The Beyerdynamic DT 880 (600 Ohms) Does Not Need The Power You Were Told 

Very interesting topic. After some (a lot) of reading, it seems that we can think of the amp as a voltage source with a resistor (amp's internal resistance) connected in series with the headphone. You turn the volume knob to increase output voltage and thus you get a louder volume out of the headphone. The ratio between the series resistor and the headphone's coil resistance determines how much of the voltage gets applied over the resistor (turns to heat) and the headphone (turns to sound, kinda). Now, the impedance of dynamic headphones changes with frequency. For HD600 at 1kHz it's 300Ω, so 1V output with 1Ω output impedance get's applied as 0.03V over the resistor and 9.97V over the headphone. At 100Hz the headphone is 600Ω and the numbers are 0.02V and 9.98V. So voltage over the headphone changes just 0.01V across the whole frequency band. But, if the amp's internal resistance was 100Ω, voltage over the headphone would be 7.5V @ 1kHz vs. 8.6V @ 100hz, so the amp now put out 1.1V more for the bass region. In general, as the amp's output impedance grows from zero towards the headphone's nominal impedance, then changes in the headphone's impedance have more effect on that voltage division, and it starts to impose the 'phone's impedance curve as an EQ which you then hear. So an OTL tube amp would also add more bass to an HD600 via this mechanism. Also this would explain why cables with different resistance can have an audible sound difference with loud speakers where the resistances are smaller than with headphones. And since its a series resistor, you should be able to test this by taking a 0Ω amp and adding a 100Ω resistor in series with the headphone. In fact, the headphone output of the Emotiva A-100 is implemented in this way. They take the speaker outputs and put a 200Ω resistor in series. They say that it's tribute to vintage implementations and that many people prefer it that way. If the headphone would be 200Ω also, then it'd end up seeing just halv of the output voltage, and it's impedance curve would be applied as an EQ as explained above. Also if you do the math, it turns out that a high-output-impedance puts about the same amount of power to a wide range of headphone impedances (e.g. about 100mW for 16 - 600Ω headphones), whereas a low-output-impedance amp put a lot more power to low-impedance cans and then it drops down to that same 100mW at 600Ω, for example. The jumpers on the Emotiva bypass this resistor and the output impedance becomes close to zero [source: Keith-something who seems to represent Emotiva on a forum, and the A-100 manual for some parts]. I have not heard this amp with the DT 880 so I don't know if its better or worse than something else, but with the jumpers in place its about 0Ω. Someone mentioned voltage rails, and the A-100 has 24V rails IIRC, but if raising the voltage means turning the volume up, then we'd only be using a small portion of that max voltage. If a transient would require more than max voltage in a smaller amp, then it would cut it at max, ie. it would distort and not e.g make the bass more sluggish. Now, I did fid some discussion about improving the dynamic behavior of under-damped 'phones by increasing the output impedance, though it seems that was mostly for much lower-impedance 'phones than 600Ω. But I dunno, maybe it could also get overdamped at a really high ratio of 'phone vs output impedance, so it'd be slower than critically damped. But now I'm purely guessing. There was a mention that one could also add a capacitor there and then tune the EQ effect with the resistor and then somehow the dynamic response with the capasitor. There's also talk that distorsion increases as output impedance goes up, but one guy was speculating if its actually just because of how it's measured and if its really affecting the audio. Some other guy was saying that damping factor doesn't have any discernible effect on headphone sounds as the driver masses are so low and the damping effects from air is great - speakers would be much more suspectible to damping factor limits. So, complex. What I think of this is that maybe if you have a 100Ω BeyerDynamic amp, then probably it's designed to drive headphones with impedances from 300Ω and up. I don't know what you'd then do, but it seems likely that you can use that limitation to optimize something in the amp so that it works really well for those cans, but maybe a 0Ω could work even better for low-impedance cans. And mobile devices and bluetooth amps don't have a lot of voltage, so low impedances are favourable (max power output also). So, interesting test would be either adding that series resistor or trying to add e.g. with the 'phones impedance curve shape to a 0Ω amp to see how much closer does it get to that 100Ω amp in sound. Maybe with those switchable-Z amps. And the capacitor, though I dunno nothing 'bout it. I'll be following your videos for more! Sources: www.innerfidelity.com/content/musings-headphone-amplifier-output-impedance www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/does-the-amplifier-voltage-swing-limits-headphone-dynamics.9483/ nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

I feel like you could've just called out Zeos and he wouldn't have cared...

