hello alright, I really liked your explanation about the speed propellers, Trike here in Brazil many people will like your self explanatory video, thank you very much.😀
I agree with you Giles. It appeared the two blade props were a bit quieter, with final prop 1.3m most efficient. I felt the Helix 3B sounded like mad hornets. Lol ! Obviously, there are many factors not mentioned that effect performance. Weight, aspect ratio, pitch, compression, etc. Overall, nice review !!
Hi Allan, yes, although the Eprop was probably the noisier of the 2, 3 Blades, I think I'll struggle to sell them now.. Doh! I suppose it just goes to show, thrust isn't everything.
Thanks Giles, I was wanting another Prop for a spare and you answered all my questions. Love your videos, hope you come down under one day and we'll go for a fly.
Hi Radar, thank you for the feedback, I'm always nervous of making videos like these as someone always pops up and likes to argue. I'll get to Australia one day, a long flight in a Peabee. 🤔😁.
Hey great answered a few questions i had! First determining which is best can depend on where you fly as well. Where you are flying dosent look like big mountains and few high obsticles. So org 2 blade helix giving you a better cruize is a plus at lower rpms. But trade off on 3 blade helix is less engine vibration on 3 blade. Thats a plus on crank shaft wear. So based on your stats i was thinkin of the 3 blade e prop as oposed to my 3 blade helix. The 3 blade helix gives me a great climb and that is a plus in big air and mountains. Plus i see about the same results in your test on rpms. So adding in the vib mins in the 3 blade helix iam more convinced this is the right prop for the job. E prop may give me a slight bit more quicker acceleration because of weight to spin. But clearly the results you show its min. There all good props but choice may be more defined by where you fly and the type of flying you do. Cruise as oposed to climb efficiency. Thanks GF great info
As you have seen its a balance of factors. I really don't get this fast accelerating piece. In nearly 30 years of aviation, its not really a discussion point. I hope the information was of help, at least you can select the propeller for your needs.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 yeah black devil 174 cc and I think it may be a 130 not 120 but it came with an 07 pitch and reved to 8300 rpm which is 400 rpm above the max rpm for the motor according to the owners manual . Was told they should have come with 08 pitch so was delivered with the prop for the para motor not the trike . They replaced it with an 08 pitch and now it revs to 7950 rpm every time, just right . I get bout 450 to 550 fpm but my ant is 96 kilos with combat wing not including up to 18 litres of fuel.
Interesting explanation Giles, a fixed pitch prop is always going to be a compromise, has anyone invented a variable pitch version for flexwing motors?
Hi Terry, ultimately the weight addition and complexity does not really outweigh any benefit gained by having a variable pitched propeller. The 4 propellers, were in reality, very close in performance.
@@justharryjohnson7250 vittorazi actually stated that the most thrust comes from the bigger 1.4 meter propeller. However, I wanted to not just do static tests, in fact I avoided them, I wanted live tests in real conditions. We us propellers for different types of performance. I'd rather have a propeller for sustained cruising than climbing. Ben fitted the 1.3m but only told me afterwards.. Haha
@@GolfFoxtrot22 BTW... It appears my son, who is stationed at RAF Croughton, is going to start PPG training with Alex at Sky-School. Its just a 15 minute drive for him to get there. 👍😎👍
Interesting video. Propeller performance is quite a complex subject, and your tests were very informative. It looks like Ben Ashman got it right with the original prop. That E Prop was definitely a noise maker compared to the others. Cheers!
Excellent video as always... Nothing more misterious than propellers and nothing more dangerous also. Thank you for posting smart videos like this one for us to enjoy. More ! That E-Peabee .... Who is the expert on electric power systems for aircraft in the UK you think ? Anything like Geiger Engineering in your part of the world ?
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Get him back for an all electric conversation. A 20 min E Peabee is possible. Maybe on the Adam ...a retract all electric microlight. Wow...just imagine that ! You fly it .
