim only nets you a 25% chance to crit and inflict wounds can happen at turn 1 at level 1 with no setup 😁

You gain the benefit (reducing by 1 your critical range for your subsequent ranged weapon attacks) whenever you hit with a ranged weapon attack. Its passive, it doesn't have any limit of uses. By 14th level, whenever you gain the benefit (whenever you hit with a ranged weapon attack), you gain it one additional time (in other words, you gain it again, meaning you gain the benefit twice). Normally to reach critical range 16, you would need to hit 4 times in a row. At level 14th, you only need to hit twice to reach critical range 16.

a waste of time, go play pathfinder 2e

A tabletop RPG whose full name is Dungeons and Dragon's. You've probably heard of it.

As I encounter this line of argument fairly often, please allow me to paste a preemptive response to it from the class's appendix! "We believe this class offers a more unique, exciting, and genuine expression of the fantasy (or fiction) of firearms than could reasonably be achieved in a smaller package." Expanding on this a bit: Minimalism is a fine design-principle, but in my opinion isn't a doctrine to be followed blindly. Under such dogma, even official classes can and should be reduced to a subtype of either fighter or wizard (after all, a barbarian is just an angry fighter; a monk an unarmed fighter; and a rogue a cunning fighter). If your counterargument (dear reader) is that Rogue/Sneak Attack is a strong enough pairing (feature and theme) to warrant its own class, then I absolutely agree, and only request the same consideration be extended to classes from any source.

I dont think so, crit fishers arent that good and you loose the benefit really easily

@@xadielplasencia3674 Yeah, I don't think it's broken. If anything, it's a risk-reward mechanic

@@xadielplasencia3674 If ya max dex and wis by level 7, you have 8 + Wepacc bonus to your hit, withan optional +5 for a total of +13 Meaning to not score a 16 crit you'll need to roll a 1 or 2, or a 10% chance, if you flank it's a 1% chance instead

@@Sinchu9 Sure but that is after hitting 4 times in a row and the benefit is just to crit, wich is good, but isnt a mayor bonus to dpr (especially in the new UA)

While I do understand the concern, Heavyarms has included a plethora of math comparing the DPR of the Gunslinger at every level in comparison to the Battlemaster Fighter and Thief Rogue, to the Maverick Gunslinger, all maxed out, with and without feats. I can guarantee that Mr. Arms has made certain that the gunslinger works within the confides of the core books without overshadowing them.

The genre is fantasy, Sword and Sorcery is a sub genre of Heroic Fantasy, which is also a sub genre of fantasy. Most tabletop RPGs like DnD are High Fantasy, not Sword and Sorcery.

Found the "just play 'X system' instead" guy

JUST PLAY F.A.T.A.L.

@@CharoGaming dont need to change system, just take the firearm rules and fire arms from it

Found the fascist

The Grit point system is actually from the Gunslinger of Pathfinder! Or at least, was found there well before Mercer's or Heavyarm's was released. The Mercer Gunslinger was converted from that edition, so to avoid giving the wrong source material credit, I left it out =) There's easily dozens of Gunslinger takes floating around on the internet, and as I mentioned, everyone draws from the same media interpretations. There's bound to be overlap, and that's alright.

I don't even think the reload quality is necessary. You could give guns innate feats while wielding them instead, like innate Sharpshooter with marksman rifles or innate Crossbow Expert with revolvers or lever rifles that work with that gun only (bonus action attack with the gun you're wielding if you already attacked with it.) The most attacks someone could realistically achieve in a turn is 9 with a level 20 Fighter, and that's with an Action Surge and Crossbow Expert. Most of the time you would be getting 4 (5 with Crossbow Expert) attacks, which is more than fitting for a revolver.