While I admire your enthusiasm for the hobby and your somewhat scientific approach to determining what causes some differences between the amps vis a vis the 600 ohm DT880's (I've had my pair for years and got me into building my own headphone amps and then getting a plethora of headphones to test my amps), you are missing a key point on amplifier design. I have been an EE for 40 years and a geek all my life and have been messing with audio since the 60's. A little history might clear things up. In the stone age of headphones, they were all 600 ohms or thereabouts for one reason. Early amps of course used tubes and tubes are voltage devices, whereas transistors are current devices. So when you are driving a relatively delicate coil that is found in a headphone that can't dissipate much power, and you hit it with high voltage with a low impedance coil like you have in most of today's headphones, you get a lot of current, according to Ohm's law. All that current will make short work of the coil very quickly. That is why 600 Ohms was chosen, to keep the high voltage from destroying the voice coils. You have only a part of the answer when you talk about power. You also have to factor in what the voltage swing is. Power is a relationship between voltage, current, and impedance. If you want to make a high impedance headphone 'sing' you need a substantial voltage across the voice coil. Most modern amps are current devices with relatively low voltage outputs, which work nicely with low impedance headphones. While a low output impedance of less than an Ohm is easily achievable with a transistor amp, it was not so with tube amps and is the reason why tube amps usually have problems with a good damping factor with low impedance headphones and the bass will sound 'flabby' because it is severely under-damped. My guess is the amps that sounded 'good' with the DT880's have higher output voltages than the ones that don't, and the reason the DT880's do well on the Emotiva, because it is a speaker amp is running much higher voltage rails. Your amp comparisons really are almost worthless w/o an ABX switch box. You may be able to tell a difference in bass levels with your technique, but there is little if any difference in higher frequencies that you can detect. BTW, in my opinion the Schitt and Audio GD amps might look nice, but their electrical designs are dubious if not downright ridiculous. There are much better designs for far less money and you seem to have quite a few of them. Price is a poor performance indicator when it comes to amps. Keep reading NWAVGuy's stuff. He explains it much better than I can and is spot on. ASR is an excellent resource for anything recent.

If I recall that “other reviewer” said to get the 880s to sound the best you need a large amount of power. I understood what he was getting at. He didn’t say you can’t drive them with less power. They just didn’t sound as good.

I like your reviews but the "i'm not like other youtubers' shtick is kind of exhausting. I think your reviews are more helpful than you realize and, you shouldn't worry so much about zeos or, whoever, really. Thanks for the heads up on these, anyway! If I'm ever interested in a v-shape, man, they sound fun. And you're very nice to justify your preference of the special edition but, goddamn, they look so much better.

What you’re saying makes far more sense (damping factor, output impedance) than what Zeos advocated for this, which I found funny but you’re right it can be dangerous - but just to be clear, he wasn’t stacking amps so much as using a feature of the Geshelli Labs Enog2 Pro DAC, which has three “volume levels” that are selectable via the button on the front, but this is designed to reduce the volume from normal output for amplifier matching: “The ENOG2 Pro DAC has a dual function switched located in the front of the device. If you hold down for 3 seconds it will change the volume level. There are three volume levels to choose from. Each level will significantly reduce the output volume for increased compatibility with different amplifiers or connected peripherals.” That is the feature he’s using. I have this DAC connected to my Cavali Liquid Carbon X and I’m using the default normal output, not one of the two lower volume output settings. Presumably he’s also using the normal volume output setting and not one of the reduced output levels.

Dayum, that's some good work you've done. Kudos for that.

I have a vintage pair of DT-880 600ohm from the eighties. With most amps they do sound quite thin and not fun at all, but I used to have an Audio GD Phoenix which I consider the perfect match for the headphones. Everyone who came to my home and listened to that combo were literally blown away how great a 30€ used old pair of headphones could sound. It's not about the specs or measured performance but finding the best working combinations.

So I bought the 600 Ohm Dt880's. Tried them with a Zen Dac. They get loud but most frequencies sound like trash, it doesn't have enough power I think, the output impedance is low too. So the Zen Dac now functions as my primary DAC, so it's still very useful. Back when I watched this for the first time I didn't get the point and bought the Liquid Spark rather than any of the amps you recommended (I couldn't find that 60$ thing from Douk Audio/Nobsound at the time, The Samson S-Amp was and still is not available where I live, and the Marantz PHA-3 was more expensive than the Liquid Spark). So anyway I play them on high gain at anywhere from 9 to 12 o'clock and to me they sound fantastic, but these are the most expensive and best quality headphones I bought yet and my first open back on top of that. So I don't know any better. When upgrading my amp though, I will pick the Emotiva BasX A-100 because they can power my Jamo s803 passive speakers that I bought as speakers for my computer while also powering my Dt880s 600Ohm (the headphone out has a power of 350 mW per channel at 600 Ohm, 8 Ohms: 60 mW / channel; not 50W like you claimed in the video. [ emotiva.com/collections/all/products/a-100 ] ) and this does it all in one box, rather than having two separate boxes: a speaker amp and a headphone amp, like I do now, so it's gonna save me some deskspace and where I live I can still buy it and it's for roughly 200$ less than the Beyerdynamic a20, which is just a headphone amplifier. It's also like a 100$ more than my speaker amp(class D fosi audio from aliexpress) and headphone amp combined, but it's gonna be an upgrade on both fronts so It's absolutely ideal for me. I might have to spend another 100$ on an RCA bluetooth receiver, cause I don't know if my btr5 will as a bluetooth receiver for it. I don't think it will since it doesn't work as a dongle dac for my headphone amp either, just bypasses the whole thing, it's hella weird.