@@GolfFoxtrot22 if i had the Ben's credentials i'd be getting some government funding to keep the UK at the top of the sport aviation foodchain (electric no doubt). As soon as Covid is gone i'm going electric maybe with some cheap paratrike and cheap R/C based power system to take me to cloud base . By that time E Peabees will be all over the place (sky)
This was great! I'm the only person in my group of flying paramotorists that have the 2.87 reduction and 130cm prop. I'm still using wood, but it's good to know that the Helix 2-blade 1.3m is an excellent next prop. I've liked the Helix for the weight and foam core, and I'm already a big guy so a few extra ounces is fine for me. I know that more thrust was NOT your intent, but did you get ANY sense between the 4 props of a difference in thrust or amount of time it took you to take off? Thanks so much for making this video and sharing your data!!
I'm glad it helped. I didn't have a thrust meter, which is one of the things I would have like to test. I think if you took the climb performance as a representation of the overall thrust, it would give you the figure for which propeller would give the most thrust. But I wanted to see which performed best over all and not one area. I hope that helps.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Aye, very helpful! I'll probably go with the Helix 2-blade 1.3m as my next prop. I do wonder if the 3-blade Helix 130cm would give more thrust for slightly less efficiency at level flight? I've seen a few comparison videos that seem to imply such things. I'm a big dude and I could use a bit more thrust, but not at the loss of decent efficiency! I'm already flying a 31m wing and my Moster 185 is guzzling about 2 gallons (7-8 liters) per hour. Trying to lose some weight, but you gotta start somewhere.
Ironically the most efficient propeller is a single blade. Because we fly at different speeds, different propellers will perform better in different aspects of flight and hopefully I've shown that. I hope the video was of use then.
Great video, surprised with the results. Also 2 different brands giving different results? What’s that all about, has one got slimmer blades than the other? Would be good to know why the were different?
Hi Andy, unfortunately I don't have enough knowledge to fully understand all the ins and outs. What we really need is a variable pitch prop. Get one of them knocked out on your 3D printer 😂😂.
Great video 👍 It's stuff like this that makes me so proud to be your bestest friend in the whole world.... ok,Canada..... Maybe Ontario....ok you're most favorite YT follower🤣
Great news, I don’t have to splash out on a new prop! Impressed with my engine today, had a two hour five minute flight on ten litres of fuel. Seems to be getting more frugal as it runs in.
Hi Nick, I hope you are well? Yes, they do get better as the engine beds in. Also you might be more used to the subtle changes and getting off the top jet.
Hey Fox, just found your channel, love it! I have a question. Do you ever think an Ultralight could be built to utilize the ground effect if it could be made safe enough? Most like over water primarily?
Hello Denzel, welcome to the channel. Anything is possible, but how much would it cost. I know there are some very simple ground effect vehicles, Wigs but the issue is mostly power to get off the water. My little 25 hp would struggle.
One thing that might be mentioned here is the engine. I have a polini thor 250 water cooled on my soaring trike, very exspensive. So far ive been totally impressed and instead of belt drive its got a centrifical clutch. Soaring trikes use small engines so weight of the prop vs starting tourqe can have a significant impact on engine wear. So iam not a big fan of heavy wood props. Helix has had good results for me but ive also been interested in e props , i think their lighter and slimer so your data is somewhat as a surprise.
We broke the 166cm Arplast props on the Quasar 582, but luckily enough managed to get the original 168cm, thinner and tipped props from the previous owner. These were the OE equipment. The 166cm were apparently an upgrade from the time of the Quantum, that followed the Quasar. The long, thin tipped props do indeed give a noticeable 'rasp', which is not as pleasant as the tune from the shorter, fatter blades.
Hi Tom, all are fixed pitch. The climb rate at the beginning was not part of the calculations as it was not at trim. I could climb at a slower speed but I want to keep as many factors constant as I could.
Hi Giles. Did any of the props have the extra width at the base, for cylinder head cooling? I gather the prop with that feature is £15 more. And could that change its performance?