The Emotiva BasX A100 does not put out 50 watts into 600 ohm headphones. The manufactures spec sheet states it outputs 0.6 watt (600 milliwatts) into 600 ohms. Just ohm's law at work.

Thanks for the review i use headphone for hours on end since i am a master/producer

Also Forgot to mention that my Dark Voice (with upgraded Tubes) Loves the DT880’s and also powers them effortlessly with insane Volume even at 10 O’Clock👍 So Do not discount using your Tube amps for driving these.

i´ve checked the s-amp with the dt880s/600. The S-amp has enough power for driving the 880´s with insane volume at 12 o´clock and the sound seems better cause it´s clearer. BUT!! the whole spacious magical sound from the dt880´s is gone. The reason for that seems, the S-amp is somehow cutting the high frequencies.The soundstage is getting much smaller with the s-amp. I don´t know from where exactly, but i´m guessing s-amp cuts somewhat above 11 or 12 khz on. So it is no wonder the sound seems clearer with a voicecoil which has not much to do, cause it uses not the whole sound spectrum. Anyway, it´s a nice little amp for insane volume speacially with high ohm BD HP´s and maybe for playing arround a bit.

I have the have the MMX 300, DT 880, DT 990 - all of them with 600 ohm impedance. It's pretty obvious that I like Beyers. I can perfectly drive all of them with my Burson Playmate (2 W @ 32 ohm). Execpt for very quiet recordings going anywhere above 60 on high gain gets uncomfortably loud. Edit: Nevermind. Just got a Beyerdynamic A 20 and it wipes the floor with the Burson when it comes to 300+ Ohm headphones.

Thank you, finally someone who understood the point AND also pointed it out properly.

Simply the vídeo I needed. We bought the DT990 600 Ohms and we was looking for an amplifier. Thanks by tour help

It might be isterested to see meassurement graphes of the different AMPs + dt 880 how/if the output impedance influence those.

I m ordering dt 880 600ohms to be powered by idsd mciro black. 5 years ago i used to have the 250ohms versikn powered by a fiio a5 amp. Hopefully the 600ohm version with the micro idsds black will sound better.

Love your videos mate, but Zeos does say specifically, making loud sound doesn't mean that the Amp is right for the Cans. But great video nonetheless mate.

I recently pulled out my DT 880 250 ohm Chrome Edition and was pleasantly surprised at what I was hearing from my Magni 3+. Compared to the DT 990 600 ohm it’s not as different of a sound signature as many would believe. DT880 has slightly more forward and intimate mids and the treble isn’t as hot. Bass is very similar between the 2 models with slightly more midbass kick on the DT 990. I don’t have the assortment of amps that you have but both headphones exhibit a tuning that’s more suitable in a wider range of music than say for example the Focal Elegia. Now I need the DT 880 600 ohm Limited Edition to compare. Even if it’s close to the 250 ohm version I feel these headphones are keepers.

I think there are a few things to address from this video so as not to (intentionally or not) mislead people. Firstly, ohms law, and how power scales with impedance does not seem to be mentioned AT ALL in this video. Take the emotiva BasX for example. It is 50w yes....at 8ohms. Meaning at 600ohms it can only provide 660mW of power. Also remember that power scales in a logarithmic manner, and so -8dB on that amp would keep you well below the 100mW max limit of the dt880. (or just don't run it high gain) at 32ohms or any normal headphone load, it only has twice the power of the 789 or Topping a90. If you are not on high gain, and are not running it absolute full tilt, you are fine, and your ears will be damaged long before the headphones are. Secondly, you seem to be inferring that a higher output impedance results in the headphones being driven better, which is demonstrably false. Higher output impedance can alter the tuning of a headphone, due to the fact that dynamic drivers do not have a flat impedance across the frequency range. However it DOES NOT result in more power being supplied to them. If a high output impedance amp results in a better sound, it is a result of personal preference of sound signature, NOT how well the headphones are being driven. This could of course explain why zeos liked them on the BasX, and its the reason why the HD800 are so amp picky for example. But to say that they are being driven better is equivalent to saying my car goes faster because it has racing stripes. I might enjoy driving it more, but it does not actually drive better

I've been enjoying my DT880 Pro 600Ohms for the last ~10 years, paired with an upgraded Woo Audio WA6 v1, a Sophia Princess Rectifier tube and different driver tubes I roll depending on how I feel. Nothing super extraordinary really (I mean, it's a $900 amp without the upgrades) but it's an incredibly good match. Super enjoyable experience

All you do is rag on Z. It just makes you sound weak, you do have all the lingo rehearsed though.

High output impedance changes FR. It doesn't improve anything by default.

27:19 "Would a really powerful amplifier with low output impedance sound the same as a low powered amp that has high output impedance? Well, it's hypothetically possible" Uhmm... Emotiva?... it has high power AND high output impedance (up to 220ohm). Both you and Zeos are right. Zeos tested the Emotiva and it was great because of the specs, you tested other amps (Beyer's pick included) and showed us that there are other great options too. Thanks for the video though! Highly appreciated. Btw, Zeos is kind of a meme, and he KNOWS it, I mean, his type of speaking is part of it. Don't be angry on him, I mean his reviews were never professional spec related, with lots of tests and graphs. People watch Zeos because he gives honest feedback (even if you think he doesn't, the proof is the high amount of subs and patrons). He is always that funny guy that's entertaining to watch even if you don't understand the physical ideas behind how an amp works.

Great info/tests. It isn’t true that a portable amp can’t drive these. The Hip dac2 has a power boost switch and a non muddy bass boost switch. When these are engaged I can’t imagine how the 880 600 ohms could sound better. The rechargeable Hip dac2 is a wonderful product.

The Emotiva A-100 IS available on their website. It was out of stock for awhile, but I just bought one a few weeks ago. It's a great amp for whatever you want to do with it.

It's obviou you did your due diligence in this review, thank you! On a side note, any chance we can get a full ZMF Auteur review soon? Placing my order soon, and I would appreciate your impressions. Thanks!

Hi there. My personal findings: I tried the 250 and the 600 ohms on my PC Motherboard. The 600 was clearly better for my taste. This is what the MB said: „SupremeFX-S1220-Codec, einen ESS® Saber Hi-Fi ES9023P Digital-Analog-Wandler für eine hervorragende Wiedergabe am Frontpanel sowie einen Texas Instruments® RC4580 OP-Verstärker mit hoher Verstärkungsleistung“ As I tried to get the best out of the 880/600 i bought the Fiio K7 DAC/AMP. The loudness is a tiny bit higher. Sound quality is nearly identical. Somehow i like the MB DAC little more. It is more crisp. So I used the MB DAC with optical cable and the K7 only as an AMP. Same result. Sounds great. So I am wondering if i had just bought some AMP. The K7 I calculated is at 75mW at 600 Ohms. You saying is, it won’t work better on an more powerful amp, which can deliver the rated 100mW? So I can stick with the K7 and be happy?

No Theme Reviews, like and appreciate your reviews. Agree with you that 880 600 ohm does not need crazy power. If you get a chance to test it with Marantz Pro PHA3, I will be very interested in your view. This amp is almost identical (form and specs) with one that you recommended but at a fraction of the price.

Why do you think the sound changes so much depending on output impedance? The DT880 600 Ω is measured on diyaudioheaven and displays no tonality changes between a 0.2 Ω output impedance amplifier and and a 120 Ω one.

Not going to repeat what everyone else said as you seem to have reconciled the point. But I will repeat that this was an excellent piece. Thank you for taking the time to collate this information into a video and using your position (that is having multiple amps at the same time) to provide this test. You're right, impedance is not usually mentioned in the new generation, you occasionally hear about it when "system synergy" gets brought up or as an afterthought as to why planars don't play well with (OTL) tubes.

I can easily drive them with XDuuo XD05 basic!! Absolutely no problem with the sound. Even D90/A90 can power them just fine with fantastic sound quality.

Firstly Zeos is going to love this🙈 apart from that I’m loving your review as I recently purchased a brand new unused pair of the original DT880 600ohm (with the Horns) and found my FX DAC X6 which I also have the FX Tube 03 linked to Drives them no problem. My THXAAA789 also running through the FX DAC and Tube 03 Buffer is Superb and again drives them effortlessly.So yes your right they do not need Nuclear power to drive them,I must note that I did Burn the DT880’s in for 2 Solid Days being New and noticed a huge sound difference from straight out of the Box👍🎧 Keep up the Good reviews as your thorough and always on the Mark.Well Done Sir.👏👏👏👏

Can I just check, are these definitely the 600ohm version? Because looking on the web and stuff, the special edition black version looks to only come in 250ohms, unless you get the ‘manufaktur’ customisable ones and choose all the options in black.