Many thanks for this video. You saved my wallet :D If you could write into description under this video specifications for each prop it would be great. Keep going with great videos. ;)
Hello Martin, I'm so glad this has helped and if it's saved your wallet, then this video was worth all the effort. I'll try and find the specs and add it to the description. I'm away at the moment but I should be able to to sort it in a week or so. Just for clarification, what details do you need?
When we're talking about 15 fpm climb rate, I really think we're within the margin of error at that point, especially given the inconsistency of atmospheric conditions.
I’m surprised by your results with the E-Props 3-blade, Giles. I know that some manufacturers of flex-wing aircraft have found marked improvement in performance and fuel economy with E-Props multi-blade props. That said, the lightest aircraft I have seen these results for is 115 kilos. In the end, you have to go with what you can actually confirm. Reminds me of the folding versus non-folding prop controversy for sailboat auxiliary engines - do you want the extra 0.1Knot of speed sailing, or do you want the prop to give maximum power when you have to “hoist the iron jib.”
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Thank you, I will be waiting. I am very interested in microlight and there are few such films in Poland. I'm in training and my trike will be flying soon too.
The original is the go , I think the factory probably did all the tests to match the prop to the engine to get a good power to reliability ratio. I mean how quick do you want to climb in one of these little toys of aircraft😂😂love my ant sweet machine out of the box ,I’m leaving it alone 👌🇦🇺🍻
I find the information on your prop test interesting . BUT without the pitch of the blades posted in inches of travel in 1 - 360 deg. of travel . The information is mute . A fine pitch prop in a set length will have a higher RPM and faster climb rate. A coarser pitched prop will give you a better cruise , but poorer climb for you RPM . The info would help a lot.
I wouldn't say its mute, I'm using the propellers that have been designed for this engine and this reduction. If you use any other propellers, they wouldn't be designed for the engine by Helix or EProp.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Yes They maybe the props that are chosen by the engine manufacturer or trike fabricator as available to the market in fixed pitch . You should really search out a small Ground Adjustable prop and see what the difference changing the pitch can make .
@@reelflyt I know that Vittorazi work with both Helix and EProp when they make their propellers, but how close to best performance that is, I have no idea, this was just a simple comparison video. I would love to find a variable pitch set up, but unfortunately they don't make a variable pitched prop for these paramotor engines, there is one but its a notched one that only allows staged pitch changes. I do appreciate your comments. If you have found a variable pitch prop, please let me know.
@@GolfFoxtrot22 Hi and Thank You for replying to my post . You asked for examples of variable pitch props for small engines . I have found 2 . www.competitionaircraft.com/ultra-prop-ii aeroprop.aero/en/products/propellers/ I hope this helps . I am not familiar with your motor so I have to guess at it's HP .
@@reelflyt I had a quick look, these are for 80-100 hp engines, mine is only 25 hp, it's basically a paramotor engine with a 185cc capacity. I do appreciate your help. In the last decade of flying these types of engines, I'd only ever seen 1 stepped propeller system. Thanks again.
hi giles how our you i just ordered the 3 pladed e prop i was told that it be a lot better on fuel thats why i ordered it i do hope ive not wasted all that money haha thanks giles
Hi Frosty, I sold both of my three blades as they didn't actually give any better performance, and even further tests proved they were worse in the cruise. What diameter and pitch did you get. Sorry if that is not the reply you were looking for.
hi giles its for the air conseption nitro 200 its the plug andf ply prop ordered from customair paramotors that deal with air conseption i think its 1/2/7but not sure on that @@GolfFoxtrot22
@@frosty2331 what is the pitch. You'll probably find it's a very fine pitch and so will rev a little higher for the same trimmer settings. They do sound awesome though.
@GolfFoxtrot22 morning Giles don't know what the pitch is but I'm sure I will find out if any good but will compare the 2 props if 2 blade is better then the 3 will have to go haha I just need better efficiency and I just got the gin paramotor pod and new wing now needing some good weather to try it all out