Great review with explaining everything. I just bought A20 as I own some 600ohm Beyers headphones. I would like to suggest something, you did great job with comparing AMPs, is it possible to do the same with other headphones? I really would like to know how AMPs compare between each other when you use 150-300 ohm headphones, or maybe even something that is 32 or 50 ohms.

mine are off for a mini-xlr mod so i can't test it on the specific amp that was in the review of the one-who's-name-you-won't-mention :) but, no, what was called a nuclear powerplant of an amp really isn't that, even the unmentioned one corrected himself afterwards, stating the output at 600ohms is about 0.6W/ch, not the 50 which are @4ohm (with jumpers applied) edit:sorry, my mistake...it's 50W@8Ohm, not 4

black edition...they do not measure the same...sub bass and bass are melding in the middle because the black edition has a MASSIVE bass boost...you're just bass boosting even harder with higher output impedance....

I wish Zeos would actually talk about this stuff. He’s a huge problem. He won’t review stuff, won’t do real comparisons, goes off on tangents for minutes, and constantly sells. Every video title says we need to buy. I hate his excuse on the 880 video. He said he isn’t a shill and that gear is just good now. I don’t think that’s an excuse to not review and compare and it definitely doesn’t excuse him not talking about a product’s faults. I don’t get why other reviewers are scared of him and talk so highly of him. DMS is much more knowledgeable than Zeos but even he acts like Zeos is god. Everybody just scrambles to stroke his ego so he will send them stuff to review. The whole thing is just so gross.

Huh. As a baby audio hobbyist and holder of an electrical engineering degree, this makes perfect sense. Impedance matching allows more power to be delivered to the load. It turns out tube amps often increase power delivery at higher loads, rather than the other way around. For instance, the Schiit Valhalla 2 (a tube amp) gives 180mW at 50ohms, but gives 450mW at 600ohms, while the Lyr 3 (not a tube amp) at 50ohms give 4000mW (I hate saying thousands of mW, but I don't want this to be misread) and at 600ohm only gives 450mW.

Also, the stunningly beautiful model of DT 880 you review in this video appear to *only* come in a 250 ohm on Amazon; Could you please let us know where you found *that* edition in 600 ohm? Thanks so much!

So i plugged in my elekit tu882 tube amp. Im at 9 oclock for a nice listening volume . bass, detail and dynamics are all there. Definitely great on tubes. When connected to my speaker amp i sometimes need to go from -15 to +5 db which is huge.

Emotiva BasX can put out about 20V of voltage. If its output impedance is 220 Ohm, then the total load is 820 Ohm and the output current will be about 24 mA. 24 mA into 600 Ohm equals ~350 mW. In short, it's very powerful but not that much more powerful than some headphone amps than can push 100-150 mW into 600 Ohm.

Nice review! Hope you can help me with my setup (referring to 600 ohm version) I can only max my budget to Vali 2. Will sound better the Magni or the Vali 2 based on the fact that it has higher output impedance (6 ohms) and tube amps tend to work better with high impedance headphones? Thanks.

Beyerdynamic know how to make a comfortable headphone. Large genuine circumaural cups, good padding and clamping force which isn't skull crushing. They tend to be pretty solid and durable too despite the rather homespun styling.

The dac he used can have variable output voltage, he used it so it may be confusing unless you knew that. And I can recc powerful speaker amps for some use cases due to how they handle negative feedback to dampen lower frequencies. It prob sounded best to Zeos on that amp due to the 220ohm output impedance as well so as long as you don't overdrive them it's fine. Thanks for this video! I'm curious if 300ohm would be too much for the 880. Will have to find out lol

I am using the headphone amp of my Pioneer a 30 k speaker amp to drive my dt 880's. I messured the output impedance to be about 380 ohm's. I mostly listen at a quarter volume, when I turn the volume to one half my ears start to hurt. Seems to be the perfect amp for this headphone :)

Special edition of DT 880 600 ohm is worse. First of all the grills are plastic while on regular they are metal. Secondly the black pads create more closed sound while silver pads create more open sound.

I had DT880 600 Ohm and they sound very good powered by modest FiiO K5 amp. I sold those headphones after hearing 250 Ohm version that was far better on my amp. Further more if you have old stereo amp (tested on TEAC A-X35 MkII ) then you would be surprised how good 600 Ohm headphones will sound on such an amp. Why ? because those amps were designed when most headphones were 600 Ohm and that's why typically nowadays people say those old amps have rubbish headphone out with audible noise. Noise floor go away when you connect 600 Ohm headphones.

The Cayin iHA-6 has 200mW/ch at 600 ohms in low current mode and 90mW/ch at 600 ohms in high current mode (both single ended). Source: post #387 in the iHA-6 thread on Head-fi has a chart of the iHA-6's power output in its various modes at various impedance loads. I've been using the 600 ohm 880's with a Violectric V280 (which, if the V200's SE output is indicative of the V280's SE output, it should be around 570mW, and an output impedance of less than 1 ohm). While I don't have a cacophony of amps to test it with as you did (except for a Scarlett Solo, which predictably has a difficult time), but I'm definitely getting that rolled-low end sound you described; lots of slam, and not a whole lot of deficiencies elsewhere in the sound, but definitely a recessed sub-bass. While overall I do think the pairing does sound good, I'm curious to try it with something with a higher output impedance. As for what you said about Zeos, I would say you're having a mild overreaction (unless that was just a way to boost engagement, in which case, you're doing a great job!), and I would ascribe this to more of an "Occam's razor" situation. I think he just legitimately didn't even consider that output impedance could be at play, he just noticed that big strong amp power headphon well, and smol tiny 789 couldn't.

You don't need lots of Watts. You need lots of clean current. The Rupert Neve RNHP will definitely drive the dt 880 600ohm. Maybe not enough gain, but this also depends on the source signal (4 volt or 2 volt). My vintage stereo receiver is only 40 Watt. But it delivers enough current to drive inefficient speakers. My Dragonfly Black should drive every IEM. But multi balanced armature IEM will sound very thin on the Dragonfly Black. Even when set very loud. A proper yet small amplifier will drive IEM much better at lower volumes.

Great comparison between the different amps. Would the DT 880 (600 ohm) headphones work well with the Fiio K3 portable DAC/Amp, or the Fiio K5 desktop Amp? According to reviews online, it said that the Fiio K5 can only run headphones that are up to 300 ohms. Is this true?

As a huge fan of Zeos, I love this video and I honestly thank you for making it! Edit* Thank you for answering all these people and by extension my own question!

I appreciate your efforts in teaching people how to use at best their DT880. I am relatively new to this hobby. Despite some criticism I praise everyone who tries to bring something to the table and you are one of them, both if you are right or wrong. I am one of those people who have a certain ignorance on the topic and every content that can teach me something has a great value for me. For example, I never heard talking about damping factor and output impedance before. After this premise, since I have read that you own a Sound Blasterx G6, I would like to know if it can drive properly a DT880 quality wise. In particular, can it drive the 600 ohm version volume wise and quality wise? I have already the 250 ohm version that I drive with the G6 and for me, at 50/60% windows volume on high gain, is already very loud. I never go beyond that. Since I am still in the return period, I was wondering to if it was worth return the 250 ohm and buy the 600 ohm instead since it is considered better than the 250 ohm version. Thank you for your attention.

e50/l50 stack from topping powers the 880 600ohm just fine. on high gain a comfortable listening level with full dynamics is had just over 930am / if you try to push it to noon on the dial you'll be deaf before you get to the end of the song. no distortion as far as i can raise the volume. and at 600ohm this little amp can't be putting out more than a couple hundred mw.

I already own a darkvoice and am interested in this headphone, do you reccomend it? I saw one of your replys to another comment saying something similar and you said the bass is muddy. Is it really bad or does it maintain a decent level of detail? Thanks for the review! This confirmed my suspictions on zeos' review. I enjoy his content but its obvious that beyer would make this headphone with an intent for it not to require speaker amp amounts of power Edit: I now own both and I did not like the dt880 on the darkvoice and I sold it.

What would you recommend the between Dt 880 and Hd58x, Im looking for a wide soundstage and detail, but the dt 880 seems like a hassle pairing an amp with. I have a Lyr 3 and a Topping A50s. Also your reviews are great!

Power is Def needed compared to my other headphones but I think the type of amp is more important. Having a good clean class a amp does wonders for it. Maybe even something tilted a bit warm for my taste anyway

Sounds about right, I think. I don't understand why others can't just look at the headphone specs and email beyer about this. I did and was told their 600ohm headphones need more output impedance.

So I am assuming the A2 from The headphone company was more accurate?

I don't know man. Output impedance is like eq in your situation which is not desired. Generally higher the damping is the better. You may like the coloration with the high output impedance amps thats different. DT 880 600ohm 96 db sensitivity it requires high voltage swing and power and low healthy output impedance.

So, if I don't have enough budget to get the A20 and I only have for Heresy or Vali 2 or something else, will the 250 ohm version fit better and have better sound signature than if I get the 600 ohm ones with the Heresy? Thanks. PD: Nice video, helped a lot

Yeah you need amp with high output impedance with 600 ohm Beyers. Thats why many like them with tube amps, cause tube amps typically have very high output impedance and also perform very well with high impedance headphones. Feliks-audio echo mk2 would be a great pairing with any 600 ohm Beyerdynamic.

@nomorereviews the fiio k5 pro has 1.5w and output impedance of 2 ohm what do you think? It easily drives my 250 ohm 990s but i wanted to get these

I just find the 880 to niche seems like one to get for cheap once u have alot of gear to play with glad you made it simpler for people. Also if you see this how do you feel about idac 6?

Woow.. Thx for the review! You just made up my mind on which amp to buy.. been hassling about which one to choose for months now.. Nice collection of amps you got.. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Hello @No theme Reviews , first I have to congratulate you for this amazing video and explanation....second I need your advice: I just bought the DT 990 600 ohms, My home amplifier is an yamaha a-s501, on the specifications it says outuput Impedance on the headphone jack: 430 mV/470 ohms, is this enough or too high to be paired to the 990's? As an alternative I tought about the Fiio K5 PRO, but don't know if it's good or bad to be paired with the 990's. What do you think? Any recomendation beside's these? Thank you for any help!

thank you for the review, i think i needed this years ago before i bought my dt8080 edition 600R. I love them but the only device i can really use them is my RME Babyface Pro. Its moderate loud but the output impedance is 10 Ohm. And actually it sound clear but I think i got some issues with the bass. cant really tell. I shoot today the Bayerdynamic A20 on ebay for 250.. I will give my opinion how it performs all together RME->A20=>DT880 and RME vs A20.

Great video and education. On full scale speakers, damping factor and impedance has the same influence on low efficiency speakers. This is well known and understood in hifi world. I figured mid way on your video a 600ohm headphone is comparable to a low efficiency speaker. Keep up good work.

I don't wanna say you were wrong but they do benefit ALOT if you have some power to feed them. An L30 would drive them just fine (if you get a non defective copy) but something with a lot of power like a modded basx a100 or a flux fa10 can really get the most out of them

It seems like you made this video out of being triggered by Zeos, which I hate. Your points are really good though, but you should have kept it that way and made it just as a science video. But yours "one certain reviewer" sounds really disrespectful. Don't forget Zeos makes those videos to entertain people and he never said that you can't drive them. Just noticed, good job on turning off likes/dislikes to avoid some of the critique.

@No Theme Reviews : Man , you got all the amps under the sun. Would be interesting to see you do a amp shoot out or reviews of some of the amps you have like schitt lyr 3- which doesnt have many reviews online.

The BasX A-100 only has 50W at 8ohms. Do you know of any 8 ohm headphones? At 600 ohms it has 600mW. For frame of reference for 600 ohm loads the 789 SE has 100mW, the Atom has 125mW, the SP200 has 220 mW, and the Asgard 3 has 300mW.

Definitely doesn't need a power grid to power them. They sound incredibly detailed on my magni 3+. It's making me wonder why I own a pair of hd58x. It just takes more voltage to power the dt to its Max power input rating of 100 mw.

Really nice reviews. Keep up the good work!

On a separate note, I wonder if it would be feasible for you to create a list of your recommended products (with a small blurb about the specifics of each unit) for us to reference? This could be updated as you hear new units, and separated into categories like "amps, dacs, amp-dacs" and "under $200, under $500, under $1000, above $1000" as needed?

Thanks you for the video. Very thorough. Have had DT880's for 1.5 years. Do you game at all? I am looking for a gaming amp (usb audio input,with mic jack) with a small desktop profile. I currently use a Creative Soundblaster X7 which eats up the 600ohm no probs. It's mains powered and very good with music to boot. It is bulky though. Creative and other companies have smaller products but I am unconvinced as they run on usb for power. Do you think any desktop amp that sources it's power from usb could ever sufficiently power DT880's? Cheers Bob

I have been pushing 600ohms into a set of Audio technica ath m50x for years and no issues and these are not 600 ohm headphones.

What do you guys think about dt 880 600 ohm with an tube amp like DarkVoice wich is know for a higher output impedance ?

Yes! I had a strong suspicion Zeos was wrong again. For a guy who has as many amps as he does, he doesn’t compare them. He showed a closet full of amps and boasted companies don’t ask for the stuff back. So why can’t he do comparisons and do real REVIEWS?

it's Not interesting at all it's a FACT that for high impedance headphones you need Amps with high impedance output

The only DT 880 black edition I found is the 250 ohms, even on the Beyerdynamic website, at least in Europe...

Top notch review 👌🏻

The difference between the SE and reg versions is in the pads. The gray pads are a bit softer and have a slightly warmer sound. The rest of the headphone is the same so if you have the black SE version you would just need to swap for the gray pads.

I thought the black edition only came in 250Ω

I have a lot of older Home Theater Amps. I can't find specs but the manual says "PHONES: Accepts low- and high- impedance headphones". It is a Sony STR-SE501. I also have a Parasound R/HD-300II from 1988. A Sony STR-DE915 and a Yamaha RX-V620. Not being a minimalist doesn't bother me, but I don't know how well amps like this work with Head Phones versus headphone amps. Would anyone here recommend the 600ohm?

@No theme reviews - Interesting findings. My personal experience, at least with the dt990 and T1 600 ohms, is that they are not as hard to drive as you'd expect. Both of them are driven well off my Fiio M15 in se mode. I don't experience the issues with bass on these headphones with this setup as you have had with the 880 on your amps. I don't know the output impedance of the m15, but all iems (so far, including the Andromeda) sound as they should on it, so I doubt it would be very high. I don't doubt your theory, but I'd like to hear from others on their findings. FWIW, maybe Zeos (I'm assuming he was the individual you referred to) was referring to the sound quality of the 880 600ohm and not specifically the volume levels.

Great video, finally someone making sense. I have a few questions: 1. Would 300ohm headphones sound better on 100ohm or 0ohm output resistance? 2. Do you have any AMP recommendations for such headphones? 3. What about DAC?

THANKS! THE BEST!

Big like for this. And big respect for your videos. But Tyll Hertsens in his blog did not say things in favor of your findings. He basically said the higher damping the better (DT 880 600ohm included). U said the damping factor should be in the specific range. So where is the truth?

Fyi Z was referencing variable output for the dac.

I like your reviews and your critical approach but I don't understand why you aimed to pick a quarrel with Z in this one. I am not a fan either but you did not need to change your voice and refer to him as the running theme of the entire video. It is kind of annoying actually.

For those who are seeing contradictory comments below regarding damping factor and output impedance: the rule of 1/8th for damping factor is not set in stone. It is a general rule that tends to work with most headphones. But not with all. Beyerdynamic's A2 manual (page 16) talks about the amp's selectable output impedance. Beyerdynamic recommends using 100 ohms output impedance for high impedance headphones. Others will say you need to have the lowest output impedance as possible. But exceptions to rules exist for a reason: because sometimes things are different. Furthermore, 2 people have provided links for the same blog entry that ostensibly measured the DT 880 Special Edition. These posters think the blog clearly shows that the Special Edition has different sound signature because of this blog. I am not familiar with the blogger or his other work. Furthermore, the linked measurement is for the 250 ohm DT 880, NOT the 600 ohm DT 880. I have no documentation from any source that the 600 ohm version is tuned differently from the standard headphones.

I also hate the metal plate on the grey ones....but i can't find any 600ohm black dt880 new...the used one are ridiculously high in price....

You used the DT 880 Premium 250 Ohm version, so You didn't test the DT 880 Edition 600 Ohm that Zeos had !🤗!

Great video with solids points. Do get upset with people saying youre just hating on Zeo. You just want to help people so whats wrong with that? Imagine going to watch a video where you immediately want to defend someone who led you into so many great products. Right off the bat you would have a different mindset than if having a neutral perspective. Thats where alot of these people are coming from

The obvious solution is buy the 32 ohm version it's cheaper.

@No Theme Reviews. Here is Emotiva’s webpage for the specs on the A-100 amp. emotiva.com/products/a-100 It says at 600 Ohms in “Normal Mode” it has a power output of 350mW/channel and in “direct drive mode” it has a power output of 0.6W/channel. The manual states that this mode is meant for low efficiency planars. I think Zeos touts this amp more because of the “bang for your buck” value as this amp is only $229 and also operates as a speaker amp in addition to a headphone amp. This is the real target market for this amp. Since you seem to own a lot of good equipment, you should buy one of of these and give it a try. I don’t have other amps to compare this one too, but it does sound pretty great and would be a great addition.

hey man big fan from Venezuela, been lurking everywhere if my Little dot 1+ amp can handle the 600ohms version of this headphone, i love this little amp but while the product description doesnt say it powers 150mw @ 300ohms so it will be around 60-75mw.. the amp its an hybrid one

Apollo twin mk ii and x output 85mw at 600 OHM, BD recommended max of 100ma. So this is a match made in heaven? yet so many reviewers suggest getting a separate amp. Does this make sense?